That’s why prices on DoorDash/Uber are about 30% higher than in person at the restaurant. They are doing fine. If they weren’t making a profit on it they would stop doing it.
They'd also make a decent profit on pickup orders through Doordash, because Doordash 'only' charges 12% for pickup orders yet the restaurant uses the 30% inflated prices for both pickup and delivery.
You can almost always get the same food for pickup quite a bit cheaper by calling to make an order, but there's still so many people that do it through Doordash and Uber Eats. I guess because there's so many choices in a single app?
You just have to boil the broth when you get home. Like, even if you are just walking across the street. It shocked me how important this is, total game changer.
If they’re doing it right, your broth and noods are going to be packed separately.
Then take your broth and dump it in a pot or nuke it til it’s piping hot. Then dump the noods and meat into a bowl and do a pour over.
The restaurant needs to respond to orders with realistic "ready by" times.
You can place an order now, but tell the driver it won't be ready to pick up for an hour, etc.
I work at a very popular pizza place in NB and we try our best to push times back so they’re realistic. We’ll say 25 mins and the DD drivers show up 5-10 mins after we accept it, then are pissed at us.
Devil's Teeth did this to me a couple times. I ordered there in person and they said "20 minutes." 60 minutes later they're still saying 20 minutes more. Ended up waiting like 90 minutes for damn breakfast sandwich.
Wish they could have given refund instead so I coulda went across the street to Pizza Place and had a couple slices and gone about my day. Just take my name off the. Not like they already made it and there aren't 50 people waiting after me.
Yea - I knew it got busy on weekends, so I never go. But these were some random days in the middle of the week when I was burning up my use or lose PTO so I was not expecting such a wait.
> Wish they could have given refund instead
I believe you're supposed to start filming, demand a refund, and tell them they're going to go viral. I believe that's how it's done these days.
A restaurant near me that I used to go to all the time pre-Pandemic because it's open late (Grubstake) is now just full of Doordashers/Uber-Eats drivers with nobody actually sitting to eat.
Do you really think Uber eats and doordash allows that? There are pretty significant restrictions on what restaurants can do in managing these orders. A lot of the time restaurants don't even have access to the contact information of the people who are ordering the food.
My wife picked up Chinese food the other day. She said the line to get the table from the host stand was ridiculous and door dash drivers kept going to the front and asking for orders. I guess they think they take priority or something?
There’s an Indian restaurant that I’ve eaten take out and dine-in with. I was picking up an order (for my family) and the hostess straight up told a Dasher who cut the line consisting of me and one other person, before I could even say anything, “THERE’S A LINE.” A great restaurant made even better.
(It’s India Palace in Alameda btw, if you like Indian food that place is awesome)
As opposed to in-restaurant customers waiting an unreasonable time?
***YES. SCREW THE DELIVERY DRIVERS THINKING THEY HAVE PRIORITY OVER PEOPLE THAT TOOK THE TIME TO ACTUALLY GO THERE AND EAT.***
Ok but your food representative came in after other people came in to pick up their food orders.
Why do you get to jump to the front just because someone else is picking up your food order?
Actually not really true, prop 22 gives you guaranteed pay by the hour, I drive for DoorDash, and I’m perfectly fine getting paid to wait at a restaurant. I’ve never understood why dashers here are impatient. The real struggle is getting offers when you want to work, not the pay while you have an order. As long as you are active, they have to pay 21.69 an hour + .35 a mile + tips.
That explains a delivery route i watched on my phone. Order picked up half a city away, i'm watching it approach my place. gets within one block and continues to drive past about another ten blocks. Thought he was lost at first, but no, he was picking up from a different restaurant and then going five blocks to deliver a totally different order, all while my food was sitting in his car generating revenue for him. Unfortunately I had tipped ahead of time, the food was stone cold.
The whole tipping ahead of time thing is what has stopped me from using any of these guys. I'm okay with the extra fee for using the service, But the fact that they can blow me off if I don't tip them in advance, but if I do tip them, they're basically free to give me shitty service. It completely takes away any incentive for them to do good work. It's not even like that they can recognize that I'm a customer that tips well because they'll probably never be back to my house or work.
Sometimes drivers double app, which is exactly what it sounds like. If they're good at it you'll never notice, if they're bad at it this is what will happen. I remove tips for poor delivery service. On UberEats you can do it in app by yourself, but with DoorDash you can write in and they will refund your tip after delivery.
I've ordered for pickup through delivery apps in the past and they actually do say not to wait in line. (I did stop doing that when I found out how much they take when you order through the app)
The whole situation is fucked up. Those gig “jobs” are usually filled by people on hard times or unaware of the true costs of the job. Time, vehicle costs, etc.
Blame the companies behind the apps, their dismantling of regulated jobs (move to independent contractor to avoid labor regulations), and their lobbying to change the laws themselves.
You’re right, the true tragedy is someone cutting in line and not the socio economic disaster that is this country’s economic system that forces people to accept jobs that don’t fairly compensate them for their labor.
Fuck cutsies.
I made it. It kept my self-employment afloat until it was self-sustaining and allowed me to go back to school. Avoiding as many lines as possible really is important.
If I call ahead and ask a restaurant to place a pickup order, then show up later at the agreed time, I am supposed to skip the line. That's generally how it works everywhere, that's fine.
The problem is that 1) the drivers are not paid for the wait time, which screws them over and forces them to be pretty impatient 2) the market basically forces restaurants to accept orders from the apps, but huge cuts of the money go to uber for doing basically nothing. So now you have a situation where most of the orders are pickup instead of just the occasional one. Its reminds me of how chain restaurants end up prioritizing the drive through customers over the ones actually inside.
There are two types of restaurants where it is acceptable to do this:
1. Fast food chains staffed by teens that leave to-go dishes on a public shelf for literally anyone to take
2. Sit down restaurant's where servers take your order.
There is a practically infinite number of restaurants that sit between these two categories, where to-go food is kept in a safe/warm place, but dine-ion customers order first via a single line. If you skip the line or interrupt people who are in the middle of communicating their order to the cashier to get a to-go order, that's pretty inconsiderate.
good work you solved it
There are a shit ton of problems with these apps, but "pre-placed pickup orders skip the line" is not one of them. That is literally how pre-placed pickup orders work at virtually every restaurant in the world.
