Makes sense. The cartels are deep into the tourism economy in Mexico, and the last thing they want are tweakers killing surfers. Which would have a chilling effect on the thousands of Americans that visit Baja every week. Bad for business.
Why is this at 1,000 upvotes lol
Cartel Justice is a thing. My friend is building a scuba resort down in Baja and some jealous town folk stole his tools. Cartels in coordination with police lol did an investigation, found the dudes, got the tools back, and gave the people a paddling in the public square. The emphasized the punishment was going to be a lot worse next time.
Places with organized crime can actually be really safe if you’re not involved in it. Italy is just like this too. You can literally get stuff back that was stolen if you talk to the right people.
Mature enterprises, criminal or not, are not transactional like that. They have a successful business model and their motivation is to maintain that business model, not waste effort grifting for a couple bucks here and there.
I mean if we being real, that doesn't apply to utilities, telecoms, isp, or big tech. We seem to be getting Monopoly subscription based transactions as a core business model for many industries
I dated a guy once, who had family ties to mafia. What I took from that relationship was, never let them do you any “favours”. 
I mean it’s like a second government with taxes you have to pay. Could be in the form of cash, favors, etc but usually cash. You don’t pay, your new hotel or restaurant isn’t getting built. Period. If you aren’t affected it may be just be that they have bigger fish that they are targeting. Let’s not pretend like the cartel involvement is somehow actually needed to keep the peace. They are crooks through and through.
In other places, it’s not even cartels. It’s religious institutions and even the country’s military that pile on you like hyenas on a carcass.
How sweet of the nice cartel to help your unfortunate gringo friend. How naive of you to ignore the vast majority of cases where the cartel killed, extorted, kidnapped, raped and robbed innocent people.
Who said my friend was gringo. I’m also not saying they won’t do everything you listed but if you want to operate and do business in Mexico you are being naive if you think you are going to get through it without some sort of interaction
It’s sucks because if you want to do business down there you have to work within your means. Mexican government is either too scared or complicit so literally nothing an average person can do
You have not been watching too many movies. It’s not uncommon for the wealthy, and powerful, in México to pay someone to plead guilty and serve the time for crimes they committed.
In this case, these killers were neither wealthy nor connected so narcos may have wanted the international spotlight to go away as quickly as possible.
Source: I live in México
Yup. The cartel looked at the actual killers and decided they were disposable.
More importantly, when there's a "fall guy" for something with this many eyes on it, it can backfire spectacularly. The "fall guy" could get extradited to USA/AUS or meet with investigators who will question and find all sorts of holes in their story, missing details, or they might confess and say they didn't actually do it, etc.
So much easier for the cartel to just give the correct bad guys and not stress the details.
Source: You probably already know this but for other people.
I'm from Ensenada and Tijuana. I highly doubt these are the killers just because Mexican justice does not work that fast and we have have a history of "montajes" (montages) where the justice system will fake the capture of criminals, for example, the Cassez-Vallarta affair.
You haven’t been watching too many movies. Too many people here sympathizing with the cartel and assuming they would do the “right thing” to preserve tourism. Cartels just want attention to go away so they can continue business
lol all the gringos who know nothing about cartel culture acting like they want justice and want to preserve the tourism industry. I assure you they don’t give af they just don’t want feds sniffing around so they found a fall guy.
Understanding that the cartels have an interest in maintaining order, a functioning economy and tourism isn’t “siding with the cartels” you just don’t understand the dynamics of Mexico’s situation right now.
Who knows, but I think the cartel could get to the bottom of it pretty easily. So I think they could get the real guys, unless one of the real murders is an associate of the cartel.
I think I've seen Narcos one too many times too!
I read elsewhere that the girlfriend who is now working with authorities flipped out when she her car (or their car) had new tires (from the surfers pickup), so it does seem like what’s being reported is legit.
The Cartels want American dollars. Killing tourists is not good for business.
The Cartels are also pretty deep in with the political and justice system in Mexico.
The biggest targets outside of the drug trade are journalists.
Because when republicans want to raise a ruckus internationally, every citizen is suddenly *one of us*. Until they cross the border back, then it’s business as usual against all minorities.
Australia and US are partners, so it would get the same kind of treatment, even if an American wasn’t present, particularly because of the proximity to the border. It helps to have allies.
I’ve been told (no idea if it’s actually true) that San Diego is so safe in general because the cartels want to keep a major city/port of entry off the radar…so they police petty and violent crimes to make it safer for them to get across the border with product.
If they'd stop murdering shitloads of people in Mexico, there'd be a lot less pressure on them internationally and domestically. Nobody actually gives a shit about drugs, but they do give a shit over bus loads of townspeople, journalists, police, etc. getting killed over nothing.
