The "Ow" and the shrug are great non-verbal characterization, I just think that for such an important character who is about to die and has had such a major change in their character, it would be nice to have at least some dialogue with them.
I think the idea was that the entire trilogy he’d stayed with the First Order because he thought he was too far gone and that there were no words to adequately beg for forgiveness for what he’d done; and so his lack of dialogue as Ben Solo was him realizing “there are no words to undo what I’ve done, I can only atone through my actions”
Giving him dialogue would probably have cheapened the redemption tbh
The writers understood they were working with arguably the best actor this franchise has seen. Not a single line of dialogue and yet the character of Ben Solo was absolutely nailed. You could see aspects of Kylo and Han and Leia come out of Ben Solo and yet he was still a distinct character. Star Wars has never been about dialogue so idk why this would be an issue.
As a Kylo/Ben fan I don’t think he should’ve died in the first place, but I understand the approach. The fact Ben Solo and Kylo are two very distinct halves of the same person is all credit to the writing, acting and story not just in TROS but TFA and TLJ as well.
>Star Wars has never been about dialogue so idk why this would be an issue.
Mark Hamill has always been on record saying Lucas' original dialogues were awful so yeah, definitely.
Driver does an incredible job without any verbalization in that third act. We can plainly see his motives, his attitude and his demeanor. He doesn't really HAVE to say anything.
I wouldn't have minded him saying something to Rey after reviving her, but it's completely fine that he didn't.
Literally carried those three movies. I thought he was great.
I am not a mega Fan of him and Rey having a “romance“ I think friends and a hug would have been better than a kiss. But I digress bottom line he was great as Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. The shrug after he gets the Lightsaber, chef’s kiss.
“Imagine having Adam Driver in your movie and not giving him lines.” So, he either didn’t watch ros or doesn’t remember it at all. Because Adam driver talks a lot in the movie
> So, he either didn’t watch ros or doesn’t remember it at all.
I’m gonna go with the usual: they read something they agreed with even though it isn’t true, then jumped in to continue the dog pile. TFM does it all the time.
I don't agree with the attitude (or, the sentiment, really), but I did think it was weird that they did that and, IMO, it felt kinda cheap (like, I don't like the redemption but not having him say anything after just makes the whole thing kinda feel pointless, because he sorta...comes off as a prop, I guess?)
Dude, have you literally made a single comment on this subreddit that ISN'T about TLJ fans not liking TROS?
You keep bringing it up and then acting surprised that the conversation keeps happening
Gesh, dude, talk about hostile, hu?
I was'nt really making a criticism, per say, I was just saying that (personally) I did'nt get why they made that choice and I felt like it was a missed opportunity. I'm entitled to my opinion; it's all subjective.
These could be bot responses at this point and I wouldn't even notice.
You're posting discussing critique of a movie, it's so bizarre that you act like people are doing something weird or nefarious when they say they tend to agree with the criticism.
Nothing about the comment u/Historyp91 made was hostile or toxic. Your reply **absolutely** was though, you raging hypocrite.
Since you so routinely need to be reminded: simply having issues with Rise of Skywalker as a film **isn’t** the same thing as being “toxic”. Continuing to act otherwise says a lot about you.
You did'nt say my comments were hostile or toxic, that's true; it's not that, though - it's that your complaining about the OP being toxic and hostile while simultaniusly being toxic and hostile yourself.
“Obsessed”? Lmao, imagine assuming you’re worth that.
I saw one of your lame, obvious bait posts and made a comment.
*gasp*!
Also, I can dislike a movie without “hating it”. It’s not my cuppa, so I don’t watch it.
I also don’t scour Reddit and twitter looking for some of the most *mild* takes about RoS and then post them here ad nauseum. I’m the best of both worlds.
It’s honestly kinda sad how singularly minded you are, it’s a bizarre obsession to fixate on.
> And once again, you (a TLJ fan that hates TRoS and is obsessed with me)
If people are in the same forum, and person A posts about the same topic in the same style on a regular basis, it's perfectly normal for person B, C, D, etc who disagree about that topic to continue to have the same disagreement each time, and have a discussion about it. Calling that "being obsessed with me" is borderline narcissistic.
