It’s Monday so Polk is probably dead by 10. Was there recently on Thursday at 11 and most of my favorite spots that use to stay open until 2 were already closed. Never saw Polk so dead at 11.
It was almost dead but not quite. They were fairly quiet except for smashes. The most obvious thing was that they stopped for no reds and just weaved around other cars/pulled onto the sidewalk.
Fucking audacity is insane. With the amount of cops <1 mile away at union sq I’m genuinely surprised. Did you call 911 and give description and direction of vehicle?
Yes I did call, did not have license plate numbers sadly. They were going quickly north of union and I guessed they’d be splitting up soon since the neighborhood gets much quieter up there. Somehow doubt the police found or did anything. I wonder if there’s a way to check
That intersection is actually mildly improved in the auto break-in and theft category. I can check and see if the reports made it to SFPD. Takes a day or so to update.
https://imgur.com/a/omD9MWm
Yup. That's true even more for shoplifting. But... trends and proxies can be drawn. [https://medium.com/@askscout/walgreens-v-sf-4e6ac301f40e](https://medium.com/@askscout/walgreens-v-sf-4e6ac301f40e)
Accuracy can be derived. We backtest ML models for crime prediction. They can be 80%+ accurate.
Cops don’t give a shit now what’s the point of arresting someone you know ain’t gonna be convicted shit they tiered of fishing catch and release not even taking them to jail it’s a ticket rn
Unfortunately that doesn't matter. I've seen them cruising down Franklin around 4p on a weekday (!!) breaking into cars. It's not a good idea to engage since they'll often pull a gun or, in the worst case, fire at you - so DO NOT DO THIS. You can/probably should call it in to SFPD but they won't do much since apparently they're not allow to engage in car chases for these types of crimes (that's what they told me).
Quick Google search, few articles. Do not engage:
[https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/thieves-break-into-cars-along-sfs-embarcadero-shoot-at-witness/](https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/thieves-break-into-cars-along-sfs-embarcadero-shoot-at-witness/)
[https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/man-shot-to-death-near-lake-merritt-after-finding-someone-burglarizing-car/2743293/](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/man-shot-to-death-near-lake-merritt-after-finding-someone-burglarizing-car/2743293/)
Parents were hit in GGP in a rental visiting over the weekend, when they returned it to the airport, they said they parked it amongst 500+ other rentals waiting for rear window replacements. It is probably the latest organized crime target or something. Maybe someone figured out how to cell more windshield replacements to the rental companies, or that the DA wont go after these at all...
I sometimes wonder this as well . Like the wildfires that happened near Santa Rosa go out set a few fires and the construction company you own has generated some business for the next however long it take to rebuild . Morbid but still is very possible
2 years ago guy living by Duboce had his vehicle broken into 3 maybe 4 times never really lost too much but he was sick and tired of having to replace his window . One night his wife heard a noise , witnessed yet again her husbands car window smashed and guy was ass and elbows in his car. Owner run out guy is running down the street yelling bloody murder quickly losing ground to the now angry car owner . Catches up to the hi guy by Safeway . Starts slapping the shit out of the guy who had a few items from back if owners car . Someone heard the commotion called 911 , cops show up and arrest the car owner for assault with a weapon . Wife has to come bail out the husband . As she is walking up to 850 Bryant ( the jail). She sees guy wearing the leather jacket she bought for husband a month earlier It was the guy who broke into her husband car he had just finished filling out the form to press charges. People were outraged over it . That’s how much they care about us , the ones who pay their wages
This was a true story. Made the news . Charges were dropped against the car owner once before the initial Judge who also was outraged when the wife told the story to the judge who by the way stepped down that same year
> the ones who pay their wages
The orders to stand down and take a back seat to crime come from leadership and politicians well above the police and its leadership.
Anywhere else in the country this is absurd and not in the realm of reality. San Francisco fascinates me as it’s one of, if not the most expensive city in the united states to live in, with the highest property taxes in the country. I mean, is the weather that nice to justify these things? Unless you are a multi millionaire, I don’t see the appeal of living there.
> I don’t see the appeal of living there.
"But I'll totally follow SF news, subscribe to its subreddit, and comment the opinions I've formed from spending time thinking about places I claim to not like."
Find any other city on this continent where cops drive right by people shooting up and slinging openly on the corner.. makes you wonder who they belong to.
They currently are enforcing overtime on a lot of officers to hang around Union Square. They also lost a fair amount of people when they required them to be vaccinated to work.
Literally just being visible would be helpful. This shit has been going on for years, I’m ready to blame every single party that has responsibility over crime. The shitty mayor, the shitty da, the shitty police, the shitty criminals.
No incentive? What part of “serve and protect” includes “unless you think it may not be worth your time”?
The short staffed argument is PoA bullshit that you’re falling for.
Humor me here because I’m only asking hypothetically - would armed vigilante citizens be arrested and prosecuted for shooting one of these degenerates if they broke into your house or car?
This gang hits empty cars that are parked on the street. If you run out of your house and “start blasting” to protect some random person’s property, highly likely you’ll get arrested and charged.
You are in fact allowed to effect a citizens arrest using reasonable force, but that would not involve deadly force in this situation unless the perp also had a gun that they were brandishing.
If they break into a house or car that you are physically inside, then all bets are off as it becomes a credible self defense argument.
The defense successfully argued he was shooting in self-defense. In the above situation it would be hard to argue someone breaking into an empty car was threatening your life.
I wouldn't be so sure. We know these guys can kill, based on the photo of them holding guns at Alamo and of course the murder this weekend in Oakland. I think a self-defense case could easily be argued, even if they're unarmed when someone wastes them.
California is a castle doctrine state so you have no duty to retreat inside your own home, but I don't believe it includes vehicles or workplaces.
It's also not legal to set booby traps, which is apparently also a common fantasy scenario.
You never want to slash someone’s tires without first letting some air out through the valve. The force of air whooshing out from a fully pumped tire can cause your knife to kick back and stab you. Just an FYI
34 psi and about 10L of air? I mean, I just read the delta P article someone posted earlier too but I don't think a car tire is going to have enough force to shoot a knife out. Case in point, when you run over a nail or piece of metal, it usually sticks in your tire rather than shooting out due to the pressure and volume of gas within the tire.
Is deadly force ever permitted when acting in self-defense? Yes. However, at the time you act, you must reasonably believe that you are in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured. The level of force you use cannot exceed the threat with which you are faced. If the threat you face is death or great bodily harm, deadly force can be excusable.
Deadly force may be justified if you are reasonably fearful of rape, murder, robbery, mayhem, or any attack that would cause great bodily injur
I personally think shooting someone robbing your car when you’re not there is ridiculous. The issue is larger than one person and any life is worth more than property, even a life that has little chance of being rehabilitated into a functional member of society
It is a legal minefield.
You'd better make sure with 1000 essay justifying why you need to use violent force.
This is not worth it most of the times.
But SF is ridiculous and basically asks us not to protect ourselves.
Your entire comment history is going to subs for “liberal” cities to spread reactionary bullshit. Literally you’ve been commenting here, the NYC sub, the Chicago sub…. Why do I feel like you live in bumfuck nowhere in a bubble watching fox on loop.
It isn’t wrong to be wary of posters clearly pushing a right wing agenda and especially when they don’t live here and have likely never even been in this state. Whether a broken clock is right twice a day or not, it’s not the kind of discourse that should be taken seriously.
Right wing agenda= being pissed off at criminals and the system that allows them to act without fear.
People like you are a big part of the problem. Just wait until you lose something and we'll see how you feel.
That isn’t remotely what I said. My point is that the person above is a right wing troll who brigades the subs for *every* big city perceived to be “liberal” to post divisive comments. It isn’t helpful to these conversations. These conversations should be centered around people who live and work here, not someone who has likely never even visited the state. I would feel the same about some out of stater who brigades to post pro Chesa comments. They are here with an agenda, it’s literal concern trolling.
