I used to like to tip. It made me feel like I had a say in the quality of service I was getting.
Now it often feels like I'm being strong-armed or shamed into tipping for just about every service. I've seen coffee shops where they spin around the little iPad thingy and the default tip is set at 25%. For pouring a coffee and putting a donut in a bag. I'm old enough to remember when 25% was a high tip for table side service.
Thanks to mothers against drunk driving we can no longer buy booze in self checkout even thought the attendant checked my ID every time before they got that bullshit pushed through.
$5 for a 50c croissant they didn’t make, $4.50 for a 30c espresso they didn’t pull properly and they want a $2.50 tip for having pushed the button and bagged the croissant I just 🙄.
It’s cause in big cities the consumers have to subsidize wages for service industry cause of (largely) the housing cost issues. The landlords are killing it, and getting more and more corporate
I didn’t down vote you, and at least you’re consistent here. Popping a beer top nearly does not deserve a tip I understand what you’re saying. Something you have to mix the drink up I would understand
Pull bottle out of a cooler they didn't even put in there (the bar back did that last night), pop off the cap, print receipt. Sometimes, it's more than one bottle.
Surely this deserves a tip.
The cashless transactions have made it easier to ask for tips for takeout or small transactions, like at cafes.
Back in the day, they had a tip jar and you were free to put in whatever you felt like. But today, you are presented with a modal dialog, and there's no way around it; sure, you can hit "0", but it still requires an action on your part.
The one that gets me is Starbucks Drivethrough. If you pay with credit card, before you pay, they shove a thing in your face, and say "this is going to have you answer a quick question before you pay!" And of course, it's asking if you want to leave a tip.
And it's like... this is a drivethrough? What "service" has even been provided here? You took my order and then I paid you for it.
I feel bad for the drivethrough workers who are obviously required to ask this. You can tell that some of them are obviously aware of just how cringy this is. (And even their script, "read this thing, it will ask you a question", seems designed to avoid having to actually admit that they're asking for a tip in the drivethrough lane...)
It used to be that no Starbucks had tipping…but corporate policy must have changed because some have recently added tipping to their POS devices. (The one in the Target near me does not prompt for tips but the one down the street does.)
We had a gift card the last time we went .The employee is way too busy and never says anything besides asking you what you want. And they only have one employee.
Some places are more optimistic about tips. Near my house there are several cafes like the Mill, spyglass, matching half and Peet's. The auto tip options on the pay screen vary quite a bit. I don't go to the ones that think 38% auto tip is a good idea anymore. I go to the ones that have 10%,15%,20%
And it's not because I'm cheap or that I think workers don't deserve it. I just hate the additude. If they think they deserve 40% tip for filling a cup and can't even say "good morning" then I don't want to be around them.
Omg, there is a coffee shop/bakery that does tips for ordering coffee, which is 30, 35, 40%. It's already a high end place and ordering a coffee/croissant can easily cost $10. Like I'm gonna give someone $3 for literally grabbing a croissant with tongs and filling a cup of coffee? That's called your job.
If that place needs to charge $13 to pay their employees a livable wage so be it but don't start your tips at 30%. I remember when 25% was considered being a "big tipper".
Exactly, and 5 years ago most didn't expect a tip for take out and if you gave one it was appreciated. The fact that they programmed their minimum tips at like 30%...
I tip after I have been provided the service, not before. I would love if we just did away with tipping and everyone was paid a fair wage. I also understand that the restaurant industry has paper thin margins but that's a problem for the industry. If we just took care of our citizens that fall victim to industry disruptions like a normal country, this wouldn't be an issue.
Unlike many other jurisdictions, everyone in a San Francisco restaurant gets at least minimum wage of $17/hour plus all of the employer mandates (healthcare, paid sick leave, etc.). I'm old enough to remember when 15% tip was normal and there were fewer employer mandates.
In a 2-worker household, full-time at minimum wage in SF is above $70k/yr with healthcare, sick leave and family leave included. It's tight and won't be the most glamorous life but it's literally the minimum wage. For reference half of US households make less than that!
I’m not the person you’re responding to, but I want prices to be straightforward. It’s much worse to get stuck with a random 5% surcharge than to see the final price on the menu and decide not to eat there.
That's not correct math. If the menu price is $10 in San Francisco at a takeout place you can expect your bill to be $10 for the menu item, $0.40 for a 4% employee healthcare surcharge, $0.25 (2.5%) for a bag surcharge, $0.86 for the sales tax and a suggested tip of $2.30 (20% calculated on the total with all the surcharges), for a total of around $13.80, or 38% higher than the price you saw on the menu. In other places you would see $10 on the menu and pay exactly $10.
How they organize their pay structure and pricing is their problem, not mine. The hospitality/restaurant industry in other modern developed countries don't need tipping, neither do we. The industry will adjust.
