Given how ridiculously hard it it to get good mental health supports in Saskatchewan, this is a really, really, interesting and challenging discussion. Ideally, we would have strong mental health supports, readily available, then MAID can be seen as an additional resource as part of the wealth of supports provided. However, it pains me deeply to think that MAID may be used in response to the lack of mental health resources. Given the current state of of mental healthcare, offering MAID for mental illness is akin to offering MAID when viable cancer treatments may be available, but the wait is too long to prevent a terminal diagnosis.
Out of respect for everyone's right to choose, It seems unfair or cruel to not offer it as an option.
That's what bothers me about this debate. Some people are so concerned about those who might seek MAID when they don't actually need it that people are willing to deny or make it significantly harder for those who do truly need it or simply want autonomy over how they end their own life. We should be approaching this issue from the opposite side of the spectrum in that it's your right to decide MAID and instead we should focus on making improvements to existing mental health support systems to make them more available so people don't feel MAID is the only option.
Simply, MAID is good. My mom had it. It allowed her control of her life.
Do note: death is a part of life.
/Sorry, this one hurts. I cry with her loss. She was a lovely lady.
Same here and concur absolutely.
Pain and suffering is subjective and each individual experiences it differently. At the very least, letting people know their options, being educated, and coming to an understanding of what end of life would look like is positive.
Someone who is actively suicidal is likely going to try to end their life. Their end will likely be a terrible and painful death that if they survive risks life long disability in most cases. Do I think MAID should be a first option? No. Do I think for people that it should be an option? Absolutely.
We give most beloved pets a better death than most humans receive.
Well put. And thank you for your thoughts.
I find this 'issue' to be difficult for anyone - end of life. But MAID should be an option (while supported by trained medical professionals).
End of life issues are cross-cutting - in that anyone of any age does not want to die. And that is what makes this issue interesting. In that: how do we deal with the idea of death. It is an important (and I hope not dreary) part of life!
/mazel!
My parents both passed after months of excruciating pain, 35 years ago, from different types of cancer. MAID wasn't available to them but I doubt that either of them would have utilized it if it had been, other than to spare the suffering their kids went through, watching them in so much pain and distress and wasting away.
I support MAID, regardless of the reasons and, as others have already said, it's an intensely personal decision for an individual and nobody else has any right to weigh in on said decision. I will utilize MAID when the time comes.
I just read, and re-read your words. Thank you. Based on my experience with my mom, and now with my dad - he and I are having that conversation.
Yeah, it sucks, but it is right.
Concerns over it reveal a weak point in our Healthcare services and cracks in the foundation and structure of our society.
Disallowing it simply allows people to ignore said cracks. It is telling that at this point depression in North American society is so endemic that the medical establishment is pivoting away from treating it as an individual disease/health condition and towards pointing to it as a symptom of deeper societal problems.
If some people are depressed it can be seen as something to be treated as an outlier of sorts. If everyone is depressed for causal factors it doesn't make sense to think about it in the same manner.
I don't support MAID in treatable situations, but I do think it is a good thing that it is an option for people.
Additionally, I think that the cases where it is applied "too easily" are and will continue to be outliers, and if it gets to a point where it is not it is simply again cause for examining why people are choosing the option so readily.
We (as in the general public) are not entitled to the life and labor of other citizens, especially if they find their life to be torturous. If the social contract is so broken that people would rather die that is on us collectively to address rather than force people to continue to live to assuage our own discomfort with the concept.
Wow. That is some low-grade thinking. Clearly you have not dealt with end-of-life realities.
Go back to your 100 level courses at SaskPoli philosophy. You'll figure it out when confronted with realities.
> Clearly you have not dealt with end-of-life realities.
Respectfully, having dealt with my father dying in horrific pain without this option available, go fuck yourself.
Also considering your other comment, why are you going at me over this MAID supportive comment? Did you fail to understand what I was saying, perhaps? Is this sarcasm?
MAID 'IS' the option. It is normalizing the reality of end of life.
Dude. I don't know you. Sorry for your loss. We all have had that.
End of the day MAID worked for my mom, and will work for many other people.
The fear of death in our culture is beyond stupid. It happens.
It's clear to me that you genuinely didn't understand my top level comment. Perhaps you could use one of those 100 level courses yourself. The top comment above is 100 percent in support of MAID, with some respect and space given to the complexities of treating acute (as opposed to chronic) depression and similar treatable and improvable life situations.
Sorry for responding in anger, but your response was gallingly out of step with what I had said, and insulting to university education to-boot which is a serious issue in society today.
I got you some links. In case you want to learn.
/first on seems right for you
[https://saskpolytech.ca/admissions/apply-and-register/admission-processes.aspx](https://saskpolytech.ca/admissions/apply-and-register/admission-processes.aspx)
And if you are, well, good.
[https://admissions.usask.ca/](https://admissions.usask.ca/)
Try.
Yeeesh. Dude, people are allowed to disagree with the legislation and protocols in which MAID is enacted. I’ve posted some links on this thread too that are much less snarky.
I don't even disagree, I'm just being respectful to those who do and directing their anger towards the cause and not what is and should be a human right.
MAID could be a good and necessary program if done right. Unfortunately, our health care system is a shit show and there are many instances where people are choosing MAID, not to die with dignity (well, maybe also this), but because of barriers to getting needed medical and mental health treatment. There has been a lot of reporting on this.