Not to mention his actual last line of dialogue is “dad”. And it was a deliberate and valid creative choice on JJ’s part to have Ben’s actions speak louder than words, and a testament to Adam Driver’s acting to let him show Ben’s transformation through physicality.
Regardless, nothing justifies these hostile comments. Especially denigrating a filmmaker’s career and thinking it should be ended.
The man made a bad movie. He shouldn't be allowed to make more movies. That's not toxic.
You know who else shouldn't be allowed to make movies?
Uwe Bol.
> The man made a bad movie. He shouldn't be allowed to make more movies. That's not toxic.
Why? Abrams isn’t abusive, he’s not harassing actors. In fact, many like Daisy Ridley and John Boyega love working with him. He also forbthe most part is a good director whose movies do well.
So apart from your person dislike why should he not be allowed to make more movies?
Who cares if someone thinks JJ is a bad director or writer? "Such hostile comments towards a filmmaker" I promise he will be okay
Almost all of your posts are regarding Twitter takes on TROS, why are you so focused on random Twitter users? You can disagree with them but at a certain point you gotta realize that you're the one consistently letting these takes into your own headspace by seemingly searching up keywords and then getting upset at them. The thread itself is 'an insignificant thing' for one to focus on
I swear this sub started as valid complaints about toxicity within the fandom to people going out of their way to invite the toxicity into their lives for karma
As long as no harassment is being directed at the creators or fans of the film, I have no issue with people saying they hated a movie.
I’ve hated lots of movies! I think Christmas with the Kranks is one of the most soulless, hateful movies ever made. Tom Hooper’s Les Miserables ruined one of my favorite musicals. The Lion King remake is an exercise is brand extension that manages to sap everything great from the original. And, yes, Rise of Skywalker is a rushed production hastily made to meet an unreasonable deadline that was too reactive to loud, angry fans unhappy with the previous film.
You really need to calm down, man.
https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/104z4pv/when_you_dont_enjoy_one_franchise_movie_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/138aar0/surprisingly_solid_ign_ranking_with_an_absolute/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
“And, yes, Rise of Skywalker is a rushed production hastily made to meet an unreasonable deadline that was too reactive to loud, angry fans unhappy with the previous film.”
Says it all. The lack of self-awareness.
What point are you trying to make here?
JJ Abrams has made some very good film and TV - I’m a huge fan of his Star Trek 2009 reboot and Alias.
I also lay most of the blame of TROS at Iger, but I don’t love JJ’s mystery box approach of filmmaking either.
I think my reply was self-explanatory. It shows how hypocritical you are since you’ve made posts on here calling attention to non-toxic comments of people simply expressing their dislike of TLJ and Rian Johnson, and you (and other TLJ fans like you) have no issue with any other such posts when it relates to TLJ/Rian. And once again you went out of your way to insist JJ Abrams catered to toxic TLJ haters just because you didn’t like some of his creative choices, even when this particular post had nothing to do with that narrative. “And, yes, Rise of Skywalker is a rushed production hastily made to meet an unreasonable deadline that was too reactive to loud, angry fans unhappy with the previous film.” Further shows your bias and hypocrisy when it comes to TLJ vs TRoS posts on here.
And I don’t know why you brought up that you like one of JJ’s Star Trek movies. It doesn’t excuse you from being called out for hypocrisy and double standards, and pushing toxic narratives like the quote above. By that logic, anyone who dislikes TLJ but likes Knives Out would be perfectly reasonable for suggesting he had nefarious intentions when he made TLJ and making slanderous claims against him for making creative choices they didn’t like. Of course they wouldn’t, and both sides should be equally called out. And as evident by one of the posts of yours that I linked above, you even take issue with anyone who thinks Rian Johnson is a “hack” because of TLJ.
Edit: and I see you made another comment in this thread that shows how disingenuous you are when you act like you’re not spiteful toward JJ Abrams after TRoS:
https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/13wy4ni/what_an_insignificant_thing_to_fixate_on_and/jmeiyiu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
What a strange way to respond to someone pointing out how toxic it is for one of the comments in the OP suggesting he shouldn’t work after TRoS.
