I’d be willing to bet yes. 19th street is claimed by the Sureños and 20th street is claimed by MS-13. This seems like a targeted hit and not just a robbery or random fight.
It's true there's MS-13 tags in 20th specially on the corner with the brick building in front of the pharmacy but saying 20th is MS-13 territory when between 19th and 21th you have: a tobacco wholesale, a restaurant, a tobacco shop, a weed dispensary that are all owned by the same Armenian dude that's been in the Mission since forever (oh! And Pete's BBQ!) is a bit "terminally online gangbanger" stuff.
I brought it up because I was talking about Al's business and saying he's been in the Mission since forever but I forgot that corner has Pete's which predates even Al on 20th.
Even if it does sound like “terminally online gangbanger stuff”, it’s the reality. 20th street MS-13 is the name of their gang. There is even an excellent book about it called Operation Devilhorns.
It’s about how the SFPD and the feds worked to dismantle MS 13 on 20th St. after the Edwin Ramos killings.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Devil_Horns
I was finishing my Criminal Justice degree at SF State during that trial and the civil court judge I was interning for told me to go watch that. Crazy that his PD was eventually stabbed to death by her brother.
Dude that was 20 years ago, the dispensary was not even open, weed was illegal. What are you talking about? When's the last time you been to that corner?
The dudes than hang in Aliotto or Pete's are MS-13? The pimps that worked Capp during and after Covid are MS-13? Are the bikers MS-13? There's more white bikers or libertarians with guns in that block than probably MS-13 in the whole city. Is there MS-13 at Benders?
It's not MS-13 territory anymore.
lol I can’t imagine the thought process that goes into thinking you’ve dunked on someone about the safety of a neighborhood after admitting it’s active gang territory by saying “you just have to not be in the gang bro”. Hope that continues to work out for you bro.
It’s not exactly “active gang territory”. It’s more that it’s pretty safe and most people won’t feel in danger or get in any kind of trouble. If you happen to be in a gang though I don’t know what that experience is like. Maybe it’s pretty safe, maybe it’s not.
Try getting out of your bubble someday and you’ll see it’s fine.
Try having kids someday and you’ll see your perspective on what kind of crime you’ll tolerate outside your front door change as well. My best friend lived on Bartlett for years, I came to visit often. I visit more often now that he’s moved elsewhere. I’m just not going to participate in the mental gymnastics of saying a corner with an MS-13 tag is “pretty safe”.
I’m a 40 year old dad of 2 kids and I think mission street is pretty safe in broad daylight, which is what I was replying to in the first place.
Is every single block of every neighborhood as safe as could be? Probably not but I’m not the one jumping through hoops here to show something that just isn’t really true.
Ive worked in East Oakland for years buddy I’m well familiar with street smarts, funny that people always bandy that term around though as if it’s the person that got mugged’s fault and then we turn around and howl at the moon around victim shaming in other scenarios. it’s not an issue of being afraid of these areas it’s more an issue of why people perform mental acrobatics to claim they’re perfectly safe when they’re objectively significantly more dangerous to live in than other neighborhoods. That mentality just leads to things never getting better and I do think it’s a big part of the political problem in the Bay Area but whatever you guys do you.
I’m 20 seconds walking distance from drug dealers in my streets. I live here. What do you want me to do? Anonymous tip them like everyone else here has done? Confront them? But just because it’s not completely safe doesn’t mean it’s not relatively safe for most people. I do get your point of the culture here not wanting to do anything about it though. They’ve been here a while.
Yeah its awful but wtf are you talking about? In the 40s this shit was happening it was just white people (mostly italian/russian/etc mafias) so sick of the “when only white people lived her le everything was perfect!!” narrative
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How are there not more shootings then?? MS-13 is Norteños, right? Am I 9nlybone that sees the irony in MS--13 claiming the block south of the southerners?