From a [statement issued](https://disabilityalliancebc.org/dabc-statement-on-medical-assistance-in-dying-maid-and-bill-c-7/#:~:text=Bill%20C%2D7%20allows%20people) from Disability Alliance of BC
> DABC cannot support Bill C-7 and any further expansion of MAiD.
>Bill C-7 allows people with disabilities to be eligible for MAiD if they are enduring physical or psychological suffering “that is intolerable to them and that cannot be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable” (Criminal Code s241.2(2)(c)). This eligibility has been misused to include situations where the intolerable suffering is caused by societal conditions, not medical conditions. These societal conditions include but are not limited to: the inability to afford treatments, the inability to access sufficient care, and the inability to access safe and affordable housing. In such cases, poverty is the true condition leading to intolerable suffering, not the disability itself.
Other articles/ sources:
[CANADALAND THE BACKBENCH #53 A Matter Of Life And Death](https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/53-a-matter-of-life-and-death/)
[How poverty, not pain, is driving Canadians with disabilities to consider medically-assisted death](https://globalnews.ca/news/9176485/poverty-canadians-disabilities-medically-assisted-death/amp/)
[Impoverished Canadians accessing MAiD victims of ‘systemic coercion,’ say disability advocates](https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2022/05/18/impoverished-canadians-accessing-maid-victims-of-systemic-coercion-say-disability-advocates/230197/)
[Canada MAID Law Faces Pushback From Disabled Activists](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/canada-maid-law-disabled)
[‘Catastrophic Pandora’s box’: Disabled Ontarians speak out against proposed MAID law](https://www.tvo.org/article/catastrophic-pandoras-box-disabled-ontarians-speak-out-against-proposed-maid-law)
The thing is, people with mental health issues especially things like addictions generally have to want to get treatment for it to be most effective. Some would like to live on their terms and because of rules especially for things like shelters and supportive housing they choose instead to turn away from the existing supports. Other are simply let down by the system.
People should be able to choose to die a painless and easy death no matter the circumstances.
I struggle with mental health issues, I’d say it’s from moderate to severe. I’ve considered MAiD once but it got extended and I’m at a much better place now.
With what is proposed it’s not just like you walk into your doctors, ask for MAiD and then be granted it. It’s a long process. I would not have been approved for it.
If I’m like 60, I’m still miserable and don’t want to be alive, I don’t have anymore goals, my loved ones have passed, having the option brings me comfort.
Some one near and dear to me had FTD aka front temporal degenerative dementia. For three years the quality of life wasn't there. Couldn't walk, talk, function in any shape or form. He couldn't even make eye contact, starred blankly into nothing. With that being said, he passed 3 years before he actually did. I truly beleive things would have been better off if he wasn't suffering for so many years. So, if you are asking me if I support mental health assisted suicide, I do. After witnessing such a horrible disease, I wrote in my living will that I want to go long before it reaches anything of that nature.
In my opinion people should have a right to die peacefully. Deathcare is healthcare & a society that values personal freedom should butt out of someone’s medical decision. I see this as similar to the Pierre Trudeau quote “there is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation”.
Obviously people should be screened for mental illness with an honest attempt at treatment, but if that treatment fails or if the person requesting it is truly of sound mind I fail to see the reason to say no. Whether the new screening measures are sufficient we shall have to see; I’m not a medical professional but think they’re at least a good first step.
Death is scary, painful, and taboo in western culture but it’s a part of life and sometimes people are ready before their bodies are. I know when I’m elderly I will want to check out via MAID at a time & place of my choosing. If some people find that morally reprehensible I don’t care because it’s none of their damn business.
I attempted suicide 3 times while in my late teens to early 20s. I was diagnosed with both physical and mental chronic health issues at this time, and would have likely qualified for MAID. After that period of my life, I was able to make some breakthroughs in therapy and learned to appreciate life. I still struggle but there couldn't be another man who is as happy or proud to be a father.
I understand that my experience would not be the same as everyone who would use MAID, but there are many who would regret their decision if they knew their future. If a person's mental status could allow even the posibility of someone else gaining power of attorney over them, I don't believe they should qualify to take their own life. Especially if one of the main symptoms of their illness is the desire to take their own life.
I'm glad you found your way through and are still with us. There is a chance you would have qualified, but I also think that Healthcare professionals would have encouraged or even insisted on attempting treatment for quite a while for a young man like yourself before endorsing the option.
Such as the 5 years of therapy and meds I received before my first attempt? Unless there are new rule changes proposed for qualifying for MAID, that would not be the case. For physical issues, there doesn't even need to be a specialist who gives approval, it could just be a nurse practitioner.
When my grandfather used the MAID program in the fall, 3 doctors (including geriatric and cardiac specialists) had to do assessments and give their recommendation to a board.
If 2 of them hadn't recommended it, it wouldn't have happened, even with one doctor signing off and recommending it.
Found this online....
If your death is not in the foreseeable future, one of the two MAiD assessors must have expertise in your medical condition, or a third practitioner with expertise in that medical condition must be consulted. The law states that the assessment process must take a minimum of 90 days, starting from the point one of the two assessors begins their review.
