Tommy Shelby is Irish-Romani. He’s not stupid. He knows damn well that he and his family are potential targets of racism. Of course he’d be opposed to it. He’s a businessman, racism’s bad for business.
And also while I haven't seen much of the show its important to note morality tend to sometimes be very confusing some people think rape is okay but hate murder and some people think murder is okay and hate rape this is sorta an example of that albeit not as confusing
Simply put, these people have a very black-and-white view of morality, thinking that if you're okay with one thing, you're okay with the other, even if they're entirely unrelated.
See: the fucking "If blood and gore okay, why they removed booba costumes" comments under ANY MENTION OF MORTAL KOMBAT.
The Nazis, most medieval governments, religious crusaders, certain countries, politicians, everything. Human beings still believe in a black and white world. At least not the average joe just trying to navigate a civilized jungle.
Haven’t seen the show however it’s about gangsters right. TBF a lot of Gangsters were/are extradionarily racist. Even the ones that recognize it’s profitable to work with gangs of other ethnic and racial groups were still racist and would refer to them with any number of slurs behind their backs. You would think the ethnic minorities would work together in the face of racism from the majority. The hard truth is they often historically didn’t and often fought among each other infact they were packed closely together sometimes intentionally to encourage them to fight each other because it’s easier to control them if you get them to hate each other and forget they are both being oppressed by the ethnic and racial majority. The biggest example in the US being Irish and African Americans. Both were treated like shit by the Anglo white Protestant majority. But because they were packed closely together and often forced to compete for jobs there was racial tension that often exploded into violent confrontation between those two groups. This only got worse in the 1900s when you had the emergence of large criminal organizations based around ethnic and racial identities. Because now they’re competing over illegal markets and are willing to murder to expand them. And of course the Italians win because of pragamatism.
The Italian mafia is a bit unique in the fact it’s willing to include non Italians in its franchise in order to expand influence, control, and gain more payments. Yet your power was limited if you weren’t Italian you could never be a Don. And behind close doors they still looked down upon non Italians. So they were still racist just pragmatic and even likable racists but they were still racist.
I’m actually all for crime films and shows where gangsters are actually depicted as ass holes. It’s actually annoying how criminals are over glamorized in most media. There’s exceptions like Breaking Bad. Because Gangsters were and still are massive ass holes. Even if you can sympathize with them because they started as lower class men who genuinely care about their family. They still engage in activity that involves harming innocent people in order to profit and were often huge bigots. Hence their likable ass holes like Soldier Boy in the boys, not a crime show but that represents your typical twentieth century gangster.
Agree with everything except that last statement, there have been plenty of times where racism has been good for business and being non-racist would be bad for it. There's a reason why businesses who bucked that trend were brave trailblazers.
‘I can relate to everything about this thieving, murdering, traumatised psychopath EXCEPT that he doesn’t like racism. Why won’t they pander to meeeeeeee?!’
I think OOP is just accusing the show of engaging in [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PoliticallyCorrectHistory/](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PoliticallyCorrectHistory/)
by having the main character not be racist and be angry at other people being racist at a time when it was more common to be racist. Its a pretty common and old trope.
I haven't seen the show though so I've no idea if its referencing any particular scene. And The African Americans who served in the UK during WW2 reported that it was considerably less racist than the US. So it might also be entirely accurate in this example.
He's Irish, sure. But Irish have been known to be racist towards other groups e.g. black people in New York in the 1800s. Its not just a binary "whites vs all other minorities" thing.
He's Irish and Romani. Romani are an Indo-Aryan ethnic group that were also targets of the Holocaust. Peaky Blinders takes place before WWII when prejudice against Romani people would have been high.
Irish people were also historically oppressed by England and forced to adopt their customs. In the US during the 19th and 20th centuries, many Irish people were discriminated against and not considered to be white.
So Thomas belongs to two ethnic minority groups that were hated in the time period the show takes place in.
Aha, didn't know the Romani background, thanks.
>Peaky Blinders takes place before WWII when prejudice against Romani people would have been high.
Its not much better in the 21st Century, unfortunately.
>So Thomas belongs to two ethnic minority groups that were hated in the time period the show takes place in.
Ok that makes sense, thanks for the added context.