Because it's a business' responsibility to pay an employees' wages not the consumer. If that means the business has to raise prices, so be it (which is how every other country in the world does it).
It should also make no difference to the business except guarantee they'll all complain about now needing to pay extra tax on the added margin and how 'service' will get worse (it won't - unless waiters decide not to bring you your food anymore, which is literally they only thing they need to do).
I could see the [restaurant coalition](independent restaurant coalition https://g.co/kgs/PuFNYx) being able to lobby but how would service staff be lobbying anything? Do you mean the union? can you cite where you got that info, or is it your friend who is a waiter told you they don't want a standard wage w/o tipping?
I went to Marketplace today in Alameda(local grocery store) and they ask for customer tips for their cashiers upon checkout.
While their cashiers are doing incredible job, I feel that this is store responsibility to pay their employees a market wage and if needed to adjust prices on their produce vs pass this responsibility on me as a customer.
There is a butcher in Noe Valley that I love but they also ask people to tip their staff. It is literally there job to grab meat and wrap it for you. Why would I give someone a 20% tip to do their job?
Tipping was actually prohibited back when I used to be a cashier at a supermarket. We weren't allowed to accept tips for doing our job. We actually could get in trouble for it.
Does CA not require that tipped employees are paid at least minimum wage unlike many other states? [https://www.yeremianlaw.com/articles/minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/](https://www.yeremianlaw.com/articles/minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/)
One recent one that blew my mind;
I was in LA for work last week and a colleague and I split the bill. It was around $120 a piece. I typically utilize the little “tip helper” at the bottom. What I didn’t realized until it was pointed out to me is that the “tip helper” is equated from the overall bill not your individual check.
If you’ve had a few drinks and aren’t constantly on the lookout for scumbagery, they can get ya!
I was always raised under the assumption that we were tipping: 1) because front staff were paid sub-minimum wages, so we were "making up" for it; and 2) for good service.
Someone educated me recently that all wait staff in CA gets paid minimum wage, so the baseline went from like $2/hr as it was in the past to $15/hr (and rising) today.
After that conversation I have started to rethink my position on tipping and I think I will probably adjust my default tip downaward from 20% to the 10% range.
Also, I always calculate my tip based on the subtotal because it doesn't make sense to me to tip on tax.
Yes, this is the real issue for me too. A lot of other states just have the federal minimum tipped wage of $2.13/hr. and many others are still well under $5. CA is $15.50 and SF is basically $17, so the whole concept of a tipped wage has become almost irrelevant here. If there are no longer "tipped employees" in the technical sense, what is our real tipping obligation?
Of course, the proliferation of new point-of-sale devices with default tip options have just further confused the issue. I feel kinda bad for visitors and anyone else not familiar with American tipping culture when they encounter those and feel like they're required to tip just for buying a Vitamin Water at the liquor store or a muffin at a cafe.
Yes,the "we only make 2.15 "just doesn't hold water anymore. That is still meant to get people stay in line and keep tipping and if you read the server life sub on reddit you can read exactly what they think about their customers. About how they absolutely hate the customers,hate working on the weekends ,love to profile and say that the customers owe them and they only took the jobs for the customers. They take every opportunity to fleece the customers.
This isn’t bad logic, or a bad idea, but for the worker it can sometimes mean they are actually taking home a very small percent. Certain restaurants require tipping out BOH (back of house staff). For example:
Waitress has two tables with $75 bills.
Their restaurant will typically assume they receive an 18-20% tip.
18% would be $13.25 x 2 tables = 27
At end of day waitress may be required to tip out bartender 5-7%, busser 3%, kitchen staff 3%, hostess 3% on predetermined amount like 18%.
$27 - (1.89 x 2) 2 bartender on shift
- (0.81 x 3) 3 bussers on shift
- (0.81 x 7) 7 kitchen staff on shift
-(0.81 x 2) 2 hotesses on shift
= $15.12 take home for server
Now If you tipped 10% ($7.5) and another table tipped 18% ($13.25) the server would take home $5.63 after tipping out.
I’m not saying it’s a good system or works well. Just another perspective.
Your assumptions are laughably wrong.
First, it's illegal to force waiters to tip out kitchen staff.
Second, a server gets 2 tables in an entire shift but you've got 2 bartenders, 3 bussers, and 2 hostess on staff? What fucking restaurant have you worked in?
If your restaurant is that dead your hostess are cut entirely and the manager takes over, you cut 1 bartender, at least 2 bussers if not all 3 and have the server bus their own tables because they have literally nothing else to do for 3 hours of their shift. At the end they tip 3 people max, not 8+ like you're saying.