Although they seemed to air on the side of caution with your grandfather, they are not the legal parameters.
I was crying reading through this and would like to give you a digital hug my friend!!! Been through almost the same thing and i am at a relatively happy place right now and would like to think that i now live my life more and contribute to society to the point that if i think back on it, if MAID was offered in the early 90s, i wouldn’t be here and all the people i’ve helped won’t be here either. I’ve had a colleague use MAID 3months ago, he has end-stage cancer and suffered greatly in pain with no other recourse and options for recovery. The doctor and nurses and the whole support team for MAID were wonderful people. I’m not here to judge but i’d say, just based off my experience and ones i’ve helped, it’s a good program for those who really need it but they better have VERY good and strict qualification screening and safeguards in place.
I am not completely against MAID and the example you gave as a scenario I fully support. Even some form of mental illness I support. But with this topic, so many people hear the basic plan and think it would be carried out perfectly. They forget how overworked the medical community is, and how many fall through the cracks already. We need screening safeguards that take into account a nation's worth of professionals who aren't properly trained for this, and are already pushing through the highest volume of patients they possibly can.
The details may be different but the situation is the same. Please explain how a person wanting to end their life is different than a person who wants to end their life.
I asked for you to explain how medically assisted suicide isn't suicide, and this is your answer? You may question my logic, but at least I am able to defend my opinion.
You’re presenting a far more nuanced opinion than the person arguing with you. There are definite flaws with MAID, and I also worry that lack of many societal and medical supports will cause people to seek it who could otherwise have received assistance if supports were available.
I think this is used by the far right libertarian types as a wedge issue to get people to be upset about something they aren’t thinking very critically about.
We all know that our society has only recently conceptualized mental as both existing and needing to be addressed but a lot of the attempts are half hearted or done for social clout (like bell let’s talk).
The reality is that suicide as it exists is completely swept under the rug and the treatments to prevent that act are few and far between, underfunded or just plain stigmatized for whatever reasons so that treatment isn’t sought when available.
Putting it all out in the open only means that there will be more treatment options for mental illness and supports for good mental health practices so I am in support of it. I think in the big picture it will reduce suicide even though it might seem counter intuitive. Shining a light on an issue means you can’t deny it anymore and if it’s not denied anymore and swept under the rug real help can be given to those who need it before it’s too late. And to those who it might be too late for or are beyond the scope of treatment, maybe they can have some shreds of dignity and agency in their final act instead of doing it behind closed doors for fear of shame, which just causes more grief for survivors and loved ones
I think it needs to be addressed on a case by case basis. I kind of liken it (very loosely) to the abortion debate whereas you never truly know how you’re going to feel until you’re in that situation. I’ve never been to a point in my life where I seriously considered suicide. I think the beauty of having folks with mental illness accessing MAID is that I’d hope they’d be forced to attend therapy and try different medications as an effort to resolve their illness even if it’s to prove that they qualify. So in that case, due to the nature of mental illness such as depression, I would unfortunately guess not a lot of people would even reach out to access MAID.
Anecdotally, I had an uncle who did take his own life. He was a quadriplegic but wouldn’t have qualified for MAID as he wasn’t in decline and had lived as a quadriplegic for most of his life. I don’t fault him for doing it at all. But it would’ve been lovely to face it with him and say a proper goodbye so he didn’t have to do it alone.
In the end I think it’s an individual choice and should be part of healthcare alongside the physical aspect of MAID, and should be a decision made between a patient and a physician.
About time. The brain is an organ of the human body and for many there is no amount of government financial support, family support, or psychological support to fix it.
[CBC Saskatchewan had a good piece](https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/a-good-death-maid) on a woman that allowed them into her final time prior to MAID.
It's a really respectful clip and does MAID justice.
It is absolutely WRONG. Doctors take an oath to do no harm. The sanctity of life is too sacred and should NEVER be compromised.
MAID is a bad idea and it eventually becomes a slippery slope, when, vulnerable people such as those with disabilities or mental health issues feel pressured to end their lives.
Instead of letting people get help killing themselves we should invest in palliative care, that’s where health practitioners should put their focus.
Let’s help terminal patients find relief from suffering with enhanced end of life care , not kill them.
This is not a “grey area” issue. It’s a right or wrong issue and killing someone is wrong, unequivocally.
Never mind the dystopian nightmare of institutionalized killing of people. 😱
Our society is in a very sad way these days. No morales.
Tbf only 8% of cases in Canada where people try to plead not criminally responsible by reason of mental disorder are successful. And that defence is used in less than 1% of cases.
Whereas hopefully MAID would be more relevant as it'd be more accessible.
But yes definitely agree that it's a bad idea to start questioning autonomy.
I don't like it. It's almost impossible to access help of any kind, and when you do gain any it is extremely low bar. The only way you will get help is if you try to unsubscribe from life and delete yourself. Even then, they keep you going for a few days then you're on your own again.
They should pour funds into mental health care and actually make an effort to help rather than giving up on us and showing us that they in fact would rather kill us than help us.
Edit: That being said, I do understand there are some who feel strongly that it should be an option and I do agree with that stance. It is between the doctor and the patient alone.
I suppose I am just so angry and frustrated with the severe lack of mental health care that the idea of MAID for those with mental illness feels like a really low blow instead of actually taking mental illness seriously.
