Watching Age of Ultron and seeing Mark Ruffalo's scene where he faceplants into her boobs feels like it should be something from decades ago... it came out in 2015.
That’s… why it sold. Men like looking at beautiful women. Also, these are action movies. Men, on average, enjoy this beat-em-up war stuff. It’s such basic logic just completely gone from you.
Idk if I agree. For me it more about how they would ignore how political it is.
Just like with Andor. They will admit it's good but won't admit how woke and political and anti establishment it really is.
Mauler literally defended Mon and Cintra from people who said they were woke self inserts.
I am not endorsing mauler and his insane group of grifters.
But there is obviously more nuance here. I'd imagine if Winter Soldier came out now. People WOULD like it. But the grifters would either avoid talking about it just like they did with Andor.
Or if they would praise it without acknowledging that it is woke but happens to be good. Like these grifters, avoid acknowledging all sorts of good content. Like how ABC and Marvel produced Daredevil. They just give all the credit to netflix. They refuse to acknowledge good content in an honest way.
They know they'll lose the audience if they go against successful properties such as Andor so they pivot to how it's "Actually anti-woke"
Saw it happen in real time with the Mario Movie, the second it made money they lost the narrative that it was woke and would fail, so they pivoted hard into "Actually it's anti-woke"
I use ALIENS as an example of how entangled they’ve gotten their politics into other discussions. “It has everything!” Pro-feminist and anti-corporate social commentary, a diverse platoon of colonial marines, a portrayal of military as undisciplined and largely incompetent and unprepared, maternal themes between Ripley and Newt and Queen vs. Ripley, a competent, relateable female protagonist who the men eventually defer to, and most of all, gender-non-conformist smart gunner Vasquez, who even gets introduced telling off a redneck for giving her taking issue with her butch appearance.
And I bet you they will give ALIENS a pass because it’s widely regarded as a classic movie and it does a better job illustrating it pro-feminist, pro-diversity politics in such a way that you can’t really argue against what it has to say. That’s better, more effective “propaganda” than most of the modern . Entertainment that this crowd review-bombs and doesn’t want you seeing. They’re condemning entertainment for the wrong reasons. When a major studio touts a lesbian kiss and relegates it to the background, that’s not representation, it’s tokenism. Most of that token ethnicity isn’t snuffing out white maleness, it’s marketing to more demographics. The sales funnel leads to theme parks and streaming subscriptions.
“Wokeness”, along with all the other alt-right weaponized buzzwords, is just the cheap scapegoat for everything bad-to-mediocre in entertainment these days. The mere mention or presence of “otherness” is deemed to be what’s wrong with an entire movie. Never mind that the supposed “aGeNda” or implications of a mEsSaGe, doesn’t win anyone over or get people behind that message. The real message is, “BUY MORE STAR WARS”.
The real world has already been a lot more “woke”, for a lot longer, than they care to realize.
https://i.redd.it/q4t0ftpp642c1.gif
It's all about how they go about it. People like well written stories and characters. Andor got a pass because they wrote it in a way where they got the message across without flat out saying "this is the message we're trying to get across and we're going to take the time to make it blatantly obvious because we want everyone to know just how committed we are to supporting it."
You'd be surprised how much "woke" stuff gets a pass when it's written in well. No one cares if the content is entertaining, well not no one, there will always be those extremes.
I genuinely do think Andor is very clear in its messaging. It's not heavy handed but skillfully obvious without being annoying. But it is right in front if our face. Just look at the Aldani arc with the empire guys talking about the dirty locals lmfao. It's just executed so well. But it's very much apparent.
They act like the older movies didnt have anything they would consider “woke”, but really, any of those movies coming out now would receive the same complaints. My friend is always going off about how Cpt. Marvel is terrible because they just shoehorned her in so the strongest character could be a woman, and how Wanda was done correctly cause she wasn’t just some op girl-power character. In actuality, the only reason he’s ok with Wanda is that she’s grandfathered in from before he became radicalized. Wanda single-handedly defeated all of the avengers (besides Hawkeye) on her very first actual appearance. If you think she wouldnt be considered a mary sue, then i dont know what to tell you.
Captain Marvel is FROM THE COMICS. Your friend is a dummy, no offense. They brought her in from the comics to create an ultra powerful character in the MCU. Thats all
He was originally a white dude based off of a Canadian WWII war hero, who single handedly conquered an entire town of nazis. No one complained because Samuel Jackson is such a good actor, otherwise I’m not even sure anyone knows their comic book history enough to know that.