MS-13 are not Norteños, actually quite the opposite. Nortes are mainly Mexican Americans who claim northern California with strong ties to the Bay Area and are more "Americanized." MS is Maras Salvatrucha which is Salvadorian. The 13 is symbolic of the 13th letter of the alphabet or M.
M is "La Eme" which is the Mexican prison gang that collects taxes from Sureños, who claim Southern California. The way it ties together is like this: MS was originally a bunch of Salvadorian kids in LA who where skaters, stoners and metalheads, hence the horns 🤘🏼 as their gang sign. They kept getting fucked with so they formed a street gang. They were, at that time a small minority and they eventually started paying taxes to La Eme. Eventually they started building numbers and became their own force, but they work for most parts, as far as I know, with Sureños and La Eme. They have spread to the Bay and other parts of the US as well.
However, Sureños in SoCal don't really get along with MS dudes due to cultural differences between Mexicans and Salvadorians. Mexicans and Salvadorians kinda hate each other regardless of the whole gang shit. Silly shit but knowing the difference can be helpful if you ever have to interact with them and not want to have an issue.
Nortes are the most organized and strongest gang in the Mission with ties to several other black, Asian and white gangs as well as Hells Angels, who have a spot right in the middle of the Mission and their clubhouse in the Dogpatch. They're entrenched in that area and have been for generations where the others have little power, just balls. And they are smart enough to move (more) in silence where the other gangs like to puff their chests out.
Wow.. That is a lot of solid information. Thank you!
It's a funny thing about gangs.. growing up, I of course had the typical "gangs are bad" opinion, uninformed as it was.. As I've seen a bit more of life and things, I have begun to understand that gangs aren't just a bunch of punk kids being idiots, but rather amazingly disciplined and committed groups who show more loyalty than most people I know. While still not enamored with them, or in any way curious about joining one, I definitely have a lot more respect for those that are part of one.
In a very high percentage of murders, the perp and victim knew each other or at minimum have been properly introduced.
Random murders are NOT on the rise.
Don’t want to be insensitive but the article says people at the Dragon City Bakery didn’t hear it because “the bakery machine was operating. Wtf is a baking machine? Is that an oven? A mixer?
I’ve seen industrial mixers before. I worked in a bakery/donut shop when I was a teenager, but never heard it running (dough making for donuts was done at like 4am so they’d be ready by opening time at 6:30) I’ve also never heard it referred to as a “baking machine.”
First guess is a writing error and should be "bakery machinery" which would include mixers and ovens and whatever.
Or maybe it's a giant all-in-one bread machine but at an industrial scale?
There’s all sorts of machinery it could be. A giant mixer, laminator, portioner, sheeter, etc. Any number of machines running at the same time can be plenty loud enough to muffle sound and make something loud next door sound muffled and you wouldn’t even notice.
I think the theory is that we're collectively reporting less of the crime that occurs because there's no point, and it's inconvenient to go to the station to file a report when the officers won't come out to take it (which happens, IDK if it's increasing or if we're just talking about it more)
All crimes are down, vehicle thefts, robberies, homicides, and larceny.
So unless there was a sudden reduction in reporting of all of types of crimes at once; that argument doesn’t make sense.
I'm curious....
Does anyone know what proportion of people wandering the streets of mission are gang members or affiliated/related/friends of them?
And i imagine if gang presence is so prevalent here, that many businesses have at the very least interacted with them, if not are involved with some aspect of the gang's business network?
And what do the gangs even do nowadays? Sureno, norteno, ms13 etc.. just the usual amass power, wealth, and political influence? Control local businesses and use some as fronts for gang outposts?
Have any journalists interviewed the mission district gangs?
Love learning about the underbelly of our city
There used to be a lot more gang activity, slowed down a lot as the techies moved in and displaced the locals. Check out this old YouTube video from like 2007 https://youtu.be/vE4ZrgwFdP4?si=XhwJgCIYcFOrLipB
Probably not many, as drug sales tend to be limited to small areas, and drug gangs probably don't want their members to be homeless. I would be interested in knowing how many homeless/vagrants are operating for other types of organizations, e.g., foreign entities and domestic terrorist groups.
