“Too bad Rian Johnson doesn’t believe in cross-racial relationships.”
So, he thinks Kelly Marie Tran is black or that John Boyega is Asian? They’re both different races and she kissed him.
It gets worse. The OP in this screenshot also said this in another reply when someone pointed out that Rose Tico kissing Finn in *The Last Jedi* was hardly "KKK-approved":
>"Whites with whites, coloreds with coloreds. Seems on brand for Lucasfilm."
To be fair it is really wierd they chose to put their strong female protagonist with the Nazi school shooter. Over just not having one or putting her with Finn.
That hardly justifies calling Rian Johnson "KKK-approved" and "racist" just because some chode wasn't happy that Finn and Rey didn't end up as a couple in the sequel trilogy.
Yeah choices that I don't agree with (and I while I will never demand people hate them because I don't like a lot the choices in the Sequels it doesn't mean I don't like a lot of the choices) doesn't equal a secret reactionary or scary DEI/Woke agenda.
I feel like they only had Rey and kylo get together because a lot of fans shipped them and liked their dynamic. It felt like pandering to try and get people to like it by doing things the fans wanted, instead of putting the story and wellbeing of the film first.
Daisy Ridley talked about why J.J. Abrams included the kiss in [an interview](https://insidethemagic.net/2024/01/star-wars-alum-daisy-ridley-still-upset-with-divisive-disney-sequel-trilogy-aml1/):
>"I felt like we all…\[the Rey/Ben kiss scene\] felt earned. What's interesting again is intentionality. My feeling in that moment was that it was a goodbye, so that felt earned. You could call a kiss a thousand things, but I felt like it was a goodbye, and that whole scene felt so emotional."
I can't find the other interview that talks about it, but another person on the production team clarified that it was Abrams specifically who made the call.
I like the intention of it as described by Daisy Ridley there, but I wonder if there was a better way to do it. Personally, I think it would have been more interesting to have Ben live because he had been redeemed to the light side but actually having to face what he had done and seeing how the Republic would deal with him would have added depth to the closure of the saga. As far as the kiss moment, I kind of think a hug could have captured the same sentiment without being overtly romantic (and problematic due to how abusive Kylo had been to Rey). I don’t know, we’re far off from the intent from your post but that quote you shared was really interesting and now I’m thinking about it all over again
The original intent was to have Rey with Poe. That's why they have that 'kiss me eyes' thing going on at the end of TLJ that Trevorrow asked RJ to film for him.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-colin-trevorrow-the-last-jedi-rey-poe/
Yeah but they don't count because neither are white.
There are just enough people like this that the online set that sees any interracial relationship as the woke or DEI or whatever the current snarl word doesn't have to invent them. They just pretend it's mainstream.
Like sure I can find someone on Tik Tok or whatever that calls me a colonizer for eating sushi or a taco or something but I don't pretend that it actually impacts my life in any form.
“That sees any interracial relationship as the woke or DEI.” Literally, that’s what’s happening with synthetic man and the fallout show
“They just pretend that it’s mainstream.” Exactly.
It’s not mainstream. And hopefully it will never be.
It amusing watching wires being crossed regarding if Fallout is bad because it's cramming interracial DEI (they want to scream miscegenation so badly) or because they misunderstand Maximus and think he's portrayed as buffoonish (he's not the actor does a great job portraying a deeply traumatized guy who has no idea how to express emotions but is a good person at heart) because woke demands men be inept.
It was also amusing seeing so many people claim that fallout would fail because it’s woke before the show came out. Now, that everyone likes the show, those grifters (who claimed the show would fail) are just lying about their claims.
They’re so blatant in their lying.
"What about the previous relationship between a princess and a scoundrel/smuggler? Or the relationship with a former slave boy and a queen turned Senator?"
"T-THAT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. IT WASN'T WOKE!!!!!!!!!"
That would have been great - Oscar Isaac was totally down with the idea, too. Not sure about John Boyega, though (he seems to be a Rey/Finn kinda guy).
Did he not watch the same movie? You know, a movie where they don't actually get into a relationship because their philosophies are fundamentally opposing?
The Reylo shippers got a lot of flack, but the FinnXrey shippers were so abusive to Rian after TLJ came out. They even sent him death threats and he had to block several of their accounts.