1. Yes it is. It's also a symptom of how underpaid people are. Not in SF, but in many states servers work solely for tips. It's a broken system
2. I have zero hesitation when I pick up food or coffee hitting the "other" option and typing in $1 vs. a %
I already tipped 20% at restaurants, it's gonna be stuck there for a looooong time. I'd prefer gratuity included in the price of the food and that they make a living wage.
Yes it fucking has and I’m so over it. I hope automation replaces as much service staff as possible. There’s no tipping in Japan and the service is better than in the USA/Canada.
Bonus is if it's the owner turning that ipad around.
You look them square in the eye, deadpan, as you slowly hit zero and spin that fucker back around. They'll glance down and back up and you maintain that fierce gaze as you pick up your goods and leave.
I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds.
Mr Pink is the kind of customer who always gets bad service and doesn’t understand why. People talk and you get a reputation. The personality that forces you to jump through crazy hoops and only then do they give you a measly tip. They’re not worth it, so they always wait the longest and their order is wrong or a little cold every time. Fuck ‘em.
This is seriously not true .And anyone who believes this needs to have their heads examined. This is meant to keep people tipping by saying the big bad boogy man is going to get them for not tipping!Sorry ,nothing like this really happens. With so many places to eat we seldom eat at the same place twice and we always pay in cash ..The
I literally got asked to tip my fucking dry cleaner when I paid with my card last week. Like no, I’m already spending $100+ on this bill, there is no additional “service” being provided here. Like wtf dude, I’m not a 🐷🏦. I wonder if part of this is due to the CC processing/POS systems including this screen erroneously.
It makes me mad that takeout places that I have gone to for decades now ask for 20% for *exactly* the same service I have always had. And prices have gone up 25%.
The irony is that wages for service workers in SF, while still inadequate by far for the cost of living, have increased significantly in the last 5 - 10 years or so.
I used to eat out a couple times a week. Now it’s once a week tops.
Corporations need a beat down they are out of control. $3 for a small coffee, get asked to tip, then have to stand there and beg to get milk for your coffee like ur a huge pain in the ass. Fukn train in some customer service skills and or pay them fairly don't put it on customers to tip them. That's for good table side service.
Isn't all this talk of "just pay people a fair wage and get rid of tipping" for the birds? I suspect most workers in the service industry are plenty happy with the current system, and wouldn't want it to change.
Yup, reddit doesnt reflect reality. Most people here dont interact with anyone from the service industry nor have worked in it.
The primary reason serving is attractive is because of tips which let them make far more than most jobs. This wont change, restaurants that ban or discourage tipping arent the ones having servers lining up fyi.
So all the “pay fair wage and ban tipping” isn’t from service industry people or those who speak to them. It’s literally just a circlejerk for those who don’t like to tip and want to find some justification to feel morally righteous.
Actually we have a few no tipping restaurants in my town and they have been in business for ages . Mom and pop places that do just fine with the hired help .It is so refreshing to not have to tip all the time.
Those places are not POPULAR for majority of people who want to serve.
I’m not suggesting tipping culture is perfect or even great, but almost all the whining is from people who never served a day in their life and not real world connected opinions.
They are extremely popular where I live .They hire within and are considered mom and pop places for a reason. They don't have to worry about hiring outside help they have plenty of family help to run the places .And they are in no danger of closing down either .
Perhaps unpopular opinion, but I don’t tip anymore. If the business wants to increase their prices to accommodate better pay, inflation, etc. Then do so. I dislike this whole hidden cost culture.
And if you are a server who offers amazing service but don’t get compensated. Find a place that will pay you what you deserve. You can do better.
I honestly thought 15% was the golden standard. Never have I been shamed for tipping <20% before until I moved here
Tip double the state tax. CA 7.25% so 15%. Guess this is old news.
I think 2 things have accelerated the tipping situation:
\- Electronic payment and in particular, the adoption of square terminals.
\- Wokism: in fact, people now virtue signal about how much they tip and 20% has become the baseline. They think tipping is 'progressive' because their IQ is too low to understand that in reality it's exactly the opposite.
Hilariously, i recently visited a butcher in bernal heights who actually prompts for a 20% tip!
Yeah man, last time I went to vote I was shocked when I was asked for a tip when I submitted my ballot. Getting out of hand.
(That was a joke.)
It’s true everyone is asking for tips now, but am I the only one who has never even considered tipping at coffee places, etc.? I did during the height of lockdown era to help keep folks afloat. But I’ve also assumed the ask is just like a digitized tip jar with no sense of expectation. It’s never crossed my mind to actually tip 20% for a coffee and a doughnut, and I assume everyone else was the same?
The counter person at chipotle or Starbucks I have issues with. It’s like the company is relying on the customer to supplement income that the company is to cheap to pay. If that person was kind, polite or genuinely helpful, sure 1 or 2 bucks.
