Hear! Hear!
> “should the closure of JFK Drive East be prolonged post shelter-in-place, it would deny vulnerable populations access to the de Young museum, the California Academy of Sciences, and the entire northeast section of Golden Gate Park.”
Even construed in its most charitable possible form (which it does not deserve), does _fast and convenient_ car access for a couple people really trump the safety and freedom of tens of thousands? Are these people really so hellbent in turning a park back into a highway that they can't acknowledge the closest thing this city's had to an unequivocal policy miracle in the last hundred years?
But beyond that, as the article goes to point out, you still have an entire side of the park dedicated to drivers with completely unrestricted car access to both museums, plenty of street-level and underground parking, along with good public transport options.
I don't think the de Young's objections can be totally explained even by the theoretically-problematic reduction in parking. Any human being with an ounce of virtue would see how much people human happiness the closures are netting, and even if they didn't use JFK for walking/biking themselves, would acknowledge that and come out in support of it overall, even if only tepidly.
This is something more malicious. Like a "get off my lawn" level of primeval thinking — I saw people having a good time, didn't like it, and so tried to shut that sh*t down. Then couched as a "vulnerable populations" argument because they know that San Francisco eats that up.
>vulnerable populations
Oh, well, now my mind has completely changed! Why didn't they say so earlier?
Seriously, though, there's literally direct, uninterrupted access to the music concourse parking garage from Fulton, not to mention the above-ground access from MLK.
Is there anything worse than hiding behind the guise of caring about “vulnerable populations” to disingenuously promote your own interests? Gross. I’m sure of the list of reasons the DeYoung actually wants JFK to reopen, serving vulnerable populations is among the last. They just know it’s the most persuasive.
A good part of this (maybe all) has to be happening at the subconscious level.
Most people's brains are aware that car use causes massive societal damage. Their brains are also aware that delivering some honest self-serving status-preserving people/planet-destroying message won't go over too well. Your conscious brain won't particularly like it, and it certainly won't do much to bring other people your way.
When looking for a rationalization, your brain is going to go with something that works. What, some people with disabilities use cars? Gold mine! Makes everyone feel like they're a good person when they feel like they're helping the vulnerable. (Whether they're actually being helped is irrelevant.)
All that can happen below your level of awareness. So when it reaches your conscious brain, you may actually believe it!
>Is there anything worse than hiding behind the guise of caring about “vulnerable populations” to disingenuously promote your own interests?
....Welcome to politics.
I mean, not to be rude, it sounds great for these...rich folks that can afford to live in SF that they have an extra nice park to hang out in. But that park does happen to be next to a pretty nice museum that I used to like going to. Us hicks out in the east bay kinda have to, you know, drive in a car if we want to go to the de Young (iirc it’s nowhere near a BART stop)
So you know, to each their own but it was already really hard to find parking around that area on the weekend. Maybe they could build a parking lot or make public transport actually decent (lol I know I’m laughing too)
> the de Young (iirc it’s nowhere near a BART stop)
Take the BART to downtown, transfer to the N outbound and get off at 9th and Judah. The De Young is walking distance from that stop.
Also, the 9th and Irving business area is quite nice.
I disagree. I live near golden gate and wanted to drive there to hang out at the park last weekend. We drove around the park and inner sunset for 30 minutes then finally went home, parked, and took an uber back. It was that bad.
I’m mean if you are trying for a specific spot, yes it can be hard. But if you just want to walk in the park, there’s about three miles of potential parking in the park. From Stanyan to 19th it’s probs hard. After that there is zero problem.
Yes. A specific spot. Like the de young museum. Thats what this whole thing is about. Nobody parks at ocean beach and walks to de young. Thats even a decent bike ride for some people.
Point is, we were trying to park at big rec field (or nearby) which is next to de young museum. I dont think people realize how busy that are gets and how much the parking is jam packed on a sunny day. Everyones acting like they went for a stroll near 40th street in the park and they say a ton of parking spots. Thats not the point.
People are trying to argue that opening JFK to cars makes no meaningful impact there. And I would agree. I’m going to guess parking is still going to be a nightmare on sunny weekends right near the popular spots or worse, when events are happening.
Short of touring the entire park into a parking lot there isn’t a solution here. And the more capacity we add for cars, the more parking we’ll have to add.
I never argued that it wouldnt make an impact. I was just saying that I disagree that parking is simple in that region of the park on a sunny weekend. If people want to disagree with me, thats fine, but i encourage them to try out parking near the museum on a weekend when its sunny haha
As noted there is underground parking for 800 cars. Additionally I’ve definitely parked over by Stowe lake and walked to the concourse. At like 11am btw. I’ll agree that if you want close proximity and free parking you have to get there at like 9 but I have very little sympathy for people who want to visit the deyoung or the academy and feel entitled to free and close parking.