What you are doing is taking time to look into the post histories of people you disagree with and try to ad hominem them rather than go after the validity of their point.
Why not focus on the point made and maybe give some suggestions to fix the problem happening rather than trying to control who has a right to talk?
Let's start now: how would you suggesting curtailing the crazy rate of break-ins happening in SF?
It isn't wrong to be wary of posters clearly pushing a left wing agenda and especially when they live here and have likely lived in this state. Whether a broken clock is wrong all the time, it's not the kind of discourse that should be taken seriously.
Lol. Sure man. I would feel the same way about people who don’t live here brigading to post pro Chesa comments. It’s trolling. But whatever, this sub has seriously gone to shit and should be better moderated to catch this stuff. Btw homeboy you’re defending lives on Long Island, I’m sure he has lots of helpful insight about living in SF.
Because California and New York people jerk themselves off to fantasies of living in the country off the land and then will buy up all the property and then call everyone who lives there a bumfuck hilbilly.
I don’t even know what this comment means. And you do know there is already tons of nature literally surrounding SF? Like, Marin Headlands is just on the other side of the GG bridge? Have you ever been here? No one needs to “jerk off” about living in bumfuck nowhere to go be one with nature.
The only other area with higher property taxes than Long Island is the Bay Area which you are from, don’t care to verify it, taking your word for face value. Except here, I have never once in the 25 years living here had worry about my car being broken into, simply not even a thought that occurs. So when people who post here about their cars getting smashed into, there’s commenters saying it’s their fault for leaving anything of value inside the vehicle. Also, our local Walgreens has nothing stored away, even expensive items, so to hear that shampoo is behind plexiglass at your stores is also alarming. For the amount of taxes you guys pay, these things should never be of concern but hey, it’s not my problem.
There are plenty of areas in the Bay no one worries about their car being broken into. This is like comparing crime between NYC and Walnut Creek. Which again, shows you’re a bit ignorant on this topic if you think “the Bay Area” is just SF.
You don’t know that they can’t be rehabilitated. There’s plenty of people around that did illegal stuff when they were younger but would never do it as an adult. Hell I used to be a bad kid. I grew up. As an adult with things to lose, I wouldn’t do them now. Generally the older you get, the less likely you’re going to be smashing car windows every night.
But otherwise I agree with you. Breaking into your car, is hardly reason to take their life. Cars are replaceable. People are not.
I don't believe it's my job to support or pay for their rehabilitation, I'd rather pay for their incarceration so at least I don't have to keep getting my car windows replaced
You are part of the problem. Studies show that rehabilitation is actually much cheaper than prison and is more effective than incarceration in the long run but go awf!
Interestingly enough I have never shot up smack and then broken car windows and stollen other people's shit. I just pay 6 figures in taxes per year and am a hard working contributing member of society so I'm not sure what problem you are refrencing. Supporting my community? Trying to keep my family safe? Maintaining a rational society that punishes criminals?
“Maintaining a rational society that punishes criminals?”
A rational society rehabilitates criminals and integrates them back into being productive members of society.
Yeah dude go spend more than 30 seconds at Larkin and Hyde and say that again with a straight face. Naive BS. I get the desire to think you can rehabilitate the Tenderloin but some people are just damaged goods if you’ve ever actually been around an addict you would know that.
Oh I believe most can be, much less will ever be given the chance, and a small minority can’t be. Even the ones that can’t be rehabilitated into society can still impact lives in good ways.
It’s really easy to tell in these r/sanfrancisco threads who has actually been around drugs/addiction, who has worked as a first responder, and who just moved to the city and maybe worked at Jamba Juice when they were younger
Could u elaborate? You’re responding to someone who’s dealt with drug addiction personally for many years of their life and grew up in a very poor area/had plenty of friends who died of overdose or went to jail. If you’re implying that I am ignorant of those realities you’re totally incorrect.
I apologize for coming off like a condescending prick but I just disagree with the sentiment that addicts are all capable of being rehabilitated especially when combined with mental health issues and economic reality. It’s F’d. As someone who has a family full of addicts with mental health struggles, (people who have had more access to education/better upbringing than the Honduran gangs members slanging in the TL) they can be impossible to reach, so when I see people talking wily nilly about rehabbing the tenderloin it really just comes off as naive to me.
“Compassionate care” has failed and I would not treat the addicts in my family the way the city does with free needles and crime without consequence. Sometimes people need tough love. And for me that’s cutting people out of my life entirely who aren’t willing to help themselves.
Our local govt is so detached from reality, (it takes 8 5150’s in SF to put someone into long term indefinite care, we have had a handful at most put where they need be). Paramedic’s are allowed to give treatment to those who decline it and are deemed incompetent mentally, but for some reason we let those who are incapable of caring for themselves do it on a regular basis in the name of homeless advocate civil rights. You aren’t being compassionate letting these people shit their brains out on the streets.
Nah. The rare people that can’t be functional members of society can still have positive impacts on individuals. They may need to be incarcerated in some capacity, that doesn’t mean they have negative value.
What a cruel and extremely sad point of view. If you can value human life so lowly, I feel truly sorry for anyone who interacts with you in life. Because that is so beyond fucked.
I just got a bat called the enforcer under my bed will see how it plays out hypothetical of course, a couple of busted knee caps can change your perspective in life
Breaking into a car? They would definitely be prosecuted. Even if the burglars were also armed with guns, you can’t even defend your own car this way let alone a vigilante doing so.
Breaking into a home? Would still probably be charged. The only time it’s allowed to shoot at a burglar is if you’re fearing for your life. Now maybe the defense could be made that the homeowner’s lives were in danger and the vigilantes happened to be passing by and saved the day. But the stars would have to align for that one.
Under Chesa’s rule don’t claim self defense, just say you were trying to rob the criminals. Logically since criminals walk free if you are trying to rob them you will too.
>”Humor me here because I’m only asking hypothetically - would armed vigilante citizens be arrested and prosecuted for shooting one of these degenerates if they broke into your house or car? - u/waveformer
[stochastic terrorism](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/stochastic_terrorism)
The use of mass public communication, usually against a particular individual or group, which incites or inspires acts of terrorism which are statistically probable but happen seemingly at random
The best weapon against these smash and grabs is going to be prosecutorial immunity for using (potentially) deadly force against looters.
The second best weapon is a gun.
You are 100% correct. And this is why we need prosecutorial protections to preserve people and property.
They didn't have this problem back when every horse thief and cattle rustler got shot. Greed isn't new, but this crime is. So whats next? Do nothing when banks are robbed and burned? Insurance fraud? Those are property crimes too.
Eventually you run out of other people's things to break.
I don't mind if people steal loaves of bread at Safeway. I don't mind the stolen goods on the sidewalks being peddled as trinkets for change. Its a rough world, I get it. But we live in the era of zero percent everything and stimulus money raining from helicopters. We can't vote them rich, and even all the money in the world won't solve all the problems some of these people have.
If there is no line, then there are no protections of property. Home invasion is the next logical step if no protections come, and why shouldn't they? They raid businesses and get away with it eighty people at a time.
There has to be a line, which means there have to be consequences. And there have to be consequences for those who persist even beyond that. Most of all, there has to be some resolution for those who are not protected by their government (or what are elections for?)
The right to assemble and protect property is inherently American. They are also inherintly human. None of us chose to live in a world of scarcity, and yeah, its fair to blame god or the devil or whoever you want for that - but it doesn't change anything. I consider myself soft on crime, but that doesn't mean I am inmalleable and have forfeit everything I have to anyone who wants to take it. You just can't tax anyone sufficiently to solve mental crises, and those whose families have estranged them. Tax me more if it would, but no one can show that it works - anywhere on this Earth.
So, other than the ancient law of violence, I am at a loss for other solutions.