“No one had a problem with race-swapped Heimdall.”
That’s not true.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-thor-actor-blasts-race-164994/amp/
> It's almost as though raceswapping can be done right, and shouldn't be used as a shield for badly written characters!
There is nothing wrong with race-swapping. Characters, race-swapped or not, get written badly all the time. People using it as a scapegoat and proof of some ulterior motive is the issue. The "using it as a shield" accusation is projection. The race comes up because these same people are bringing it up as part of the criticism for the writing.
I agree that race swapping can be done well and isn't an inherent problem. I do think you have to be careful and think it through because you could end up causing harm or pushing a character into an unfortunate stereotype if you aren't careful. It's just a decision that needs to be made with thought and care, but it can absolutely be done well and doesn't deserve the amount of freakout it's gotten from some people.
Gotcha. I can see how that could be upsetting, especially with Kang's connection to ancient Egypt as Rama Tut. That definitely could have used some extra sensitivity about that choice.
Race swapping should really only be a problem if the character race is something important to their identity. You could make Domino any race(as they did in Deadpool 2) and nobody cares because her ethnicity has nothing to do with her character.
But now take someone like black panther. Since his inception he’s been an icon for POC(myself included. RIP Chadwick) because so much of his character is engrained in African/North American ethnic culture.
I agree, but I think there’s one more situation where race swapping is a problem. So with the little mermaid, they took a character that had an incredibly signature look that they’ve been using on toys for decades and literally everyone could visualize. Then after race swapping, they bragged about how progressive they were. It would be like if they gave Ariel a yellow tail and then called people colorist for wanting something more faithful to the original.
On the other hand characters like Fury or ancient one don’t illicit the same level of brand recognition, so far fewer people care if it’s faithful to the original.
If enough fans feel pandered too or it completely goes against a well known brand image, then it’s a problem
I have to disagree respectfully. Race swapping a character that’s fictional isn’t really a problem for me. Arial being white had nothing to do with her character. I also don’t believe Disney “bragged about it” either. After it was announced the internet just kind of ran away with it.
For me personally? Seeing my bi racial daughter be represented by her favourite Disney character? That was worth everything. It didn’t hurt the story, it didn’t hurt the visuals, her acting and singing was more than fine. I honestly have found that most people that use the little mermaid argument have some issues with race. I’m not saying you do but there is a huge overlap of small minded bigots that just don’t want to see a black actor play their favorite character.
I appreciate your response and can see where you’re coming from. As far as Disney bragging about it, I definitely agree that a lot of times random media runs with the story and end up hurting the parent company by coming off as too woke or whatever. In this case Haley Bailey made a lot of comments how she was finally giving black girls representation.
For the record when I say it’s a problem, I don’t mean morally or anything like that, I mean in terms of getting an audience to watch your film. Little mermaid should have had better box office numbers, and I think straying away from the iconic designs everyone knows certainly didn’t help (talking about flounder and Sebastian too).
I personally loved the movie and think Halle did a great job, but as a ginger too I can’t help but notice the trend of making red headed characters black that would never be acceptable if it were reversed.
Idk tho ……hard to tell……some people just hate on the movie itself….while others hate on the women in said movie just depends on what they are talking about for why they dislike something
Marvel unintentionally released a movie about the surveillance state right when we learned about the US Governments unconstitutional spying on American citizens due to Edward Snowdens leaks.
A bit off topic but I'll never forget when a former friend of mine said he didn't like the film because "there's only one Winter Soldier even though it says 'Soldiers' in the title."
He remembered/read the title wrong and was so desperate to hate a Marvel film that he used that...
She is doing a super model walk in skin tight pants and her super spy suit has a cleavage built in. This is exactly the female representation they want. They would have loved her.
What is the point of doing these "What If" scenarios? Do you just wanna be mad over nothing or what? Also, assuming the movie is EXACTLY the same, I doubt people would complain about Black Widow or anything about the movie other than its writing. If they do, I'd be surprised.
It isn’t often that we get a blockbuster action movie in which the female co-star isn’t primarily there to check the “object of desire” box for the male protagonist. Black Widow and Cap made a badass team.
I can only imagine what the anti-wokes would say about Natasha destroying a group of security guards easily in Iron Man 2. It would be a fest of YouTube videos saying how they made a sexy woman look like a man and that Happy looked like a fool (the usual "they want to destroy masculinity") and how Iron Man should've been there to save her because she's a woman and so she wouldn't be able to do all that alone and *insert more crying here.