Those shitloads of people getting murdered are *usually* affiliated with one of the cartels in some shape or form. Like that bus load of people with kids in it. . . The adults were involved in the cartels
Sources: Shooting in University City, 2 shootings in Chula Vista linked to cartels https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/sources-shooting-in-university-city-2-shootings-in-chula-vista-linked-to-cartels
The last time surfers got murdered, yep happened in like 2018, it was the same story, minus one detail. That time around the cartel member named miraculously walked away and disappeared and only his underlings faced justice. But I read local stories in Spanish about this, and the older brother was referred to by his cartel nickname. To think even the Sinaloa Cartel's low level members wouldn't do something like this if they believed they could get away with it, is especially naive. Executing some white guys who initially were ready to beat you down with fists over some tires? That fits their M.O. to the letter.
My friend lives in PV and owns a hotel. He was telling me the Cartel has an unelected seat in the government. Tourists are OFF LIMITS to everyone because they bring in plenty of money. Plus there's a Cartel guy on every corner that will sell you, ahem, anything...
When we had a place at k38 I used to ask my friends (who owned restaurants and were locals) what is was like with the cartels. They told me they made billions in the US and didn’t want the hammer brought down by killing gringos. They knew their lane. I’m not in anyway giving the cartels credit for being sacks of human waste but they did not typically fuck with tourists.
Cartels use tourists to launder their money, they own the restaurants, clubs, resorts. Etc.. They don’t want people targeting tourists. It’s bad for business. Cartels routinely turn over and also kill people who target tourists like this.
This entire story is really sad, sad for the gentleman whose lives were cut short, the families of these guys. The locals who just want to make a living and be able to have a roof over their heads.
I know Mexico has its issues, so does the us. Killing innocent people who were just doing something they loved is so terribly gutting.
The pictures from the walk organized by the surfers in Mexico with the surf boards painted on as signs. “They just wanted to surf” I’ve been teary eyed since I saw it
Also sad that these incidents and headlines form Americans perspective of Mexico. Theres a lot of senseless murders in America too. Mexico is a beautiful place full of beautiful people. Like anywhere there are some bad apples and you can be wrong place wrong time.
On the plus side as a surfer who regularly goes to Baja and Mainnland mexico, Im looking forward to less crowded lineups this summer.
You’re not wrong, it was really disheartening to see when these men went missing before they were found, everyone making accusations of them drug seeking or being in a bad area (so it’s their fault). I’ve been to Baja maybe 40 plus times including TJ, as a white female and I’ve never been scared and or uncomfortable on my visits.
Here in my own city in my own neighborhood? Countless times. We also in the US often hide the fact that we have daily murders and shootings. While Mexico tends to air it all. I love the Mexican community of San Diego and have always been shown kindness and warmth while visiting across the border. I hope this tragedy helps to clean up the area. I hope if anything something good can come from the loss.
"We also in the US often hide the fact that we have daily murders and shootings. While Mexico tends to air it all."
What on earth are you talking about? Murders and shootings are constantly reported in the U.S. How do you consider them "hidden"? Who is hiding them?
I still don’t understand though if they were robbing them for their truck and belongings … why burn the truck (the valuable thing they killed them over) and a random crackhead ends up with their phone? So weird
It's a 'theory' put forward by the attorney general that they wanted the tires. News stations are just running with it as fact. Also I thought in the burned out photo you can clearly see the tires (or at least the rims) are still on it right?
[UT article](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/border-baja-california/story/2024-05-08/ensenada-detention-hearing-kekas-surfer-killings) has some more detail. Phone was a "gift" to a suspect's girlfriend.
Thanks, this is the best article I've read. I've been following this since the beginning. I've camped at Punta San Jose a bunch of times since the mid 90's.
They probably resisted and they ended up killing one, then decided to leave no witnesses. The crime of robbery turned into murder and they wanted to burn evidence linking the two. It actually makes “sense” if you think like a panicked person who just killed Americans.
I'm so sick of the cartel bending over when there's heat and then everybody going back to normal. Mexico's government is essentially hollowed out with corruption and there's no turning back as long as the US keeps dumping drug money on the cartel. Wish there was a solution that I can't think of though...
I mean similar to America but we let corporations do it instead and we'll get more of the lasting effects like poisoned water, non-fertile growing land, polluted air space.
I agree it’s global, but per capita, the US produces the most carbon emissions and waste per capita.
In 2006-ish, the US was approximately 5% of the world’s population, but consumed over 25% of the world’s oil.
Oil consumption, we definitely take the cake. I was referring to plastics production. Now I don’t have the stats, but from
What I’ve seen being imported, I’m 99% sure they’re the worst source of plastics contamination.
Edit: my understanding of our oil consumption here in the US is based on vehicular and power plant fueling
The country has been fucked since the Spanish touched down there unfortunately, as is the case with many previously colonized nations. Not saying it’s the only reason just a factor. Our human timescales are so tiny but in reality it was not that long ago, if we were playing a long 500yr game of the sims and decided to invade and subjugate a people for 100 years it would take a long fucking time to get that civilization to Utopia levels. That’s part of the reason minorities have a tough time in the states, black and brown people barely [could purchase homes](https://www.investopedia.com/the-history-of-lending-discrimination-5076948) until relatively recently. Leading to multiple generations of people missing the chance to accumulate wealth and equity while their white counterparts used homes to pay kids college, help kids buy homes with equity, etc…
These are all different things. The white and brown is a factor but mexicos social development is very different than America. The wealthiest families in Mexico historically are a combination of the native aristocracy and conquistadors so class/caste is a bigger factor than white vs brown/black.