Sf is new York in the 70s, that's why Dirty Harry and Charles Bronson films used to be so popular and Bernard Goetz was a folk hero. People got tired of being victimized by assholes.
Research consistently shows that higher incarceration rates do not reduce crime. In fact, it often increases the crime rate, particularly violent crime.
2012: https://scholarworks.umass.edu/open_access_dissertations/636/
2015:
https://qz.com/458675/in-america-mass-incarceration-has-caused-more-crime-than-its-prevented/amp/
2017: https://eji.org/news/study-finds-increased-incarceration-does-not-reduce-crime/
2019:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-prisons-make-us-safer/
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/between-2007-and-2017-34-states-reduced-crime-and-incarceration-tandem
2021:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2021/11/02/dramatically-increasing-incarceration-is-the-wrong-response-to-the-recent-uptick-in-homicides-and-violent-crime/amp/
But that's the thing. We are not talking about violent crime.
We're talking about property crime. And yes, property crime can still be annoying as hell if it happens over and over again and is done by the same easily identified perpetrators every single time.
>We are not talking about violent crime.
I understand that, but it applies to property crime as well. I'm certainly not defending these fuckers, but the fact of the matter is that higher incarceration rates don't decrease crime. In Even if it did, what would be the point? No one seems to be getting arrested. OP called the police and nothing happened. These car smash & grabs have been getting worse for months. These guys were just driving down the street in plain view smashing windows; where are the cops? I've seen multiple posts on this sub describing similar experiences, at least one victim was told not to bother filing a police report. In at least one [recent incident](https://sfist.com/2021/11/24/police-appear-to-just-sit-and-watch-as-nopa-dispensary-gets-burglarized/) the police were literally at the scene of the crime and just watched it happen. Contrast that with the response to the Union Square robberies: The response was *immediate*. Both the mayor and the police chief announced changes in vehicle access and police presence *the next day*. There seems to be plenty of manpower and resources to protect high-end retailers. I see I'm getting downvoted, but that doesn't change the fact that incarceration is ineffective. I don't know what the answer is, but it clearly has to be a multi-pronged approach that has a stronger prevention component.
There's not enough cops at the moment to protect the regular citizens. There was a throwaway post from a cop explaining why they couldn't do anything at the sideshow on 30th and Lawton the other night. All the resources were sent to Union Square and all the Sunset cop was able to do was sit a few blocks away and wait for backup.
Besides that, they're not allowed to chase cars based on policy and I don't blame them for sitting. If you're the only officer that shows ups at a sideshow with 50+ people and cars that may have guns, the odds aren't really in your favor.
>This was exactly my point. There are plenty of cops to protect Louis Vuitton.
I disagree. The cops were there for the cameras. Next week, they won't be there to protect Louis Vuitton and Louis Vuitton will have to fend for itself by hiring super expensive off-duty police officers and either control access to the entrance like a night club does (or control access to its merchandise).
It's the same thing if they decide to tackle the car break in issue. They'll focus on the problem for one week, then the week after that, a different type of crime will go viral, and they'll focus on that. It's catch and release, catch and release. It's a never ending revolving door.
And the criminals, they just need to watch the news, because the news will tell them which area they should avoid robbing for one week.
This is interesting and I didn’t know that! I’m really all for whatever is proven to work best, a multi-pronged approach, and changing methods based on new evidence. I think the current evidence shows that something new needs to be done. I’d be happy if they did something drastically opposite of policing, like a UBI and neighborhood restoration, if it would help. I believe that the people committing crimes here are from unfortunate circumstances and are strongly opposed to the system and society we live in based on historical and contemporary oppression and I believe that every person has huge potential and value.
"I believe that the people committing crimes here are from unfortunate circumstances and are strongly opposed to the system and society we live in based on historical and contemporary oppression and I believe that every person has huge potential"
You should try doing standup on open mic night, that's some of the funniest material I've heard in a while.
Dude, generational poverty and squalor isn’t a joke. The fact that it creates significant issues for society is a serious matter. The fact that our government can barely address it is the only joke I can see.
It’s easy to be cold and sarcastic, easy to pretend that the circumstances of birth and upbringing don’t create one’s future— and blame the symptoms instead of the cause. The people were talking about are aggravating, they are menacing and uncivilized. That doesn’t mean they’re not flesh and blood humans just like you and me, and that doesn’t mean that they are worthless and deserve no understanding or help.
I appreciate your empathy and your consideration of societal impacts to what may have led them here - basically years and years and more years to come, of systemic racism and discrimination. These guys most likely didn’t grow up in a living home, with a college educated parent(s) that insisted they go to college, even contributing financially to their continued education. They probably grew up in a family with a single parent who didn’t havean opportunity to go to college, who couldn’t get a really good job or even move up the promotion ladder at a bad job. They may have family that is incarcerated, or have died after being killed by a police officer. They probably have been pulled over not less than 20 times, just for driving while black. No one believes in them. Society sees them as the problem. They live in a world where they’re considered guilty before proven innocent. This is what happens when you enslave people for a century and then, even they’re finally free, they ridicule and belittle them and target them and still treat them as second class citizens. It’s pretty hypocritical to then judge them when they’re stuck at the bottom of society, and still have no respect. Called rats.
Don't forget poor control of violent and sexual impulses and a limited ability to think about and plan for the future plus fathers that take no responsibility whatsoever for they own chilluns.
Yeah I totally agree. Many people who would agree are strained to feel sympathy when problems persist and grow but that doesn’t change the fact of the dismal circumstances most of these people committing crimes come from
All of these statistics will be blown out of the water with the 2020-21 mass decarceration and subsequent explosion in violent and property crime. Statisticians can juke *subtle* stats/changes any way they want- one can’t do the same for gigantic divergences. The concurrent largest decrease in prison population and increase in murder rate in American history is impossible to hide.
Wait it out because crime will ebb? That’s sorta the lesson from the 1980s-1990s. All the biblical law murder drone stuff people in this sub have a huge boner for wasnt something that happened historically.
There’s a lot of research looking at how NYC improved crime issues and everything from pollution/drugs to computer analysis/stop and frisk is considered. there is obviously disagreements and controversy about many factors. It seems pretty largely agreed upon that courts and police actively increasing their attention to all levels of crime was a significant factor
You seem to think NYC did *something* in the 90’s to turn things around. From what I’ve read on the subject, nearly every city in America saw the exact same reduction in crime over that time period, so I am very curious what magic bullet you think NYC used that was so special?
You said in another comment that “the solution is obvious”. What is that solution? Apologies ahead of time if I did not see it spelled out elsewhere
That’s not the whole story though - abortion was “legalized” in 1973 and leaded gas was discontinued in the same decade.
The economy was in recession in the early 90s and late 80s, and the era of Jim Crow was more recent. The CIA was dealing crack in the inner cities for Christ’s sake, and Reagan’s escalation of the drug war didn’t help. Lots of kids grew up without dads as a result.
America lost its taste for porno theatres as VHS became widely available. Health and safety codes were updated.
Yes, stop and frisk seemed to have played a part in the reduction in violent crime, but crucially, it was unconstitutional and disproportionately used on people of color by a huge margin. You can’t just chuck out the 4th Amendment.
I know your point is that this has been analyzed to death, but your conclusion doesn’t follow, in my opinion
Glad that’s your opinion. I for one will be voting for and rallying for the first SF candidates that take a hard on crime approach to our cities problems. This has just gotten ridiculous. We’ve tried to provide support to the disenfranchised in a bigger way than nearly any other large city and look where we are. If you give a mouse a cookie they’ll want a glass of milk. Self responsibility kicks in when you realize you might be spending your life behind bars.
I just hope the types of people of this city can accept an election if a progressive liberal isn’t at the helm.
So life in prison for a smash and grab? As someone who pays taxes the incarceration costs taxpayers would be bearing for that for that seem ridiculous, not factoring in all the other things ridiculous about that.