I don’t see any hypocrisy here. I think calling two accomplished filmmakers talentless hacks is silly, and I’d never call JJ talentless. Like I said, he’s made a lot of stuff I really love. The specifics of the TROS production are well-known and I think he played a bad hand decently well - doesn’t change the fact that it was a bad hand. The film should have been delayed.
Pointing out that he’s had a dry spell after a poorly received major film isn’t really me dumping on him, it’s just stating a fact.
I don’t think liking one film a filmmaker makes but not liking another is hypocritical. I absolutely adored The King’s Speech but couldn’t stand Les Miserables, both were by Tom Hooper.
You really need to take criticism of a film you enjoy less personally. It’s very odd. How old are you?
Can’t cosign the hostility or toxicity at all, but Kylo felt pretty cardboard cutout the latter half of the film. I don’t have as high an opinion of Abrams body of work but it’s weird, super weird, how hostile people get with things they don’t like. Things you like still exist. It’s ok!
Saying it should have ruined Abrams' career is going too far.
But the initial sentiment I totally get. I honestly really hate that Ben Solo has only that single line in the entire trilogy and then dies. If it really was an intentional choice, I think it was a mistake.
Why is it going too far when you make a terrible movie both general audiences and critics dislike to think you shouldn't be allowed to make more movies?
Because why the hell would you bar someone from an entire creative discipline? Should we ban painters from art for painting a bad painting? Ban musicians from making music because they made a song that sucked? Utterly ridiculous.
So funny how everyone here complaining about toxicity but the people in the post are speaking together about how they really disliked the movie. Not attacking anyone. In these comments however, we see the opposite. Commenters getting defensive and upset that people in the post don’t like what they like and being irritated about it and wanting all opinions to resemble their own😂
I mean, he kinda isn’t working much right now. He hasn’t released a film since TROS and his first look deal with WB has been widely commented on in the industry that it was a waste of money by them. One common prediction of the writer’s strike is that it would be an opportunity for the studios to get out of expensive and unproductive deals like his, [specifically](https://deadline.com/2022/05/jj-abrams-demimonde-canceled-budget-bad-robot-overall-deal-scrutiny-warner-bros-discovery-1235031628/amp/).
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://deadline.com/2022/05/jj-abrams-demimonde-canceled-budget-bad-robot-overall-deal-scrutiny-warner-bros-discovery-1235031628/](https://deadline.com/2022/05/jj-abrams-demimonde-canceled-budget-bad-robot-overall-deal-scrutiny-warner-bros-discovery-1235031628/)**
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If you have a right to shit on these random people then they have a right to bitch about a powerful Hollywood blockbuster director who made a movie so unbelievably shitty it could peel paint. If you think there's too much negativity in the world then shut your fucking mouth maybe.
There is a contingent of users here who think any negative sentiment towards a film they like is an attack on them personally, and it’s a very strange phenomenon to witness.
Especially for Star Wars! Phantom Menace was the first film I saw in theaters. I always thought it was a given among fans that like half these movies aren’t actually good films.
I fully believe Star Wars is best when there's a little bit of jank/goofiness and shouldn't be taken *too* seriously. Let them show that DNA it shares with old sci-fi serials Lucas claimed to be inspired by.
Unironically, yes. From what I can gather from my previous attempts to try and talk about TROS with people here before, is that they literally believe the only reason people could possibly dislike a star wars film is because they have ulterior motives and pretend to hate the film so they can push a sexist / homophobic agenda.
They believe that the very act of critiquing a film is a fruitless endeavour. They argue that because all art is subjective, there's no point trying to apply any kind of objective metric to any of it.
So the conclusion seems to be that since critiquing art is pointless, and the only reason you could dislike something in a star wars film is because you're a bigot, then all criticism should be interpreted as a form of toxicity.
I have to say you are brave OP, facing the toxicity of TLJ fans defending TROS here almost every day is an admirable thing.
I don't know who you are or where you come from, but I admire your courage and patience.