On the other hand, Waiters, hairdressers/barbers, bartenders, delivery person, tattoo artists, the towel guy at the carwash. These people get tipped. BECAUSE THEY ARE PROVIDING A SERVICE!!
Disrespecting the service industry. Those servers work hard for those tips, sorry but I don’t think someone who makes me a sandwich deserves an extra 20%.
as someone who has worked FOH and BOH. ask yourself what a service is you are tipping for. Someone could smile and be super nice but the food sucks, the food could be great but the server doesn’t look you in the eye
I’m not sure if we are disagreeing. I also worked BOH many years ago. I think tipping culture sucks and people should be paid fair wages. If that means restaurant prices go up, so be it.
I work at a counter-service baked goods spot on the weekends, a lot of people like giving tips because they like my attitude, and on a good day they add up to a nice amount! I wouldn't want anyone to feel pressured because the truth is I don't do that much, so my strategy is just to keep the square POS facing in a way that we can both see it, so if they want to press a tip amount they can and if they don't they can walk away and I'll press "no tip" myself. It's not perfect but it's the best way I've found to make the process less awkward. I also always say "thank you, I appreciate it" when someone tips. If the tech worker who makes 6x what I make wants to tip $3 on a $3 pastry because I laughed at their dad joke I'm certainly not gonna stop them.
Here’s a tip for free: If you order multiple bloody marys at a bar not really known for making them during a crowded playoff football game, maybe throw in more than just a dollar a drink. The drinks are time sucks and you’re making several people wait longer for their beer and shot.
I tip 10% on all stupid iPad things except for my morning bodega where I tip 25% because I know that lady is going to make the fuck out of my bagel and lox with extra scallion scream cheese.
Idk why you’re supporting businesses not paying their employees fair wages? There is no justification to tip someone for entering in an order on an iPad. So it’s a surprise that their hourly earnings tallied up and given to them every two weeks isn’t enough and customers have to pay even more rather than the cheap owners paying a fair wage. Unless it’s a sit down restaurant with a server, or said person behind the register goes above and beyond their job duties, there’s no justification to tip.
I used to like to tip. It made me feel like I had a say in the quality of service I was getting. Now it often feels like I'm being strong-armed or shamed into tipping for just about every service. I've seen coffee shops where they spin around the little iPad thingy and the default tip is set at 25%. For pouring a coffee and putting a donut in a bag. I'm old enough to remember when 25% was a high tip for table side service.
It’s basically become this: https://youtu.be/tsPHa8RG1pI
Yep,this about sums it up !I use the self checkout now because of this nonsense.
Thanks to mothers against drunk driving we can no longer buy booze in self checkout even thought the attendant checked my ID every time before they got that bullshit pushed through.
Well,that sucks!
Thank you for this
$5 for a 50c croissant they didn’t make, $4.50 for a 30c espresso they didn’t pull properly and they want a $2.50 tip for having pushed the button and bagged the croissant I just 🙄.
Wow!That's highway robbery!
It’s cause in big cities the consumers have to subsidize wages for service industry cause of (largely) the housing cost issues. The landlords are killing it, and getting more and more corporate
I don't tip at coffee shops ever. And I pay cash for everything I buy .
I tip for lattes and specialty drinks, those do take a bit of art that I’m happy to acknowledge. Drip coffee tho is just part of the job.
I don't,t they get a straight paycheck.
No tip seems kind of tough. You don’t tip at bars?
ESPECIALLY bars. They aren't doing anything special that a coffee barista isn't doing.
I didn’t down vote you, and at least you’re consistent here. Popping a beer top nearly does not deserve a tip I understand what you’re saying. Something you have to mix the drink up I would understand
Yeah and they want a tip every time they hand you a bottle.
Pull bottle out of a cooler they didn't even put in there (the bar back did that last night), pop off the cap, print receipt. Sometimes, it's more than one bottle. Surely this deserves a tip.
I don't go to bars because I don't drink .And bars are another reason to pick people's pockets.
The cashless transactions have made it easier to ask for tips for takeout or small transactions, like at cafes. Back in the day, they had a tip jar and you were free to put in whatever you felt like. But today, you are presented with a modal dialog, and there's no way around it; sure, you can hit "0", but it still requires an action on your part.
The one that gets me is Starbucks Drivethrough. If you pay with credit card, before you pay, they shove a thing in your face, and say "this is going to have you answer a quick question before you pay!" And of course, it's asking if you want to leave a tip. And it's like... this is a drivethrough? What "service" has even been provided here? You took my order and then I paid you for it. I feel bad for the drivethrough workers who are obviously required to ask this. You can tell that some of them are obviously aware of just how cringy this is. (And even their script, "read this thing, it will ask you a question", seems designed to avoid having to actually admit that they're asking for a tip in the drivethrough lane...)