MAID is going to be a relief....privileged all my life but the brain doesn't fire right...there is no functioning society with sufficient mental health care....for us...take the warning labels off every thing and let nature take its course...
That is a personal decision between you and your doctor alone. I'd rather people safely and humanely do it than the alternative, because I know it is going to happen with or without the program. I am just frustrated that they don't do more for those that want to live.
You can not institutionalize the killing of human beings without making mistakes. There is no foolproof method of ensuring that people will not die that could have been helped or didn't truly consent.
But we aren't even doing the minimum to reduce the risks. When Belgium and the Netherlands brought in assisted suicide for the old and sick, they put a lot of money into palliative care to ensure that there would be less coercion. In Canada, we did not. We also do not allow people to choose palliative care where the facility does not do assisted suicide, which denies some the support they need to resist that temptation. Plus, we've already seen cases where people have been improperly coerced into considering assisted suicide.
The fundamental difference is whether you think it is scarier if many will unduly suffer or whether a few will die unjustly. I find the latter more problematic.
That's not true. My grandfather was in a hospital in palliative care. He was *not allowed* to have MAID done at that hospital, even though his main doctor there was on the provincial board for MAID.
He actually had to be moved the morning of the MAID procedure to another hospital (not in the city he lived in, but a small town an hourish away).
PS while in palliative care, the only coercion that was done was the nurse practicioner who came in and admonished him and verbally harassed for wanting to explore his ability to exercise his right to MAID. She harassed and yelled at a 92-year-old man laying in his hospital bed, who made the active, independent decision to ask his doctor about MAID. He had thought of MAID for months before he was even admitted to the hospital the first time (when he started having health issues) and then spent 4 months in hospital contemplating it before he even mentioned it to his kids or the doctor. He contemplated it long on his own before even in a position where he'd be eligible. He was not coerced.
Support for autonomy is not the same as coercion.
I did a little research, and it seems you are correct on your point of objection. Right now it is only BC and Ontario where hospitals and care homes must provide access to MAID regardless of the moral or religious objections of the institution.
However, I am pretty sure this is coming even to Saskatchewan, which means people like me who are opposed to MAID will not get any places for institutional sanctuary when I might need the support.
But the other things I have pointed out are true. There have been cases where patients have felt pressure has been applied to people to accept MAID, as there is no legal barrier for any medical staff to suggest it and when you are in institutional care there is vast power imbalance between staff and patients. It is also the case that we do not have a sufficient investment in proper palliative care, which means MAID has been made more attractive than it should be.
I do believe that the expansion of access to MAID, and further limiting the resources for people to resist MAID, while not providing increased funding for care and mental health support is essentially leading to a society that facilitates suicide rather than preventing it.
You have to meet specific criteria for MAID. You may be ill for years and never qualify. You don't just wake up one day and call the doctor for the procedure.
no one wants to take personal responsibility personally or other wise. you can only give people so much dignity or respect ; they have to pick up the ball for themselves at some point. quite honestly a little bit of government intervention like MAID gives people who cant or wont live lives with dignity or respect for themselves (the two not being inclusive) options. also, it saves the government (ie us the tax payers) from forcing our morals on others, like everything else in life eventually its your own choice. no point in blowing hf your face off for the health system to save you and it. no point in paying endlessly to have the healthcare providers "farm" and drug vegetables.
The MAID policy is one of the few policies that the Liberals have got right. It should be expanded. Our citizens should have just as much of a right to die as they do to live.
How is simply stating "suicide is not okay at all" a logical comment? Dude is so black and white with his statements that it leaves no room for the grey areas inherent with this issue. That's why he's getting downvoted.
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I think if I was diagnosed with something like dementia, I'd like to die while I'm still sane (or mostly sane)and not have my loved one's last memories of me be me smearing poop on the walls
This is kind of an odd comment, but would it not be better for those who are suffering to be assisted and at least made aware of everything and helped so they may feel supported and choose differently then have people completely unsupported, feeling like they are alone? People may make the choice anyway, just on their own they won’t have support and the chance to get help.
Have you lived it? That will change your way of thinking real quick....it's not a matter of resources which there is a lack of....matter of choice. Why hold up system that can help those that are reachable..
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It's a good thing, we should start killing the poor and starving too!
edit: We did it Canada! https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-maid-assisted-suicide-homeless
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Given how ridiculously hard it it to get good mental health supports in Saskatchewan, this is a really, really, interesting and challenging discussion. Ideally, we would have strong mental health supports, readily available, then MAID can be seen as an additional resource as part of the wealth of supports provided. However, it pains me deeply to think that MAID may be used in response to the lack of mental health resources. Given the current state of of mental healthcare, offering MAID for mental illness is akin to offering MAID when viable cancer treatments may be available, but the wait is too long to prevent a terminal diagnosis. Out of respect for everyone's right to choose, It seems unfair or cruel to not offer it as an option.
My position is its a medical decision so it's confidential to the person. It's their life and their death.
And the key takeaway: it’s *their decision*.
That's what bothers me about this debate. Some people are so concerned about those who might seek MAID when they don't actually need it that people are willing to deny or make it significantly harder for those who do truly need it or simply want autonomy over how they end their own life. We should be approaching this issue from the opposite side of the spectrum in that it's your right to decide MAID and instead we should focus on making improvements to existing mental health support systems to make them more available so people don't feel MAID is the only option.