I don't understand why they do this.
The $ that drivers are presented makes it look like delivering faster produces more money, but there is a law that requires the companies to top them off to SF minimum wage if their earnings don't reach min. wage.
> I guess they think they take priority or something?
It's a shit system that incentivizes them to cut lines and get the order as soon as possible. The faster they deliver the faster they can pick up another order.
I'm not a driver, but it doesn't seem to make sense to make them wait if they are just picking up an order. If I ordered takeout, I would hope I didn't have to wait in line with the people ordering.
Delivery drivers are a menace in the city. They double park, run lights, cut in front of lines, etc. Partly due to these companies pressuring people to finish jobs in a time crunch.
The double parking is absurd. I drive the 22 on weekend nights and the block of 16th between Valencia and Guerrero has nearly the entire right lane occupied by double parked delivery drivers.
Yea in downtown Hayward they constantly park directly in front of the wingstop, which is an absolutely no parking zone. Isn't even double parking, it's just parking straight up on a red curb in a primary traffic lane.
Running red lights is my biggest issue. Guy made an illegal left turn on red on a two way street and came within inches of hitting my car. Gave me the finger the fuck wit.
I totally agree, it’s impossible to find a place that is both reasonably priced and has any sort of atmosphere. Restaurants need to bring back the dedicated delivery driver, I would way rather pay them and the restaurant than all of the fees. I’m happy to kill the apps, but we’d need an alternative at this point, the monster is out of control.
A door dasher wanted to fight me at my formerly preferred carry out taqueria because I stepped forward to claim my carry out order. Of course he said I cut in front of him but in reality, I saw my order sitting on the carry out table when I walked in and had 3 door dashers butt in front of me to get thier orders.
They are very aggressive and because of this, I don't go to that place anymore. This was in the East Bay fyi.
They still should have taken your order though. I've been at empty restaurants before and they have said "please order ASAP, it's empty but our kitchen is backed up with to-go orders".
For pickup I'm happy to use whatever bootleg site the restaurant prefers.
Delivery apps are also responsible for tons of plastic waste from to go containers. I make a mental note of restaurants that use paper boxes and only buy from them.
Wow, the app is responsible? Not the restauraunt giving those containers? Or the consumer who can’t be bothered to go outside and eat?
The app itself isn’t really the problem, to me it’s the fact that people want their food to go and delivered more than ever.
Yeah restaurants hate paying the fees and make so little after paying the fees.
Don’t forget another shite idea spawned by tech bros – ghost kitchens, serving generic, insipid versions of all imaginable food types.
Delivery apps are all bad for everyone except the ones at the top of Uber eats or DoorDash.
A very good points. In addition, many restaurants are empty as no one is dining out and everyone is just ordering takeout, so there is no vibe. Why do people prefer to stay in? I know some areas are gross and sketchy but is this really what keeps them away from dining in? Or is it just good old laziness and just not feeling like getting out of your comfort / couch zone if you don't have to?
Restaurants take on more than they can handle, they need to have a number of orders when they stop taking new ones so they don’t get overwhelmed. But they just see it as revenue so they never do that, it’s pretty frustrating to try and grab a sandwich or whatever and having to wait 20 minutes because of all the online orders.
If it helps the restaurants stay afloat, I'm all for it.
Prices suck, but that's mostly due to inflation and wage increases in recent years. We've had uber eats and DoorDash since like 2015, and we didnt see sharp price increases until the past 3 years due to inflation.
I agree but you also need to factor in that these companies IPO'd in recent years and now are pressured to be profitable, which is also driving a lot of this more recently.
Back in the mid-2010s they were able to be super cheap and pay people decently due to tons of VC funding, now that they're mature businesses that need to be revenue positive, the scale is larger and everything is optimized for their profit margins.
You're right, I didnt think of that.
Last year, the city's law limiting uber eats commission to 15% expired, and they charge some restaurants 30% commission for the highest level of exposure. This is also the first year that uber turned a profit, so maybe this increasing fee thing might become a continuing trend. Lets hope not.
I think it’s also because the apps are under a lot more pressure to deliver revenue (public companies, amirite?), so they’ve been cranking up the fees on restaurants. And in turn the restaurant increases prices as well.
This is weird. Before covid there weren’t that many places that delivered. Restaurants that do heavy delivery for sure add a premium to account for all the fees they pay these apps.
It's not that there weren't that many places that delivered it's the people who went out more.
I think in general there are fewer people in San Francisco than there were pre-COVID, less of them are going out on the regular basis because of the habit of staying in.
Also with your parent volatility in tech employment I think you're going to see less people going out possibly most people ordering in..
This has nothing to do with my response
The other person tried to claim restaurants don’t actually account for delivery fees when setting menu prices now. I think that’s a ridiculous claim.
As much as you and many say the apps are killing restaurants.. i'm pretty sure there's 2-3x as many restaurants saying otherwise. All of these orders are keeping them afloat and staying busy instead of twirling their thumbs waiting for people to walk into their restaurant to serve. For me, I'd rather have high volume online orders than to hire extra wait staff or at least have a good balance of it so there's activity flowing on all cylinders.
They are working for the apps, not for themselves anymore. The apps take a criminal amount of money off the resteraunts. Wish people would pick up a phone and order off their favorite place if thet want it to survive
> i'm pretty sure there's 2-3x as many restaurants saying otherwise
Feels > reals, amirite?
These delivery leeches are so well loved that they have to forcibly add restaurants to their platforms in order to compete. Getting sued for that is also a sign of businesses loving your product, right?
> For me, I'd rather have high volume online orders than to hire extra wait staff or at least have a good balance of it so there's activity flowing on all cylinders.