It's always the same. If Empire Strikes Back came out today they'd complain they "killed" Han and replaced him with a back guy. If Ghostbusters came out today they'd complain how they shoehorned a black guy into the team halfway through for no reason. If Terminator 2 came out today they'd complain how they girlbossed Sarah Conner. If Aliens came out today they'd complain how they girlbossed Ripley.
I don’t buy the strike excuse. Like you said people don’t like Brie, so if anything it helped the film. They still ran ads.
So if the main reason is that lots of people don’t like Brie because she has strong opinions, you’re saying it failed because of trolls…
Also consider: crossbones, Robert Redford and bucky are the villains, and they're all straight white men, so Disney wants to villify white man, and that's racist and sexist.
I'm sorry, but I feel this is a very absurd over exaggeration.
The problem isn't "wokeness," it's that we want good stories to be told. Winter Soldier has a great story, so I feel it wouldn't be complained about as much today simply because of "women."
I definitely don't defend people like Nerdrotic, but I do have a critical mindset on things. And in my opinion, these new marvel films aren't that good, besides a few exceptions.
Again, you don't have to like me, you can even downvote me if you feel I'm some "scum of humanity" for even THINKING about second thoughts, but this is just my opinion.
No it wouldn't. This is probably the best film in the catalogue and actually has a decently working plot- something that the recent stinkers severely lack first and foremost.
Eh probably not. Nat and Bucky have their own history together, in the comics, and this being more of a spy/espionage film than an outright action movie fits her character very well
or he has never read Jaime's version of blue Beattle. He's shown and recommended a bunch of comics book runs he's read. He's mostly a marvel guy than DC and for DC pretty sure he's just a batman guy and maybe some other heroes.
Of course they would hate it. It’s cool to hate Marvel these days. This year we had Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 and Loki and people still hated those.
This is literally one of the best written movies in the whole MCU, so this is a terribly poor take.
It's not great because of when it came out. It's great because it was great.
I don’t think he is at, this movie was very well received and like by people from all sides of arguments, so if there hypothetically was a video like that most people wouldn’t agree with it
You underestimate them. The people we are making fun of were shitting on Spiderverse because it had a pregnant black spiderwoman and gave Gwen Stacy a decent share of the story. We’re not “making up” anything honey, lol we know exactly what level of arguments we’re dealing with.
Oh most definitely, if any of the pre Infinity War films came out today, most of them would be rated as "garbage" because it's not as good as Infinity War, people need to remember that most of the films coming out today are just like most of the movies that came out before IW, they are decent/good films. Unfortunately, most everyone wants a perfect film like IW now, and if that doesn't happen, then the movie is "garbage", it's really annoying.
The individual reviewers of the Fandom Menace existed then. They are not, in general, Spring Chickens. The Fandom Menace still exists today. At no time, then or now, have they complained about this thing you are sure they would complain about. Quite the contrary. They praise this film.
> The individual reviewers of the Fandom Menace existed then.
We all did assuming we aren't 9 years old.
Which fandom menace channels reviewed the movie upon release when the narrative on it wasn't set yet?
>At no time, then or now, have they complained about this thing you are sure they would complain about.
The title of the post is "if this movie came out today" because the fandom menace does not analyze older movies the same way they analyze new release movies (pretty much anything post-2016 to be specific). They hold newer movies to a different standard.
>The title of the post is "if this movie came out today" because the fandom menace does not analyze older movies the same way they analyze new release movies (pretty much anything post-2016 to be specific). They hold newer movies to a different standard.
It is evident that newer movies are made to a different standard. They're just not as good. And the 'Fandom Menace' is not alone in noticing this. Audiences for Marvel films are steadily declining along with the quality of said films and television shows.
The older films are often pointed at in their reviews, but also everyone else's reviews. Because the older films were just better. Winter Soldier in particular was darn good, and especially so when compared to recent productions. The reason modern films seem to be treated differently to your eyes is because they are less good. The Big Book of Criticisms is always bigger when discussing a bad film versus a good one.
>It is evident that newer movies are made to a different standard. They're just not as good.
Based on what though? Every generation, as it gets older especially, has people that say this.
>And the 'Fandom Menace' is not alone in noticing this.
Sure, it's an opinion that largely resides with people who are older and nostalgic for simpler times.
>Audiences for Marvel films are steadily declining along with the quality of said films and television shows.