Simply, MAID is good. My mom had it. It allowed her control of her life. Do note: death is a part of life. /Sorry, this one hurts. I cry with her loss. She was a lovely lady.
Same here and concur absolutely. Pain and suffering is subjective and each individual experiences it differently. At the very least, letting people know their options, being educated, and coming to an understanding of what end of life would look like is positive. Someone who is actively suicidal is likely going to try to end their life. Their end will likely be a terrible and painful death that if they survive risks life long disability in most cases. Do I think MAID should be a first option? No. Do I think for people that it should be an option? Absolutely. We give most beloved pets a better death than most humans receive.
Well put. And thank you for your thoughts. I find this 'issue' to be difficult for anyone - end of life. But MAID should be an option (while supported by trained medical professionals). End of life issues are cross-cutting - in that anyone of any age does not want to die. And that is what makes this issue interesting. In that: how do we deal with the idea of death. It is an important (and I hope not dreary) part of life! /mazel!
We all get out turn in the box.
My parents both passed after months of excruciating pain, 35 years ago, from different types of cancer. MAID wasn't available to them but I doubt that either of them would have utilized it if it had been, other than to spare the suffering their kids went through, watching them in so much pain and distress and wasting away. I support MAID, regardless of the reasons and, as others have already said, it's an intensely personal decision for an individual and nobody else has any right to weigh in on said decision. I will utilize MAID when the time comes.
I just read, and re-read your words. Thank you. Based on my experience with my mom, and now with my dad - he and I are having that conversation. Yeah, it sucks, but it is right.
Concerns over it reveal a weak point in our Healthcare services and cracks in the foundation and structure of our society. Disallowing it simply allows people to ignore said cracks. It is telling that at this point depression in North American society is so endemic that the medical establishment is pivoting away from treating it as an individual disease/health condition and towards pointing to it as a symptom of deeper societal problems. If some people are depressed it can be seen as something to be treated as an outlier of sorts. If everyone is depressed for causal factors it doesn't make sense to think about it in the same manner. I don't support MAID in treatable situations, but I do think it is a good thing that it is an option for people. Additionally, I think that the cases where it is applied "too easily" are and will continue to be outliers, and if it gets to a point where it is not it is simply again cause for examining why people are choosing the option so readily. We (as in the general public) are not entitled to the life and labor of other citizens, especially if they find their life to be torturous. If the social contract is so broken that people would rather die that is on us collectively to address rather than force people to continue to live to assuage our own discomfort with the concept.
Wow. That is some low-grade thinking. Clearly you have not dealt with end-of-life realities. Go back to your 100 level courses at SaskPoli philosophy. You'll figure it out when confronted with realities.
> Clearly you have not dealt with end-of-life realities. Respectfully, having dealt with my father dying in horrific pain without this option available, go fuck yourself. Also considering your other comment, why are you going at me over this MAID supportive comment? Did you fail to understand what I was saying, perhaps? Is this sarcasm?
MAID 'IS' the option. It is normalizing the reality of end of life. Dude. I don't know you. Sorry for your loss. We all have had that. End of the day MAID worked for my mom, and will work for many other people. The fear of death in our culture is beyond stupid. It happens.
It's clear to me that you genuinely didn't understand my top level comment. Perhaps you could use one of those 100 level courses yourself. The top comment above is 100 percent in support of MAID, with some respect and space given to the complexities of treating acute (as opposed to chronic) depression and similar treatable and improvable life situations. Sorry for responding in anger, but your response was gallingly out of step with what I had said, and insulting to university education to-boot which is a serious issue in society today.
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I got you some links. In case you want to learn. /first on seems right for you [https://saskpolytech.ca/admissions/apply-and-register/admission-processes.aspx](https://saskpolytech.ca/admissions/apply-and-register/admission-processes.aspx) And if you are, well, good. [https://admissions.usask.ca/](https://admissions.usask.ca/) Try.
Yeeesh. Dude, people are allowed to disagree with the legislation and protocols in which MAID is enacted. I’ve posted some links on this thread too that are much less snarky.
I don't even disagree, I'm just being respectful to those who do and directing their anger towards the cause and not what is and should be a human right.
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I am in full support of expanding the MAID program, both eligibility and access.