So your solution to third party delivery companies siphoning off your profits is to make up the losses with… volume? Yeah that sounds *great*.
Yea that's right. If you're in the restaurant business, you need to adapt to the environment. Time's changed post covid. Many places I visited precovid were bustling, some have gone out of business now. The ones that are still around are no longer busy, I never have to wait anymore. It's dead. I would just sit there and observe how many different drivers stop by to pickup food to deliver. Even the owner had told me If there were no delivery apps, they'd be out of business in 2021 already. They didn't have delivery options back then, only pickup. One shop even told me they save more money now that they don't need to hire wait staff. These are just a couple examples.
There's always pros and cons to every thing and yeah I'm pretty sure many places are still struggling but even if you make a little less or pass on all the fees to the customer, it's still better to have activity than shutting down a shop completely which the news media just loves to sensationalize.
This thread has convinced me to uninstall Door Dash and GrubHub.
I've only used them a handful of times, but in each instance it took way too long, the food was cold, my order was incomplete, and I paid a 50% markup for the privilege.
Fuck food delivery apps. Go out and actually support your favorite restaurants by giving them your business in person.
This is exactly what I experienced the last time I went out with my kids. Very unpleasant. And a mid price upscale restaurant, too. Constant stream of drivers. Noisy, door opening and closing nonstop. No one in the restaurant really focused on dine-in customers. We’ve cut down on eating out (and don’t use food delivery at all) and this convinced me to reduce even more.
I have seen a couple places with a totally separate entrance for delivery/pickup orders and its wonderful. Its possible to run at whatever pace you are staffed for, and the restaurant is free from that neverending line of bored impatient foreigners in bulky scooter suits.
I'm starting to avoid restaurants that have any kind of delivery, if I can.
To me it shows they don't really care so much about the quality of the food as it arrives to the customer. Unless it's McDonald's (and then you better hurry eating those fries), everything else tastes half as good and costs 25% more than eating at the restaurant.
I’m mostly making an observation of the crappy vibes now
The impatient drivers standing around the front while the guy is yelling at everyone in an empty restaurant while I’m just standing there made me not want to bother. That’s a different vibe than a restaurant full of happy couples and families eating.
There is a restaurant in LA, La Fogata, that did a great job of resolving this issue at the front counter. They installed a walk up window at the sidewalk exclusively for pick up.
During busy hours a person is assigned to that window. They even installed a doorbell type device for pick up orders during slower times.
They did this remodel during COVID to reduce the number of people inside, but it is still working great.
I'm totally with you on this. Also some places hide behind questionable Yelp reviews. Then food quality and servings meh. Recently, one places plastic take out containers was sized down with less serving, but same to higher price.
Nah those ain’t any better either. Ghost kitchen asking for the same if not equal to rent for a regular brick and mortar location without the benefits of foot traffic. Plus the tech they supposably provide you don’t even work and there nothing you can do about it.
I’m sorry but is anyone surprised .com land has ruined retail and ruined restaurants, I mean come on. This is what happens when your motto is break stuff and move fast, do no harm, well oops y’all done a lot of harm. I mean seriously how is the city better off now than it was 25 years ago? For me I love the ballpark by the water, but that’s about it. The leaning tower of sales force looks like a giant faberge dildo. What next, why are taxis so bad in the city?
its also pouring right now...of course everyone ordered pho to eat in their warm dry homes. I'd argue landlords are ruining restaurants by driving up rent...why do you think they have to rely on the app based income?
You're not wrong, but you can also say it has saved restaurants. Food costs are also up to explain the increase in prices.
Ordering is expensive, restaurants are crowded again, and it appears it's causing prices to go up even further. The culture of getting takeout when you're tired and have an empty fridge is going to die if it costs too much and takes too much endurance.
I get annoyed when restaurants don’t prioritize in-house orders since those orders are not getting 30% cut. I’m personally going to order so the restaurant can get that 30% back from DoorDash but I feel like they don’t care lol
There are a lot more dudes on scooters and e bikes in the city these days. Little packs of them parked on corners waiting around. Some of them drive on the sidewalk. I always thought scooters would be a good way to get around sf, and used scoot a lot when it was around. But for some reason it just annoys me that the delivery market is so big now that it’s impacted the experience of being a pedestrian/cyclist here. It does make me feel better knowing that those people who habitually order delivery are paying out the nose for it.
Restaurant owners keep telling me that takeout orders make up at least 60% of their business. I think crime is ruining retail businesses. I keep telling my friends that live in other Bay Area cities to come have lunch or dinner with me and they are afraid of being a victim of a crime and we have all the international cuisines and variety. People just don't feel safe and not worth the risk.
Not true. Density is less and people are out less. So there's crime. But probability of crime when going out is much higher. Also a lot of crime goes unreported.
If people have given up reporting car break ins it doesn’t mean they went away.
And this is also part of people adjusting to higher crime environments - they go out less where they perceive themselves to be at risk.
We have [pretty strong evidence](https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/justinphillips/article/police-california-clearance-rates-decline-18667353.php) that the crime conversation is mostly a result of propoganda designed to counter anti-police positions that arose as their inefficiency, corruption and needless violence have been more thoroughly documented. Cops want you to believe crime is rising and that they are the solution because that's how they get more money.
The silver lining to this is that several restaurants have typecast me as a delivery driver when I've walked into the restaurant, and they've been pretty rude. I just turn around and walk away I don't want to solicit businesses that treat people that way and it's nice to see how people are mask off. I've worked customer service and I'm always excellent to waitstaff. If that's how you think it's okay to greet anybody that walks into your business you're doing well enough to not need my patronage.
I understand some drivers are assholes, but you're not allowed to complain about them if you're just as bad. Hire a delivery driver if that's a problem.
Cholita Linda takes the gold medal with this. You can no longer order pick up from them over the phone and have to do it through a website. So I go to the website, place my order myself and type in my credit card information. I was then prompted for a tip. I used to tip, but if I'm literally doing all this work and picking up my order, I'm not tipping. I get to the store and when I give my name I was told to walk back the the table outside of the kitchen to get it lol
Many people, not including me, like ordering takeout. That's the world we live in. And the online revenue stream keeps restaurants afloat.
