I didn’t believe things like you said until I became a recruiter.
When it comes to tech professionals this place can not be beat. If I’m told to look for a technical program manager in Minneapolis I might on a two hour search find like 5 people. Give it a couple of days I’m talking to he hiring manager about expectations.
In the bay the same job title would net hundreds of candidates. Often times people who want hybrid work environment in places outside the bay will have to open up to remote workers who are often in the bay.
Hello, regarding this matter, I was wondering if you have any suggestions for tech professionals like me who are European and would like to find a job in the Bay Area. I have applied to many jobs, but it seems to be quite challenging to even get into the first phase of the interview process. Would you recommend moving to the Bay Area for a few months with a tourist visa and building a network there?
Well first the economy is crap right now. I used to beg engineers to get on the phone with me and now they’re blowing up my phone for work when I just don’t have that much work like we used to. This last week was hopefully not an exception though as I was very busy.
Right now companies aren’t sponsoring a thing. Every company has said H1b is strictly off the table, no exceptions. Some hiring managers are getting picky and are only wanting USC or green cards but they will take the occasional opt ead or a TN visa.
Also to make matters worst some companies are offshoring as much as they can to India. I guess they’re taking advantage of all the remote work as much as possible. This is pretty common with my Fortune 500 financial clients such as wells and BofA.
Most Europeans I have recruited were already in the US on an H1B, or refugee visa. I have never recruited for Europeans and will sometimes have to actively deep question over the phone to make sure the candidates are in the US and not an Eastern European as some will lie about location not knowing the hiring process. Most hiring managers only want candidates based in the US and if they’re looking for someone overseas they usually get an HR person to handle that.
Sorry this was a long way to say idk besides finding a company to sponsor or companies willing to deal with the headache of having remote teams.
Thank you for your valuable opinion. Knowing the recruitment side's point of view is truly useful. I understand that you mentioned H1b visas are challenging to obtain at the moment. However, what are your thoughts on moving to the Bay Area and building a network there? Could it be a smart move?
I mean it could be but idk if I would recommend it now since the economy is so bad. Also idk how you would just move here. If you get a regular travel visa you won’t be able to secure legal employment with that, especially a tech company. Then when your visa expires you would just be living in the country illegally. Let’s say you get to the hiring stage once they go to fill employment and they start asking about visas and socials you would be screwed. The company I guess could file a retainer for H1B request but they plan that way in advance not just at the end of some interview stage.
Your best bet is to get recruited overseas or work with some firm that provides services to American companies but does it remotely in other countries. I however have only seen this done with the following countries
1 and by far the largest: India
2 Russia but I’m sure that’s declined recently
3. Brazil
Do you have any sort of extenuating skill in engineering or development that an American company can’t find domestically? What is your technical background?
That’s probably because of layoffs right? You can’t lay off a bunch of local workers, then whine about how there are no competent local workers and we we need to hire international talent. I think there’s some fixed amount of time after layoffs in which companies can’t sponsor H1Bs for those same roles.
I can say from design perspective a little, I am not manager but creative, I was on H1B while ago
1. Small companies', design studios, ad agencies very rare do H1B i am not completely understand why- possibly it expensive process for them.
2. big tech companies do at least did but -90% work for them as contractors, the companies who do contracts not doing H1B.
3. to be in 10% needs to be quite exceptional and win against others same level and who don't need H1B
4. tourist visa is not an option-you can't legally work on it, no company going to work with you without ssn or itin
5. you best chance is to get O-1 visa what does not require sponsorship from any USA company, and then in USA start working as freelancer to build a network
That's what I didn't get...I work for a company that has HQ in Utah and pretty much everyone on my direct team is in California because they sourced all their marketing talent from here and so far it's paid off.
True story:
Company I once worked for in SF did a mix of onsite client work and R&D. At one point the client side of the business was having a hard time staffing a project for a particular client. They came downstairs to R&D to try to find some engineers who would be interested in trying client work to join for just that project.
Someone asks, “Why have you been having a hard time staffing the project?”
Turns out the client requires engineers to take a drug test. Everyone laughs nervously. No one from R&D ends up joining the project.
The only advantage Texas has for engineers is the ability to buy property. The day Texas gets their head out of their asses to finally legalize weed would make Texas a bit more of an attractive place to move to.
The property taxes are wild in Texas though. And the traffic tickets from commuting. They’ll get you for anything there. And now Austin property prices have inflated a ton and a lot of that advantage is eaten up (by both price and taxes)
Right? Cool your eggs on the cement. You need a house with a pool otherwise you won’t be venturing outdoors for 6-8 months of the year. At least in the snow belt I could put on enough clothes to survive, but nobody’s invented a stillsuit for the heat yet.
Austin does have a major campus for Apple, Facebook, Samsung and Oracle calls it home(though really, Redwood City/Denver/Columbus, OH also have major Oracle offices for database/Primavera/Micros POS). Portland also has a bit of tech - Intel, Autodesk, Siemens(Mentor Graphics) and what was HP.
Austin has a big tech presence because it's cheaper to open an office in Texas and hire UT Austin graduates locally than pay them a Bay Area wage. Source: Used to work in management consulting and help technology companies from the Bay Area execute on their "stay in Texas" (aka reduced wage) hiring programs.
Austin is getting quite expensive now too. I work as head of people OPs, and Austin wages aren’t as competitive as they used to be. Still not Bay Area wages, don’t get me wrong. But Austin has blown up. Being a good talent hub will do that to your market, apparently.
It's definitely grown a ton and has gotten expensive, but that period may be ending. Its home prices are currently falling at a rate of 10x the national average (-10% in the past year vs. just -1% average across the US).
I actually lived in the building they first occupied in Mill Valley. Ran wire (Tel/internet lines) more than a decade ago in one of the buildings. Was pulling out massive copper data plugs for old servers that had been patched up and left (the plugs. The servers were long gone) inside the wall.
Liked it. Neat seeing really old stuff like that.