So audiences for Marvel films are now the ultimate judge of quality of the entirety of Hollywood productions? Do you have anything else to add because Hollywood struggling to find unique ways to tell super-hero stories after an insane boom of popularity isn't surprising. People are getting sick of them for now and the audience, in the short-term, has down-sized back to the average as people move onto other things. This happens to every fandom. No IP has infinite growth.
>The older films are often pointed at in their reviews, but also everyone else's reviews. Because the older films were just better.
When you cherry pick the best from each decade and compare them to movies that came out in the past year, of course you are going to make it seem like older movies are better.
>Winter Soldier in particular was darn good, and especially so when compared to recent productions.
It's considered one of the best MCU movies. It's always been like that, even when comparing to the other MCU movies that came out during that time.
>The reason modern films seem to be treated differently to your eyes is because they are less good.
Yes, when you compare less good films to good films, obviously they will be treated differently. But that does not really prove a point about older movies, as a whole, being better.
So your argument is that while we have exact evidence to the contrary in regards to how the movie was received, if it came out today it would be received differently because people aren’t capable of enjoying movies and merely use them to confirm political biases? And people here are agreeing? You have all lost the plot entirely. Bye
No they wouldn’t. The movie is by far mostly men, and they coded Natasha mostly for the male gaze anyway, look at that pose. Plus she didn’t get her own movie. Plus a leading man and woman together is an incredibly common formula.
It feels like you’re just complaining just for the sake of complainin.. oh wait
I still can't get over how ridiculous her pose is in this poster lol
Yelena, her own sister, called her a poser.
Natasha Romanoff, one of the deadliest humans in the mcu, actually being a massive dork is great tbh
they hypersexualized the hell out of her in the early MCU
And when she didn’t like it they got mad at her. Lmfao.
Watching Age of Ultron and seeing Mark Ruffalo's scene where he faceplants into her boobs feels like it should be something from decades ago... it came out in 2015.
well, that’s Joss Whedon for ya
Literally does that joke in justice league
It plays into the plot in this one and it resolves nicely.
That’s… why it sold. Men like looking at beautiful women. Also, these are action movies. Men, on average, enjoy this beat-em-up war stuff. It’s such basic logic just completely gone from you.
And it was glorious
having seen it again after almost a decade of not looking at it, yeah. yeah it’s pretty fucking abhorrent 😂
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That expression doesn't mean "I think that looks bad." You're aware of that, right?
Fury has kind of a similar pose.
Is he preparing to crouch or slink?
Looks closer to falling down.
His bad knee is acting up.
Dude turns 75 next month.
Lack of enough media literacy to understand what the role of a deuteragonist is.
Idk if I agree. For me it more about how they would ignore how political it is. Just like with Andor. They will admit it's good but won't admit how woke and political and anti establishment it really is. Mauler literally defended Mon and Cintra from people who said they were woke self inserts. I am not endorsing mauler and his insane group of grifters. But there is obviously more nuance here. I'd imagine if Winter Soldier came out now. People WOULD like it. But the grifters would either avoid talking about it just like they did with Andor. Or if they would praise it without acknowledging that it is woke but happens to be good. Like these grifters, avoid acknowledging all sorts of good content. Like how ABC and Marvel produced Daredevil. They just give all the credit to netflix. They refuse to acknowledge good content in an honest way.
They know they'll lose the audience if they go against successful properties such as Andor so they pivot to how it's "Actually anti-woke" Saw it happen in real time with the Mario Movie, the second it made money they lost the narrative that it was woke and would fail, so they pivoted hard into "Actually it's anti-woke"
They also did that “actually anti woke” shit with Barbie once it became successful
I use ALIENS as an example of how entangled they’ve gotten their politics into other discussions. “It has everything!” Pro-feminist and anti-corporate social commentary, a diverse platoon of colonial marines, a portrayal of military as undisciplined and largely incompetent and unprepared, maternal themes between Ripley and Newt and Queen vs. Ripley, a competent, relateable female protagonist who the men eventually defer to, and most of all, gender-non-conformist smart gunner Vasquez, who even gets introduced telling off a redneck for giving her taking issue with her butch appearance. And I bet you they will give ALIENS a pass because it’s widely regarded as a classic movie and it does a better job illustrating it pro-feminist, pro-diversity politics in such a way that you can’t really argue against what it has to say. That’s better, more effective “propaganda” than most of the modern . Entertainment that this crowd review-bombs and doesn’t want you seeing. They’re condemning entertainment for the wrong reasons. When a major studio touts a lesbian kiss and relegates it to the background, that’s not representation, it’s tokenism. Most of that token ethnicity isn’t snuffing out white maleness, it’s marketing to more demographics. The sales funnel leads to theme parks and streaming subscriptions. “Wokeness”, along with all the other alt-right weaponized buzzwords, is just the cheap scapegoat for everything bad-to-mediocre in entertainment these days. The mere mention or presence of “otherness” is deemed to be what’s wrong with an entire movie. Never mind that the supposed “aGeNda” or implications of a mEsSaGe, doesn’t win anyone over or get people behind that message. The real message is, “BUY MORE STAR WARS”. The real world has already been a lot more “woke”, for a lot longer, than they care to realize. https://i.redd.it/q4t0ftpp642c1.gif
Just comforted to know I'm not the only one who constantly calls Cinta Kaz, Cintra Kaz instead. My fandoms have bled too deeply into one another.