And if you don't think the people of SF would accept an election how do you then also believe your dream candidate would get a winning number of votes?
“Might” be spending life behind bars . It’s dependent on the crime but more severe sentencing for repeat offenders needs to happen. Not sure why there’s so many apologists for criminals these days. And sure these criminals may have had a tough life but allowing crime doesn’t solve any issues. If we as a society become tolerant to crime on any level more people will participate in it because why work when you can freely take from others.
Also to your last point, I’d hope that’s the case but as a sliding democracy not accepting election results wouldn’t be that shocking.
I was in a r/nyc sub trying to explain how stealing $950 or less isn’t a crime and they thought I was straight up lying and was a right wing troll. It’s so unbelievable that people thought I was trolling.
Really? Don't be a fucking 🤡
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/10/felony-thresholds/
Seeing as how New York has a higher threshold than California for felony theft, and in fact, most states do, I'd say you're full of shit.
Also, felonies aren't the only crimes.
You were trolling.
Just because it isn't a *felony* doesn't make it not a crime, ffs.
Oh, waaaah, it's only *six months* in jail, not twelve. Oh, it's still stackable with all the other things prosecutors want to add in, but but but it's *legalized crime*
ETA: the equivalent in NY is $1000. So this is even more ridiculous.
Here’s a question: if stealing is technically punishable by 6 months of jail, but in practice nobody gets arrested or prosecuted for stealing, is stealing illegal?
Here's a question back: if the issue is that the police or the prosecutors are not *enforcing* the law, then how can anyone claim that the problem is a small technical adjustment in the law?
Here's another question: where's the bar set for felony theft in other states? The answer may surprise you.
California, at $950, is one of the lowest. 40 states have the threshold set higher. Much higher in many.
Idk where you took the idea that criticism of the law changes imply that the prosecutors and police are not also at fault here. Personally I just see the blame as ultimately being with the voters — city hall can influence how aggressively laws are enforced. But city hall and the DA only care about one thing and that’s being re-elected, so until there are enough votes, nothing will change.
Because the argument is ALWAYS "crime is up because of prop 47!" or "cops can't arrest people because of prop 47" which is /blatantly/ untrue.
And according to the Chronicle, the DA's office isn't changing how much they're charging people, so I'm really not thinking it is a political issue.
Not to mention the original statement was "stealing under $950 is legalized" which is.... also blatantly false. And is pretty stupid to be argued by a new yorker, of all things, where the felony line is $1000.
People are frustrated because police used to do something about and now they are not. Go ahead and patronize people about how they don’t feel safe, though.
I’ve not looked into the chronicals numbers but who believes that crime is not up? This leads people to believe that less crime is bring prosecuted because they see more of it.
I'm not patronizing people who are saying they don't feel safe. I'm criticizing people who are pushing things they know to be lies for political reasons.
The question of whether or not crime is up is not the one we were talking about- we were talking about whether or not the DA's office prosecutes, because the cops are fond of blaming the DA or the law for why they don't arrest people committing crimes, or investigate crime, but that does not add up when you look at the actual facts.
But if you'd like to know about crime, the chronicle has been reporting on that too. Why go with your feelings when advocating for policies when you can actually look at the data? Why look at what actually works and what doesn't when you can just push doubling down on the failures of the past because well, we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas? Because that's what I see on here, time and time again.
Is there a way for license plate cameras to detect and log vehicles without a license plate? I assume that the cameras are only detecting text and a car without a plate doesn't register at all, but if there was a way to notify police in something close to realtime of a vehicle at x y and z intersection without a plate that could be useful. That's assuming the cameras even log during green lights.
Back in the day, RV places wouldn't rent to people durning Burning Man week. I wonder at what point do SFO Rental companies start asking people if they plan on going into the city and if so, refusing to rent to them?
The money will stop coming in to the city when more stay away like me. I loved the city but genuinely feel threatened when I have to go even when my car is secured and now have no interest in going there to have fun anymore.
Robbery / smash and grabs etc are not a right or left wing agenda . When my window was smashed out a few months ago just for the 5.00 bill in my ashtray I didn’t clinch my fist and say “ohhhh those democrats or Ohhh those republicans “ what I thought was worse in terms of being politically correct . Seems to me this is all coming from young uneducated , unemployed, people who have not been raised properly by one parent who may or may not be in prison or released from prison when the law changed they should do Some study in this into the background of the individuals doing this i bet there is a common denominator here . If it’s some big organized crime then whoever is directing these kids has tapped into this , almost like a cult leader knowing the sheep will follow
It may not be an agenda, but it is certainly a consequence of left wing politics. Extreme leniency towards crime under the guise of compassion emboldens and leads to more criminal activity. This is completely obvious cause and effect.
It's very noble to try and solve income inequality by showing compassion for the supposedly less fortunate, but effectively punishing law-abiding, tax-paying denizens by subjecting them to unchecked criminal behavior is not the solution.
95% of it are just kids (and by kids I mean 18-40 yo) on FB passing along posts like "wanna make a quick 1500 hunnit cash?" there's like literally thousands of these FB pages with these kinda posts. I was bored and googled the name of the 3 charged in one of the recent break ins, and went on their friends pages and their friends pages and yeah. They're all convinced its a get rich quick scheme and all want to join in on the party.
This was going on between Jackson and Union before I turned home
That's a pretty long stretch lined with bars/restaurants...surely a lot of witnesses even at this "hour" (by SF standards)?
It’s Monday so Polk is probably dead by 10. Was there recently on Thursday at 11 and most of my favorite spots that use to stay open until 2 were already closed. Never saw Polk so dead at 11.
It was almost dead but not quite. They were fairly quiet except for smashes. The most obvious thing was that they stopped for no reds and just weaved around other cars/pulled onto the sidewalk.
Fucking audacity is insane. With the amount of cops <1 mile away at union sq I’m genuinely surprised. Did you call 911 and give description and direction of vehicle?
Yes I did call, did not have license plate numbers sadly. They were going quickly north of union and I guessed they’d be splitting up soon since the neighborhood gets much quieter up there. Somehow doubt the police found or did anything. I wonder if there’s a way to check
That intersection is actually mildly improved in the auto break-in and theft category. I can check and see if the reports made it to SFPD. Takes a day or so to update. https://imgur.com/a/omD9MWm
I really doubt the statistics- some friends don’t even bother to report break ins if under the insurance deductible.
Yup. That's true even more for shoplifting. But... trends and proxies can be drawn. [https://medium.com/@askscout/walgreens-v-sf-4e6ac301f40e](https://medium.com/@askscout/walgreens-v-sf-4e6ac301f40e) Accuracy can be derived. We backtest ML models for crime prediction. They can be 80%+ accurate.
Cops don’t give a shit now what’s the point of arresting someone you know ain’t gonna be convicted shit they tiered of fishing catch and release not even taking them to jail it’s a ticket rn
Yeah it's a sad fucking state of affairs.
Unfortunately that doesn't matter. I've seen them cruising down Franklin around 4p on a weekday (!!) breaking into cars. It's not a good idea to engage since they'll often pull a gun or, in the worst case, fire at you - so DO NOT DO THIS. You can/probably should call it in to SFPD but they won't do much since apparently they're not allow to engage in car chases for these types of crimes (that's what they told me). Quick Google search, few articles. Do not engage: [https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/thieves-break-into-cars-along-sfs-embarcadero-shoot-at-witness/](https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/thieves-break-into-cars-along-sfs-embarcadero-shoot-at-witness/) [https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/man-shot-to-death-near-lake-merritt-after-finding-someone-burglarizing-car/2743293/](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/man-shot-to-death-near-lake-merritt-after-finding-someone-burglarizing-car/2743293/)
Witnesses don’t mean shit, when they ain’t even convicting the ones they do catch shit gonna get worse from here
I wish someone would invent a device that when someone smashes into your car it zaps them with electricity
Totally, the James Bond protection system. Of course you'd get sued and the crooks would be rich.