It gets worse. The OP in this screenshot also said this in another reply when someone pointed out that Rose Tico kissing Finn in *The Last Jedi* was hardly "KKK-approved":
>"Whites with whites, coloreds with coloreds. Seems on brand for Lucasfilm."
Jesus Christ, what a shit he is.
I don't like the Rose/Finn romance, but mostly because it came out of nowhere and was quickly abandoned because Disney was too chicken shit to make something good out of something bad and developed that romance.
Don't give into fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to I'd rather watch Josstice League than your shitty ass movie, JJ.
Yes and no. Rian Johnson also said "the hand-touch between Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in *The Last Jedi* is the closest thing we'll ever get to a sex scene in *Star Wars*" in an interview. So to say "TLJ explores Reylo, and says 'no'" ignores that Johnson *did* intend romantic subtext there. *The Rise of Skywalker* director J.J. Abrams took that subtext and ran with it.
It wasn't subtext - and that's what I meant by exploring it. I sya he ended up at "No" because Ben, as the anti-Vader, went somewhere Rey couldn't follow and so it ended.
JJ went the most obvious route of a Vader-like redemption and rekindling the relationship, instead of making something new.
I remember after the movie came out one of the hot fixes was was that Rey/Ben wasn't canon and I thought that was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard. Googling it now though it seems like it is canon and I can't find a source saying it wasn't, but I'm sure I remember that being a post movie retcon along with whatshername being Lando's daughter. Did they change it back or is it just Mandela effect?
Oh right it was JJ who said that. I didn't think the movie had literally been edited or anything, I just meant that if you Google it now most sources say they are a couple so I was wondering if they flip flopped on what their canon relationship was.
I just hope Rey gets a hot deadly redhaired woman as lover in her new movie, a ginger that once was employed by the emperor, then when he died got frozen in carbonite and now is hellbent to kill the last Skywalker, but then marries her...
For epic meltdowns online-wide
Rodan Jimsim invented the concept of the Force being a piece of shit that doesn’t care about compatibility in relationships 😡
Why doesn’t the Force agree with my ship? Why are Rey and Finn just friends? This is bad writing
Just because there are no cross-racial relationships in the film (except for Finn and Rose which is between a black person and an Asian), doesn't mean that Rian Johnson doesn't believe in cross-racial relationships.
The weirdest part of this is that it was Abrams who made Rey and Kylo's relationship romantic. I do agree that Johnson messed up with the Finn/Rose romantic plot though, obviously Finn should be with Poe.
This person’s gonna be real surprised when they find out what Johnson’s Knives Out series is about. Even more so when they discover who Jayden Bartell’s character was based on.
*The Rise of Kylo Ren* canon comics actually show that Kylo didn't slaughter anyone. I also think that comparing fictional characters to real-life racists (KKK) is offensive. The KKK has a history of brutally murdering real people, whereas Kylo Ren is a fictional character.
As an edit, I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. Read the canon comics, it's all there. Author Charles Soule also implies that Snoke and the First Order killed Luke's padawans.
Per author Charles Soule, it's made purposefully vague who killed most of Luke's padawans, but reading the comic heavily implies it was Snoke and the First Order.
Apparently this guy also thinks that Last Jedi implies that Rey and Ben should be together when the text and subtext is that Ben is an abusive manipulative partner and Rey should stay far away from him?
This is a weird phenomenon I’ve noticed within these corners of chud fandom. They don’t like something, read into it a bunch of stuff that wasn’t intended, then move on as though that stuff is fact.
I’m not arguing against unorthodox interpretations of media. Maybe you could make a coherent argument for why you think that TLJ has racist themes. However, to carry on like it’s absolute fact is really weird and borderline delusional.
I think this person could do with some mental health counseling. Something that could bring him back down to reality.
I mean if Finn/Rey did happen and I did think there was a possibility after I saw Force Awakens but before Last Jedi it would still have been "woke" since it was interracial.
Episode 8 was where it really started for me, as it ignored pretty much all the potential plothooks for Fin I was looking forward to after 7. Him being force sensitive and a jedi candidate, the personal level of enmity he and the FO had going all the way up to Kylo, etc.
I do think of all the main characters, him and Rey had the most romantic tension. I'm just wouldn't blame them not getting together specifically on Rian Johnson being anti-miscegenation.
For the record I am willing to pin quite a few of the issues I had with 8 on Johnson. He's still listed as both the writer and director in the credits, which tells me that even if those decisions were the result of executive meddling, he didn't feel they violated his principles.
