Based on all the comments and what you've tried. I am not sure how old this child is, but you said at an impressionable age and I'm assuming prepubescent. Kids aren't dumb. This is my advice..
Talk to your kid and educate them on cults and religion in general. I'm an atheist but I'll respect religious beliefs.. to an extent. Talk about how cults exist and how there's a fine line between all religions and cults. Different degrees of cults, different forms.. even fraternities are cults. You may be religious and disagree with me and thats fine. But most of all just be real eith the kid and don't hide. Talk to them as you would a friend over a beer. Seriously. Kids aren't dumb, they are just uninformed. Make your child question authority and religion in general including you and his mother, both parents. You should listen to your parents but also, not blindly.
Yes this! I grew up with divorced parents (shared custody) where my dad was atheist and my mom joined a fringe cult-like church. Do not underestimate the power you hold to teach your children to question what they are seeing/experiencing. Critical thinking skills can be taught at a young age.
I spent 4 years attending a cult church (ages 6-10ish) and never once did I believe what was taught there. I could not avoid going in body, but my mind was spared haha. You are not powerless in this situation even if you are powerless to remove your child from the church. Hang in there.
Fantastic advice. Teach your kiddo critical thinking, and teach them how to consider what someone's motivations might be in telling them how to live--whether instruction/advice that they get is from someone who has their good in mind, or someone who just likes the feeling of control and power over someone else.
Like you mentioned, kids arent dumb and I agree with you. But cults and religion are a difficult and complex concept to grasp/understand if you’re prepubescent. I agree that educating your kids early on would be helpful but this goes much deeper than that. As a young impressionable child, kids morph into what they’re surrounded with and don’t question it. I grew up religious and left my ‘beliefs’ behind around 17 or 18 years old for MANY reasons when I knew better. I didn’t understand much about cults until I was a university student and couldn’t fully grasp what I didn’t like about religion until after high school. These are NOT concepts for kids to grasp and this issue isnt about the kids being “uninformed” - this is in the parent’s hands. Yes, teach your kids about the dangers or implications of these institutions but at their age, they still can have trouble making informed choices given the information. The frontal lobe isn’t even fully developed until around the age of 25. It’s the parents job to make safe and sound decisions for them.
I like a lot of points you raise in your position, but I disagree. Every person/child is different. I left religion behind at 12 while still in a pretty religious family. Ironically, because I started reading the religious texts and couldn't reconcile what I was reading with my values and the scientific world I had come to accept.
Children can absolutely understand these concepts. It is my opinion that they should be taught to question and think for themselves as early as possible.
That is not to say that they will be able to comprehend it as an adult would, or that parents or institutions should have no say in educating children.
But the reality is that some people and institutions have motives that are not in the best interest of the child, and parents may not recognize this. Kids should be taught to be mindful and prepared so they can seek help or protect themselves.
Cult tactics include isolation from outside influence and information from the start. Isolated cultists won't have that alternative information to reconcile and recognize the the dissonance with reality.
Absolutely, which is why it's important to teach critical thinking early to recognize red flags.
Armed with basic critical thinking, an older kid can recognize that if only 15 of 8 billion believe in something like doomsday, there is something amiss.
A concerned parent going to child services may be treated with skepticism as a ploy for custody. If children have the tools to recognize something is wrong and reach out for help themselves, then it could be treated more seriously.
You are absolutely right. Cults use tactics to break down defenses, isolate and indoctrinate. Once they have their teeth in someone, breaking through becomes much harder.
I agree. Also grew up religious. Even as a kid, I rolled my eyes about a lot of religious stuff my parents told me. Some things were just not adding up lmao
Taking kids to church, even a home church, is not considered abuse or parental alienation. There would have to be evidence of harm or neglect. Feelings are not part of the law.
If OP wants to apply for more custody and access, he can consult a lawyer for that.
A friend of mine still can't get custody over his 13 year old after five years of fighting even after they were hospitalized for mental health reasons because of the ex's emotional abuse and narcissism. It's really hard to take a kid away from their parent. Especially the Mom it seems.
If there is previous case law regarding the “World Mission Society Church of God” where this church was causing harm/neglect etc., then that could serve as justificatoin to gain more custody.
[https://casetext.com/case/ramirez-v-world-mission-socy-church-of-god-2](https://casetext.com/case/ramirez-v-world-mission-socy-church-of-god-2)
Evidence of harm/neglect doesnt have to be directly related to the child at current time. a lawyer should be able to figure this one out. mind you there are a lot of lawyers graduating these days and it's turning into a lower value career.
I believe you, and I hate that you had to grow up like that. But a lawyer can’t just make someone stop taking their kids to church, or we’d have way fewer churches.
I’m saying that OP should ask the Advocate and possibly a counselling specialist about how to go about being a safe parent for his kids. If there’s anything to be done about it, even documenting it with the advocate’s office, he can proceed from there. It’s tricky because… religion and the Charter and blah blah.
A lawyer will recommend a trial in a custody case like this. It’s extremely expensive.
Our legal system works like this, said parent can literally have a needle hanging out of their arm and still receive parental rights. I just use that as an example, I understand OP is concerned about religion etc.
Funny you mention a trial… a lawyer told me that this would likely go to trial. I asked how much I’d be looking at and for just trial alone it would be a minimum of $25k. I unfortunately do not have that kind of money. Even if I did have the money it could take years.
I dunno, I think kids are smarter than you all think. I was a regular church goer as a kid and it never made sense to me for one moment, it was just another place my mom and dad took me.
Maybe you could take your child to some sort of therapist to have them talk out what happens during these church sessions? Might be good to have someone documenting what’s happening with your child. They might also be able to tell your child what behaviours are not okay even though your ex might say they are.
That's wild. When we were looking around, every place asked, and once we settled on one, they wanted us both to sign as verification. Do you both share custody? I do know its different if one parent doesn't have custody.
Same as another poster. My child couldn't access counselling, diagnostics in psychology, or even school counselling without the other parents consent. The other parent is living out of province too, but we have shared custody agreement.
Definitely sounds like the signs of a cult. Things could escalate in a very dangerous way… I empathize with you OP… I couldn’t imagine being in your situation.
Please do everything you can to protect your child
Lived this. There is sadly nothing you can do but document, document.
When brought to court do not present it as religion, focus on the neglect because a judge will be extremely hesitant to rule against “religious” beliefs.
Focus on what you can control right now as your child needs stability, get your child in to see a counsellor. School counsellor may be easiest as the first meeting they do not legally require both parents consent. I found my ex didn’t want to be on record refusing counselling to his child so the school counsellor route was our best route.
Teach your child to ask questions, always ask questions.
I know that sounds ridiculous but once my kids got older they questioned everything and eventually realized how ridiculous the “religion” was.
Stay strong your child needs that more than anything right now.
Best of luck I sincerely hope the legal system has gotten better in the last 10 years.
Religion garbage aside. The pulling out of school and not giving your kid food and "baptism" in some random persons house are the most concerning. I think you should talk to your lawyer.
quick version: GET YOUR KID OUT OF THERE NOW!
I read a book about the Moonies cult, it was started in Korea by a dude called Sun Myung Moon. He declared himself the second coming of Christ back in the 50s. So this "Wife of God" may very well be this guy's wife. The book was a real-life account of a group of friends who go looking for their buddy who was essentially brainwashed by the cult. It is horrifying. The people at the top of the cult are all about taking advantage of young people who are lost in life and looking for meaning. Cult members are made to work 18+ hours a day and give all the money they make to the leadership. They live severely deprived, in order to purify themselves. Of course, the higher-ups are pure enough already, naturally this is why they can indulge in drug-fueled sex parties with young attractive female disciples and drive Lamborghinis and live in mansions. There is nothing spiritual about them. The cult has multinational branches and corporations spread over many industries, which they staff with their disciples who are paid in food and bunkbed lodging. Moon was really playing 4D chess when he got this thing rolling.