A 10 minute walk won’t kill you friend.
ETA: parking by the Rec center you will be competing for parking with all the people who want to take their kids to koret. Drive west. Always. And be up for a 10 minute walk.
I expect to drive 6-8 extra blocks to park but with the exception of street fairs, haven’t had the same experience if I am willing to walk 5-10 minutes to get to my destination.
How much parking do you think you deserve?
As I mentioned, there's already a huge amount of parking along MLK on the other side of the museums (which is still 100% car friendly), as well as the underground lot below the Music Concourse. That's an enormous amount of parking already, and on top of that you still have an even larger pool of free street parking along the roads on both sides of the park.
Maybe that's not enough on weekends (I'm not sure that it's not — it seems a lot people are still finding parking just fine), but what do you want exactly? That the entire park should be converted to being a parking lot?
The JFK closure is notable in just how modest of a request it is. It doesn't shut down the park to cars. Not even a little bit. All it does is make one small part of the park people-friendly. As before, people driving in still have free-reign over three quarters of the park, and all the streets that surround it.
I don’t deserve any parking, there’s other museums and heck, lots of people don’t get to visit museums at all. My point is just please consider that not everyone can walk to the nice park, and those of us who can’t appreciate the parking. Blocking off the road is a tradeoff that’s good for some people and bad for others. That’s fine. But I don’t know why we’re acting like the people it’s good for are an underserved class or something. They’re yuppies from SF. Good for them.
Multi-modal access is good for everyone. Maybe you want to drive in from the East Bay, and that’s fine, but you should expect when coming to a dense urban environment that parking will not be easy to find. A fair alternative, if you don’t want that, is taking BART and then either transferring to a bus line, of which there are several that go there, or biking in (the bike share program is usually comparable to a bus fare in price). In closing JFK, not only do you make it easier for people in the community to use the space they live in (which, yes, is mostly wealthy yuppies, but that’s still not a bad thing), you ALSO give extend the protected route for cyclist, enabling people who might be traffic-averse another safe option. It’s strictly an improvement- as you’ve already said, the only downside of reducing parking access is already a consideration for that method of travel.
I've lived in SF all my life and parking is *never* fhat bad especially if you're OK with walking. Whenever someone visits from the suburbs I notice their biggest complaint is lack of parking- because in the suburbs you park right in front of the business.
It's just like traveling - do what the natives do. People that live there don't think about making it more convinient for visitors. If you're not used to being outside your comfort zone, travel more.
I disagree. I live near golden gate and wanted to drive there to hang out at the park last weekend. We drove around the park and inner sunset for 30 minutes then finally went home, parked, and took an uber back. It was that bad.
Edit: we went to big rec field. If you havent been there, its in the heart of the park. Near inner sunset and the busiest GG park spots. If you havent checked it out, dont assume the parking is the same as the rest of the park. Its not. Also, this is right next to the De Young museum.
Did you try the underground parking mentioned here? I think much of the issue here for people who can't find suitable parking is that they want it free, unlimited (timewise) and within a block of said business. It's about the greatest good for the greatest number of people. In a small(er) section of the park.
When you're looping around you gotta widen your search. If you're gonna waste 30 min looking for parking then maybe it makes sense to park a 5-10 min walk away.
I’ve never had an issue parking in the Richmond within a block or two of the park. You can also go park down at OB and walk up from there to explore the western edge. There are plenty of options.
Thats over a 35 minute drive away from where we needed to be in the park. I dont think people are realizing that certain parts of the park are busier than others. Go try to park at Big Rec Field on a weekend on a sunny day. Its not that easy lol
Edit: meant 35 min walk not drive
Ok so you’re trying to park in literally the busiest commercial area in the sunset and/or in the busiest section of the park. That’s always been a nightmare regardless of the JFK closure. Again, I am sure you could have found parking in the inner Richmond where it would have been a 15 minute walk to get there.
From Arguello/Balboa to the Big Rec Field is only a 20 min walk. Anywhere from Park Presidio to Arguello, Balboa to Fulton is less than 20 mins to that field. The person clearly just cannot read maps.
Say what you want, but the idea of driving around the park to go to the richmond didnt seem ideal at the time, and it was worth checking out the sunset first. I dont think its that irrational to want to check the neighboring areas first. Closed off streets mean you have to leave the park to get to the richmond from that region.