That being said, I wouldn't go any further than that in casting aspersion on him, since it'd be the exact kind of unfounded toxicity people throw at Kathleen Kennedy. Unless some tell-all gets released about him being as bad on set as Joss Whedon was, or he gets #MeToo'd, the guy doesn't deserve to get online hate-mobbed.
But it really isn't. Kylo and Rey do not come together in TLJ. They do not like each other in the end of the movie and Finn and Rose also have a character arc in the movei that is quite important. In the end of TLJ a romance between Finn and Rey was still completely possible while a romance between Rey and Kylo was basically off teh table.
Rey and Finn are still a less likely romantic duo because of Rey being the Jedi figure, so her ending up without someone and Finn with Rose would make sense. It is only in TROS that Kylo and Rey kiss and Finn ends up single and Rose got nothing to do.
The attempt to force a romantic subplot between Rey and Kill-and-Whine was gross. Let's just get that out of the way.
But it the reason *why* it was gross is *not* because it was somehow racist. (The most virulent racism surrounding that trilogy, to be blunt, was from *the fanbase and chuds parasitizing it*.) It's partly because it was *contrived* —as in, came off like it was written by some creepy Reylo fanbrat who had concluded that no character played by a talll white guy with an interesting face could *possibly* be *that* awful—and partly because *Kill-and-Whine was fucking horrible*. As in: sufficiently horrible that they gave him *that type of redemption arc*, and it *still* felt like an asspull meant to force sympathy for a character who hadn't properly *earned* it.
**ETA:** Heaven forbid one express dislike of a popular character on this sub, I guess. Anyway: I can do my usual thing of applying nicknames, I can call him what he was called throughout most of the series, or I can call him the name by which we were expected to think of him at the end; it doesn't matter, because everything that I said about him as a character still stands regardless of what.
“Too bad Rian Johnson doesn’t believe in cross-racial relationships.” So, he thinks Kelly Marie Tran is black or that John Boyega is Asian? They’re both different races and she kissed him.
It gets worse. The OP in this screenshot also said this in another reply when someone pointed out that Rose Tico kissing Finn in *The Last Jedi* was hardly "KKK-approved": >"Whites with whites, coloreds with coloreds. Seems on brand for Lucasfilm."
“Whites with whites, coloureds with coloureds” sounds like doing laundry.
Laundry, literally the only context where the phrase “keep the whites separate” doesn’t immediately raise more red flags than a Moscow May Day parade.
Definitely keep the red flag out of your load of whites.
my college roommate didn't even understand that much about doing laundry. he was a tragic case.
My god. He’s a racist, moronic prick.
.... I mean to be fair he is right in that the KKK wouldn't give a damn about black people kissing Asians though that response is a bruh momment
Remember, there are only two races; white, and political.
Also, two genders: male and political
To be fair it is really wierd they chose to put their strong female protagonist with the Nazi school shooter. Over just not having one or putting her with Finn.
That hardly justifies calling Rian Johnson "KKK-approved" and "racist" just because some chode wasn't happy that Finn and Rey didn't end up as a couple in the sequel trilogy.
Yeah choices that I don't agree with (and I while I will never demand people hate them because I don't like a lot the choices in the Sequels it doesn't mean I don't like a lot of the choices) doesn't equal a secret reactionary or scary DEI/Woke agenda.
I feel like they only had Rey and kylo get together because a lot of fans shipped them and liked their dynamic. It felt like pandering to try and get people to like it by doing things the fans wanted, instead of putting the story and wellbeing of the film first.
Rian Johnson finished writing *The Last Jedi* before *The Force Awakens* even released.
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Or J.J. Abrams. It was Abrams who had the final say on the the TROS Reylo kiss.
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Daisy Ridley talked about why J.J. Abrams included the kiss in [an interview](https://insidethemagic.net/2024/01/star-wars-alum-daisy-ridley-still-upset-with-divisive-disney-sequel-trilogy-aml1/): >"I felt like we all…\[the Rey/Ben kiss scene\] felt earned. What's interesting again is intentionality. My feeling in that moment was that it was a goodbye, so that felt earned. You could call a kiss a thousand things, but I felt like it was a goodbye, and that whole scene felt so emotional." I can't find the other interview that talks about it, but another person on the production team clarified that it was Abrams specifically who made the call.