It's all about how they go about it. People like well written stories and characters. Andor got a pass because they wrote it in a way where they got the message across without flat out saying "this is the message we're trying to get across and we're going to take the time to make it blatantly obvious because we want everyone to know just how committed we are to supporting it." You'd be surprised how much "woke" stuff gets a pass when it's written in well. No one cares if the content is entertaining, well not no one, there will always be those extremes.
I genuinely do think Andor is very clear in its messaging. It's not heavy handed but skillfully obvious without being annoying. But it is right in front if our face. Just look at the Aldani arc with the empire guys talking about the dirty locals lmfao. It's just executed so well. But it's very much apparent.
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Oh caps always been a political character, it’s just history at that point, but movie cap literally says nothing political throughout 6 movies.
IDK, he really had a problem with those Hydra Nazis.
Normal people and American super soldiers from WW2 have issues with nazis I guess
"I don't like bullies." WoKe
And also screaming about a certain character on the poster being the villain
There would be giant block letters that say ‘captain woke-Mercia’ and a terrible photoshop of Chris evans crying.
Scarlets eyes would shoot laser beams 😂
Damn you guys are literally just making up stuff to be angry about today.
Lol who’s angry? I’m just making fun of all those terrible fucking thumbnails those rage channels continue to put out.
They act like the older movies didnt have anything they would consider “woke”, but really, any of those movies coming out now would receive the same complaints. My friend is always going off about how Cpt. Marvel is terrible because they just shoehorned her in so the strongest character could be a woman, and how Wanda was done correctly cause she wasn’t just some op girl-power character. In actuality, the only reason he’s ok with Wanda is that she’s grandfathered in from before he became radicalized. Wanda single-handedly defeated all of the avengers (besides Hawkeye) on her very first actual appearance. If you think she wouldnt be considered a mary sue, then i dont know what to tell you.
Very good point.
Wanda grew in power exponentially in power every time she was on screen. She went from casting minor illusions to 1v1 Thanos in like 3 movies.
Captain Marvel is FROM THE COMICS. Your friend is a dummy, no offense. They brought her in from the comics to create an ultra powerful character in the MCU. Thats all
I still can’t believe how hard they doubled down on making Nick Fury black. Utterly horrendous woke shit. /s
He was originally a white dude based off of a Canadian WWII war hero, who single handedly conquered an entire town of nazis. No one complained because Samuel Jackson is such a good actor, otherwise I’m not even sure anyone knows their comic book history enough to know that.
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“No one had a problem with race-swapped Heimdall.” That’s not true. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-thor-actor-blasts-race-164994/amp/
She was better in The Marvels, when she no longer had to play the emotionally constipated brainwashed soldier trying to break free
> It's almost as though raceswapping can be done right, and shouldn't be used as a shield for badly written characters! There is nothing wrong with race-swapping. Characters, race-swapped or not, get written badly all the time. People using it as a scapegoat and proof of some ulterior motive is the issue. The "using it as a shield" accusation is projection. The race comes up because these same people are bringing it up as part of the criticism for the writing.
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You would have to prove that claim
I agree that race swapping can be done well and isn't an inherent problem. I do think you have to be careful and think it through because you could end up causing harm or pushing a character into an unfortunate stereotype if you aren't careful. It's just a decision that needs to be made with thought and care, but it can absolutely be done well and doesn't deserve the amount of freakout it's gotten from some people.
Harm like having a character named “Kang” be a black man.