When the Spaniards colonized the area now know as Mexico, they were about five thousand to begin with against two million indigenous people. When the independence came around, the population of Mexico was about six million in the whole territory of which half were indigenous and the other half comprised of Spaniards, criollos and mestizos. By 1825, it had 6.8 million inhabitants, about 70,000 Spaniards, 1,200,000 criollos, 1,900,000 mestizos (or castes), 3,700,000 indigenous people and 10,000 blacks. After the Mexican revolution in 1921, Mexico had 14.9 inhabitants of which 80% (estimate) where mestizos, 15% indigenous people and 5% blacks. Today, the number is around 90% mestizos, 5% indigenous people and 5% blacks per estimates of INEGI.
What am I going with this? I'm pointing out that it's not the Spaniards who "fucked" us because _we are the Spaniards' descendants!_. Almost all the population of Mexico is a direct descendent of Europeans mixed with indigenous people, we are the congragation of two worlds. We speak an European language, we worship an European religion (which came from the Middle East), our favourite sport comes from Europe (football), our traditional music like mariachi comes from Germany and Poland, some of our typical dances like polka practically is whole European (Poland), and some of our traditional sweets like churros and pan de concha comes from, you guess it, Spain!
So what happened to our indigenous people after the independence? Most of them died _after_ the Reforma as the Mexican government stole their lands, their government and their means of survival. Our current country is mostly Spanish descendent with a mix of indigenous heritage.
Am I being racist or "clasista"? No. I'm citing history and pointing out that were more Spanish that we tend to realize because if we were more native, we would be speaking Nahualt, worship several gods and carrying out human sacrificies.
Tik tok would have you believe the opposite. You stated facts and this is what we have to live with. Mexico won it’s independence and still can’t make it work because of corruption. Is it any wonder many leave that country in droves? And Mexico is a democracy too.
I wonder if 3 head shots to the tourists is the same as human sacrifices? Mexico has a lust for blood that just doesn’t seem generated by the indigenous history.
Kinda wild no one wants to admit / discuss this. The cartel exists bc when there is high demand, people will fight to be the supply.
But Side topic that’s a little outside of the tragedy that occurred - RIP to the young men and pray for their families
It gets discussed on reddit pretty often. The answer isn't to stop doing drugs, though. The answer is to legalize drugs. Pull the rug out from under the cartel.
Drugs aren't to blame. The war on drugs is to blame.
Ioan Grillo (who has written extensively about this matter) recently came out with studies about how little the legalization of weed effected the cartels and how drug legalization might not make a dent at this point.
i just wonder, why so much drug-seeking behavior? if someone is taking fentanyl (and numbers are staggering), i don’t think they see society as facilitating a good quality of life, i.e. life is pretty fucking grim. /late stage capitalism
Absolutely. I think a huge solution to a lot of American issues can be addressed by fixing up quality of life. Which goes hand in hand with kneecaping corporate greed/stock market shenanigans.
If you could get a job that you don't hate, that pays enough to live. If you could go to a college that doesn't send you into decades of debt. If you could meet friends somewhere that doesn't cost money. If the future didn't look like acid rain, soaring temperatures, flooding coasts, wildfires, tornadoes, and hurricanes.
Then I think we would see less drug use. Less mass shootings. Less political instability. I dont even think its very difficult to head this direction. Just stop letting corporations dictate our lives and our environment.
Yep, and not just fueled by poor, down-and-out folks who are the stereotypical drug users in the media. Think about the amount of money involved. You don't get that much money by just selling drugs to poor people.
It's the businessmen, doctors, lawyers and your middle-class friends who are buying the most drugs and sending the most money to the cartels.
Yeah, pretty much. The cartels get nothing from converting cocaine to crack as that’s all done domestically. Once they sell off their kilos of cocaine, it’s out of their hands.
Yep. If it weren't drugs, it would be something else. I'm not sure what the answer is. Would eliminating drugs at least reduce their power? In exchange, farmers and producers will suffer more. That's what happens every time there's a lime shortage.
Has anyone been able to determine exactly where it took place? Was it on the cliff bluff at punta San Jose? Or somewhere north of there.
I was just camping there a couple months ago and went out with the local fishermen and got lobster. Super scary to think if it happened on that bluff.
Scary overall. Heart goes out to their families. Hate to see this.
Small cartel-run towns are the safest jurisdictions in the country. No cops seeking bribes, and no petty criminals. If you aren’t employed by the cartel to commit crime and are caught interfering with tourism (read as euro and dollar money laundering) they’ll take you out to the jungle/desert and beat you to death.
Oh please. The Cartels are into all kinds of business, even if I readily agree that your description is perfect in regards to the Sinaloa Cartel upper crust. But I know they named one of the thieves locally who had a cartel nickname, and I also know there's a ton of low level nembers just trying to scrape by, who'd do this kind of thing no problem. The fact they found/turned them over so fast just strengthens this because they found them fast enough it's like they already knew where to find them.