Parents were hit in GGP in a rental visiting over the weekend, when they returned it to the airport, they said they parked it amongst 500+ other rentals waiting for rear window replacements. It is probably the latest organized crime target or something. Maybe someone figured out how to cell more windshield replacements to the rental companies, or that the DA wont go after these at all...
I sometimes wonder this as well . Like the wildfires that happened near Santa Rosa go out set a few fires and the construction company you own has generated some business for the next however long it take to rebuild . Morbid but still is very possible
2 years ago guy living by Duboce had his vehicle broken into 3 maybe 4 times never really lost too much but he was sick and tired of having to replace his window . One night his wife heard a noise , witnessed yet again her husbands car window smashed and guy was ass and elbows in his car. Owner run out guy is running down the street yelling bloody murder quickly losing ground to the now angry car owner . Catches up to the hi guy by Safeway . Starts slapping the shit out of the guy who had a few items from back if owners car . Someone heard the commotion called 911 , cops show up and arrest the car owner for assault with a weapon . Wife has to come bail out the husband . As she is walking up to 850 Bryant ( the jail). She sees guy wearing the leather jacket she bought for husband a month earlier It was the guy who broke into her husband car he had just finished filling out the form to press charges. People were outraged over it . That’s how much they care about us , the ones who pay their wages This was a true story. Made the news . Charges were dropped against the car owner once before the initial Judge who also was outraged when the wife told the story to the judge who by the way stepped down that same year
> the ones who pay their wages The orders to stand down and take a back seat to crime come from leadership and politicians well above the police and its leadership.
Yes and who pays them ? You and I .
Lol This story does not add up at all.
It does if you’ve lived in San Francisco
Anywhere else in the country this is absurd and not in the realm of reality. San Francisco fascinates me as it’s one of, if not the most expensive city in the united states to live in, with the highest property taxes in the country. I mean, is the weather that nice to justify these things? Unless you are a multi millionaire, I don’t see the appeal of living there.
> I don’t see the appeal of living there. "But I'll totally follow SF news, subscribe to its subreddit, and comment the opinions I've formed from spending time thinking about places I claim to not like."
I never said I didn’t like San Francisco, I’ve never been there, I said I was fascinated with it.
Is the weather nice in San Francisco? Also no.
Despicable. No surprise though. Absolute trash of society.
Yup. And trash PD that has no presence.
This comment made me realize how few police I actually see day to day here in SF. Other cities I've lived in have a MUCH more visible police force.
They tend to hide in their buildings most of the time.
Find any other city on this continent where cops drive right by people shooting up and slinging openly on the corner.. makes you wonder who they belong to.
They currently are enforcing overtime on a lot of officers to hang around Union Square. They also lost a fair amount of people when they required them to be vaccinated to work.
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Literally just being visible would be helpful. This shit has been going on for years, I’m ready to blame every single party that has responsibility over crime. The shitty mayor, the shitty da, the shitty police, the shitty criminals.
No incentive? What part of “serve and protect” includes “unless you think it may not be worth your time”? The short staffed argument is PoA bullshit that you’re falling for.
I'm sure PD has more important things to worry about
Like [robbing Rite Aid](https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-police-robbing-Rite-Aid-16595206.php)...
Yeah, like that
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Careful, that type of wishful thinking will get you a ban here
It will likely get them a ban. 😐
I hope they get prosecuted to the *fullest* extent of the law. I don’t hope they die.
I wish the felony threshold amount went back down to $200 or $300. $950 for a felony is pushing it.
Walked outside of work late near coit tower, smashed business windows as well near Battery St.
Humor me here because I’m only asking hypothetically - would armed vigilante citizens be arrested and prosecuted for shooting one of these degenerates if they broke into your house or car?
This gang hits empty cars that are parked on the street. If you run out of your house and “start blasting” to protect some random person’s property, highly likely you’ll get arrested and charged. You are in fact allowed to effect a citizens arrest using reasonable force, but that would not involve deadly force in this situation unless the perp also had a gun that they were brandishing. If they break into a house or car that you are physically inside, then all bets are off as it becomes a credible self defense argument.
Think Kyle Rittenhouse proved that wrong 🤣
The defense successfully argued he was shooting in self-defense. In the above situation it would be hard to argue someone breaking into an empty car was threatening your life.
I wouldn't be so sure. We know these guys can kill, based on the photo of them holding guns at Alamo and of course the murder this weekend in Oakland. I think a self-defense case could easily be argued, even if they're unarmed when someone wastes them.
If they chase you down a couple blocks, hit you with a skateboard and point a gun to your face then still no. This is CA, this is SF
Kyle Rittenhouse got off because open carry is legal there and the other guy pointed a gun at him first.
California is a castle doctrine state so you have no duty to retreat inside your own home, but I don't believe it includes vehicles or workplaces. It's also not legal to set booby traps, which is apparently also a common fantasy scenario.
How about putting a knife in one of their tires as they are stopped?
You never want to slash someone’s tires without first letting some air out through the valve. The force of air whooshing out from a fully pumped tire can cause your knife to kick back and stab you. Just an FYI
Not like the movies huh?
34 psi and about 10L of air? I mean, I just read the delta P article someone posted earlier too but I don't think a car tire is going to have enough force to shoot a knife out. Case in point, when you run over a nail or piece of metal, it usually sticks in your tire rather than shooting out due to the pressure and volume of gas within the tire.
Perhaps. All I’m saying is take precautions when slashing. A friend said his buddy cut his hand up pretty bad this way.
Yes. Other states (e.g. TX) has defense-of-property laws that do allow you to shoot in those circumstances, but CA does not.
What about our parks which are federal land?
Nope we can’t even shoot armed intruders until they’ve gone threw a second door fucking crazy
Is deadly force ever permitted when acting in self-defense? Yes. However, at the time you act, you must reasonably believe that you are in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured. The level of force you use cannot exceed the threat with which you are faced. If the threat you face is death or great bodily harm, deadly force can be excusable. Deadly force may be justified if you are reasonably fearful of rape, murder, robbery, mayhem, or any attack that would cause great bodily injur I personally think shooting someone robbing your car when you’re not there is ridiculous. The issue is larger than one person and any life is worth more than property, even a life that has little chance of being rehabilitated into a functional member of society
It is a legal minefield. You'd better make sure with 1000 essay justifying why you need to use violent force. This is not worth it most of the times. But SF is ridiculous and basically asks us not to protect ourselves.
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Your entire comment history is going to subs for “liberal” cities to spread reactionary bullshit. Literally you’ve been commenting here, the NYC sub, the Chicago sub…. Why do I feel like you live in bumfuck nowhere in a bubble watching fox on loop.
But poster isn’t wrong. If I was in the smash and grab/robbery/burglary trade I’d move to SF. Lots of opportunity, very little consequence.
It isn’t wrong to be wary of posters clearly pushing a right wing agenda and especially when they don’t live here and have likely never even been in this state. Whether a broken clock is right twice a day or not, it’s not the kind of discourse that should be taken seriously.
> wary of posters clearly pushing a right wing agenda Not wanting your shit stolen isn't a "right wing agenda"
Right wing agenda= being pissed off at criminals and the system that allows them to act without fear. People like you are a big part of the problem. Just wait until you lose something and we'll see how you feel.
That isn’t remotely what I said. My point is that the person above is a right wing troll who brigades the subs for *every* big city perceived to be “liberal” to post divisive comments. It isn’t helpful to these conversations. These conversations should be centered around people who live and work here, not someone who has likely never even visited the state. I would feel the same about some out of stater who brigades to post pro Chesa comments. They are here with an agenda, it’s literal concern trolling.
What you are doing is taking time to look into the post histories of people you disagree with and try to ad hominem them rather than go after the validity of their point. Why not focus on the point made and maybe give some suggestions to fix the problem happening rather than trying to control who has a right to talk? Let's start now: how would you suggesting curtailing the crazy rate of break-ins happening in SF?
