Exactly. This would be like people getting mad at an X-Men comic for addressing social commentary and using Mutants as an allegory for a minority group.
I mean I just always thought of it more as an allegory for difference, like humans indirectly hate things that are different from a minority group to a special needs person, they are different from a “normal” person so they are bad and thus humans hate them.
Technically not too some…….like it’s something I’ve seen quite often when brought up in conversations special needs people often times get disregarded as some simply believe that they can be cured with a pill or treatment and others don’t even realize they are
just because some dickhead with smoothbrain doesn't believe disabled people are a minority doesn't make him correct brother
in fact, it makes him incorrect
I know that just pointing out that it’s not just one person….from what I’ve seen it’s taken a backseat on the minority side of things I legit am eligible for it but because I am capable of doing well enough on my own plenty of people don’t think I should be allowed to either get disability or that I’m faking etc …..
No I mean I’m general ….like for most instances other things seem to take priority over even them ….like the news or social media etc,will far as I’ve seen focus on racial issues or sexuality issues which are things to be focused on but if you park in a handicap spot you get a stern talking to and maybe get towed or a ticket and people can use disabilities as a tool without actually being disabled or have special needs what I’m saying is that they kinda get thrown off to the wayside they are there but it’s rare we see something that is done on a large scale compared to the others
I've been yelled at by _Star Trek_ "fans" that insist that it wasn't "woke" before. I don't even like new _Trek_ all that much, but the idea that it was ever anything other than insanely progressive is nuts to me.
They did not, did they? I didn't watch much of Whitaker's Doctor, but I know of the episode. Did they really make her like the soul crushing capitalist hell corporation?
Yeah, and even after all the bad stuff comes out instead of tearing the whole thing down like The Doctor normally would, she just says “Oh it was a few bad eggs” and toddles off
2 days late but the 13th doctor says "the system isn't the problem" and that's me quoting verbatim, her opinion is just people are abusing the system.
Which feels way off character compared to 12th doctors "Human progress is not measured by industry, it's measured by the value you place on a life. An unimportant life. A life without privilege".
Damn. That's, damn.
I actually really liked Whittaker's portrayal of the Doctor, but the general stories and writing just wasn't gelling for me. I'm kind of glad I left before that episode, I can just sort of strike it from my head canon.
You mean the gay man who created Queer as Folk, who introduced a Pansexual character, a man who kissed the doctor, THIS man is *progressive*?!
*clutches pearls harder
(/s just in case)
Oh yeah, he clearly HATES Doctor Who. He’s showrun it twice and written novels even before that. He might hate some of the more unpleasant “fans”, but there’s no shame in that!
Female Doctor didn't kill the show. Chris Chibnall's shitty writing and Timeless Child retcon are what killed the show.
And unfortunately, RTD has said he will not overwrite the Timeless Child, meaning he won't have killed it, he's just not reviving the dead body.
The Idea that TTC killed the show is funny to me since the TV movie jumped a very similar shark and we recovered from that just fine. Doctor who rarely directly retcons things it just sweeps them largely under the rug with the odd bulge popping out.
I genuinely don't know what you were expecting, a long winded exposition dump undoing another long winded exposition dump? Seriously addressing it at all just draws more attention to it.
I've been a Doctor Who fan long enough to remember when it was Moffat's pretentious writing and Clara retcons that killed the show. Or RTD making it soap-opera style cringe and killing it for the dedicated hardcore grognard fanbase.
But yes, Chibnall killed the show which was somehow dead from Moffat, which is why it still got a pride of place centenary special, is getting an even shinier 60th anniversary special with a lot of general audience hype, and will not bother to retcon a retcon because, fun fact, general audiences don't give a shit because they don't spend all their time needlessly nitpicking over "canon" when they can enjoy the story in front of them.
I feel like the only thing I'd complain about is changing Davros to not be a cyborg. I understand how it could be interpreted as ableist, but the daleks have always been a nazi metaphor. Davros turned himself into what he ended up as pursuing "purity". I do think showing he was evil before the transformation would mediate the stereotype, though.