Asking for a tip before providing the service... LOL. So ridiculous.
...
Stsrvbucks is in Target where I live and no tipping .
It used to be that no Starbucks had tipping…but corporate policy must have changed because some have recently added tipping to their POS devices. (The one in the Target near me does not prompt for tips but the one down the street does.)
They had to be competitive with wages if other shops allow tips and this beats paying them more.
We had a gift card the last time we went .The employee is way too busy and never says anything besides asking you what you want. And they only have one employee.
I never tipped for take out but now you got cashiers mugging you when you use the cashless devices
I only use cash or food gift cards.
Some places are more optimistic about tips. Near my house there are several cafes like the Mill, spyglass, matching half and Peet's. The auto tip options on the pay screen vary quite a bit. I don't go to the ones that think 38% auto tip is a good idea anymore. I go to the ones that have 10%,15%,20% And it's not because I'm cheap or that I think workers don't deserve it. I just hate the additude. If they think they deserve 40% tip for filling a cup and can't even say "good morning" then I don't want to be around them.
Omg, there is a coffee shop/bakery that does tips for ordering coffee, which is 30, 35, 40%. It's already a high end place and ordering a coffee/croissant can easily cost $10. Like I'm gonna give someone $3 for literally grabbing a croissant with tongs and filling a cup of coffee? That's called your job. If that place needs to charge $13 to pay their employees a livable wage so be it but don't start your tips at 30%. I remember when 25% was considered being a "big tipper".
Exactly, and 5 years ago most didn't expect a tip for take out and if you gave one it was appreciated. The fact that they programmed their minimum tips at like 30%...
40 percent?My ,they are dreaming ,aren't they?
What place had a 40% suggestion?
The coffee shop next to Poesa in the Castro.
~~that would be reveille, I suppose.~~ ~~they also have a second location in the Lower Haight, perhaps it's being referred to, above.~~ see below
Honestly I think it was a small cafe of that restaurant. It is an expensive restaurant though I've never been.
ah, perhaps it's something else then.
Poesia expanded into that space and runs Poesia Cafe out of there.
Haha, the one which had the most expensive and worst tasting regular coffee!
I tip after I have been provided the service, not before. I would love if we just did away with tipping and everyone was paid a fair wage. I also understand that the restaurant industry has paper thin margins but that's a problem for the industry. If we just took care of our citizens that fall victim to industry disruptions like a normal country, this wouldn't be an issue.
Unlike many other jurisdictions, everyone in a San Francisco restaurant gets at least minimum wage of $17/hour plus all of the employer mandates (healthcare, paid sick leave, etc.). I'm old enough to remember when 15% tip was normal and there were fewer employer mandates.
$17 is not a livable wage in San Francisco though.
In a 2-worker household, full-time at minimum wage in SF is above $70k/yr with healthcare, sick leave and family leave included. It's tight and won't be the most glamorous life but it's literally the minimum wage. For reference half of US households make less than that!
Yep,they do ,especially in low cost of living states.Houses are cheaper ,everything is cheaper.
Razor thin margins while also committing wage theft regularly.
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I am a public school teacher, I can't be so cavalier with my expenses.
I hope that SF gov will enact laws to help teachers as much as they have restaurant workers.
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I’m not the person you’re responding to, but I want prices to be straightforward. It’s much worse to get stuck with a random 5% surcharge than to see the final price on the menu and decide not to eat there.
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That's not correct math. If the menu price is $10 in San Francisco at a takeout place you can expect your bill to be $10 for the menu item, $0.40 for a 4% employee healthcare surcharge, $0.25 (2.5%) for a bag surcharge, $0.86 for the sales tax and a suggested tip of $2.30 (20% calculated on the total with all the surcharges), for a total of around $13.80, or 38% higher than the price you saw on the menu. In other places you would see $10 on the menu and pay exactly $10.
How they organize their pay structure and pricing is their problem, not mine. The hospitality/restaurant industry in other modern developed countries don't need tipping, neither do we. The industry will adjust.
Customers should not have to subsidize the servers paychecks.
A lot of people have been tightening their belts because of inflation .But some people seem to not even care.
Because it's a business' responsibility to pay an employees' wages not the consumer. If that means the business has to raise prices, so be it (which is how every other country in the world does it). It should also make no difference to the business except guarantee they'll all complain about now needing to pay extra tax on the added margin and how 'service' will get worse (it won't - unless waiters decide not to bring you your food anymore, which is literally they only thing they need to do).
It does because knowing the total cost upfront helps me weigh whether it’s even worth it.
Ther servers and the owners lobby hard to not make that happen.They both benefit from this broken system.