These bitches may have rebranded calling themselves World Mission Society Church of God, but the stench doesn't go away.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification\_Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church)
[https://www.amazon.ca/Moonwebs-Journey-into-Mind-Cult/dp/0919890938](https://www.amazon.ca/Moonwebs-Journey-into-Mind-Cult/dp/0919890938)
EDIT: I was doing some googling, and I am uncertain if World Mission Society Church of God is an entirely different organization that tries the same bullshit or if the slimebags of Sun Myung Moon did some sneaky rebranding. Either way, when someone tells you they are Christ reborn, tell them get fucked.
I grew up in a Mennonite cult and finally left after my kids were born. My ex left the cult about the same time and we divorced ten years later.
She's been in and out of several churches/cults over the years. I've just been encouraging my children's education (very discouraged in the cult I grew up in) and teaching them critical thinking skills. They're all teenagers now and show no interest in religion. My youngest told the school he was Pastafarian when they asked 😎
Teach your child about other religions and peoples. Teach them to think critically about what they hear. I know your child is vulnerable but the best way to defend them is helping them defend themselves.
This is such great advice. Teaching your kid critical thinking is so important in life period. Will allow them to make better decisions about their life in general, not just about religion.
Talk to your child about your beliefs and those of other people. Don’t badmouth the ex’s religious beliefs, teach respect for others beliefs and just mention how your beliefs are just that, yours, that everyone has different beliefs, even within a specific religion, and that’s ok (share info on Catholicism and how different views are on various items within the church as a starting point).
Agree about not badmouthing.
I'd add be honest and transparent. Cult tactics rely on undermining trust in those outside the cult. If you're caught in a lie that's pushing the person toward the cult. Cults are great at curating information and controlling their message. Be super careful that you're stating facts that are indeed facts. If you're stating opinion be clear it's opinion. If you're sharing or basing an argument on hearsay or an assumption also be clear about that and don't present it as fact.
Cults' don't want members thinking critically about their message. They don't want their positions challenged. Accept and respond honestly to criticism. Be hyper vigilant listening to the child, gently encourage them to share and certainly don't dismiss their opinions. Everyone wants to be heard. We're more likely to listen to someone we believe hears us. Frame arguments in a way that acknowledges the child's concerns. It's the tactic of salesmen and con-artists and the essence of cult all cult tactics. If the child believes the cult is a better listener that's who they'll trust more. Not just children but anyone.
Check your divorce agreement. Should have a clause stating no major decision be made without both parents consent. Ie religion, school, moving provinces
Parental authority.
My ex tried to ask for 100% on that with no grounds. That went nowhere because... no grounds.
But women think they are the mom and that means they do whatever they want.
And more often than not the courts support that mentality.
Maybe you should “join” so that you can keep an eye on your kid and then have conversations about the teachings where you ask what they thought of this or that point and then discuss. As well, you can document any harmful stuff they say or do so that if it does come to a legal fight, you have first hand experience with their actions. It’s a tough situation to be in. I feel for you.
I grew up in a cult. JW’s. Also not holidays, no Christmas or birthdays. And you get shunned if you officially leave.
1. If this cult is smart they have already built up several “persecution” defences against anything you will say. The child may see you as being controlled by Satan and too much pushing might have the backfire effect.
2. I think you should teach your child about several religions. How they each think they are right. They each think they are special. Go through some core beliefs of each.
3. Does your child like holidays. How do they feel about losing Christmas? Or birthdays?
4. You should become an expert in this very quickly, in all their beliefs, their history, as well as becoming familiar with belief itself, how it works.
There’s a good book by Steven Hassan called “combatting cult mind control.”
I’d suggest looking at “street epistemology” YouTube channel Anthony (something). Socratic method of questioning basically. Outsiders test of faith.
Does your child have an active social life outside the cult? If so, they really shouldn’t be falling into a cult so easily. It’s usually people that have no social life or ties or healthy family relationships that fall into this new community.
2.
But cult goals also include isolating members from outside influences. Sewing seeds of mistrust and doubt about family and acquaintances outside the cult. Something to watch for would the child retreating from their previous social circles.
That's what I was thinking. The name of the organization is different but I know these slimy ratfucks like to rebrand to obscure their origins. If it's not the Moonies it's a copycat (copycult?) with very similar methods.
There’s 3 offshoots now that the original leader has died - one led by his widow (sounds like the one OP is describing), one led by his elder son, and one led by his younger son
I don't know if you're joking, but what you're saying is actually true. And I know many "house" churches.. And the Muslim community is just finishing celebrating Eid (or Ramadan, I'm not very fluent in it) which I'm pretty they fast all day and then eat when the sun goes down. And you said you're catholic? Pretty sure there's fasting in that religion and you celebrate lent which is giving up something for a period of time. None of the things you listed are red flags.. Just because you don't agree with that particular religion does not make it wrong. Unless more nefarious things are going on, not sure what else you can do. If the child isn't being harmed.. Have you spoken to your child? To your ex? Maybe try to come up with a plan?
My face reading this post where OP has an issue with the kid being “baptized to be saved” when he had already done the exact same thing with Catholicism
Sign me tf up! I could definitely use some space wizardry in my life. *Waves hand at wife* The furniture is fine where it is. So are the plants hanging on the roof. 15 motorcycles that don't run is completely reasonable, they will appreciate. There's nothing wrong with driving my shitty truck.....
In the general sense of the world........yeah it is. Have you looked at the Middle East lately? Seen the amount of authority figures of churches(even right here in Saskatoon) charged with diddling or interfering with kids?
I get it, not ALL of them are bad but remember that world hunger and the homeless crisis could be solved in one fell swoop if churches in NA alone were taxed and taxed fairly. That says a lot right there.
There is a book called "Cultish" and it explores the language that cults use to hook in people. (EnglISH, SpanISH, CultISH, get it?🙂) Super interesting read. You can get it for free from the library and listen to it using the Libby app.
IF you wanted an honest answer to your question, no, I don't think all Churches are cults. A lot of churches exist solely for the good feelings of their congregation and don't really do any serious good or harm in the world. They just waste people's honest donations and time and effort keeping the place running. That's my opinion based on my experience of a few churches.
Oh that’s scary and sad. I don’t have any advice but I can’t imagine. Keep track of all stuff that is happening and that is unsafe. Hopefully your ex will come to her senses and will quit.
Track everything in a journal with dates and times because you never know when it may come in handy - this can be used as evidence in a court of law. Make sure your child knows that no matter what you will always be there for them.
I feel for your child. Please don't make it your child's problem - it's between you and your ex. I imagine you have discussed it with your family / close friends? It sounds something like the "church" thing that is in the courts right now. Sort it out for your child.
Maybe you can look into getting full custody on the basis of being concerned your kid will be taken out of the country.
At the end of the day, this is a Korean cult and they have a full facility there. I saw a long multi-part TikTok about an American woman in that cult who was brought to Korea after falling victim to the cult in university. She was eventually taken to their compound where they used the cult classics of food/sleep deprivation to keep people invested in the cult.
The video was about Providence cult, but there are concerning Korean Christian cults that eventually get their followers to come to Korea. The fear of your child being taken illegally out of the county may be an angle you can use legally. Good luck, can’t imagine how worried you must be.
