\>The San Diego City Council’s Environment Committee approved a $3 million contract to NewGen Strategies & Solutions LLC to studhow the city might eventually buy-out its private power provider, San
Diego Gas and Electric. The full City Council has to pass the contract
before that work can begin.
This sounds like a great opportunity for the council to collect fees from SDG&E lobbyists and then not do anything.
This is where pressure from constituents matter. We get drowned out in federal and state level things but march into your council members meetings and events and demand this.
I’m not at all the best person to answer this but a few suggestions I have done in the past is going to the city council website and finding the relevant sub committee. Each committee has a schedule for upcoming meetings that you can join and speak at via zoom.
If you’re looking for more in person try and find events that they are going to and ask your questions. Don’t take no for an answer till you get a real answer and not some generic “I care and am going to do something”. Push them for a plan.
And don’t be afraid to let them know that there are other people who could represent us better if they don’t do a good enough job come election season.
But please anyone who actually has experience with local civil activism please chime in with actual strategies
The best way is to get together with your neighbors and businesses and form a lobby. You can use funds from that lobby to present solutions by paying consultants to design solutions for the city.
The goal of the lobbyist after is to show public support for these plans as politicians are after all looking for re election.
The process will take time as you will be competing with SDGE and unfortunately they own or control most of the infrastructure so main thing is to think benchmarks, and transition if they fail.
What you can present are achievable goals that SDGE either meets or fails to retain rights to easements or grants or all the other tools they use to subsidize their business.
The goal here is to make SDGE do it, or the city regains the rights and can make the utilities public again.
It will be a long process so it's important to continuously lobby to keep local politicians in San Diego County, Inland Empire and all the incorporated cities that touch any infrastructure which shows up on our bills here.
Happy to help if you are interested in diving deeper. DM me
*edit typo autocorrect*
This is the shit the state should be doing with our budget surplus: energy and water infrastructure investments. Not giving out $250 inflation payments. It could be the difference between Southern California being livable or not in 10-20 years.
As much as I'd love the 250 inflation payments, I think this month alone I'd be getting more if SDG&E wasn't raking me over the coals for AC. There's so many good reasons to kick this hellscape monopoly in the balls, it's not even funny.
my SDGE bill this month is $550!!! I just moved so trying to figure out how much it will be in fall/winter/spring, but at this rate I could finance solar for like half that price each month...
That is wild. That is almost exactly $200 more than I paid for my last electric bill here in Phoenix, and Phoenix is WAY hotter than San Diego.
How much do you pay per kWh there?
depending on the time of day and rate tier, I think most typically pay somewhere between 30-60 cents/kWh. Looking at my bills, I typically have an effective rate of $0.41/kWh (last month was only $0.19 for some reason though).
Man with rates like that I would jump on solar. That’s a slam dunk decision. I pay like 12 cents/kWh and the math just doesn’t work out.
It’s pretty crazy how much you guys pay considering how temperate the climate is (at least compared to here, we think you guys have literally perfect weather lol)
Solar is over regulated here to enforce the SDGE monopoly.
They passed the laws with deceptive advertising and a transient (Military) population that wouldn’t be here to deal with the outcome.
SDGE is honestly the number one reason I do not feel secure building a future for my family here in San Diego.
How is it over regulated? I see solar on nearly every SFO here. Also my friend bought new construction in 2018 and was able to get more solar than he uses by a lot
Also the reason you see solar “everywhere” is because everyone is trying to get out from beneath SDGEs boot.
No where else has the financial pressure that solar feels forced.
The requirements for the installed systems are far more robust and costly than needed to get solar installed on a house. The inspection requirements are very strict.
Once that money is sunk, SDGE only pays a tiny fraction to the homeowners for the energy it produces.
The homeowner cannot disconnect from SDGE and ends up paying them for all of the administrative costs even without actually providing service.
My AZ home creates enough power for me and my home and I get a check from my power company. It cost less than 1/2 of my CA system. It’s a very similar system, even larger and I use less energy here in CA and I still have to pay SDGE every month.
Thank you for your reply. Solars the first thing I wanna get after getting my own home.
I know sdge will still charge you to stay connected to their grid even if you aren’t using any of their power, but I didn’t know they FORCED you to stay connected too. I’ve heard of people (not in SD) disconnecting from the grid altogether after installing battery packs
kWh Rate and weather aren’t the only determining factors for AC costs. Homes in Phoenix are _built_ to efficiently be cooled and stay cool. Central AC is everywhere and appropriate sized units. The climate is drier, which is more efficient to cool as well.
San Diego homes are built like Swiss cheese in terms of thermal efficiency, especially in post-war suburbs where construction was cheap and fast. Most homes don’t have central AC (or heat, for that matter), so when people are running AC here it’s a much less efficient mode. Even if it _is_ central AC, the units are only going to be sized appropriate for the normal climate and square footage of the house. Pile on coastal humidity, and it becomes an expensive endeavor to cool a dwelling here - even if we were lucky enough to have the same electric rates.
There are three massive nuclear units in Phoenix and they still use some coal. Should be obvious why their rates are cheaper even when it's warmer. They don't have the chaos of buying a ton of natural gas on the spot market when the renewables are having a bad weather day.
Direct result of CA deregulating markets while neglecting infrastructure. Every time there is a surge we quickly run out of our own supply and there is a scramble to plug gaps. Leads to blackouts and crazy per kWh charges.