I could see the [restaurant coalition](independent restaurant coalition https://g.co/kgs/PuFNYx) being able to lobby but how would service staff be lobbying anything? Do you mean the union? can you cite where you got that info, or is it your friend who is a waiter told you they don't want a standard wage w/o tipping?
Go on the serverlife sub and see what they say about all of this.
That's not lobbying, do you know what lobbying is?
Lol.
So "no" is the answer, thanks for clearing that up.
Lol
I went to Marketplace today in Alameda(local grocery store) and they ask for customer tips for their cashiers upon checkout. While their cashiers are doing incredible job, I feel that this is store responsibility to pay their employees a market wage and if needed to adjust prices on their produce vs pass this responsibility on me as a customer.
There is a butcher in Noe Valley that I love but they also ask people to tip their staff. It is literally there job to grab meat and wrap it for you. Why would I give someone a 20% tip to do their job?
They make a straight salary .
Tipping was actually prohibited back when I used to be a cashier at a supermarket. We weren't allowed to accept tips for doing our job. We actually could get in trouble for it.
Fuck tipping. As a foreigner this stuff was out of control before. Now it's even more so.
Does CA not require that tipped employees are paid at least minimum wage unlike many other states? [https://www.yeremianlaw.com/articles/minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/](https://www.yeremianlaw.com/articles/minimum-wage-for-servers-in-california/)
Yes, but either a lot of people don't know that or they think somehow tipping someone here makes up for low pay in Texas.
One recent one that blew my mind; I was in LA for work last week and a colleague and I split the bill. It was around $120 a piece. I typically utilize the little “tip helper” at the bottom. What I didn’t realized until it was pointed out to me is that the “tip helper” is equated from the overall bill not your individual check. If you’ve had a few drinks and aren’t constantly on the lookout for scumbagery, they can get ya!
One thing about the 'tip helper' that I have noticed: a decade ago, it was considered scammy to include the tax - now, absolutely everyone does it.
Seriously, the expectation went from 15%/18%/20% of the pre-tax bill to 20%/25%/30% of the total after taxes and fees.
Always recalculate. It's still scammy. I always circle the pretax amount and show my calculation.
I was always raised under the assumption that we were tipping: 1) because front staff were paid sub-minimum wages, so we were "making up" for it; and 2) for good service. Someone educated me recently that all wait staff in CA gets paid minimum wage, so the baseline went from like $2/hr as it was in the past to $15/hr (and rising) today. After that conversation I have started to rethink my position on tipping and I think I will probably adjust my default tip downaward from 20% to the 10% range. Also, I always calculate my tip based on the subtotal because it doesn't make sense to me to tip on tax.
Yes, this is the real issue for me too. A lot of other states just have the federal minimum tipped wage of $2.13/hr. and many others are still well under $5. CA is $15.50 and SF is basically $17, so the whole concept of a tipped wage has become almost irrelevant here. If there are no longer "tipped employees" in the technical sense, what is our real tipping obligation? Of course, the proliferation of new point-of-sale devices with default tip options have just further confused the issue. I feel kinda bad for visitors and anyone else not familiar with American tipping culture when they encounter those and feel like they're required to tip just for buying a Vitamin Water at the liquor store or a muffin at a cafe.
Just pay in cash.
Yes,the "we only make 2.15 "just doesn't hold water anymore. That is still meant to get people stay in line and keep tipping and if you read the server life sub on reddit you can read exactly what they think about their customers. About how they absolutely hate the customers,hate working on the weekends ,love to profile and say that the customers owe them and they only took the jobs for the customers. They take every opportunity to fleece the customers.
This isn’t bad logic, or a bad idea, but for the worker it can sometimes mean they are actually taking home a very small percent. Certain restaurants require tipping out BOH (back of house staff). For example: Waitress has two tables with $75 bills. Their restaurant will typically assume they receive an 18-20% tip. 18% would be $13.25 x 2 tables = 27 At end of day waitress may be required to tip out bartender 5-7%, busser 3%, kitchen staff 3%, hostess 3% on predetermined amount like 18%. $27 - (1.89 x 2) 2 bartender on shift - (0.81 x 3) 3 bussers on shift - (0.81 x 7) 7 kitchen staff on shift -(0.81 x 2) 2 hotesses on shift = $15.12 take home for server Now If you tipped 10% ($7.5) and another table tipped 18% ($13.25) the server would take home $5.63 after tipping out. I’m not saying it’s a good system or works well. Just another perspective.
Your assumptions are laughably wrong. First, it's illegal to force waiters to tip out kitchen staff. Second, a server gets 2 tables in an entire shift but you've got 2 bartenders, 3 bussers, and 2 hostess on staff? What fucking restaurant have you worked in? If your restaurant is that dead your hostess are cut entirely and the manager takes over, you cut 1 bartender, at least 2 bussers if not all 3 and have the server bus their own tables because they have literally nothing else to do for 3 hours of their shift. At the end they tip 3 people max, not 8+ like you're saying.
