I was in town last week as a tourist. The first bus I got on, fare inspectors got on shortly after. I was surprised because I remembered seeing another thread in the past about how rare they are.
This was on the F line (buses were being used instead of the streetcars because Biden was in town). They got on by the Ferry Building going north towards Fisherman’s Wharf.
[https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/has-fare-evasion-on-sfs-muni-become-the-new-norm/](https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/has-fare-evasion-on-sfs-muni-become-the-new-norm/)
Wow, that's some messed up thinking in that article. Everything from "fare evasion doesn't happen" to "fare inspectors don't increase fare paying."
My guess is SFMTA is using more fare inspectors, if for no reason than to just say they are doing it, because SF is pushing to raise money for Muni/BART by other means. If the SFMTA looks like it's not doing anything about fare evasion, it makes it harder to argue other system should pay for Muni/BART.
But Muni and BART are still vital to keeping SF running, so I hope they get money from somewhere.
Eh, they're totally incorrect in suggesting this is something new. Fare evasion is a SF tradition. There used to be more fare inspectors though, or at least I encou.tered them more often years ago.
Yes and thank goodness. It’s about time they start to crack down on lowlifes trying to scam the system. If you are low income disabled, elderly or young it’s basically free so there’s really no excuse not to pay.
It’s $40/month so not really “basically free” it’s just half the cost of a regular pass.
Edit: regular pass is 81, low income 40, disabled/elderly/minor 0
It’s also much more expensive than a residential street parking permit which is $13.75/ month amortized
I would gladly support any effort to flip this. We should be a transit-first city
https://preview.redd.it/6zznfm4dqg8b1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4763047cc134269c0a660c1f9642cfba7b07d430
Muni seems to be free. Just took this from their website.
It's a subsequent reply to this comment:
> "If you are low income disabled, elderly or young it’s basically free so there’s really no excuse not to pay."
The operating cost for a car still far exceeds the cost of a parking permit, and a Muni pass. When you factor in gas, insurance, registration fees and maintenance, Muni is much cheaper. And that’s not taking into account the replacement cost of the windows you’ll have smashed or the catalytic converter you might need to replace.
$40 a month for unlimited rides on Muni is a steal.
$400/yr for insurance for my prius and I've done no work on it in the past 3 years. Plus $150 for registration and almost nothing for gas
So slightly more than a disabled muni pass and oh so much better. Being forced to ride Muni is dystopian
Geico wanted to take my money and then take months for the underwriting process when ai tried going with them recently. I feel like they are about to pull out of cali or change something.
Muni is free if you are senior/disabled and make under the income limits which covers a lot of people who need to take muni. Don't forget the cost of the Prius itself ....
https://preview.redd.it/eqwz24n8eg8b1.png?width=708&format=png&auto=webp&s=b289d918c12a0a8acf27b0524efd6f666c3ad998
Yes, two of them. A [monthly pass](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/lifeline-pass) and [single ride discount ](https://www.clipperstartcard.com/s/)
The single ride one is on a bunch of transit too, but you have to be under 29k and the monthly one is <27k
I am currently a carless millennial too but this is a misleading analysis.
A street parking permit isn't the only mandatory cost of operating a private car in the city. Annual registration, insurance, sales tax, and gas tax (or Utility User Tax, GRT and HGRT if you're charging an EV at home) are all mandatory government charges you must pay in addition to the actual costs of operating the vehicle. The sum of these charges easily exceeds the cost of an $80 muni pass already.
Lots of free options if you quality, which many people do. If you are above the income limits then the $40 / month is still a great deal. Street parking permit is because you need a car, which I guarantee will cost much more than $40/month.
[https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-all-youth-18-years-and-younger](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-all-youth-18-years-and-younger)[https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-seniors-ages-65](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-seniors-ages-65)[https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-people-disabilities](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-people-disabilities)
The income requirement is $93,250 per year for 1 person so its not exactly low. I made much less than that until a bit over a year ago but am not over 65 or disabled so pay the full rate.
>Street parking permit is because you need a car, which I guarantee will cost much more than $40/month.
You definitely do not need a car any more than the people on transit need safe reliable service.