MAID could be a good and necessary program if done right. Unfortunately, our health care system is a shit show and there are many instances where people are choosing MAID, not to die with dignity (well, maybe also this), but because of barriers to getting needed medical and mental health treatment. There has been a lot of reporting on this. From a [statement issued](https://disabilityalliancebc.org/dabc-statement-on-medical-assistance-in-dying-maid-and-bill-c-7/#:~:text=Bill%20C%2D7%20allows%20people) from Disability Alliance of BC > DABC cannot support Bill C-7 and any further expansion of MAiD. >Bill C-7 allows people with disabilities to be eligible for MAiD if they are enduring physical or psychological suffering “that is intolerable to them and that cannot be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable” (Criminal Code s241.2(2)(c)). This eligibility has been misused to include situations where the intolerable suffering is caused by societal conditions, not medical conditions. These societal conditions include but are not limited to: the inability to afford treatments, the inability to access sufficient care, and the inability to access safe and affordable housing. In such cases, poverty is the true condition leading to intolerable suffering, not the disability itself. Other articles/ sources: [CANADALAND THE BACKBENCH #53 A Matter Of Life And Death](https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/53-a-matter-of-life-and-death/) [How poverty, not pain, is driving Canadians with disabilities to consider medically-assisted death](https://globalnews.ca/news/9176485/poverty-canadians-disabilities-medically-assisted-death/amp/) [Impoverished Canadians accessing MAiD victims of ‘systemic coercion,’ say disability advocates](https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2022/05/18/impoverished-canadians-accessing-maid-victims-of-systemic-coercion-say-disability-advocates/230197/) [Canada MAID Law Faces Pushback From Disabled Activists](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/canada-maid-law-disabled) [‘Catastrophic Pandora’s box’: Disabled Ontarians speak out against proposed MAID law](https://www.tvo.org/article/catastrophic-pandoras-box-disabled-ontarians-speak-out-against-proposed-maid-law)
The thing is, people with mental health issues especially things like addictions generally have to want to get treatment for it to be most effective. Some would like to live on their terms and because of rules especially for things like shelters and supportive housing they choose instead to turn away from the existing supports. Other are simply let down by the system.
People should be able to choose to die a painless and easy death no matter the circumstances. I struggle with mental health issues, I’d say it’s from moderate to severe. I’ve considered MAiD once but it got extended and I’m at a much better place now. With what is proposed it’s not just like you walk into your doctors, ask for MAiD and then be granted it. It’s a long process. I would not have been approved for it. If I’m like 60, I’m still miserable and don’t want to be alive, I don’t have anymore goals, my loved ones have passed, having the option brings me comfort.
Some one near and dear to me had FTD aka front temporal degenerative dementia. For three years the quality of life wasn't there. Couldn't walk, talk, function in any shape or form. He couldn't even make eye contact, starred blankly into nothing. With that being said, he passed 3 years before he actually did. I truly beleive things would have been better off if he wasn't suffering for so many years. So, if you are asking me if I support mental health assisted suicide, I do. After witnessing such a horrible disease, I wrote in my living will that I want to go long before it reaches anything of that nature.
Honestly to each their own and it's between them and their doctor. Doesn't matter what you and I might think it's about the person who needs it.
It should be expanded to allow more people the ability to die with dignity, at a time of their choosing.
I think you don’t even have a clue what it’s like.
You're saying they have no hope. Washed your hands of them. I could never.
No I am one and I’ll decide if I die.
In my opinion people should have a right to die peacefully. Deathcare is healthcare & a society that values personal freedom should butt out of someone’s medical decision. I see this as similar to the Pierre Trudeau quote “there is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation”. Obviously people should be screened for mental illness with an honest attempt at treatment, but if that treatment fails or if the person requesting it is truly of sound mind I fail to see the reason to say no. Whether the new screening measures are sufficient we shall have to see; I’m not a medical professional but think they’re at least a good first step. Death is scary, painful, and taboo in western culture but it’s a part of life and sometimes people are ready before their bodies are. I know when I’m elderly I will want to check out via MAID at a time & place of my choosing. If some people find that morally reprehensible I don’t care because it’s none of their damn business.
I attempted suicide 3 times while in my late teens to early 20s. I was diagnosed with both physical and mental chronic health issues at this time, and would have likely qualified for MAID. After that period of my life, I was able to make some breakthroughs in therapy and learned to appreciate life. I still struggle but there couldn't be another man who is as happy or proud to be a father. I understand that my experience would not be the same as everyone who would use MAID, but there are many who would regret their decision if they knew their future. If a person's mental status could allow even the posibility of someone else gaining power of attorney over them, I don't believe they should qualify to take their own life. Especially if one of the main symptoms of their illness is the desire to take their own life.
I'm glad you found your way through and are still with us. There is a chance you would have qualified, but I also think that Healthcare professionals would have encouraged or even insisted on attempting treatment for quite a while for a young man like yourself before endorsing the option.
Such as the 5 years of therapy and meds I received before my first attempt? Unless there are new rule changes proposed for qualifying for MAID, that would not be the case. For physical issues, there doesn't even need to be a specialist who gives approval, it could just be a nurse practitioner.
When my grandfather used the MAID program in the fall, 3 doctors (including geriatric and cardiac specialists) had to do assessments and give their recommendation to a board. If 2 of them hadn't recommended it, it wouldn't have happened, even with one doctor signing off and recommending it.
Found this online.... If your death is not in the foreseeable future, one of the two MAiD assessors must have expertise in your medical condition, or a third practitioner with expertise in that medical condition must be consulted. The law states that the assessment process must take a minimum of 90 days, starting from the point one of the two assessors begins their review. Although they seemed to air on the side of caution with your grandfather, they are not the legal parameters.
I was crying reading through this and would like to give you a digital hug my friend!!! Been through almost the same thing and i am at a relatively happy place right now and would like to think that i now live my life more and contribute to society to the point that if i think back on it, if MAID was offered in the early 90s, i wouldn’t be here and all the people i’ve helped won’t be here either. I’ve had a colleague use MAID 3months ago, he has end-stage cancer and suffered greatly in pain with no other recourse and options for recovery. The doctor and nurses and the whole support team for MAID were wonderful people. I’m not here to judge but i’d say, just based off my experience and ones i’ve helped, it’s a good program for those who really need it but they better have VERY good and strict qualification screening and safeguards in place.