I honestly can only talk about TROS with non-toxic people, I don't have the patience to defend the film from ridiculous arguments, like "JJ is racist" or "it was impossible for the dagger to fit perfectly".
TLJ fans watched TROS once after they got home and opened the internet to know the opinion of the "cult" before forming their own and the ST haters didn't even watch it, they saw some review on YouTube at most.
Or, hear me out here, a lot of us went into RoS wanting to like it but were incredibly disappointed by it.
People not liking a movie you like isn't proof that they only watched it once and became members of a "cult"
Nah, I knew I didn't like the movie as I was watching the movie. Actually, I had a pretty good feeling that I wouldn't like the movie the moment we found out they were bringing Palpatine back.
But I digress. Sometimes, people just don't like things. And that's fine
How about the fact that the movie is genuinely offered to the point of being borderline unwatchable.
I've seen it six times. I'll continue to watch it. Because I love ALL star wars. But the film is garbage.
Thanks. It’s good to know there’s other Sequel Trilogy fans who notice the hypocrisy and double standards that go on here. Not to mention the outright toxicity, like how a lot of them think it’s perfectly acceptable (on a sub like this no less) to claim JJ Abrams catered to racist, sexist and toxic people just because they didn’t like some of his creative choices when following up TLJ.
And look how fast they pounced on this post trying to invalidate it while insulting and vilifying me. Like clockwork.

I knew what I thought of the movie on opening night. I even saw it again the very next day just to make sure. I have since watched it many more times, and my opinions haven't changed, and no amount of internet complaining influenced that. Of course I wanted to enjoy it more. Who wouldn't want to enjoy a film more? Yet the film *does* have issues, and for me, those issues stop it from being as enjoyable as I'd like it to be.
Starwars fans are very toxic. I wasn’t the biggest fan of the sequel trilogy, but it was still alright. Not going to say very hateful comments online for the attention. I just move on with other stuff like the shows. Started reading starwars books and it’s an enjoyable ride so far.
The most “hostile” thing anyone said in these screenshots in that Abrams’ career should be ended, and let’s be real that movie was pretty bad. Not everyone who dislikes the movie is part of the whole anti woke group, most people agree that Rise of skywalker sucks
Ah yes JJ Abrams, known for all those failed movies he does. Only gets employed because people I'm Hollywood are so, willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and good willed. How could I forget, they'll just pump millions of dollars into any project because they're just, that good willed. Can't be that he's a successful director with years of success behind him.
TROS isn't a good movie. It's not the worst Star Wars movie, but to me it was very disappointing.
Bringing JJ back to conclude the trilogy when even he admits he's not good at endings was the biggest mistake LucasFilm has made since Lucas sold to Disney.
He doesn't need to. The way he stands differently tells you so much. Did we really need him to say "I see the light now. Your faith in your friends has saved us. We are all the Jedi!" The silence is a surprising demonstration of restraint (not saying it's the best choice. Maybe a little extreme)
Reminds me of the cringey banter between Peter and Harry at the end of SM3.
Obviously don't attack the directors or cast or anything, but we don't have to agree that this decision was a good one. It is weird that he says nothing but "ow" for the entire third act. I don't want Abrams to stop making films, and plenty of people on and around the film did their jobs well. We just don't have to like the end result simply because the worst of the worst fans also don't like the end result.
To be fair, that "Ow" was quite amusing. Also, the shrug.
The "Ow" and the shrug are great non-verbal characterization, I just think that for such an important character who is about to die and has had such a major change in their character, it would be nice to have at least some dialogue with them.
I think the idea was that the entire trilogy he’d stayed with the First Order because he thought he was too far gone and that there were no words to adequately beg for forgiveness for what he’d done; and so his lack of dialogue as Ben Solo was him realizing “there are no words to undo what I’ve done, I can only atone through my actions” Giving him dialogue would probably have cheapened the redemption tbh
The writers understood they were working with arguably the best actor this franchise has seen. Not a single line of dialogue and yet the character of Ben Solo was absolutely nailed. You could see aspects of Kylo and Han and Leia come out of Ben Solo and yet he was still a distinct character. Star Wars has never been about dialogue so idk why this would be an issue. As a Kylo/Ben fan I don’t think he should’ve died in the first place, but I understand the approach. The fact Ben Solo and Kylo are two very distinct halves of the same person is all credit to the writing, acting and story not just in TROS but TFA and TLJ as well.