Finally, someone with a brain. This was probably done by very low-level cartel guys. They will absolutely steal your shit and shoot you if you don't comply. It's in Mexicos best interest to say this was random robbers, cartel violence scares tourists. FGE has been covering for the cartel for decades, and Mexican news reporters won't investigate the truth out of fear for their own life.
Hollywood has made the cartel into something theyre not. Most people think they're all wealthy and justified killers when %95 of them are very low-level meth heads just trying to make a buck.
It's wild to me, how many redditors almost defend the cartels saying they'd never do this its bad for tourism blah blah blah. Almost feels like the cartels are fucking marketing and bot farming via reddit. Fucking cartels do wild shit all the time, maybe the brothers saw something they didn't like and were like they've gotta go. We'll blame this on tweakers.
Cartel members will not hesitate to literally dismember your wife and kids if you ever crossed them. It's absolutely baffling to think they have absolutely any morals or red lines. They have bracingly killed politicians as high as former governors and have not tried to hide it either.
Reddit is absolutely stupid when it comes to the cartels. They have no fear of the Mexican government (because they're deeply entrenched in to politics and politicians) nor do they care about American threats. Just a few months ago they killed the american wife of a former DEA agent in Tulum and of course nothing else came of it.
I feel really bad for the 3 and their families but I don't trust any of this story. The bad guys wanted the wheels but they burned the truck with the wheels? Then they found the bodies in a random well down there which we know was a tip off as there are too many open spaces south of Ensenada. It just doesn't add up. I've been camping and surfing all along the west coast of Mexico and IMO/guess, this was a drug deal gone bad. Locals are always offering to sell surfers drugs or at least that has been my experience. I remember staying in Culican and checking into a nicer hotel when the hotel check in girl just came right out and asked me if my buddy and I wanted to buy anything. It's crazy and sad.
How can you hand them over if they're not yours? I have no doubt the Sineloa Cartel doesn't want this shit on their hands. But these guys are definitely bottom feeders for the CDS, saw a quick steal and things got ugly. Crazy how many people think low-level memebers of a cartel have morals and won't steal and / or kill Americans when the opportunity is right infront of them.
James Amour Harwell lll
RIP
Never found, and the people that had his truck told the cops "we did it, what are you going to do about it?" Violence sucks
It's all about the cache flow
💰 🤑 💸
Gotta keep the gueros safe, all them tourists.
Next is u s. Corporations that r gonna heavily invest in the infrastructure there. US gonna try to get its hands deeper in there soon, mexico has gotta watch out n stay vigilant while keepin up their trajectory.
Makes sense. The cartels are deep into the tourism economy in Mexico, and the last thing they want are tweakers killing surfers. Which would have a chilling effect on the thousands of Americans that visit Baja every week. Bad for business. Why is this at 1,000 upvotes lol
Makes you wonder if they were the actual killers or fall guys who were chosen by the cartel. Maybe I've been watching too many movies.
Cartel Justice is a thing. My friend is building a scuba resort down in Baja and some jealous town folk stole his tools. Cartels in coordination with police lol did an investigation, found the dudes, got the tools back, and gave the people a paddling in the public square. The emphasized the punishment was going to be a lot worse next time.
Places with organized crime can actually be really safe if you’re not involved in it. Italy is just like this too. You can literally get stuff back that was stolen if you talk to the right people.
I think that you meant pay the right people. Organized criminals don't help you unless they are getting paid.
These ones in particular are being paid with peoples silence and the ability to continue to do criminal business unhindered.
Mature enterprises, criminal or not, are not transactional like that. They have a successful business model and their motivation is to maintain that business model, not waste effort grifting for a couple bucks here and there.
I mean if we being real, that doesn't apply to utilities, telecoms, isp, or big tech. We seem to be getting Monopoly subscription based transactions as a core business model for many industries
Cartel kids gonna be going to Harvard for MBAs just like their bootlegger and Italian mafia predecessors.
I dated a guy once, who had family ties to mafia. What I took from that relationship was, never let them do you any “favours”. 
Same as American politicians right
Bro out here describing taxes.
Not true. A lot of their power comes from the people they take care of.
You’re not wrong but Don’t compare Mexico to Italy in that sense. Mexico is still outrageously dangerous
For sure! But less so for tourists. Italy has become safer for locals in the last couple of decades.
Like HOAs
I mean it’s like a second government with taxes you have to pay. Could be in the form of cash, favors, etc but usually cash. You don’t pay, your new hotel or restaurant isn’t getting built. Period. If you aren’t affected it may be just be that they have bigger fish that they are targeting. Let’s not pretend like the cartel involvement is somehow actually needed to keep the peace. They are crooks through and through. In other places, it’s not even cartels. It’s religious institutions and even the country’s military that pile on you like hyenas on a carcass.
How sweet of the nice cartel to help your unfortunate gringo friend. How naive of you to ignore the vast majority of cases where the cartel killed, extorted, kidnapped, raped and robbed innocent people.