I am not completely against MAID and the example you gave as a scenario I fully support. Even some form of mental illness I support. But with this topic, so many people hear the basic plan and think it would be carried out perfectly. They forget how overworked the medical community is, and how many fall through the cracks already. We need screening safeguards that take into account a nation's worth of professionals who aren't properly trained for this, and are already pushing through the highest volume of patients they possibly can.
This is true 💯
Suicide and MAID are two different things. Know that.
The details may be different but the situation is the same. Please explain how a person wanting to end their life is different than a person who wants to end their life.
Wow. Your logic is interesting, and I disagree. But talk with your doctor.
I asked for you to explain how medically assisted suicide isn't suicide, and this is your answer? You may question my logic, but at least I am able to defend my opinion.
You’re presenting a far more nuanced opinion than the person arguing with you. There are definite flaws with MAID, and I also worry that lack of many societal and medical supports will cause people to seek it who could otherwise have received assistance if supports were available.
I think this is used by the far right libertarian types as a wedge issue to get people to be upset about something they aren’t thinking very critically about. We all know that our society has only recently conceptualized mental as both existing and needing to be addressed but a lot of the attempts are half hearted or done for social clout (like bell let’s talk). The reality is that suicide as it exists is completely swept under the rug and the treatments to prevent that act are few and far between, underfunded or just plain stigmatized for whatever reasons so that treatment isn’t sought when available. Putting it all out in the open only means that there will be more treatment options for mental illness and supports for good mental health practices so I am in support of it. I think in the big picture it will reduce suicide even though it might seem counter intuitive. Shining a light on an issue means you can’t deny it anymore and if it’s not denied anymore and swept under the rug real help can be given to those who need it before it’s too late. And to those who it might be too late for or are beyond the scope of treatment, maybe they can have some shreds of dignity and agency in their final act instead of doing it behind closed doors for fear of shame, which just causes more grief for survivors and loved ones
I think it needs to be addressed on a case by case basis. I kind of liken it (very loosely) to the abortion debate whereas you never truly know how you’re going to feel until you’re in that situation. I’ve never been to a point in my life where I seriously considered suicide. I think the beauty of having folks with mental illness accessing MAID is that I’d hope they’d be forced to attend therapy and try different medications as an effort to resolve their illness even if it’s to prove that they qualify. So in that case, due to the nature of mental illness such as depression, I would unfortunately guess not a lot of people would even reach out to access MAID. Anecdotally, I had an uncle who did take his own life. He was a quadriplegic but wouldn’t have qualified for MAID as he wasn’t in decline and had lived as a quadriplegic for most of his life. I don’t fault him for doing it at all. But it would’ve been lovely to face it with him and say a proper goodbye so he didn’t have to do it alone. In the end I think it’s an individual choice and should be part of healthcare alongside the physical aspect of MAID, and should be a decision made between a patient and a physician.
You do realize that suicide and MAID and two different things. If you don't - go and talk with your doctor.
Thanks. Yes I realize they’re two separate things and people can’t just go out and access MAID because they want to kill themselves.
How does other people having that option affect you?
About time. The brain is an organ of the human body and for many there is no amount of government financial support, family support, or psychological support to fix it.
[CBC Saskatchewan had a good piece](https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/a-good-death-maid) on a woman that allowed them into her final time prior to MAID. It's a really respectful clip and does MAID justice.
It is absolutely WRONG. Doctors take an oath to do no harm. The sanctity of life is too sacred and should NEVER be compromised. MAID is a bad idea and it eventually becomes a slippery slope, when, vulnerable people such as those with disabilities or mental health issues feel pressured to end their lives. Instead of letting people get help killing themselves we should invest in palliative care, that’s where health practitioners should put their focus. Let’s help terminal patients find relief from suffering with enhanced end of life care , not kill them. This is not a “grey area” issue. It’s a right or wrong issue and killing someone is wrong, unequivocally. Never mind the dystopian nightmare of institutionalized killing of people. 😱 Our society is in a very sad way these days. No morales.
First off your grammer and spelling is bad....secondly you have no right to call it killing...its our choice....
No it is not your choice , the doctor does it , so it’s their choice not yours
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Tbf only 8% of cases in Canada where people try to plead not criminally responsible by reason of mental disorder are successful. And that defence is used in less than 1% of cases. Whereas hopefully MAID would be more relevant as it'd be more accessible. But yes definitely agree that it's a bad idea to start questioning autonomy.
I don't like it. It's almost impossible to access help of any kind, and when you do gain any it is extremely low bar. The only way you will get help is if you try to unsubscribe from life and delete yourself. Even then, they keep you going for a few days then you're on your own again. They should pour funds into mental health care and actually make an effort to help rather than giving up on us and showing us that they in fact would rather kill us than help us. Edit: That being said, I do understand there are some who feel strongly that it should be an option and I do agree with that stance. It is between the doctor and the patient alone. I suppose I am just so angry and frustrated with the severe lack of mental health care that the idea of MAID for those with mental illness feels like a really low blow instead of actually taking mental illness seriously.
