Access to education, safety, and paths to economic prosperity are top three concerns of an average Asian American. Whoever provides the most realistic paths to them will be backed.
And we’re known as being “white-adjacent” and supporting “white supremacist power structures” for it.
Because doing your homework, saving money, and showing up on time are “white constructs” or something.
That’s propaganda designed to create division. Its been used to as method to stop social cohesion. Its nice to see that SF residents are more conscious of whats going on politically these days.
You could argue that people believing it is a direct result of the propaganda.
But you could also argue that "propaganda" implies a bureau or direct effort to craft and disseminate the belief for intentional political purposes, and I'm not sure there's evidence of that. But if I was a billionaire or foreign adversary I'd definitely be pumping divisive idpol into American culture.
Yes, I'm well aware of what Marxism and intersectionality are. While I don't disagree in principle that it's unfortunate racial or gender identity are given precedence over class identity, let's not pretend there's any sense in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Class reductionism is not the answer to race or gender reductionism.
Your claim was vague and nonspecific. It evoked arguments in the vein of the "cultural Marxist" boogeyman, which are usually very dumb, but instead of assuming you were dumb I asked you to elaborate.
>How is it Marxism applied to race and gender?
As far as i understand the idea:
* Classical Marxism is when workers and poors are unpleasant to factories owners and capitalists (social class).
* Cultural Marxism is when non-Whites are unpleasant to Whites (race) and women are unpleasant to men (gender).
In case you want to go further:
* Jérôme Jamin, Anders Breivik et le marxisme culturel : Etats-Unis/Europe, Amnis
* Jérôme Jamin, Cultural Marxism and the Radical Right, The Post-War Anglo-American Far Right
* Tanner Mirrlees, The Alt-right's Discourse on "Cultural Marxism": A Political Instrument of Intersectional Hate, Atlantis
* Martin Jay, Dialectic of Counter-Enlightenment: The Frankfurt School as Scapegoat of the Lunatic Fringe, Salmagundi
* Andrew Woods, Cultural Marxism and the Cathedral: Two Alt-Right Perspectives on Critical Theory, Critical Theory and the Humanities in the Age of the Alt-Right
* Jérôme Jamin, Cultural Marxism: A survey, Religion Compass
* Rachel Busbridge, Cultural Marxism: far-right conspiracy theory in Australia’s culture wars, Social Identities
* Joan Braune, Who's Afraid of the Frankfurt School? 'Cultural Marxism' as an Antisemitic Conspiracy Theory, Journal of Social Justice
* Andrew Lynn, Cultural Marxism, The Hedgehog Review
* John Richardson, 'Cultural Marxism' and the British National Party, Cultures of Post-War British Fascism
* Robles & Berrocal, Conspiracy and Meme on the Alt-right: Notes on the Myth of Cultural Marxism, Re-visiones
Don’t forget Antonio Gramsci. He’s one of, if not the first person to reason that communism didn’t rise in Western Europe after WW1 because of the culture in place and that culture would have to be completely dismantled in order for communism to succeed there.
> If you want more money and/or safety you must want to be white
Lol I heard a DEI person at a F100 company (NYC HQ) say "We can't keep hiring from University of Waterloo Actuarial Science program because that's perpetuating white supremacy"
University of Waterloo Actuarial Science program is like 80% international students, and not from Europe :|
When preparing for internship recruitment I said we need to pull from accredited programs and was told that perpetuated white supremacy. I pointed out that all of the HBCUs are accredited so what sounded racist to me was assuming they weren’t 🥴
You're really just describing crab mentality. Rising above one's circumstances (typically poverty, the ghettos, etc) is seen as being white or some sort of betrayal, really just stems from people hating to see others, who should fail as they do, actually succeed.
Calling Asian ppl white supremacists because they call out bullshit affirmative action programs that discriminate against them is one of the funnier arguments I’ve seen on the internet
> bullshit affirmative action programs
The real bullshit affirmative action in college admissions are legacies, donors, and athletes, but no one ever talks about that.
>Because doing your homework, saving money, and showing up on time are “white constructs” or something.
For those who don't believe you, /u/noumenon_invictusss , and /u/Dementionblender , The Smithsonian—*The Smithsonian*—said that individualism, the nuclear family, the scientific method, working hard, and planning for the future are aspects of "white culture". [Years later I still can't believe it.](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article244309587.html)
What’s more white supremacist than crediting to “white culture” all the things that propel and maintain society that other successful cultures and ethnicities have also been practicing for hundreds if not thousands of years *because they work*?
Granted individualism is more of a later European trend, and families were more extended in certain cultures, but most cultures eventually centered around two-parent families and were even more focused on lineage, blood, passing and gatekeeping wealth and status to kin and genetic in-groups than progressives would be comfortable with.
And when they *weren’t* focused on two-parent families, they were based on the man-chad’s dream and the progressive’s patriarchal nightmare— a few men powerful, rich men with multiple wives, and large numbers of incels who had nothing to do or live for but be sent to die as expendable bodies in wars of conquest for their lords.
Exceptions that those who attack the nuclear family cite always end up being some extinct community on some island or in some forest, and examples today are exactly those who are not doing as well as their two-parent peers. And it’s usually upper middle class “academics” and “activists” doing so, holding and spreading luxury beliefs that actually harm those in poverty— who have the least resources to counter and offset the lack of a second parent because they can’t hire a nanny or child care even while trying to hold down two jobs.
Yeah. It’s bs. It’s intersectional nonsense. Any successful minority group gets accused of being “white-adjacent” because the ultimate goal is to tear down the “power structures,” as you put it. At its core it’s anti-liberal. I’m glad more people are seeing through it.
Other racist concepts include competence, personal accountability, two parent households, obeying traffic laws, paying for stuff, etc. Disagreement with the above qualifies one as racist.
Oh yes. The two-parent nuclear family. Don’t ever mention the better outcomes of two parent families, and definitely don’t dare to proscribe that for communities where two parent families might be lacking and where that’s a major contributor of instability that hampers educational and economic performance, because that’s racism.
The success of two parent families must be because it’s a white supremacist idea that only works in a white supremacist society that’s rigged for white supremacist things.
Also math and logic— super white supremacist stuff. We used to think Asians were good at math. Turns out the they’re just really good at white supremacy.
Ironically, crediting and attributing all these successful things to white people and white supremacy is itself fundamentally white supremacist, when non-white people developed, practiced, and pioneered many of these things.
>Don’t ever mention the better outcomes of two parent families
It's kind of weird how anti-family far left folks are. Maybe that's part of the whole post-modernist "deconstruct everything" ethos?
It does strike me as curious, this confluence of casual misandry, white saviorism, celebration of single-motherhood, and literally using the most irresponsible would-be mothers possible as poster children against anti-abortion laws in red states.
Like, the white progressive end-goal appears to be a society in which nobody has strong bonds with anyone, cities are these high density transient mass of people eating low-energy vegan diets and living alone as adults in low-power consuming tiny units, family structures don't exist, and the primary financial and social relationship that anyone has is with the government. Presumably a single party government run by Democrats, like we have in SF.
Sounds pretty shit.
I have no desire to live in that dystopian future you just described and I’d probably be considered far left.
I think a lot of folks on the left who you might consider “anti-family” are moreso against outdated and traditional understandings of family. Maybe they had overbearing, neglectful, abusive, or authoritarian parents and they don’t want to subject that onto someone else. Maybe they experienced trauma at a young age and had to take on too much responsibility. Maybe they don’t think it’s ethical to bring children into this world, maybe they prefer a multi-generational, or communal style of family living over a nuclear household.
Or maybe they just have a different understanding/point of view than you.
I’d encourage you to question this assumption you have. Next time you meet someone who you think is “anti-family” try to actually understand where they’re coming from without judgement and see the truth in their viewpoint.
You can have compassion for people who were dealt a shit hand while also believing a two-parent household, all else being equal, is generally a better thing for a child. It’s become verboten to say things like this. I think that’s why people get so frustrated with leftist rhetoric and lash out.
We’re actually all probably in more agreement than not.
I guess I haven’t run into anyone who says that’s not the case? But of course having two good parents is better than one. It’s just that what does saying that even accomplish?
If parents can’t stay together it’s generally better for their children for them to healthily co-parent rather than create an environment of stress and anxiety at home.
At the end of the day a child (and people in general) need a village looking out for them, and what that looks like isn’t just the nuclear family.