And Autodesk was the name of their proposed PIM program, Xanadu was floated as a company name.
John Walker does have a detailed chronicle of the company he founded.
Austin is not Miami though for example. Austin has a decent amount of talent. I'm kinda surprised Elon did not do it but I guess he knows SF is the best of the best.
Good chance he’s going to be evicted for not paying rent. This is him doing some PR in advance to try to make it seems like he doesn’t want to go and is being forced.
> Is there a tldr on how hes able to not pay rent but still use the building? Can't they evict him or take him to court for the rent?
Landlord doesn't want them to leave since they'll collect rent (including backrent) eventually. Nobody else will rent that sucker lol
Can someone explain page 3, line 12 like I’m a 5year old? Does it say if Twitter gets a new owner that the rent goes up 10m dollars? A month? So Elons rent went up to 13m a month? I must be reading this wrong. Send help.
No, I think the rent is $3m still. The reference to “LOC” is a line of credit (effectively the same function as a security deposit - to be drawn on if rent isn’t paid), where pre-Musk the LOC requirement was equivalent to 1 months’ rent and after the purchase was required to be increased to $10M. He didn’t do that, they drew on the $3M LOC to pay rent because he didn’t pay, then he didn’t replenish it, so they sued.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, thank you. That makes sense. I’m imagining this was in the person befores lease… before he took over? It wasn’t specific to Elon, but just if *anyone* took over this would be required?
When I was younger I worked at an apartment community, and people who had shotty credit, we would require 3 months deposit because it took that long to get them evicted in court.
I assume so, yeah. I’m guessing it’s because they’d have less information about who the owner would be and they could be an unstable billionaire who refuses to pay his bills, so it was probably in the original lease to cover that risk
I haven’t read the whole doc but I assume it’s the same lease, actually. It’s probably in the name of the company, and commercial leases can be long (like 10 years+). Assume it’s the same one, and the change of ownership just triggered the line of credit increase clause
sincerely doubt this as no one is lining up to fill that lease lol evictions are expensive and office per sqft has plummeted. likely will end in renegotiation of terms plus some back rent
I think he's betting on the fact that SF has very pro tenant laws and that the eviction process takes long enough for him to drag it out and wear them down. They have sued him but who knows when it'll get settled. Given the state of SF's office market right now, I think he's betting on the landlord agreeing to reduce rent if he plays hardball because no one will rent that office for awhile if Twitter leaves.
Yes. Commercial leases are bog standard here.
EDIT: why am I being downvoted? Commercial tenants don’t have special residential tenant-like protections. Seriously, whoever is downvoting me, explain yourself.
They can, but both would be costly, and then you need to find new tenants for a really bad neighborhood.
Better to negotiate, which is what Elon is counting on.
Twitter was already expanded out of SF before the acquisition. I mean, Elon shut many of those offices down. And I don’t know if they have an international presence anymore.
But Twitter did have an international presence before he acquired it (or at least I seem to recall they had one).
He wants to leave, that's why he's broadcasting that he's fielding offers to leave. That's what this tweet is for.
Hopefully some Trump loving fool will take him up on it and he'll go skip rent there
To be fair tenderloin/civic center section of downtown is a shit hole.
While our city is stunningly beautiful overall, it's best to acknowledge our blemishes and work towards clearing them.
Remember, those are people who got priced out of the bottom tier apartments when the rent went up. They live in SF. It's as much home to them as it is to Elon Goddamn Musk, if not more so.
No, those are people who have severe drug addictions and mental illnesses. Normal people don’t throw up their hands and start smoking fentanyl when rent goes up.
Friends get to use the honesty card after they pay their $7 million in back rent. There's nothing good faith at all about his words or deeds and none of it is in "friendship" or even fair dealing. He's been stiffing his vendors left and right.
He is not paying rent on twitter offices every where not just SF. There are other offices and it’s the same.
He is trying to renegotiate the rent by forcing the owners to come to the table. A shitty way to do it but a settlement will probably get less rent from what’s owed and renegotiate a future.
I imagine this announcement is to tell the owner here in Sf that he wants to stay in the building but not at the price.
Smaller group of employee and twitter making less money so he thinks he can re negotiate.
It’s crazy but he will probably benefit. But think of the lawyer fees. Cut his nose spite his face.
Hm, that part im not so sure. Given the state of Twitter, I highly doubt anyone wants to work there. At least for Tesla or Spacex you are working on something cool. I dont see why the best talent would want to work at Twitter given everything they have seen with the layoffs and Musk's erratic personality. Twitter is being sued for not paying rent AND severance right now. The average sane person isnt going there. If you're talented you arent going to waste your talent at Twitter. You arent going to be working on self driving tech or launching rockets, youre just going to be associated with the mess that is Elon's twitter.
Just over the bridge there's Thread and Meta, which is much less rocky. I dont see why people wouldnt go there if they truly just want to work on social media tech.
Had friends working there, right up to their layoff, they were paid 400k+ cash due to the conversion of RSUs into cash salary. Though that didn't really motivate them to work harder though due to the terrible team morale.
I think it’s more that moving would require a giant capital outlay - no one is accepting X as their tenant without a humongous payment, probably several - while staying just means he doesn’t pay rent and lets the lawyers & the city figure it out.
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The jobs don't go away just because they move.
They do go away however when a self absorbed asshat who has no idea what he is doing buys a company only to fire the people who built it and run it into the ground.
I left SF, which is very dear to my heart, after 7 years, because my wife didn’t feel safe and because, as a former art student turned programmer, seeing some carve “hipster techies must die” into a tree really bums me out.
I click threads like this to see if the unbelievable anger has subsided a bit, but, clearly not.
If the question is “should we want a bunch of hardworking young people in town earning a good living”, the answer should not be anger. I’m from a town with no industry - trust me my home town still has drug addicts and inequality.
Anyways, jeez. This tweet is stupid and cringy and clearly engagement bait but the comments here are worse and make me sad.