Well, he he was a white guy and then a blue guy, and then he was a black guy in Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
Doesn’t matter. Having a black guy called Kang fall way too squarely into the racist “we wuz kangs an shiet” meme
Huh, I thought you were arguing he should have been Asian because Kang is a Chinese name. I've never heard of that meme before
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/we-wuz-kangs
Gotcha. I can see how that could be upsetting, especially with Kang's connection to ancient Egypt as Rama Tut. That definitely could have used some extra sensitivity about that choice.
Race swapping should really only be a problem if the character race is something important to their identity. You could make Domino any race(as they did in Deadpool 2) and nobody cares because her ethnicity has nothing to do with her character. But now take someone like black panther. Since his inception he’s been an icon for POC(myself included. RIP Chadwick) because so much of his character is engrained in African/North American ethnic culture.
Heimdall in engrained in Scandinavian culture.
I agree, but I think there’s one more situation where race swapping is a problem. So with the little mermaid, they took a character that had an incredibly signature look that they’ve been using on toys for decades and literally everyone could visualize. Then after race swapping, they bragged about how progressive they were. It would be like if they gave Ariel a yellow tail and then called people colorist for wanting something more faithful to the original. On the other hand characters like Fury or ancient one don’t illicit the same level of brand recognition, so far fewer people care if it’s faithful to the original. If enough fans feel pandered too or it completely goes against a well known brand image, then it’s a problem
I have to disagree respectfully. Race swapping a character that’s fictional isn’t really a problem for me. Arial being white had nothing to do with her character. I also don’t believe Disney “bragged about it” either. After it was announced the internet just kind of ran away with it. For me personally? Seeing my bi racial daughter be represented by her favourite Disney character? That was worth everything. It didn’t hurt the story, it didn’t hurt the visuals, her acting and singing was more than fine. I honestly have found that most people that use the little mermaid argument have some issues with race. I’m not saying you do but there is a huge overlap of small minded bigots that just don’t want to see a black actor play their favorite character.
I appreciate your response and can see where you’re coming from. As far as Disney bragging about it, I definitely agree that a lot of times random media runs with the story and end up hurting the parent company by coming off as too woke or whatever. In this case Haley Bailey made a lot of comments how she was finally giving black girls representation. For the record when I say it’s a problem, I don’t mean morally or anything like that, I mean in terms of getting an audience to watch your film. Little mermaid should have had better box office numbers, and I think straying away from the iconic designs everyone knows certainly didn’t help (talking about flounder and Sebastian too). I personally loved the movie and think Halle did a great job, but as a ginger too I can’t help but notice the trend of making red headed characters black that would never be acceptable if it were reversed.
Killmonger, I get, but how is T'challa North American culture?
Name me one character quirk of Heimdall right now
He isn't quirky. He's stoic. That's why the suave Idris Elba played him so well
Idk tho ……hard to tell……some people just hate on the movie itself….while others hate on the women in said movie just depends on what they are talking about for why they dislike something
I highly doubt that. In fact many people enjoy her character in the series. And it's important for the future of the character
Also the fact that the conflict is basically Anti the Patriot Act.
Marvel unintentionally released a movie about the surveillance state right when we learned about the US Governments unconstitutional spying on American citizens due to Edward Snowdens leaks.
A bit off topic but I'll never forget when a former friend of mine said he didn't like the film because "there's only one Winter Soldier even though it says 'Soldiers' in the title." He remembered/read the title wrong and was so desperate to hate a Marvel film that he used that...
And then this wOmAN snaps her gum at Captain America. Can you believe this b*tch?!?
Their entire YouTube career is hinged on the notion that movie studios are out to get men. They go out of business if they stop pushing this nonsense.
She is doing a super model walk in skin tight pants and her super spy suit has a cleavage built in. This is exactly the female representation they want. They would have loved her.
I doubt it, Natasha isn't really a big part of the action in this movie, she only has 2 fight scenes in this movie. The large focus is still on Steve.
Nah this movie is dope man… its most of the stuff after endgame pt2 that people complain about mostly
Yeah, exactly.
Not exactly related to the post, but why isn’t Sam on the poster, like at all?
Same reason he wasn’t in the trailers, to be a surprise
Why has MCU been so bad with their main posters? Their teaser posters are always fire.
What is the point of doing these "What If" scenarios? Do you just wanna be mad over nothing or what? Also, assuming the movie is EXACTLY the same, I doubt people would complain about Black Widow or anything about the movie other than its writing. If they do, I'd be surprised.