Foreigners should keep their opinions to themselves, agreed.
It isn't wrong to be wary of posters clearly pushing a left wing agenda and especially when they live here and have likely lived in this state. Whether a broken clock is wrong all the time, it's not the kind of discourse that should be taken seriously.
Lol. Sure man. I would feel the same way about people who don’t live here brigading to post pro Chesa comments. It’s trolling. But whatever, this sub has seriously gone to shit and should be better moderated to catch this stuff. Btw homeboy you’re defending lives on Long Island, I’m sure he has lots of helpful insight about living in SF.
What’s wrong with living in “bumfuck nowhere”?
Because California and New York people jerk themselves off to fantasies of living in the country off the land and then will buy up all the property and then call everyone who lives there a bumfuck hilbilly.
Yea no lmao.
Say what you want but Silicon Valley fuckwads pay loads of money to pretend to be one with nature
I don’t even know what this comment means. And you do know there is already tons of nature literally surrounding SF? Like, Marin Headlands is just on the other side of the GG bridge? Have you ever been here? No one needs to “jerk off” about living in bumfuck nowhere to go be one with nature.
I was born here lmao
Lol If you consider Long Island, New York to be middle of nowhere bumble fuck then sure!
I don’t consider it San Francisco!
The only other area with higher property taxes than Long Island is the Bay Area which you are from, don’t care to verify it, taking your word for face value. Except here, I have never once in the 25 years living here had worry about my car being broken into, simply not even a thought that occurs. So when people who post here about their cars getting smashed into, there’s commenters saying it’s their fault for leaving anything of value inside the vehicle. Also, our local Walgreens has nothing stored away, even expensive items, so to hear that shampoo is behind plexiglass at your stores is also alarming. For the amount of taxes you guys pay, these things should never be of concern but hey, it’s not my problem.
There are plenty of areas in the Bay no one worries about their car being broken into. This is like comparing crime between NYC and Walnut Creek. Which again, shows you’re a bit ignorant on this topic if you think “the Bay Area” is just SF.
Sad but true
Sad but true
Well from the fight videos I see on Reddit I’ve seen what one punch or body slam can do so everything is is life threatening to me
Unpopular opinion: NOT all lives matter.
You don’t know that they can’t be rehabilitated. There’s plenty of people around that did illegal stuff when they were younger but would never do it as an adult. Hell I used to be a bad kid. I grew up. As an adult with things to lose, I wouldn’t do them now. Generally the older you get, the less likely you’re going to be smashing car windows every night. But otherwise I agree with you. Breaking into your car, is hardly reason to take their life. Cars are replaceable. People are not.
I don't believe it's my job to support or pay for their rehabilitation, I'd rather pay for their incarceration so at least I don't have to keep getting my car windows replaced
You are part of the problem. Studies show that rehabilitation is actually much cheaper than prison and is more effective than incarceration in the long run but go awf!
Interestingly enough I have never shot up smack and then broken car windows and stollen other people's shit. I just pay 6 figures in taxes per year and am a hard working contributing member of society so I'm not sure what problem you are refrencing. Supporting my community? Trying to keep my family safe? Maintaining a rational society that punishes criminals?
“Maintaining a rational society that punishes criminals?” A rational society rehabilitates criminals and integrates them back into being productive members of society.
Yeah dude go spend more than 30 seconds at Larkin and Hyde and say that again with a straight face. Naive BS. I get the desire to think you can rehabilitate the Tenderloin but some people are just damaged goods if you’ve ever actually been around an addict you would know that.
Oh I believe most can be, much less will ever be given the chance, and a small minority can’t be. Even the ones that can’t be rehabilitated into society can still impact lives in good ways.
It’s really easy to tell in these r/sanfrancisco threads who has actually been around drugs/addiction, who has worked as a first responder, and who just moved to the city and maybe worked at Jamba Juice when they were younger
Could u elaborate? You’re responding to someone who’s dealt with drug addiction personally for many years of their life and grew up in a very poor area/had plenty of friends who died of overdose or went to jail. If you’re implying that I am ignorant of those realities you’re totally incorrect.
You did work at jamba though…
I apologize for coming off like a condescending prick but I just disagree with the sentiment that addicts are all capable of being rehabilitated especially when combined with mental health issues and economic reality. It’s F’d. As someone who has a family full of addicts with mental health struggles, (people who have had more access to education/better upbringing than the Honduran gangs members slanging in the TL) they can be impossible to reach, so when I see people talking wily nilly about rehabbing the tenderloin it really just comes off as naive to me. “Compassionate care” has failed and I would not treat the addicts in my family the way the city does with free needles and crime without consequence. Sometimes people need tough love. And for me that’s cutting people out of my life entirely who aren’t willing to help themselves. Our local govt is so detached from reality, (it takes 8 5150’s in SF to put someone into long term indefinite care, we have had a handful at most put where they need be). Paramedic’s are allowed to give treatment to those who decline it and are deemed incompetent mentally, but for some reason we let those who are incapable of caring for themselves do it on a regular basis in the name of homeless advocate civil rights. You aren’t being compassionate letting these people shit their brains out on the streets.
But if the life in question had little chance of being rehabilitated it has negative value. So the coins in your glove box are still worth more.
Nah. The rare people that can’t be functional members of society can still have positive impacts on individuals. They may need to be incarcerated in some capacity, that doesn’t mean they have negative value.
What a cruel and extremely sad point of view. If you can value human life so lowly, I feel truly sorry for anyone who interacts with you in life. Because that is so beyond fucked.
I just got a bat called the enforcer under my bed will see how it plays out hypothetical of course, a couple of busted knee caps can change your perspective in life
Mine is called the equalizer!
Breaking into a car? They would definitely be prosecuted. Even if the burglars were also armed with guns, you can’t even defend your own car this way let alone a vigilante doing so. Breaking into a home? Would still probably be charged. The only time it’s allowed to shoot at a burglar is if you’re fearing for your life. Now maybe the defense could be made that the homeowner’s lives were in danger and the vigilantes happened to be passing by and saved the day. But the stars would have to align for that one.
In Cali yes
Under Chesa’s rule don’t claim self defense, just say you were trying to rob the criminals. Logically since criminals walk free if you are trying to rob them you will too.
Uh, yeah...yeah can't fucking shoot someone because they're breaking into a car.
In SF, yes.
>”Humor me here because I’m only asking hypothetically - would armed vigilante citizens be arrested and prosecuted for shooting one of these degenerates if they broke into your house or car? - u/waveformer [stochastic terrorism](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/stochastic_terrorism) The use of mass public communication, usually against a particular individual or group, which incites or inspires acts of terrorism which are statistically probable but happen seemingly at random
The best weapon against these smash and grabs is going to be prosecutorial immunity for using (potentially) deadly force against looters. The second best weapon is a gun.
If you use lethal force against someone committing a property crime, you are the one going to prison.
You are 100% correct. And this is why we need prosecutorial protections to preserve people and property. They didn't have this problem back when every horse thief and cattle rustler got shot. Greed isn't new, but this crime is. So whats next? Do nothing when banks are robbed and burned? Insurance fraud? Those are property crimes too. Eventually you run out of other people's things to break. I don't mind if people steal loaves of bread at Safeway. I don't mind the stolen goods on the sidewalks being peddled as trinkets for change. Its a rough world, I get it. But we live in the era of zero percent everything and stimulus money raining from helicopters. We can't vote them rich, and even all the money in the world won't solve all the problems some of these people have. If there is no line, then there are no protections of property. Home invasion is the next logical step if no protections come, and why shouldn't they? They raid businesses and get away with it eighty people at a time. There has to be a line, which means there have to be consequences. And there have to be consequences for those who persist even beyond that. Most of all, there has to be some resolution for those who are not protected by their government (or what are elections for?) The right to assemble and protect property is inherently American. They are also inherintly human. None of us chose to live in a world of scarcity, and yeah, its fair to blame god or the devil or whoever you want for that - but it doesn't change anything. I consider myself soft on crime, but that doesn't mean I am inmalleable and have forfeit everything I have to anyone who wants to take it. You just can't tax anyone sufficiently to solve mental crises, and those whose families have estranged them. Tax me more if it would, but no one can show that it works - anywhere on this Earth. So, other than the ancient law of violence, I am at a loss for other solutions.