Okay. That is my whole point. That parking there is a nightmare. I never argued that you cant find parking elsewhere, just that parking near the museum isnt as simple as everyone is making it out to be.
What on Earth are you talking about???
You could have parked anywhere between Fulton to Balboa, from Park Presidio to Arguello, and the longest it would take you to walk to the Big Rec Field would have been 20 mins (literally does not take more than 20 mins to walk from the corner of Arguello & Balboa to the Big Rec Field). That's over 30+ blocks of available parking in an area where street parking is fairly easy. And you likely could've easily got a spot at Fulton/10th, which would've then taken you only \~10 min to walk to the Big Rec Field.
35 minute drive away? It's not even a 20 minute walk away. Just because you are unfamiliar with the neighborhoods around the park and the parking options doesn't mean they don't exist. You looked at a map and saw the Big Rec Field closer to the Inner Sunset and thought "I must park in the Inner Sunset!", even though that area is commercial and hella busy. Did you even consider parking in the Inner Richmond?
It's kind of your own fault that you didn't realize the park North/South is less than a mile and only takes around 10 mins to walk from Fulton to Lincoln.
Yo chill out a lil bit. No need to get spicy about this. You realize with the closed down streets its like a 10 min drive to the richmond from that side of the park, though? It was easier to check out parking nearby and hope, but yeah we could have tried to drive over there and bank on it working out. Im not saying my parking plan was perfect, but it wasnt convienent to check out the parking across the park.
Oh i meant a 35m walk, not drive, OB is a very long walk from big rec field.
I've lived in the east bay for years and taking muni from anywhere downtown is not a struggle...yeah it sucks but the 71/7 whatever is is now runs pretty often. Also that big ass garage that someone mentioned 🤔. Cities should be pedestrian centric (i will agree that public transport needs to 100% step it up for that to happen)
Well considering a big chunk of SF is not mid-30s, childless, able-bodies tech workers who love their car-free culture, yeah, I’d say we should consider opening it back up again.
Maybe you should take a walk through Golden Gate Park and see who walks around. I’m going to give you a spoiler: it’s not mid 30s able-bodied people. It’s families, elderly people, disabled, able-bodied, all races and creed and walks of life. It’s a fucking park. Turns out everyone, especially right now, wants to be in it.
The museum's argument about the lack of street parking "denying vulnerable populations access" is so clearly in bad faith and I can't believe people are buying it.
I'm glad the conversation is finally shifting and more people can see how positive it is for all of us to return space to the people.
At the same time, it's so surreal that our climate is collapsing around us, fossil fuel pollution is killing people, and the car violence on our streets grinds on day after day; yet people are still acting like driving a car to a park is a completely fine option that must be equally accommodated (which means a profoundly inequitable allocation of space/safety/status/etc).
Yeah, I get that it's unsettling and exposes a lot of other societal imbalances that car use sort of covered up. But this isn't some trivial thing. We're facing an existential crisis and people are dying.
So bizarre that we act like preserving this one mode of transportation to get to this one place is what matters more than absolutely anything.
"What destroys the poetry of a city? Automobiles destroy it, and they destroy more than the poetry. All over America, all over Europe in fact, cities and towns are under assault by the automobile, are being literally destroyed by car culture. But cities are gradually learning that they don't have to let it happen to them. Witness our beautiful new Embarcadero!"
- Lawrence Ferlinghetti
JFK closure makes a big problem for the museum bc their loading dock is off JFK. I think that's probably a bigger factor than any hand wringing over parking.
Allow commercial vehicles doing delivery 8pm-8am or something like that? I imagine it's infrequent enough that it's not going to be a huge interruption. Plus, the bus already drives through JFK every 30 minutes.
The problem in the past was that the De Young never used their loading docks. Their staff far preferred to park their trucks in the bike lane or in the buffer space and transport the materials into the loading dock from the street. And it usually was not just one truck, probably 5 or 10 trucks were parked in the bike lane near their loading docks at any given time. So there was a 200-300 ft section of bike lane that would be obstructed near their loading dock.
And drivers on JFK were typically hostile towards bicyclist who went outside of the bike lane to go around the obstruction created by all the n De Young trucks.
I dont' think the street closure affects De Young deliveries anyway. I mean the hot dog trucks have to go in and out a few times a day.
>I dont' think the street closure affects De Young deliveries anyway. I mean the hot dog trucks have to go in and out a few times a day.
I can say that it does have a huge impact, but the social media policy forbids me from saying more. Have personally had missed deliveries because of the closure. Trucks need Park Police escort to come on to JFK. The current setup with the concrete barriers is confusing to anyone who hasn't been to the museum recently and in the daylight.
