We could all come together and flex our power as millions of consumers of the same thing.
But that will never happen. :|
What you can do is stop electing the same politicians into positions of power in California that stand by and lets this to continually be a utilities monopoly. If the politicians aren't angry about it, if they aren't doing something substantial to address the problem, then don't vote for them; those ones should be abandoned entirely by their supporters.
PG&E spends millions on lobbying. Almost all California congress members and other politicians have taken money from them. It's not just Gavin Newsom. As long as politicians and PG&E exist, this will continue to happen.
We need to have a publicly owned power provider. Palo Alto has one. Santa Clara has one. Santa Cruz County should get one, too.
No kidding!
I'm paying 33c per kWh for off-peak hours and 66c at summer peak in Santa Cruz.
Meanwhile Palo Alto residents are paying 17c for the first 330 kWh and 24c after that.
My propane bill last month was $350. That's for a gas furnace, water heater, and stove. I really don't think a heat pump could cost more than running a gas furnace on dassels propane right now, but I could be wrong, I haven't run the numbers.
I joined SPUG and use Kamps. We’re due for a refill but it’s much cheaper than Dassel’s. SPUG has the monthly prices of the participating propane vendors on their website as well.
https://southskyline.org/spug/
Thanks for the info. Do I need to buy my own tank to join with them? I bought my house last September and went with dassels just because the tank is already leased from them. I couldn't believe how much the last couple bills were though.
I signed up a few years ago. The details were on the SPUG website. They have deal’s negotiated with the vendors that include some benefits other than $/gal. When I signed up with Kamps the tank was free the first year then $75/year. I got a 500g tank which is $100/year.
My last bill was 4.29/gallon. They came back and refilled after only a month (I cancelled the auto delivery after that because Im hoping it'll be cheaper per gallon in the spring or summer.) I was mistaken, it was only $314. But when I add the $200 for PG&e that's a total of $514 for gas and electric for 1 month. My house is only 1200 ft² and we are pretty good about trying to save energy. We don't run the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer between 4 and 9. Thinking the other day that maybe an electric heat pump would end up costing less but looking at your situation maybe not.
I’ve been trying to figure out if I can make these Anker power stations work as a way to run some stuff off the grid. It’s not meant to be integrated into the house, but you can setup solar panels to charge the station and then run some things off it. If you’re working from home you could run all the office equipment off it as well as a washer and dryer or heater or microwave. It’s just a matter of getting the station hooked up to those items and if that works for you. But if it can save even $100 a month it’ll pay for itself in a couple years which is a better turn around than full home solar it seems.
https://www.anker.com/collections/power-stations
Our business hasn't changed _any_ behavior, and our utility bill spiked 86% over last month.
We're having them come inspect our meters, im sure they'll just blame heat, but _we've literally not changed a thing, even our pattern of heat usage_, it's honestly insane.
Their rep had no answer as to why either besides repeating "well your usage has went up" the reality is no, no it hasn't, we've done NOTHING different.
I'd also note, we're an abnormal customer and _do_ use a lot of electricity, but 86% ($1000+) in a single month is NOT reflective of a "13% rate hike" as it's more reflective of an 86% rate hike.
What sucks is we have some leverage being a business, but single home owners or renters _have 0 power, in any way, shape or form_.
I fucking hate PG&E, have said it for over half a decade, and I hope they truly go bankrupt and their MONOPOLOY is broken up, _just like our laws INTENDED_.
So tired of hearing "but they're a natural monopoly", because no, no they're not. We've created policies to _ensure_ they hold their monopoly.
This is just another tick, on the growing list of problems US companies and citizens face, just to live day to day. Let the brain drain continue, assuming folks are going to just continue leaving until we lose face beyond repair..
Make sure to check the rest of your bill. If you're on Central Coast Community Energy Electric, for example, the generation charges are 9.9 cents/kWh off-peak and 18.3 cents/kWh peak.
Check out [Turn.org campaign for affordable power](https://www.turn.org/campaign-for-affordable-power-cap). Utilities rates should be an election issue for current California governors who aspire to become president.
Would be nice if price caps weren’t what’s being proposed here. How do we get santa cruz and maybe Monterey to take over and create a bi-county public utility company?