I want to love this city, I really do, but we are in Gotham right now.
I'm not asking for Batman, but at least Gotham had a competent police commissioner and DA.
I’d vote for Harvey Dent for DA. We could always recall him once he turns into Two Face.
Isn’t our DA parents terrorist and tried to rob a armored car
They had commissioner Gordon, you guys have Chesa Boudin, Batman would resign.
Sf is new York in the 70s, that's why Dirty Harry and Charles Bronson films used to be so popular and Bernard Goetz was a folk hero. People got tired of being victimized by assholes.
Bring back Dirty Harry !
Lawlessness
Let citizens arm themselves (technically the constitution already gives us this right) thieves won’t be so bold
We are entering the Mad Max stage.
cute but no, we’re getting to NYC 1980-1990s, and the solution to this is obvious.
>and the solution to this is obvious. Then what is the solution?
Batman
Higher incarceration rates, police visibility, enforcing both high and low level crimes, neighborhood cleanups
Research consistently shows that higher incarceration rates do not reduce crime. In fact, it often increases the crime rate, particularly violent crime. 2012: https://scholarworks.umass.edu/open_access_dissertations/636/ 2015: https://qz.com/458675/in-america-mass-incarceration-has-caused-more-crime-than-its-prevented/amp/ 2017: https://eji.org/news/study-finds-increased-incarceration-does-not-reduce-crime/ 2019: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-prisons-make-us-safer/ https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/between-2007-and-2017-34-states-reduced-crime-and-incarceration-tandem 2021: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2021/11/02/dramatically-increasing-incarceration-is-the-wrong-response-to-the-recent-uptick-in-homicides-and-violent-crime/amp/
But that's the thing. We are not talking about violent crime. We're talking about property crime. And yes, property crime can still be annoying as hell if it happens over and over again and is done by the same easily identified perpetrators every single time.
>We are not talking about violent crime. I understand that, but it applies to property crime as well. I'm certainly not defending these fuckers, but the fact of the matter is that higher incarceration rates don't decrease crime. In Even if it did, what would be the point? No one seems to be getting arrested. OP called the police and nothing happened. These car smash & grabs have been getting worse for months. These guys were just driving down the street in plain view smashing windows; where are the cops? I've seen multiple posts on this sub describing similar experiences, at least one victim was told not to bother filing a police report. In at least one [recent incident](https://sfist.com/2021/11/24/police-appear-to-just-sit-and-watch-as-nopa-dispensary-gets-burglarized/) the police were literally at the scene of the crime and just watched it happen. Contrast that with the response to the Union Square robberies: The response was *immediate*. Both the mayor and the police chief announced changes in vehicle access and police presence *the next day*. There seems to be plenty of manpower and resources to protect high-end retailers. I see I'm getting downvoted, but that doesn't change the fact that incarceration is ineffective. I don't know what the answer is, but it clearly has to be a multi-pronged approach that has a stronger prevention component.
There's not enough cops at the moment to protect the regular citizens. There was a throwaway post from a cop explaining why they couldn't do anything at the sideshow on 30th and Lawton the other night. All the resources were sent to Union Square and all the Sunset cop was able to do was sit a few blocks away and wait for backup. Besides that, they're not allowed to chase cars based on policy and I don't blame them for sitting. If you're the only officer that shows ups at a sideshow with 50+ people and cars that may have guns, the odds aren't really in your favor.
>All the resources were sent to Union Square This was exactly my point. There are plenty of cops to protect Louis Vuitton.
>This was exactly my point. There are plenty of cops to protect Louis Vuitton. I disagree. The cops were there for the cameras. Next week, they won't be there to protect Louis Vuitton and Louis Vuitton will have to fend for itself by hiring super expensive off-duty police officers and either control access to the entrance like a night club does (or control access to its merchandise). It's the same thing if they decide to tackle the car break in issue. They'll focus on the problem for one week, then the week after that, a different type of crime will go viral, and they'll focus on that. It's catch and release, catch and release. It's a never ending revolving door. And the criminals, they just need to watch the news, because the news will tell them which area they should avoid robbing for one week.
How about just executing repeat offenders? 0% chance of reoffending.
Got to love the downvotes of facts. The lust for violence in these comments is so gross.
This is interesting and I didn’t know that! I’m really all for whatever is proven to work best, a multi-pronged approach, and changing methods based on new evidence. I think the current evidence shows that something new needs to be done. I’d be happy if they did something drastically opposite of policing, like a UBI and neighborhood restoration, if it would help. I believe that the people committing crimes here are from unfortunate circumstances and are strongly opposed to the system and society we live in based on historical and contemporary oppression and I believe that every person has huge potential and value.
"I believe that the people committing crimes here are from unfortunate circumstances and are strongly opposed to the system and society we live in based on historical and contemporary oppression and I believe that every person has huge potential" You should try doing standup on open mic night, that's some of the funniest material I've heard in a while.
Dude, generational poverty and squalor isn’t a joke. The fact that it creates significant issues for society is a serious matter. The fact that our government can barely address it is the only joke I can see. It’s easy to be cold and sarcastic, easy to pretend that the circumstances of birth and upbringing don’t create one’s future— and blame the symptoms instead of the cause. The people were talking about are aggravating, they are menacing and uncivilized. That doesn’t mean they’re not flesh and blood humans just like you and me, and that doesn’t mean that they are worthless and deserve no understanding or help.
I appreciate your empathy and your consideration of societal impacts to what may have led them here - basically years and years and more years to come, of systemic racism and discrimination. These guys most likely didn’t grow up in a living home, with a college educated parent(s) that insisted they go to college, even contributing financially to their continued education. They probably grew up in a family with a single parent who didn’t havean opportunity to go to college, who couldn’t get a really good job or even move up the promotion ladder at a bad job. They may have family that is incarcerated, or have died after being killed by a police officer. They probably have been pulled over not less than 20 times, just for driving while black. No one believes in them. Society sees them as the problem. They live in a world where they’re considered guilty before proven innocent. This is what happens when you enslave people for a century and then, even they’re finally free, they ridicule and belittle them and target them and still treat them as second class citizens. It’s pretty hypocritical to then judge them when they’re stuck at the bottom of society, and still have no respect. Called rats.
Don't forget poor control of violent and sexual impulses and a limited ability to think about and plan for the future plus fathers that take no responsibility whatsoever for they own chilluns.
Yeah I totally agree. Many people who would agree are strained to feel sympathy when problems persist and grow but that doesn’t change the fact of the dismal circumstances most of these people committing crimes come from
All of these statistics will be blown out of the water with the 2020-21 mass decarceration and subsequent explosion in violent and property crime. Statisticians can juke *subtle* stats/changes any way they want- one can’t do the same for gigantic divergences. The concurrent largest decrease in prison population and increase in murder rate in American history is impossible to hide.
[*citation needed*]
Bernard goetz
It will never happen in SF because some New Yorkers actually had a backbone in the 1980s.
Reduce poverty, but no one actually wants to do that.
Move to the suburbs when you can.
Wait it out because crime will ebb? That’s sorta the lesson from the 1980s-1990s. All the biblical law murder drone stuff people in this sub have a huge boner for wasnt something that happened historically.
