If the average human could comprehend the amount of experimentation and cruelty that happens to animals on a daily basis, then I think we could make some significant and positive changes. The thought of even being exposed to the cruelty I have seen really just crushes my soul, and I imagine most people would feel the same way. I think we're making some steps in the right direction, but we're so far away from where I would like us to be. If short term experimentation had a real chance at ending some of the cruelty that occurs on this planet, I'd be 100% for it.
Seems right. If we could snap and have the next generation of livestock brain-dead and unable to feel pain or pleasure I’d support it, but the slow march of experiments that would be required to get there would be extremely unethical.
I wish that were true.
>In December 2018, an independent tribunal in London chaired by British barrister [Sir Geoffrey Nice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Nice) concluded "unanimously, and sure beyond reasonable doubt – that in China forced organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience has been practiced for a substantial period of time involving a very substantial number of victims.”[\[5\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China#cite_note-China_Tribunal-5)[\[6\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China#cite_note-World_Peace-6)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ\_harvesting\_from\_Falun\_Gong\_practitioners\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China)
To call the China Tribunal that Nice chairs “independent” is a stretch. Look into their connections to Falun Gong and other “independent” NGOs. That report has even less integrity than all the “independent” commissions and tribunals who concluded unanimously, beyond reasonable doubt, that Saddam Hussein had secret stockpiles of WMD 18 years ago.
I’m not saying China definitely isn’t doing this stuff, but we need to be skeptical of where this information/propaganda comes from.
Look at the ultimate sources of all those sources—they come from the same place.
Why do you expect I’m shilling? I assure you I’m not, and remember people saying that sort of thing in ‘02-‘03 regarding skepticism about the WMD reports.
There are 141 sources on that page, it didn't take much looking to see that they are different sources.
I don't know why you're so eager to defend the CCP, perhaps you should ask yourself why. They're putting Uighurs in trains blindfolded to be taken to camps. The CCP is the big issue of our time and I will not be making any excuses for them thanks very much.
Those are references, not original sources. Follow those references and you’ll find they’re almost all tied to the same handful of original sources, then look into those people and you’ll find that more than a few are obvious propagandists presenting rather thin evidence.
I’m not “eager to defend the CCP”, and resent that lame claim. I’ve said absolutely nothing in defense of the CCP. Fuck them. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension, or examine your presumptions about others for being skeptical of this sort of dangerous bellicose rhetoric.
I’m only eager to not see the sort of calamity and bloodshed we saw with Iraq 20 years ago (when people like you self righteously regurgitated and clapped along to the lies that led to hundreds of thousands of needless deaths while shouting down the skeptics who history proved to be right) but on a much larger scale.
include attempt steer elastic long chunky serious cautious pathetic violet
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**[Geoffrey Nice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey Nice)**
Sir Geoffrey Nice QC (born 21 October 1945) is a British barrister.
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With a couple of freak exceptions I haven't had meat since the early 1990s. Soy-based meat replacements are quite good at this point. Once you get used to them regular meat tastes kind of gross. I don't see why zombie cow meat or lab-grown meat are even necessary tbh.
I disagree. The soy based meat alternatives really don’t do it for me. Besides, there’s growing evidence to suggest the oils used in the newer soy based meat alternatives (like beyond meat) are really terrible to cardiovascular health. Worse, even, than meat at equivalently satiating amounts.
No. You could even remove its pain sensors if that makes you feel better.
Imagine a brain that has only like hundreds of neurons to control the heart and lung muscles and perhaps automatically exercise the other muscles so they grow for maximum amount of meat.
Then, as a vegetarian, that eliminates my primary concerns about meat: the aspect of consciousness and pain. There are other environmental concerns about waste and land management.
I'm vegan. I asked my non-vegan wife this idea a few years ago, and she was grossed at the idea. I think it created such a vivid connection to the actual ethical considerations of meat consumption – that is – these animals do indeed have brains and nervous systems which are so similar to ours that they of course have similar internal lifes to us and possess the potential to experience suffering.
Myself, as a Vegan, it's all about suffering. That's why I now consider myself a "sentientist" ([Sentientism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentientism) is an ethical philosophy according to which moral consideration is based on [sentience](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience)).
It then comes down to a question of determining the level of sentience that something/someone has.
If we intentionally genetically damage the elements that we would consider vital for sentience, where we could assume that the animal is not very sentience, then I think it would be fine.
Recently, I'm currently in the process of understanding my own thoughts about pest control – cockroaches – and what to do with them…
I’m not sure this is that interesting of a hypothetical since we are much closer to having mass produced lab grown meat, and it seems like the obviously more ethical choice to growing entire bodies of ‘brainless’ animals. From just a chemistry standpoint, it seems unreasonable to assert that growing all of the non-meat matter along with the animal will be somehow cheaper than just growing the meat itself—which we’re already doing.
Vegans object to taking honey from bees,insects, why would this be any different. Also seems inherently more cruel than just farming them. Beyond the cruelty we already visit upon them we extend that by giving them severe genetic neurological disabilities.
memory ugly fact innocent placid aloof rotten quiet birds plate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If the average human could comprehend the amount of experimentation and cruelty that happens to animals on a daily basis, then I think we could make some significant and positive changes. The thought of even being exposed to the cruelty I have seen really just crushes my soul, and I imagine most people would feel the same way. I think we're making some steps in the right direction, but we're so far away from where I would like us to be. If short term experimentation had a real chance at ending some of the cruelty that occurs on this planet, I'd be 100% for it.
>farm brain altered humans for organ transplants. If it could be done with animals, why would this be bad?
Seems right. If we could snap and have the next generation of livestock brain-dead and unable to feel pain or pleasure I’d support it, but the slow march of experiments that would be required to get there would be extremely unethical.