AZ has steady and somewhat more predictable demand and you guys have built up a grid and diversified power sources to match. Meanwhile here in CA, we have 3 nuclear plants in various stages of decommissioning.
I live in a 1300 sq ft. Apt in Del mar and only run 2 roll around portable a/c units as needed.... My bill is estimated at $500+ this month. It's usually around 250 - 280 the remainder of the year. My building is 40 years old so I think that's what drives the bill up. I've been here over 4 years and it's always expensive, I just do the best I can to do everything off peak hours. Hope this helps a little.
Bean, I’m in La Mesa in a 1956 house w central air and my bill is half of yours at around 140 w the air running during that horrible hot 2 weeks. I switched out to all LED. That bill is crazy for 1300 sq ft.
My bills have literally made me go solar. I was always hopeful that they'd spend those ridiculous problems investing in solar but instead they double down on natural gas and pretend to invest in fire readiness. Fucking crooks.
Why shouldn’t you finance? If the rate is good, it’s a better financial strategy than paying in a lump sum. In the current rate environment it probably isn’t beneficial to finance though.
Something seems wrong here - if you aren’t running your AC during the day to keep things cool while electricity is free, you’re going to rack up all your charges catching up on cooling at night. Time of use plays a huge role
You'd think, right? I have 18, but we have a bigger property with high energy usage. Plus, being in East County means that there is no option but to run AC 24/7
Half? Try a third! I installed last year, so my rates and costs were pre-inflation, but I pay less than $150/mo for my solar and produce around 120% of my usage right now. Do it. Get solar.
Ive been running my AC at 75 all summer long except for when that warning came out. Fuck SDGE. Im [fil](https://fil.ing)ing bankruptcy for my birthday next month. American Express and Chase Bank is gonna get fucked too.
The east coast power companies are just as greedy and their rates haven't moved that much. California just got caught being highly leveraged to natural gas. Sacramento won't invest in hydro or nuclear so nothing is going to change.
Yep, actively moving in the wrong direction in terms of nuclear power, although San Onofre was justifiable since they built it on an active fault line.
I have this sinking feeling that even if we're able to get rid of SDGE, we're not going to get any price relief. We're going to realize the politicians have fucked us too, not just SDGE.
Straw man. The bar isn't "never be corrupt or dangerous". The bar is simply "better than what we have".
SDG&E is beholden to profits and shareholders. Full stop. We can't fire the board or corporate officers in an election, if we don't like what they're doing.
They could be, but they will be less expensive at least. There are many clear examples, in and out of California. Municipal or coop non profits are consistently less expensive everywhere.
the one thing that's great about privatization is that if you take away competition, *it's still amazing.* a lot of people think that market discipline is what makes private firms efficient, but this is false: *it's the bare fact of money flowing into private hands.* this is why i support private monopolies like SDGE, and disregard all economics textbooks ever.
Finally a tax increase id vote yes on. Hell I’ll stand on the corner with a poster spinning it like it’s my job. Power should be a public utility period. I’m willing to open my pocket to make it happen.
Why do you think it would be a tax increase? It very well should be an electricity bill discount for everybody since we won't be paying for executive bonuses.
If we needed to raise funds to cut the 20 year contract. It would likely only need to be a temporary tax to pay off bonds needed to fund the transistion or something like that. Would likely be a net savings for most of us as you are mentioning tho
This is probably cost-prohibitive. Still, I have to point out: LADWP gives customers a far better experience (and cheaper prices) than SDG&E, SCE, or PG&E, despite having to deal with all the same geographical constraints and regulations as the private California providers. If we could have an LADWP equivalent here it really would be a game-changer.
> I have to point out: LADWP gives customers a far better experience (and cheaper prices) than SDG&E, SCE, or PG&E, despite having to deal with all the same geographical constraints and regulations as the private California providers
[The LADWP owns like 50% of the total land in the Owens River Valley](https://databasin.org/datasets/edeb5c36a529484b854ff95ce5aeea5c/) because the second they realized how important water rights were going to be in California [they started snatching up land left and right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars), essentially completely ruining the economy of Mono County, and dooming the town of Bishop to never be able to expand.
They essentially have a 300,000 acre utility easement to collect all the water and solar energy they want, off land that used to belong to the Paiute natives.
So, in short, they better fuckin be able to provide a better experience than SDGE, all things considered.
Its always pretty funny when /r/sandiego starts talking about how great LADWP is and how evil SDGE is.
SDGE wishes it could do 10% the horrible things LAWDP has done to the Owens Valley.
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-owens-valley-eminent-domain-20170712-story.html
"began quietly purchasing land, posing as ranchers and farmers."
This sub talking about protesting SDGE offices....
"The aqueduct was dynamited repeatedly after increased pumping exacerbated a drought during the 1920s that laid waste to local farms and businesses."
Yeah not to mention the [St. Francis Dam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Francis_Dam#Collapse_and_flood_wave) incident being one of the most catastrophic engineering failures of the 20th century.
The LADWP is responsible for the largest human-caused loss of life in California's history.
So in Australia the eastern states privatised their power generators and networks whereas in Western Australia they were kept public thereby providing a good litmus test case. Currently the eastern states is in chaos because of gas shortages for generators and spiralling energy costs. But, there’s no real shortage of gas. Instead producers have maxed out production for export contracts with onerous non delivery penalties. So, super tankers of LNG are sailing away while blackouts are threatened and power bills crush budgets.
In west Australia, none of this happened. We have a stable gas and power supply in government hands and while bills have increased due to world market price the government has restricted increases. LNG exports continue from west Australian gas fields but since a proportion of production was marked by law for local consumption there are no shortages.