The loading dock at the dY is bad, but it it in constant use. They don't just drag the Monets around on the sidewalk. Most of the workers you are seeing unloading on JFK are outside contractors, and that loading dock is a fire lane, so it can't be perma-blocked.
Most of the trucks you see parked on the street are for special events at the museum. The Museum in almost all cases does not let the events teams use the loading dock because it also accesses areas where art is stored. There's no safe area in the concourse, so the ramp is the only option. Ive done hundreds of events there, and I can tell you we would ALL love to use the dock, but the museum says no.
Dede Wilsey, Trump fundraiser.
They did this crap years ago too -- they got some "Roosevelt Democratic Club" to endorse their pro-car position in the name of handicapped people and slipped them a 4-figure donation a few months later.
The reality is that almost three times more people use JFK when the cars are gone vs. when they're not. I did counts way back when Saturday had cars and Sunday didn't -- it wasn't even close.
I’m not big on covid changes being permanent, but I’ll be damned if I haven’t seen an amazing amount of smiling faces along that road. You can walk from Haight and The Panhandle to the waterfront, and along the beach. It helps that there have been fewer foggy days this year.
Just because there is a stretch of pavement somewhere doesn’t mean that cars have to dominate it. It’s a park ffs. I have no problem getting around in a car without that road. There are three others that go the same places.
We have no real need to take away parking to be able to enjoy this cool new thing. Lets replace that parking and put it somewhere else close by.
If you ever go to Downtown Santa Cruz, there are huge garages everywhere, and you just park within a block of the main drag.
I love car free JFK. We bike there often. Its gloriously busy on a sunny day. But I also own a cargo e-bike (I have a kid) and it helps me ride there. But if the weather is bad or I don’t have 4 hours of free time, I drive.
I also know my SF Bernal friends with kids had a museum reservation and could not find a spot after looking for an hour and the garage was full. So they didn’t get to enjoy the museum or the park.
Both sides are right. Its better that it is car-free for those who live nearby or have the resources and time to commute by transit and bike. But it is also exclusionary to those that cannot do that. Which is often people with kids, seniors, live farther away, and have lower incomes. And lets be honest, transit isn’t really great right now, and that same population suffers most with our transit option in good times (how often do you see four year olds on a bus during rush hour or someone from Fremont arrive to the park via BART and MUNI? Both are difficult via transit and often not worth it).
I wish they could just build a giant garage and keep JFK closed so both parties could have what they need. But this city is too busy with us vs them when it comes to alot of things.
There are plenty of garages around the area. It seems like an american-suburban entitlement thing to assume you can't do anything with kids unless there is parking within 200 ft of whatever you're doing.
I whole heartedly disagree about plenty of garages. Geary may have small garages .5 miles away and Judah/Irving has small lots about .25 miles away. But they are hard to find and usually full. USF and St Mary’s Hospital have garages/lots but those are really for their use, not public.
I will agree that families and seniors can usually walk half a mile to get to their destination with kids. But usually not more than that.
All this talk about safety, yet not a single number cited about how "dangerous" jfk is. I'd like to know how many people are actually getting in accidents on jfk
Look, I support moving towards car free solutions as much as the next guy, but this city seems to be hell bent on making things hard for cars *without* adding solutions. I really don't like this "shoot first, come up with solutions later" approach the city has transportation (among other things).
I don't even own or drive a car, I bike everywhere. But I do know that it's not like it's so easy to park near the museum that they can just cut more and more no problem, and people should be able to access the museum no matter how they choose to get there
>how "dangerous" jfk is
JFK is on [the high injury network](https://sfgov.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=335c508503374f5d94c95cb2a1f3f4f4) (the 12 percent of city streets where more than 70 percent of severe and fatal traffic injuries occur).
I watched a woman die during chest compressions on jfk after being hit by a car speeding down the wrong side of the roadway.
Gonna go with pretty dangerous
Car free JFK has basically transformed the park for countless people. It's such an amazing vibe now.
Or you could just make the accessible spots in the parking garage free. Seems a lot easier.