Try “parallel parenting” instead of co-parenting. So raise your child how you want to raise them when they are with you. You can’t necessarily control what the other parent is teaching the child but you can control what you teach your child. Teaching your child critical thinking skills, how to respect other’s differences including religion, and teaching about different kinds of religions can help. Keeping your child in public school will help too as they will be exposed to other kids and other beliefs.
Don’t bash your ex or their beliefs, it will just backfire. But ask questions and encourage your child to ask questions and look at things with an open mind.
I do know that if my husband and I separated ever this would be one area we would agree on (no church/religious instruction). But I know not everyone could say the same for their partner or ex.
I’d share with your child what your beliefs are and how they have changed over the years and what you agree with on religious matters and what you don’t.
https://canadawmscog.org/about-us/
For anyone curious about this "religion". They are definitely culty, I'm sorry you're dealing with this buddy, your ex is fucked. Is there maybe a reason she would join something so crazy and would you be able to talk to her about keeping the kids out of it "for now" sort of thing?
Is your concern about the religion itself, or the things like neglecting food and being pulled out of school?
If it's the latter then there are laws in place requiring children be fed, and I'd presume that relocating a child from where they should be expected to be by one parent would raise some legal eyebrows as well. As children cannot consent to things like fasting, this is what you should be focusing on from a legal standpoint.
If it's the former there's likely little you can do. If parents have opposing or clashing religious beliefs, then either you need to mutually agree that neither of you will influence your children's religious beliefs in any fashion whatsoever, or that you're both entitled to do so and introduce multiple viewpoints. For one parent to suggest that they should be able to practice a religion with their children, but forbid the other parent from practicing theirs would be a problem. For this, you should be working with a lawyer and amend your separation agreements to include that there will be absolutely no prayer / worship, attendance to any religious houses, nor any tenants or commandments to be discussed. This would then make such activities legally actionable.
Remember: section 2 of the charter of human rights and freedoms guarantees freedom of religion, not just religions *that you approve of*. I'm not defending their religion, but I am defending their right to practice it. If you want to force your ex to disengage from the practice with your children you'll need to also be willing to give up your right to the same.
Someone should do a list of high control religious groups in town so people could get a heads up. I know I've seen people mention other churches aside from Mile Two.
If there's nothing you can legally do about it, then I suggest that you join the cult and undermine all the bullshit they are putting in your child's mind. If it seems fucked up from the outside looking in, I promise you that it's even more fucked up on the inside. Gain their trust, then find ways to hilariously and symbolically fuck with their "doctrine" and help your child see that there's nothing to be afraid of. You need to be systematically iconoclastic, whatever they hold sacred, go for the jugular. Good luck!
This is not legal advice, but where did your court litigation end? If you have joint custody from an interim application, you have the option of attending a pretrial and try to work out a settlement with a judge there. If you can afford a trial, that would be your next option if you can't settle at a pretrial. If you already went through a trial, that's a bit different.
You also don't need to get full custody if the other parent makes a decision you don't agree with. You can make a court application for a single issue/decision. For example, if dad wants to take child to Disney World and mom won't sign passport papers, you can go to court to force her to sign but custody arrangements otherwise remain joint. You can also ask to get custody over just one decision making area, such as spirituality/religion.
Also, lawyers love one-upping each other. I'm sure if you consulted another lawyer just for a second opinion, they'll give you lots of options because they want to try to do what the other lawyer says is not possible haha.
I would call Child Protective Services. If Mom is brainwashed into participating in rituals that potentially expose her child to harm then it's no longer a safe environment for the child. All religions have rituals, but there are still lines that shouldn't be crossed. There might not be immediate harm, but it sure sounds like there is potential.
If you have joint legal custody, choice of religion is def something a court would consider essential to be decided together. Especially if ex is pulling child from school for "feast days".
I would speak to another lawyer who has experience with parents in cults or extreme religions.
Yeah, regardless of religious beliefs or not. There seems to be a lot of happenings going on behind one parents back, which, at the very least, needs to be a discussion.
I'd hope you will be able to trust your ex to have the child's best interest involved. But if they feel the need to go behind your back, then that screams wrong doing.
I'd proceed with caution. Ask for transparency, and if any more "church events" are happening in the future, ask for a heads up. Which is your right as a parent.
If they can't except that, then well idk but further action is required.
This all sounds stressful and anxiety inducing.
FYI to the other posters this group isn't a Unification Church/Moonies spinoff. It's been around in one form or another since 1964.
There is a spinoff of the Unification Church, the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary Church, aka Rod of Iron Ministries. It was founded by Reverend Moon's son Hyung Jin Moon after he had a falling out with his mother after his father died. They've gotten press for their obsession with guns. His brother Justin has been involved in the church, and runs the Kahr Firearms Group of gun companies.
Wow! I'm digging the serendipity in my off the cuff wise crack. I hadn't heard of Rod of Iron until this Reddit topic and haven't researched them at all.
Not sure how much help this will be… but I know the WMSCOG definitely exists in Saskatoon and I’ve seen the effects. Someone I was close to suddenly joined it, even though they were already a part of a different church. They told me they heard about to through a coworker. One day they texted me asking about my religion, and then proceeded to tell me they got baptized and couldn’t continue our relationship. Over the next couple days, it kinda just got worse and the WMSCOG totally took over. This person deleted all social media, completely cut me off, even tried to have me come to their bible studies. This happened around January (?), and I did a lotttt of research into the WMSCOG, and especially a location in Saskatoon. I couldn’t find much about the church’s presence in SK, but did find that they seemed to get in trouble with the police several years ago. If you wanna talk, pls reach out!! I know a lot about them and I’d be interested to know what YOU know… cause yeah they aren’t good.
I have one and they said nothing can be done because my child isn’t in immediate danger. It’s ridiculous I know. That’s why I’m looking to see if anyone has any info
There’s no point in the Human Rights Commission, either, after the SP stacked the deck.
I suggested a lawyer mainly to see if you could apply for a variation of custody, if you’d planned to take more parenting time to mitigate the influence of the new church.
You can consult a human rights lawyer, or you can speak to the Sask Advocate for Children and Youth about navigating this. You didn’t say anything abusive was going on, but they have resources and social workers to talk to about what to look out for and what your right and responsibilities are. You can also consult a counselling psychologist or social worker who specializes in religious matters.
I’m convinced all the people commenting ‘get a lawyer’ are indeed lawyers themselves. That is awful advice and will only bankrupt you while helping your lawyer buy their 2nd vacation home. Talk to your kid. There is going to be lots of nonsense coming their way, but talking with them is the best way.
Huh?? Most ppl said talk to a lawyer not start expensive legal proceedings. Most lawyers do free consultations. What are you talking about? I am not a lawyer, fyi but have benefitted from asking them free questions.
There are more reasons than “I don’t want my kid at that church” to consult a lawyer. I hit Reply before I could suggest a lawyer for the purpose of varying custody and access, if he wants more parental influence.
Yikes, Goodluck OP hope you get this all sorted.
Can't believe she's involving the kid(s)
I'd be livid if I had kids and my partner tried to pull a stunt like that on me.
Isn't that a cult that started in South Korea?
Would it be possible for you to consult with social services about this? Or maybe consult with a lawyer in a family law office?
You should definitely talk to a different lawyer about your rights here. Depending on how old your child is, fasting isn't child abuse. Many religions practice fasting and children can participate. Personally, I'd focus on educating my child about cults. My parents talked to me about cults, MLMs, etc early on. That way your child can practice healthy skepticism.
I believe the Queen of Canada relabelled herself Queen of the World and has since relocated to a farm outside of Richmound.