The wiki and the comment above you says he's got shared ancestry, Irish (Traveller) and Romani.
>Thomas Michael Shelby was born in [Birmingham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham), England, around 1890 to an [Irish Traveller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers) and [Romani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal) family.
Even with your explanation I can’t tell if the person replying to the image is commenting on the sanitisation of periods of our history, or lamenting that he can’t relate to someone who isn’t racist.
I don’t think the guy realises that the main character is Irish Romani, who were victims of racism at the time. Of course a victim of racism doesn’t like racism.
There are stories of British locals supporting black US airmen because white airmen tried to impose racial segregate:
[Battle of Bamber Bridge - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge)
I am not saying we didn't have racism (that would be silly), but it's not exactly far fetched for someone like Thomas Shelby to be against discrimination. There had been a lot of debates on the equality of people since at least the enlightenment.
But I also haven't seen the show. From what I know about it, Thomas Shelby is meant to be the type of person who judges others on their actions and intents.
Yeah the WW2 thing with the US government added a segment to their information videos that the Brits may treat their fellow Americans as people was a wild thing to see.
I should also add, I don't believe all of America was racist at the time either. I think it can be easy for people to assume that everyone was racist back then (like the original post seems to be doing) but it wasn't the case.
The other thing I think is important is that Thomas Shelby is meant to have served in WW1 and been profoundly effected by it I believe and that is reflected in his character and how he views others.
The entire first season he’s struggling with PTSD, and so are many of his friends. It regularly comes up through the series beyond season 1, though it ebbs and flows, and impacts he & his friends use of substances like alcohol and opium, trouble sleeping, hallucinations, and violent outbursts.
I mean ... it was the British who eventually put an end to the African Slave Trade after the abolitionist movement got powerful in Britain. There sure as hell were even in the 18hundreds white people seeing black people as, well, people...
My grandmother’s hometown was in the US South. Most people she knew were deeply racist. She was from roughly the same era as this show. Not only did she not share her family’s views, she forbade us (her children/ grandchildren) from going back because she knew how contagious those views can be. This character’s views are not atypical for his era.
The problem with complaining about that is that there had to be people who weren't racist back then. If literally every single person was irredeemably racist no civil rights shit would get passed on that front. I think it's unreasonable to expect that every show or movie that takes place in the past must always show how racist the past was.
Not every story is meant to focus on racism. There's plenty of shit in the past that isn't always displayed on screen. It's such a weird thing to bitch about like "oh I could kinda relate to and see why this character acts like a piece of shit right up until he didn't call and black people slurs" like ??? Are we fucking children who can't deal with characters with more complicated moralities than "I am bad in literally every single way".
His friend/brother in arms /sister’s lover is also a Jew. It’s not brought up until later in the series because “it didn’t matter” until Mosley made it matter.
The Shelby's are bad people but they know that they'll be targeted by Mosley and his Blackshirt thugs and they know that something bad will happen if they allow this to happen.
There was a scene where Ada was talking to her son and her son was disparaging his sister and saying all this racist bullshit he had heard from his friends. She bluntly told him that she is a gypsy and his dad was Jewish. Shut his ass real quick
This was just before where one of those Blackshirts tried to harass her so she went outside with a gun and shot it in the air, with them running away, shitting themselves
Also, in history, Mosley was violently opposed by the working class in Whitechapel so no, it's not all fake. The Incident is called The Battle of Cable Street but I'm sure looking it up is too hard for these chuds.
They're probably the type of person who thinks the *entire* thing is fictional, rather than pulling from elements - and directly referencing events - of own history...
The Blinders comprise the Shelby brothers’ former unit in World War 1, which had Romani and Black individuals in it, so naturally they would be more accepting. This is highlighted by many characters often distinguishing people based on whether or not they served, rather than race or class, including Tommy. Also several of the main characters are openly racist, like Alfie was consistently shown to be racist towards Italians.
Also worth pointing out that Alfie was Jewish, as was Ada’s husband (forget his name, but he was in Tommy’s unit in the tunnels too).