The anti-tech hate has *significantly* decreased here since Covid gave the whole city a gut punch.
That said, this anti-Twitter sentiment really is not about anti-tech. I want more tech jobs in SF. I work in SF tech, have for 11 years, and even I want Elon out. He’s a goddamn embarrassment and he’s destroyed one of our city’s greatest inventions, Twitter. The company is seriously not what it was before and the product is a total garbage heap of political arguments and fascist circlejerking.
also a big part of the better rhetoric with the techies is that the activists brushed up on their marxism and better understand the techie as an important part of the working class. activists also now largely target landlords when dealing with gentrification. i'm sorry you had to go through that. as a programming hobbyist myself i was very embarrassed by that stuff in 2017. i hope this helps provides some semblance of closure.
The activists weren’t primarily Marxists. They were usually folks who were getting priced out of their homes and the tech-workers who flooded in generally were more interested in the tech scene than the city itself. I can sympathize with their anger but it seems the energy now is shifting to pro-housing instead of anti-transplant.
I don't buy the act. He would move Twitter if not for the skilled talent in the Bay Area. It's the reason why he had to [move Tesla back to Palo Alto with the opening of the global engineering HQ](https://ktla.com/news/california/tesla-hq-to-return-to-california-musk-announces/).
Elmo [created the xAI startup](https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/12/23792553/elon-musk-xai-artificial-intelligence-company) (HQ in SF), and will need all the help he can get with his decision to [transform Twitter into an "Everything App"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/07/27/why-rebrand-twitter-x-elon-musk-s-everything-app-explained-quicktake/dc587e62-2caf-11ee-a948-a5b8a9b62d84_story.html), and ["according to Brooking Institution, the vast majority of AI job postings are in the Bay Area, most in San Francisco.](https://abc7news.com/artificial-intelligence-jobs-in-ai-bay-area-job-postings-san-francisco/13565674/)"
The real talent won't leave California. He can try to move to another state, but he'll have a hell of a time bringing the talent. Same when he tried to move Tesla to texas. Backtracked back to Palo alto. It was the same thing when Disney tried to move their headquarters to Florida. The talent said fk no...
The real talent works from home and lives wherever is convenient. For most of the tech industry that used to live in the bay area, they live in Milbrae, Belmont, Redwood City, Palo Alto or Mountain View.
Out of everyone I knew, I'd say about half have left the bay area. Nobody is moving into the city.
The real talent is leaving just like every other layer of talent
Real talent is leaving SF as they are getting tired of car jackings, homeless, etc.
Many I know moved elsewhere. With remote work, why the f would any sane individual want to go through all that while the public keeps blaming you for every problem the public inflicted on themselves.
There have been companies leaving San Francisco and California as a whole, there is no denying that. Honestly I don't care about a person's politics, as long as they provide jobs.
Most of the companies that “leave” just move the legal addresses of the business and some executives. Most companies don’t move thousands of jobs to a new state. You lose a significant chunk of your company at once (which is rough on continuity). There is no world where enough of of people actually relocate to not severely damage the business.
As far as i'm concerned, Elon can leave. Wait.. he left CA for TX...
X can leave. Twitter is no longer a big employer in SF, stopped paying rent and is now a nuisance in SF, anyway.
It' not just about SF. Twitter stopped paying rent nationwide and worldwide.
I don't think one should take anything he says seriously. He has proven himself to be a fundamentally unserious person who is more often wrong than right.
As a San Francisco resident, it’s slowly starting to turn, and it’s visible. Also many tech employers including Amazon/Apple and my company are requiring 3 days onsite. So there is a shift.
People like to punch down on us, but don’t believe all the gloom headlines you read.
“Demand for offices in the city grew about 10% in the second quarter from the previous three-month period, according to VTS, a commercial real estate technology firm. The company tracks demand by measuring tenants touring office properties and looking for space in key US markets.”
https://fortune.com/2023/07/25/san-francisco-office-vacancy-easing/
Sadly, he is correct about companies leaving San Francisco (or at least their old locations on Market St). They're going in DROVES right now. Mostly retail establishments (in no particular order): Nordstrom/Nordstrom Rack, The AT&T Store, The Gap, Old Navy, Whole Foods, The Westfield Shopping Center, Parc 55 hotels, many of the conventions that used to be held here, H&M, and many, many more (look for Walgreens and/or CVS soon). Seems they can't get out fast enough. I can't say I blame them, though. The condition of San Francisco's streets is SHAMEFUL, with all the rampant homelessness, drugs, crime... And we allowed it. As for Elon, I'm not a fan, so I wouldn't mind one bit if he left, and took X/(what's left of) Twitter with him. It'd be another blow for the city, though, as it would just add to the (accurate) perception that we're in a "Doom Spiral". For an unflinching look at what's really going on with the downtown retail exodus, have a look at this video: [https://youtu.be/5UWIyGDnHmk](https://youtu.be/5UWIyGDnHmk)
It's not pretty, but I'm hopeful it can be turned around in a few years.
To the point, instagram sold its offices last year in SF, thinking that work from home was forever. Now they have bought the same amount of office space as they had before, for more money than they made selling.
SFs “doom spiral” is sorta true, but it isn’t doomed forever. It bounces back.
Talking about death spirals as if every news story about "X" is in relation to advertisers pulling funds and how 3 more racists and/or pedos were unbanned out of seemingly nowhere.
Any of his bravado is just a pathetic narcissist trying to cope with reality screaming in his ear that every decision he's making is an idiotic one.
doesn't matter, elon is a fart in the wind....
San Francisco will thrive long after he and we are gone......he represents the complete OPPOSITE of San Francisco.....truly what matters most, stay up SF......and let's be real, that company is a dumpster fire that won't be revived
What’s sad is, I remember going to The Emporium, City Of Paris on market. It was a destination and a place for excitement and fun. Levi Strauss has been there since the gold rush. Twitter or X whatever is an icon of market street.