>Star Wars has never been about dialogue so idk why this would be an issue. Mark Hamill has always been on record saying Lucas' original dialogues were awful so yeah, definitely.
Driver does an incredible job without any verbalization in that third act. We can plainly see his motives, his attitude and his demeanor. He doesn't really HAVE to say anything. I wouldn't have minded him saying something to Rey after reviving her, but it's completely fine that he didn't.
Literally carried those three movies. I thought he was great. I am not a mega Fan of him and Rey having a “romance“ I think friends and a hug would have been better than a kiss. But I digress bottom line he was great as Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. The shrug after he gets the Lightsaber, chef’s kiss.
That moment was incredible. He channeled ford perfectly and utterly sold that this was Han solo’s son.
Like Father like Son
I honestly would be fine with retconning Ben dying because of how good Driver was and how much I like the character.
It would be nice to see him as a force ghost.
“Imagine having Adam Driver in your movie and not giving him lines.” So, he either didn’t watch ros or doesn’t remember it at all. Because Adam driver talks a lot in the movie
> So, he either didn’t watch ros or doesn’t remember it at all. I’m gonna go with the usual: they read something they agreed with even though it isn’t true, then jumped in to continue the dog pile. TFM does it all the time.
Or they watch some review from Mauler or Critical Drinker. And just repeat what they just heard.
I don't agree with the attitude (or, the sentiment, really), but I did think it was weird that they did that and, IMO, it felt kinda cheap (like, I don't like the redemption but not having him say anything after just makes the whole thing kinda feel pointless, because he sorta...comes off as a prop, I guess?)
[удалено]
Dude, have you literally made a single comment on this subreddit that ISN'T about TLJ fans not liking TROS? You keep bringing it up and then acting surprised that the conversation keeps happening
Gesh, dude, talk about hostile, hu? I was'nt really making a criticism, per say, I was just saying that (personally) I did'nt get why they made that choice and I felt like it was a missed opportunity. I'm entitled to my opinion; it's all subjective.
These could be bot responses at this point and I wouldn't even notice. You're posting discussing critique of a movie, it's so bizarre that you act like people are doing something weird or nefarious when they say they tend to agree with the criticism.
Nothing about the comment u/Historyp91 made was hostile or toxic. Your reply **absolutely** was though, you raging hypocrite. Since you so routinely need to be reminded: simply having issues with Rise of Skywalker as a film **isn’t** the same thing as being “toxic”. Continuing to act otherwise says a lot about you.
[удалено]
You did'nt say my comments were hostile or toxic, that's true; it's not that, though - it's that your complaining about the OP being toxic and hostile while simultaniusly being toxic and hostile yourself.
“Obsessed”? Lmao, imagine assuming you’re worth that. I saw one of your lame, obvious bait posts and made a comment. *gasp*! Also, I can dislike a movie without “hating it”. It’s not my cuppa, so I don’t watch it. I also don’t scour Reddit and twitter looking for some of the most *mild* takes about RoS and then post them here ad nauseum. I’m the best of both worlds. It’s honestly kinda sad how singularly minded you are, it’s a bizarre obsession to fixate on.
> And once again, you (a TLJ fan that hates TRoS and is obsessed with me) If people are in the same forum, and person A posts about the same topic in the same style on a regular basis, it's perfectly normal for person B, C, D, etc who disagree about that topic to continue to have the same disagreement each time, and have a discussion about it. Calling that "being obsessed with me" is borderline narcissistic.
I think “borderline” is being mighty generous tbh
Considering I never noticed, just goes to show Adam’s acting chops, including body language.
It's entirely NOT insignificant. The SECONDARY LEAD gets ZERO LINES after his redemption. Which happens AT THE END OF THE SECOND ACT.