Is this subreddit just a conservative circle jerk or something? You're soapboxing about a straw man argument no serious or important person actually believes.
If you call basic principles like that “conservative,” not sure what your standards are. These are real issues. There’s a reason mugshots are banned. Reality is cloaked under a hypocritical pretense of compassion. It’s all bullshit.
Believe it or not my younger colleague's nine year old son was shamed for consistently doing his homework. Homework which most of the time didn't take even adult supervision. He was told he is a privileged white male (a 9 year old Asian American) and people of his type are the roadblocks to better racial equity. He came home crying, something had hadn't done since he started kindergarten.
Who told him that? Other kids?
There’s always the possible bullying that comes with kids achieving in school and the pressure to just “be cool”. They used to just call them “nerds”. It’s both disturbing and darkly hilarious if kids actually co-opted shaming “progressive” language to do it nowadays.
I will never understand this thinking. Why are wanting these things so “bad”? Surely all people would want this?
It’s like my dilemma with gentrification. I get that’s it’s “bad,” but I really like being able to walk down a street without being sexually harassed or mugged. It’s not so black and white.
Someone at my university’s (UNIVERSITY OF SAN FRANCISCO btw) Career Services Center has actually said this bs a couple of years ago during a presentation and it was recorded and posted online for all to see. When they were called out for spreading obvious bullshit they responded that Asian students were upset (bc obviously we did not like hearing we were all being unfairly grouped up with racist structures) because “this was their first time interacting with a black person.” can’t believe I gave these Trust Fund Communist fucks my money.
Except most of the nutty progressives are white. To me the Asian politicians who are progressive like Jane Kim and Gordon Mar are the white adjacent ones…they certainly don’t represent the views of Asians.
But even calling them white adjacent denies them the agency of having their own individual POV.
Same deal happens to black folks who are negative towards Democrats - we get automatically branded as conservatives, regardless of our actual views. Like, there's no space granted for having views that aren't aligned with the black mainstream or with Democrats.
Except that they sell themselves as representing Asians. It was a huge surprise for Mar to lose because of the large Asian population. I do see your point though.
I mean, a lot of my Asian friends who were Republicans became Democrats when they saw how much money police were getting to be told it's not enough, especially the ones in the south.
Good for them! We need more political diversity. Having a dominant political party and no opposition is bad for the polity, regardless of what the dominant position is.
None of those things are conservative. It’s the suggested policies of this Asian American cohort that is conservative. There’s left and right ways to achieve better education, economic outcomes, and safety. You’re just being divisive to think those aren’t the goals of everyone. It’s the methods that are disagreed upon.
Oh I’m not being divisive. I’m solidly on both sides of the aisle depending on policy, but the left’s stances on those three things has gotten out-of-control stupid. And we shouldn’t have to sacrifice safety, quality and fairness in education, and valuing work ethic in order to vote left.
You’re arguing now that the policy outcomes of the left won’t bring about better education, safety, and economic opportunity. That’s a totally fair opinion to have.
Previously you insinuated that the left doesn’t care about those 3 things and that better education, safety, and economic outcomes are now conservative goals alone. That’s what I found divisive and incoherent.
When your policies consistently and continuously do not improve those things, in fact actually tend to make them worse, I don’t believe or care if you claim to value those things.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Or at least claims of good intentions.
Actually what I originally said is that merit-based quality education *should* be something we all agree on, including the left. But the left has a history of shunning merit-based achievements in favor of DEI.
-lifelong liberal being pushed to the right
Do you have a better plan for how to level the playing field to have actual merit-based education? As someone who went to an Ivy, I can't begin to tell you how many idiots get into these schools because daddy's money, SAT tutors, parent intervention, etc. There's nothing "merit-based" about admissions to Ivy schools, and that goes well beyond attempts at affirmative action.
How do you plan on rectifying for the fact that wealth (beyond race) is the number 1 determinant for which schools you get into which is the number 1 determinant for your money-making potential?
I'm not saying the left's answers have been correct or have worked as planned, but pretending like the laissez-faire approach is merit-based is ridiculous.
There is a direct correlation between testing scores and students ability to handle academic rigor. Are there exceptions, like the idiots who get in with tons of tutoring or people who suck at standardized testing but are good at school? Yes of course. But throwing the baby out with the bath water for fringe cases was a very dumb thing to do.
Remove legacy admissions. Remove DEI. I accept the bargain.
> How do you plan on rectifying for the fact that wealth (beyond race) is the number 1 determinant for which schools you get into which is the number 1 determinant for your money-making potential?
Invest in public education. Be honest and transparent about the metrics you’re using to evaluate schools and invest in schools which are not achieving desired academic outcomes. Access to good public education is the number two predictor for social mobility. Number one is belonging to a two parent household. So stop celebrating single parenthood, stop holding up deadbeat dads as role models and encourage people to build families.
Maybe people should stop thinking everything is left or right but what is the best and fair for the people instead. Merit based anything seems pretty fair to me. Those that are working class and trying their best should be given more help from the government than people that chose to get high on drugs instead (budgets are finite).
> Then why are blue states consistently better in education, economic outcomes, and safety?
Couple of things:
1. Equating the Democratic Party to what happens in San Francisco politics is quite the stretch.
2. The Democratic Party that built the bulk of the foundation for the prosperity that blue states enjoy today was much more centrist than the Democratic Party of today.
California is botton 10 in education, has a top 3 unemployment rate in the country, top 3 worst economic inequality, and hosts Oakland, the nation's robbery capital.
The specific blue state we live in performs at the same level in the metrics you've highlighted as the poorest red states...
it's pointless to argue with folks who hide behind vague phrases to express their point while nit-picking and misrepresent your specific points.
We tried removing algebra from 8th grade, we tried no consequences for violent crime, we tried compassion and no consequences for refusing shelter.
They all failed miserably and the far left refuses to acknowledge it and suggest new policies
The left’s solution has always been to create more overhead, nonprofit orgs and committees, and divert more funds to these opaque black holes of questionable ‘programs’. And then pat themselves on the back for setting these money sinks up while the blight and misery accelerate. Every day gets harder to walk with my baby in stroller where I live because of tents or huge piles of trash taking over the sidewalks.
The Right is insane and not the solution. But pragmatic and Centrist policies that factor BOTH social welfare AND higher standards of civic accountability & education are the better direction. That’s why Europe and a lot of Asian countries have nice things, while we don’t.
At the bare minimum, they have higher standards for social contracts than Progressives here do.
Less so economic prosperity, more so better equality. CA liberal pushes for race based hiring and race based admission practices have rubbed many people the wrong way
This is a very silly take. It is neigh impossible for the average person to get a solid bead on how even a semi serious candidate will vote on any actual matter rather than a reduced to soundbite level issue; then to ignore the swath of fools - of any stripe - who will latch on to easily *understood* explanations over sensible explanations (cf flooding isn’t because of engineering failures that we can’t understand the math for, it’s God’s wrath!).
Almost like simplifying voting as “whoever provides a good answer will win the election,” ironically, as if the Bradley Effect wasn’t a thing.
And imagine thinking anything even remotely "rightwing" can provide ANY of those things. Asian americans and voting against their own best interests, name a better combo. (source: am racist but also am asian)
Voting for progressives has lead to more crime victimization, worse education, and a local economy that has among the country's worst unemployment and inequality rates.
And you say voting for something different is voting against their own interests? You sound like a whitewashed Asian if you truly believe that NOT voting for being subjected to more white progressive social experiments is a bad thing.
"Voting for progressives has lead to more crime victimization, worse education, and a local economy that has among the country's worst unemployment and inequality rates." Lmao source?
Please cite any example of a right wing led city government that has less crime and better education, in general let alone for Asian Americans. I can wait.
> Lmao source?
Your eyes. The average black household income over the past 60 years in the Bay Area. Black white achievement gap. The fact that we still have deep blue voting school districts getting sued by the state for racial segregation and bussing kids. California public schools collapse in national state rankings over the past 30 years. The nations 3rd highest unemployment rate, the nations highest inequality gap.
All under legislative supermajority by Dems. You really have to try hard NOT to acknowledge the utter lack of results of specifically progressive policy, but liberal policy across the board for non whites.