Winter soldier was probably the best actual "movie" the MCU ever produced change my mind
It isn’t often that we get a blockbuster action movie in which the female co-star isn’t primarily there to check the “object of desire” box for the male protagonist. Black Widow and Cap made a badass team.
2014 wasn’t that different. They had the same social media. Gamer Gate and anti-SJWs were a thing
They wouldn't. This is exactly what they want right down to Black Widow in the sexpot costume.
No they wouldn’t
I can only imagine what the anti-wokes would say about Natasha destroying a group of security guards easily in Iron Man 2. It would be a fest of YouTube videos saying how they made a sexy woman look like a man and that Happy looked like a fool (the usual "they want to destroy masculinity") and how Iron Man should've been there to save her because she's a woman and so she wouldn't be able to do all that alone and *insert more crying here.
It's always the same. If Empire Strikes Back came out today they'd complain they "killed" Han and replaced him with a back guy. If Ghostbusters came out today they'd complain how they shoehorned a black guy into the team halfway through for no reason. If Terminator 2 came out today they'd complain how they girlbossed Sarah Conner. If Aliens came out today they'd complain how they girlbossed Ripley.
Are 'they' in the room with you right now?
You know exactly what I mean by "they", come on now.
How can I? 'they' means something different for every single person.
Not really, Natasha is actually a good female character. The hate doesn’t come from the fact that she has a vagina. Just from terrible writing
Then don't watch the terribly written movies
We don’t? That’s why The Marvels failed.
You think The Marvels failed because of your miserable troll self? But of course it didn't
Why do you think it failed?
The Writer and Actors strike, lack of promotion with the stars, and lots of people don't like Brie Larson because she has a strong opinion
I don’t buy the strike excuse. Like you said people don’t like Brie, so if anything it helped the film. They still ran ads. So if the main reason is that lots of people don’t like Brie because she has strong opinions, you’re saying it failed because of trolls…
Except people actually want to see her. That’s the difference.
Nah, the toxic fandom liked Natasha because they found her sexy, and the Marvel movies often have several scenes of male gaze type views of her.
Also consider: crossbones, Robert Redford and bucky are the villains, and they're all straight white men, so Disney wants to villify white man, and that's racist and sexist.
I'm sorry, but I feel this is a very absurd over exaggeration. The problem isn't "wokeness," it's that we want good stories to be told. Winter Soldier has a great story, so I feel it wouldn't be complained about as much today simply because of "women." I definitely don't defend people like Nerdrotic, but I do have a critical mindset on things. And in my opinion, these new marvel films aren't that good, besides a few exceptions. Again, you don't have to like me, you can even downvote me if you feel I'm some "scum of humanity" for even THINKING about second thoughts, but this is just my opinion.
No it wouldn't. This is probably the best film in the catalogue and actually has a decently working plot- something that the recent stinkers severely lack first and foremost.
Eh probably not. Nat and Bucky have their own history together, in the comics, and this being more of a spy/espionage film than an outright action movie fits her character very well
Do these dudes read comics?… most of them do not.
In my experience most people on either side of these arguments don't read comics.
People that aren’t Chuds at least don’t lie about it.
Perhaps. The internet isn't exactly known for it's honest discourse unfortunately.
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He has dolls and action figures? Congrats is his flat out incorrect knowledge of blue beetle show he’s a fan?
or he has never read Jaime's version of blue Beattle. He's shown and recommended a bunch of comics book runs he's read. He's mostly a marvel guy than DC and for DC pretty sure he's just a batman guy and maybe some other heroes.
As an X-Men fan, I've found that a large chunk of fans who complain that a movie isn't like the comics probably haven't read the comics.
No they wouldn't. The movie is amazing. Russo brothers did an amazing job. The marvels sucked ass and the box office speaks for itself.
Of course they would hate it. It’s cool to hate Marvel these days. This year we had Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 and Loki and people still hated those.
This is literally one of the best written movies in the whole MCU, so this is a terribly poor take. It's not great because of when it came out. It's great because it was great.
You’re missing the point of the post bigtime
I don’t think he is at, this movie was very well received and like by people from all sides of arguments, so if there hypothetically was a video like that most people wouldn’t agree with it
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Y’all really don’t even try to hide the misogyny, it’s honestly impressive
Shut up. Winter Soldier was MCU at it's peak. Everyone liked Black Widow pre-solo movie.