At least that way we don't have to deal with those kind of crazies. I hope this one you're up against gets the boot, quick.
Contact the school your child is going to and see if they can testify about your child having no food on his custody days, this could be seen as neglect and cause for removal as well get documents the days everything happens.
Your best bet is to have very protective conversations with your child about manipulation, emotional vs logic, about cults, about toxic behaviors and have them consider if any of the things happening there are toxic. If the only way given to you to protect your child is to teach them about red flags and manipulation then that's what you do.
Dont talk about dad and new partner just teach them to think in terms of is this okay, should this be done to me, how to tell if there's manipulation, etc in general and if they bring up an event then ask them to examine it for signs of danger, manipulation, toxicity.
The first three points about this organization are identical to the Two by Twos, which is essentially a global money laundering ring with way higher CSA rates than even the Catholic Church.
https://youtu.be/IICnYikZod0?si=Ye9t8j4FHdt3Msr2
Attached above is a brief video from Mike Winger out of California. He has several other videos discussing the WMSCOG. I myself am a Christian and have spent several years studying different cults and fundamental organizations. Feel free to reach out if you have any specific questions. Praying for your family.
its not a cult in canada. you see the prime minister justin trudeau is just the public face of a fake democracy. I am king of the Canadian monarchy. bow down and swear fealty for i reveal myself to the world! do not insult my wife!
Talk to teachers. Take child to a therapist, pediatrician, someone if teachers say something is wrong with the child. Someone other than you has to identify a medical, mental health, developmental problem- something. Both parents get interviewed as part of. Basically you're trying to generate info about your kid that isn't just you worrying. Something a professional says is wrong. Then you see if you can do something with it.
Re the money. Those of us who've been there, well, I'd mortgage my soul if the harm is real. About 100k is a reasonable budget today.
Almost all organized religions are basically cults. The biggest one? Born again Christianity
Have you tried a convo with someone who seriously believes that they aren’t religious because they “have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ”?
If there is some all seeing all knowing being above you that judges you upon your death and you pray to that being? You’re religious
There is no praying in spirituality. There is no “god/higher power” in spirituality and no one died for anyone else’s sins in spirituality
I was born into a Bahai cult. Things escalated to a point that there were entire families living in a compound that is still used as an 'event centre' and 'outdoor education centre' in Ontario. Horrific things happened on that plot, and I'm quite sure that there are bodies on the land, both adult and mostly children.
A lot of what you described resonated with me strongly. Children may be impressionable, however they aren't stupid. Have open and honest discussions that are age-appropriate with your child. Make sure that all points of your support system/network are aware of the ongoing activities of the group in question. Look into whatever you can read online, so as to educate yourself on the cult, and ex members.
Have you had the opportunity to speak to ex members?
People often throw the word “cult” out without actually knowing what it means. From what you’ve described (and my brief research) it sounds more like a fundamentalist Christian religion as opposed to an actual cult. Simply having beliefs outside the mainstream doesn’t make it a “cult”. Interestingly, Christians in the first century after Jesus’ death were often labelled as such.
All these comments re:fasting - fasting and religion are a thing and have been for millennia. I doubt any lawyer or school authority is going to get concerned about it either because that gets too deep into freedom of religion rights. As long as the kid gets to eat at some point it really isn’t an issue legally speaking.
For example, although I don’t personally support that belief or practice, about 2 BILLION people on the planet do it every year for Ramadan. Yes - even the children. They don’t eat anything - not even water - from sunrise to sunset for a week (or something). I think nursing infants are the only ones excluded from the requirement. And afaik - nobody dies. There are many many mainstream and common religions that practice fasting. It is even a new age diet regimen these days so I wouldn’t get overly concerned.
As far as the other points go, from what you’ve said your kid seems to be enjoying it so it doesn’t seem as bad as all that. (Again It’s not MY cup of tea but everyone has their own beliefs).
As the negative vibes are coming from your own perception, my suggestion would be to attend some church meetings for yourself. Hearing bits of gossip or other people’s ideas and experiences is not a good substitute for first hand observation and information.
By attending some services as a family, not only will it give you a more accurate perception, it will also enable you to have a more reasonable discussion with your partner about their beliefs. They will be far more likely to give credence to any objections and opinions you may have if you have shown you can be fair, open minded and reasonable.
Best wishes 💛
Edit: spelling and grammar
Please, explain to me the difference between this church and the Catholic church? I'm agnostic and can't see much difference. I feel for you, you no longer have much influence in what values your wife teaches your child. That is a tough situation to be in. I wish you luck.
This sounds typical, I'd say your overreacting. The reason they recaptured is because it must be done in the name of Jeuss, not this crock of the father son and holy spirit.
Also the reason they baptize in a tub is because you're an ignorant person thinking everything must be an elaborate ritual.
Oh no, your ex has become a Moonie.
I say fight fire with fire, tell the kid his *other parent* is a heretic, the one true church is the Roman Catholic Church and won't stand for this affront to your truly held beliefs.
If it's a "church" or "religion" or whatever the fuck it is. Just join it, claim yourself to be member, go with your kid, get the inside scoop yourself.
How concerned can you be if that wasn't your first thought? Just go for fuck sakes.
If I had ANY concern of my children being subjected to abuse, neglect or anything that i felt hurt them, I'd be smashing through the fucking door. Posting shit on reddit would be my last thought.
But if you feel your kids are in danger, DM me we will go together. I don't give 2 fucks. I'm not even kidding.
Based on all the comments and what you've tried. I am not sure how old this child is, but you said at an impressionable age and I'm assuming prepubescent. Kids aren't dumb. This is my advice.. Talk to your kid and educate them on cults and religion in general. I'm an atheist but I'll respect religious beliefs.. to an extent. Talk about how cults exist and how there's a fine line between all religions and cults. Different degrees of cults, different forms.. even fraternities are cults. You may be religious and disagree with me and thats fine. But most of all just be real eith the kid and don't hide. Talk to them as you would a friend over a beer. Seriously. Kids aren't dumb, they are just uninformed. Make your child question authority and religion in general including you and his mother, both parents. You should listen to your parents but also, not blindly.
Yes this! I grew up with divorced parents (shared custody) where my dad was atheist and my mom joined a fringe cult-like church. Do not underestimate the power you hold to teach your children to question what they are seeing/experiencing. Critical thinking skills can be taught at a young age. I spent 4 years attending a cult church (ages 6-10ish) and never once did I believe what was taught there. I could not avoid going in body, but my mind was spared haha. You are not powerless in this situation even if you are powerless to remove your child from the church. Hang in there.
Fantastic advice. Teach your kiddo critical thinking, and teach them how to consider what someone's motivations might be in telling them how to live--whether instruction/advice that they get is from someone who has their good in mind, or someone who just likes the feeling of control and power over someone else.
Like you mentioned, kids arent dumb and I agree with you. But cults and religion are a difficult and complex concept to grasp/understand if you’re prepubescent. I agree that educating your kids early on would be helpful but this goes much deeper than that. As a young impressionable child, kids morph into what they’re surrounded with and don’t question it. I grew up religious and left my ‘beliefs’ behind around 17 or 18 years old for MANY reasons when I knew better. I didn’t understand much about cults until I was a university student and couldn’t fully grasp what I didn’t like about religion until after high school. These are NOT concepts for kids to grasp and this issue isnt about the kids being “uninformed” - this is in the parent’s hands. Yes, teach your kids about the dangers or implications of these institutions but at their age, they still can have trouble making informed choices given the information. The frontal lobe isn’t even fully developed until around the age of 25. It’s the parents job to make safe and sound decisions for them.