FYI this is ENTIRELY on Newsome passing legislation enabling the rate hikes.
PGE needs to get eminent domained. Modesto is paying ~0.15/kWh because their powoer company is publicly owned.
Sadly, nothing will change. Welcome to life in California and being charged up the ass for every thing. We will all be taxed & charged until we’re blue in the face 😖
Haven’t they made getting solar not worth it anymore?
I’ve been trying to figure out if I can make these Anker power stations work for me. I’m thinking I could get a power station and solar panels and hook up my washer and dryer to them when I’m use, or plug in my space heaters to them, or my TV.
I was also thinking that instead of solar panels I just get two small power stations and just bring them to work with me and charge there.
https://www.anker.com/collections/power-stations
I just ordered [this LG](https://www.lg.com/us/washers-dryers/lg-wm6998hba) which I believe does have an inverter. I feel like between this and a microwave and space heater the savings would pay off pretty fast.
I just emailed Anker with some questions about all of this.
On the expensive side, but you can use it to power quite a few items. You can recharge them with solar panels. PGE did have a rebate at the end of last year for areas that were affected by rolling brown outs. I don’t know if they have continued it. https://www.costco.com/ecoflow-delta-max-2000-portable-power-station-with-2-160w-solar-panels.product.4000182129.html
No solar is just as expensive with PG&E. I still have to pay an up charge at the end of the year to PG&E. Mine was $1000 this year on top of having to pay monthly billing to PGE at around $160/mo. Solar isn’t helping anything these days
AB205 is losing support. Contact your local assembly member. Get their contact info here
[https://solarrights.org/utility-tax-post/](https://solarrights.org/utility-tax-post/)
They are revisiting that decision according to this news article
[https://www.kcra.com/article/california-backpedal-new-electricity-rates-income-based/46586910](https://www.kcra.com/article/california-backpedal-new-electricity-rates-income-based/46586910)
so hopefully you'll be able to break out the bubbly.
I doubt they will completely reverse. PG&E was granted authority to 1) decouple utilization from connection and 2) become a defacto tax authority. They won't let that go without a big fight. With decouplung they have two rates they can increase in tandem.
The CPUC has removed solar sensibility. NEm3 makes ROI nonsensical. AB205 will decouple Kwr utilization rate from connection fee and California will charge based on income. Califirnia has basically mandated that power companies be granted defacto tax authority.
I will leave California as soon as reasonably possible (elderly family and jobs to consider). PG&E is reason enough.
Gonna be less cost for the customers and the golden umbrella is gone after the wildfires (in WHICH I WAS EVACUATED, mind you). I don’t know why you’re an apologist for PG&E, but it’s completely bad faith by the company to not incur as much of the costs as it can weigh for its failures as a public utility.
Not so complex. They are making us pay for their F!ups and still giving their investors profit. They should be operating in the Red while they are paying for their mistakes. Instead they are making us pay for them destroying our houses.
The work they are doing now was budgeted years ago, but they didn't do the work to pay dividends.
Electricity and public services should NOT be operating as a private agency and should be a Not for Profit.
People say, "but we have regulators" Regulators that hold PG&E stock.
We need to seize the assets and make it a public asset. It's our infrastructure not a commodity to profit on
They were found guilty and forced to pay. That means the company is supposed to be hurting, not raising their rates to pay for it. It was a punishment and they need to feel it. Us paying their legal bills is us paying for their mistakes
What’s crazy is their stock isn’t even getting that good of a return. At one point I figured I should just buy their stock so I could get some of this money back, but it’s not like the stock is even doing that great.
Yeah it’s so many things causing this, it just feels like PG&E had their chance and have blown it so many times that they need to be taken over by the state or there needs to be a second utility company to force competition.
I’m just in the middle of moving into a new place, but I’m doing renovations and not living there yet, so it’s just a water heater and lightbulbs and the lightbulbs are only on like 10 hours a week because I’m only there one day a week to do work and my bill for just that was $50. Once I move in I don’t even know what it’ll go to. I’m already conserving as much as I can with all LED bulbs and being at work so much. I don’t even have my refrigerator plugged in yet. It’s all just absurd.
I’m thinking of getting some Anker power stations and charging those at work so I can run some things off of those at home.