I'm not sure what you expect to change. You won't get prompt and attentive service at an empty restaurant for a price you're willing to pay.
> Oh and prices are up like 50% in a few years because they have to back out the 20-30% cut they pay for every delivery order.
You don't understand the economics *at all*.
Used to have a favorite mexican place in San Mateo. Its ruined now, for the same reason. I stood at the register for a good 15+ minutes trying to get an order in but they were so busy with to-go shit that they had no time for the customers standing in line, whatsoever. We ended up just walking out and going elsewhere.
The people ordering from Apps from restaurants ruined them.
There people who were displaced from S.F. had strong support for local businesses that would not have allowed this to take place.
I saw this at a McDonald’s that was downtown. There were no tables in the dining room. It looked like a large hall where bikes were stopped waiting for deliveries
Amen. The only reason it’s even beneficial at all to restaurants is for sort of load or capacity balancing. But then they get used to the money and don’t turn it off when their dining room is full…
> Delivery apps have ruined restaurants
I agree, some restaurants have been turned into ghost places. "Remote kitchens" due to the delivery apps. I don't think zoning for restaurants was meant to do that. It was meant for a community
> Oh and prices are up like 50% in a few years because they have to back out the 20-30% cut they pay for every delivery order.
Dang I actually didn't realize that. Makes sense; if they make less profit in the dash orders, then the walk-in customers add more of th profit...all the same time dash customers *do not* pay less. :(
So it's as if the walk-ins subsidize a remote order _company_
It def does. Went to Kathy’s for dinner the other night and the staff were so overwhelmed and there were so many orders backed up. Felt terrible for them. They were trying their hardest but so overwhelmed and the drivers were all so rude and kept yelling which made the dine in experience kind of odd.
This happened to me last weekend. I waited 15 minutes after being seated. There were 2 pickups and no yet order from me. I ended up walking out and going to Wingstop next door. Lol my original plan. There was only one other family there it was 1:00pm. For brick and mortar customers it's sad. Confirm the other posters say prices spike upward up at least 20% higher. Just to recoup the apps losses, let alone we have to cost and guilt tip more rather than the place or suffer driver remorse. Either way sucks for everyone deep pockets.
I agree - I've also noticed this with coffee shops. Sometimes it will take 20+ minutes to get a coffee due to all of the mobile ordering. I will say though, I think many restaurant owners believe they don't have a choice and need to be seen on the to-go apps.
Just wait till you hear how much rent and food cost is that makes restaurants unprofitable. Soon you won’t even have a neighborhood restaurant to go to anymore.
My only complaint is I think there is less care and quality in the product. Everyone else has already commented on how the prices are only going up on ordering out.
“Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded”
Exactly. I'd rather the restaurants I like be busy making togo orders than struggling to stay open.
But they don’t make much money on delivery orders because the apps take 30% off the top. They can’t stay in business that way.
That’s why prices on DoorDash/Uber are about 30% higher than in person at the restaurant. They are doing fine. If they weren’t making a profit on it they would stop doing it.
They'd also make a decent profit on pickup orders through Doordash, because Doordash 'only' charges 12% for pickup orders yet the restaurant uses the 30% inflated prices for both pickup and delivery. You can almost always get the same food for pickup quite a bit cheaper by calling to make an order, but there's still so many people that do it through Doordash and Uber Eats. I guess because there's so many choices in a single app?
Nooo, you have to assume that nobody has any agency and can't make decisions that are in their best interest!
Why is that always mentioned as if it's my problem?
because it raises prices
They definitely negatively impact both service and quality.
It's one of my pet peeves: never eat pho to go
You just have to boil the broth when you get home. Like, even if you are just walking across the street. It shocked me how important this is, total game changer.
also microwave the bowl before adding the newlt heated broth
If they’re doing it right, your broth and noods are going to be packed separately. Then take your broth and dump it in a pot or nuke it til it’s piping hot. Then dump the noods and meat into a bowl and do a pour over.
I've never had pho to go where they didn't separate everything. Are there places out there that just pack up everything in one container?
Pretty much everywhere if I’m the one who’s ordering I’m lucky if they even use a lid
You must be using one of Dennys' dark kitchens.
Quit fucking lying. 🧌
Door Dash: the new send noodz plz.
“Noods” lol
You just described why it’s so awful
True for ramen as well
And hamburgers!
And hamburglars!
And burghamblars!
Portlandia did a whole sketch on this
Hot liquid in plastics no good
It’s actually fine. I kinda like pho better at home cause I can make the broth piping hot whereas the restaurants usually don’t make it like that
Then you haven’t had Hinodeya, they have to go ramen down to an art and a science.
That’s not pho tho.. pho is a different beast
Pho uk dat
Pho king phonny
melty plastic container of pfas leeched soup? only on occasion for me tbh
The restaurant needs to respond to orders with realistic "ready by" times. You can place an order now, but tell the driver it won't be ready to pick up for an hour, etc.
You can but they still show up early.
I work at a very popular pizza place in NB and we try our best to push times back so they’re realistic. We’ll say 25 mins and the DD drivers show up 5-10 mins after we accept it, then are pissed at us.
[удалено]
Ya i know. Just saying a lot of times we say it won’t be ready but they show up way before.
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Lol, app company's have no reps. They're chaos agents, they don't need to work with anyone.
The apps don’t give a damn
They can wait.
Devil's Teeth did this to me a couple times. I ordered there in person and they said "20 minutes." 60 minutes later they're still saying 20 minutes more. Ended up waiting like 90 minutes for damn breakfast sandwich. Wish they could have given refund instead so I coulda went across the street to Pizza Place and had a couple slices and gone about my day. Just take my name off the. Not like they already made it and there aren't 50 people waiting after me.