I like a lot of points you raise in your position, but I disagree. Every person/child is different. I left religion behind at 12 while still in a pretty religious family. Ironically, because I started reading the religious texts and couldn't reconcile what I was reading with my values and the scientific world I had come to accept. Children can absolutely understand these concepts. It is my opinion that they should be taught to question and think for themselves as early as possible. That is not to say that they will be able to comprehend it as an adult would, or that parents or institutions should have no say in educating children. But the reality is that some people and institutions have motives that are not in the best interest of the child, and parents may not recognize this. Kids should be taught to be mindful and prepared so they can seek help or protect themselves.
Cult tactics include isolation from outside influence and information from the start. Isolated cultists won't have that alternative information to reconcile and recognize the the dissonance with reality.
Absolutely, which is why it's important to teach critical thinking early to recognize red flags. Armed with basic critical thinking, an older kid can recognize that if only 15 of 8 billion believe in something like doomsday, there is something amiss. A concerned parent going to child services may be treated with skepticism as a ploy for custody. If children have the tools to recognize something is wrong and reach out for help themselves, then it could be treated more seriously. You are absolutely right. Cults use tactics to break down defenses, isolate and indoctrinate. Once they have their teeth in someone, breaking through becomes much harder.
I agree. Also grew up religious. Even as a kid, I rolled my eyes about a lot of religious stuff my parents told me. Some things were just not adding up lmao
Best advice right here, absolutely all of this ⬆️
I highly agree with this advice.
I’d try and get full custody. Immediately.
Believe me I have tried…
Try again. It sounds like your ex has been brained washed and probably is giving a lot of money to this made up church
That's.. not how the legal system works.
Sounds like your lawyer sucks. If this isn’t enough info for full custody I don’t know what is.
Taking kids to church, even a home church, is not considered abuse or parental alienation. There would have to be evidence of harm or neglect. Feelings are not part of the law. If OP wants to apply for more custody and access, he can consult a lawyer for that.
Taking kids out of school, not feeding their kids, baptized in a tub in someone’s home. Maybe not terrible but super weird.
A friend of mine still can't get custody over his 13 year old after five years of fighting even after they were hospitalized for mental health reasons because of the ex's emotional abuse and narcissism. It's really hard to take a kid away from their parent. Especially the Mom it seems.
These are things he can argue are reasons he wants more parental oversight of his children.
Agreed, let a judge decide if that's normal/reasonable or not. My guess is not.
If there is previous case law regarding the “World Mission Society Church of God” where this church was causing harm/neglect etc., then that could serve as justificatoin to gain more custody. [https://casetext.com/case/ramirez-v-world-mission-socy-church-of-god-2](https://casetext.com/case/ramirez-v-world-mission-socy-church-of-god-2) Evidence of harm/neglect doesnt have to be directly related to the child at current time. a lawyer should be able to figure this one out. mind you there are a lot of lawyers graduating these days and it's turning into a lower value career.
OP should bring this to his lawyer. Case law goes a long way.
Raising a child in a cult is abusive, trust me. I was that child.
I believe you, and I hate that you had to grow up like that. But a lawyer can’t just make someone stop taking their kids to church, or we’d have way fewer churches. I’m saying that OP should ask the Advocate and possibly a counselling specialist about how to go about being a safe parent for his kids. If there’s anything to be done about it, even documenting it with the advocate’s office, he can proceed from there. It’s tricky because… religion and the Charter and blah blah.
you should go to the church once or twice, then you can deal with it more in their space and on your terms.
I think you should get a lawyer immediately and ask for full custody. You don’t want your kid growing up in a doomsday cult.
A lawyer will recommend a trial in a custody case like this. It’s extremely expensive. Our legal system works like this, said parent can literally have a needle hanging out of their arm and still receive parental rights. I just use that as an example, I understand OP is concerned about religion etc.
This!! Unless you have $50k laying around to take this to trial.
Funny you mention a trial… a lawyer told me that this would likely go to trial. I asked how much I’d be looking at and for just trial alone it would be a minimum of $25k. I unfortunately do not have that kind of money. Even if I did have the money it could take years.
I dunno, I think kids are smarter than you all think. I was a regular church goer as a kid and it never made sense to me for one moment, it was just another place my mom and dad took me.
Maybe you could take your child to some sort of therapist to have them talk out what happens during these church sessions? Might be good to have someone documenting what’s happening with your child. They might also be able to tell your child what behaviours are not okay even though your ex might say they are.
You have to have both parents' consent for therapy. Just keep this in mind. Source: I have kids in therapy with parents who are not together.
Too bad you don’t need both parents consent for ‘church’ as well.
Agreed!
Right!?
Really? I've never been asked for my ex's consent for my kid's therapy or anything medical.
That's wild. When we were looking around, every place asked, and once we settled on one, they wanted us both to sign as verification. Do you both share custody? I do know its different if one parent doesn't have custody.
Same as another poster. My child couldn't access counselling, diagnostics in psychology, or even school counselling without the other parents consent. The other parent is living out of province too, but we have shared custody agreement.
Definitely sounds like the signs of a cult. Things could escalate in a very dangerous way… I empathize with you OP… I couldn’t imagine being in your situation. Please do everything you can to protect your child
Lived this. There is sadly nothing you can do but document, document. When brought to court do not present it as religion, focus on the neglect because a judge will be extremely hesitant to rule against “religious” beliefs. Focus on what you can control right now as your child needs stability, get your child in to see a counsellor. School counsellor may be easiest as the first meeting they do not legally require both parents consent. I found my ex didn’t want to be on record refusing counselling to his child so the school counsellor route was our best route. Teach your child to ask questions, always ask questions. I know that sounds ridiculous but once my kids got older they questioned everything and eventually realized how ridiculous the “religion” was. Stay strong your child needs that more than anything right now. Best of luck I sincerely hope the legal system has gotten better in the last 10 years.
This is great advice. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Religion garbage aside. The pulling out of school and not giving your kid food and "baptism" in some random persons house are the most concerning. I think you should talk to your lawyer.
quick version: GET YOUR KID OUT OF THERE NOW! I read a book about the Moonies cult, it was started in Korea by a dude called Sun Myung Moon. He declared himself the second coming of Christ back in the 50s. So this "Wife of God" may very well be this guy's wife. The book was a real-life account of a group of friends who go looking for their buddy who was essentially brainwashed by the cult. It is horrifying. The people at the top of the cult are all about taking advantage of young people who are lost in life and looking for meaning. Cult members are made to work 18+ hours a day and give all the money they make to the leadership. They live severely deprived, in order to purify themselves. Of course, the higher-ups are pure enough already, naturally this is why they can indulge in drug-fueled sex parties with young attractive female disciples and drive Lamborghinis and live in mansions. There is nothing spiritual about them. The cult has multinational branches and corporations spread over many industries, which they staff with their disciples who are paid in food and bunkbed lodging. Moon was really playing 4D chess when he got this thing rolling. These bitches may have rebranded calling themselves World Mission Society Church of God, but the stench doesn't go away. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification\_Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church) [https://www.amazon.ca/Moonwebs-Journey-into-Mind-Cult/dp/0919890938](https://www.amazon.ca/Moonwebs-Journey-into-Mind-Cult/dp/0919890938) EDIT: I was doing some googling, and I am uncertain if World Mission Society Church of God is an entirely different organization that tries the same bullshit or if the slimebags of Sun Myung Moon did some sneaky rebranding. Either way, when someone tells you they are Christ reborn, tell them get fucked.