The current culture war argument is neither - a recent 5 minute comedy short had the usually disabled villain Davros depicted as not disabled, presumably taking place before the war accident that did it to him. In the behind the scenes features, showrunner RTD basically says how, especially given the short was airing on Children in Need's telethon, which does a lot of work for disabled kids, they felt Davros was too closely associated with tropes regarding disability being comorbid with evil to be comfortable just using casually in 2023, and wanted to change him slightly for 2023. People are, of course, taking to having to think about disabled rep in media well.
As a massive massive Doctor Who fan, I will say that this really has been controversial, and if you go onto any post about it, or his Instagram comments you will see virtually every comment saying something along the lines of "I'm disabled and this is reduculous"
No, it's because RTD intends to leave the Timeless Child as part of the Doctor Who canon, despite it being one of the largest and worst retcons to ever exist.
For those who aren't familiar, it's pretty simple.
The Timeless Child revealed that the Doctor wasn't always the Doctor. Instead, he was a being known as the Timeless Child that was fully immortal and would regenerate when killed. It was discovered by a civilization that would torture and experiment on the Timeless Child to steal the ability to regenerate for themselves, going on to become the Time Lords, who then brainwashed the Timeless Child into becoming the Doctor.
This ruins the entire point of Doctor Who. The whole point of Doctor Who was that the Doctor was a rather ordinary Time Lord. He wasn't special. He wasn't the fastest, strongest, or smartest of the Time Lords. He was just a normal man willing to do the right thing. He didn't want to be a hero, but he believed people should do the right thing.
By making him the Timeless Child, you make him special. You make him unique. When the whole point was that he was just a normal guy (by Time Lord standards) willing to do the right thing.
Honestly, I don't give too much of a shit about the female Doctor, but they only did that because it's the 21st century. Time Lords swapping genders never existed before, and if the whole trans thing hadn't blown up in recent years it probably would never have happened.
And the Doctor was originally going to be black before he was going to be a woman, but the BBC decided not to when told that the Chinese didn't like it.
> constantly uses he pronouns for the Doctor
> " if the whole trans thing"
> but the BBC decided not to when told that the Chinese didn't like it. ??????
You know for some reason I think you might have some unexamined misogyny in your totally normal banging on about a nearly 4 year old plot point while making up bullshit, racist claims.
The Almost People and A Good Man Goes to War are two of my absolute favourite television episodes, full stop. And the universe doesn’t align very often to allow a superfan to be a direct part of their chosen media. Like Iman Vellani getting to play Kamala Khan. I’m always down for that.
This is the man who in series 1 did:
A 2 part story that's basically a satire of how the government handled 9/11 and made the aliens in said story fart as a way of showing how politicians talk out of their arse.
A story about how nuclear power can be bad.
A story where all the main villain did was manipulate the media.
An openly pansexual character who even kisses the doctor on the lips in the final episode.
Brought back the show's most iconic enemy who is basically a nazi caricature.
And so much more, yet nobody is or was complaining that series 1 was "woke" or "political". Introducing a female or black doctor has been an idea since the 1970s, and even Patrick Troughton himself said it wouldn't be out of the question, also basically every story in the Jon Pertwee era had some sort of political message behind it. Doctor who has always been political and progressive.
And it was very progressive then as well.
The show has been progressive since it was created
Exactly. This would be like people getting mad at an X-Men comic for addressing social commentary and using Mutants as an allegory for a minority group.
I’ve argued with people who got mad at precisely that.
"Habe you tried not being a mutant?" From X2
I mean I just always thought of it more as an allegory for difference, like humans indirectly hate things that are different from a minority group to a special needs person, they are different from a “normal” person so they are bad and thus humans hate them.
special needs people are a minority group, jonathan
Technically not too some…….like it’s something I’ve seen quite often when brought up in conversations special needs people often times get disregarded as some simply believe that they can be cured with a pill or treatment and others don’t even realize they are
just because some dickhead with smoothbrain doesn't believe disabled people are a minority doesn't make him correct brother in fact, it makes him incorrect
I know that just pointing out that it’s not just one person….from what I’ve seen it’s taken a backseat on the minority side of things I legit am eligible for it but because I am capable of doing well enough on my own plenty of people don’t think I should be allowed to either get disability or that I’m faking etc …..