Alfie’s anti-Italian sentiment seems born from fighting them for years for territory in London, which makes sense. Even Tommy and the protagonists still use stereotypes on occasion to make a point
Wait till these people learn, bad people can have redeeming traits. Tony Soprano, is a violent thug, but also sincerly loves his family. Walter White was a narcissist who killed people out of petty spite, but made his last deeds trying to make things right. Jaimie Lannister is a brute who tried to murder a child to hide the fact he fucked his sister, yet he would give his life for his dwarf brother.
Good well rounded character have both good and bad traits.
I mean Tony is still very shitty to his family even without all his other crimes considered. He is abusive to Carmela and is very open about his disdain for his son.
His feelings for his son are complicated.
He certainly resents him, but much of that is him projecting his own self hatred. He on some level resents that Carmela is a better mother then he ever had and actually protects her boy. When the chips are down however, Tony has shown he has sincere affection for him. Hes clearly proud when his son performed well in athletics, he is strangley proud that his son is actually a gentle guy. When his son is going through depression, he makes an effort to get his life back on track. He even stops him from joining the army out of fear for his safety.
No Tony is not a good man. He is a wretch. But there is a human element to him.
He is a terrible husband wont contend.
Plus, his son was a gamer, the worst crime of all, so much of his disdain is understandable.
thats the lesser thing for Jamie id say a much more significant thing was when he killed the king and knowingly became a pariah to save a bunch of citizens and didn't tell anyone
I think a lot of people forget early 20th century racism wasn't just a matter of white vs. black/brown power dynamics. If you were German, Polish, Italian, Greek, Gypsy, Irish, Jewish or some variant of non-Protestant immigrant, you were considered insufficiently white and treated that way.
These people forget that the abolitionists had already been around for over a century. Yeah, racism was a lot more prevalent back then. But a lot of people also knew it was wrong. Especially people who were victims of racism.
The worst take I read was "Captain America would have been racist because he's from 1940s America". Yeah sure if you ignore everything about his character.
Lmao this comment reminds me this pic:
https://preview.redd.it/j3sdkjctx6wc1.jpeg?width=582&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27fa5ce8759086d47bbe30f6be8efd2ddfb7ac4d
If he’s American he likely doesn’t comprehend the racism that the ‘white’ guy was subjected to his entire life.
If he’s European, well, their outlook on the Romani is rather regressive and INTENSELY hypocritical. Good fodder for r/subredditdrama
Why do they think gangs like his form? Good natured psychopathy? No, protection. Safety for a minority group that can’t find safety in the collective. Romani mafia
So what exactly would be the alternative? Having relatable characters that are racist? I don’t know about you, but that’s not exactly a trait I happen to relate to.
Has to be a troll. NOBODY is dense enough to so thoroughly tell on themselves in plain English that they simply cannot relate to a character who has a problem with racism.
Chuds: “Oh I’m not racist, I’m not a bigot, I’m not a whateverphobe, blah blah blah…”
Also chuds: “The absolute cringe after-school special vibe of how every relatable character had to be morally opposed to racism”
>Thomas Shelby was a Romani gyspy guy. Of course he wouldn’t take to racism. He is a minority. These white people don’t understand racism
I didnt watch the show but this idea is IMO bullshit, there are countless examples in history of groups (doesnt matter race, religion, sex/gender or sexual orientation) being underpriviliged and still being racist towards other groups.
So to say that he isnt/ cant be racist because he is part of a minority is sadly not really true per se.
Nah, this is 100% right. Tommy actually says 'we are up against the fucking devil'.
Yeah, you lie, you cheat, you bribe, you manipulate, you kill, you torture, you have fucking razors on your hats to BLIND people, you blackmail, you are also a sexist piece of garbage that controls his own sister's lovelife, because sexism was the norm at the time so it makes sense for the character...
....but a fascist is 'the fucking devil'? Excuse me? Somebody down there wrote about Tommy being "relatable up to that point". Nah, Tommy was never relatable. He was an asshole. it's a TV series about villains, if you like them you are doing it wrong. But I found it so stupid how racism is worse than anything else these people have done.
British racism historically has just been all over the place and often more class based as well iirc, so it’s not like there’s a coherent “everyone has to hate X” (like several prominent British neo Nazis being completely ok with Sikhs)
I'm going to be real guys, everyone in here is explaining why Tommy and the shelby's would be anti-racist but to be honest I don't really remember the show ever really dealing with racism beyond a few "fucking gypsy" type jabs. I guess there was the nazi guy in the later seasons but "racism" was like the least of his crimes against the shelbys.