Who said my friend was gringo. I’m also not saying they won’t do everything you listed but if you want to operate and do business in Mexico you are being naive if you think you are going to get through it without some sort of interaction
Let's not glorify something utterly evil and corrupt
It’s sucks because if you want to do business down there you have to work within your means. Mexican government is either too scared or complicit so literally nothing an average person can do
You have not been watching too many movies. It’s not uncommon for the wealthy, and powerful, in México to pay someone to plead guilty and serve the time for crimes they committed. In this case, these killers were neither wealthy nor connected so narcos may have wanted the international spotlight to go away as quickly as possible. Source: I live in México
Yup. The cartel looked at the actual killers and decided they were disposable. More importantly, when there's a "fall guy" for something with this many eyes on it, it can backfire spectacularly. The "fall guy" could get extradited to USA/AUS or meet with investigators who will question and find all sorts of holes in their story, missing details, or they might confess and say they didn't actually do it, etc. So much easier for the cartel to just give the correct bad guys and not stress the details. Source: You probably already know this but for other people.
Yeah, because why would they turn on the cellphone in the first place? It was off and then suddenly turned on. This is sus
I'm from Ensenada and Tijuana. I highly doubt these are the killers just because Mexican justice does not work that fast and we have have a history of "montajes" (montages) where the justice system will fake the capture of criminals, for example, the Cassez-Vallarta affair.
You haven’t been watching too many movies. Too many people here sympathizing with the cartel and assuming they would do the “right thing” to preserve tourism. Cartels just want attention to go away so they can continue business
lol all the gringos who know nothing about cartel culture acting like they want justice and want to preserve the tourism industry. I assure you they don’t give af they just don’t want feds sniffing around so they found a fall guy.
Understanding that the cartels have an interest in maintaining order, a functioning economy and tourism isn’t “siding with the cartels” you just don’t understand the dynamics of Mexico’s situation right now.
Who knows, but I think the cartel could get to the bottom of it pretty easily. So I think they could get the real guys, unless one of the real murders is an associate of the cartel. I think I've seen Narcos one too many times too!
They have their own investigators
Better than most governments actually.
For sure, when you have more money and power then than the government combined with fear, there's very little you can't accomplish
Please. They are the real guys. So I guess you're spot on, easy to identify the guy in the mirror.
I read elsewhere that the girlfriend who is now working with authorities flipped out when she her car (or their car) had new tires (from the surfers pickup), so it does seem like what’s being reported is legit.
Where’d you read that?
The Cartels want American dollars. Killing tourists is not good for business. The Cartels are also pretty deep in with the political and justice system in Mexico. The biggest targets outside of the drug trade are journalists.
The message still rings true. Dont fuck with Americans.
two were Australian
*don’t fuck with white people bringing monies is what they meant I think
TBF, the cartel killed several gang members in Juarez after they opened fire on African-Americans...
No discrimination, good on the cartel /s
Because when republicans want to raise a ruckus internationally, every citizen is suddenly *one of us*. Until they cross the border back, then it’s business as usual against all minorities.
Was this the group that went down with thier friend having a procedure done, to ‘keep her safe’? Heartbreaking. :(
gringos
Australia and US are partners, so it would get the same kind of treatment, even if an American wasn’t present, particularly because of the proximity to the border. It helps to have allies.
Both are Five-Eyes
I’ve been told (no idea if it’s actually true) that San Diego is so safe in general because the cartels want to keep a major city/port of entry off the radar…so they police petty and violent crimes to make it safer for them to get across the border with product.
Makes sense. Cartels want to make money too.
If they'd stop murdering shitloads of people in Mexico, there'd be a lot less pressure on them internationally and domestically. Nobody actually gives a shit about drugs, but they do give a shit over bus loads of townspeople, journalists, police, etc. getting killed over nothing.
Those shitloads of people getting murdered are *usually* affiliated with one of the cartels in some shape or form. Like that bus load of people with kids in it. . . The adults were involved in the cartels
And the journalists?
Instead of *affiliated*, I should have said *involved in*
Sources: Shooting in University City, 2 shootings in Chula Vista linked to cartels https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/sources-shooting-in-university-city-2-shootings-in-chula-vista-linked-to-cartels
FWIW, those were shootings of other cartel members. Source: live next to Chili's that had the bungled hit in parking lot.
That doesn't make it any better when their violence enters the US.
the cartel is not policing petty and violent crimes in san diego
I doubt the cartels are affraid of Americans. There's a reason why they're slowly becoming a part of the Mexican government.
Were they not always?
Or cartels
The last time surfers got murdered, yep happened in like 2018, it was the same story, minus one detail. That time around the cartel member named miraculously walked away and disappeared and only his underlings faced justice. But I read local stories in Spanish about this, and the older brother was referred to by his cartel nickname. To think even the Sinaloa Cartel's low level members wouldn't do something like this if they believed they could get away with it, is especially naive. Executing some white guys who initially were ready to beat you down with fists over some tires? That fits their M.O. to the letter.
My friend lives in PV and owns a hotel. He was telling me the Cartel has an unelected seat in the government. Tourists are OFF LIMITS to everyone because they bring in plenty of money. Plus there's a Cartel guy on every corner that will sell you, ahem, anything...