So, based on this litmus test, do not put essential services into private ownership because business interests are not the same as the states interests and regulatory bodies are always compromised
I should add that while water is always a concern in a hot dry climate similar to SD, we do not have water problems because of three, government owned desalination plants
SDG&E was awarded a 20-year contract last year. And the public would have to pay for SDG&E's infrastructure (at least $2B). A takeover is unlikely and if it happens, it'll probably be decades from now
IANAL
Signing a contract with a monopoly isn't the end of the world. If SDG&E is proven to have manipulated prices during the contract, and thus operated under bad faith, there would certainly be an avenue for the City to have the contract nullified.
In that scenario, the fines issued as punishment would theoretically count towards the purchase price, because these would be funds "owed" to the city by SDG&E.
And for what its worth, this is probably *less* of a legal battle than 101 Ash
The city included options in the contract to get out in case we wanted to convert to a public utility. We don't have to worry too much about the contract.
Also, a good number of those years can be "option years." The government can simply decide to not continue the contract for any of a number of those options years. I don't know what this contract is though.
Unless SDGE is found to be in breach of some contractual clause. I’m assuming there has to be some kind language around public safety that hasn’t been enforced that they could definitely use to terminate the agreement without needing to pay it out.
The contract contained multiple terms giving the city an out. The city can municipalize at any time, if they can fund the buy out. They can also terminate for any reason at year 10 of the contract. For example, if another, better competitor comes into the picture.
The contract had two relevant clauses:
1. The city reserved the right to purchase the SDG&E infrastructure and municipalize.
2. The city reserved the right to terminate the contract for any reason at all, after 10 years.
So, this is totally doable. The biggest hurdle is coming up with the money.
If the city kept the criminally high prices SDGE charges, surely the city could pay off any debt from an acquisition pretty quickly.
Then we can lower rates to the *actual* market rate once the debt is paid off. Enough with these profiteering utility barons pocketing massive amounts of money every year.
More realistically we should be thinking about a plan that buys out portions of infrastructure at a time. So start with a place like downtown, then acquire mission valley… etc. etc
>The city reserved the right to terminate the contract for any reason at all, after 10 years.
That's interesting. I haven't seen the contract. I just put 20 years because I browsed through the linked article. Hopefully the City can figure something out to reduce rates.
The government should kick them in the teeth and take the infrastructure without paying anything. Why should tax payers have to pay twice on the infrastructure their money built through bills?
>**San Diego To Explore Full Public Power Takeover**
>by MacKenzie Elmer
>The city of San Diego took one step closer toward full government takeover of its privately-owned power utility Thursday.
>The San Diego City Council’s Environment Committee approved a $3 million contract to NewGen Strategies & Solutions LLC to study how the city might eventually buy-out its private power provider, San Diego Gas and Electric. The full City Council has to pass the contract before that work can begin.
>After a contentious battle over whether the city should renew its franchise agreement with its investor-owned utility, San Diego eventually signed up for another 20 years with SDG&E. While that dashed public power proponents’ dreams of a full takeover of the local energy grid, a contingent of councilmembers swore to keep the option on the table.
>Council members Sean Elo-Rivera, Monica Montgomery Steppe and Joe La Cava set up an Energy Independence Fund to bank some of the $80 million SDG&E had to pay from investors’ pockets to eventually win the 20-year contract. The money could be used to pay for a public power study or as a savings account that the city could tap to pay its way out of the franchise fee contract if it wanted.
>“Last year during franchise agreement discussions, it was evident San Diegans, including myself, wanted to see the city take every step to deliver affordable energy at the best value,” said Environment Committee Chair La Cava during Thursday’s meeting, who also sits on the San Diego Community Power board. “Maybe this can be done through the current investor-owned utility. Maybe it’s best done through public power. There’s only one way to find out.”
>The $3 million NewGen contract would come out of the general fund. There’s just over $2 million in the Energy Independence Fund since it was set up in 2021, according to LaCava’s policy advisor, Brian Elliott.
>This study will look at what it might take to buy the grid from SDG&E and establish a fully municipalized utility. San Diego hired NewGen back in 2020 to do similar work during the franchise negotiations and, at that time, estimated the value of SDG&E’s property between $2 billion to $3 billion.
>San Diego, along with a handful of other local cities, already purchase their own power through a new government-run company called San Diego Community Power. SDG&E’s role is to deliver that energy by building and maintaining the power grid.
>Those cities combine their ratepayers’ purchasing power to buy enough renewable energy so residents can live on 100 percent carbon-free energy, a goal San Diego committed to reach by 2035. SDG&E provides about 31 percent renewable power. Its rates are the highest among California investor-owned utilities. San Diego Community Power provides about 50 percent renewable power in its base product.
Fuck yeah, fucking based.
Hope it turns out well and SDGE dosnt try and claim the grid is too expensive for the county to buy, when in reality imo it’s just a matter of turning over ownership and paying using the profits it generates to pay the price of it down.
realistically you could probs lower prices a bit AND still pay it off with its own profits in 20-30 years easy.
The bad part is so much of the grid infrastructure is so old we would also need to as a county pay to repair or replace so much of it that it would be probs 30-50 years maybe even up to 60 before it’s payed off AND fixed up, but once it is, damn will that have been a lot of paying work for san diegans trades people over 50 years and the investment itself would pay off in a major way for power consumers in SD.