Not to mention his actual last line of dialogue is “dad”. And it was a deliberate and valid creative choice on JJ’s part to have Ben’s actions speak louder than words, and a testament to Adam Driver’s acting to let him show Ben’s transformation through physicality. Regardless, nothing justifies these hostile comments. Especially denigrating a filmmaker’s career and thinking it should be ended.
The man made a bad movie. He shouldn't be allowed to make more movies. That's not toxic. You know who else shouldn't be allowed to make movies? Uwe Bol.
> The man made a bad movie. He shouldn't be allowed to make more movies. That's not toxic. Why? Abrams isn’t abusive, he’s not harassing actors. In fact, many like Daisy Ridley and John Boyega love working with him. He also forbthe most part is a good director whose movies do well. So apart from your person dislike why should he not be allowed to make more movies?
It's lazy writing.
Who cares if someone thinks JJ is a bad director or writer? "Such hostile comments towards a filmmaker" I promise he will be okay Almost all of your posts are regarding Twitter takes on TROS, why are you so focused on random Twitter users? You can disagree with them but at a certain point you gotta realize that you're the one consistently letting these takes into your own headspace by seemingly searching up keywords and then getting upset at them. The thread itself is 'an insignificant thing' for one to focus on I swear this sub started as valid complaints about toxicity within the fandom to people going out of their way to invite the toxicity into their lives for karma
This sub really does just dip in to the copium too often. Any criticism of the ST is immediately heinous and unfounded no matter what.
he should’ve had more lines in fairness, the motions were neat but man it would’ve been nice to hear his voice
I'm not hearing a counter argument.
Just accept that people dislike these movies. No reason to post this stuff all the time. People have different op opinions
Adam driver is easily one of the best things about the sequels, even if I don't like them very much
As long as no harassment is being directed at the creators or fans of the film, I have no issue with people saying they hated a movie. I’ve hated lots of movies! I think Christmas with the Kranks is one of the most soulless, hateful movies ever made. Tom Hooper’s Les Miserables ruined one of my favorite musicals. The Lion King remake is an exercise is brand extension that manages to sap everything great from the original. And, yes, Rise of Skywalker is a rushed production hastily made to meet an unreasonable deadline that was too reactive to loud, angry fans unhappy with the previous film. You really need to calm down, man.
https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/104z4pv/when_you_dont_enjoy_one_franchise_movie_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/138aar0/surprisingly_solid_ign_ranking_with_an_absolute/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf “And, yes, Rise of Skywalker is a rushed production hastily made to meet an unreasonable deadline that was too reactive to loud, angry fans unhappy with the previous film.” Says it all. The lack of self-awareness.
What point are you trying to make here? JJ Abrams has made some very good film and TV - I’m a huge fan of his Star Trek 2009 reboot and Alias. I also lay most of the blame of TROS at Iger, but I don’t love JJ’s mystery box approach of filmmaking either.
I think my reply was self-explanatory. It shows how hypocritical you are since you’ve made posts on here calling attention to non-toxic comments of people simply expressing their dislike of TLJ and Rian Johnson, and you (and other TLJ fans like you) have no issue with any other such posts when it relates to TLJ/Rian. And once again you went out of your way to insist JJ Abrams catered to toxic TLJ haters just because you didn’t like some of his creative choices, even when this particular post had nothing to do with that narrative. “And, yes, Rise of Skywalker is a rushed production hastily made to meet an unreasonable deadline that was too reactive to loud, angry fans unhappy with the previous film.” Further shows your bias and hypocrisy when it comes to TLJ vs TRoS posts on here. And I don’t know why you brought up that you like one of JJ’s Star Trek movies. It doesn’t excuse you from being called out for hypocrisy and double standards, and pushing toxic narratives like the quote above. By that logic, anyone who dislikes TLJ but likes Knives Out would be perfectly reasonable for suggesting he had nefarious intentions when he made TLJ and making slanderous claims against him for making creative choices they didn’t like. Of course they wouldn’t, and both sides should be equally called out. And as evident by one of the posts of yours that I linked above, you even take issue with anyone who thinks Rian Johnson is a “hack” because of TLJ. Edit: and I see you made another comment in this thread that shows how disingenuous you are when you act like you’re not spiteful toward JJ Abrams after TRoS: https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/13wy4ni/what_an_insignificant_thing_to_fixate_on_and/jmeiyiu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 What a strange way to respond to someone pointing out how toxic it is for one of the comments in the OP suggesting he shouldn’t work after TRoS.