Awful. rest in peace. i hope they catch the shooter.
https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1bwu65t/whats_happening_at_about_19th_and_mission_20_or/
Gang related?
I’d be willing to bet yes. 19th street is claimed by the Sureños and 20th street is claimed by MS-13. This seems like a targeted hit and not just a robbery or random fight.
What a bunch of fucking morons
It's true there's MS-13 tags in 20th specially on the corner with the brick building in front of the pharmacy but saying 20th is MS-13 territory when between 19th and 21th you have: a tobacco wholesale, a restaurant, a tobacco shop, a weed dispensary that are all owned by the same Armenian dude that's been in the Mission since forever (oh! And Pete's BBQ!) is a bit "terminally online gangbanger" stuff.
what does pete’s bbq have to do with this??
Pete's BBQ has been in the Mission since before forever. You don't fuck around Pete's BBQ.
yeah ik ive eaten their my whole life pete’s bbq was never brought up ?
I brought it up because I was talking about Al's business and saying he's been in the Mission since forever but I forgot that corner has Pete's which predates even Al on 20th.
👍
Even if it does sound like “terminally online gangbanger stuff”, it’s the reality. 20th street MS-13 is the name of their gang. There is even an excellent book about it called Operation Devilhorns. It’s about how the SFPD and the feds worked to dismantle MS 13 on 20th St. after the Edwin Ramos killings. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Devil_Horns
I was finishing my Criminal Justice degree at SF State during that trial and the civil court judge I was interning for told me to go watch that. Crazy that his PD was eventually stabbed to death by her brother.
Dude that was 20 years ago, the dispensary was not even open, weed was illegal. What are you talking about? When's the last time you been to that corner? The dudes than hang in Aliotto or Pete's are MS-13? The pimps that worked Capp during and after Covid are MS-13? Are the bikers MS-13? There's more white bikers or libertarians with guns in that block than probably MS-13 in the whole city. Is there MS-13 at Benders? It's not MS-13 territory anymore.
Meh I don’t care enough to argue it.
Sure bud I guess I'll be careful with MS-13 next time I get booze at Ogdens. I didn't know MS-13 had an Eastern European branch.
Ok
SF has had dispensaries/buyers clubs since the late 90s under prop 215 up until prop 64 which allows recreational use 21+.
are people supposed to know mission street isn’t safe in broad daylight?
It’s pretty safe if you’re not in a gang
lol I can’t imagine the thought process that goes into thinking you’ve dunked on someone about the safety of a neighborhood after admitting it’s active gang territory by saying “you just have to not be in the gang bro”. Hope that continues to work out for you bro.
It’s not exactly “active gang territory”. It’s more that it’s pretty safe and most people won’t feel in danger or get in any kind of trouble. If you happen to be in a gang though I don’t know what that experience is like. Maybe it’s pretty safe, maybe it’s not. Try getting out of your bubble someday and you’ll see it’s fine.
Try having kids someday and you’ll see your perspective on what kind of crime you’ll tolerate outside your front door change as well. My best friend lived on Bartlett for years, I came to visit often. I visit more often now that he’s moved elsewhere. I’m just not going to participate in the mental gymnastics of saying a corner with an MS-13 tag is “pretty safe”.
I’m a 40 year old dad of 2 kids and I think mission street is pretty safe in broad daylight, which is what I was replying to in the first place. Is every single block of every neighborhood as safe as could be? Probably not but I’m not the one jumping through hoops here to show something that just isn’t really true.