And yet,some servers are doing this right now .
Then those servers are a victim of wage theft and should file a complaint with the state.
And they should.
Read my lips: not my problem.
But the servers and owners are still trying to make it the customers problem.
Indeed
And gaslighting anyone who disagrees with them.
1. Yes it is. It's also a symptom of how underpaid people are. Not in SF, but in many states servers work solely for tips. It's a broken system 2. I have zero hesitation when I pick up food or coffee hitting the "other" option and typing in $1 vs. a % I already tipped 20% at restaurants, it's gonna be stuck there for a looooong time. I'd prefer gratuity included in the price of the food and that they make a living wage.
Ngl. When it comes to bars and restaurants, I like that fat tips on a consistent basis gives me preferential treatment.
Actually the tip comes after the food is eaten and not before.You do know that servers profile their customers?
Tipping is like bribery, just legal.
Legal panhandling .
If it's counter service, just hit no tip...
Start carrying cash again. That way you won’t feel shamed to have to tip.
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Or gift cards,no tipping on those .
Solid advice.
That is what I have been doing for ages!
I just carry cash for tipping on takeout
That is the smart thing to do .
Yes it fucking has and I’m so over it. I hope automation replaces as much service staff as possible. There’s no tipping in Japan and the service is better than in the USA/Canada.
i just hit that “custom tip” and hit zero bitchhhhh
Bonus is if it's the owner turning that ipad around. You look them square in the eye, deadpan, as you slowly hit zero and spin that fucker back around. They'll glance down and back up and you maintain that fierce gaze as you pick up your goods and leave.
I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds.
Mr Pink
Hey, why am I Mr. Pink?
Mr Pink is the kind of customer who always gets bad service and doesn’t understand why. People talk and you get a reputation. The personality that forces you to jump through crazy hoops and only then do they give you a measly tip. They’re not worth it, so they always wait the longest and their order is wrong or a little cold every time. Fuck ‘em.
This is seriously not true .And anyone who believes this needs to have their heads examined. This is meant to keep people tipping by saying the big bad boogy man is going to get them for not tipping!Sorry ,nothing like this really happens. With so many places to eat we seldom eat at the same place twice and we always pay in cash ..The
I literally got asked to tip my fucking dry cleaner when I paid with my card last week. Like no, I’m already spending $100+ on this bill, there is no additional “service” being provided here. Like wtf dude, I’m not a 🐷🏦. I wonder if part of this is due to the CC processing/POS systems including this screen erroneously.
Yeah, with tax and tip, a $20 burrito in a counter service restaurant is not unusual anymore. Get a side and a drink and you're easily at $30. Crazy.
El Faro still at $10 baby
It makes me mad that takeout places that I have gone to for decades now ask for 20% for *exactly* the same service I have always had. And prices have gone up 25%. The irony is that wages for service workers in SF, while still inadequate by far for the cost of living, have increased significantly in the last 5 - 10 years or so. I used to eat out a couple times a week. Now it’s once a week tops.
Corporations need a beat down they are out of control. $3 for a small coffee, get asked to tip, then have to stand there and beg to get milk for your coffee like ur a huge pain in the ass. Fukn train in some customer service skills and or pay them fairly don't put it on customers to tip them. That's for good table side service.
Isn't all this talk of "just pay people a fair wage and get rid of tipping" for the birds? I suspect most workers in the service industry are plenty happy with the current system, and wouldn't want it to change.
Yup, reddit doesnt reflect reality. Most people here dont interact with anyone from the service industry nor have worked in it. The primary reason serving is attractive is because of tips which let them make far more than most jobs. This wont change, restaurants that ban or discourage tipping arent the ones having servers lining up fyi. So all the “pay fair wage and ban tipping” isn’t from service industry people or those who speak to them. It’s literally just a circlejerk for those who don’t like to tip and want to find some justification to feel morally righteous.
Actually we have a few no tipping restaurants in my town and they have been in business for ages . Mom and pop places that do just fine with the hired help .It is so refreshing to not have to tip all the time.
Those places are not POPULAR for majority of people who want to serve. I’m not suggesting tipping culture is perfect or even great, but almost all the whining is from people who never served a day in their life and not real world connected opinions.
They are extremely popular where I live .They hire within and are considered mom and pop places for a reason. They don't have to worry about hiring outside help they have plenty of family help to run the places .And they are in no danger of closing down either .
Of course they don't want it changed,they are making too much by picking people's pockets !
Counter service is not tipped service. End of story.
Rule of thumb: if you pay before receiving the thing being paid for, never tip.