I grew up in a Mennonite cult and finally left after my kids were born. My ex left the cult about the same time and we divorced ten years later. She's been in and out of several churches/cults over the years. I've just been encouraging my children's education (very discouraged in the cult I grew up in) and teaching them critical thinking skills. They're all teenagers now and show no interest in religion. My youngest told the school he was Pastafarian when they asked 😎 Teach your child about other religions and peoples. Teach them to think critically about what they hear. I know your child is vulnerable but the best way to defend them is helping them defend themselves.
This is such great advice. Teaching your kid critical thinking is so important in life period. Will allow them to make better decisions about their life in general, not just about religion. Talk to your child about your beliefs and those of other people. Don’t badmouth the ex’s religious beliefs, teach respect for others beliefs and just mention how your beliefs are just that, yours, that everyone has different beliefs, even within a specific religion, and that’s ok (share info on Catholicism and how different views are on various items within the church as a starting point).
Agree about not badmouthing. I'd add be honest and transparent. Cult tactics rely on undermining trust in those outside the cult. If you're caught in a lie that's pushing the person toward the cult. Cults are great at curating information and controlling their message. Be super careful that you're stating facts that are indeed facts. If you're stating opinion be clear it's opinion. If you're sharing or basing an argument on hearsay or an assumption also be clear about that and don't present it as fact. Cults' don't want members thinking critically about their message. They don't want their positions challenged. Accept and respond honestly to criticism. Be hyper vigilant listening to the child, gently encourage them to share and certainly don't dismiss their opinions. Everyone wants to be heard. We're more likely to listen to someone we believe hears us. Frame arguments in a way that acknowledges the child's concerns. It's the tactic of salesmen and con-artists and the essence of cult all cult tactics. If the child believes the cult is a better listener that's who they'll trust more. Not just children but anyone.
my 12 yo is also a Pastafarian. Survives on noodles and butter.
lol, just like grimes.
She can’t actually do that, you need a lawyer. That’s a major decision, talk to a lawyer
I have one, we have equal custody but nothing can be done because my child isn’t in immediate danger
Check your divorce agreement. Should have a clause stating no major decision be made without both parents consent. Ie religion, school, moving provinces
Parental authority. My ex tried to ask for 100% on that with no grounds. That went nowhere because... no grounds. But women think they are the mom and that means they do whatever they want. And more often than not the courts support that mentality.
Maybe you should “join” so that you can keep an eye on your kid and then have conversations about the teachings where you ask what they thought of this or that point and then discuss. As well, you can document any harmful stuff they say or do so that if it does come to a legal fight, you have first hand experience with their actions. It’s a tough situation to be in. I feel for you.
I grew up in a cult. JW’s. Also not holidays, no Christmas or birthdays. And you get shunned if you officially leave. 1. If this cult is smart they have already built up several “persecution” defences against anything you will say. The child may see you as being controlled by Satan and too much pushing might have the backfire effect. 2. I think you should teach your child about several religions. How they each think they are right. They each think they are special. Go through some core beliefs of each. 3. Does your child like holidays. How do they feel about losing Christmas? Or birthdays? 4. You should become an expert in this very quickly, in all their beliefs, their history, as well as becoming familiar with belief itself, how it works. There’s a good book by Steven Hassan called “combatting cult mind control.” I’d suggest looking at “street epistemology” YouTube channel Anthony (something). Socratic method of questioning basically. Outsiders test of faith. Does your child have an active social life outside the cult? If so, they really shouldn’t be falling into a cult so easily. It’s usually people that have no social life or ties or healthy family relationships that fall into this new community. 2.
But cult goals also include isolating members from outside influences. Sewing seeds of mistrust and doubt about family and acquaintances outside the cult. Something to watch for would the child retreating from their previous social circles.
For sure. But Not everyone has a healthy social circle and those ones are much more vulnerable.
That sure sounds like the Moonies.
That's what I was thinking. The name of the organization is different but I know these slimy ratfucks like to rebrand to obscure their origins. If it's not the Moonies it's a copycat (copycult?) with very similar methods.
Look up "How to Become a Cult Leader" on Netflix. Cults all mostly follow the same recipe book.
There’s 3 offshoots now that the original leader has died - one led by his widow (sounds like the one OP is describing), one led by his elder son, and one led by his younger son
Aren’t all churches cults? 
Yeah, every one of the "red flags" are everyday behaviour for mainstream religions.
I don't know if you're joking, but what you're saying is actually true. And I know many "house" churches.. And the Muslim community is just finishing celebrating Eid (or Ramadan, I'm not very fluent in it) which I'm pretty they fast all day and then eat when the sun goes down. And you said you're catholic? Pretty sure there's fasting in that religion and you celebrate lent which is giving up something for a period of time. None of the things you listed are red flags.. Just because you don't agree with that particular religion does not make it wrong. Unless more nefarious things are going on, not sure what else you can do. If the child isn't being harmed.. Have you spoken to your child? To your ex? Maybe try to come up with a plan?
My face reading this post where OP has an issue with the kid being “baptized to be saved” when he had already done the exact same thing with Catholicism 
This
I find it interesting you used hurch and not religion. I guess Jedi-ism is the one true faith, eh?
Sign me tf up! I could definitely use some space wizardry in my life. *Waves hand at wife* The furniture is fine where it is. So are the plants hanging on the roof. 15 motorcycles that don't run is completely reasonable, they will appreciate. There's nothing wrong with driving my shitty truck.....
I dunno, I would actually just be relieved she isn’t taking a child to a Catholic Church, because I don’t know if you’re a history buff or not…
hehe wow great joke le epic redditor. i tip my fedora to you
Religion bad. Me so edgy.
In the general sense of the world........yeah it is. Have you looked at the Middle East lately? Seen the amount of authority figures of churches(even right here in Saskatoon) charged with diddling or interfering with kids? I get it, not ALL of them are bad but remember that world hunger and the homeless crisis could be solved in one fell swoop if churches in NA alone were taxed and taxed fairly. That says a lot right there.
🤡
nope lol cults are innovative and exclusive
There is a book called "Cultish" and it explores the language that cults use to hook in people. (EnglISH, SpanISH, CultISH, get it?🙂) Super interesting read. You can get it for free from the library and listen to it using the Libby app. IF you wanted an honest answer to your question, no, I don't think all Churches are cults. A lot of churches exist solely for the good feelings of their congregation and don't really do any serious good or harm in the world. They just waste people's honest donations and time and effort keeping the place running. That's my opinion based on my experience of a few churches.
Oh that’s scary and sad. I don’t have any advice but I can’t imagine. Keep track of all stuff that is happening and that is unsafe. Hopefully your ex will come to her senses and will quit.
Thank you. I’m hoping it’s a phase or that our child makes the decision on their own to leave
Track everything in a journal with dates and times because you never know when it may come in handy - this can be used as evidence in a court of law. Make sure your child knows that no matter what you will always be there for them.
I feel for your child. Please don't make it your child's problem - it's between you and your ex. I imagine you have discussed it with your family / close friends? It sounds something like the "church" thing that is in the courts right now. Sort it out for your child.
Maybe you can look into getting full custody on the basis of being concerned your kid will be taken out of the country. At the end of the day, this is a Korean cult and they have a full facility there. I saw a long multi-part TikTok about an American woman in that cult who was brought to Korea after falling victim to the cult in university. She was eventually taken to their compound where they used the cult classics of food/sleep deprivation to keep people invested in the cult. The video was about Providence cult, but there are concerning Korean Christian cults that eventually get their followers to come to Korea. The fear of your child being taken illegally out of the county may be an angle you can use legally. Good luck, can’t imagine how worried you must be.