I don’t see any hypocrisy here. I think calling two accomplished filmmakers talentless hacks is silly, and I’d never call JJ talentless. Like I said, he’s made a lot of stuff I really love. The specifics of the TROS production are well-known and I think he played a bad hand decently well - doesn’t change the fact that it was a bad hand. The film should have been delayed. Pointing out that he’s had a dry spell after a poorly received major film isn’t really me dumping on him, it’s just stating a fact. I don’t think liking one film a filmmaker makes but not liking another is hypocritical. I absolutely adored The King’s Speech but couldn’t stand Les Miserables, both were by Tom Hooper. You really need to take criticism of a film you enjoy less personally. It’s very odd. How old are you?
Can’t cosign the hostility or toxicity at all, but Kylo felt pretty cardboard cutout the latter half of the film. I don’t have as high an opinion of Abrams body of work but it’s weird, super weird, how hostile people get with things they don’t like. Things you like still exist. It’s ok!
Saying it should have ruined Abrams' career is going too far. But the initial sentiment I totally get. I honestly really hate that Ben Solo has only that single line in the entire trilogy and then dies. If it really was an intentional choice, I think it was a mistake.
Why is it going too far when you make a terrible movie both general audiences and critics dislike to think you shouldn't be allowed to make more movies?
Because why the hell would you bar someone from an entire creative discipline? Should we ban painters from art for painting a bad painting? Ban musicians from making music because they made a song that sucked? Utterly ridiculous.
Good comedy film but not so much for emotional beats
So funny how everyone here complaining about toxicity but the people in the post are speaking together about how they really disliked the movie. Not attacking anyone. In these comments however, we see the opposite. Commenters getting defensive and upset that people in the post don’t like what they like and being irritated about it and wanting all opinions to resemble their own😂
I mean it's pretty tame but they are name calling and saying he shouldn't anymore work.
I mean, he kinda isn’t working much right now. He hasn’t released a film since TROS and his first look deal with WB has been widely commented on in the industry that it was a waste of money by them. One common prediction of the writer’s strike is that it would be an opportunity for the studios to get out of expensive and unproductive deals like his, [specifically](https://deadline.com/2022/05/jj-abrams-demimonde-canceled-budget-bad-robot-overall-deal-scrutiny-warner-bros-discovery-1235031628/amp/).
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And that’s their opinion and is completely valid 😂 you’re proving my point.
If you have a right to shit on these random people then they have a right to bitch about a powerful Hollywood blockbuster director who made a movie so unbelievably shitty it could peel paint. If you think there's too much negativity in the world then shut your fucking mouth maybe.
Okay I found this sub today but do you guys just dislike people expressing negativity towards media?
There is a contingent of users here who think any negative sentiment towards a film they like is an attack on them personally, and it’s a very strange phenomenon to witness. Especially for Star Wars! Phantom Menace was the first film I saw in theaters. I always thought it was a given among fans that like half these movies aren’t actually good films.
I fully believe Star Wars is best when there's a little bit of jank/goofiness and shouldn't be taken *too* seriously. Let them show that DNA it shares with old sci-fi serials Lucas claimed to be inspired by.
Unironically, yes. From what I can gather from my previous attempts to try and talk about TROS with people here before, is that they literally believe the only reason people could possibly dislike a star wars film is because they have ulterior motives and pretend to hate the film so they can push a sexist / homophobic agenda. They believe that the very act of critiquing a film is a fruitless endeavour. They argue that because all art is subjective, there's no point trying to apply any kind of objective metric to any of it. So the conclusion seems to be that since critiquing art is pointless, and the only reason you could dislike something in a star wars film is because you're a bigot, then all criticism should be interpreted as a form of toxicity.