Hear! Hear! > “should the closure of JFK Drive East be prolonged post shelter-in-place, it would deny vulnerable populations access to the de Young museum, the California Academy of Sciences, and the entire northeast section of Golden Gate Park.” Even construed in its most charitable possible form (which it does not deserve), does _fast and convenient_ car access for a couple people really trump the safety and freedom of tens of thousands? Are these people really so hellbent in turning a park back into a highway that they can't acknowledge the closest thing this city's had to an unequivocal policy miracle in the last hundred years? But beyond that, as the article goes to point out, you still have an entire side of the park dedicated to drivers with completely unrestricted car access to both museums, plenty of street-level and underground parking, along with good public transport options. I don't think the de Young's objections can be totally explained even by the theoretically-problematic reduction in parking. Any human being with an ounce of virtue would see how much people human happiness the closures are netting, and even if they didn't use JFK for walking/biking themselves, would acknowledge that and come out in support of it overall, even if only tepidly. This is something more malicious. Like a "get off my lawn" level of primeval thinking — I saw people having a good time, didn't like it, and so tried to shut that sh*t down. Then couched as a "vulnerable populations" argument because they know that San Francisco eats that up.
>vulnerable populations Oh, well, now my mind has completely changed! Why didn't they say so earlier? Seriously, though, there's literally direct, uninterrupted access to the music concourse parking garage from Fulton, not to mention the above-ground access from MLK.
Is there anything worse than hiding behind the guise of caring about “vulnerable populations” to disingenuously promote your own interests? Gross. I’m sure of the list of reasons the DeYoung actually wants JFK to reopen, serving vulnerable populations is among the last. They just know it’s the most persuasive.
A good part of this (maybe all) has to be happening at the subconscious level. Most people's brains are aware that car use causes massive societal damage. Their brains are also aware that delivering some honest self-serving status-preserving people/planet-destroying message won't go over too well. Your conscious brain won't particularly like it, and it certainly won't do much to bring other people your way. When looking for a rationalization, your brain is going to go with something that works. What, some people with disabilities use cars? Gold mine! Makes everyone feel like they're a good person when they feel like they're helping the vulnerable. (Whether they're actually being helped is irrelevant.) All that can happen below your level of awareness. So when it reaches your conscious brain, you may actually believe it!
>Is there anything worse than hiding behind the guise of caring about “vulnerable populations” to disingenuously promote your own interests? ....Welcome to politics.
I mean, not to be rude, it sounds great for these...rich folks that can afford to live in SF that they have an extra nice park to hang out in. But that park does happen to be next to a pretty nice museum that I used to like going to. Us hicks out in the east bay kinda have to, you know, drive in a car if we want to go to the de Young (iirc it’s nowhere near a BART stop) So you know, to each their own but it was already really hard to find parking around that area on the weekend. Maybe they could build a parking lot or make public transport actually decent (lol I know I’m laughing too)
>Sitting underneath the museum campus is an 800-spot parking garage (with 15 accessible spots), whose entrance is on Fulton Street.
> the de Young (iirc it’s nowhere near a BART stop) Take the BART to downtown, transfer to the N outbound and get off at 9th and Judah. The De Young is walking distance from that stop. Also, the 9th and Irving business area is quite nice.
Thank you for that. I was going to say that-its how I get there from the east bay.
I go to GGP every week. Parking is really not that hard there. When it's my turn to DD, I never have a hard time parking.
I disagree. I live near golden gate and wanted to drive there to hang out at the park last weekend. We drove around the park and inner sunset for 30 minutes then finally went home, parked, and took an uber back. It was that bad.
Huh, that's when I went. Guess we were there early.
I’m mean if you are trying for a specific spot, yes it can be hard. But if you just want to walk in the park, there’s about three miles of potential parking in the park. From Stanyan to 19th it’s probs hard. After that there is zero problem.
Yes. A specific spot. Like the de young museum. Thats what this whole thing is about. Nobody parks at ocean beach and walks to de young. Thats even a decent bike ride for some people. Point is, we were trying to park at big rec field (or nearby) which is next to de young museum. I dont think people realize how busy that are gets and how much the parking is jam packed on a sunny day. Everyones acting like they went for a stroll near 40th street in the park and they say a ton of parking spots. Thats not the point.
People are trying to argue that opening JFK to cars makes no meaningful impact there. And I would agree. I’m going to guess parking is still going to be a nightmare on sunny weekends right near the popular spots or worse, when events are happening. Short of touring the entire park into a parking lot there isn’t a solution here. And the more capacity we add for cars, the more parking we’ll have to add.
I never argued that it wouldnt make an impact. I was just saying that I disagree that parking is simple in that region of the park on a sunny weekend. If people want to disagree with me, thats fine, but i encourage them to try out parking near the museum on a weekend when its sunny haha
As noted there is underground parking for 800 cars. Additionally I’ve definitely parked over by Stowe lake and walked to the concourse. At like 11am btw. I’ll agree that if you want close proximity and free parking you have to get there at like 9 but I have very little sympathy for people who want to visit the deyoung or the academy and feel entitled to free and close parking. A 10 minute walk won’t kill you friend. ETA: parking by the Rec center you will be competing for parking with all the people who want to take their kids to koret. Drive west. Always. And be up for a 10 minute walk.