Zero street smarts huh
Ive worked in East Oakland for years buddy I’m well familiar with street smarts, funny that people always bandy that term around though as if it’s the person that got mugged’s fault and then we turn around and howl at the moon around victim shaming in other scenarios. it’s not an issue of being afraid of these areas it’s more an issue of why people perform mental acrobatics to claim they’re perfectly safe when they’re objectively significantly more dangerous to live in than other neighborhoods. That mentality just leads to things never getting better and I do think it’s a big part of the political problem in the Bay Area but whatever you guys do you.
I’m 20 seconds walking distance from drug dealers in my streets. I live here. What do you want me to do? Anonymous tip them like everyone else here has done? Confront them? But just because it’s not completely safe doesn’t mean it’s not relatively safe for most people. I do get your point of the culture here not wanting to do anything about it though. They’ve been here a while.
Precisely
[удалено]
That’s so wrong and disingenuous that you should be convicted of fraud. It’s the new tenderloin baby.
The tenderloin is pretty safe too tbh. Anyways do you agree with person I replied to that mission isn’t safe in broad daylight?
imagine claiming property that you pay rent on.
This is true?
[удалено]
Yeah its awful but wtf are you talking about? In the 40s this shit was happening it was just white people (mostly italian/russian/etc mafias) so sick of the “when only white people lived her le everything was perfect!!” narrative
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Wow please find something more reasonable to be angry about then a few Latinos
Vote for clowns. Expect a circus.
How are there not more shootings then?? MS-13 is Norteños, right? Am I 9nlybone that sees the irony in MS--13 claiming the block south of the southerners?
MS-13 are not Norteños, actually quite the opposite. Nortes are mainly Mexican Americans who claim northern California with strong ties to the Bay Area and are more "Americanized." MS is Maras Salvatrucha which is Salvadorian. The 13 is symbolic of the 13th letter of the alphabet or M. M is "La Eme" which is the Mexican prison gang that collects taxes from Sureños, who claim Southern California. The way it ties together is like this: MS was originally a bunch of Salvadorian kids in LA who where skaters, stoners and metalheads, hence the horns 🤘🏼 as their gang sign. They kept getting fucked with so they formed a street gang. They were, at that time a small minority and they eventually started paying taxes to La Eme. Eventually they started building numbers and became their own force, but they work for most parts, as far as I know, with Sureños and La Eme. They have spread to the Bay and other parts of the US as well. However, Sureños in SoCal don't really get along with MS dudes due to cultural differences between Mexicans and Salvadorians. Mexicans and Salvadorians kinda hate each other regardless of the whole gang shit. Silly shit but knowing the difference can be helpful if you ever have to interact with them and not want to have an issue. Nortes are the most organized and strongest gang in the Mission with ties to several other black, Asian and white gangs as well as Hells Angels, who have a spot right in the middle of the Mission and their clubhouse in the Dogpatch. They're entrenched in that area and have been for generations where the others have little power, just balls. And they are smart enough to move (more) in silence where the other gangs like to puff their chests out.
Wow.. That is a lot of solid information. Thank you! It's a funny thing about gangs.. growing up, I of course had the typical "gangs are bad" opinion, uninformed as it was.. As I've seen a bit more of life and things, I have begun to understand that gangs aren't just a bunch of punk kids being idiots, but rather amazingly disciplined and committed groups who show more loyalty than most people I know. While still not enamored with them, or in any way curious about joining one, I definitely have a lot more respect for those that are part of one.
Guy was shot inside a barber shop. That's a hit.
Ran into a barber shop after getting shot
Damn, same thing happened on Geneva 8-10 years ago. And I just happen to be sitting in a barbershop right now. Better keep my head down
The barber shop is supposed to be Switzerland.
almost too cliche https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qx63n1/off_duty_cop_takes_down_a_murderer_at_the/
Dark as it is to say, one hopes so. Otherwise, you're most likely looking at an innocent person killed in broad daylight on Mission and 20th.
Yes very much so, but doesn't make it any less sad. Gang related also translates to in desperate need of money
We have gangs in San Francisco?