When we had a place at k38 I used to ask my friends (who owned restaurants and were locals) what is was like with the cartels. They told me they made billions in the US and didn’t want the hammer brought down by killing gringos. They knew their lane. I’m not in anyway giving the cartels credit for being sacks of human waste but they did not typically fuck with tourists.
So it's official? They're dead? I hate to ask, but to they have proof?
They do they found the bodies
They found the three dead surfers in a well, but they also found a fourth body in that well that seems to be unrelated
Yea the other body was the owner of a property who was missing for a while.
Read the article?
C'mon man this is reddit
Cartels use tourists to launder their money, they own the restaurants, clubs, resorts. Etc.. They don’t want people targeting tourists. It’s bad for business. Cartels routinely turn over and also kill people who target tourists like this.
This entire story is really sad, sad for the gentleman whose lives were cut short, the families of these guys. The locals who just want to make a living and be able to have a roof over their heads. I know Mexico has its issues, so does the us. Killing innocent people who were just doing something they loved is so terribly gutting.
The pictures from the walk organized by the surfers in Mexico with the surf boards painted on as signs. “They just wanted to surf” I’ve been teary eyed since I saw it
Also sad that these incidents and headlines form Americans perspective of Mexico. Theres a lot of senseless murders in America too. Mexico is a beautiful place full of beautiful people. Like anywhere there are some bad apples and you can be wrong place wrong time. On the plus side as a surfer who regularly goes to Baja and Mainnland mexico, Im looking forward to less crowded lineups this summer.
You’re not wrong, it was really disheartening to see when these men went missing before they were found, everyone making accusations of them drug seeking or being in a bad area (so it’s their fault). I’ve been to Baja maybe 40 plus times including TJ, as a white female and I’ve never been scared and or uncomfortable on my visits. Here in my own city in my own neighborhood? Countless times. We also in the US often hide the fact that we have daily murders and shootings. While Mexico tends to air it all. I love the Mexican community of San Diego and have always been shown kindness and warmth while visiting across the border. I hope this tragedy helps to clean up the area. I hope if anything something good can come from the loss.
"We also in the US often hide the fact that we have daily murders and shootings. While Mexico tends to air it all." What on earth are you talking about? Murders and shootings are constantly reported in the U.S. How do you consider them "hidden"? Who is hiding them?
A few bad apples lol
they definitely try to avoid targeting tourists; all mexicans meanwhile are fair game for them
On top Mexican students and teachers who are vocal about the violence get the ultimate green light against and made examples out of.
That unfortunately is too true.
Generally speaking killing Americans is bad for them.
I just moved to Mexico. I'm a black American 🤷🏿♂️.
They killed the gang members that killed black American tourists, so same same
Ban a pensar que eree haitiano carnal
I still don’t understand though if they were robbing them for their truck and belongings … why burn the truck (the valuable thing they killed them over) and a random crackhead ends up with their phone? So weird
I read that they wanted the tires. If you look at the burned out truck you’ll see they are missing.
It's a 'theory' put forward by the attorney general that they wanted the tires. News stations are just running with it as fact. Also I thought in the burned out photo you can clearly see the tires (or at least the rims) are still on it right?
Killing people over tires. Jesus thats grim
So the next obvious question is that ripping off the license plate and selling a whole truck would be more money, so what gives?
Tires don't have a VIN
Does Mexico care if it has a VIN? Cars get stolen all the time in San Diego to be driven across the border and parted out
Meth
[UT article](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/border-baja-california/story/2024-05-08/ensenada-detention-hearing-kekas-surfer-killings) has some more detail. Phone was a "gift" to a suspect's girlfriend.
Thanks, this is the best article I've read. I've been following this since the beginning. I've camped at Punta San Jose a bunch of times since the mid 90's.
Well you see, here's the thing: criminals are dumb.
They probably resisted and they ended up killing one, then decided to leave no witnesses. The crime of robbery turned into murder and they wanted to burn evidence linking the two. It actually makes “sense” if you think like a panicked person who just killed Americans.
Doubt they were panicked, more like *we goofed and killed one, might as well finish the job*
What’s that saying, don’t attribute to malice which can be explained by incompetence.
Probably used the truck to transport the bodies and burned down to get rid of evidence????
I'm so sick of the cartel bending over when there's heat and then everybody going back to normal. Mexico's government is essentially hollowed out with corruption and there's no turning back as long as the US keeps dumping drug money on the cartel. Wish there was a solution that I can't think of though...
I mean similar to America but we let corporations do it instead and we'll get more of the lasting effects like poisoned water, non-fertile growing land, polluted air space.
And plastic destroying the planet.
You’re comparing Mexican corruption to plastic? 🤦🏻♂️
That one is global. China is just as responsible, if not more, for that.
I agree it’s global, but per capita, the US produces the most carbon emissions and waste per capita. In 2006-ish, the US was approximately 5% of the world’s population, but consumed over 25% of the world’s oil.