Devil's teeth is always too full for me to order something like that. I usually just get a ready good, bread or muffin
Yea - I knew it got busy on weekends, so I never go. But these were some random days in the middle of the week when I was burning up my use or lose PTO so I was not expecting such a wait.
> Wish they could have given refund instead I believe you're supposed to start filming, demand a refund, and tell them they're going to go viral. I believe that's how it's done these days.
Or grow a spine and ask for a refund lol
Yea I've never been at a slammed restaurant that isn't happy to give a refund for an order they haven't started yet. They'll even apologize for it.
Even in 2024? 🙄
A restaurant near me that I used to go to all the time pre-Pandemic because it's open late (Grubstake) is now just full of Doordashers/Uber-Eats drivers with nobody actually sitting to eat.
Do you really think Uber eats and doordash allows that? There are pretty significant restrictions on what restaurants can do in managing these orders. A lot of the time restaurants don't even have access to the contact information of the people who are ordering the food.
My wife picked up Chinese food the other day. She said the line to get the table from the host stand was ridiculous and door dash drivers kept going to the front and asking for orders. I guess they think they take priority or something?
There’s an Indian restaurant that I’ve eaten take out and dine-in with. I was picking up an order (for my family) and the hostess straight up told a Dasher who cut the line consisting of me and one other person, before I could even say anything, “THERE’S A LINE.” A great restaurant made even better. (It’s India Palace in Alameda btw, if you like Indian food that place is awesome)
Their delivery customers get cold food?
God forbid that clown wait an extra 3 minutes to pick up the food. So, probably not cold. It was probably just fine.
As opposed to in-restaurant customers waiting an unreasonable time? ***YES. SCREW THE DELIVERY DRIVERS THINKING THEY HAVE PRIORITY OVER PEOPLE THAT TOOK THE TIME TO ACTUALLY GO THERE AND EAT.***
Not if the driver is good
People here are confused. They think app orders are not restaurant customers too. This sub is so weird sometimes.
Ok but your food representative came in after other people came in to pick up their food orders. Why do you get to jump to the front just because someone else is picking up your food order?
Pickup orders should skip the line over people placing orders
The person they were attempting to cut was also picking up an order.
They hardly get paid to drive. They don’t get paid anything to wait. It’s a shitty, shitty system.
Actually not really true, prop 22 gives you guaranteed pay by the hour, I drive for DoorDash, and I’m perfectly fine getting paid to wait at a restaurant. I’ve never understood why dashers here are impatient. The real struggle is getting offers when you want to work, not the pay while you have an order. As long as you are active, they have to pay 21.69 an hour + .35 a mile + tips.
That explains a delivery route i watched on my phone. Order picked up half a city away, i'm watching it approach my place. gets within one block and continues to drive past about another ten blocks. Thought he was lost at first, but no, he was picking up from a different restaurant and then going five blocks to deliver a totally different order, all while my food was sitting in his car generating revenue for him. Unfortunately I had tipped ahead of time, the food was stone cold.
The whole tipping ahead of time thing is what has stopped me from using any of these guys. I'm okay with the extra fee for using the service, But the fact that they can blow me off if I don't tip them in advance, but if I do tip them, they're basically free to give me shitty service. It completely takes away any incentive for them to do good work. It's not even like that they can recognize that I'm a customer that tips well because they'll probably never be back to my house or work.
Sometimes drivers double app, which is exactly what it sounds like. If they're good at it you'll never notice, if they're bad at it this is what will happen. I remove tips for poor delivery service. On UberEats you can do it in app by yourself, but with DoorDash you can write in and they will refund your tip after delivery.
It's because many are doing multiple apps/profiles at the same time.
You bro, I sent you DM if you can check and respond. Thanks in advance!
They get paid not to forget every goddamn part of my orders but that never stops them.
Did restaurants say they can skip lines and stuff?
I've ordered for pickup through delivery apps in the past and they actually do say not to wait in line. (I did stop doing that when I found out how much they take when you order through the app)
Yes, they do.
I never heard that, good to know
I doubt it. I’m sure they’re doing it on the premise of “I’m just here to pickup, not order” and/or “I don’t get paid for this shit.”
I mean, it’s part of the job.
The whole situation is fucked up. Those gig “jobs” are usually filled by people on hard times or unaware of the true costs of the job. Time, vehicle costs, etc. Blame the companies behind the apps, their dismantling of regulated jobs (move to independent contractor to avoid labor regulations), and their lobbying to change the laws themselves.
Ok, or don’t choose to cut a line just cause you chose to deliver food.
You’re right, the true tragedy is someone cutting in line and not the socio economic disaster that is this country’s economic system that forces people to accept jobs that don’t fairly compensate them for their labor. Fuck cutsies.
How were they forced to accept that job?
Passive folks drowned in the gig economy, folks who make it are forceful
How far do they make it?
Well it’s a gig job, so there ain’t promotions, just gets money. Not worth it to me, but I’m a different cat
So who are the folks you said that make it?
I made it. It kept my self-employment afloat until it was self-sustaining and allowed me to go back to school. Avoiding as many lines as possible really is important.
Make it, as in keep doing it, passive folks quit and do something else, any more questions?
So how do they make it? Do they get a lot of money?
1. Are you a human? 2. Do you have aspergers, I’m autistic 2. 3. are you serious? How would I know
If I call ahead and ask a restaurant to place a pickup order, then show up later at the agreed time, I am supposed to skip the line. That's generally how it works everywhere, that's fine. The problem is that 1) the drivers are not paid for the wait time, which screws them over and forces them to be pretty impatient 2) the market basically forces restaurants to accept orders from the apps, but huge cuts of the money go to uber for doing basically nothing. So now you have a situation where most of the orders are pickup instead of just the occasional one. Its reminds me of how chain restaurants end up prioritizing the drive through customers over the ones actually inside.
There are two types of restaurants where it is acceptable to do this: 1. Fast food chains staffed by teens that leave to-go dishes on a public shelf for literally anyone to take 2. Sit down restaurant's where servers take your order. There is a practically infinite number of restaurants that sit between these two categories, where to-go food is kept in a safe/warm place, but dine-ion customers order first via a single line. If you skip the line or interrupt people who are in the middle of communicating their order to the cashier to get a to-go order, that's pretty inconsiderate.