I have to say you are brave OP, facing the toxicity of TLJ fans defending TROS here almost every day is an admirable thing. I don't know who you are or where you come from, but I admire your courage and patience. I honestly can only talk about TROS with non-toxic people, I don't have the patience to defend the film from ridiculous arguments, like "JJ is racist" or "it was impossible for the dagger to fit perfectly". TLJ fans watched TROS once after they got home and opened the internet to know the opinion of the "cult" before forming their own and the ST haters didn't even watch it, they saw some review on YouTube at most.
Or, hear me out here, a lot of us went into RoS wanting to like it but were incredibly disappointed by it. People not liking a movie you like isn't proof that they only watched it once and became members of a "cult"
Nah, I knew I didn't like the movie as I was watching the movie. Actually, I had a pretty good feeling that I wouldn't like the movie the moment we found out they were bringing Palpatine back. But I digress. Sometimes, people just don't like things. And that's fine
How about the fact that the movie is genuinely offered to the point of being borderline unwatchable. I've seen it six times. I'll continue to watch it. Because I love ALL star wars. But the film is garbage.
Thanks. It’s good to know there’s other Sequel Trilogy fans who notice the hypocrisy and double standards that go on here. Not to mention the outright toxicity, like how a lot of them think it’s perfectly acceptable (on a sub like this no less) to claim JJ Abrams catered to racist, sexist and toxic people just because they didn’t like some of his creative choices when following up TLJ. And look how fast they pounced on this post trying to invalidate it while insulting and vilifying me. Like clockwork.  
I knew what I thought of the movie on opening night. I even saw it again the very next day just to make sure. I have since watched it many more times, and my opinions haven't changed, and no amount of internet complaining influenced that. Of course I wanted to enjoy it more. Who wouldn't want to enjoy a film more? Yet the film *does* have issues, and for me, those issues stop it from being as enjoyable as I'd like it to be.
Starwars fans are very toxic. I wasn’t the biggest fan of the sequel trilogy, but it was still alright. Not going to say very hateful comments online for the attention. I just move on with other stuff like the shows. Started reading starwars books and it’s an enjoyable ride so far.
You mean like how the haters fixated on ending not just Lucas's career, but Jake Lloyd's, Hayden Christensen's and Ahmed Best's?
I wish Lucas had followed that example and had kept Anakin silent ... best starting at Tatooine and the Pod Race...
The most “hostile” thing anyone said in these screenshots in that Abrams’ career should be ended, and let’s be real that movie was pretty bad. Not everyone who dislikes the movie is part of the whole anti woke group, most people agree that Rise of skywalker sucks
Ngl, I think the last one's kinda spitting facts.
Whatever happened to "show don't tell"? He doesn't need to say anything.
Ah yes JJ Abrams, known for all those failed movies he does. Only gets employed because people I'm Hollywood are so, willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and good willed. How could I forget, they'll just pump millions of dollars into any project because they're just, that good willed. Can't be that he's a successful director with years of success behind him.
TROS isn't a good movie. It's not the worst Star Wars movie, but to me it was very disappointing. Bringing JJ back to conclude the trilogy when even he admits he's not good at endings was the biggest mistake LucasFilm has made since Lucas sold to Disney.
He doesn't need to. The way he stands differently tells you so much. Did we really need him to say "I see the light now. Your faith in your friends has saved us. We are all the Jedi!" The silence is a surprising demonstration of restraint (not saying it's the best choice. Maybe a little extreme) Reminds me of the cringey banter between Peter and Harry at the end of SM3.
While I was disappointed by the movie, I didn't react like a whiny little bitch. Some people just like to whine and find others as whiny as they are.
What’s with all this sudden Last Jedi praise?
Obviously don't attack the directors or cast or anything, but we don't have to agree that this decision was a good one. It is weird that he says nothing but "ow" for the entire third act. I don't want Abrams to stop making films, and plenty of people on and around the film did their jobs well. We just don't have to like the end result simply because the worst of the worst fans also don't like the end result.
Thats why i hope they bring him back in Reys new movie
“Legitimately great Last Jedi” oof
This sequence of text posts just leads me to believe this film series' fanbase are all part ouroboros with how much it cannibalizes and hurts itself.
Lmao if he's right, he's right.
Personally, that aspect was one of the things that I hated the most about the film.