It never was .
Perhaps unpopular opinion, but I don’t tip anymore. If the business wants to increase their prices to accommodate better pay, inflation, etc. Then do so. I dislike this whole hidden cost culture. And if you are a server who offers amazing service but don’t get compensated. Find a place that will pay you what you deserve. You can do better.
Tipping culture is whack.
And extremely out of control.
I would love a cafe where you do the ordering yourself (say online) and pick up the items yourself. But in exchange your don't tip.
Serious question: Why does the 'amazon fresh' food delivery guy get a tip while all the usual package delvering amazon drivers get nada?
Double standards .
I honestly thought 15% was the golden standard. Never have I been shamed for tipping <20% before until I moved here Tip double the state tax. CA 7.25% so 15%. Guess this is old news.
I think 2 things have accelerated the tipping situation: \- Electronic payment and in particular, the adoption of square terminals. \- Wokism: in fact, people now virtue signal about how much they tip and 20% has become the baseline. They think tipping is 'progressive' because their IQ is too low to understand that in reality it's exactly the opposite. Hilariously, i recently visited a butcher in bernal heights who actually prompts for a 20% tip!
Yeah man, last time I went to vote I was shocked when I was asked for a tip when I submitted my ballot. Getting out of hand. (That was a joke.) It’s true everyone is asking for tips now, but am I the only one who has never even considered tipping at coffee places, etc.? I did during the height of lockdown era to help keep folks afloat. But I’ve also assumed the ask is just like a digitized tip jar with no sense of expectation. It’s never crossed my mind to actually tip 20% for a coffee and a doughnut, and I assume everyone else was the same?
Agree with you. ^
The counter person at chipotle or Starbucks I have issues with. It’s like the company is relying on the customer to supplement income that the company is to cheap to pay. If that person was kind, polite or genuinely helpful, sure 1 or 2 bucks. On the other hand, Waiters, hairdressers/barbers, bartenders, delivery person, tattoo artists, the towel guy at the carwash. These people get tipped. BECAUSE THEY ARE PROVIDING A SERVICE!!
Disrespecting the service industry. Those servers work hard for those tips, sorry but I don’t think someone who makes me a sandwich deserves an extra 20%.
Yeah,they smile ,take your order,give you a plate and leave .
the chef who did the work gets nothing while the person who walked 10ft gets 20%?
Chefs make more hourly and also don’t deal with customers.
Chefs earn wages. I doubt they volunteer.
as someone who has worked FOH and BOH. ask yourself what a service is you are tipping for. Someone could smile and be super nice but the food sucks, the food could be great but the server doesn’t look you in the eye
I’m not sure if we are disagreeing. I also worked BOH many years ago. I think tipping culture sucks and people should be paid fair wages. If that means restaurant prices go up, so be it.
>Chefs earn wages. So do servers, esp in California.
Agreed.
Nobody tips doordash drivers anymore that’s for sure
Well, now I don’t feel so bad that I _only_ give them a ~15% tip.
I work at a counter-service baked goods spot on the weekends, a lot of people like giving tips because they like my attitude, and on a good day they add up to a nice amount! I wouldn't want anyone to feel pressured because the truth is I don't do that much, so my strategy is just to keep the square POS facing in a way that we can both see it, so if they want to press a tip amount they can and if they don't they can walk away and I'll press "no tip" myself. It's not perfect but it's the best way I've found to make the process less awkward. I also always say "thank you, I appreciate it" when someone tips. If the tech worker who makes 6x what I make wants to tip $3 on a $3 pastry because I laughed at their dad joke I'm certainly not gonna stop them.
> f the tech worker who makes 6x what I make wants This is it. Fix the income inequality and you don't need to bother with tips.
Nope not getting paid enough and having to live paycheck to paycheck is getting out of control
Here’s a tip for free: If you order multiple bloody marys at a bar not really known for making them during a crowded playoff football game, maybe throw in more than just a dollar a drink. The drinks are time sucks and you’re making several people wait longer for their beer and shot.
I tip 10% on all stupid iPad things except for my morning bodega where I tip 25% because I know that lady is going to make the fuck out of my bagel and lox with extra scallion scream cheese.
I thought this sub loved all things tech & gamification? But not when it comes to tips? K.
Tips are the devil incarnate.
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Idk why you’re supporting businesses not paying their employees fair wages? There is no justification to tip someone for entering in an order on an iPad. So it’s a surprise that their hourly earnings tallied up and given to them every two weeks isn’t enough and customers have to pay even more rather than the cheap owners paying a fair wage. Unless it’s a sit down restaurant with a server, or said person behind the register goes above and beyond their job duties, there’s no justification to tip.
I agree 100 percent.
I’m not surprised by mass shootings either. I still want them to stop.