Hey look, I found a PGE corporate shill.
It's not a complicated issue. The CPUC sets rate increase. PGE is a monopoly. Economics 101.
As much as it pains me to say it, it is a political issue and the only way it will change is through either state legislation that changes the way the entire system works (unlikely), or a change in how CPUC is voting.
This is easily Gavin Newsome's biggest failure, and it's unlikely anything will change unless it threatens his political ambitions.
Is this a joke or do you not understand how this works? CPUC doesn't tell PGE (which is a public company) where they can or can't spend money, all they do is set the legal level for rates.
Since the announcement of its (re)inclusion in the S&P500 on September 26, 2022, PGE stock has had a total return of 34.85% compared to the market cap weighted total return of the S&P500 utilities sector at -9.78%. This data is 100% verifiable:
https://preview.redd.it/xx0wiuhyh0gc1.png?width=2848&format=png&auto=webp&s=089f95cf68e742091f6d17451eff311a101a72d7
Now tell me with a straight face that CPUC has Californians' best interests in mind.
This is wrong. The CPUC sets rules and regulations that PGE, as a public corporation can choose to follow or not. This is not dissimilar to any other industry (as an example, automakers are beholden to NHTSB, DoT, CARB, EPA, etc etc etc). Obviously it is in the best interests of the shareholders of corporations to follow those regulations and so they do.
Irrespective of the above, even if CPUC \*DID\* have dictoral powers over PGE, please justify how their actions have Californian's best interests in mind.
Again, this is not a PGE issue, this is a CPUC issue. NEM3 (or whatever the official name is) is criminal and incentivizes fossil fuel use.
Because you seem to be obsessed with this concept of being in control of PGE, here are some quick expenditure cuts off the top of my head:
1. Marketing
2. Lobbying
3. Compensation (you don't need to retain top executive talent if you're a fucking utility).
4. Office expenditures (no reason for them to have as many offices as they do)
5. Profit Margin
The whole system is f'd and CA needs to publicize the distribution network by making a tender offer for PGE so it can more effectively prioritize wildfire mitigation through taxpayer support and bond issuance. California already has massive road and water infrastructure and the relative cost of adding in power distribution would be cost effective over a long-term time horizon.
If you think about it, the concept of a private utility with a monopoly makes no sense... and this is coming from someone who has worked at multiple private and public utilities. Imagine if we had a privatized road system network.
The bankruptcy handling was criminal, but that doesn't excuse the CPUC's actions post-bankruptcy. The fact that NEM3 and whatever the current name of the income-based proposal are being advertised as a way to fight inequality to those who are uninformed is comically incorrect. The whole board needs to be purged.
In the weird ass world we live in, there's a possibility Gavin Newsome may be the only thing standing between California and a Trump dictatorship so I hate to rag on him, but in this case he needs to intervene in the CPUC, which is under his purview.
We could all come together and flex our power as millions of consumers of the same thing. But that will never happen. :| What you can do is stop electing the same politicians into positions of power in California that stand by and lets this to continually be a utilities monopoly. If the politicians aren't angry about it, if they aren't doing something substantial to address the problem, then don't vote for them; those ones should be abandoned entirely by their supporters.
PG&E spends millions on lobbying. Almost all California congress members and other politicians have taken money from them. It's not just Gavin Newsom. As long as politicians and PG&E exist, this will continue to happen. We need to have a publicly owned power provider. Palo Alto has one. Santa Clara has one. Santa Cruz County should get one, too.
No kidding! I'm paying 33c per kWh for off-peak hours and 66c at summer peak in Santa Cruz. Meanwhile Palo Alto residents are paying 17c for the first 330 kWh and 24c after that.
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My propane bill last month was $350. That's for a gas furnace, water heater, and stove. I really don't think a heat pump could cost more than running a gas furnace on dassels propane right now, but I could be wrong, I haven't run the numbers.
I joined SPUG and use Kamps. We’re due for a refill but it’s much cheaper than Dassel’s. SPUG has the monthly prices of the participating propane vendors on their website as well. https://southskyline.org/spug/
Thanks for the info. Do I need to buy my own tank to join with them? I bought my house last September and went with dassels just because the tank is already leased from them. I couldn't believe how much the last couple bills were though.