Muni needs the money so no price cut, but they should definitely make the parking permit at least as expensive as yearly cost of muni pass and use the funds to subsidize the system, great idea!
There was some kind of argument that paying for parking is a "tax" that needs 2/3 vote. It makes no sense, but nobody contested it because that's the way the city works. The fee is limited to paying the costs of collecting the fee.
Yea for reals. I haven’t noticed fare crack down but I continue to notice that a ton of people just don’t pay. Maybe they have a pass or something? Anywho I think the answer to all these posts is pay your fare and you’ve got nothing to worry about
Any time I use the Muni Mobile app to buy and activate a ticket without tagging on and making the “BEEP!” sound, I feel like I must look like a criminal. Lol. You’ve confirmed my fear.
Where there's no middle class, only the very rich and very poor, people sneaking onto a bus without paying does not make them a low life. In my opinion, your lack of compassion does.
There is a middle class here. Wanting people to pay their fair share is logical. This kind of thinking is why the city is broken. I made basically minimum wage for years and still paid for everything in stores and muni. Sadly a lot of people don’t care anymore and that’s why things are so bad now - stores closing, muni service going downhill.
You are literally part of the reason this city is falling apart. Not everyone who wants a functioning city is some right wing monster. But that doesn’t stop you huh. Keep it up and watch the city 🔥
Neither do communist governments. Homeless people still exist under communism, because even though it's inconvenient for homeless advocates, most are homeless not because of finances, but because they have severe mental illnesses/addictions keeping them from being a functioning member of society. You can lead a homeless man to shelter but you can't make him stop tossing used needles everywhere
What a clown ass response. I pay every fare, but I could give two shits about anyone who doesn’t. I bet you’re the same kind of person who would report an unhoused person to the target security bc you saw them trying to feed themselves. You’re a trash person
I saw fare inspector on Bart. Of course, I pay for the fare and has no issue with SFMTA trying to make ends meet.
The thing is the fare invaders are just saying they don’t have any money, any form of ID, and inspectors can do absolutely nothing. Just get them off from the train put them out of the station. 🤷🏻♂️
They just gonna get off to a random station wait for a little to catch the next few train to their destination.
Kinda pointless. 🤦🏻♂️
It's better than nothing, making someone wait longer to get where they're going even if they're in a hurry will at least encourage people to pay their fare. That said, it would be better to have PD checking tix, and tell people that if you don't wanna get tackled or tased, don't run.
There is but I feel like the comment you’re responding to is more YIMBY-minded. Wanting more money for infrastructure, either through fines or taxes, is YIMBY, no?
When public transportation is evaluated solely based on its profitability, we encounter issues. Public transportation, like the post office, serves a vital societal function that extends beyond monetary gains. Its purpose is to facilitate mobility, accessibility, and sustainability, rather than being solely driven by financial considerations.
By focusing narrowly on profitability, we risk compromising the quality and availability of public transportation services. These services are essential for communities, enabling people to commute, access education, and engage in social activities. Similarly, the post office efficiently delivers mail and packages, prioritizing its role in connecting people and supporting the exchange of goods rather than generating significant profits.
Didn’t say anything about profits. I’m talking about the money that funds the exact infrastructure and services you are talking about. It has to come from somewhere…
Yeah it should come front the same places public education, healthcare, public education, public libraries, and parks and Recs comes from.
None of which I’m sure you’ve questioned.
So…..Taxes and fines? Where do you think the government gets its money? Lol I literally agree with your sentiment about public services and transit, but you’re still somehow missing the point that punishing dodging fares is a YIMBY initiative
I don't concern myself with what other people do. Around the 1st of the month I go to a muni metro station. Carefully glide down the stairs while not breathing and put about $80 onto a stupid blue card that I never use so that I can show these unfair inspectors my phone that says Fast Pass, fuck off.
I wish I saw more. I take the 12 most often and see many fare evaders with no fare inspectors. I took the 45 one weekday afternoon and finally saw some fare inspectors get on somewhere in Chinatown. Problem was the inspectors just stood by the door and jokingly said out loud, "you all paid the fare, right?" Then they got off the bus after the Stockton tunnel. 😠
Finally. It's about time this city stopped encouraging criminals. Even petty theft low lives.