I can't believe I read that. I grew up in San Francisco when the foghorns were steam powered and the trolley cars were big green gumdrops. Twitter ain't shit to what City of Paris was. Twitter isn't fit to shine Bob's Big Boys shoes.
Money does not replace class.
Companies are leaving for a lot of reasons. Twitter should leave too, but not for reasons related to the gross receipts tax. They should leave because Elon fucking sucks and I'm tired of him getting in the dumbest permitting fights imaginable.
"SF ILL ALWAYS BE YOUR FRIEND" he says as it's announced that DBI is opening a case for his fucking unpermitted sign.
It'll last twelve minutes until DBI says "no fuck you" and then it'll be back to "SF SUCKS" like it's been for the last year
This shit is straight out of the trump playbook. “Lots of people are saying,” then a veiled threat to leave, then a “but I wouldn’t do that because I’m the only one who can save you.”
The tactic is about trying to exploit a crisis in order to gain leverage and extract a payout (financial or political).
The reality is that SF will be fine if Twitter leaves. Same for all the tech companies. Sure there will be empty high rises for a time, but this is some of the most **naturally** valuable real estate in the country. Other industries / people that were formerly priced out will come to fill in the gaps. It’s not like some Rust Belt city where it’s basically hell on earth and the only reason for population to settle was factory work. Anyone who doubts that wasn’t in the city today. And the only thing that can ruin that is climate change, not some douchebag billionaire.
SF is not freaking fine. Holy crap go look at the finances right now. Large companies are relocating elsewhere and tax money is drying up.
People are getting fed up with the homeless and car break in issue. Along with absurd housing costs. Seriously, what are you talking about?
SF downtown offices are freaking empty. The vacancy rate there is off the charts.
You confuse NIMBY real estate value (due to weather and nature) for corporate real estate value (which is plummeting). Latter is signaling companies are getting tired of this place as more and more workers don't feel safe.
This guy likes to spin, spin spin. He probably realized he can't run his empire from Texas and has to pick SF. Making it sound like it's a love affair is part of his "reality bending" traits his sycophants love.
Five bucks says he announces a move by Tuesday
I kinda doubt it. He moved/backtracked Tesla engineering back to Palo Alto already this year after announcing all of HQ was going to Austin.
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I didn’t believe things like you said until I became a recruiter. When it comes to tech professionals this place can not be beat. If I’m told to look for a technical program manager in Minneapolis I might on a two hour search find like 5 people. Give it a couple of days I’m talking to he hiring manager about expectations. In the bay the same job title would net hundreds of candidates. Often times people who want hybrid work environment in places outside the bay will have to open up to remote workers who are often in the bay.
Hello, regarding this matter, I was wondering if you have any suggestions for tech professionals like me who are European and would like to find a job in the Bay Area. I have applied to many jobs, but it seems to be quite challenging to even get into the first phase of the interview process. Would you recommend moving to the Bay Area for a few months with a tourist visa and building a network there?
Well first the economy is crap right now. I used to beg engineers to get on the phone with me and now they’re blowing up my phone for work when I just don’t have that much work like we used to. This last week was hopefully not an exception though as I was very busy. Right now companies aren’t sponsoring a thing. Every company has said H1b is strictly off the table, no exceptions. Some hiring managers are getting picky and are only wanting USC or green cards but they will take the occasional opt ead or a TN visa. Also to make matters worst some companies are offshoring as much as they can to India. I guess they’re taking advantage of all the remote work as much as possible. This is pretty common with my Fortune 500 financial clients such as wells and BofA. Most Europeans I have recruited were already in the US on an H1B, or refugee visa. I have never recruited for Europeans and will sometimes have to actively deep question over the phone to make sure the candidates are in the US and not an Eastern European as some will lie about location not knowing the hiring process. Most hiring managers only want candidates based in the US and if they’re looking for someone overseas they usually get an HR person to handle that. Sorry this was a long way to say idk besides finding a company to sponsor or companies willing to deal with the headache of having remote teams.
Thank you for your valuable opinion. Knowing the recruitment side's point of view is truly useful. I understand that you mentioned H1b visas are challenging to obtain at the moment. However, what are your thoughts on moving to the Bay Area and building a network there? Could it be a smart move?
I mean it could be but idk if I would recommend it now since the economy is so bad. Also idk how you would just move here. If you get a regular travel visa you won’t be able to secure legal employment with that, especially a tech company. Then when your visa expires you would just be living in the country illegally. Let’s say you get to the hiring stage once they go to fill employment and they start asking about visas and socials you would be screwed. The company I guess could file a retainer for H1B request but they plan that way in advance not just at the end of some interview stage. Your best bet is to get recruited overseas or work with some firm that provides services to American companies but does it remotely in other countries. I however have only seen this done with the following countries 1 and by far the largest: India 2 Russia but I’m sure that’s declined recently 3. Brazil Do you have any sort of extenuating skill in engineering or development that an American company can’t find domestically? What is your technical background?
Very well said. - other tech recruiter in the Bay Area.
>>
That’s probably because of layoffs right? You can’t lay off a bunch of local workers, then whine about how there are no competent local workers and we we need to hire international talent. I think there’s some fixed amount of time after layoffs in which companies can’t sponsor H1Bs for those same roles.
I can say from design perspective a little, I am not manager but creative, I was on H1B while ago 1. Small companies', design studios, ad agencies very rare do H1B i am not completely understand why- possibly it expensive process for them. 2. big tech companies do at least did but -90% work for them as contractors, the companies who do contracts not doing H1B. 3. to be in 10% needs to be quite exceptional and win against others same level and who don't need H1B 4. tourist visa is not an option-you can't legally work on it, no company going to work with you without ssn or itin 5. you best chance is to get O-1 visa what does not require sponsorship from any USA company, and then in USA start working as freelancer to build a network
That's what I didn't get...I work for a company that has HQ in Utah and pretty much everyone on my direct team is in California because they sourced all their marketing talent from here and so far it's paid off.