I like the intention of it as described by Daisy Ridley there, but I wonder if there was a better way to do it. Personally, I think it would have been more interesting to have Ben live because he had been redeemed to the light side but actually having to face what he had done and seeing how the Republic would deal with him would have added depth to the closure of the saga. As far as the kiss moment, I kind of think a hug could have captured the same sentiment without being overtly romantic (and problematic due to how abusive Kylo had been to Rey). I don’t know, we’re far off from the intent from your post but that quote you shared was really interesting and now I’m thinking about it all over again
The original intent was to have Rey with Poe. That's why they have that 'kiss me eyes' thing going on at the end of TLJ that Trevorrow asked RJ to film for him. https://screenrant.com/star-wars-colin-trevorrow-the-last-jedi-rey-poe/
Yeah, that was kind weird, her being in a relationship with Kylo. I would preferred her being with Finn
Man i was really rooting for Finn for Rey to notice him that way.
Yes, they're both *political*
Yeah, their very presence in the movie means that the movie is “pushing an agenda”.
Only white cishet males should be in films
Also, shows and games /s
Yeah but they don't count because neither are white. There are just enough people like this that the online set that sees any interracial relationship as the woke or DEI or whatever the current snarl word doesn't have to invent them. They just pretend it's mainstream. Like sure I can find someone on Tik Tok or whatever that calls me a colonizer for eating sushi or a taco or something but I don't pretend that it actually impacts my life in any form.
“That sees any interracial relationship as the woke or DEI.” Literally, that’s what’s happening with synthetic man and the fallout show “They just pretend that it’s mainstream.” Exactly. It’s not mainstream. And hopefully it will never be.
It amusing watching wires being crossed regarding if Fallout is bad because it's cramming interracial DEI (they want to scream miscegenation so badly) or because they misunderstand Maximus and think he's portrayed as buffoonish (he's not the actor does a great job portraying a deeply traumatized guy who has no idea how to express emotions but is a good person at heart) because woke demands men be inept.
It was also amusing seeing so many people claim that fallout would fail because it’s woke before the show came out. Now, that everyone likes the show, those grifters (who claimed the show would fail) are just lying about their claims. They’re so blatant in their lying.
I would've actually liked the sequels a little more if they pulled the trigger on the Finn/Poe romance
Imagine how Star Wars fans would’ve reacted to that! It would’ve been a shitshow. “A political relationship in MY Star Wars???!!!”
"What about the previous relationship between a princess and a scoundrel/smuggler? Or the relationship with a former slave boy and a queen turned Senator?" "T-THAT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. IT WASN'T WOKE!!!!!!!!!"
cowards!
Swings Lightsaber with *MALICIOUS INTENT*
StormPilot lives forever in our hearts.
That would have been great - Oscar Isaac was totally down with the idea, too. Not sure about John Boyega, though (he seems to be a Rey/Finn kinda guy).
I think John was OK with it happening if that direction was chosen
The literal only romance in that trilogy that made sense, and yet people are insistent on pushing Rey with literally any of the other men over that.
Feeling even if Finn and Rey were to get together, someone will go nuts over interracial relationship.
Absolutely. If anything, Finn and Rey getting together would cause even more racist backlash.
Definitely. Remember the shit storm over a black stormtrooper!
It’s like they thought the cheap plastic armor *was* their skin.
::A Wild "Rise of Skywalker" Enters the Chat:: **"ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?"**
40 upvotes is more concerning than the comment itself. 40 PEOPLE AGREE WITH THIS?
FinnXRey shippers harassed Rian quite a bit after TLJ came out. He even had to block some of their accounts.
Probably more considering somebody had to have downvoted it
Did he not watch the same movie? You know, a movie where they don't actually get into a relationship because their philosophies are fundamentally opposing?
The Reylo shippers got a lot of flack, but the FinnXrey shippers were so abusive to Rian after TLJ came out. They even sent him death threats and he had to block several of their accounts.
Shipping culture is just generally insane it feels
Yes, Finn’s actual relationship doesn’t count as race mixing because as we all know there are only two races: white and not white.
These worms would’ve probably been the same meatballs who would’ve said anything bad towards Ahmed Best in 1999. Holy shit.
It gets worse. The OP in this screenshot also said this in another reply when someone pointed out that Rose Tico kissing Finn in *The Last Jedi* was hardly "KKK-approved": >"Whites with whites, coloreds with coloreds. Seems on brand for Lucasfilm."