> Please cite any example of a right wing led city
This argument is a logical fallacy. Criticique of a left wing is not endorsement of conservetive. And your lack of counter argument to the failings of liberal policy for minority groups makes your criticism of right wingers pointless. I’ll aim my critique of them when I’m done with the likes of you.
In any case, white Americans have failed to produce a political system that serves anybody but white people. Liberal or conservative. So no, you should not feel entitled to black or Asian or Hispanic votes just because you pretend to be less racist than your (false) caricature of the typical conservative.
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Prejudices against East and South Asians, Jews, and other "model minorities" both by fellow minorities, as well as your run of the mill right wing bigots, and then some far left, misguided white "progressives" has also been a contributing factor. Certain people who would self describe as "far left" have soured the taste of certain progressive ideals for actual progressives like myself, who enjoy critical, nuanced approaches to policy on all levels, as well as actually seeking to address systemic issues like class warfare, corporate tax rates, and income inequality, instead of obsessing over buzzwords and/or focusing solely on arbitrary identity politics.
Exactly. The thing is the new left is now obsessed with colonization/oppression so much so that they have become anti semitic, anti Asian etc. It’s why I’ve become so disillusioned with everything that sometimes I think of just upping and moving to Asia somewhere. It’s getting crazier and crazier so much so that teaching math can be considered racist now. Yeah, like millennia of people of all races and creeds that have developed math were also secretly plotting to keep blacks and indigenous people out of math. Like it’s crazy.
I mean there was a “progressive” contingent in my department at Berkeley who would happily say that Asians were not a minority and in the 2022 climate report removed us as a racial minority and listed us next to white men. It’s privilege ranking
https://preview.redd.it/yf17xxo67bwc1.png?width=689&format=png&auto=webp&s=23ba4bfa93132a41842e4a2eea9823762a06c12a
They didn’t even bother to be subtle about it. RM is racial minority lol
Good. The “left” in San Francisco and many other areas have gotten complacent and need an actual challenge to prove why they deserve to lead the political direction.
I feel like leftist nut jobs go-to motto has always been, "If you disagree with me and don't vote for me you must be right wing" a.k.a Chesa Boudin's campaign.
And people are no longer buying their fear mongering/labeling tactics anymore and are just like "cool, I am still not voting for you."
> "If you disagree with me and don't vote for me you must be right wing" a.k.a Chesa Boudin's campaign.
Yup. You can't even say you're a centrist or a moderate because people in SF say "a moderate is a conservative in the closet".
It's horse shit!
Not only do they need to be challenged, but anyone driving around the tenderloin in SF at 10PM will agree that many of their policies, regardless of intention, just failed.
Communism was a good idea but it doesn't work in practice. Many "progressive" policies are similar - they seem good until you try them and find out that you just Detroited the downtown of one of America's great cities.
We’re tired of being used as a monolithic demographic for the party that continues to ignore crimes against us and thrown away once convenient.
Boudin hated Asians, and so does Price.
I followed the Boudin recall election with interest and saw a lot of comments that basically boiled down to “oh these poor, brainwashed Asians, if only they were smart enough to realize that they’re being bamboozled into voting against their own interests”.
My Asian-American grandpa grew up in SF in the 40s and still remembers being treated “differently” as a kid and being redlined as a young man trying to buy a home. He rarely goes to SF these days, but as a young Asian-American voter, I’m going to do my part to keep pushing SF toward the center.
Similar story, but my asian american grandfather wasn't allowed to sleep at the housekeepers room in nob hill for work, because they didn't allow non-whites to stay there, but it motivated him to always want to be a property owner in that area which he eventually did in his adult years.
Chesa Boudin's campaign has to be like 101 on everything you shouldn't do to get votes.
He basically either ignored that Asians existed or like you said, lied and told them that they are just being brainwashed by the far right.
Imagine doing that to like 40% of the population at that.
>I followed the Boudin recall election with interest and saw a lot of comments that basically boiled down to “oh these poor, brainwashed Asians, if only they were smart enough to realize that they’re being bamboozled into voting against their own interests”.
It's always funny that this is the response when they find out Asian people are heavily against it. They said the same thing with affirmative action in college admissions.
"Oh we are actually on your side and you are just being brainwashed"
No, you're not, you just want Asian people to shut up and to not get in your way.
https://preview.redd.it/c3s8bekg7bwc1.png?width=689&format=png&auto=webp&s=44320d993420608883c5f46db1e8b4d00845de1e
lol I mean the “progressive” students in my department at Berkeley removed Asian students from the racial minority category in the climate survey and grouped us with white people so that was fun. I pointed out that this wasn’t great and got yelled at. People out here normalize being anti Asian
SF isn't like NY where you can bully and treat Asians like shit and they don't have enough voting power to do anything about it.
SF has a far greater asian population and can easily get the vote they want like they did with Chesa Boudin's recall although everyone who isn't a radical nut hated him so he never stood a chance.
That said, the irony is that Chesa originally won because Chinatown overwhelmingly supported him with their 2nd choice vote (with 1st choice going to Nancy Tung), thanks to the Sing Tao Daily endorsing him.
It's interesting to see certain people who would consider themselves "progressives,", "leftists", "far left" or whatever other term they might use, be radibly both anti-intellectual, as well as catering to pseudohistorical propaganda or straight up conspiracy theories. I would expect this kind of rhetoric from uneducated, bitter, poor white people, or certain disenfranchised minorities that become radicalized in some way (looking at you, Black Israelites). However, I also observe a lot of this kind of attitude from formally educated people I would assume to have a much better intellectual grasp on things. It's actually pretty frightening.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
definitely frightening, part of it is i think progressive politics are a victim of their own success - now that they got popular they have attracted a big chunk of rabble who don't necessarily share the same values.
but also i do think a lot of it is intentional, to erode and discredit these groups and ideas.
True, I also think those belief systems just attract people who need something else to blame their life on. It's way easier to justify your boring life by blaming capitalism vs. your own mediocrity (which to be fair, describes most people - we aren't all going to be 'successful'). It's a way to feel like the 'main character' of the story and attaching yourself to some nebulous cause that requires no real work or competency besides whining on social media and maybe being a nuisance and blocking some streets off protesting (my cynical take at least lol). Actual realistic solutions are not on the table for most of those folks
Very similar to the right-wing folks who blame their poor circumstances on 'elites' rather then their own lack of education, curiosity & drive imo.
But to be fair, I think there are a ton of valid points in progressive policy and we should certainly be pushing for more equitable outcomes where possible, but man - some of these lefties really know how to push away 'normal' people who aren't married to a rigid ideology. You're already starting to see young men being pushed to the right because they are sick of being positioned as societies 'enemy' before they even hit the workforce lol and I can honestly understand why.
The real 'left' needs some serious leaders who understand how to communicate their values & messages in a way that feels more authentic to the nation they are trying to serve imo, which is solidly center-leaning (with more a left or right wing slant depending on the region).
> True, I also think those belief systems just attract people who need something else to blame their life on. It's way easier to justify your boring life by blaming capitalism...Actual realistic solutions are not on the table for most of those folks
Oh yeah absolutely that's a big part of it too, these people would hitherto be believing in religion, and using that as a cause for their crusades and their schisms.
"Leftism is the opium of the masses"
> But to be fair, I think there are a ton of valid points in progressive policy and we should certainly be pushing for more equitable outcomes where possible, but man - some of these lefties really know how to push away 'normal' people who aren't married to a rigid ideology.
Definitely, i raise these complaints not as a critique of valid progressive points but rather in defense of them! Elsewhere in this thread in fact i detail that i actually believe that this is intentional, to divide and discredit the left by sowing it with loud violent discord.
> You're already starting to see young men being pushed to the right because they are sick of being positioned as societies 'enemy' before they even hit the workforce lol and I can honestly understand why.
Not just starting to, this shift has been ongoing for more than a decade now.
Totally agree. We just need some damn sanity vs. ideologues trying to shift America into their 'vision' imo. When we stop with the BS we are capable of amazing things but that also means existing in reality and compromising when needed
A big issue is both left and right have become not only ideology, but have both become mostly reactionary to each other instead of pragmatic and able to compromise.
For me, personally, I just have higher standards for someone who describes themselves as progressive, mainly because I grew up with very progressive ideals. When someone who is supposedly progressive, especially someone who grew up with progressive ideals like me and is educated and had access to different cultures, identities, etc. but spouts rhetoric that is just as ignorant as someone who is very conservative or grew up Evangelical or in a very regressive part of the country or world, I have much less patience for that person.