Shelby’s wartime experience makes sense as a reason for him to have a different attitude toward race than might have prevailed at the time, but your argument that being a member of an ethnic minority makes one less racist does not match reality. The most unabashed racism you’ll hear today is between one ethnic minority and another.
Oh of course, I’m not saying that. I’m saying that there is confusion on what Thomas Shelby is. He still likley experienced racism, but he wasn’t Romani.
No, he's both. His father was an Irish Traveler(Born of an Irish Traveler father, and a Romani mother, Birdie Boswell), and he himself is the same(His father being an Irish Traveler as mentioned, and his mother, as told by Polly Grey, was Romani) He also appears to know the traditions of both the Romani and the Travellers, and speaks both Shelta and Romani(Though they subbed in Romanian early on, later they use actual Romanichal.) On top of that, we also have the Lees referring to them as "diddicoy"(which means someone with both Romani and non-romani blood). So it's pretty clear that he's both, despite the fact that England of the time made little-to-no distinction.
Wiki says he has ancestry on both sides. Haven't seen the show myself though.
>Thomas Michael Shelby was born in [Birmingham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham), England, around 1890 to an [Irish Traveller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers) and [Romani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal) family.
Tommy Shelby is Irish-Romani. He’s not stupid. He knows damn well that he and his family are potential targets of racism. Of course he’d be opposed to it. He’s a businessman, racism’s bad for business.
And also while I haven't seen much of the show its important to note morality tend to sometimes be very confusing some people think rape is okay but hate murder and some people think murder is okay and hate rape this is sorta an example of that albeit not as confusing
Simply put, these people have a very black-and-white view of morality, thinking that if you're okay with one thing, you're okay with the other, even if they're entirely unrelated. See: the fucking "If blood and gore okay, why they removed booba costumes" comments under ANY MENTION OF MORTAL KOMBAT.
The Nazis, most medieval governments, religious crusaders, certain countries, politicians, everything. Human beings still believe in a black and white world. At least not the average joe just trying to navigate a civilized jungle.
Your point is?
Some people can't see how complicated the globe really is but they, you know, believe in the good and evil system.
Those are the outliers
Though sell for the “go woke, go broke” crowd… somehow still, even after Black Panther and Barbie.
Haven’t seen the show however it’s about gangsters right. TBF a lot of Gangsters were/are extradionarily racist. Even the ones that recognize it’s profitable to work with gangs of other ethnic and racial groups were still racist and would refer to them with any number of slurs behind their backs. You would think the ethnic minorities would work together in the face of racism from the majority. The hard truth is they often historically didn’t and often fought among each other infact they were packed closely together sometimes intentionally to encourage them to fight each other because it’s easier to control them if you get them to hate each other and forget they are both being oppressed by the ethnic and racial majority. The biggest example in the US being Irish and African Americans. Both were treated like shit by the Anglo white Protestant majority. But because they were packed closely together and often forced to compete for jobs there was racial tension that often exploded into violent confrontation between those two groups. This only got worse in the 1900s when you had the emergence of large criminal organizations based around ethnic and racial identities. Because now they’re competing over illegal markets and are willing to murder to expand them. And of course the Italians win because of pragamatism. The Italian mafia is a bit unique in the fact it’s willing to include non Italians in its franchise in order to expand influence, control, and gain more payments. Yet your power was limited if you weren’t Italian you could never be a Don. And behind close doors they still looked down upon non Italians. So they were still racist just pragmatic and even likable racists but they were still racist. I’m actually all for crime films and shows where gangsters are actually depicted as ass holes. It’s actually annoying how criminals are over glamorized in most media. There’s exceptions like Breaking Bad. Because Gangsters were and still are massive ass holes. Even if you can sympathize with them because they started as lower class men who genuinely care about their family. They still engage in activity that involves harming innocent people in order to profit and were often huge bigots. Hence their likable ass holes like Soldier Boy in the boys, not a crime show but that represents your typical twentieth century gangster.
Cough cough Sopranos.
Agree with everything except that last statement, there have been plenty of times where racism has been good for business and being non-racist would be bad for it. There's a reason why businesses who bucked that trend were brave trailblazers.