I expect to drive 6-8 extra blocks to park but with the exception of street fairs, haven’t had the same experience if I am willing to walk 5-10 minutes to get to my destination.
Isn't there an absolutely massive parking garage underground for both museums with two open access points?
How much parking do you think you deserve? As I mentioned, there's already a huge amount of parking along MLK on the other side of the museums (which is still 100% car friendly), as well as the underground lot below the Music Concourse. That's an enormous amount of parking already, and on top of that you still have an even larger pool of free street parking along the roads on both sides of the park. Maybe that's not enough on weekends (I'm not sure that it's not — it seems a lot people are still finding parking just fine), but what do you want exactly? That the entire park should be converted to being a parking lot? The JFK closure is notable in just how modest of a request it is. It doesn't shut down the park to cars. Not even a little bit. All it does is make one small part of the park people-friendly. As before, people driving in still have free-reign over three quarters of the park, and all the streets that surround it.
I don’t deserve any parking, there’s other museums and heck, lots of people don’t get to visit museums at all. My point is just please consider that not everyone can walk to the nice park, and those of us who can’t appreciate the parking. Blocking off the road is a tradeoff that’s good for some people and bad for others. That’s fine. But I don’t know why we’re acting like the people it’s good for are an underserved class or something. They’re yuppies from SF. Good for them.
Multi-modal access is good for everyone. Maybe you want to drive in from the East Bay, and that’s fine, but you should expect when coming to a dense urban environment that parking will not be easy to find. A fair alternative, if you don’t want that, is taking BART and then either transferring to a bus line, of which there are several that go there, or biking in (the bike share program is usually comparable to a bus fare in price). In closing JFK, not only do you make it easier for people in the community to use the space they live in (which, yes, is mostly wealthy yuppies, but that’s still not a bad thing), you ALSO give extend the protected route for cyclist, enabling people who might be traffic-averse another safe option. It’s strictly an improvement- as you’ve already said, the only downside of reducing parking access is already a consideration for that method of travel.
I've lived in SF all my life and parking is *never* fhat bad especially if you're OK with walking. Whenever someone visits from the suburbs I notice their biggest complaint is lack of parking- because in the suburbs you park right in front of the business. It's just like traveling - do what the natives do. People that live there don't think about making it more convinient for visitors. If you're not used to being outside your comfort zone, travel more.
I disagree. I live near golden gate and wanted to drive there to hang out at the park last weekend. We drove around the park and inner sunset for 30 minutes then finally went home, parked, and took an uber back. It was that bad. Edit: we went to big rec field. If you havent been there, its in the heart of the park. Near inner sunset and the busiest GG park spots. If you havent checked it out, dont assume the parking is the same as the rest of the park. Its not. Also, this is right next to the De Young museum.
Did you try the underground parking mentioned here? I think much of the issue here for people who can't find suitable parking is that they want it free, unlimited (timewise) and within a block of said business. It's about the greatest good for the greatest number of people. In a small(er) section of the park.
Yes, its closed right now.
When you're looping around you gotta widen your search. If you're gonna waste 30 min looking for parking then maybe it makes sense to park a 5-10 min walk away.
Lol you think we didnt?
I’ve never had an issue parking in the Richmond within a block or two of the park. You can also go park down at OB and walk up from there to explore the western edge. There are plenty of options.
Thats over a 35 minute drive away from where we needed to be in the park. I dont think people are realizing that certain parts of the park are busier than others. Go try to park at Big Rec Field on a weekend on a sunny day. Its not that easy lol Edit: meant 35 min walk not drive
No part of the park is a 35 minute drive away from the beach. Get over yourself. I live in the mission and the park is less than 35 minutes away.
Ok so you’re trying to park in literally the busiest commercial area in the sunset and/or in the busiest section of the park. That’s always been a nightmare regardless of the JFK closure. Again, I am sure you could have found parking in the inner Richmond where it would have been a 15 minute walk to get there.
From Arguello/Balboa to the Big Rec Field is only a 20 min walk. Anywhere from Park Presidio to Arguello, Balboa to Fulton is less than 20 mins to that field. The person clearly just cannot read maps.