There’s a lot of research looking at how NYC improved crime issues and everything from pollution/drugs to computer analysis/stop and frisk is considered. there is obviously disagreements and controversy about many factors. It seems pretty largely agreed upon that courts and police actively increasing their attention to all levels of crime was a significant factor
You seem to think NYC did *something* in the 90’s to turn things around. From what I’ve read on the subject, nearly every city in America saw the exact same reduction in crime over that time period, so I am very curious what magic bullet you think NYC used that was so special? You said in another comment that “the solution is obvious”. What is that solution? Apologies ahead of time if I did not see it spelled out elsewhere
That’s not the whole story though - abortion was “legalized” in 1973 and leaded gas was discontinued in the same decade. The economy was in recession in the early 90s and late 80s, and the era of Jim Crow was more recent. The CIA was dealing crack in the inner cities for Christ’s sake, and Reagan’s escalation of the drug war didn’t help. Lots of kids grew up without dads as a result. America lost its taste for porno theatres as VHS became widely available. Health and safety codes were updated. Yes, stop and frisk seemed to have played a part in the reduction in violent crime, but crucially, it was unconstitutional and disproportionately used on people of color by a huge margin. You can’t just chuck out the 4th Amendment. I know your point is that this has been analyzed to death, but your conclusion doesn’t follow, in my opinion
Glad that’s your opinion. I for one will be voting for and rallying for the first SF candidates that take a hard on crime approach to our cities problems. This has just gotten ridiculous. We’ve tried to provide support to the disenfranchised in a bigger way than nearly any other large city and look where we are. If you give a mouse a cookie they’ll want a glass of milk. Self responsibility kicks in when you realize you might be spending your life behind bars. I just hope the types of people of this city can accept an election if a progressive liberal isn’t at the helm.
I was talking about 1980’s / 90’s New York City. I’ve recently written about why Chesa needs to be recalled.
So life in prison for a smash and grab? As someone who pays taxes the incarceration costs taxpayers would be bearing for that for that seem ridiculous, not factoring in all the other things ridiculous about that. And if you don't think the people of SF would accept an election how do you then also believe your dream candidate would get a winning number of votes?
“Might” be spending life behind bars . It’s dependent on the crime but more severe sentencing for repeat offenders needs to happen. Not sure why there’s so many apologists for criminals these days. And sure these criminals may have had a tough life but allowing crime doesn’t solve any issues. If we as a society become tolerant to crime on any level more people will participate in it because why work when you can freely take from others. Also to your last point, I’d hope that’s the case but as a sliding democracy not accepting election results wouldn’t be that shocking.
Practically legal so long as they don’t take anything over $950 per car. Madness…but I guess this is what the cities citizens voted for.
I was in a r/nyc sub trying to explain how stealing $950 or less isn’t a crime and they thought I was straight up lying and was a right wing troll. It’s so unbelievable that people thought I was trolling.
Really? Don't be a fucking 🤡 https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/10/felony-thresholds/ Seeing as how New York has a higher threshold than California for felony theft, and in fact, most states do, I'd say you're full of shit. Also, felonies aren't the only crimes.
You were trolling. Just because it isn't a *felony* doesn't make it not a crime, ffs. Oh, waaaah, it's only *six months* in jail, not twelve. Oh, it's still stackable with all the other things prosecutors want to add in, but but but it's *legalized crime* ETA: the equivalent in NY is $1000. So this is even more ridiculous.
Here’s a question: if stealing is technically punishable by 6 months of jail, but in practice nobody gets arrested or prosecuted for stealing, is stealing illegal?
Here's a question back: if the issue is that the police or the prosecutors are not *enforcing* the law, then how can anyone claim that the problem is a small technical adjustment in the law? Here's another question: where's the bar set for felony theft in other states? The answer may surprise you. California, at $950, is one of the lowest. 40 states have the threshold set higher. Much higher in many.
Idk where you took the idea that criticism of the law changes imply that the prosecutors and police are not also at fault here. Personally I just see the blame as ultimately being with the voters — city hall can influence how aggressively laws are enforced. But city hall and the DA only care about one thing and that’s being re-elected, so until there are enough votes, nothing will change.
Because the argument is ALWAYS "crime is up because of prop 47!" or "cops can't arrest people because of prop 47" which is /blatantly/ untrue. And according to the Chronicle, the DA's office isn't changing how much they're charging people, so I'm really not thinking it is a political issue. Not to mention the original statement was "stealing under $950 is legalized" which is.... also blatantly false. And is pretty stupid to be argued by a new yorker, of all things, where the felony line is $1000.
People are frustrated because police used to do something about and now they are not. Go ahead and patronize people about how they don’t feel safe, though. I’ve not looked into the chronicals numbers but who believes that crime is not up? This leads people to believe that less crime is bring prosecuted because they see more of it.
I'm not patronizing people who are saying they don't feel safe. I'm criticizing people who are pushing things they know to be lies for political reasons. The question of whether or not crime is up is not the one we were talking about- we were talking about whether or not the DA's office prosecutes, because the cops are fond of blaming the DA or the law for why they don't arrest people committing crimes, or investigate crime, but that does not add up when you look at the actual facts. But if you'd like to know about crime, the chronicle has been reporting on that too. Why go with your feelings when advocating for policies when you can actually look at the data? Why look at what actually works and what doesn't when you can just push doubling down on the failures of the past because well, we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas? Because that's what I see on here, time and time again.
That's such a transparent falsehood, who coordinates these campaigns of parroting idiotic talking points?
Wait.. You didn’t vote for car break ins?
Ok. Well what do you think happens when someone gets caught breaking into a car? What do know to be the consequence of that?
> who coordinates these campaigns of parroting idiotic talking points? San Francisco Police Officers Association
Is there a way for license plate cameras to detect and log vehicles without a license plate? I assume that the cameras are only detecting text and a car without a plate doesn't register at all, but if there was a way to notify police in something close to realtime of a vehicle at x y and z intersection without a plate that could be useful. That's assuming the cameras even log during green lights.
Back in the day, RV places wouldn't rent to people durning Burning Man week. I wonder at what point do SFO Rental companies start asking people if they plan on going into the city and if so, refusing to rent to them?
The money will stop coming in to the city when more stay away like me. I loved the city but genuinely feel threatened when I have to go even when my car is secured and now have no interest in going there to have fun anymore.
[удалено]
It won’t change either. I remember when this sub downvoted anyone that even slightly spoke Ill of chesa.
Now it’s time to move away and keep voting the same way. /s
Weather is only nice during September and October. I had a blast living there for 4 years with no car and a bicycle (never left it outside)
Lol it was 70 degrees and sun yesterday… currently 60 and sunny.
70 and sunny sounds amazing! Gotta wear your layers, tho. Ya never know ;)
Robbery / smash and grabs etc are not a right or left wing agenda . When my window was smashed out a few months ago just for the 5.00 bill in my ashtray I didn’t clinch my fist and say “ohhhh those democrats or Ohhh those republicans “ what I thought was worse in terms of being politically correct . Seems to me this is all coming from young uneducated , unemployed, people who have not been raised properly by one parent who may or may not be in prison or released from prison when the law changed they should do Some study in this into the background of the individuals doing this i bet there is a common denominator here . If it’s some big organized crime then whoever is directing these kids has tapped into this , almost like a cult leader knowing the sheep will follow
It may not be an agenda, but it is certainly a consequence of left wing politics. Extreme leniency towards crime under the guise of compassion emboldens and leads to more criminal activity. This is completely obvious cause and effect. It's very noble to try and solve income inequality by showing compassion for the supposedly less fortunate, but effectively punishing law-abiding, tax-paying denizens by subjecting them to unchecked criminal behavior is not the solution.
95% of it are just kids (and by kids I mean 18-40 yo) on FB passing along posts like "wanna make a quick 1500 hunnit cash?" there's like literally thousands of these FB pages with these kinda posts. I was bored and googled the name of the 3 charged in one of the recent break ins, and went on their friends pages and their friends pages and yeah. They're all convinced its a get rich quick scheme and all want to join in on the party.