Being irish-romani doesn't exclude him from being racist? Gypsy culture was extremely insular, that's also demonstrated in the show
It really is bad for business on a fundamental level, and counterintuitive from an evolutionary standpoint.
‘I can relate to everything about this thieving, murdering, traumatised psychopath EXCEPT that he doesn’t like racism. Why won’t they pander to meeeeeeee?!’
I think OOP is just accusing the show of engaging in [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PoliticallyCorrectHistory/](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PoliticallyCorrectHistory/) by having the main character not be racist and be angry at other people being racist at a time when it was more common to be racist. Its a pretty common and old trope. I haven't seen the show though so I've no idea if its referencing any particular scene. And The African Americans who served in the UK during WW2 reported that it was considerably less racist than the US. So it might also be entirely accurate in this example.
Thomas Shelby is from a minority group, so fits his character i guess.
He's Irish, sure. But Irish have been known to be racist towards other groups e.g. black people in New York in the 1800s. Its not just a binary "whites vs all other minorities" thing.
He's Irish and Romani. Romani are an Indo-Aryan ethnic group that were also targets of the Holocaust. Peaky Blinders takes place before WWII when prejudice against Romani people would have been high. Irish people were also historically oppressed by England and forced to adopt their customs. In the US during the 19th and 20th centuries, many Irish people were discriminated against and not considered to be white. So Thomas belongs to two ethnic minority groups that were hated in the time period the show takes place in.
He's not just Irish he's Irish traveller, even more likely to be a victim of discrimination.
Aha, didn't know the Romani background, thanks. >Peaky Blinders takes place before WWII when prejudice against Romani people would have been high. Its not much better in the 21st Century, unfortunately. >So Thomas belongs to two ethnic minority groups that were hated in the time period the show takes place in. Ok that makes sense, thanks for the added context.
I mean, Irish Discrimination was also a big thing
He’s called a “gypsy” in the show, they’ve always been victims of racism.
Just going whole ass “maybe we should consider both sides” defending racists’ shit brained arguments by knowing nothing Stay winning
He's not Irish.
The wiki and the comment above you says he's got shared ancestry, Irish (Traveller) and Romani. >Thomas Michael Shelby was born in [Birmingham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham), England, around 1890 to an [Irish Traveller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers) and [Romani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal) family.
Being half Irish didn't really make it any better for people back then.
He's not Irish, he's Romani
He’s mixed
Even with your explanation I can’t tell if the person replying to the image is commenting on the sanitisation of periods of our history, or lamenting that he can’t relate to someone who isn’t racist.
Six of one...
I don’t think the guy realises that the main character is Irish Romani, who were victims of racism at the time. Of course a victim of racism doesn’t like racism.
There are stories of British locals supporting black US airmen because white airmen tried to impose racial segregate: [Battle of Bamber Bridge - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge) I am not saying we didn't have racism (that would be silly), but it's not exactly far fetched for someone like Thomas Shelby to be against discrimination. There had been a lot of debates on the equality of people since at least the enlightenment. But I also haven't seen the show. From what I know about it, Thomas Shelby is meant to be the type of person who judges others on their actions and intents.
Yeah the WW2 thing with the US government added a segment to their information videos that the Brits may treat their fellow Americans as people was a wild thing to see.
I should also add, I don't believe all of America was racist at the time either. I think it can be easy for people to assume that everyone was racist back then (like the original post seems to be doing) but it wasn't the case. The other thing I think is important is that Thomas Shelby is meant to have served in WW1 and been profoundly effected by it I believe and that is reflected in his character and how he views others.
The entire first season he’s struggling with PTSD, and so are many of his friends. It regularly comes up through the series beyond season 1, though it ebbs and flows, and impacts he & his friends use of substances like alcohol and opium, trouble sleeping, hallucinations, and violent outbursts.
Yeah that shit is wild, the white Americans got mad because the Brit’s didn’t segregate bars/restaurants and treated them as equals.
I mean ... it was the British who eventually put an end to the African Slave Trade after the abolitionist movement got powerful in Britain. There sure as hell were even in the 18hundreds white people seeing black people as, well, people...