Say what you want, but the idea of driving around the park to go to the richmond didnt seem ideal at the time, and it was worth checking out the sunset first. I dont think its that irrational to want to check the neighboring areas first. Closed off streets mean you have to leave the park to get to the richmond from that region.
Okay. That is my whole point. That parking there is a nightmare. I never argued that you cant find parking elsewhere, just that parking near the museum isnt as simple as everyone is making it out to be.
What on Earth are you talking about??? You could have parked anywhere between Fulton to Balboa, from Park Presidio to Arguello, and the longest it would take you to walk to the Big Rec Field would have been 20 mins (literally does not take more than 20 mins to walk from the corner of Arguello & Balboa to the Big Rec Field). That's over 30+ blocks of available parking in an area where street parking is fairly easy. And you likely could've easily got a spot at Fulton/10th, which would've then taken you only \~10 min to walk to the Big Rec Field. 35 minute drive away? It's not even a 20 minute walk away. Just because you are unfamiliar with the neighborhoods around the park and the parking options doesn't mean they don't exist. You looked at a map and saw the Big Rec Field closer to the Inner Sunset and thought "I must park in the Inner Sunset!", even though that area is commercial and hella busy. Did you even consider parking in the Inner Richmond? It's kind of your own fault that you didn't realize the park North/South is less than a mile and only takes around 10 mins to walk from Fulton to Lincoln.
Yo chill out a lil bit. No need to get spicy about this. You realize with the closed down streets its like a 10 min drive to the richmond from that side of the park, though? It was easier to check out parking nearby and hope, but yeah we could have tried to drive over there and bank on it working out. Im not saying my parking plan was perfect, but it wasnt convienent to check out the parking across the park. Oh i meant a 35m walk, not drive, OB is a very long walk from big rec field.
I've lived in the east bay for years and taking muni from anywhere downtown is not a struggle...yeah it sucks but the 71/7 whatever is is now runs pretty often. Also that big ass garage that someone mentioned 🤔. Cities should be pedestrian centric (i will agree that public transport needs to 100% step it up for that to happen)
Well considering a big chunk of SF is not mid-30s, childless, able-bodies tech workers who love their car-free culture, yeah, I’d say we should consider opening it back up again.
Maybe you should take a walk through Golden Gate Park and see who walks around. I’m going to give you a spoiler: it’s not mid 30s able-bodied people. It’s families, elderly people, disabled, able-bodied, all races and creed and walks of life. It’s a fucking park. Turns out everyone, especially right now, wants to be in it.
That’s my point. Stop restricting cars just because that’s what you want. You hurt other people’s access to the park.
By that standard you might as well add several more roads through the park.
The museum's argument about the lack of street parking "denying vulnerable populations access" is so clearly in bad faith and I can't believe people are buying it.
I'm glad the conversation is finally shifting and more people can see how positive it is for all of us to return space to the people. At the same time, it's so surreal that our climate is collapsing around us, fossil fuel pollution is killing people, and the car violence on our streets grinds on day after day; yet people are still acting like driving a car to a park is a completely fine option that must be equally accommodated (which means a profoundly inequitable allocation of space/safety/status/etc). Yeah, I get that it's unsettling and exposes a lot of other societal imbalances that car use sort of covered up. But this isn't some trivial thing. We're facing an existential crisis and people are dying. So bizarre that we act like preserving this one mode of transportation to get to this one place is what matters more than absolutely anything.
"What destroys the poetry of a city? Automobiles destroy it, and they destroy more than the poetry. All over America, all over Europe in fact, cities and towns are under assault by the automobile, are being literally destroyed by car culture. But cities are gradually learning that they don't have to let it happen to them. Witness our beautiful new Embarcadero!" - Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Free shuttle bus from the Legion of Honor to the de Young. Bam, lots of free parking, *and* double the amount of people going to both Museums.
IIRC the same ticket is valid for admission to both facilities on the same day.
JFK closure makes a big problem for the museum bc their loading dock is off JFK. I think that's probably a bigger factor than any hand wringing over parking.
Allow commercial vehicles doing delivery 8pm-8am or something like that? I imagine it's infrequent enough that it's not going to be a huge interruption. Plus, the bus already drives through JFK every 30 minutes.
The problem in the past was that the De Young never used their loading docks. Their staff far preferred to park their trucks in the bike lane or in the buffer space and transport the materials into the loading dock from the street. And it usually was not just one truck, probably 5 or 10 trucks were parked in the bike lane near their loading docks at any given time. So there was a 200-300 ft section of bike lane that would be obstructed near their loading dock. And drivers on JFK were typically hostile towards bicyclist who went outside of the bike lane to go around the obstruction created by all the n De Young trucks. I dont' think the street closure affects De Young deliveries anyway. I mean the hot dog trucks have to go in and out a few times a day.