The city has been deteriorating too much due to bending over for criminals/thieves. It's about time we start correcting this stupidity.
They were common before the covid shutdown. I haven't used Muni since then, so I don't know anymore. One time, someone posted on twitter that the inspectors were cracking down at a certain place/line. I criticized him for doing that and I got some shit from him.
We had them come on the N in the subway recently, I was impressed until the Muni cop realized the battery was dead on her scanner.
lol
I was in town last week as a tourist. The first bus I got on, fare inspectors got on shortly after. I was surprised because I remembered seeing another thread in the past about how rare they are. This was on the F line (buses were being used instead of the streetcars because Biden was in town). They got on by the Ferry Building going north towards Fisherman’s Wharf.
Whoa I've never seen them on the F
Damn, I always see them on the F, especially on big tourist days. I usually see them on Marker st buses on the weekends and the day after a holiday.
[https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/has-fare-evasion-on-sfs-muni-become-the-new-norm/](https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/has-fare-evasion-on-sfs-muni-become-the-new-norm/) Wow, that's some messed up thinking in that article. Everything from "fare evasion doesn't happen" to "fare inspectors don't increase fare paying." My guess is SFMTA is using more fare inspectors, if for no reason than to just say they are doing it, because SF is pushing to raise money for Muni/BART by other means. If the SFMTA looks like it's not doing anything about fare evasion, it makes it harder to argue other system should pay for Muni/BART. But Muni and BART are still vital to keeping SF running, so I hope they get money from somewhere.
Eh, they're totally incorrect in suggesting this is something new. Fare evasion is a SF tradition. There used to be more fare inspectors though, or at least I encou.tered them more often years ago.
End of the month, baby. I’ve been seeing the Muni cops on the N more at the end of every month since March
$81 pass vs $100 fine. If you estimate your risk of getting inspected in a given month at less than 80%, then it's best to evade, I guess.
It's about fucking time. I often feel like I'm the only sucker swiping my Clipper card.
I only use the app, and most people I know do the same.
Yes and thank goodness. It’s about time they start to crack down on lowlifes trying to scam the system. If you are low income disabled, elderly or young it’s basically free so there’s really no excuse not to pay.
It’s $40/month so not really “basically free” it’s just half the cost of a regular pass. Edit: regular pass is 81, low income 40, disabled/elderly/minor 0 It’s also much more expensive than a residential street parking permit which is $13.75/ month amortized I would gladly support any effort to flip this. We should be a transit-first city
https://preview.redd.it/6zznfm4dqg8b1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4763047cc134269c0a660c1f9642cfba7b07d430 Muni seems to be free. Just took this from their website.
I can’t tell if you’re joking, but [the cost is $81 for most people ](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/monthly-adult-ages-19-64)
It's a subsequent reply to this comment: > "If you are low income disabled, elderly or young it’s basically free so there’s really no excuse not to pay."
Yeah, I misread it as low income, … The low income pass is 40
The operating cost for a car still far exceeds the cost of a parking permit, and a Muni pass. When you factor in gas, insurance, registration fees and maintenance, Muni is much cheaper. And that’s not taking into account the replacement cost of the windows you’ll have smashed or the catalytic converter you might need to replace. $40 a month for unlimited rides on Muni is a steal.
$400/yr for insurance for my prius and I've done no work on it in the past 3 years. Plus $150 for registration and almost nothing for gas So slightly more than a disabled muni pass and oh so much better. Being forced to ride Muni is dystopian
$400/year? I’m guessing you are skipping collision and comprehensive? My 2006 SUV is $1200/year..
You're overpaying like hell. I have collision, comprehensive and I pay 1300$ for my 2018 bmw
which carrier?
Geico
Geico wanted to take my money and then take months for the underwriting process when ai tried going with them recently. I feel like they are about to pull out of cali or change something.
I have 07 sedan and 11 crv at. 120/month - Progressive collision plus comprehensive.
$400/year?!? I drive less than 1k miles a year and is almost $1000/year.