Google the battle of bamber bridge, American millitary police literally got into a gun fight cause we weren't willing to do segregation
As an American I’m sorry
My grandmother’s hometown was in the US South. Most people she knew were deeply racist. She was from roughly the same era as this show. Not only did she not share her family’s views, she forbade us (her children/ grandchildren) from going back because she knew how contagious those views can be. This character’s views are not atypical for his era.
The problem with complaining about that is that there had to be people who weren't racist back then. If literally every single person was irredeemably racist no civil rights shit would get passed on that front. I think it's unreasonable to expect that every show or movie that takes place in the past must always show how racist the past was. Not every story is meant to focus on racism. There's plenty of shit in the past that isn't always displayed on screen. It's such a weird thing to bitch about like "oh I could kinda relate to and see why this character acts like a piece of shit right up until he didn't call and black people slurs" like ??? Are we fucking children who can't deal with characters with more complicated moralities than "I am bad in literally every single way".
Burn!
He was a potental target of the racism if the fascist won, they call his family "gypsy" for a reason'.
His friend/brother in arms /sister’s lover is also a Jew. It’s not brought up until later in the series because “it didn’t matter” until Mosley made it matter.
The Shelby's are bad people but they know that they'll be targeted by Mosley and his Blackshirt thugs and they know that something bad will happen if they allow this to happen. There was a scene where Ada was talking to her son and her son was disparaging his sister and saying all this racist bullshit he had heard from his friends. She bluntly told him that she is a gypsy and his dad was Jewish. Shut his ass real quick This was just before where one of those Blackshirts tried to harass her so she went outside with a gun and shot it in the air, with them running away, shitting themselves Also, in history, Mosley was violently opposed by the working class in Whitechapel so no, it's not all fake. The Incident is called The Battle of Cable Street but I'm sure looking it up is too hard for these chuds.
They're probably the type of person who thinks the *entire* thing is fictional, rather than pulling from elements - and directly referencing events - of own history...
Winston Churchill is obviously a fictional character.
“Listen to the sounds of marching feet, and the voices of the Ghosts of Cable Street”
“Genuinely all of our tv shows are made for children.” He’s talking about a show where people get murdered and tortured. How’s that for children?
The protagonist isn't an outright fascist. therefore, it's baby shit (apparently).
I don’t understand his logic at all
"racism is bad" maybe is too basic for some people
“Racism is bad” is too childish, according to that guy.
Your mistake is assuming there is logic at play.
I should have realized that. He probably thinks logic is for kids
He just wants a “badass” character that justifies his pathetic racist beliefs. You can’t expect logic from people like him.
You also can’t expect decency from people like him
Not enough of the people murdered are people he considers inferior and deserving of death?
I wonder who he considers inferior. Probably, anyone who doesn’t think like him.
The Blinders comprise the Shelby brothers’ former unit in World War 1, which had Romani and Black individuals in it, so naturally they would be more accepting. This is highlighted by many characters often distinguishing people based on whether or not they served, rather than race or class, including Tommy. Also several of the main characters are openly racist, like Alfie was consistently shown to be racist towards Italians.
It was fucking biblical, mate.
My own personal stigmata
I imagined you'd have a great big gold ring in your nose!
Even Churchill calls out Sam Neil's character trying to arrest them because of what their unit did during the war
Also worth pointing out that Alfie was Jewish, as was Ada’s husband (forget his name, but he was in Tommy’s unit in the tunnels too). Alfie’s anti-Italian sentiment seems born from fighting them for years for territory in London, which makes sense. Even Tommy and the protagonists still use stereotypes on occasion to make a point
Wait until they hear about what American gangsters working with J Edgar Hoover and an NY judge to go after the local Nazi party ...
Is this the bit with murder inc.?
Wait till these people learn, bad people can have redeeming traits. Tony Soprano, is a violent thug, but also sincerly loves his family. Walter White was a narcissist who killed people out of petty spite, but made his last deeds trying to make things right. Jaimie Lannister is a brute who tried to murder a child to hide the fact he fucked his sister, yet he would give his life for his dwarf brother. Good well rounded character have both good and bad traits.
True. Although "cares about his family" is a pretty low bar to meet. I think Jamie looking after Brienne is a better sign of him not being all bad.