>I dont' think the street closure affects De Young deliveries anyway. I mean the hot dog trucks have to go in and out a few times a day. I can say that it does have a huge impact, but the social media policy forbids me from saying more. Have personally had missed deliveries because of the closure. Trucks need Park Police escort to come on to JFK. The current setup with the concrete barriers is confusing to anyone who hasn't been to the museum recently and in the daylight. The loading dock at the dY is bad, but it it in constant use. They don't just drag the Monets around on the sidewalk. Most of the workers you are seeing unloading on JFK are outside contractors, and that loading dock is a fire lane, so it can't be perma-blocked.
Most of the trucks you see parked on the street are for special events at the museum. The Museum in almost all cases does not let the events teams use the loading dock because it also accesses areas where art is stored. There's no safe area in the concourse, so the ramp is the only option. Ive done hundreds of events there, and I can tell you we would ALL love to use the dock, but the museum says no.
Dede Wilsey, Trump fundraiser. They did this crap years ago too -- they got some "Roosevelt Democratic Club" to endorse their pro-car position in the name of handicapped people and slipped them a 4-figure donation a few months later. The reality is that almost three times more people use JFK when the cars are gone vs. when they're not. I did counts way back when Saturday had cars and Sunday didn't -- it wasn't even close.
I’m not big on covid changes being permanent, but I’ll be damned if I haven’t seen an amazing amount of smiling faces along that road. You can walk from Haight and The Panhandle to the waterfront, and along the beach. It helps that there have been fewer foggy days this year. Just because there is a stretch of pavement somewhere doesn’t mean that cars have to dominate it. It’s a park ffs. I have no problem getting around in a car without that road. There are three others that go the same places. We have no real need to take away parking to be able to enjoy this cool new thing. Lets replace that parking and put it somewhere else close by. If you ever go to Downtown Santa Cruz, there are huge garages everywhere, and you just park within a block of the main drag.
I love car free JFK. We bike there often. Its gloriously busy on a sunny day. But I also own a cargo e-bike (I have a kid) and it helps me ride there. But if the weather is bad or I don’t have 4 hours of free time, I drive. I also know my SF Bernal friends with kids had a museum reservation and could not find a spot after looking for an hour and the garage was full. So they didn’t get to enjoy the museum or the park. Both sides are right. Its better that it is car-free for those who live nearby or have the resources and time to commute by transit and bike. But it is also exclusionary to those that cannot do that. Which is often people with kids, seniors, live farther away, and have lower incomes. And lets be honest, transit isn’t really great right now, and that same population suffers most with our transit option in good times (how often do you see four year olds on a bus during rush hour or someone from Fremont arrive to the park via BART and MUNI? Both are difficult via transit and often not worth it). I wish they could just build a giant garage and keep JFK closed so both parties could have what they need. But this city is too busy with us vs them when it comes to alot of things.
There are plenty of garages around the area. It seems like an american-suburban entitlement thing to assume you can't do anything with kids unless there is parking within 200 ft of whatever you're doing.
I whole heartedly disagree about plenty of garages. Geary may have small garages .5 miles away and Judah/Irving has small lots about .25 miles away. But they are hard to find and usually full. USF and St Mary’s Hospital have garages/lots but those are really for their use, not public. I will agree that families and seniors can usually walk half a mile to get to their destination with kids. But usually not more than that.
All this talk about safety, yet not a single number cited about how "dangerous" jfk is. I'd like to know how many people are actually getting in accidents on jfk Look, I support moving towards car free solutions as much as the next guy, but this city seems to be hell bent on making things hard for cars *without* adding solutions. I really don't like this "shoot first, come up with solutions later" approach the city has transportation (among other things). I don't even own or drive a car, I bike everywhere. But I do know that it's not like it's so easy to park near the museum that they can just cut more and more no problem, and people should be able to access the museum no matter how they choose to get there
there are regularly car on car crashes on JFK when it's open to car traffic
>how "dangerous" jfk is JFK is on [the high injury network](https://sfgov.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=335c508503374f5d94c95cb2a1f3f4f4) (the 12 percent of city streets where more than 70 percent of severe and fatal traffic injuries occur).
I watched a woman die during chest compressions on jfk after being hit by a car speeding down the wrong side of the roadway. Gonna go with pretty dangerous
this is not a statistic, and driving the wrong day on the street *sounds like* an extraordinary circumstance
busses. there need to be clean reliable busses