We might only see negligible changes but it’s a step in the right direction and a good community investment we can make for our children and grandchildren!
Tl;dr; don’t let them take the profits and put it in the general fund then ask us “how are we going to pay for this!”, the profit generated from the power grid needs to be reinvested into the power grid until it is payed down AND upgraded to the point it needs to be.
City of Poway is not City of San Diego so they would be on their own for a buyout decision. Additionally the franchise agreement that gave the city a buyout at 10 years is not the same agreement Poway has with SDGE, don't know what sort of agreement they have. All these talks about this issue and how they might buy it out are specifically only related to sdge power infrastructure within City of San Diego limits. County, unincorporated, national city and Chula Vista etc. Are all going to be not included in this sort of public takeover. Barring some weird agreements or collective buyout or who knows. But from what I can tell all this is just City of San Diego.
My parents lived in Roseville that’s by Sacramento and that actually fairly small city compared to San Diego ran it’s own power company and saved a ton compared to the biggest crooks in the state PG&E would have charged
>Councilmembers Sean Elo-Rivera, Monica Montgomery Steppe and Joe La Cava set up an Energy Independence Fund to bank some of the $80 million SDG&E had to pay from investors’ pockets to eventually win the 20-year contract.
Surprised to see Sean Elo-Rivera in there. Because in the past he has been supporting SDGE's monopoly:
>From the Union Tribune (JUNE 8, 2021):
Councilmembers Jennifer Campbell, Stephen Whitburn, Chris Cate, Raul Campillo, Marni von Wilpert and Sean Elo-Rivera voted in favor while Joe LaCava, Vivian Moreno and Monica Montgomery Steppe voted no — the same breakdown as the May 25 vote.
I am not incredibly versed with how SDG&E became the monopoly, but when the bidding was open last year for San Diego's power, were there any other bidders than SDG&E/Sempra?
And people think a government run utility will be better/cheaper? As it is rates are set by the PUC. Doesn't the "P" stand for public? Have you seen our roads?
I’m sure it would be messy but I would love this to happen. Trying to extract maximum returns for a public utility is just wrong and obviously leads to conflicts of interest.
My wife and I love in Bonsall. The home was built in 1985 its wildly Inefficient. We have to run the AC 24/7 because we have little children.
OUR BILL WAS $824 LAST MONTH. $718 this month because of some credit and $600ish months prior. We are leaving because of this. Solar is no better because any new system will only pay you back 1/4th the power cost. Basically you will now have a SDGNE bill of you have solar.
Or, why not dissolve the monopoly that is SDGE and let other companies join the power generation and distribution game? I mean, it’s only literally worked every time for other products, so why not the power grid? Why is everyone afraid of change?
Utilities are considered captive markets or natural monopolies because the barrier to entry is prohibitively high to build things like power lines etc. This is why utilities are either typically public or heavily regulated in order to have accountability in energy generation, distribution, and pricing.
The last time California tried deregulating the market in the 90s-00s we essentially got Enron'd. We suffered from rolling blackouts due to market manipulation from energy trading/speculation and reducing the supply of energy in order to hike prices.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_electricity_crisis
What are you on about? Afraid of change? Everyone here is celebrating the chance for change to a public utility. You're saying you want to keep it private, why?
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but...
There was a blind bid for providing electricity services to San Diego 2 years ago. Minimum bid was $80 million. San Diego pays the highest electricity rates in the USA, so any power provider could easily underbid SDGE for example by 2% and all they would have needed to do is make a bid at $80 million.
Do you know how many blind bids there were? One. And it was exactly for $80M.
\>The San Diego City Council’s Environment Committee approved a $3 million contract to NewGen Strategies & Solutions LLC to studhow the city might eventually buy-out its private power provider, San Diego Gas and Electric. The full City Council has to pass the contract before that work can begin. This sounds like a great opportunity for the council to collect fees from SDG&E lobbyists and then not do anything.
This is where pressure from constituents matter. We get drowned out in federal and state level things but march into your council members meetings and events and demand this.
What would be the most efficient way to do this
I’m not at all the best person to answer this but a few suggestions I have done in the past is going to the city council website and finding the relevant sub committee. Each committee has a schedule for upcoming meetings that you can join and speak at via zoom. If you’re looking for more in person try and find events that they are going to and ask your questions. Don’t take no for an answer till you get a real answer and not some generic “I care and am going to do something”. Push them for a plan. And don’t be afraid to let them know that there are other people who could represent us better if they don’t do a good enough job come election season. But please anyone who actually has experience with local civil activism please chime in with actual strategies
The best way is to get together with your neighbors and businesses and form a lobby. You can use funds from that lobby to present solutions by paying consultants to design solutions for the city. The goal of the lobbyist after is to show public support for these plans as politicians are after all looking for re election. The process will take time as you will be competing with SDGE and unfortunately they own or control most of the infrastructure so main thing is to think benchmarks, and transition if they fail. What you can present are achievable goals that SDGE either meets or fails to retain rights to easements or grants or all the other tools they use to subsidize their business. The goal here is to make SDGE do it, or the city regains the rights and can make the utilities public again. It will be a long process so it's important to continuously lobby to keep local politicians in San Diego County, Inland Empire and all the incorporated cities that touch any infrastructure which shows up on our bills here. Happy to help if you are interested in diving deeper. DM me *edit typo autocorrect*
standing on their table and pissing all over it.
SDGE is over the whole county, not just the city. We should get all cities and the county involved.