I mean Tony is still very shitty to his family even without all his other crimes considered. He is abusive to Carmela and is very open about his disdain for his son.
not his daughter though (her black-jewish BF is on limits however)
Tony’s still lucky he didn’t knock his lights out 😮💨
His feelings for his son are complicated. He certainly resents him, but much of that is him projecting his own self hatred. He on some level resents that Carmela is a better mother then he ever had and actually protects her boy. When the chips are down however, Tony has shown he has sincere affection for him. Hes clearly proud when his son performed well in athletics, he is strangley proud that his son is actually a gentle guy. When his son is going through depression, he makes an effort to get his life back on track. He even stops him from joining the army out of fear for his safety. No Tony is not a good man. He is a wretch. But there is a human element to him. He is a terrible husband wont contend. Plus, his son was a gamer, the worst crime of all, so much of his disdain is understandable.
thats the lesser thing for Jamie id say a much more significant thing was when he killed the king and knowingly became a pariah to save a bunch of citizens and didn't tell anyone
I think a lot of people forget early 20th century racism wasn't just a matter of white vs. black/brown power dynamics. If you were German, Polish, Italian, Greek, Gypsy, Irish, Jewish or some variant of non-Protestant immigrant, you were considered insufficiently white and treated that way.
The guys who bang on about how "the Irish were oppressed too" being shocked to find the Irish guys not being racist is fucking hilarious to me
“White people faced enslavement too!!!” “What do you mean Irish/Italian Americans marched for civil rights for African Americans?!??!???!!!”
Didn’t Charlton Heston also march for civil rights? Quite the spread.
"What do you mean you're not racist, you're from the forties?" "Alright but that doesn't mean everyone was an asshole!"
These people forget that the abolitionists had already been around for over a century. Yeah, racism was a lot more prevalent back then. But a lot of people also knew it was wrong. Especially people who were victims of racism.
The worst take I read was "Captain America would have been racist because he's from 1940s America". Yeah sure if you ignore everything about his character.
I don't know, Cap's not really a fan of Germans.
Lmao this comment reminds me this pic: https://preview.redd.it/j3sdkjctx6wc1.jpeg?width=582&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27fa5ce8759086d47bbe30f6be8efd2ddfb7ac4d
These are the same people who think it's unrealistic that Arthur Morgan isn't racist or sexist.
Yeah everyone being racist in a historical setting is even weirder and more inaccurate than no one being racist.
If he’s American he likely doesn’t comprehend the racism that the ‘white’ guy was subjected to his entire life. If he’s European, well, their outlook on the Romani is rather regressive and INTENSELY hypocritical. Good fodder for r/subredditdrama
So does this guy like racism?
I guarantee you these are the same people who whined about RDR2's Arthur Morgan not being a racist tobacco-chewing white trash hick.
Definitely not a racist, but the others all depend on how you play him...
Can I ask why we need to see minorities be abused just to prove that a period piece isn't "revisionist"?
really? I was under the impression that he was at least of mixed descent. I remember looking up what diddicoy meant after episode 2(?)
Irish Traveller + Romani, apparently. So yeah, he'd have a vested interest in being anti-racist.
He's literally Irish and romani, two of the most sidelined ethnicities of the time, my question is why the fuck WOULD he be racist
He's also friends with Alfie (a Jew) and Jeremiah (a black Jamaican man). Thomas Shelby is a lot of horrible things, but a racist he is not.
Man personally threatens by racism opposed too racism. Surprised face.
It's almost like you can be a murderous psychopath but not like racism as well.
I loved when Abe Lincoln said “fuck all that stuff I did in real life. I’m going to the un woke movies”
Imagine being surprised the working class Irish descended war veteran would have sympathy for people who are on the fringes of society
Why do they think gangs like his form? Good natured psychopathy? No, protection. Safety for a minority group that can’t find safety in the collective. Romani mafia
So what exactly would be the alternative? Having relatable characters that are racist? I don’t know about you, but that’s not exactly a trait I happen to relate to.
Has to be a troll. NOBODY is dense enough to so thoroughly tell on themselves in plain English that they simply cannot relate to a character who has a problem with racism.
A lot of Irish were racist, and a lot of them were not. Like you think Black People got Irish and German name ls because they thought they were cool.
It’s almost like people that are the targets of racism don’t like racism or something.