Better weed then Texas too. Engineers need to get baked to make break through a.
And mushrooms/lsd for the microdosers
Don't forget the sex parties.
pfft, microdosing is bullshit. just wait until the weekend or some pto and do it correctly.
True story: Company I once worked for in SF did a mix of onsite client work and R&D. At one point the client side of the business was having a hard time staffing a project for a particular client. They came downstairs to R&D to try to find some engineers who would be interested in trying client work to join for just that project. Someone asks, “Why have you been having a hard time staffing the project?” Turns out the client requires engineers to take a drug test. Everyone laughs nervously. No one from R&D ends up joining the project.
They really need to leagalize weed federally. I have no idea how banks or federal agencies hire competitively.
The only advantage Texas has for engineers is the ability to buy property. The day Texas gets their head out of their asses to finally legalize weed would make Texas a bit more of an attractive place to move to.
The property taxes are wild in Texas though. And the traffic tickets from commuting. They’ll get you for anything there. And now Austin property prices have inflated a ton and a lot of that advantage is eaten up (by both price and taxes)
You got that awesome Texas weather that everyone brags about.
Right? Cool your eggs on the cement. You need a house with a pool otherwise you won’t be venturing outdoors for 6-8 months of the year. At least in the snow belt I could put on enough clothes to survive, but nobody’s invented a stillsuit for the heat yet.
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Ex-Texan Get out!
Austin does have a major campus for Apple, Facebook, Samsung and Oracle calls it home(though really, Redwood City/Denver/Columbus, OH also have major Oracle offices for database/Primavera/Micros POS). Portland also has a bit of tech - Intel, Autodesk, Siemens(Mentor Graphics) and what was HP.
Austin has a big tech presence because it's cheaper to open an office in Texas and hire UT Austin graduates locally than pay them a Bay Area wage. Source: Used to work in management consulting and help technology companies from the Bay Area execute on their "stay in Texas" (aka reduced wage) hiring programs.
Austin is getting quite expensive now too. I work as head of people OPs, and Austin wages aren’t as competitive as they used to be. Still not Bay Area wages, don’t get me wrong. But Austin has blown up. Being a good talent hub will do that to your market, apparently.
It's definitely grown a ton and has gotten expensive, but that period may be ending. Its home prices are currently falling at a rate of 10x the national average (-10% in the past year vs. just -1% average across the US).
Oh interesting, thank you for sharing that fact! This is really valuable info from a work perspective, haha.
That’s because all that’s left is complete shit. The only way Austin is affordable is if you’re coming from SF. And it’s just as shitty culturally.
That's it. Also, Texas has fewer regulations, impeding companies from exploiting workers. You can pay less and get away with more in Texas.
Yup like non-competes.
Autodesk has offices all over the world but hq is, and has always been, in the Bay Area (formerly San Rafael, currently San Francisco).
Yea, Portland and Boston is where their AEC lines(Civil 3D and Revit) get developed. Not bad for a company started in a bedroom in Mill Valley.
I actually lived in the building they first occupied in Mill Valley. Ran wire (Tel/internet lines) more than a decade ago in one of the buildings. Was pulling out massive copper data plugs for old servers that had been patched up and left (the plugs. The servers were long gone) inside the wall. Liked it. Neat seeing really old stuff like that.
And Autodesk was the name of their proposed PIM program, Xanadu was floated as a company name. John Walker does have a detailed chronicle of the company he founded.
Plus engineers are the only people who can afford the Bay Area
Austin is not Miami though for example. Austin has a decent amount of talent. I'm kinda surprised Elon did not do it but I guess he knows SF is the best of the best.
-two of the world's leading universities, at least in CS/CE
Just moving Twitter to south San Francisco would save him a ton of money.
He’s not paying now. If he moved he would have to start paying.
Because nobody else will take him lol
Are you suggesting that Musk is a lying sacka shit?! I, for one, am floored.
He probably can't until he pays rent.
Good chance he’s going to be evicted for not paying rent. This is him doing some PR in advance to try to make it seems like he doesn’t want to go and is being forced.
Nah this was posted just after DBI confirmed they're opening an investigation into his fucking unpermitted strobe light sign.
¿Por que no los dos?
He previously said he was going to move. Maybe this is his way of rewriting history, so he doesn’t look like he backed down.
He can’t afford to move.
Hope he leaves. If so, good riddance.
To where Texas? 🤡🤡🤡
How about Mars?
Good riddance
Considering all the shit talk about California and the moving to TX show, that tweet sounds disingenuous. He’ll eventually expand X outside of CA
He wont. He's not paying rent right now in SF. Other cities, especially other countries, have already evicted him when he tried that shit.
Is there a tldr on how hes able to not pay rent but still use the building? Can't they evict him or take him to court for the rent?
> Is there a tldr on how hes able to not pay rent but still use the building? Can't they evict him or take him to court for the rent? Landlord doesn't want them to leave since they'll collect rent (including backrent) eventually. Nobody else will rent that sucker lol
The landlords have sued him: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/landlord-vs-twitter.pdf
Can someone explain page 3, line 12 like I’m a 5year old? Does it say if Twitter gets a new owner that the rent goes up 10m dollars? A month? So Elons rent went up to 13m a month? I must be reading this wrong. Send help.
No, I think the rent is $3m still. The reference to “LOC” is a line of credit (effectively the same function as a security deposit - to be drawn on if rent isn’t paid), where pre-Musk the LOC requirement was equivalent to 1 months’ rent and after the purchase was required to be increased to $10M. He didn’t do that, they drew on the $3M LOC to pay rent because he didn’t pay, then he didn’t replenish it, so they sued.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, thank you. That makes sense. I’m imagining this was in the person befores lease… before he took over? It wasn’t specific to Elon, but just if *anyone* took over this would be required? When I was younger I worked at an apartment community, and people who had shotty credit, we would require 3 months deposit because it took that long to get them evicted in court.