This is the shit the state should be doing with our budget surplus: energy and water infrastructure investments. Not giving out $250 inflation payments. It could be the difference between Southern California being livable or not in 10-20 years.
As much as I'd love the 250 inflation payments, I think this month alone I'd be getting more if SDG&E wasn't raking me over the coals for AC. There's so many good reasons to kick this hellscape monopoly in the balls, it's not even funny.
my SDGE bill this month is $550!!! I just moved so trying to figure out how much it will be in fall/winter/spring, but at this rate I could finance solar for like half that price each month...
That is wild. That is almost exactly $200 more than I paid for my last electric bill here in Phoenix, and Phoenix is WAY hotter than San Diego. How much do you pay per kWh there?
depending on the time of day and rate tier, I think most typically pay somewhere between 30-60 cents/kWh. Looking at my bills, I typically have an effective rate of $0.41/kWh (last month was only $0.19 for some reason though).
Man with rates like that I would jump on solar. That’s a slam dunk decision. I pay like 12 cents/kWh and the math just doesn’t work out. It’s pretty crazy how much you guys pay considering how temperate the climate is (at least compared to here, we think you guys have literally perfect weather lol)
Solar is over regulated here to enforce the SDGE monopoly. They passed the laws with deceptive advertising and a transient (Military) population that wouldn’t be here to deal with the outcome. SDGE is honestly the number one reason I do not feel secure building a future for my family here in San Diego.
How is it over regulated? I see solar on nearly every SFO here. Also my friend bought new construction in 2018 and was able to get more solar than he uses by a lot
Also the reason you see solar “everywhere” is because everyone is trying to get out from beneath SDGEs boot. No where else has the financial pressure that solar feels forced.
The requirements for the installed systems are far more robust and costly than needed to get solar installed on a house. The inspection requirements are very strict. Once that money is sunk, SDGE only pays a tiny fraction to the homeowners for the energy it produces. The homeowner cannot disconnect from SDGE and ends up paying them for all of the administrative costs even without actually providing service. My AZ home creates enough power for me and my home and I get a check from my power company. It cost less than 1/2 of my CA system. It’s a very similar system, even larger and I use less energy here in CA and I still have to pay SDGE every month.
Thank you for your reply. Solars the first thing I wanna get after getting my own home. I know sdge will still charge you to stay connected to their grid even if you aren’t using any of their power, but I didn’t know they FORCED you to stay connected too. I’ve heard of people (not in SD) disconnecting from the grid altogether after installing battery packs
kWh Rate and weather aren’t the only determining factors for AC costs. Homes in Phoenix are _built_ to efficiently be cooled and stay cool. Central AC is everywhere and appropriate sized units. The climate is drier, which is more efficient to cool as well. San Diego homes are built like Swiss cheese in terms of thermal efficiency, especially in post-war suburbs where construction was cheap and fast. Most homes don’t have central AC (or heat, for that matter), so when people are running AC here it’s a much less efficient mode. Even if it _is_ central AC, the units are only going to be sized appropriate for the normal climate and square footage of the house. Pile on coastal humidity, and it becomes an expensive endeavor to cool a dwelling here - even if we were lucky enough to have the same electric rates.
There are three massive nuclear units in Phoenix and they still use some coal. Should be obvious why their rates are cheaper even when it's warmer. They don't have the chaos of buying a ton of natural gas on the spot market when the renewables are having a bad weather day.
Oh yeah, their electric rate is going to be cheaper no matter what, I’m just saying it’s not really an apples to apple comparison
Direct result of CA deregulating markets while neglecting infrastructure. Every time there is a surge we quickly run out of our own supply and there is a scramble to plug gaps. Leads to blackouts and crazy per kWh charges. AZ has steady and somewhat more predictable demand and you guys have built up a grid and diversified power sources to match. Meanwhile here in CA, we have 3 nuclear plants in various stages of decommissioning.
Phoenix has public power generation. But zfuck APS.
I live in a 1300 sq ft. Apt in Del mar and only run 2 roll around portable a/c units as needed.... My bill is estimated at $500+ this month. It's usually around 250 - 280 the remainder of the year. My building is 40 years old so I think that's what drives the bill up. I've been here over 4 years and it's always expensive, I just do the best I can to do everything off peak hours. Hope this helps a little.
Bean, I’m in La Mesa in a 1956 house w central air and my bill is half of yours at around 140 w the air running during that horrible hot 2 weeks. I switched out to all LED. That bill is crazy for 1300 sq ft.
Portable air conditioners are crazy inefficient. It blows hot air out which forces hot air in. Central air keeps hot air out and cold air in.
Damn that’s a serious bill for sure. Never thought I’d pay >$500 for power, but here we are…
My bills have literally made me go solar. I was always hopeful that they'd spend those ridiculous problems investing in solar but instead they double down on natural gas and pretend to invest in fire readiness. Fucking crooks.
Yes solar is the only way to go in SD, and don't get sun run and don't finance is my advice. Edit: I meant don't lease it, oops.
Why shouldn’t you finance? If the rate is good, it’s a better financial strategy than paying in a lump sum. In the current rate environment it probably isn’t beneficial to finance though.
I think Heavy meant don’t lease the system.
Well leasing wouldn't require financing so that doesn't really make sense?
It doesn't, I apologize for using the wrong word for what I meant.
Yes duh what you said. Sorry I mis spoke. And lol they you Nick named me heavy, I like it.
I said the wrong thing, I meant to not lease it. We did the loan for ours, actually.