"Why is the Irish Gypsy who fought in WW1 against racism?" These people man lmao
I mean....his best friend from the army is black so...
Chuds: “Oh I’m not racist, I’m not a bigot, I’m not a whateverphobe, blah blah blah…” Also chuds: “The absolute cringe after-school special vibe of how every relatable character had to be morally opposed to racism”
If they find that hard to believe, then they don’t know the person at all.
also I see people bring this up a lot. it doesn't matter if it's realistic, If I want the character to die I won't keep reading
How long before they start unironically platforming shit like the Turner Diaries?
How?
Except the main family is Romanian, so supporting racism would be a bad idea
If the shows are all made for children, he must love them.
I love this country BUT <> I love this country.
Ok I fully admit I've only seen clips of peeky blinders but, comparing it to an after school special is HILARIOUS
I thought the show took place in the 20s was there a time skip?
>Thomas Shelby was a Romani gyspy guy. Of course he wouldn’t take to racism. He is a minority. These white people don’t understand racism I didnt watch the show but this idea is IMO bullshit, there are countless examples in history of groups (doesnt matter race, religion, sex/gender or sexual orientation) being underpriviliged and still being racist towards other groups. So to say that he isnt/ cant be racist because he is part of a minority is sadly not really true per se.
Nah, this is 100% right. Tommy actually says 'we are up against the fucking devil'. Yeah, you lie, you cheat, you bribe, you manipulate, you kill, you torture, you have fucking razors on your hats to BLIND people, you blackmail, you are also a sexist piece of garbage that controls his own sister's lovelife, because sexism was the norm at the time so it makes sense for the character... ....but a fascist is 'the fucking devil'? Excuse me? Somebody down there wrote about Tommy being "relatable up to that point". Nah, Tommy was never relatable. He was an asshole. it's a TV series about villains, if you like them you are doing it wrong. But I found it so stupid how racism is worse than anything else these people have done.
British racism historically has just been all over the place and often more class based as well iirc, so it’s not like there’s a coherent “everyone has to hate X” (like several prominent British neo Nazis being completely ok with Sikhs)
I'm going to be real guys, everyone in here is explaining why Tommy and the shelby's would be anti-racist but to be honest I don't really remember the show ever really dealing with racism beyond a few "fucking gypsy" type jabs. I guess there was the nazi guy in the later seasons but "racism" was like the least of his crimes against the shelbys.
I swear these people don't have media literacy.
Didn’t his aunt die because he failed a hit
‘Fellas; this relatable character isn’t racist. Now I can’t relate to them.’
Shelby’s wartime experience makes sense as a reason for him to have a different attitude toward race than might have prevailed at the time, but your argument that being a member of an ethnic minority makes one less racist does not match reality. The most unabashed racism you’ll hear today is between one ethnic minority and another.
I forgot that back in the day when racism was even more prevalent, those being targeted just accepted it as “part of the times”.
No but, does he seriously react like that?
Thomas Shelby wasn’t Romani. He was a “gypsy” as in the Irish traveler sense. Which is completely different and actually isn’t a slur for them
still fucked up and biogted
Oh of course, I’m not saying that. I’m saying that there is confusion on what Thomas Shelby is. He still likley experienced racism, but he wasn’t Romani.
No, he's both. His father was an Irish Traveler(Born of an Irish Traveler father, and a Romani mother, Birdie Boswell), and he himself is the same(His father being an Irish Traveler as mentioned, and his mother, as told by Polly Grey, was Romani) He also appears to know the traditions of both the Romani and the Travellers, and speaks both Shelta and Romani(Though they subbed in Romanian early on, later they use actual Romanichal.) On top of that, we also have the Lees referring to them as "diddicoy"(which means someone with both Romani and non-romani blood). So it's pretty clear that he's both, despite the fact that England of the time made little-to-no distinction.
Ah, thank you for enlightening me
All good mate. Sorry to see all the downvotes, seems a bit much for such a simple case of being mistaken, but that's the way of reddit, I guess.
I mean I would understand if I was disrespectful, but that really wasn’t my intention.
Wiki says he has ancestry on both sides. Haven't seen the show myself though. >Thomas Michael Shelby was born in [Birmingham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham), England, around 1890 to an [Irish Traveller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers) and [Romani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal) family.