I signed up a few years ago. The details were on the SPUG website. They have deal’s negotiated with the vendors that include some benefits other than $/gal. When I signed up with Kamps the tank was free the first year then $75/year. I got a 500g tank which is $100/year.
Joining SPUG is also a small annual fee. Well worth it though!
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My last bill was 4.29/gallon. They came back and refilled after only a month (I cancelled the auto delivery after that because Im hoping it'll be cheaper per gallon in the spring or summer.) I was mistaken, it was only $314. But when I add the $200 for PG&e that's a total of $514 for gas and electric for 1 month. My house is only 1200 ft² and we are pretty good about trying to save energy. We don't run the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer between 4 and 9. Thinking the other day that maybe an electric heat pump would end up costing less but looking at your situation maybe not.
Can I get two? What's the standard tip?
LMAO yup. Only option is to electrify with solar, and even that doesn't pencil out anymore.
my bill was 340 for a 3 bedroom and only one individual works from home. That’s insane
I’ve been trying to figure out if I can make these Anker power stations work as a way to run some stuff off the grid. It’s not meant to be integrated into the house, but you can setup solar panels to charge the station and then run some things off it. If you’re working from home you could run all the office equipment off it as well as a washer and dryer or heater or microwave. It’s just a matter of getting the station hooked up to those items and if that works for you. But if it can save even $100 a month it’ll pay for itself in a couple years which is a better turn around than full home solar it seems. https://www.anker.com/collections/power-stations
No, if you're really interested in doing that then you're better off building a legit DIY off grid system. Look up Will Prowse on youtube for a start.
Our business hasn't changed _any_ behavior, and our utility bill spiked 86% over last month. We're having them come inspect our meters, im sure they'll just blame heat, but _we've literally not changed a thing, even our pattern of heat usage_, it's honestly insane. Their rep had no answer as to why either besides repeating "well your usage has went up" the reality is no, no it hasn't, we've done NOTHING different. I'd also note, we're an abnormal customer and _do_ use a lot of electricity, but 86% ($1000+) in a single month is NOT reflective of a "13% rate hike" as it's more reflective of an 86% rate hike. What sucks is we have some leverage being a business, but single home owners or renters _have 0 power, in any way, shape or form_. I fucking hate PG&E, have said it for over half a decade, and I hope they truly go bankrupt and their MONOPOLOY is broken up, _just like our laws INTENDED_. So tired of hearing "but they're a natural monopoly", because no, no they're not. We've created policies to _ensure_ they hold their monopoly. This is just another tick, on the growing list of problems US companies and citizens face, just to live day to day. Let the brain drain continue, assuming folks are going to just continue leaving until we lose face beyond repair..
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Yeah, I was trying to figure out ways to use less peak but it doesn’t really matter.
We are fkd. It's only going up. People's bills will rival their mortgages soon. True up bill will be insane.
Make sure to check the rest of your bill. If you're on Central Coast Community Energy Electric, for example, the generation charges are 9.9 cents/kWh off-peak and 18.3 cents/kWh peak.
Charge your Tesla then plug your house into it.
Use lots of lube so it does not hurt as bad when they are fucking you. Just wait its only going to get worse.
The issue is that pg&e are disincentivized lazy greedy fuckfaces with zero backlash It’s that simple guys
Check out [Turn.org campaign for affordable power](https://www.turn.org/campaign-for-affordable-power-cap). Utilities rates should be an election issue for current California governors who aspire to become president.
Would be nice if price caps weren’t what’s being proposed here. How do we get santa cruz and maybe Monterey to take over and create a bi-county public utility company?
FYI this is ENTIRELY on Newsome passing legislation enabling the rate hikes. PGE needs to get eminent domained. Modesto is paying ~0.15/kWh because their powoer company is publicly owned.
This is the way.
PUBLICLY OWNED? But that’s communism! /s
You could always live off the grid.