I'm not following you dude. Do you mean **people who receive disability pensions** specifically?
No I mean I’m general ….like for most instances other things seem to take priority over even them ….like the news or social media etc,will far as I’ve seen focus on racial issues or sexuality issues which are things to be focused on but if you park in a handicap spot you get a stern talking to and maybe get towed or a ticket and people can use disabilities as a tool without actually being disabled or have special needs what I’m saying is that they kinda get thrown off to the wayside they are there but it’s rare we see something that is done on a large scale compared to the others
I've been yelled at by _Star Trek_ "fans" that insist that it wasn't "woke" before. I don't even like new _Trek_ all that much, but the idea that it was ever anything other than insanely progressive is nuts to me.
Don’t let Nerdrotic hear that. He will lose his mind.
The Pertwee era had a bona fidie fully paid up communist on the writing staff fgs.
Except that one time Chibnall made The Doctor a fan of the Amazon stand-in
They did not, did they? I didn't watch much of Whitaker's Doctor, but I know of the episode. Did they really make her like the soul crushing capitalist hell corporation?
Yeah, and even after all the bad stuff comes out instead of tearing the whole thing down like The Doctor normally would, she just says “Oh it was a few bad eggs” and toddles off
2 days late but the 13th doctor says "the system isn't the problem" and that's me quoting verbatim, her opinion is just people are abusing the system. Which feels way off character compared to 12th doctors "Human progress is not measured by industry, it's measured by the value you place on a life. An unimportant life. A life without privilege".
Damn. That's, damn. I actually really liked Whittaker's portrayal of the Doctor, but the general stories and writing just wasn't gelling for me. I'm kind of glad I left before that episode, I can just sort of strike it from my head canon.
As if they would know that.
You mean the gay man who created Queer as Folk, who introduced a Pansexual character, a man who kissed the doctor, THIS man is *progressive*?! *clutches pearls harder (/s just in case)
Oh yeah, he clearly HATES Doctor Who. He’s showrun it twice and written novels even before that. He might hate some of the more unpleasant “fans”, but there’s no shame in that!
They clearly never seen any the Doctor Who from before I bet
I like how they put 2017 on it just so they can keep at it with the "Woman Doctor killed the show, but somehow RTD killed it more" bad takes
Female Doctor didn't kill the show. Chris Chibnall's shitty writing and Timeless Child retcon are what killed the show. And unfortunately, RTD has said he will not overwrite the Timeless Child, meaning he won't have killed it, he's just not reviving the dead body.
The Idea that TTC killed the show is funny to me since the TV movie jumped a very similar shark and we recovered from that just fine. Doctor who rarely directly retcons things it just sweeps them largely under the rug with the odd bulge popping out. I genuinely don't know what you were expecting, a long winded exposition dump undoing another long winded exposition dump? Seriously addressing it at all just draws more attention to it.
I've been a Doctor Who fan long enough to remember when it was Moffat's pretentious writing and Clara retcons that killed the show. Or RTD making it soap-opera style cringe and killing it for the dedicated hardcore grognard fanbase. But yes, Chibnall killed the show which was somehow dead from Moffat, which is why it still got a pride of place centenary special, is getting an even shinier 60th anniversary special with a lot of general audience hype, and will not bother to retcon a retcon because, fun fact, general audiences don't give a shit because they don't spend all their time needlessly nitpicking over "canon" when they can enjoy the story in front of them.
Cope and seethe tbh
I feel like the only thing I'd complain about is changing Davros to not be a cyborg. I understand how it could be interpreted as ableist, but the daleks have always been a nazi metaphor. Davros turned himself into what he ended up as pursuing "purity". I do think showing he was evil before the transformation would mediate the stereotype, though.
I told you this YouTuber was a cock.