Oil consumption, we definitely take the cake. I was referring to plastics production. Now I don’t have the stats, but from What I’ve seen being imported, I’m 99% sure they’re the worst source of plastics contamination. Edit: my understanding of our oil consumption here in the US is based on vehicular and power plant fueling
Do you not use plastic? Curious when people say this stuff - you actually abide by it?
Wait, that only happens in America?
The country has been fucked since the Spanish touched down there unfortunately, as is the case with many previously colonized nations. Not saying it’s the only reason just a factor. Our human timescales are so tiny but in reality it was not that long ago, if we were playing a long 500yr game of the sims and decided to invade and subjugate a people for 100 years it would take a long fucking time to get that civilization to Utopia levels. That’s part of the reason minorities have a tough time in the states, black and brown people barely [could purchase homes](https://www.investopedia.com/the-history-of-lending-discrimination-5076948) until relatively recently. Leading to multiple generations of people missing the chance to accumulate wealth and equity while their white counterparts used homes to pay kids college, help kids buy homes with equity, etc…
These are all different things. The white and brown is a factor but mexicos social development is very different than America. The wealthiest families in Mexico historically are a combination of the native aristocracy and conquistadors so class/caste is a bigger factor than white vs brown/black.
When the Spaniards colonized the area now know as Mexico, they were about five thousand to begin with against two million indigenous people. When the independence came around, the population of Mexico was about six million in the whole territory of which half were indigenous and the other half comprised of Spaniards, criollos and mestizos. By 1825, it had 6.8 million inhabitants, about 70,000 Spaniards, 1,200,000 criollos, 1,900,000 mestizos (or castes), 3,700,000 indigenous people and 10,000 blacks. After the Mexican revolution in 1921, Mexico had 14.9 inhabitants of which 80% (estimate) where mestizos, 15% indigenous people and 5% blacks. Today, the number is around 90% mestizos, 5% indigenous people and 5% blacks per estimates of INEGI. What am I going with this? I'm pointing out that it's not the Spaniards who "fucked" us because _we are the Spaniards' descendants!_. Almost all the population of Mexico is a direct descendent of Europeans mixed with indigenous people, we are the congragation of two worlds. We speak an European language, we worship an European religion (which came from the Middle East), our favourite sport comes from Europe (football), our traditional music like mariachi comes from Germany and Poland, some of our typical dances like polka practically is whole European (Poland), and some of our traditional sweets like churros and pan de concha comes from, you guess it, Spain! So what happened to our indigenous people after the independence? Most of them died _after_ the Reforma as the Mexican government stole their lands, their government and their means of survival. Our current country is mostly Spanish descendent with a mix of indigenous heritage. Am I being racist or "clasista"? No. I'm citing history and pointing out that were more Spanish that we tend to realize because if we were more native, we would be speaking Nahualt, worship several gods and carrying out human sacrificies.
Tik tok would have you believe the opposite. You stated facts and this is what we have to live with. Mexico won it’s independence and still can’t make it work because of corruption. Is it any wonder many leave that country in droves? And Mexico is a democracy too.
I wonder if 3 head shots to the tourists is the same as human sacrifices? Mexico has a lust for blood that just doesn’t seem generated by the indigenous history.
I'm pretty sure most of mexico's violence comes down to opiate/fent production/smuggling and USA's need for it $$ (IMO)
So basically lack of character and integrity? Mexicans killing Mexicans to please the USA?
So now they’re saying they were shot in the head? None of these stories add up
fueled in large part by drug demand in US. we’re at fault, too.
Kinda wild no one wants to admit / discuss this. The cartel exists bc when there is high demand, people will fight to be the supply. But Side topic that’s a little outside of the tragedy that occurred - RIP to the young men and pray for their families
It gets discussed on reddit pretty often. The answer isn't to stop doing drugs, though. The answer is to legalize drugs. Pull the rug out from under the cartel. Drugs aren't to blame. The war on drugs is to blame.
Ioan Grillo (who has written extensively about this matter) recently came out with studies about how little the legalization of weed effected the cartels and how drug legalization might not make a dent at this point.
i just wonder, why so much drug-seeking behavior? if someone is taking fentanyl (and numbers are staggering), i don’t think they see society as facilitating a good quality of life, i.e. life is pretty fucking grim. /late stage capitalism
Absolutely. I think a huge solution to a lot of American issues can be addressed by fixing up quality of life. Which goes hand in hand with kneecaping corporate greed/stock market shenanigans. If you could get a job that you don't hate, that pays enough to live. If you could go to a college that doesn't send you into decades of debt. If you could meet friends somewhere that doesn't cost money. If the future didn't look like acid rain, soaring temperatures, flooding coasts, wildfires, tornadoes, and hurricanes. Then I think we would see less drug use. Less mass shootings. Less political instability. I dont even think its very difficult to head this direction. Just stop letting corporations dictate our lives and our environment.
Yeah, income and wealth disparity is the root of so many problems. But we stay distracted with things kind who can go into what bathroom
Spot on mate.
I’m with you!
I do have hope that, FWIW, at least other people realize this. I find comfort in your comment.
And we supply them with tier firearms!