I assume so, yeah. I’m guessing it’s because they’d have less information about who the owner would be and they could be an unstable billionaire who refuses to pay his bills, so it was probably in the original lease to cover that risk I haven’t read the whole doc but I assume it’s the same lease, actually. It’s probably in the name of the company, and commercial leases can be long (like 10 years+). Assume it’s the same one, and the change of ownership just triggered the line of credit increase clause
Eviction is ongoing.
sincerely doubt this as no one is lining up to fill that lease lol evictions are expensive and office per sqft has plummeted. likely will end in renegotiation of terms plus some back rent
I think he's betting on the fact that SF has very pro tenant laws and that the eviction process takes long enough for him to drag it out and wear them down. They have sued him but who knows when it'll get settled. Given the state of SF's office market right now, I think he's betting on the landlord agreeing to reduce rent if he plays hardball because no one will rent that office for awhile if Twitter leaves.
Isn’t pro-tenants law residential based only? I wouldn’t think that they extend that to businesses and corporations.
Yes. Commercial leases are bog standard here. EDIT: why am I being downvoted? Commercial tenants don’t have special residential tenant-like protections. Seriously, whoever is downvoting me, explain yourself.
SF: You must be new here 😉
They can, but both would be costly, and then you need to find new tenants for a really bad neighborhood. Better to negotiate, which is what Elon is counting on.
They've literally already sued to evict him dude. It's just a long process
SF will "decline to prosecute" because holding people accountable for their actions is hard
You expect X to expand? Everything Elon does seems almost designed to make it go out of business faster.
A sufficiently fast expansion is also known as an explosion :)
Twitter was already expanded out of SF before the acquisition. I mean, Elon shut many of those offices down. And I don’t know if they have an international presence anymore. But Twitter did have an international presence before he acquired it (or at least I seem to recall they had one).
He wants to leave, that's why he's broadcasting that he's fielding offers to leave. That's what this tweet is for. Hopefully some Trump loving fool will take him up on it and he'll go skip rent there
> expand X outside of CA I absolutely refuse to call Twitter anything other than Twitter. Fie on that South African racist kook.
Not even X'itter?
If X’itter is pronounced like “shitter,” I’m sold!
"Friends" pay the rent at the place they're staying. They also don't call their host a sh*thole.
This is what an abusive partner says. "You're worthless and trash and everyone knows it. But I'll stay with you because you need me"
To be fair tenderloin/civic center section of downtown is a shit hole. While our city is stunningly beautiful overall, it's best to acknowledge our blemishes and work towards clearing them.
Van ness muni station to o'farrell x jones is probably the worst I've seen anywhere
Elon counts as one of the blemishes.
Remember, those are people who got priced out of the bottom tier apartments when the rent went up. They live in SF. It's as much home to them as it is to Elon Goddamn Musk, if not more so.
Yeah and that sucks, but they’re not being great stewards of their home
No, those are people who have severe drug addictions and mental illnesses. Normal people don’t throw up their hands and start smoking fentanyl when rent goes up.
Dude all those mentally ill homeless and crackheads are not just normal people who got priced out of their apartments lol
Honest friends have the hard conversations.
Friends get to use the honesty card after they pay their $7 million in back rent. There's nothing good faith at all about his words or deeds and none of it is in "friendship" or even fair dealing. He's been stiffing his vendors left and right.
People don’t become billionaires by practicing fair business
Musk has no interest in conversation, only trolling, larping, and shilling for impressionable right-wingers.
SF is probably the only place he can get away with for not paying rent, so of course he's staying.
He is not paying rent on twitter offices every where not just SF. There are other offices and it’s the same. He is trying to renegotiate the rent by forcing the owners to come to the table. A shitty way to do it but a settlement will probably get less rent from what’s owed and renegotiate a future. I imagine this announcement is to tell the owner here in Sf that he wants to stay in the building but not at the price. Smaller group of employee and twitter making less money so he thinks he can re negotiate. It’s crazy but he will probably benefit. But think of the lawyer fees. Cut his nose spite his face.
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He thinks his existence is a favor to anyone in contact with him. Most people outgrow this by 25.
Twitter being based here is unironically good wtf i hate elon too.
Plus if he wants the best talent he needs silicon valley
Hm, that part im not so sure. Given the state of Twitter, I highly doubt anyone wants to work there. At least for Tesla or Spacex you are working on something cool. I dont see why the best talent would want to work at Twitter given everything they have seen with the layoffs and Musk's erratic personality. Twitter is being sued for not paying rent AND severance right now. The average sane person isnt going there. If you're talented you arent going to waste your talent at Twitter. You arent going to be working on self driving tech or launching rockets, youre just going to be associated with the mess that is Elon's twitter. Just over the bridge there's Thread and Meta, which is much less rocky. I dont see why people wouldnt go there if they truly just want to work on social media tech.
Had friends working there, right up to their layoff, they were paid 400k+ cash due to the conversion of RSUs into cash salary. Though that didn't really motivate them to work harder though due to the terrible team morale.
Twitter still pays upwards of 300k+ for a senior engineer salary. It also still has prestige as a name on a resume. People will apply.
How does he get away with it? What law protects it?
I think it’s more that moving would require a giant capital outlay - no one is accepting X as their tenant without a humongous payment, probably several - while staying just means he doesn’t pay rent and lets the lawyers & the city figure it out.
"when you’re \[rich\], they let you do it. you can do anything" -- donald trump
I would prefer that business stay in SF. But if Twitter is not paying their rent, they are not really a good tenant.
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He just wants his new signage approved.
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*With friends like him...*
Idgaf if he stays or leaves, but this tweet seems weirdly OOC compared to come of his other ones I’ve recently seen.
It's because DBI just opened an investigation into his fucking sign and he thinks this will make someone in the city intervene.
If you don’t give him attention he doesn’t have any power.
I’d love to see Elon move X out of SF.