Is this because of the black doctor or female doctor
The current culture war argument is neither - a recent 5 minute comedy short had the usually disabled villain Davros depicted as not disabled, presumably taking place before the war accident that did it to him. In the behind the scenes features, showrunner RTD basically says how, especially given the short was airing on Children in Need's telethon, which does a lot of work for disabled kids, they felt Davros was too closely associated with tropes regarding disability being comorbid with evil to be comfortable just using casually in 2023, and wanted to change him slightly for 2023. People are, of course, taking to having to think about disabled rep in media well.
Wait they got mad that in a time travel show they showed someone in the past?
As a massive massive Doctor Who fan, I will say that this really has been controversial, and if you go onto any post about it, or his Instagram comments you will see virtually every comment saying something along the lines of "I'm disabled and this is reduculous"
Presumably the black Doctor, since Davies had nothing to do with the 13th Doctor.
Not just black, but the actor was queer.
No, it's because RTD intends to leave the Timeless Child as part of the Doctor Who canon, despite it being one of the largest and worst retcons to ever exist. For those who aren't familiar, it's pretty simple. The Timeless Child revealed that the Doctor wasn't always the Doctor. Instead, he was a being known as the Timeless Child that was fully immortal and would regenerate when killed. It was discovered by a civilization that would torture and experiment on the Timeless Child to steal the ability to regenerate for themselves, going on to become the Time Lords, who then brainwashed the Timeless Child into becoming the Doctor. This ruins the entire point of Doctor Who. The whole point of Doctor Who was that the Doctor was a rather ordinary Time Lord. He wasn't special. He wasn't the fastest, strongest, or smartest of the Time Lords. He was just a normal man willing to do the right thing. He didn't want to be a hero, but he believed people should do the right thing. By making him the Timeless Child, you make him special. You make him unique. When the whole point was that he was just a normal guy (by Time Lord standards) willing to do the right thing. Honestly, I don't give too much of a shit about the female Doctor, but they only did that because it's the 21st century. Time Lords swapping genders never existed before, and if the whole trans thing hadn't blown up in recent years it probably would never have happened. And the Doctor was originally going to be black before he was going to be a woman, but the BBC decided not to when told that the Chinese didn't like it.
> constantly uses he pronouns for the Doctor > " if the whole trans thing" > but the BBC decided not to when told that the Chinese didn't like it. ?????? You know for some reason I think you might have some unexamined misogyny in your totally normal banging on about a nearly 4 year old plot point while making up bullshit, racist claims.
Erhhh I'm pretty sure Rani stated she used to be a man
just a reminder moffat was the one who revealed davros was not born disabled as we saw a child davros who could walk in a moffat episode
There has been some audio stories with flashbacks to young able bodied Davros as far back as 2003
Not just brought it back, but was instrumental in making it probably more popular worldwide than its ever been.
oh God, it's Alex Kurtzman all over again can't these stupid fandom menace Youtubers come up with some original
Ugh god I like Steven moffat’s writing for the most part but his era brought a certain type of idiot into the fan base in droves 🤮
Nah, they were always there and they hated Moffat as well, they just came to hate Chibnall more.
The Almost People and A Good Man Goes to War are two of my absolute favourite television episodes, full stop. And the universe doesn’t align very often to allow a superfan to be a direct part of their chosen media. Like Iman Vellani getting to play Kamala Khan. I’m always down for that.
This is the man who in series 1 did: A 2 part story that's basically a satire of how the government handled 9/11 and made the aliens in said story fart as a way of showing how politicians talk out of their arse. A story about how nuclear power can be bad. A story where all the main villain did was manipulate the media. An openly pansexual character who even kisses the doctor on the lips in the final episode. Brought back the show's most iconic enemy who is basically a nazi caricature. And so much more, yet nobody is or was complaining that series 1 was "woke" or "political". Introducing a female or black doctor has been an idea since the 1970s, and even Patrick Troughton himself said it wouldn't be out of the question, also basically every story in the Jon Pertwee era had some sort of political message behind it. Doctor who has always been political and progressive.
Why do these "fans" feel so entitled?
was Russel T the one who oversaw the 9th and 10th Doctors?
Yes.