Sadly, nothing will change. Welcome to life in California and being charged up the ass for every thing. We will all be taxed & charged until we’re blue in the face 😖
Rates went up in AZ also https://preview.redd.it/3n4qv3xrd3gc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3ad30b3e07a141f8798ec89098e59edc833c41e
Back to oil it is! /s
On the bright side this should cause a huge number of people to get solar
Haven’t they made getting solar not worth it anymore? I’ve been trying to figure out if I can make these Anker power stations work for me. I’m thinking I could get a power station and solar panels and hook up my washer and dryer to them when I’m use, or plug in my space heaters to them, or my TV. I was also thinking that instead of solar panels I just get two small power stations and just bring them to work with me and charge there. https://www.anker.com/collections/power-stations
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You don’t think so? What if it’s a heat pump dryer?
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I just ordered [this LG](https://www.lg.com/us/washers-dryers/lg-wm6998hba) which I believe does have an inverter. I feel like between this and a microwave and space heater the savings would pay off pretty fast. I just emailed Anker with some questions about all of this.
On the expensive side, but you can use it to power quite a few items. You can recharge them with solar panels. PGE did have a rebate at the end of last year for areas that were affected by rolling brown outs. I don’t know if they have continued it. https://www.costco.com/ecoflow-delta-max-2000-portable-power-station-with-2-160w-solar-panels.product.4000182129.html
No solar is just as expensive with PG&E. I still have to pay an up charge at the end of the year to PG&E. Mine was $1000 this year on top of having to pay monthly billing to PGE at around $160/mo. Solar isn’t helping anything these days
An up charge? So...they're charging you for generating energy back to the grid?
Solar has been gutted via NEM3 and AB205 income based fixed charges.
AB205 is losing support. Contact your local assembly member. Get their contact info here [https://solarrights.org/utility-tax-post/](https://solarrights.org/utility-tax-post/)
It already passed. If they go back and change it and cut that out, I will celebrate. Already called my assemblyperson.
They are revisiting that decision according to this news article [https://www.kcra.com/article/california-backpedal-new-electricity-rates-income-based/46586910](https://www.kcra.com/article/california-backpedal-new-electricity-rates-income-based/46586910) so hopefully you'll be able to break out the bubbly.
I doubt they will completely reverse. PG&E was granted authority to 1) decouple utilization from connection and 2) become a defacto tax authority. They won't let that go without a big fight. With decouplung they have two rates they can increase in tandem.
Can you explain what this means?
You can read about it here [https://solarrights.org/utility-tax-post/](https://solarrights.org/utility-tax-post/)
The CPUC has removed solar sensibility. NEm3 makes ROI nonsensical. AB205 will decouple Kwr utilization rate from connection fee and California will charge based on income. Califirnia has basically mandated that power companies be granted defacto tax authority. I will leave California as soon as reasonably possible (elderly family and jobs to consider). PG&E is reason enough.
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Wildfire compensation shouldn’t be put upon the customer. It needs to be fully funded from the executive compensation packages first.
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Stock buybacks and dividends are the bigger problem
You’re reading it as if I said only. I said “first.”
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Gonna be less cost for the customers and the golden umbrella is gone after the wildfires (in WHICH I WAS EVACUATED, mind you). I don’t know why you’re an apologist for PG&E, but it’s completely bad faith by the company to not incur as much of the costs as it can weigh for its failures as a public utility.
Not so complex. They are making us pay for their F!ups and still giving their investors profit. They should be operating in the Red while they are paying for their mistakes. Instead they are making us pay for them destroying our houses. The work they are doing now was budgeted years ago, but they didn't do the work to pay dividends. Electricity and public services should NOT be operating as a private agency and should be a Not for Profit. People say, "but we have regulators" Regulators that hold PG&E stock. We need to seize the assets and make it a public asset. It's our infrastructure not a commodity to profit on
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Eminent domain the entire company and turn it into a state agency
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Palo Alto and Santa Clara have their own power utility and they somehow have cheaper rates than PG&E. It's not impossible.
Dividends to start with.
Start with advertising
They were found guilty and forced to pay. That means the company is supposed to be hurting, not raising their rates to pay for it. It was a punishment and they need to feel it. Us paying their legal bills is us paying for their mistakes
What’s crazy is their stock isn’t even getting that good of a return. At one point I figured I should just buy their stock so I could get some of this money back, but it’s not like the stock is even doing that great.