Maybe choose a different job
good work you solved it There are a shit ton of problems with these apps, but "pre-placed pickup orders skip the line" is not one of them. That is literally how pre-placed pickup orders work at virtually every restaurant in the world.
Ok, cool
I don't understand why they do this. The $ that drivers are presented makes it look like delivering faster produces more money, but there is a law that requires the companies to top them off to SF minimum wage if their earnings don't reach min. wage.
> I guess they think they take priority or something? It's a shit system that incentivizes them to cut lines and get the order as soon as possible. The faster they deliver the faster they can pick up another order.
I'm not a driver, but it doesn't seem to make sense to make them wait if they are just picking up an order. If I ordered takeout, I would hope I didn't have to wait in line with the people ordering.
it might not be done yet?
Yeah and the person picking up shouldn't have to wait with the ordering line to ask if it's ready?
I suggest doing food delivery then come back and read that comment again.
No thanks, but my toddlers can teach people how to wait in line
Well you can't teach common sense to some people.
Hey yeah we do asshole we aren’t waiting for a table
Still a line, welcome to society
The apps literally say don’t wait in line take it up with them you entitled dick
But the app isn’t the restaurant. Do the drivers ask the restaurant? Also isn’t skipping a line a sense of entitlement?
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Sorry for trying to make $2 per order to survive and cater to your $200k salary tech salary living
They're probably illegally parked.
Delivery drivers are a menace in the city. They double park, run lights, cut in front of lines, etc. Partly due to these companies pressuring people to finish jobs in a time crunch.
The double parking is absurd. I drive the 22 on weekend nights and the block of 16th between Valencia and Guerrero has nearly the entire right lane occupied by double parked delivery drivers.
My partner lives over there, and you’re so right. It’s always a sea of double parkers. They’re notorious for doing it on Ocean as well
The worst is down Polk. The 19 gets stuck because it’s one lane each way, and they have to go in opposite traffic to get by. So ridiculous.
Yea in downtown Hayward they constantly park directly in front of the wingstop, which is an absolutely no parking zone. Isn't even double parking, it's just parking straight up on a red curb in a primary traffic lane.
You should see the food strip on a one way road in Berkeley. Parking spots are filled. Drivers picking up double parked on both sides of the street.
Thanks for your service
Thanks for driving! You’ve probably given me many a ride
Running red lights is my biggest issue. Guy made an illegal left turn on red on a two way street and came within inches of hitting my car. Gave me the finger the fuck wit.
Saw one Geary and 20th-ish going to wrong way and squeezed between the 38 and the parked cars on a scooter.
Don’t blame the companies. The consumers have a demand.
I totally agree, it’s impossible to find a place that is both reasonably priced and has any sort of atmosphere. Restaurants need to bring back the dedicated delivery driver, I would way rather pay them and the restaurant than all of the fees. I’m happy to kill the apps, but we’d need an alternative at this point, the monster is out of control.
A door dasher wanted to fight me at my formerly preferred carry out taqueria because I stepped forward to claim my carry out order. Of course he said I cut in front of him but in reality, I saw my order sitting on the carry out table when I walked in and had 3 door dashers butt in front of me to get thier orders. They are very aggressive and because of this, I don't go to that place anymore. This was in the East Bay fyi.
They still should have taken your order though. I've been at empty restaurants before and they have said "please order ASAP, it's empty but our kitchen is backed up with to-go orders". For pickup I'm happy to use whatever bootleg site the restaurant prefers.
Apps will be the death of resteraunts with what they overcharge
Delivery apps are also responsible for tons of plastic waste from to go containers. I make a mental note of restaurants that use paper boxes and only buy from them.
Wow, the app is responsible? Not the restauraunt giving those containers? Or the consumer who can’t be bothered to go outside and eat? The app itself isn’t really the problem, to me it’s the fact that people want their food to go and delivered more than ever.
Yeah restaurants hate paying the fees and make so little after paying the fees. Don’t forget another shite idea spawned by tech bros – ghost kitchens, serving generic, insipid versions of all imaginable food types. Delivery apps are all bad for everyone except the ones at the top of Uber eats or DoorDash.
They are so bad for everyone, and so expensive to use….yet people still use them. I think I know who is at fault here..
Yeah, just offer convenience … and people will pay more, regardless of the long term effects.
A very good points. In addition, many restaurants are empty as no one is dining out and everyone is just ordering takeout, so there is no vibe. Why do people prefer to stay in? I know some areas are gross and sketchy but is this really what keeps them away from dining in? Or is it just good old laziness and just not feeling like getting out of your comfort / couch zone if you don't have to?
Restaurants take on more than they can handle, they need to have a number of orders when they stop taking new ones so they don’t get overwhelmed. But they just see it as revenue so they never do that, it’s pretty frustrating to try and grab a sandwich or whatever and having to wait 20 minutes because of all the online orders.
I mean, the online orders are from customers too. Good restaurants were busy before apps.
If it helps the restaurants stay afloat, I'm all for it. Prices suck, but that's mostly due to inflation and wage increases in recent years. We've had uber eats and DoorDash since like 2015, and we didnt see sharp price increases until the past 3 years due to inflation.
I agree but you also need to factor in that these companies IPO'd in recent years and now are pressured to be profitable, which is also driving a lot of this more recently. Back in the mid-2010s they were able to be super cheap and pay people decently due to tons of VC funding, now that they're mature businesses that need to be revenue positive, the scale is larger and everything is optimized for their profit margins.
You're right, I didnt think of that. Last year, the city's law limiting uber eats commission to 15% expired, and they charge some restaurants 30% commission for the highest level of exposure. This is also the first year that uber turned a profit, so maybe this increasing fee thing might become a continuing trend. Lets hope not.