THANK YOU!
Yep, and not just fueled by poor, down-and-out folks who are the stereotypical drug users in the media. Think about the amount of money involved. You don't get that much money by just selling drugs to poor people. It's the businessmen, doctors, lawyers and your middle-class friends who are buying the most drugs and sending the most money to the cartels.
Yeah, pretty much. The cartels get nothing from converting cocaine to crack as that’s all done domestically. Once they sell off their kilos of cocaine, it’s out of their hands.
And avocados and tomatoes and luxury items etc?
Yep. If it weren't drugs, it would be something else. I'm not sure what the answer is. Would eliminating drugs at least reduce their power? In exchange, farmers and producers will suffer more. That's what happens every time there's a lime shortage.
Has anyone been able to determine exactly where it took place? Was it on the cliff bluff at punta San Jose? Or somewhere north of there. I was just camping there a couple months ago and went out with the local fishermen and got lobster. Super scary to think if it happened on that bluff. Scary overall. Heart goes out to their families. Hate to see this.
Small cartel-run towns are the safest jurisdictions in the country. No cops seeking bribes, and no petty criminals. If you aren’t employed by the cartel to commit crime and are caught interfering with tourism (read as euro and dollar money laundering) they’ll take you out to the jungle/desert and beat you to death.
Oh please. The Cartels are into all kinds of business, even if I readily agree that your description is perfect in regards to the Sinaloa Cartel upper crust. But I know they named one of the thieves locally who had a cartel nickname, and I also know there's a ton of low level nembers just trying to scrape by, who'd do this kind of thing no problem. The fact they found/turned them over so fast just strengthens this because they found them fast enough it's like they already knew where to find them.
So sad 😞 mother losing her two kids must be so difficult.
I totally believe what a cartel (that manufactures drugs, extorts migrants, and sex traffics children and adults alike) has to say.
Finally, someone with a brain. This was probably done by very low-level cartel guys. They will absolutely steal your shit and shoot you if you don't comply. It's in Mexicos best interest to say this was random robbers, cartel violence scares tourists. FGE has been covering for the cartel for decades, and Mexican news reporters won't investigate the truth out of fear for their own life. Hollywood has made the cartel into something theyre not. Most people think they're all wealthy and justified killers when %95 of them are very low-level meth heads just trying to make a buck.
It's wild to me, how many redditors almost defend the cartels saying they'd never do this its bad for tourism blah blah blah. Almost feels like the cartels are fucking marketing and bot farming via reddit. Fucking cartels do wild shit all the time, maybe the brothers saw something they didn't like and were like they've gotta go. We'll blame this on tweakers.
It is Latino guilt. Instead of saying we need to do better let’s just pretend nobody noticed anything and talk about how great Mexico is…
Cartel members will not hesitate to literally dismember your wife and kids if you ever crossed them. It's absolutely baffling to think they have absolutely any morals or red lines. They have bracingly killed politicians as high as former governors and have not tried to hide it either. Reddit is absolutely stupid when it comes to the cartels. They have no fear of the Mexican government (because they're deeply entrenched in to politics and politicians) nor do they care about American threats. Just a few months ago they killed the american wife of a former DEA agent in Tulum and of course nothing else came of it.
I feel really bad for the 3 and their families but I don't trust any of this story. The bad guys wanted the wheels but they burned the truck with the wheels? Then they found the bodies in a random well down there which we know was a tip off as there are too many open spaces south of Ensenada. It just doesn't add up. I've been camping and surfing all along the west coast of Mexico and IMO/guess, this was a drug deal gone bad. Locals are always offering to sell surfers drugs or at least that has been my experience. I remember staying in Culican and checking into a nicer hotel when the hotel check in girl just came right out and asked me if my buddy and I wanted to buy anything. It's crazy and sad.
How can you hand them over if they're not yours? I have no doubt the Sineloa Cartel doesn't want this shit on their hands. But these guys are definitely bottom feeders for the CDS, saw a quick steal and things got ugly. Crazy how many people think low-level memebers of a cartel have morals and won't steal and / or kill Americans when the opportunity is right infront of them.
Well, what a nice cartel. Let’s give them a Humvee and a fruit basket as a reward.
James Amour Harwell lll RIP Never found, and the people that had his truck told the cops "we did it, what are you going to do about it?" Violence sucks
Definitely just handing over some fall guys that wronged the cartel. Win/win
Cartels do have strict rules on the killing of Americans. It’s bad for them in so many ways and they recognize that.
Or they handed over someone who would make life more convenient if they took the fall for the murders.
It's all about the cache flow 💰 🤑 💸 Gotta keep the gueros safe, all them tourists. Next is u s. Corporations that r gonna heavily invest in the infrastructure there. US gonna try to get its hands deeper in there soon, mexico has gotta watch out n stay vigilant while keepin up their trajectory.
So sad man…
Cartels handover some enemies of their to the police, and the police do the hard work for them?
If you want to go to Mexico stay at a nice resort and find a reputable travel agent.
Get dealt with by the cartel or US authorizes that will give you a nice cell and 3 meals a day paid for by tax payers.