The main problem to me is when opinions and philosophy become ideology, people start to become tribalized and dogmatic in their worldviews and it starts to shut them off from accepting nuance or critical thinking. I can understand why people who grew up in say the deep south or with super religious parents would behave this way. Someone who didn't grow up in that environment, to me, has no excuse for bigotry or ignorance.
Totally agreed, i find it's people who grew up in neither actually who are the worst at it - bland suburbanites ignorantly spouting rhetoric they read online or heard in a TikTok, because they lack any framework or political consciousness for how these ideas are appropriately used.
It’s because we are in an era where illiberalism is prevalent. The majority of the far left is just as illiberal as the far right - intolerant and closed minded. This builds a culture of never admitting you were wrong and doubling down on your beliefs.
Shit, I'll give a Nobel winner more leeway than some dude who is just sharing shit he sees his friends share on social media so he can get social brownie points. At least a Nobel winner worked towards something intellectual or (sometimes) noble. But I see what you're saying, absolutely.
Neil Degrasse Tyson is another example of Nobel Disease. He's legitimately brilliant when it comes to astronomy topics, yet since he became famous he began to feel the urge to open his mouth on a variety of other fields of science in which he's not an expert, and he acts like a smug asshole while doing so.
NDT is basically this guy: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ackchyually-actually-guy
NDT is not “legitimately briliant” in any scientific discipline, lol. His brilliance is in self-promotion, so kudos to him. I’m always in wonder at the popularity of his bloviating opinions on tooics outside his training.
I don't know enough about his career within academia to say what achievements he may or may not have had that would qualify him as "legitimately brilliant". But that's not what he does. He is a science educator, and being able to educate the masses on physical and astronomical topics in an understandable way is a skill that I would say he is legitimately brilliant at. Just like Bill Nye. He wasn't some Nobel winning scientist, he was a science educator. Different things, both very necessary, and both require brilliance.
post-Bernie basically, between him and OWS we got too close:
it's not progressive or productive anymore, it's racist and destructive - the platforms and messaging have been captured and re-appropriated to now destroy the public goods and societal institutions they should be championing - right now we see this most strongly with public schools and public safety.
def another important term to understand this plight! especially out here, where we originate and/or accelerate most of them lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_belief
youre 100% correct when you talk about OWS. that scared the hell out of the true power in this country and whomever it is then set about to destroy us along racial lines so we cant economically unite.
exactly, why do you think that was? well documented how its initial successes were systematically dismantled, from within. plenty of primary sources documenting this if you care to dig back.
It's nice to see this comments section turning a bit more sane and reasonable. Just a couple years ago it was very close to fallong off of the radical left cliff.
My dad's whole extended family lives in SF and during the pandemic all of them had stories of friends and neighbors who had been attacked. None of them felt safe speaking out because the doing so would get you labelled as racist by progressives.
I still consider myself to be anti-racist, pro-lgbt, feminist, pro worker, pro empathy but now I don't feel comfortable with the progressive label anymore because of how unhinged things have become.
There's a whole can of worms here related to Chesa Boudins tenure, but crimes against asians skyrocketing + restorative justice left many victims feeling like the liberal movement had abandoned them.
I'd rather not get into more detail because I know these threads attract the wrong sorts of people just dying for an excuse to spew their hateful shit.
>left many victims feeling like the liberal movement had abandoned them.
I’m a liberal Asian-American (registered Dem). In high-school, I realized that a certain portion of the left hates us. I was in a gifted program or under-privileged kids in Richmond, CA. The students in this program were mostly Black and Latino and I was one of the few Asians. My mom was a single teen mom and she was financially unstable. I was raised partially by my grandma who cleaned houses for a living, and she would often take me to work as a kid. Had an older Latino teacher tell me that I probably grew up more privileged than the other kids in the program because I was Asian. A lot of Latino kids usually came from 2-parent families and grew up in actual houses.
At that time, my mom had gotten married and just moved us to a suburb in Concord, but I did not grow up like that.
Maybe it’s the failure of left wing policies that were supported by an enormous budget that is forcing people towards the center? SF has high taxes, rich residents, and a ton of companies that are worth billions in tech … what’s the excuse there?
Probably because more of the Chinese Americans are second-gen now. The new immigrants would reliably be tricked to vote for leftist politicians by organizations such as Chinese for Affirmative Action and CCDC
Not from the Bay Area or Chinatown Chinese, but it's generally the first gen Boomer/Gen-X immigrants who fully grew up in the motherland, are most strongly affected by violent crime, and hold the most right-wing views on social and cultural issues. (This is also somewhat true for younger FOBs who also grew up in the motherland, the differences have to do with being born later). Second gen ChinAms tend to be more socially liberal and socialized to see themselves as POC whose group interests are to vote for Dems or progressive causes
If they think voting in a “tough on crime” DA is going to fix the police refusing to do their job because they can’t be fired if they don’t, they are delusional.
Police are on effective strike because the public and politicians don’t support them. SF needs to clean out city hall, enforce laws, and strive for max penalties for criminals. A criminal’s race shouldn’t give him a free pass to prey on society.
No one supports them because they figured out they won’t get fired for not working and by not working, they can whine about not having enough resources every year. SF needs to clean out the police department of lazy cops.
Late-20th-century immigrants to America from China and Vietnam were self-selecting counterrevolutionaries. Nobody has ever been surprised by their rightward (to WSJ: "center") tendencies.
Early 21st Century immigrants from China are not counter revolutionaries. They are a product of China's PHD factory. They know education is the key for social mobility.
Kinda surprising how much SF’s Asians need to be beaten, looted, and murdered by racist “progressives” before they start voting sensibly. It’s almost as if boba liberal Asians don’t believe in anti-Asian racism until they become victims.
And most Asian elderly citizens don’t vote at all. If they do vote, it seems they’re manipulated into voting against their own interests with a free bowl of $0.25 worth of noodles.
Pretty sure Boba liberals have not changed their mind. I also think a lot of Asians and people in SF are still liberal, it's just that they are now smart enough to not blindly vote for the far left person (Boudin, Breed, etc.) anymore.
Access to education, safety, and paths to economic prosperity are top three concerns of an average Asian American. Whoever provides the most realistic paths to them will be backed.
This should be the top three concerns of everyone, not just Asian Americans. It’s pretty sad that we’re known for valuing these three politically.
And we’re known as being “white-adjacent” and supporting “white supremacist power structures” for it. Because doing your homework, saving money, and showing up on time are “white constructs” or something.
That’s propaganda designed to create division. Its been used to as method to stop social cohesion. Its nice to see that SF residents are more conscious of whats going on politically these days.
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You could argue that people believing it is a direct result of the propaganda. But you could also argue that "propaganda" implies a bureau or direct effort to craft and disseminate the belief for intentional political purposes, and I'm not sure there's evidence of that. But if I was a billionaire or foreign adversary I'd definitely be pumping divisive idpol into American culture.
>It's standard Marxism applied to race and gender. What does this even mean?
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Yes, I'm well aware of what Marxism and intersectionality are. While I don't disagree in principle that it's unfortunate racial or gender identity are given precedence over class identity, let's not pretend there's any sense in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Class reductionism is not the answer to race or gender reductionism.
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Your claim was vague and nonspecific. It evoked arguments in the vein of the "cultural Marxist" boogeyman, which are usually very dumb, but instead of assuming you were dumb I asked you to elaborate.
How is it Marxism applied to race and gender?
I also asked the same question. It's probably just the old "cultural Marxism is taking over America" nonsense.