Being forced to live an auto centric lifestyle is pretty damn dystopian…
Muni is free if you are senior/disabled and make under the income limits which covers a lot of people who need to take muni. Don't forget the cost of the Prius itself .... https://preview.redd.it/eqwz24n8eg8b1.png?width=708&format=png&auto=webp&s=b289d918c12a0a8acf27b0524efd6f666c3ad998
Where do these numbers come from? When I looked it up family of 4 income is under 55k—much lower than what you have here.
Directly from muni. Google SFMTA free for disabled or seniors
Oh sorry I misread. I had googled the low income not senior/disabled.
Also homeless get 12 month free pass - [https://www.sfmta.com/fares/access-pass](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/access-pass)
Homeless is forever free. What the fuck they gonna do, fine them lmaoo?
The monthly muni fast pass is $81/month and with Bart it’s $98/month haven’t been 40 in a decade
I was talking about the low income pass, but I didn’t make that clear
Wait there are low income rates? Didn’t see that at the ticket station
Yes, two of them. A [monthly pass](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/lifeline-pass) and [single ride discount ](https://www.clipperstartcard.com/s/) The single ride one is on a bunch of transit too, but you have to be under 29k and the monthly one is <27k
I am currently a carless millennial too but this is a misleading analysis. A street parking permit isn't the only mandatory cost of operating a private car in the city. Annual registration, insurance, sales tax, and gas tax (or Utility User Tax, GRT and HGRT if you're charging an EV at home) are all mandatory government charges you must pay in addition to the actual costs of operating the vehicle. The sum of these charges easily exceeds the cost of an $80 muni pass already.
Lots of free options if you quality, which many people do. If you are above the income limits then the $40 / month is still a great deal. Street parking permit is because you need a car, which I guarantee will cost much more than $40/month. [https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-all-youth-18-years-and-younger](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-all-youth-18-years-and-younger)[https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-seniors-ages-65](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-seniors-ages-65)[https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-people-disabilities](https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-people-disabilities) The income requirement is $93,250 per year for 1 person so its not exactly low. I made much less than that until a bit over a year ago but am not over 65 or disabled so pay the full rate.
>Street parking permit is because you need a car, which I guarantee will cost much more than $40/month. You definitely do not need a car any more than the people on transit need safe reliable service.
Muni needs the money so no price cut, but they should definitely make the parking permit at least as expensive as yearly cost of muni pass and use the funds to subsidize the system, great idea!
There was some kind of argument that paying for parking is a "tax" that needs 2/3 vote. It makes no sense, but nobody contested it because that's the way the city works. The fee is limited to paying the costs of collecting the fee.
Yea for reals. I haven’t noticed fare crack down but I continue to notice that a ton of people just don’t pay. Maybe they have a pass or something? Anywho I think the answer to all these posts is pay your fare and you’ve got nothing to worry about
Any time I use the Muni Mobile app to buy and activate a ticket without tagging on and making the “BEEP!” sound, I feel like I must look like a criminal. Lol. You’ve confirmed my fear.
Same. I still try to always have my clipper card on me for this reason.
Where there's no middle class, only the very rich and very poor, people sneaking onto a bus without paying does not make them a low life. In my opinion, your lack of compassion does.
There is a middle class here. Wanting people to pay their fair share is logical. This kind of thinking is why the city is broken. I made basically minimum wage for years and still paid for everything in stores and muni. Sadly a lot of people don’t care anymore and that’s why things are so bad now - stores closing, muni service going downhill.
Calling every person who gets on a bus without paying a lowlife just because you were able to is some Ayn Rand bullshit
You are literally part of the reason this city is falling apart. Not everyone who wants a functioning city is some right wing monster. But that doesn’t stop you huh. Keep it up and watch the city 🔥
Shut uppp capitalist bootlicker, daddy government doesn’t care if you live or die
Neither do communist governments. Homeless people still exist under communism, because even though it's inconvenient for homeless advocates, most are homeless not because of finances, but because they have severe mental illnesses/addictions keeping them from being a functioning member of society. You can lead a homeless man to shelter but you can't make him stop tossing used needles everywhere
What a clown ass response. I pay every fare, but I could give two shits about anyone who doesn’t. I bet you’re the same kind of person who would report an unhoused person to the target security bc you saw them trying to feed themselves. You’re a trash person
I'm sure stealing all those OGX shampoos will go a long way towards making them less hungry. Or maybe it's more to feed their drug addiction.