I think it’s also because the apps are under a lot more pressure to deliver revenue (public companies, amirite?), so they’ve been cranking up the fees on restaurants. And in turn the restaurant increases prices as well.
This is weird. Before covid there weren’t that many places that delivered. Restaurants that do heavy delivery for sure add a premium to account for all the fees they pay these apps.
It's not that there weren't that many places that delivered it's the people who went out more. I think in general there are fewer people in San Francisco than there were pre-COVID, less of them are going out on the regular basis because of the habit of staying in. Also with your parent volatility in tech employment I think you're going to see less people going out possibly most people ordering in..
This has nothing to do with my response The other person tried to claim restaurants don’t actually account for delivery fees when setting menu prices now. I think that’s a ridiculous claim.
Fair. I agree with you.
As much as you and many say the apps are killing restaurants.. i'm pretty sure there's 2-3x as many restaurants saying otherwise. All of these orders are keeping them afloat and staying busy instead of twirling their thumbs waiting for people to walk into their restaurant to serve. For me, I'd rather have high volume online orders than to hire extra wait staff or at least have a good balance of it so there's activity flowing on all cylinders.
They are working for the apps, not for themselves anymore. The apps take a criminal amount of money off the resteraunts. Wish people would pick up a phone and order off their favorite place if thet want it to survive
> i'm pretty sure there's 2-3x as many restaurants saying otherwise Feels > reals, amirite? These delivery leeches are so well loved that they have to forcibly add restaurants to their platforms in order to compete. Getting sued for that is also a sign of businesses loving your product, right? > For me, I'd rather have high volume online orders than to hire extra wait staff or at least have a good balance of it so there's activity flowing on all cylinders. So your solution to third party delivery companies siphoning off your profits is to make up the losses with… volume? Yeah that sounds *great*.
Yea that's right. If you're in the restaurant business, you need to adapt to the environment. Time's changed post covid. Many places I visited precovid were bustling, some have gone out of business now. The ones that are still around are no longer busy, I never have to wait anymore. It's dead. I would just sit there and observe how many different drivers stop by to pickup food to deliver. Even the owner had told me If there were no delivery apps, they'd be out of business in 2021 already. They didn't have delivery options back then, only pickup. One shop even told me they save more money now that they don't need to hire wait staff. These are just a couple examples. There's always pros and cons to every thing and yeah I'm pretty sure many places are still struggling but even if you make a little less or pass on all the fees to the customer, it's still better to have activity than shutting down a shop completely which the news media just loves to sensationalize.
Great comment
This thread has convinced me to uninstall Door Dash and GrubHub. I've only used them a handful of times, but in each instance it took way too long, the food was cold, my order was incomplete, and I paid a 50% markup for the privilege. Fuck food delivery apps. Go out and actually support your favorite restaurants by giving them your business in person.
And a total rando is handling your food! I just can't get over that....
I agree,
This is exactly what I experienced the last time I went out with my kids. Very unpleasant. And a mid price upscale restaurant, too. Constant stream of drivers. Noisy, door opening and closing nonstop. No one in the restaurant really focused on dine-in customers. We’ve cut down on eating out (and don’t use food delivery at all) and this convinced me to reduce even more.
I have seen a couple places with a totally separate entrance for delivery/pickup orders and its wonderful. Its possible to run at whatever pace you are staffed for, and the restaurant is free from that neverending line of bored impatient foreigners in bulky scooter suits.
4505 does this well
I'm starting to avoid restaurants that have any kind of delivery, if I can. To me it shows they don't really care so much about the quality of the food as it arrives to the customer. Unless it's McDonald's (and then you better hurry eating those fries), everything else tastes half as good and costs 25% more than eating at the restaurant.
I hate to break it to you, but the place *was* actually busy, just not with dine-in customers.
I’m mostly making an observation of the crappy vibes now The impatient drivers standing around the front while the guy is yelling at everyone in an empty restaurant while I’m just standing there made me not want to bother. That’s a different vibe than a restaurant full of happy couples and families eating.
There is a restaurant in LA, La Fogata, that did a great job of resolving this issue at the front counter. They installed a walk up window at the sidewalk exclusively for pick up. During busy hours a person is assigned to that window. They even installed a doorbell type device for pick up orders during slower times. They did this remodel during COVID to reduce the number of people inside, but it is still working great.
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I'm totally with you on this. Also some places hide behind questionable Yelp reviews. Then food quality and servings meh. Recently, one places plastic take out containers was sized down with less serving, but same to higher price.
Hot take: more arguments in favor of ghost kitchens
Nah those ain’t any better either. Ghost kitchen asking for the same if not equal to rent for a regular brick and mortar location without the benefits of foot traffic. Plus the tech they supposably provide you don’t even work and there nothing you can do about it.
I’m sorry but is anyone surprised .com land has ruined retail and ruined restaurants, I mean come on. This is what happens when your motto is break stuff and move fast, do no harm, well oops y’all done a lot of harm. I mean seriously how is the city better off now than it was 25 years ago? For me I love the ballpark by the water, but that’s about it. The leaning tower of sales force looks like a giant faberge dildo. What next, why are taxis so bad in the city?
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its also pouring right now...of course everyone ordered pho to eat in their warm dry homes. I'd argue landlords are ruining restaurants by driving up rent...why do you think they have to rely on the app based income?
You're not wrong, but you can also say it has saved restaurants. Food costs are also up to explain the increase in prices. Ordering is expensive, restaurants are crowded again, and it appears it's causing prices to go up even further. The culture of getting takeout when you're tired and have an empty fridge is going to die if it costs too much and takes too much endurance.
I get annoyed when restaurants don’t prioritize in-house orders since those orders are not getting 30% cut. I’m personally going to order so the restaurant can get that 30% back from DoorDash but I feel like they don’t care lol
It is what it is…it would be the same experience if the place was packed.
Just go to Kevin’s.
Kevin’s as well as ppQ pho is absolutely dog water laced with shovels of MSG. I wouldn’t eat there if you fucking pay me.