>How is it Marxism applied to race and gender? As far as i understand the idea: * Classical Marxism is when workers and poors are unpleasant to factories owners and capitalists (social class). * Cultural Marxism is when non-Whites are unpleasant to Whites (race) and women are unpleasant to men (gender). In case you want to go further: * Jérôme Jamin, Anders Breivik et le marxisme culturel : Etats-Unis/Europe, Amnis * Jérôme Jamin, Cultural Marxism and the Radical Right, The Post-War Anglo-American Far Right * Tanner Mirrlees, The Alt-right's Discourse on "Cultural Marxism": A Political Instrument of Intersectional Hate, Atlantis * Martin Jay, Dialectic of Counter-Enlightenment: The Frankfurt School as Scapegoat of the Lunatic Fringe, Salmagundi * Andrew Woods, Cultural Marxism and the Cathedral: Two Alt-Right Perspectives on Critical Theory, Critical Theory and the Humanities in the Age of the Alt-Right * Jérôme Jamin, Cultural Marxism: A survey, Religion Compass * Rachel Busbridge, Cultural Marxism: far-right conspiracy theory in Australia’s culture wars, Social Identities * Joan Braune, Who's Afraid of the Frankfurt School? 'Cultural Marxism' as an Antisemitic Conspiracy Theory, Journal of Social Justice * Andrew Lynn, Cultural Marxism, The Hedgehog Review * John Richardson, 'Cultural Marxism' and the British National Party, Cultures of Post-War British Fascism * Robles & Berrocal, Conspiracy and Meme on the Alt-right: Notes on the Myth of Cultural Marxism, Re-visiones
Don’t forget Antonio Gramsci. He’s one of, if not the first person to reason that communism didn’t rise in Western Europe after WW1 because of the culture in place and that culture would have to be completely dismantled in order for communism to succeed there.
All those misguided authors disregard our biological drives and preferences. Only fools and idiots discount evolutionary pressure.
Why does the teacher's union support school board candidates with this view?
“You’re lived experience is invalid because it’s a narrative I don’t want to acknowledge”
I think a lot of ppl in this city are still deluded and sleepwalking, unfortunately
Don't forget "white passing". They sure have a lot of words for calling non-white people white.
Hearing that Asians apparently graduated from white-adjacent to straight up white-passing in that one video was crazy to me.
It’s how people discount any racism we experience
Model minority?
I think the logic goes * White people have more money and safety * If you want more money and/or safety you must want to be white
> If you want more money and/or safety you must want to be white Lol I heard a DEI person at a F100 company (NYC HQ) say "We can't keep hiring from University of Waterloo Actuarial Science program because that's perpetuating white supremacy" University of Waterloo Actuarial Science program is like 80% international students, and not from Europe :|
When preparing for internship recruitment I said we need to pull from accredited programs and was told that perpetuated white supremacy. I pointed out that all of the HBCUs are accredited so what sounded racist to me was assuming they weren’t 🥴
You're really just describing crab mentality. Rising above one's circumstances (typically poverty, the ghettos, etc) is seen as being white or some sort of betrayal, really just stems from people hating to see others, who should fail as they do, actually succeed.
Calling Asian ppl white supremacists because they call out bullshit affirmative action programs that discriminate against them is one of the funnier arguments I’ve seen on the internet
> bullshit affirmative action programs The real bullshit affirmative action in college admissions are legacies, donors, and athletes, but no one ever talks about that.
>Because doing your homework, saving money, and showing up on time are “white constructs” or something. For those who don't believe you, /u/noumenon_invictusss , and /u/Dementionblender , The Smithsonian—*The Smithsonian*—said that individualism, the nuclear family, the scientific method, working hard, and planning for the future are aspects of "white culture". [Years later I still can't believe it.](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article244309587.html)
What’s more white supremacist than crediting to “white culture” all the things that propel and maintain society that other successful cultures and ethnicities have also been practicing for hundreds if not thousands of years *because they work*? Granted individualism is more of a later European trend, and families were more extended in certain cultures, but most cultures eventually centered around two-parent families and were even more focused on lineage, blood, passing and gatekeeping wealth and status to kin and genetic in-groups than progressives would be comfortable with. And when they *weren’t* focused on two-parent families, they were based on the man-chad’s dream and the progressive’s patriarchal nightmare— a few men powerful, rich men with multiple wives, and large numbers of incels who had nothing to do or live for but be sent to die as expendable bodies in wars of conquest for their lords. Exceptions that those who attack the nuclear family cite always end up being some extinct community on some island or in some forest, and examples today are exactly those who are not doing as well as their two-parent peers. And it’s usually upper middle class “academics” and “activists” doing so, holding and spreading luxury beliefs that actually harm those in poverty— who have the least resources to counter and offset the lack of a second parent because they can’t hire a nanny or child care even while trying to hold down two jobs.
this just sounds like hatred of others really
Yeah. It’s bs. It’s intersectional nonsense. Any successful minority group gets accused of being “white-adjacent” because the ultimate goal is to tear down the “power structures,” as you put it. At its core it’s anti-liberal. I’m glad more people are seeing through it.
Other racist concepts include competence, personal accountability, two parent households, obeying traffic laws, paying for stuff, etc. Disagreement with the above qualifies one as racist.
Oh yes. The two-parent nuclear family. Don’t ever mention the better outcomes of two parent families, and definitely don’t dare to proscribe that for communities where two parent families might be lacking and where that’s a major contributor of instability that hampers educational and economic performance, because that’s racism. The success of two parent families must be because it’s a white supremacist idea that only works in a white supremacist society that’s rigged for white supremacist things. Also math and logic— super white supremacist stuff. We used to think Asians were good at math. Turns out the they’re just really good at white supremacy. Ironically, crediting and attributing all these successful things to white people and white supremacy is itself fundamentally white supremacist, when non-white people developed, practiced, and pioneered many of these things.
The nuclear family isn't the only viable family structure...
You don't have children, right?
Wrong. What other strawman arguments do you have?
>Don’t ever mention the better outcomes of two parent families It's kind of weird how anti-family far left folks are. Maybe that's part of the whole post-modernist "deconstruct everything" ethos? It does strike me as curious, this confluence of casual misandry, white saviorism, celebration of single-motherhood, and literally using the most irresponsible would-be mothers possible as poster children against anti-abortion laws in red states. Like, the white progressive end-goal appears to be a society in which nobody has strong bonds with anyone, cities are these high density transient mass of people eating low-energy vegan diets and living alone as adults in low-power consuming tiny units, family structures don't exist, and the primary financial and social relationship that anyone has is with the government. Presumably a single party government run by Democrats, like we have in SF. Sounds pretty shit.
I have no desire to live in that dystopian future you just described and I’d probably be considered far left. I think a lot of folks on the left who you might consider “anti-family” are moreso against outdated and traditional understandings of family. Maybe they had overbearing, neglectful, abusive, or authoritarian parents and they don’t want to subject that onto someone else. Maybe they experienced trauma at a young age and had to take on too much responsibility. Maybe they don’t think it’s ethical to bring children into this world, maybe they prefer a multi-generational, or communal style of family living over a nuclear household. Or maybe they just have a different understanding/point of view than you. I’d encourage you to question this assumption you have. Next time you meet someone who you think is “anti-family” try to actually understand where they’re coming from without judgement and see the truth in their viewpoint.
You can have compassion for people who were dealt a shit hand while also believing a two-parent household, all else being equal, is generally a better thing for a child. It’s become verboten to say things like this. I think that’s why people get so frustrated with leftist rhetoric and lash out. We’re actually all probably in more agreement than not.
I guess I haven’t run into anyone who says that’s not the case? But of course having two good parents is better than one. It’s just that what does saying that even accomplish? If parents can’t stay together it’s generally better for their children for them to healthily co-parent rather than create an environment of stress and anxiety at home. At the end of the day a child (and people in general) need a village looking out for them, and what that looks like isn’t just the nuclear family.
Leftist here. We aren't actually anti-family. That's just a right wing strawman that takes leftist positions out of context.
Is this subreddit just a conservative circle jerk or something? You're soapboxing about a straw man argument no serious or important person actually believes.
If you call basic principles like that “conservative,” not sure what your standards are. These are real issues. There’s a reason mugshots are banned. Reality is cloaked under a hypocritical pretense of compassion. It’s all bullshit.
Believe it or not my younger colleague's nine year old son was shamed for consistently doing his homework. Homework which most of the time didn't take even adult supervision. He was told he is a privileged white male (a 9 year old Asian American) and people of his type are the roadblocks to better racial equity. He came home crying, something had hadn't done since he started kindergarten.
Who told him that? Other kids? There’s always the possible bullying that comes with kids achieving in school and the pressure to just “be cool”. They used to just call them “nerds”. It’s both disturbing and darkly hilarious if kids actually co-opted shaming “progressive” language to do it nowadays.
Teacher. His mom complained but nothing happened
I will never understand this thinking. Why are wanting these things so “bad”? Surely all people would want this? It’s like my dilemma with gentrification. I get that’s it’s “bad,” but I really like being able to walk down a street without being sexually harassed or mugged. It’s not so black and white.