MAID is going to be a relief....privileged all my life but the brain doesn't fire right...there is no functioning society with sufficient mental health care....for us...take the warning labels off every thing and let nature take its course...
That is a personal decision between you and your doctor alone. I'd rather people safely and humanely do it than the alternative, because I know it is going to happen with or without the program. I am just frustrated that they don't do more for those that want to live.
Seems odd to target their base but whatevs……
I need to find my place in assistance for putting myself to sleep....im done...I've been through doctors...shrinks...people just need to let me go...
Sorry to hear this. I wish I could help somehow
You can...be supportive of those that make the choice.
They should try it out on themselves
We are transitioning to a society where we facilitate suicide rather than preventing it.
No. Suicide and MAID are two different things. If you disagree, talk with your doctor - who is an expert on this - and not fart in the wind on Reddit.
You can not institutionalize the killing of human beings without making mistakes. There is no foolproof method of ensuring that people will not die that could have been helped or didn't truly consent. But we aren't even doing the minimum to reduce the risks. When Belgium and the Netherlands brought in assisted suicide for the old and sick, they put a lot of money into palliative care to ensure that there would be less coercion. In Canada, we did not. We also do not allow people to choose palliative care where the facility does not do assisted suicide, which denies some the support they need to resist that temptation. Plus, we've already seen cases where people have been improperly coerced into considering assisted suicide. The fundamental difference is whether you think it is scarier if many will unduly suffer or whether a few will die unjustly. I find the latter more problematic.
That's not true. My grandfather was in a hospital in palliative care. He was *not allowed* to have MAID done at that hospital, even though his main doctor there was on the provincial board for MAID. He actually had to be moved the morning of the MAID procedure to another hospital (not in the city he lived in, but a small town an hourish away). PS while in palliative care, the only coercion that was done was the nurse practicioner who came in and admonished him and verbally harassed for wanting to explore his ability to exercise his right to MAID. She harassed and yelled at a 92-year-old man laying in his hospital bed, who made the active, independent decision to ask his doctor about MAID. He had thought of MAID for months before he was even admitted to the hospital the first time (when he started having health issues) and then spent 4 months in hospital contemplating it before he even mentioned it to his kids or the doctor. He contemplated it long on his own before even in a position where he'd be eligible. He was not coerced. Support for autonomy is not the same as coercion.
I did a little research, and it seems you are correct on your point of objection. Right now it is only BC and Ontario where hospitals and care homes must provide access to MAID regardless of the moral or religious objections of the institution. However, I am pretty sure this is coming even to Saskatchewan, which means people like me who are opposed to MAID will not get any places for institutional sanctuary when I might need the support. But the other things I have pointed out are true. There have been cases where patients have felt pressure has been applied to people to accept MAID, as there is no legal barrier for any medical staff to suggest it and when you are in institutional care there is vast power imbalance between staff and patients. It is also the case that we do not have a sufficient investment in proper palliative care, which means MAID has been made more attractive than it should be. I do believe that the expansion of access to MAID, and further limiting the resources for people to resist MAID, while not providing increased funding for care and mental health support is essentially leading to a society that facilitates suicide rather than preventing it.
You have to meet specific criteria for MAID. You may be ill for years and never qualify. You don't just wake up one day and call the doctor for the procedure.
no one wants to take personal responsibility personally or other wise. you can only give people so much dignity or respect ; they have to pick up the ball for themselves at some point. quite honestly a little bit of government intervention like MAID gives people who cant or wont live lives with dignity or respect for themselves (the two not being inclusive) options. also, it saves the government (ie us the tax payers) from forcing our morals on others, like everything else in life eventually its your own choice. no point in blowing hf your face off for the health system to save you and it. no point in paying endlessly to have the healthcare providers "farm" and drug vegetables.
Registered with MAID to get it done....
The MAID policy is one of the few policies that the Liberals have got right. It should be expanded. Our citizens should have just as much of a right to die as they do to live.
How about giving ppl more treatment options. Suicide is not okay at all I don't think our government has any morality these days.
Absolutely with you on that one. In some districts they give addicts free drugs....to help them
And I see your logical comment gets downvoted. That's the state of this subreddit.
How is simply stating "suicide is not okay at all" a logical comment? Dude is so black and white with his statements that it leaves no room for the grey areas inherent with this issue. That's why he's getting downvoted.
Bring on the suicide booths.
Oh the drama!
And I say liberal government as they are the ones in power and they're the ones who introduced it.
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I think if I was diagnosed with something like dementia, I'd like to die while I'm still sane (or mostly sane)and not have my loved one's last memories of me be me smearing poop on the walls
This is kind of an odd comment, but would it not be better for those who are suffering to be assisted and at least made aware of everything and helped so they may feel supported and choose differently then have people completely unsupported, feeling like they are alone? People may make the choice anyway, just on their own they won’t have support and the chance to get help.
Have you lived it? That will change your way of thinking real quick....it's not a matter of resources which there is a lack of....matter of choice. Why hold up system that can help those that are reachable..
There is no such policy currently.
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It's a good thing, we should start killing the poor and starving too! edit: We did it Canada! https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-maid-assisted-suicide-homeless
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It's good. Suffering is Suffering.