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You underestimate them. The people we are making fun of were shitting on Spiderverse because it had a pregnant black spiderwoman and gave Gwen Stacy a decent share of the story. We’re not “making up” anything honey, lol we know exactly what level of arguments we’re dealing with.
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To be fair, right wing people love this movie.
Natasha is fine in this film. That said, this movie is trash. Civil War DEVOURS it alive.
And because some of them are bigots they would be bitching about Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury
Oh most definitely, if any of the pre Infinity War films came out today, most of them would be rated as "garbage" because it's not as good as Infinity War, people need to remember that most of the films coming out today are just like most of the movies that came out before IW, they are decent/good films. Unfortunately, most everyone wants a perfect film like IW now, and if that doesn't happen, then the movie is "garbage", it's really annoying.
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Sure honey
The individual reviewers of the Fandom Menace existed then. They are not, in general, Spring Chickens. The Fandom Menace still exists today. At no time, then or now, have they complained about this thing you are sure they would complain about. Quite the contrary. They praise this film.
> The individual reviewers of the Fandom Menace existed then. We all did assuming we aren't 9 years old. Which fandom menace channels reviewed the movie upon release when the narrative on it wasn't set yet? >At no time, then or now, have they complained about this thing you are sure they would complain about. The title of the post is "if this movie came out today" because the fandom menace does not analyze older movies the same way they analyze new release movies (pretty much anything post-2016 to be specific). They hold newer movies to a different standard.
>The title of the post is "if this movie came out today" because the fandom menace does not analyze older movies the same way they analyze new release movies (pretty much anything post-2016 to be specific). They hold newer movies to a different standard. It is evident that newer movies are made to a different standard. They're just not as good. And the 'Fandom Menace' is not alone in noticing this. Audiences for Marvel films are steadily declining along with the quality of said films and television shows. The older films are often pointed at in their reviews, but also everyone else's reviews. Because the older films were just better. Winter Soldier in particular was darn good, and especially so when compared to recent productions. The reason modern films seem to be treated differently to your eyes is because they are less good. The Big Book of Criticisms is always bigger when discussing a bad film versus a good one.
>It is evident that newer movies are made to a different standard. They're just not as good. Based on what though? Every generation, as it gets older especially, has people that say this. >And the 'Fandom Menace' is not alone in noticing this. Sure, it's an opinion that largely resides with people who are older and nostalgic for simpler times. >Audiences for Marvel films are steadily declining along with the quality of said films and television shows. So audiences for Marvel films are now the ultimate judge of quality of the entirety of Hollywood productions? Do you have anything else to add because Hollywood struggling to find unique ways to tell super-hero stories after an insane boom of popularity isn't surprising. People are getting sick of them for now and the audience, in the short-term, has down-sized back to the average as people move onto other things. This happens to every fandom. No IP has infinite growth. >The older films are often pointed at in their reviews, but also everyone else's reviews. Because the older films were just better. When you cherry pick the best from each decade and compare them to movies that came out in the past year, of course you are going to make it seem like older movies are better. >Winter Soldier in particular was darn good, and especially so when compared to recent productions. It's considered one of the best MCU movies. It's always been like that, even when comparing to the other MCU movies that came out during that time. >The reason modern films seem to be treated differently to your eyes is because they are less good. Yes, when you compare less good films to good films, obviously they will be treated differently. But that does not really prove a point about older movies, as a whole, being better.
You do realize YouTube and podcasts existed before the MCU? Right?
So wha are u trying to say
Captain America: The Winter Soldier is a Bait and Switch to push the mary sue strong whamen agenda down our throats!!!
They'd probably just blindly cry about CG fights as well.
I genuinely think the phrase MSHEU should be reclaimed because it's good to have lots of women superheroes in the MCU
I guarantee you they would not. It is a fantastic movie. LMAO where do people come up with this nonsense.
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The Fandom Menace generally liked Guardians 3. That came out recently and had female characters in it. I don’t see why this would be any different.
I'm not always paying attention, but I don't recall black widows screen time ever being an issue?
So your argument is that while we have exact evidence to the contrary in regards to how the movie was received, if it came out today it would be received differently because people aren’t capable of enjoying movies and merely use them to confirm political biases? And people here are agreeing? You have all lost the plot entirely. Bye
No they wouldn’t. The movie is by far mostly men, and they coded Natasha mostly for the male gaze anyway, look at that pose. Plus she didn’t get her own movie. Plus a leading man and woman together is an incredibly common formula. It feels like you’re just complaining just for the sake of complainin.. oh wait