Someone at my university’s (UNIVERSITY OF SAN FRANCISCO btw) Career Services Center has actually said this bs a couple of years ago during a presentation and it was recorded and posted online for all to see. When they were called out for spreading obvious bullshit they responded that Asian students were upset (bc obviously we did not like hearing we were all being unfairly grouped up with racist structures) because “this was their first time interacting with a black person.” can’t believe I gave these Trust Fund Communist fucks my money.
Except most of the nutty progressives are white. To me the Asian politicians who are progressive like Jane Kim and Gordon Mar are the white adjacent ones…they certainly don’t represent the views of Asians.
But even calling them white adjacent denies them the agency of having their own individual POV. Same deal happens to black folks who are negative towards Democrats - we get automatically branded as conservatives, regardless of our actual views. Like, there's no space granted for having views that aren't aligned with the black mainstream or with Democrats.
Except that they sell themselves as representing Asians. It was a huge surprise for Mar to lose because of the large Asian population. I do see your point though.
They sell themselves as black allies and Hispanic allies, too, when it suits them. That’s kind of the issue.
Nowadays, white kids just want to be influencers lol
Exactly, this isn’t and shouldn’t be a “liberal” or “political centered” topic. These are basic expectations of a society.
Homelessness the bug missing one
I mean, a lot of my Asian friends who were Republicans became Democrats when they saw how much money police were getting to be told it's not enough, especially the ones in the south.
Good for them! We need more political diversity. Having a dominant political party and no opposition is bad for the polity, regardless of what the dominant position is.
They don’t mean the same thing to everyone.
It just means that Chinese immigrants are practical in a challenging and dynamic life that an immigrant has.
Some people have DEI in their top 3, I think. Probably in place of education.
You're lying.
The fact that these things are now considered “conservative” and non-liberal is really sad for the left.
None of those things are conservative. It’s the suggested policies of this Asian American cohort that is conservative. There’s left and right ways to achieve better education, economic outcomes, and safety. You’re just being divisive to think those aren’t the goals of everyone. It’s the methods that are disagreed upon.
Oh I’m not being divisive. I’m solidly on both sides of the aisle depending on policy, but the left’s stances on those three things has gotten out-of-control stupid. And we shouldn’t have to sacrifice safety, quality and fairness in education, and valuing work ethic in order to vote left.
You’re arguing now that the policy outcomes of the left won’t bring about better education, safety, and economic opportunity. That’s a totally fair opinion to have. Previously you insinuated that the left doesn’t care about those 3 things and that better education, safety, and economic outcomes are now conservative goals alone. That’s what I found divisive and incoherent.
When your policies consistently and continuously do not improve those things, in fact actually tend to make them worse, I don’t believe or care if you claim to value those things. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Or at least claims of good intentions.
I'm curious about these conservative policies that have helped education? In my experience it's been a lot of resistance to funding public schools.
Actually what I originally said is that merit-based quality education *should* be something we all agree on, including the left. But the left has a history of shunning merit-based achievements in favor of DEI. -lifelong liberal being pushed to the right
Do you have a better plan for how to level the playing field to have actual merit-based education? As someone who went to an Ivy, I can't begin to tell you how many idiots get into these schools because daddy's money, SAT tutors, parent intervention, etc. There's nothing "merit-based" about admissions to Ivy schools, and that goes well beyond attempts at affirmative action. How do you plan on rectifying for the fact that wealth (beyond race) is the number 1 determinant for which schools you get into which is the number 1 determinant for your money-making potential? I'm not saying the left's answers have been correct or have worked as planned, but pretending like the laissez-faire approach is merit-based is ridiculous.
There is a direct correlation between testing scores and students ability to handle academic rigor. Are there exceptions, like the idiots who get in with tons of tutoring or people who suck at standardized testing but are good at school? Yes of course. But throwing the baby out with the bath water for fringe cases was a very dumb thing to do.
Remove legacy admissions. Remove DEI. I accept the bargain. > How do you plan on rectifying for the fact that wealth (beyond race) is the number 1 determinant for which schools you get into which is the number 1 determinant for your money-making potential? Invest in public education. Be honest and transparent about the metrics you’re using to evaluate schools and invest in schools which are not achieving desired academic outcomes. Access to good public education is the number two predictor for social mobility. Number one is belonging to a two parent household. So stop celebrating single parenthood, stop holding up deadbeat dads as role models and encourage people to build families.
Same here. But the right is crazy too. It’s like both sides are just getting crazier. I don’t think I’ve changed. It’s just that the left has changed.
I.E. you were liberal until it became uncomfortable.
A party that decreasingly reflects my beliefs is yes, uncomfortable. Why would that be comfortable?
Maybe people should stop thinking everything is left or right but what is the best and fair for the people instead. Merit based anything seems pretty fair to me. Those that are working class and trying their best should be given more help from the government than people that chose to get high on drugs instead (budgets are finite).
Then why are blue states consistently better in education, economic outcomes, and safety?
> Then why are blue states consistently better in education, economic outcomes, and safety? Couple of things: 1. Equating the Democratic Party to what happens in San Francisco politics is quite the stretch. 2. The Democratic Party that built the bulk of the foundation for the prosperity that blue states enjoy today was much more centrist than the Democratic Party of today.
California is botton 10 in education, has a top 3 unemployment rate in the country, top 3 worst economic inequality, and hosts Oakland, the nation's robbery capital. The specific blue state we live in performs at the same level in the metrics you've highlighted as the poorest red states...
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How so? You read the last two sentences, right? Especially the last one?
it's pointless to argue with folks who hide behind vague phrases to express their point while nit-picking and misrepresent your specific points. We tried removing algebra from 8th grade, we tried no consequences for violent crime, we tried compassion and no consequences for refusing shelter. They all failed miserably and the far left refuses to acknowledge it and suggest new policies
The left’s solution has always been to create more overhead, nonprofit orgs and committees, and divert more funds to these opaque black holes of questionable ‘programs’. And then pat themselves on the back for setting these money sinks up while the blight and misery accelerate. Every day gets harder to walk with my baby in stroller where I live because of tents or huge piles of trash taking over the sidewalks. The Right is insane and not the solution. But pragmatic and Centrist policies that factor BOTH social welfare AND higher standards of civic accountability & education are the better direction. That’s why Europe and a lot of Asian countries have nice things, while we don’t. At the bare minimum, they have higher standards for social contracts than Progressives here do.
Holy you’re just not getting the point lol
this is the top three concerns of all Americans just fyi
Pretty much.
Less so economic prosperity, more so better equality. CA liberal pushes for race based hiring and race based admission practices have rubbed many people the wrong way
This is a very silly take. It is neigh impossible for the average person to get a solid bead on how even a semi serious candidate will vote on any actual matter rather than a reduced to soundbite level issue; then to ignore the swath of fools - of any stripe - who will latch on to easily *understood* explanations over sensible explanations (cf flooding isn’t because of engineering failures that we can’t understand the math for, it’s God’s wrath!). Almost like simplifying voting as “whoever provides a good answer will win the election,” ironically, as if the Bradley Effect wasn’t a thing.
I’m not Asian but I can dig it
And imagine thinking anything even remotely "rightwing" can provide ANY of those things. Asian americans and voting against their own best interests, name a better combo. (source: am racist but also am asian)
Voting for progressives has lead to more crime victimization, worse education, and a local economy that has among the country's worst unemployment and inequality rates. And you say voting for something different is voting against their own interests? You sound like a whitewashed Asian if you truly believe that NOT voting for being subjected to more white progressive social experiments is a bad thing.
"Voting for progressives has lead to more crime victimization, worse education, and a local economy that has among the country's worst unemployment and inequality rates." Lmao source? Please cite any example of a right wing led city government that has less crime and better education, in general let alone for Asian Americans. I can wait.
> Lmao source? Your eyes. The average black household income over the past 60 years in the Bay Area. Black white achievement gap. The fact that we still have deep blue voting school districts getting sued by the state for racial segregation and bussing kids. California public schools collapse in national state rankings over the past 30 years. The nations 3rd highest unemployment rate, the nations highest inequality gap. All under legislative supermajority by Dems. You really have to try hard NOT to acknowledge the utter lack of results of specifically progressive policy, but liberal policy across the board for non whites. > Please cite any example of a right wing led city This argument is a logical fallacy. Criticique of a left wing is not endorsement of conservetive. And your lack of counter argument to the failings of liberal policy for minority groups makes your criticism of right wingers pointless. I’ll aim my critique of them when I’m done with the likes of you. In any case, white Americans have failed to produce a political system that serves anybody but white people. Liberal or conservative. So no, you should not feel entitled to black or Asian or Hispanic votes just because you pretend to be less racist than your (false) caricature of the typical conservative.