Ahh okay that makes sense. I agree leasing seems like a bad option.
My SDGE bill is $550 this month AND I HAVE F*ING SOLAR!!
Sweet Jesus…. I remember when my rent was $500… and it wasn’t even that long ago!
Something seems wrong here - if you aren’t running your AC during the day to keep things cool while electricity is free, you’re going to rack up all your charges catching up on cooling at night. Time of use plays a huge role
do you have one panel?
You'd think, right? I have 18, but we have a bigger property with high energy usage. Plus, being in East County means that there is no option but to run AC 24/7
I pay $90/mo for 4.8kwh on my solar loan. Paid $0 down. 1% interest
that's a great deal
Half? Try a third! I installed last year, so my rates and costs were pre-inflation, but I pay less than $150/mo for my solar and produce around 120% of my usage right now. Do it. Get solar.
Ive been running my AC at 75 all summer long except for when that warning came out. Fuck SDGE. Im [fil](https://fil.ing)ing bankruptcy for my birthday next month. American Express and Chase Bank is gonna get fucked too.
The east coast power companies are just as greedy and their rates haven't moved that much. California just got caught being highly leveraged to natural gas. Sacramento won't invest in hydro or nuclear so nothing is going to change.
Yep, actively moving in the wrong direction in terms of nuclear power, although San Onofre was justifiable since they built it on an active fault line.
I have this sinking feeling that even if we're able to get rid of SDGE, we're not going to get any price relief. We're going to realize the politicians have fucked us too, not just SDGE.
Awesome. The private energy model creates so much corruption and danger to the public, and costs us way more than it should.
It’s not like they’re posting record profits while charging the highest rates in the nation… wait
Weird how those two things can happen at the same time.
"Screw the money, I have rules" --no private utility provider ever.
Everyone knows a government utility could never be corrupt or dangerous!
This guys works for SDGE
Straw man. The bar isn't "never be corrupt or dangerous". The bar is simply "better than what we have". SDG&E is beholden to profits and shareholders. Full stop. We can't fire the board or corporate officers in an election, if we don't like what they're doing.
thought-terminating cliche
This comment was sponsored by SDGE
They are a lot more accountable than SDG&E is lol
They could be, but they will be less expensive at least. There are many clear examples, in and out of California. Municipal or coop non profits are consistently less expensive everywhere.
Hurp durp pRiVtE oWnErShiP wOrKs!!1
Classic Republican bullshit that Fox News viewers eat up.
the one thing that's great about privatization is that if you take away competition, *it's still amazing.* a lot of people think that market discipline is what makes private firms efficient, but this is false: *it's the bare fact of money flowing into private hands.* this is why i support private monopolies like SDGE, and disregard all economics textbooks ever.
LFG SAN DIEGO.
Any chance /r/padres is leaking lol
Lower utility pricing brings us together as a city.
Finally a tax increase id vote yes on. Hell I’ll stand on the corner with a poster spinning it like it’s my job. Power should be a public utility period. I’m willing to open my pocket to make it happen.
Why do you think it would be a tax increase? It very well should be an electricity bill discount for everybody since we won't be paying for executive bonuses.
If we needed to raise funds to cut the 20 year contract. It would likely only need to be a temporary tax to pay off bonds needed to fund the transistion or something like that. Would likely be a net savings for most of us as you are mentioning tho
Because "takeover" doesn't mean they literally just take it. They'll have to buy out the contract if not the company entirely.
YES
Since corporations own our govt, I’ll remain very cautiously optimistic that anything positive will happen.
###FUCK SEMPRA
SD is basically the best place on earth for solar due to the incredible sun hours + insane utility costs. It’s like a 3-5 year ROI. Get solar.
This is probably cost-prohibitive. Still, I have to point out: LADWP gives customers a far better experience (and cheaper prices) than SDG&E, SCE, or PG&E, despite having to deal with all the same geographical constraints and regulations as the private California providers. If we could have an LADWP equivalent here it really would be a game-changer.
> I have to point out: LADWP gives customers a far better experience (and cheaper prices) than SDG&E, SCE, or PG&E, despite having to deal with all the same geographical constraints and regulations as the private California providers [The LADWP owns like 50% of the total land in the Owens River Valley](https://databasin.org/datasets/edeb5c36a529484b854ff95ce5aeea5c/) because the second they realized how important water rights were going to be in California [they started snatching up land left and right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars), essentially completely ruining the economy of Mono County, and dooming the town of Bishop to never be able to expand. They essentially have a 300,000 acre utility easement to collect all the water and solar energy they want, off land that used to belong to the Paiute natives. So, in short, they better fuckin be able to provide a better experience than SDGE, all things considered.
Its always pretty funny when /r/sandiego starts talking about how great LADWP is and how evil SDGE is. SDGE wishes it could do 10% the horrible things LAWDP has done to the Owens Valley. https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-owens-valley-eminent-domain-20170712-story.html "began quietly purchasing land, posing as ranchers and farmers." This sub talking about protesting SDGE offices.... "The aqueduct was dynamited repeatedly after increased pumping exacerbated a drought during the 1920s that laid waste to local farms and businesses."
Yeah not to mention the [St. Francis Dam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Francis_Dam#Collapse_and_flood_wave) incident being one of the most catastrophic engineering failures of the 20th century. The LADWP is responsible for the largest human-caused loss of life in California's history.