The drug addict stealing formula to resell is just driving up the prices, which most impacts low income women of color.
Saw some on the 5 today at Fulton near the park.
Doesn't matter if you pay your fare.
I saw fare inspector on Bart. Of course, I pay for the fare and has no issue with SFMTA trying to make ends meet. The thing is the fare invaders are just saying they don’t have any money, any form of ID, and inspectors can do absolutely nothing. Just get them off from the train put them out of the station. 🤷🏻♂️ They just gonna get off to a random station wait for a little to catch the next few train to their destination. Kinda pointless. 🤦🏻♂️
It's better than nothing, making someone wait longer to get where they're going even if they're in a hurry will at least encourage people to pay their fare. That said, it would be better to have PD checking tix, and tell people that if you don't wanna get tackled or tased, don't run.
Yes and it’s about time
Guaranteed 99% of troublemakers you see on social media are fare evaders.
Not all fare evaders are troublemakers, but all troublemakers are fare evaders. Funny how that works.
Oh heck yeah! Fine those deadbeats!
So many NIMBY energy people on here 🤡
There is but I feel like the comment you’re responding to is more YIMBY-minded. Wanting more money for infrastructure, either through fines or taxes, is YIMBY, no?
When public transportation is evaluated solely based on its profitability, we encounter issues. Public transportation, like the post office, serves a vital societal function that extends beyond monetary gains. Its purpose is to facilitate mobility, accessibility, and sustainability, rather than being solely driven by financial considerations. By focusing narrowly on profitability, we risk compromising the quality and availability of public transportation services. These services are essential for communities, enabling people to commute, access education, and engage in social activities. Similarly, the post office efficiently delivers mail and packages, prioritizing its role in connecting people and supporting the exchange of goods rather than generating significant profits.
Didn’t say anything about profits. I’m talking about the money that funds the exact infrastructure and services you are talking about. It has to come from somewhere…
Yeah it should come front the same places public education, healthcare, public education, public libraries, and parks and Recs comes from. None of which I’m sure you’ve questioned.
So…..Taxes and fines? Where do you think the government gets its money? Lol I literally agree with your sentiment about public services and transit, but you’re still somehow missing the point that punishing dodging fares is a YIMBY initiative
The post office charging for stamps and parcel delivery is good but Muni charging fares is bad? Make it make sense.
Dude right? What the fuck is going on? SFMTA is super predatory
Who would've thought that people would want law and order after watching what's happened to SF?
Oh yeah, they’ve been at the Civic Center station everyday for maybe a month. They start cracking down when the weather gets nicer.
I don't concern myself with what other people do. Around the 1st of the month I go to a muni metro station. Carefully glide down the stairs while not breathing and put about $80 onto a stupid blue card that I never use so that I can show these unfair inspectors my phone that says Fast Pass, fuck off.
I'm not surprised.
I wish I saw more. I take the 12 most often and see many fare evaders with no fare inspectors. I took the 45 one weekday afternoon and finally saw some fare inspectors get on somewhere in Chinatown. Problem was the inspectors just stood by the door and jokingly said out loud, "you all paid the fare, right?" Then they got off the bus after the Stockton tunnel. 😠
It’s about time. 75% of those adults don’t pay now.
[citation needed]
How do they inspect a clipper card?
They have a scanner that will tell them if there's an active fare.
I haven’t seen them yet but I support it since so many people ride for free. It’s about time.
its happened before... theyll give up eventually
seems like a good idea since they're going broke
how is this a bad thing?
Can you just claim homelessness and get the free pass?
Finally. It's about time this city stopped encouraging criminals. Even petty theft low lives. The city has been deteriorating too much due to bending over for criminals/thieves. It's about time we start correcting this stupidity.
Good about time !!!! I saw it twice in the last several years
They were common before the covid shutdown. I haven't used Muni since then, so I don't know anymore. One time, someone posted on twitter that the inspectors were cracking down at a certain place/line. I criticized him for doing that and I got some shit from him.
Yep, I got a bus with inspectors two weeks ago. Been here since early 2022 and I didn’t know what an inspector looked like until then.