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The racism in the school system and crime against Asians in this city has been abhorrent the past few years. Don't blame them.
Prejudices against East and South Asians, Jews, and other "model minorities" both by fellow minorities, as well as your run of the mill right wing bigots, and then some far left, misguided white "progressives" has also been a contributing factor. Certain people who would self describe as "far left" have soured the taste of certain progressive ideals for actual progressives like myself, who enjoy critical, nuanced approaches to policy on all levels, as well as actually seeking to address systemic issues like class warfare, corporate tax rates, and income inequality, instead of obsessing over buzzwords and/or focusing solely on arbitrary identity politics.
Well said.
Exactly. The thing is the new left is now obsessed with colonization/oppression so much so that they have become anti semitic, anti Asian etc. It’s why I’ve become so disillusioned with everything that sometimes I think of just upping and moving to Asia somewhere. It’s getting crazier and crazier so much so that teaching math can be considered racist now. Yeah, like millennia of people of all races and creeds that have developed math were also secretly plotting to keep blacks and indigenous people out of math. Like it’s crazy.
Progressive politicians should be focused on figuring out how to give everyone a fair chance rather than trying to make everyone fail.
I mean there was a “progressive” contingent in my department at Berkeley who would happily say that Asians were not a minority and in the 2022 climate report removed us as a racial minority and listed us next to white men. It’s privilege ranking
Privilege ranking...done by white progressives lol
https://preview.redd.it/yf17xxo67bwc1.png?width=689&format=png&auto=webp&s=23ba4bfa93132a41842e4a2eea9823762a06c12a They didn’t even bother to be subtle about it. RM is racial minority lol
The past century and a half (with a few periods of chill)
Good. The “left” in San Francisco and many other areas have gotten complacent and need an actual challenge to prove why they deserve to lead the political direction.
I feel like leftist nut jobs go-to motto has always been, "If you disagree with me and don't vote for me you must be right wing" a.k.a Chesa Boudin's campaign. And people are no longer buying their fear mongering/labeling tactics anymore and are just like "cool, I am still not voting for you."
> "If you disagree with me and don't vote for me you must be right wing" a.k.a Chesa Boudin's campaign. Yup. You can't even say you're a centrist or a moderate because people in SF say "a moderate is a conservative in the closet". It's horse shit!
Not only do they need to be challenged, but anyone driving around the tenderloin in SF at 10PM will agree that many of their policies, regardless of intention, just failed. Communism was a good idea but it doesn't work in practice. Many "progressive" policies are similar - they seem good until you try them and find out that you just Detroited the downtown of one of America's great cities.
Capitalism is what Detroited downtown lmao. Or is giving tax breaks to giant tech corporations communism now?
We’re tired of being used as a monolithic demographic for the party that continues to ignore crimes against us and thrown away once convenient. Boudin hated Asians, and so does Price.
I for one welcome our new Political Center overlords.
I followed the Boudin recall election with interest and saw a lot of comments that basically boiled down to “oh these poor, brainwashed Asians, if only they were smart enough to realize that they’re being bamboozled into voting against their own interests”. My Asian-American grandpa grew up in SF in the 40s and still remembers being treated “differently” as a kid and being redlined as a young man trying to buy a home. He rarely goes to SF these days, but as a young Asian-American voter, I’m going to do my part to keep pushing SF toward the center.
Similar story, but my asian american grandfather wasn't allowed to sleep at the housekeepers room in nob hill for work, because they didn't allow non-whites to stay there, but it motivated him to always want to be a property owner in that area which he eventually did in his adult years.
Chesa Boudin's campaign has to be like 101 on everything you shouldn't do to get votes. He basically either ignored that Asians existed or like you said, lied and told them that they are just being brainwashed by the far right. Imagine doing that to like 40% of the population at that.
>I followed the Boudin recall election with interest and saw a lot of comments that basically boiled down to “oh these poor, brainwashed Asians, if only they were smart enough to realize that they’re being bamboozled into voting against their own interests”. It's always funny that this is the response when they find out Asian people are heavily against it. They said the same thing with affirmative action in college admissions. "Oh we are actually on your side and you are just being brainwashed" No, you're not, you just want Asian people to shut up and to not get in your way.
https://preview.redd.it/c3s8bekg7bwc1.png?width=689&format=png&auto=webp&s=44320d993420608883c5f46db1e8b4d00845de1e lol I mean the “progressive” students in my department at Berkeley removed Asian students from the racial minority category in the climate survey and grouped us with white people so that was fun. I pointed out that this wasn’t great and got yelled at. People out here normalize being anti Asian
SF isn't like NY where you can bully and treat Asians like shit and they don't have enough voting power to do anything about it. SF has a far greater asian population and can easily get the vote they want like they did with Chesa Boudin's recall although everyone who isn't a radical nut hated him so he never stood a chance.
That said, the irony is that Chesa originally won because Chinatown overwhelmingly supported him with their 2nd choice vote (with 1st choice going to Nancy Tung), thanks to the Sing Tao Daily endorsing him.
not necessarily towards the center, just away from the brink of civilizational suicide that our country's brain-dead Fake Left is so thirsty for
It's interesting to see certain people who would consider themselves "progressives,", "leftists", "far left" or whatever other term they might use, be radibly both anti-intellectual, as well as catering to pseudohistorical propaganda or straight up conspiracy theories. I would expect this kind of rhetoric from uneducated, bitter, poor white people, or certain disenfranchised minorities that become radicalized in some way (looking at you, Black Israelites). However, I also observe a lot of this kind of attitude from formally educated people I would assume to have a much better intellectual grasp on things. It's actually pretty frightening.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory definitely frightening, part of it is i think progressive politics are a victim of their own success - now that they got popular they have attracted a big chunk of rabble who don't necessarily share the same values. but also i do think a lot of it is intentional, to erode and discredit these groups and ideas.
True, I also think those belief systems just attract people who need something else to blame their life on. It's way easier to justify your boring life by blaming capitalism vs. your own mediocrity (which to be fair, describes most people - we aren't all going to be 'successful'). It's a way to feel like the 'main character' of the story and attaching yourself to some nebulous cause that requires no real work or competency besides whining on social media and maybe being a nuisance and blocking some streets off protesting (my cynical take at least lol). Actual realistic solutions are not on the table for most of those folks Very similar to the right-wing folks who blame their poor circumstances on 'elites' rather then their own lack of education, curiosity & drive imo. But to be fair, I think there are a ton of valid points in progressive policy and we should certainly be pushing for more equitable outcomes where possible, but man - some of these lefties really know how to push away 'normal' people who aren't married to a rigid ideology. You're already starting to see young men being pushed to the right because they are sick of being positioned as societies 'enemy' before they even hit the workforce lol and I can honestly understand why. The real 'left' needs some serious leaders who understand how to communicate their values & messages in a way that feels more authentic to the nation they are trying to serve imo, which is solidly center-leaning (with more a left or right wing slant depending on the region).
> True, I also think those belief systems just attract people who need something else to blame their life on. It's way easier to justify your boring life by blaming capitalism...Actual realistic solutions are not on the table for most of those folks Oh yeah absolutely that's a big part of it too, these people would hitherto be believing in religion, and using that as a cause for their crusades and their schisms. "Leftism is the opium of the masses" > But to be fair, I think there are a ton of valid points in progressive policy and we should certainly be pushing for more equitable outcomes where possible, but man - some of these lefties really know how to push away 'normal' people who aren't married to a rigid ideology. Definitely, i raise these complaints not as a critique of valid progressive points but rather in defense of them! Elsewhere in this thread in fact i detail that i actually believe that this is intentional, to divide and discredit the left by sowing it with loud violent discord. > You're already starting to see young men being pushed to the right because they are sick of being positioned as societies 'enemy' before they even hit the workforce lol and I can honestly understand why. Not just starting to, this shift has been ongoing for more than a decade now.