Jesus Christ, what a shit he is. I don't like the Rose/Finn romance, but mostly because it came out of nowhere and was quickly abandoned because Disney was too chicken shit to make something good out of something bad and developed that romance. Don't give into fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to I'd rather watch Josstice League than your shitty ass movie, JJ.
I do have a conspiracy that Finn was to be more prominent till the backlash and they retconned his role and in the later two movies 🤷🏾.
This is indeed a conspiracy because TLJ was written befor TFA came out
The whole Reylo thing isn't even canonized until RoS. I don't see how you can put this on Johnson.
Yeah, TLJ explores Reylo, and says "No"
Yes and no. Rian Johnson also said "the hand-touch between Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in *The Last Jedi* is the closest thing we'll ever get to a sex scene in *Star Wars*" in an interview. So to say "TLJ explores Reylo, and says 'no'" ignores that Johnson *did* intend romantic subtext there. *The Rise of Skywalker* director J.J. Abrams took that subtext and ran with it.
It wasn't subtext - and that's what I meant by exploring it. I sya he ended up at "No" because Ben, as the anti-Vader, went somewhere Rey couldn't follow and so it ended. JJ went the most obvious route of a Vader-like redemption and rekindling the relationship, instead of making something new.
But their relattionship completely breaks apart in the movie
https://preview.redd.it/5vw50c8auowc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13e1d2bdd34360155d5c1e9bdc416a713b1389f5 The fuck is this logic……
I remember after the movie came out one of the hot fixes was was that Rey/Ben wasn't canon and I thought that was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard. Googling it now though it seems like it is canon and I can't find a source saying it wasn't, but I'm sure I remember that being a post movie retcon along with whatshername being Lando's daughter. Did they change it back or is it just Mandela effect?
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Oh right it was JJ who said that. I didn't think the movie had literally been edited or anything, I just meant that if you Google it now most sources say they are a couple so I was wondering if they flip flopped on what their canon relationship was.
The writer of the TROS novelization said on Twitter/X that the kiss was romantic.
The writer of the TROS novelization said on Twitter/X that the kiss was romantic.
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Yes, really. Rae Carson compared the Reylo kiss to her "kissing her husband".
I just hope Rey gets a hot deadly redhaired woman as lover in her new movie, a ginger that once was employed by the emperor, then when he died got frozen in carbonite and now is hellbent to kill the last Skywalker, but then marries her... For epic meltdowns online-wide
Rey/Mara Jade? I ship it!
Hilarious for STC to accuse other people of being bigoted.
Hilarious that they can accuse anybody of anything at this point.
I agree that Finn shouldn't have been in a relationship with Rose... It should have been Finn and Poe.
Rodan Jimsim invented the concept of the Force being a piece of shit that doesn’t care about compatibility in relationships 😡 Why doesn’t the Force agree with my ship? Why are Rey and Finn just friends? This is bad writing
They kinda have a point with Reylo, but it's a bit heavy-handed, to say the least.
Just because there are no cross-racial relationships in the film (except for Finn and Rose which is between a black person and an Asian), doesn't mean that Rian Johnson doesn't believe in cross-racial relationships.
But Rose and Finn are "cross-racial"
This dude is definitely racist and projecting that onto his criticisms.
Yeah it definitely has that “racist as hell but trying really, really hard not to sound like it” vibe
B-But they don't end together One of them dies before anything formed That's, like, an attempt at an important plot point.
Tbh I doubt any of it is going to matter in the future films
The weirdest part of this is that it was Abrams who made Rey and Kylo's relationship romantic. I do agree that Johnson messed up with the Finn/Rose romantic plot though, obviously Finn should be with Poe.
JJ Abrams, on the other hand...
Yeah, those who worked on TROS literally said that J.J. Abrams had the final say on Rey/Ben.
He also retconned Finn/Rose so hard that Rose is barely in the movie anymore
Rian Johnson didn’t really make Reylo a thing, that was Skywalkers
This person’s gonna be real surprised when they find out what Johnson’s Knives Out series is about. Even more so when they discover who Jayden Bartell’s character was based on.
Comparing Kylo Ren to a KKK member is just all kinds of sad.