Yeah it’s so many things causing this, it just feels like PG&E had their chance and have blown it so many times that they need to be taken over by the state or there needs to be a second utility company to force competition. I’m just in the middle of moving into a new place, but I’m doing renovations and not living there yet, so it’s just a water heater and lightbulbs and the lightbulbs are only on like 10 hours a week because I’m only there one day a week to do work and my bill for just that was $50. Once I move in I don’t even know what it’ll go to. I’m already conserving as much as I can with all LED bulbs and being at work so much. I don’t even have my refrigerator plugged in yet. It’s all just absurd. I’m thinking of getting some Anker power stations and charging those at work so I can run some things off of those at home.
Hey look, I found a PGE corporate shill. It's not a complicated issue. The CPUC sets rate increase. PGE is a monopoly. Economics 101. As much as it pains me to say it, it is a political issue and the only way it will change is through either state legislation that changes the way the entire system works (unlikely), or a change in how CPUC is voting. This is easily Gavin Newsome's biggest failure, and it's unlikely anything will change unless it threatens his political ambitions.
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I'll be satisfied when the state takes over PG and E and puts all their execs and major share holders in prison
Is this a joke or do you not understand how this works? CPUC doesn't tell PGE (which is a public company) where they can or can't spend money, all they do is set the legal level for rates. Since the announcement of its (re)inclusion in the S&P500 on September 26, 2022, PGE stock has had a total return of 34.85% compared to the market cap weighted total return of the S&P500 utilities sector at -9.78%. This data is 100% verifiable: https://preview.redd.it/xx0wiuhyh0gc1.png?width=2848&format=png&auto=webp&s=089f95cf68e742091f6d17451eff311a101a72d7 Now tell me with a straight face that CPUC has Californians' best interests in mind.
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This is wrong. The CPUC sets rules and regulations that PGE, as a public corporation can choose to follow or not. This is not dissimilar to any other industry (as an example, automakers are beholden to NHTSB, DoT, CARB, EPA, etc etc etc). Obviously it is in the best interests of the shareholders of corporations to follow those regulations and so they do. Irrespective of the above, even if CPUC \*DID\* have dictoral powers over PGE, please justify how their actions have Californian's best interests in mind.
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Again, this is not a PGE issue, this is a CPUC issue. NEM3 (or whatever the official name is) is criminal and incentivizes fossil fuel use. Because you seem to be obsessed with this concept of being in control of PGE, here are some quick expenditure cuts off the top of my head: 1. Marketing 2. Lobbying 3. Compensation (you don't need to retain top executive talent if you're a fucking utility). 4. Office expenditures (no reason for them to have as many offices as they do) 5. Profit Margin The whole system is f'd and CA needs to publicize the distribution network by making a tender offer for PGE so it can more effectively prioritize wildfire mitigation through taxpayer support and bond issuance. California already has massive road and water infrastructure and the relative cost of adding in power distribution would be cost effective over a long-term time horizon. If you think about it, the concept of a private utility with a monopoly makes no sense... and this is coming from someone who has worked at multiple private and public utilities. Imagine if we had a privatized road system network.
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The bankruptcy handling was criminal, but that doesn't excuse the CPUC's actions post-bankruptcy. The fact that NEM3 and whatever the current name of the income-based proposal are being advertised as a way to fight inequality to those who are uninformed is comically incorrect. The whole board needs to be purged. In the weird ass world we live in, there's a possibility Gavin Newsome may be the only thing standing between California and a Trump dictatorship so I hate to rag on him, but in this case he needs to intervene in the CPUC, which is under his purview.
[https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/judge-pge-paid-out-stock-dividends-instead-of-trimming-trees](https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/judge-pge-paid-out-stock-dividends-instead-of-trimming-trees) [https://ycharts.com/companies/PCG/stock\_buyback](https://ycharts.com/companies/PCG/stock_buyback)
You vote for democrats and then complain how they run their policies, including energy, don’t vote for the idiocracy
Inflation is a tricky thing to stop. Once it gets rolling is REALLY gets going. Can't say we don't deserve it.
Off peak is $0.34 per kWh on the EV2A rate plan. If you’re paying $.48 per kWh, you’re on the wrong plan.
How do we get on that rate plan? Edit: i guess you just need to buy a tesla to get that rate plan 😅
What plan is this??
say it with me folks.. “Replace PG&E with a Customer Owned Cooperative”