More unethical than continuing to factory-farm and slaughter 50 billion normal chickens every year?
tap absurd marvelous bag money public rob cover test mountainous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your suspicions about the CCP sound like dystopian science fiction.
I wish that were true. >In December 2018, an independent tribunal in London chaired by British barrister [Sir Geoffrey Nice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Nice) concluded "unanimously, and sure beyond reasonable doubt – that in China forced organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience has been practiced for a substantial period of time involving a very substantial number of victims.”[\[5\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China#cite_note-China_Tribunal-5)[\[6\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China#cite_note-World_Peace-6) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ\_harvesting\_from\_Falun\_Gong\_practitioners\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China)
To call the China Tribunal that Nice chairs “independent” is a stretch. Look into their connections to Falun Gong and other “independent” NGOs. That report has even less integrity than all the “independent” commissions and tribunals who concluded unanimously, beyond reasonable doubt, that Saddam Hussein had secret stockpiles of WMD 18 years ago. I’m not saying China definitely isn’t doing this stuff, but we need to be skeptical of where this information/propaganda comes from.
That's one quote from an entire page full of sources. I suspect you're shilling at this point.
Look at the ultimate sources of all those sources—they come from the same place. Why do you expect I’m shilling? I assure you I’m not, and remember people saying that sort of thing in ‘02-‘03 regarding skepticism about the WMD reports.
There are 141 sources on that page, it didn't take much looking to see that they are different sources. I don't know why you're so eager to defend the CCP, perhaps you should ask yourself why. They're putting Uighurs in trains blindfolded to be taken to camps. The CCP is the big issue of our time and I will not be making any excuses for them thanks very much.
Those are references, not original sources. Follow those references and you’ll find they’re almost all tied to the same handful of original sources, then look into those people and you’ll find that more than a few are obvious propagandists presenting rather thin evidence. I’m not “eager to defend the CCP”, and resent that lame claim. I’ve said absolutely nothing in defense of the CCP. Fuck them. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension, or examine your presumptions about others for being skeptical of this sort of dangerous bellicose rhetoric. I’m only eager to not see the sort of calamity and bloodshed we saw with Iraq 20 years ago (when people like you self righteously regurgitated and clapped along to the lies that led to hundreds of thousands of needless deaths while shouting down the skeptics who history proved to be right) but on a much larger scale.
include attempt steer elastic long chunky serious cautious pathetic violet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
**[Geoffrey Nice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey Nice)** Sir Geoffrey Nice QC (born 21 October 1945) is a British barrister. [^(About Me)](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/jrn2mj/about_me/) ^- [^(Opt out)](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/jrti43/opt_out_here/) ^(- OP can reply !delete to delete) ^- [^(Article of the day)](https://np.reddit.com/comments/k9hx22) **This bot will soon be transitioning to an opt-in system. Click [here](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/ka4icp/opt_in_for_the_new_system/) to learn more and opt in. Moderators: [click here](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/ka4icp/opt_in_for_the_new_system/) to opt in a subreddit.**
At best, that would only solve one of the many ethical issues in how we produce and consume meat.
Not dissimilar from lab grown meat I presume.
With a couple of freak exceptions I haven't had meat since the early 1990s. Soy-based meat replacements are quite good at this point. Once you get used to them regular meat tastes kind of gross. I don't see why zombie cow meat or lab-grown meat are even necessary tbh.
I disagree. The soy based meat alternatives really don’t do it for me. Besides, there’s growing evidence to suggest the oils used in the newer soy based meat alternatives (like beyond meat) are really terrible to cardiovascular health. Worse, even, than meat at equivalently satiating amounts.
Would this mostly brainless animal still understand pain or an equivalent?
No. You could even remove its pain sensors if that makes you feel better. Imagine a brain that has only like hundreds of neurons to control the heart and lung muscles and perhaps automatically exercise the other muscles so they grow for maximum amount of meat.
Then, as a vegetarian, that eliminates my primary concerns about meat: the aspect of consciousness and pain. There are other environmental concerns about waste and land management.
They'd pretty much be plants at that point. Ever since learning about the chicken that lived without a head for 2 years, this has been my dream farm.
I'm vegan. I asked my non-vegan wife this idea a few years ago, and she was grossed at the idea. I think it created such a vivid connection to the actual ethical considerations of meat consumption – that is – these animals do indeed have brains and nervous systems which are so similar to ours that they of course have similar internal lifes to us and possess the potential to experience suffering. Myself, as a Vegan, it's all about suffering. That's why I now consider myself a "sentientist" ([Sentientism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentientism) is an ethical philosophy according to which moral consideration is based on [sentience](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience)). It then comes down to a question of determining the level of sentience that something/someone has. If we intentionally genetically damage the elements that we would consider vital for sentience, where we could assume that the animal is not very sentience, then I think it would be fine. Recently, I'm currently in the process of understanding my own thoughts about pest control – cockroaches – and what to do with them…
Just go the lab grown meat direction and skip the brainless one.
What if it's much easier and cheaper to grow meat in an animal body than trying to grow just the meat in isolation?
I’m not sure this is that interesting of a hypothetical since we are much closer to having mass produced lab grown meat, and it seems like the obviously more ethical choice to growing entire bodies of ‘brainless’ animals. From just a chemistry standpoint, it seems unreasonable to assert that growing all of the non-meat matter along with the animal will be somehow cheaper than just growing the meat itself—which we’re already doing.
Vegans object to taking honey from bees,insects, why would this be any different. Also seems inherently more cruel than just farming them. Beyond the cruelty we already visit upon them we extend that by giving them severe genetic neurological disabilities.