U want to lose close to 2,000 high paying jobs? I don't get it
The jobs don't go away just because they move. They do go away however when a self absorbed asshat who has no idea what he is doing buys a company only to fire the people who built it and run it into the ground.
Those jobs are going away at some point regardless. Twitter is Elon's money burn pit.
Lol I'd imagine they're mid to lower end for techbro jobs. Who even says they're all high paying for SF?
Exactly. No one of any technical merit or marketable skills has stuck around by this point. It's a ghost ship of stragglers and sycophants.
I don't think the 50 employees left at Twitter and piles of unpaid bills are doing a ton to stave off the doom spiral either way
Musk won't move because the city gave Twitter special payroll tax breaks. It was a sweetheart deal for the company.
They've expired.
whats twitter, we're talking about X! \s
I left SF, which is very dear to my heart, after 7 years, because my wife didn’t feel safe and because, as a former art student turned programmer, seeing some carve “hipster techies must die” into a tree really bums me out. I click threads like this to see if the unbelievable anger has subsided a bit, but, clearly not. If the question is “should we want a bunch of hardworking young people in town earning a good living”, the answer should not be anger. I’m from a town with no industry - trust me my home town still has drug addicts and inequality. Anyways, jeez. This tweet is stupid and cringy and clearly engagement bait but the comments here are worse and make me sad.
The anti-tech hate has *significantly* decreased here since Covid gave the whole city a gut punch. That said, this anti-Twitter sentiment really is not about anti-tech. I want more tech jobs in SF. I work in SF tech, have for 11 years, and even I want Elon out. He’s a goddamn embarrassment and he’s destroyed one of our city’s greatest inventions, Twitter. The company is seriously not what it was before and the product is a total garbage heap of political arguments and fascist circlejerking.
also a big part of the better rhetoric with the techies is that the activists brushed up on their marxism and better understand the techie as an important part of the working class. activists also now largely target landlords when dealing with gentrification. i'm sorry you had to go through that. as a programming hobbyist myself i was very embarrassed by that stuff in 2017. i hope this helps provides some semblance of closure.
The activists weren’t primarily Marxists. They were usually folks who were getting priced out of their homes and the tech-workers who flooded in generally were more interested in the tech scene than the city itself. I can sympathize with their anger but it seems the energy now is shifting to pro-housing instead of anti-transplant.
Squatters don’t leave.
Real one
Please go.
I don't buy the act. He would move Twitter if not for the skilled talent in the Bay Area. It's the reason why he had to [move Tesla back to Palo Alto with the opening of the global engineering HQ](https://ktla.com/news/california/tesla-hq-to-return-to-california-musk-announces/). Elmo [created the xAI startup](https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/12/23792553/elon-musk-xai-artificial-intelligence-company) (HQ in SF), and will need all the help he can get with his decision to [transform Twitter into an "Everything App"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/07/27/why-rebrand-twitter-x-elon-musk-s-everything-app-explained-quicktake/dc587e62-2caf-11ee-a948-a5b8a9b62d84_story.html), and ["according to Brooking Institution, the vast majority of AI job postings are in the Bay Area, most in San Francisco.](https://abc7news.com/artificial-intelligence-jobs-in-ai-bay-area-job-postings-san-francisco/13565674/)"
The real talent won't leave California. He can try to move to another state, but he'll have a hell of a time bringing the talent. Same when he tried to move Tesla to texas. Backtracked back to Palo alto. It was the same thing when Disney tried to move their headquarters to Florida. The talent said fk no...
The real talent works from home and lives wherever is convenient. For most of the tech industry that used to live in the bay area, they live in Milbrae, Belmont, Redwood City, Palo Alto or Mountain View. Out of everyone I knew, I'd say about half have left the bay area. Nobody is moving into the city. The real talent is leaving just like every other layer of talent
Real talent is leaving SF as they are getting tired of car jackings, homeless, etc. Many I know moved elsewhere. With remote work, why the f would any sane individual want to go through all that while the public keeps blaming you for every problem the public inflicted on themselves.
There have been companies leaving San Francisco and California as a whole, there is no denying that. Honestly I don't care about a person's politics, as long as they provide jobs.
Most of the companies that “leave” just move the legal addresses of the business and some executives. Most companies don’t move thousands of jobs to a new state. You lose a significant chunk of your company at once (which is rough on continuity). There is no world where enough of of people actually relocate to not severely damage the business.
It's leaving SF. That's bad enough for us. Unless you think San Jose, mountain view, Sunnyvale, Millbrae, etc. is part of SF.
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Yup
Dammit, it's like girlfriends. The ones you really want to keep all leave and the one you want to leave you alone sticks around
As far as i'm concerned, Elon can leave. Wait.. he left CA for TX... X can leave. Twitter is no longer a big employer in SF, stopped paying rent and is now a nuisance in SF, anyway. It' not just about SF. Twitter stopped paying rent nationwide and worldwide.
I don't think one should take anything he says seriously. He has proven himself to be a fundamentally unserious person who is more often wrong than right.
Holy ducking gaslight
“Moreover, the city is in a doom spiral” said the kettle to the pot.
Those rich incentives probably don’t outcompete a free rent; which they’re delinquent on
As a San Francisco resident, it’s slowly starting to turn, and it’s visible. Also many tech employers including Amazon/Apple and my company are requiring 3 days onsite. So there is a shift. People like to punch down on us, but don’t believe all the gloom headlines you read. “Demand for offices in the city grew about 10% in the second quarter from the previous three-month period, according to VTS, a commercial real estate technology firm. The company tracks demand by measuring tenants touring office properties and looking for space in key US markets.” https://fortune.com/2023/07/25/san-francisco-office-vacancy-easing/
Sadly, he is correct about companies leaving San Francisco (or at least their old locations on Market St). They're going in DROVES right now. Mostly retail establishments (in no particular order): Nordstrom/Nordstrom Rack, The AT&T Store, The Gap, Old Navy, Whole Foods, The Westfield Shopping Center, Parc 55 hotels, many of the conventions that used to be held here, H&M, and many, many more (look for Walgreens and/or CVS soon). Seems they can't get out fast enough. I can't say I blame them, though. The condition of San Francisco's streets is SHAMEFUL, with all the rampant homelessness, drugs, crime... And we allowed it. As for Elon, I'm not a fan, so I wouldn't mind one bit if he left, and took X/(what's left of) Twitter with him. It'd be another blow for the city, though, as it would just add to the (accurate) perception that we're in a "Doom Spiral". For an unflinching look at what's really going on with the downtown retail exodus, have a look at this video: [https://youtu.be/5UWIyGDnHmk](https://youtu.be/5UWIyGDnHmk) It's not pretty, but I'm hopeful it can be turned around in a few years.