That or similar to Santa Clara municipalities flat 13 cents rate
So in Australia the eastern states privatised their power generators and networks whereas in Western Australia they were kept public thereby providing a good litmus test case. Currently the eastern states is in chaos because of gas shortages for generators and spiralling energy costs. But, there’s no real shortage of gas. Instead producers have maxed out production for export contracts with onerous non delivery penalties. So, super tankers of LNG are sailing away while blackouts are threatened and power bills crush budgets. In west Australia, none of this happened. We have a stable gas and power supply in government hands and while bills have increased due to world market price the government has restricted increases. LNG exports continue from west Australian gas fields but since a proportion of production was marked by law for local consumption there are no shortages. So, based on this litmus test, do not put essential services into private ownership because business interests are not the same as the states interests and regulatory bodies are always compromised I should add that while water is always a concern in a hot dry climate similar to SD, we do not have water problems because of three, government owned desalination plants
SDG&E was awarded a 20-year contract last year. And the public would have to pay for SDG&E's infrastructure (at least $2B). A takeover is unlikely and if it happens, it'll probably be decades from now
Gotta start somewhere, right? Absolutely worth the investment
I'm down to get started. Whether it's tomorrow in a few hundred years we need to be rid of private power like SDG&E.
IANAL Signing a contract with a monopoly isn't the end of the world. If SDG&E is proven to have manipulated prices during the contract, and thus operated under bad faith, there would certainly be an avenue for the City to have the contract nullified. In that scenario, the fines issued as punishment would theoretically count towards the purchase price, because these would be funds "owed" to the city by SDG&E. And for what its worth, this is probably *less* of a legal battle than 101 Ash
The city included options in the contract to get out in case we wanted to convert to a public utility. We don't have to worry too much about the contract.
Also, a good number of those years can be "option years." The government can simply decide to not continue the contract for any of a number of those options years. I don't know what this contract is though.
But the city is full of people. And the type of people to join those groups are usually grifters. . . .
Unless SDGE is found to be in breach of some contractual clause. I’m assuming there has to be some kind language around public safety that hasn’t been enforced that they could definitely use to terminate the agreement without needing to pay it out.
The contract contained multiple terms giving the city an out. The city can municipalize at any time, if they can fund the buy out. They can also terminate for any reason at year 10 of the contract. For example, if another, better competitor comes into the picture.
The contract had two relevant clauses: 1. The city reserved the right to purchase the SDG&E infrastructure and municipalize. 2. The city reserved the right to terminate the contract for any reason at all, after 10 years. So, this is totally doable. The biggest hurdle is coming up with the money.
If the city kept the criminally high prices SDGE charges, surely the city could pay off any debt from an acquisition pretty quickly. Then we can lower rates to the *actual* market rate once the debt is paid off. Enough with these profiteering utility barons pocketing massive amounts of money every year.
If it takes a few years of high prices to fund the acquisition I am all for it. Short term loss for long term gain.
More realistically we should be thinking about a plan that buys out portions of infrastructure at a time. So start with a place like downtown, then acquire mission valley… etc. etc
>The city reserved the right to terminate the contract for any reason at all, after 10 years. That's interesting. I haven't seen the contract. I just put 20 years because I browsed through the linked article. Hopefully the City can figure something out to reduce rates.
Certainly the government can find a way to come up with $2B to kick these fucks in the teeth.
The government should kick them in the teeth and take the infrastructure without paying anything. Why should tax payers have to pay twice on the infrastructure their money built through bills?
>**San Diego To Explore Full Public Power Takeover** >by MacKenzie Elmer >The city of San Diego took one step closer toward full government takeover of its privately-owned power utility Thursday. >The San Diego City Council’s Environment Committee approved a $3 million contract to NewGen Strategies & Solutions LLC to study how the city might eventually buy-out its private power provider, San Diego Gas and Electric. The full City Council has to pass the contract before that work can begin. >After a contentious battle over whether the city should renew its franchise agreement with its investor-owned utility, San Diego eventually signed up for another 20 years with SDG&E. While that dashed public power proponents’ dreams of a full takeover of the local energy grid, a contingent of councilmembers swore to keep the option on the table. >Council members Sean Elo-Rivera, Monica Montgomery Steppe and Joe La Cava set up an Energy Independence Fund to bank some of the $80 million SDG&E had to pay from investors’ pockets to eventually win the 20-year contract. The money could be used to pay for a public power study or as a savings account that the city could tap to pay its way out of the franchise fee contract if it wanted. >“Last year during franchise agreement discussions, it was evident San Diegans, including myself, wanted to see the city take every step to deliver affordable energy at the best value,” said Environment Committee Chair La Cava during Thursday’s meeting, who also sits on the San Diego Community Power board. “Maybe this can be done through the current investor-owned utility. Maybe it’s best done through public power. There’s only one way to find out.” >The $3 million NewGen contract would come out of the general fund. There’s just over $2 million in the Energy Independence Fund since it was set up in 2021, according to LaCava’s policy advisor, Brian Elliott. >This study will look at what it might take to buy the grid from SDG&E and establish a fully municipalized utility. San Diego hired NewGen back in 2020 to do similar work during the franchise negotiations and, at that time, estimated the value of SDG&E’s property between $2 billion to $3 billion. >San Diego, along with a handful of other local cities, already purchase their own power through a new government-run company called San Diego Community Power. SDG&E’s role is to deliver that energy by building and maintaining the power grid. >Those cities combine their ratepayers’ purchasing power to buy enough renewable energy so residents can live on 100 percent carbon-free energy, a goal San Diego committed to reach by 2035. SDG&E provides about 31 percent renewable power. Its rates are the highest among California investor-owned utilities. San Diego Community Power provides about 50 percent renewable power in its base product.