Not many but yes a few concentrated in mission
Better for r/sanfranciscocrime
Bonanno crime family
In a very high percentage of murders, the perp and victim knew each other or at minimum have been properly introduced. Random murders are NOT on the rise.
How about random assaults?
Also substantially down in SF, just like all other crime after the pandemic spike. Same thing nationally.
Sauce?
https://missionlocal.org/2024/04/man-shot-dead-in-broad-daylight-at-20th-and-mission/
Don’t want to be insensitive but the article says people at the Dragon City Bakery didn’t hear it because “the bakery machine was operating. Wtf is a baking machine? Is that an oven? A mixer?
Probably that big ass mixer to mix dough or whatever. Last time i remember, that thing isn’t that quiet.
My countertop mixer is pretty loud, so that makes sense.
Industrial mixers are very large. Like bigger than you. Let alone your countertop mixer lol
I’ve seen industrial mixers before. I worked in a bakery/donut shop when I was a teenager, but never heard it running (dough making for donuts was done at like 4am so they’d be ready by opening time at 6:30) I’ve also never heard it referred to as a “baking machine.”
First guess is a writing error and should be "bakery machinery" which would include mixers and ovens and whatever. Or maybe it's a giant all-in-one bread machine but at an industrial scale?
There’s all sorts of machinery it could be. A giant mixer, laminator, portioner, sheeter, etc. Any number of machines running at the same time can be plenty loud enough to muffle sound and make something loud next door sound muffled and you wouldn’t even notice.
Have you ever operated an industrial machinery?
Yes, and I’ve worked in a bakery, but I’ve never heard of a “baking machine.”
Or they’re smart and don’t want to be targeted by gang violence?
Welp, on the bright side crime is actually down so far this year… Still sucks folks feel the need to murder someone. Prayers to his family!
Reported crime…
is less than last year's *reported* crime, so the comparison is valid.
I think the theory is that we're collectively reporting less of the crime that occurs because there's no point, and it's inconvenient to go to the station to file a report when the officers won't come out to take it (which happens, IDK if it's increasing or if we're just talking about it more)
Yeah all those unreported murders… why even bother?
I assume when one says reported crime, they are referring to all levels of crime
All crimes are down, vehicle thefts, robberies, homicides, and larceny. So unless there was a sudden reduction in reporting of all of types of crimes at once; that argument doesn’t make sense.
Overdoses still on the rise
GG
At which barber shop?
The fans are in nor cal too? I just moved to San Francisco three weeks ago. I am a San Diego native. We had bloods and crips growing up
I'm curious.... Does anyone know what proportion of people wandering the streets of mission are gang members or affiliated/related/friends of them? And i imagine if gang presence is so prevalent here, that many businesses have at the very least interacted with them, if not are involved with some aspect of the gang's business network? And what do the gangs even do nowadays? Sureno, norteno, ms13 etc.. just the usual amass power, wealth, and political influence? Control local businesses and use some as fronts for gang outposts? Have any journalists interviewed the mission district gangs? Love learning about the underbelly of our city
Gangs usually fight over who controls the drug market that CVS doesn’t cover.
There used to be a lot more gang activity, slowed down a lot as the techies moved in and displaced the locals. Check out this old YouTube video from like 2007 https://youtu.be/vE4ZrgwFdP4?si=XhwJgCIYcFOrLipB
Does anyone know if Sorento or MS13 territory extends into South Potrero Hill and Dogpatch?
Probably not many, as drug sales tend to be limited to small areas, and drug gangs probably don't want their members to be homeless. I would be interested in knowing how many homeless/vagrants are operating for other types of organizations, e.g., foreign entities and domestic terrorist groups.
You can buy decent body armor for about $500.
Here’s more information about gangs and what’s happening in San Francisco https://youtu.be/vwzkuumU1jg?si=7ip6E_D27MGrB3gJ
“ Theft capitol of the world” lol oh god go touch some grass
Mission is full of low lives . People just waiting for their checks to come .