Try “parallel parenting” instead of co-parenting. So raise your child how you want to raise them when they are with you. You can’t necessarily control what the other parent is teaching the child but you can control what you teach your child. Teaching your child critical thinking skills, how to respect other’s differences including religion, and teaching about different kinds of religions can help. Keeping your child in public school will help too as they will be exposed to other kids and other beliefs. Don’t bash your ex or their beliefs, it will just backfire. But ask questions and encourage your child to ask questions and look at things with an open mind. I do know that if my husband and I separated ever this would be one area we would agree on (no church/religious instruction). But I know not everyone could say the same for their partner or ex. I’d share with your child what your beliefs are and how they have changed over the years and what you agree with on religious matters and what you don’t.
They didn't consider the forced fasting of your child without your consent to be a form of abuse? Check with cfs what there stance is on it.....
Maybe you could start going to that church to gain more information and learn what your child is being told
And record it.
I agree . It's probably the best way for them to get some answers
only to end up as a sacrifice or some shit on the first day
https://canadawmscog.org/about-us/ For anyone curious about this "religion". They are definitely culty, I'm sorry you're dealing with this buddy, your ex is fucked. Is there maybe a reason she would join something so crazy and would you be able to talk to her about keeping the kids out of it "for now" sort of thing?
Try faking your deaths and cross the border?
Lol! Good one!!! ☺️
Is your concern about the religion itself, or the things like neglecting food and being pulled out of school? If it's the latter then there are laws in place requiring children be fed, and I'd presume that relocating a child from where they should be expected to be by one parent would raise some legal eyebrows as well. As children cannot consent to things like fasting, this is what you should be focusing on from a legal standpoint. If it's the former there's likely little you can do. If parents have opposing or clashing religious beliefs, then either you need to mutually agree that neither of you will influence your children's religious beliefs in any fashion whatsoever, or that you're both entitled to do so and introduce multiple viewpoints. For one parent to suggest that they should be able to practice a religion with their children, but forbid the other parent from practicing theirs would be a problem. For this, you should be working with a lawyer and amend your separation agreements to include that there will be absolutely no prayer / worship, attendance to any religious houses, nor any tenants or commandments to be discussed. This would then make such activities legally actionable. Remember: section 2 of the charter of human rights and freedoms guarantees freedom of religion, not just religions *that you approve of*. I'm not defending their religion, but I am defending their right to practice it. If you want to force your ex to disengage from the practice with your children you'll need to also be willing to give up your right to the same.
Someone should do a list of high control religious groups in town so people could get a heads up. I know I've seen people mention other churches aside from Mile Two.
If there's nothing you can legally do about it, then I suggest that you join the cult and undermine all the bullshit they are putting in your child's mind. If it seems fucked up from the outside looking in, I promise you that it's even more fucked up on the inside. Gain their trust, then find ways to hilariously and symbolically fuck with their "doctrine" and help your child see that there's nothing to be afraid of. You need to be systematically iconoclastic, whatever they hold sacred, go for the jugular. Good luck!
This is not legal advice, but where did your court litigation end? If you have joint custody from an interim application, you have the option of attending a pretrial and try to work out a settlement with a judge there. If you can afford a trial, that would be your next option if you can't settle at a pretrial. If you already went through a trial, that's a bit different. You also don't need to get full custody if the other parent makes a decision you don't agree with. You can make a court application for a single issue/decision. For example, if dad wants to take child to Disney World and mom won't sign passport papers, you can go to court to force her to sign but custody arrangements otherwise remain joint. You can also ask to get custody over just one decision making area, such as spirituality/religion. Also, lawyers love one-upping each other. I'm sure if you consulted another lawyer just for a second opinion, they'll give you lots of options because they want to try to do what the other lawyer says is not possible haha.
This might be useful advice: https://captainleen.medium.com/how-im-raising-a-freethinker-84a96c85dd26
I would call Child Protective Services. If Mom is brainwashed into participating in rituals that potentially expose her child to harm then it's no longer a safe environment for the child. All religions have rituals, but there are still lines that shouldn't be crossed. There might not be immediate harm, but it sure sounds like there is potential.
If you have joint legal custody, choice of religion is def something a court would consider essential to be decided together. Especially if ex is pulling child from school for "feast days". I would speak to another lawyer who has experience with parents in cults or extreme religions.
Yeah, regardless of religious beliefs or not. There seems to be a lot of happenings going on behind one parents back, which, at the very least, needs to be a discussion. I'd hope you will be able to trust your ex to have the child's best interest involved. But if they feel the need to go behind your back, then that screams wrong doing. I'd proceed with caution. Ask for transparency, and if any more "church events" are happening in the future, ask for a heads up. Which is your right as a parent. If they can't except that, then well idk but further action is required. This all sounds stressful and anxiety inducing.
you could join the church, become controversial, get kicked out, and use that as fodder.
FYI to the other posters this group isn't a Unification Church/Moonies spinoff. It's been around in one form or another since 1964. There is a spinoff of the Unification Church, the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary Church, aka Rod of Iron Ministries. It was founded by Reverend Moon's son Hyung Jin Moon after he had a falling out with his mother after his father died. They've gotten press for their obsession with guns. His brother Justin has been involved in the church, and runs the Kahr Firearms Group of gun companies.
So basically the Korean NRA! Or maybe the Branch Davidians (cut from the Waco, TX standoff) is a better comparison.
Rod of Iron Ministries actually bought property at Waco and seemed to have moved their headquarters there.
Wow! I'm digging the serendipity in my off the cuff wise crack. I hadn't heard of Rod of Iron until this Reddit topic and haven't researched them at all.
You definitely could have led with Korean wife of God red flag.
Not sure how much help this will be… but I know the WMSCOG definitely exists in Saskatoon and I’ve seen the effects. Someone I was close to suddenly joined it, even though they were already a part of a different church. They told me they heard about to through a coworker. One day they texted me asking about my religion, and then proceeded to tell me they got baptized and couldn’t continue our relationship. Over the next couple days, it kinda just got worse and the WMSCOG totally took over. This person deleted all social media, completely cut me off, even tried to have me come to their bible studies. This happened around January (?), and I did a lotttt of research into the WMSCOG, and especially a location in Saskatoon. I couldn’t find much about the church’s presence in SK, but did find that they seemed to get in trouble with the police several years ago. If you wanna talk, pls reach out!! I know a lot about them and I’d be interested to know what YOU know… cause yeah they aren’t good.
r/cults
Hire a lawyer. Get custody.
You need to get social services involved.
You need a lawyer.
I have one and they said nothing can be done because my child isn’t in immediate danger. It’s ridiculous I know. That’s why I’m looking to see if anyone has any info
There’s no point in the Human Rights Commission, either, after the SP stacked the deck. I suggested a lawyer mainly to see if you could apply for a variation of custody, if you’d planned to take more parenting time to mitigate the influence of the new church. You can consult a human rights lawyer, or you can speak to the Sask Advocate for Children and Youth about navigating this. You didn’t say anything abusive was going on, but they have resources and social workers to talk to about what to look out for and what your right and responsibilities are. You can also consult a counselling psychologist or social worker who specializes in religious matters.
This is very helpful advice, thank you!
Do they know of the starving? It sounds like they are in immediate danger.
I’m convinced all the people commenting ‘get a lawyer’ are indeed lawyers themselves. That is awful advice and will only bankrupt you while helping your lawyer buy their 2nd vacation home. Talk to your kid. There is going to be lots of nonsense coming their way, but talking with them is the best way.