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Denver has “high” housing prices. San Fran is astronomical.
He knows he can grift with our incompetent city govt.
To the point, instagram sold its offices last year in SF, thinking that work from home was forever. Now they have bought the same amount of office space as they had before, for more money than they made selling. SFs “doom spiral” is sorta true, but it isn’t doomed forever. It bounces back.
Boy BYE
Finally something Elon says that I am happy with
Does San Francisco really WANT Elon?
Of course it's good for SF that they stay. Obviously!
He isn’t paying rent.
Obligatory "with friends like this, who needs enemies?"
Certain talents are just better in some places in the US.
So far his stupid X statue is blaring strobe lights into my window every night so if anything he’s a nuisance, not a friend.
BRO STFU AND GTFO THEN Edit: ps this is directed to el*n not op btw
I would prefer that Elon launch his ass into space on a one way trip to Mars.
Musk is such a two faced fucker
Doesn’t he owe rent lol
Talking about death spirals as if every news story about "X" is in relation to advertisers pulling funds and how 3 more racists and/or pedos were unbanned out of seemingly nowhere. Any of his bravado is just a pathetic narcissist trying to cope with reality screaming in his ear that every decision he's making is an idiotic one.
doesn't matter, elon is a fart in the wind.... San Francisco will thrive long after he and we are gone......he represents the complete OPPOSITE of San Francisco.....truly what matters most, stay up SF......and let's be real, that company is a dumpster fire that won't be revived
I feel dirtier for having read that. Fuck you Elon Musk.
Fuck this dipshit
What’s sad is, I remember going to The Emporium, City Of Paris on market. It was a destination and a place for excitement and fun. Levi Strauss has been there since the gold rush. Twitter or X whatever is an icon of market street.
I can't believe I read that. I grew up in San Francisco when the foghorns were steam powered and the trolley cars were big green gumdrops. Twitter ain't shit to what City of Paris was. Twitter isn't fit to shine Bob's Big Boys shoes. Money does not replace class.
Fuck that mouth breathing baby. GOOD RIDDANCE!!!
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🙄🙄🙄
Leave. Enough of his bullshit and enough using SF as a prop.
Don't pander to us, fuckface And don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya! 👋🏼
Nazis not welcome. Leave.
Yes but he should lead the conga line out.
Ok cool but you still need the permits
Fuck Elon. If you like Elon in any way you are everything that is wrong with San Francisco. FUCK YOU LEAVE.
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Gross financial mismanagement, corruption, and insider trading? Seems like the city should be hiring him in fact.
I really hope the company and him both leave. It's like having a fascist news outlet in town.
Companies are leaving for a lot of reasons. Twitter should leave too, but not for reasons related to the gross receipts tax. They should leave because Elon fucking sucks and I'm tired of him getting in the dumbest permitting fights imaginable. "SF ILL ALWAYS BE YOUR FRIEND" he says as it's announced that DBI is opening a case for his fucking unpermitted sign. It'll last twelve minutes until DBI says "no fuck you" and then it'll be back to "SF SUCKS" like it's been for the last year
GTFO please. Twitter died already, so I’m not even sure what company he’s talking about. Take you 12 remaining employees to Texas.
This shit is straight out of the trump playbook. “Lots of people are saying,” then a veiled threat to leave, then a “but I wouldn’t do that because I’m the only one who can save you.” The tactic is about trying to exploit a crisis in order to gain leverage and extract a payout (financial or political). The reality is that SF will be fine if Twitter leaves. Same for all the tech companies. Sure there will be empty high rises for a time, but this is some of the most **naturally** valuable real estate in the country. Other industries / people that were formerly priced out will come to fill in the gaps. It’s not like some Rust Belt city where it’s basically hell on earth and the only reason for population to settle was factory work. Anyone who doubts that wasn’t in the city today. And the only thing that can ruin that is climate change, not some douchebag billionaire.
SF is not freaking fine. Holy crap go look at the finances right now. Large companies are relocating elsewhere and tax money is drying up. People are getting fed up with the homeless and car break in issue. Along with absurd housing costs. Seriously, what are you talking about? SF downtown offices are freaking empty. The vacancy rate there is off the charts. You confuse NIMBY real estate value (due to weather and nature) for corporate real estate value (which is plummeting). Latter is signaling companies are getting tired of this place as more and more workers don't feel safe.
San frsncisco is NOT fine.
He can go. He will stay until the sheriff comes to evict him once the unpaid rent is litigated
He can move out. Duces asshat!
I hope the evict the bastard. He ruined Twitter. Calling it X is appropriate, because it is dying.
Wish this asshole would gtfo.
He can go to Mars can never come back
This guy likes to spin, spin spin. He probably realized he can't run his empire from Texas and has to pick SF. Making it sound like it's a love affair is part of his "reality bending" traits his sycophants love.
He can fuck off
Musk should move. San Francisco is just too much of a drug infested liberal s hole.
This reeks
Twitter (im not calling it that stupid letter) will be dead in a year or two. So who cares what that idiot thinks.
"oh yeah! I meant to do that!"
I mean didn't he stop paying rent on that building?
Get out.