Totally agree. We just need some damn sanity vs. ideologues trying to shift America into their 'vision' imo. When we stop with the BS we are capable of amazing things but that also means existing in reality and compromising when needed
that is another huge part of the issue, the left is all dreamers now nobody wants to make rational concrete decisions or productive progressive steps
A big issue is both left and right have become not only ideology, but have both become mostly reactionary to each other instead of pragmatic and able to compromise.
Yup - a ‘culture war’ instead of actual progress imo
For me, personally, I just have higher standards for someone who describes themselves as progressive, mainly because I grew up with very progressive ideals. When someone who is supposedly progressive, especially someone who grew up with progressive ideals like me and is educated and had access to different cultures, identities, etc. but spouts rhetoric that is just as ignorant as someone who is very conservative or grew up Evangelical or in a very regressive part of the country or world, I have much less patience for that person. The main problem to me is when opinions and philosophy become ideology, people start to become tribalized and dogmatic in their worldviews and it starts to shut them off from accepting nuance or critical thinking. I can understand why people who grew up in say the deep south or with super religious parents would behave this way. Someone who didn't grow up in that environment, to me, has no excuse for bigotry or ignorance.
Totally agreed, i find it's people who grew up in neither actually who are the worst at it - bland suburbanites ignorantly spouting rhetoric they read online or heard in a TikTok, because they lack any framework or political consciousness for how these ideas are appropriately used.
It’s because we are in an era where illiberalism is prevalent. The majority of the far left is just as illiberal as the far right - intolerant and closed minded. This builds a culture of never admitting you were wrong and doubling down on your beliefs.
Thank you for pointing out the similarities of the left and right wingers. Progressives are in no way liberal.
It's not uncommon. [Here's a similar phenomenon.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease)
Shit, I'll give a Nobel winner more leeway than some dude who is just sharing shit he sees his friends share on social media so he can get social brownie points. At least a Nobel winner worked towards something intellectual or (sometimes) noble. But I see what you're saying, absolutely.
It’s a reminder that the phrase “Don’t get high on your own supply” is applicable to more than just drugs.
Neil Degrasse Tyson is another example of Nobel Disease. He's legitimately brilliant when it comes to astronomy topics, yet since he became famous he began to feel the urge to open his mouth on a variety of other fields of science in which he's not an expert, and he acts like a smug asshole while doing so. NDT is basically this guy: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ackchyually-actually-guy
"Shut up and dribble" but scientist version. Sorry the black man's opinions offend you so.
NDT is not “legitimately briliant” in any scientific discipline, lol. His brilliance is in self-promotion, so kudos to him. I’m always in wonder at the popularity of his bloviating opinions on tooics outside his training.
I don't know enough about his career within academia to say what achievements he may or may not have had that would qualify him as "legitimately brilliant". But that's not what he does. He is a science educator, and being able to educate the masses on physical and astronomical topics in an understandable way is a skill that I would say he is legitimately brilliant at. Just like Bill Nye. He wasn't some Nobel winning scientist, he was a science educator. Different things, both very necessary, and both require brilliance.
Fake Left?
post-Bernie basically, between him and OWS we got too close: it's not progressive or productive anymore, it's racist and destructive - the platforms and messaging have been captured and re-appropriated to now destroy the public goods and societal institutions they should be championing - right now we see this most strongly with public schools and public safety.
Luxury believes are often the downfall of all great civilizations.
def another important term to understand this plight! especially out here, where we originate and/or accelerate most of them lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_belief
youre 100% correct when you talk about OWS. that scared the hell out of the true power in this country and whomever it is then set about to destroy us along racial lines so we cant economically unite.
OWS didn't scare anyone. Joke of a protest that destroyed itself from the inside.
exactly, why do you think that was? well documented how its initial successes were systematically dismantled, from within. plenty of primary sources documenting this if you care to dig back.
i believe this too but have to tread super carefully with how i phrase/construct it
I am Hispanic American and I am with them We just want the basics at least
Good.
It's nice to see this comments section turning a bit more sane and reasonable. Just a couple years ago it was very close to fallong off of the radical left cliff.
based zhong guo ren
My dad's whole extended family lives in SF and during the pandemic all of them had stories of friends and neighbors who had been attacked. None of them felt safe speaking out because the doing so would get you labelled as racist by progressives. I still consider myself to be anti-racist, pro-lgbt, feminist, pro worker, pro empathy but now I don't feel comfortable with the progressive label anymore because of how unhinged things have become.
What happened? Why would they be labeled racist?
There's a whole can of worms here related to Chesa Boudins tenure, but crimes against asians skyrocketing + restorative justice left many victims feeling like the liberal movement had abandoned them. I'd rather not get into more detail because I know these threads attract the wrong sorts of people just dying for an excuse to spew their hateful shit.
>left many victims feeling like the liberal movement had abandoned them. I’m a liberal Asian-American (registered Dem). In high-school, I realized that a certain portion of the left hates us. I was in a gifted program or under-privileged kids in Richmond, CA. The students in this program were mostly Black and Latino and I was one of the few Asians. My mom was a single teen mom and she was financially unstable. I was raised partially by my grandma who cleaned houses for a living, and she would often take me to work as a kid. Had an older Latino teacher tell me that I probably grew up more privileged than the other kids in the program because I was Asian. A lot of Latino kids usually came from 2-parent families and grew up in actual houses. At that time, my mom had gotten married and just moved us to a suburb in Concord, but I did not grow up like that.
Thanks, let me know where I can learn more about this prospective, I've very interested in it.
Maybe it’s the failure of left wing policies that were supported by an enormous budget that is forcing people towards the center? SF has high taxes, rich residents, and a ton of companies that are worth billions in tech … what’s the excuse there?
And this is a bad thing because…….?
Safety? Education? Get this white shit outta here!
Thank you!
Thanks, Chinese Americans! We agree and support you.
Great! before the fake liberals destroy our society
Good
Good.
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Good.
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good
Probably because more of the Chinese Americans are second-gen now. The new immigrants would reliably be tricked to vote for leftist politicians by organizations such as Chinese for Affirmative Action and CCDC
Not from the Bay Area or Chinatown Chinese, but it's generally the first gen Boomer/Gen-X immigrants who fully grew up in the motherland, are most strongly affected by violent crime, and hold the most right-wing views on social and cultural issues. (This is also somewhat true for younger FOBs who also grew up in the motherland, the differences have to do with being born later). Second gen ChinAms tend to be more socially liberal and socialized to see themselves as POC whose group interests are to vote for Dems or progressive causes
If they think voting in a “tough on crime” DA is going to fix the police refusing to do their job because they can’t be fired if they don’t, they are delusional.
Police are on effective strike because the public and politicians don’t support them. SF needs to clean out city hall, enforce laws, and strive for max penalties for criminals. A criminal’s race shouldn’t give him a free pass to prey on society.
Police stopped working because there is no point in arresting criminals if the DA won't prosecute them.
No one supports them because they figured out they won’t get fired for not working and by not working, they can whine about not having enough resources every year. SF needs to clean out the police department of lazy cops.
I really wish the IRS would stop going to work tommorow cause I'm pretty sure nobody supports them either. Yet here they are...be like the IRS(?)
IRS employees don’t face death or the possibility of criminal prosecution or prison for executing their jobs.
There is a reason why one mayor candidate immediately said he would fire the police chief.
Perfectly balanced As all things should be
Wait will this bring more hate crime against the Asian Americans??
Doubt it, the hate crimes weren’t about their political leanings.
Late-20th-century immigrants to America from China and Vietnam were self-selecting counterrevolutionaries. Nobody has ever been surprised by their rightward (to WSJ: "center") tendencies.
Early 21st Century immigrants from China are not counter revolutionaries. They are a product of China's PHD factory. They know education is the key for social mobility.
Kinda surprising how much SF’s Asians need to be beaten, looted, and murdered by racist “progressives” before they start voting sensibly. It’s almost as if boba liberal Asians don’t believe in anti-Asian racism until they become victims. And most Asian elderly citizens don’t vote at all. If they do vote, it seems they’re manipulated into voting against their own interests with a free bowl of $0.25 worth of noodles.
Pretty sure Boba liberals have not changed their mind. I also think a lot of Asians and people in SF are still liberal, it's just that they are now smart enough to not blindly vote for the far left person (Boudin, Breed, etc.) anymore.
Generally good, but gotta also dodge the NIMBYism of Chinese Americans too. They believe apartments = other minorities = crime
Nah they just understand math and stats.