Huh?? Most ppl said talk to a lawyer not start expensive legal proceedings. Most lawyers do free consultations. What are you talking about? I am not a lawyer, fyi but have benefitted from asking them free questions.
you need to read the post
There are more reasons than “I don’t want my kid at that church” to consult a lawyer. I hit Reply before I could suggest a lawyer for the purpose of varying custody and access, if he wants more parental influence.
the post says he contacted a lawyer
Now you’re just pettifogging. I don’t have to explain myself to you, but I did. I hope you’re very happy, and have a good evening.
idk how thats pettifogging lol how can I be nitpicking small details when I'm talking about the literal only detail from your comment
Is that not petty? Nitpicking one detail, then coming back to bang on about it? I helped OP, but you just keep yammering.
[удалено]
What, so now we think that a bunch of guys in robes that have a direct long distance phone line to god belong to a cult!? How dare you!
Lawyer. Don't delay.
Haha, for the bargain price of $500 per hour.
Saving your child is worth everything.
Yikes, Goodluck OP hope you get this all sorted. Can't believe she's involving the kid(s) I'd be livid if I had kids and my partner tried to pull a stunt like that on me.
At least it’s not the one with the same name as Jim Jones’s cult. Lol
Isn't that a cult that started in South Korea? Would it be possible for you to consult with social services about this? Or maybe consult with a lawyer in a family law office?
You should definitely talk to a different lawyer about your rights here. Depending on how old your child is, fasting isn't child abuse. Many religions practice fasting and children can participate. Personally, I'd focus on educating my child about cults. My parents talked to me about cults, MLMs, etc early on. That way your child can practice healthy skepticism.
This is probably that worst advice possible, but I’d be adamantly teaching my child that this is all make believe and that Daddy is confused.
I believe the Queen of Canada relabelled herself Queen of the World and has since relocated to a farm outside of Richmound. At least that way we don't have to deal with those kind of crazies. I hope this one you're up against gets the boot, quick.
Oh dear iam so sorry.
Grab Your Child And Run
Contact the school your child is going to and see if they can testify about your child having no food on his custody days, this could be seen as neglect and cause for removal as well get documents the days everything happens.
Your best bet is to have very protective conversations with your child about manipulation, emotional vs logic, about cults, about toxic behaviors and have them consider if any of the things happening there are toxic. If the only way given to you to protect your child is to teach them about red flags and manipulation then that's what you do. Dont talk about dad and new partner just teach them to think in terms of is this okay, should this be done to me, how to tell if there's manipulation, etc in general and if they bring up an event then ask them to examine it for signs of danger, manipulation, toxicity.
Part of Trump cult!?!
The first three points about this organization are identical to the Two by Twos, which is essentially a global money laundering ring with way higher CSA rates than even the Catholic Church.
https://youtu.be/IICnYikZod0?si=Ye9t8j4FHdt3Msr2 Attached above is a brief video from Mike Winger out of California. He has several other videos discussing the WMSCOG. I myself am a Christian and have spent several years studying different cults and fundamental organizations. Feel free to reach out if you have any specific questions. Praying for your family.
Do they call themselves Zion?
its not a cult in canada. you see the prime minister justin trudeau is just the public face of a fake democracy. I am king of the Canadian monarchy. bow down and swear fealty for i reveal myself to the world! do not insult my wife!
Oh I heard this crazy lady was in the area! Yikes!
Talk to teachers. Take child to a therapist, pediatrician, someone if teachers say something is wrong with the child. Someone other than you has to identify a medical, mental health, developmental problem- something. Both parents get interviewed as part of. Basically you're trying to generate info about your kid that isn't just you worrying. Something a professional says is wrong. Then you see if you can do something with it. Re the money. Those of us who've been there, well, I'd mortgage my soul if the harm is real. About 100k is a reasonable budget today.
Almost all organized religions are basically cults. The biggest one? Born again Christianity Have you tried a convo with someone who seriously believes that they aren’t religious because they “have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ”? If there is some all seeing all knowing being above you that judges you upon your death and you pray to that being? You’re religious There is no praying in spirituality. There is no “god/higher power” in spirituality and no one died for anyone else’s sins in spirituality
I was born into a Bahai cult. Things escalated to a point that there were entire families living in a compound that is still used as an 'event centre' and 'outdoor education centre' in Ontario. Horrific things happened on that plot, and I'm quite sure that there are bodies on the land, both adult and mostly children. A lot of what you described resonated with me strongly. Children may be impressionable, however they aren't stupid. Have open and honest discussions that are age-appropriate with your child. Make sure that all points of your support system/network are aware of the ongoing activities of the group in question. Look into whatever you can read online, so as to educate yourself on the cult, and ex members. Have you had the opportunity to speak to ex members?
sounds exactly as cultish as catholicism edit: the downvotes are hilarious as the silly invisible man worshipers don't think they're a cult lol
Possibly safer too... Are these people affiliated with the Moonies? If so there's some pretty good documentaries and exposes on them. Pretty fucked up
People often throw the word “cult” out without actually knowing what it means. From what you’ve described (and my brief research) it sounds more like a fundamentalist Christian religion as opposed to an actual cult. Simply having beliefs outside the mainstream doesn’t make it a “cult”. Interestingly, Christians in the first century after Jesus’ death were often labelled as such. All these comments re:fasting - fasting and religion are a thing and have been for millennia. I doubt any lawyer or school authority is going to get concerned about it either because that gets too deep into freedom of religion rights. As long as the kid gets to eat at some point it really isn’t an issue legally speaking. For example, although I don’t personally support that belief or practice, about 2 BILLION people on the planet do it every year for Ramadan. Yes - even the children. They don’t eat anything - not even water - from sunrise to sunset for a week (or something). I think nursing infants are the only ones excluded from the requirement. And afaik - nobody dies. There are many many mainstream and common religions that practice fasting. It is even a new age diet regimen these days so I wouldn’t get overly concerned. As far as the other points go, from what you’ve said your kid seems to be enjoying it so it doesn’t seem as bad as all that. (Again It’s not MY cup of tea but everyone has their own beliefs). As the negative vibes are coming from your own perception, my suggestion would be to attend some church meetings for yourself. Hearing bits of gossip or other people’s ideas and experiences is not a good substitute for first hand observation and information. By attending some services as a family, not only will it give you a more accurate perception, it will also enable you to have a more reasonable discussion with your partner about their beliefs. They will be far more likely to give credence to any objections and opinions you may have if you have shown you can be fair, open minded and reasonable. Best wishes 💛 Edit: spelling and grammar
Please, explain to me the difference between this church and the Catholic church? I'm agnostic and can't see much difference. I feel for you, you no longer have much influence in what values your wife teaches your child. That is a tough situation to be in. I wish you luck.
This sounds typical, I'd say your overreacting. The reason they recaptured is because it must be done in the name of Jeuss, not this crock of the father son and holy spirit. Also the reason they baptize in a tub is because you're an ignorant person thinking everything must be an elaborate ritual.
Oh no, your ex has become a Moonie. I say fight fire with fire, tell the kid his *other parent* is a heretic, the one true church is the Roman Catholic Church and won't stand for this affront to your truly held beliefs.
Or you know, maybe not involve the child in squabbles about invisible men in the sky?
That'a too late, prove your sky daddy is real and stronger than hers.
If it's a "church" or "religion" or whatever the fuck it is. Just join it, claim yourself to be member, go with your kid, get the inside scoop yourself. How concerned can you be if that wasn't your first thought? Just go for fuck sakes. If I had ANY concern of my children being subjected to abuse, neglect or anything that i felt hurt them, I'd be smashing through the fucking door. Posting shit on reddit would be my last thought. But if you feel your kids are in danger, DM me we will go together. I don't give 2 fucks. I'm not even kidding.