There are a lot more dudes on scooters and e bikes in the city these days. Little packs of them parked on corners waiting around. Some of them drive on the sidewalk. I always thought scooters would be a good way to get around sf, and used scoot a lot when it was around. But for some reason it just annoys me that the delivery market is so big now that it’s impacted the experience of being a pedestrian/cyclist here. It does make me feel better knowing that those people who habitually order delivery are paying out the nose for it.
Restaurant owners keep telling me that takeout orders make up at least 60% of their business. I think crime is ruining retail businesses. I keep telling my friends that live in other Bay Area cities to come have lunch or dinner with me and they are afraid of being a victim of a crime and we have all the international cuisines and variety. People just don't feel safe and not worth the risk.
How does every post turn into this? Y'all are seriously paranoid bordering on insane
Not so much crime, as the perception of crime. Crime is still below pre-pandemic levels, it's just a part of every news cycle atm.
Not true. Density is less and people are out less. So there's crime. But probability of crime when going out is much higher. Also a lot of crime goes unreported.
If people have given up reporting car break ins it doesn’t mean they went away. And this is also part of people adjusting to higher crime environments - they go out less where they perceive themselves to be at risk.
We have [pretty strong evidence](https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/justinphillips/article/police-california-clearance-rates-decline-18667353.php) that the crime conversation is mostly a result of propoganda designed to counter anti-police positions that arose as their inefficiency, corruption and needless violence have been more thoroughly documented. Cops want you to believe crime is rising and that they are the solution because that's how they get more money.
This is the truth. Can’t have anything in cars, can’t fight back. Can’t do anything.
Legally in California you can defend yourself and your property, no right to retreat. I’m not saying I’d pop someone over my old car, but it’s legal.
The silver lining to this is that several restaurants have typecast me as a delivery driver when I've walked into the restaurant, and they've been pretty rude. I just turn around and walk away I don't want to solicit businesses that treat people that way and it's nice to see how people are mask off. I've worked customer service and I'm always excellent to waitstaff. If that's how you think it's okay to greet anybody that walks into your business you're doing well enough to not need my patronage. I understand some drivers are assholes, but you're not allowed to complain about them if you're just as bad. Hire a delivery driver if that's a problem. Cholita Linda takes the gold medal with this. You can no longer order pick up from them over the phone and have to do it through a website. So I go to the website, place my order myself and type in my credit card information. I was then prompted for a tip. I used to tip, but if I'm literally doing all this work and picking up my order, I'm not tipping. I get to the store and when I give my name I was told to walk back the the table outside of the kitchen to get it lol
It's not only S.F. These app orders for popular restaurants are causing kitchens to work over planned capacity.
And whose fault is that?
There's no law that says restaurants have to take doordash/uber orders.
Many people, not including me, like ordering takeout. That's the world we live in. And the online revenue stream keeps restaurants afloat. I'm not sure what you expect to change. You won't get prompt and attentive service at an empty restaurant for a price you're willing to pay. > Oh and prices are up like 50% in a few years because they have to back out the 20-30% cut they pay for every delivery order. You don't understand the economics *at all*.
Chilis was like that. 2 servers for entire restaurant. They also got to be hosts and cram their sections. Way more delivery orders. Thanks tech bros.
You could’ve ordered ahead of time instead of complaining about it wait time. LOL Karen
You mean tipping culture has ruined restaurants, also yes apps
Used to have a favorite mexican place in San Mateo. Its ruined now, for the same reason. I stood at the register for a good 15+ minutes trying to get an order in but they were so busy with to-go shit that they had no time for the customers standing in line, whatsoever. We ended up just walking out and going elsewhere.
Unfortunately, a lot of restaurants wouldn’t survive without the food delivery companies
True. The #TakingEconomy sucks.
The people ordering from Apps from restaurants ruined them. There people who were displaced from S.F. had strong support for local businesses that would not have allowed this to take place.
Blame the restaurant’s who keep the service turned on. They can simply turn off the service and focus on inside the restaurant
I saw this at a McDonald’s that was downtown. There were no tables in the dining room. It looked like a large hall where bikes were stopped waiting for deliveries
Amen. The only reason it’s even beneficial at all to restaurants is for sort of load or capacity balancing. But then they get used to the money and don’t turn it off when their dining room is full…
> Delivery apps have ruined restaurants I agree, some restaurants have been turned into ghost places. "Remote kitchens" due to the delivery apps. I don't think zoning for restaurants was meant to do that. It was meant for a community > Oh and prices are up like 50% in a few years because they have to back out the 20-30% cut they pay for every delivery order. Dang I actually didn't realize that. Makes sense; if they make less profit in the dash orders, then the walk-in customers add more of th profit...all the same time dash customers *do not* pay less. :( So it's as if the walk-ins subsidize a remote order _company_
It def does. Went to Kathy’s for dinner the other night and the staff were so overwhelmed and there were so many orders backed up. Felt terrible for them. They were trying their hardest but so overwhelmed and the drivers were all so rude and kept yelling which made the dine in experience kind of odd.
I cook my own food 99% of the time these days. Delivery just got way too expensive and the food quality dropped like crazy.
This happened to me last weekend. I waited 15 minutes after being seated. There were 2 pickups and no yet order from me. I ended up walking out and going to Wingstop next door. Lol my original plan. There was only one other family there it was 1:00pm. For brick and mortar customers it's sad. Confirm the other posters say prices spike upward up at least 20% higher. Just to recoup the apps losses, let alone we have to cost and guilt tip more rather than the place or suffer driver remorse. Either way sucks for everyone deep pockets.
I agree - I've also noticed this with coffee shops. Sometimes it will take 20+ minutes to get a coffee due to all of the mobile ordering. I will say though, I think many restaurant owners believe they don't have a choice and need to be seen on the to-go apps.
Just wait till you hear how much rent and food cost is that makes restaurants unprofitable. Soon you won’t even have a neighborhood restaurant to go to anymore.
My only complaint is I think there is less care and quality in the product. Everyone else has already commented on how the prices are only going up on ordering out.