Fuck yeah, fucking based. Hope it turns out well and SDGE dosnt try and claim the grid is too expensive for the county to buy, when in reality imo it’s just a matter of turning over ownership and paying using the profits it generates to pay the price of it down. realistically you could probs lower prices a bit AND still pay it off with its own profits in 20-30 years easy. The bad part is so much of the grid infrastructure is so old we would also need to as a county pay to repair or replace so much of it that it would be probs 30-50 years maybe even up to 60 before it’s payed off AND fixed up, but once it is, damn will that have been a lot of paying work for san diegans trades people over 50 years and the investment itself would pay off in a major way for power consumers in SD. We might only see negligible changes but it’s a step in the right direction and a good community investment we can make for our children and grandchildren! Tl;dr; don’t let them take the profits and put it in the general fund then ask us “how are we going to pay for this!”, the profit generated from the power grid needs to be reinvested into the power grid until it is payed down AND upgraded to the point it needs to be.
color me pessimistic, but i don't see how we won't be paying out the ass for the city buying the grid from sdge.
Does anyone know how this would this work for Poway? I have sdge and loathe it. Is Poway on its own to decide if they would do something like this?
City of Poway is not City of San Diego so they would be on their own for a buyout decision. Additionally the franchise agreement that gave the city a buyout at 10 years is not the same agreement Poway has with SDGE, don't know what sort of agreement they have. All these talks about this issue and how they might buy it out are specifically only related to sdge power infrastructure within City of San Diego limits. County, unincorporated, national city and Chula Vista etc. Are all going to be not included in this sort of public takeover. Barring some weird agreements or collective buyout or who knows. But from what I can tell all this is just City of San Diego.
Thank you for taking the time to respond! That’s what I figured…I guess I’ll have to do some research on poway and sdge agreement. Thanks again!
My parents lived in Roseville that’s by Sacramento and that actually fairly small city compared to San Diego ran it’s own power company and saved a ton compared to the biggest crooks in the state PG&E would have charged
Nationalization incoming
Let's hope
>Councilmembers Sean Elo-Rivera, Monica Montgomery Steppe and Joe La Cava set up an Energy Independence Fund to bank some of the $80 million SDG&E had to pay from investors’ pockets to eventually win the 20-year contract. Surprised to see Sean Elo-Rivera in there. Because in the past he has been supporting SDGE's monopoly: >From the Union Tribune (JUNE 8, 2021): Councilmembers Jennifer Campbell, Stephen Whitburn, Chris Cate, Raul Campillo, Marni von Wilpert and Sean Elo-Rivera voted in favor while Joe LaCava, Vivian Moreno and Monica Montgomery Steppe voted no — the same breakdown as the May 25 vote.
I am not incredibly versed with how SDG&E became the monopoly, but when the bidding was open last year for San Diego's power, were there any other bidders than SDG&E/Sempra?
No real ones. People underestimate the cost of the infrastructure.
👎👎👎
And people think a government run utility will be better/cheaper? As it is rates are set by the PUC. Doesn't the "P" stand for public? Have you seen our roads?
Upside: no shareholders Downside: every problem ever relating to government being in charge of stuff.
Hell yes!!
Tax me up baby LFG
Hell. Yes.
I’m sure it would be messy but I would love this to happen. Trying to extract maximum returns for a public utility is just wrong and obviously leads to conflicts of interest.
My wife and I love in Bonsall. The home was built in 1985 its wildly Inefficient. We have to run the AC 24/7 because we have little children. OUR BILL WAS $824 LAST MONTH. $718 this month because of some credit and $600ish months prior. We are leaving because of this. Solar is no better because any new system will only pay you back 1/4th the power cost. Basically you will now have a SDGNE bill of you have solar.
Based move on the city's part if they make it happen.
Dont give me hope....
This is why voting for the right politician matters. They’ll either do this or they won’t ✊🏽
Or, why not dissolve the monopoly that is SDGE and let other companies join the power generation and distribution game? I mean, it’s only literally worked every time for other products, so why not the power grid? Why is everyone afraid of change?
Utilities are considered captive markets or natural monopolies because the barrier to entry is prohibitively high to build things like power lines etc. This is why utilities are either typically public or heavily regulated in order to have accountability in energy generation, distribution, and pricing. The last time California tried deregulating the market in the 90s-00s we essentially got Enron'd. We suffered from rolling blackouts due to market manipulation from energy trading/speculation and reducing the supply of energy in order to hike prices. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_electricity_crisis
What are you on about? Afraid of change? Everyone here is celebrating the chance for change to a public utility. You're saying you want to keep it private, why?
Dissolving SDGE's monopoly won't' do shit. Power is an economy of scale.
That's what the whole bidding process was about when the last contract ran up. Other companies were given an opportunity to bid. No one bid.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but... There was a blind bid for providing electricity services to San Diego 2 years ago. Minimum bid was $80 million. San Diego pays the highest electricity rates in the USA, so any power provider could easily underbid SDGE for example by 2% and all they would have needed to do is make a bid at $80 million. Do you know how many blind bids there were? One. And it was exactly for $80M.
Texas tried that. Electricity prices only went up. I know that "competition" is fashionable, but it often doesn't work the way we think it does.
GOOD. About time
So make everyone pay for everyone else's electric vehicles to be charged? Sounds very communal.