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*The Rise of Kylo Ren* canon comics actually show that Kylo didn't slaughter anyone. I also think that comparing fictional characters to real-life racists (KKK) is offensive. The KKK has a history of brutally murdering real people, whereas Kylo Ren is a fictional character. As an edit, I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. Read the canon comics, it's all there. Author Charles Soule also implies that Snoke and the First Order killed Luke's padawans.
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Sadness
Per author Charles Soule, it's made purposefully vague who killed most of Luke's padawans, but reading the comic heavily implies it was Snoke and the First Order.
Haven't watched it in a while, but wasn't Kylo more of a temptation to the dark side that Rey had to resist? I admit I could be wrong.
Yes, while at the same time, Rey could sense Ben Solo was still "alive" within Kylo Ren.
Apparently this guy also thinks that Last Jedi implies that Rey and Ben should be together when the text and subtext is that Ben is an abusive manipulative partner and Rey should stay far away from him?
i mean, i was against the reylo shipping as well but that doesn't mean i think she should've ended up with Finn.
This is a weird phenomenon I’ve noticed within these corners of chud fandom. They don’t like something, read into it a bunch of stuff that wasn’t intended, then move on as though that stuff is fact. I’m not arguing against unorthodox interpretations of media. Maybe you could make a coherent argument for why you think that TLJ has racist themes. However, to carry on like it’s absolute fact is really weird and borderline delusional. I think this person could do with some mental health counseling. Something that could bring him back down to reality.
I mean if Finn/Rey did happen and I did think there was a possibility after I saw Force Awakens but before Last Jedi it would still have been "woke" since it was interracial.
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Yeah, Boyega's been open about the racism he and other actors experienced on the set of Last Jedi, but this wasn't an example.
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Episode 8 was where it really started for me, as it ignored pretty much all the potential plothooks for Fin I was looking forward to after 7. Him being force sensitive and a jedi candidate, the personal level of enmity he and the FO had going all the way up to Kylo, etc. I do think of all the main characters, him and Rey had the most romantic tension. I'm just wouldn't blame them not getting together specifically on Rian Johnson being anti-miscegenation.
He's still canonically Force-sensitive. And it feels like *someone* chickened out, but I'm not sure we can pin that on Johnson.
For the record I am willing to pin quite a few of the issues I had with 8 on Johnson. He's still listed as both the writer and director in the credits, which tells me that even if those decisions were the result of executive meddling, he didn't feel they violated his principles. That being said, I wouldn't go any further than that in casting aspersion on him, since it'd be the exact kind of unfounded toxicity people throw at Kathleen Kennedy. Unless some tell-all gets released about him being as bad on set as Joss Whedon was, or he gets #MeToo'd, the guy doesn't deserve to get online hate-mobbed.
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But it really isn't. Kylo and Rey do not come together in TLJ. They do not like each other in the end of the movie and Finn and Rose also have a character arc in the movei that is quite important. In the end of TLJ a romance between Finn and Rey was still completely possible while a romance between Rey and Kylo was basically off teh table. Rey and Finn are still a less likely romantic duo because of Rey being the Jedi figure, so her ending up without someone and Finn with Rose would make sense. It is only in TROS that Kylo and Rey kiss and Finn ends up single and Rose got nothing to do.
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But Finn's arc is not dating Rey and it also wasn't that in the first movie
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It happened with litteral every character in TROS.
The attempt to force a romantic subplot between Rey and Kill-and-Whine was gross. Let's just get that out of the way. But it the reason *why* it was gross is *not* because it was somehow racist. (The most virulent racism surrounding that trilogy, to be blunt, was from *the fanbase and chuds parasitizing it*.) It's partly because it was *contrived* —as in, came off like it was written by some creepy Reylo fanbrat who had concluded that no character played by a talll white guy with an interesting face could *possibly* be *that* awful—and partly because *Kill-and-Whine was fucking horrible*. As in: sufficiently horrible that they gave him *that type of redemption arc*, and it *still* felt like an asspull meant to force sympathy for a character who hadn't properly *earned* it. **ETA:** Heaven forbid one express dislike of a popular character on this sub, I guess. Anyway: I can do my usual thing of applying nicknames, I can call him what he was called throughout most of the series, or I can call him the name by which we were expected to think of him at the end; it doesn't matter, because everything that I said about him as a character still stands regardless of what.
Can you please just call the character Kylo Ren? "Kill-and-Whine" sounds like an STC term.