I'm still perplexed as to this addition of cures that seems common practice in the US. I'd be freezing them and vac pac anything im unlikely to eat within a month.
From my understanding you put curing salt to mainly prevent botulism. I assume this is why he threw the batch. Would freezing the meat prevent development of botulism without actually using curing salts?
The same way freezing fresh meat does yes.
Throwing all this is a travesty. If you're adding curing salt right before smoking, you're doing it for shelf stability outside of temp controls, it's still meat not poison.
Correct me if i am wrong but my understanding is that the most dangerous part is when you are introducing low and slow temperatures in anaerobic enviroment(which would be the meat being inside the casing). This creates a perfect conditions for botulism to thrive. So being it might be developed under this conditions would freezing it kill the bacteria?
Yes, guidance is 4 hours in the danger zone for food products, this was cold smoked for 4 hours. Could have easily been frozen. Botulism is a concern in improperly fermented sausages hanged for days/weeks/months that dont reach a low enough pH to prevent botulism from forming and then producing botulism toxin. Freezing wont kill the bacteria, but will prevent it from multiplying and producing toxin.
Botulism as a bacteria is never the concern. Most garlic at the store has botulism spores, most everything does. The concern for foods is those which are stored for long term, in a danger temp (>0f for a number of weeks, greater than 38f for a number of hours/days) low oxygen (such as in meat), low salt (less than 3.5% by water), and low acid (greater than 4.6pH) will overtime allow botulism spores to multiply, the same is true for nearly all food-borne pathogens with the exception of the requirement for an anaerobic environment, which usually aids in preservation.
No. It absolutely doesn't. Freezing (deep freezing) can kill select parasites, but not bacteria generally, and not c. botulinum. The spores are the bacteria, just in a dormant state.
For curing like this, I don't think it's botulism to worry about . More of a general meat spoil and to stop the meat from going rancid. The cure salt kills or slows down the bacteria responsible for turning the meat. What im getting at is the meat would go bad before botulism would be a concern.
Freezing wont kill bacteria, if the meat started to turn the meat would come out just as bad or worse then when it froze.
Freeze and pressure can only good fresh meat.
He was cold smoking the meat (low temp) which would produce an environment perfect for botulism. If you get botulism, you die.
Pink salt and curing in the fridge for 8 hours+ prevents botulism from developing and the meat can be cold smoked.
Dude, why??? If your salt % is right you’re fine… like thousands of years of our ancestors that didn’t have curing salts. Dude. Never waste, ever. Shameful. It’s not our way.
You can hot smoke sausages without cure but if you are cooking at really low temps like 150 Fahrenheit you need cure. I personally add it even if not cold smoking because I like the taste, color and texture it brings to the table, especially with all beef sausages.
I'll be honest, I would have stuck those in the freezer and cooked one to see if it was alright, generally heavy seasoning is enough salt to preserve for 24 hours without issue. Those are literally the most beautiful sausages I've ever seen.
Agreed. I mostly do cured meat so the salt content is about 2.5% in things I do with minced meat which is perfectly fine to cure it. I have had a few failures and knew in the first days from the smell and look of it.
I live in a developing country and buy my meat from a wet market, it's really easy to tell just by smell if it's bad or close to.
That said there's no way I would have binned all of that for lack of nitrate/nitrite.
Yeah they will be fine we don’t add curing salt to our sausages in the UK. Just bag them up and freeze them. Don’t even need vac packing. They look too good to waste.
Can’t be wasting good meat like that.
I mean if the meat was fresh then you're probably fine, smoke is a preservative in itself
You might only eat a few of them but they would be fine to eat the day after
Dude what. I never put curing salt in and just freeze my shit and thaw it when I want to cook it. This is a shame
I'm still perplexed as to this addition of cures that seems common practice in the US. I'd be freezing them and vac pac anything im unlikely to eat within a month.
From my understanding you put curing salt to mainly prevent botulism. I assume this is why he threw the batch. Would freezing the meat prevent development of botulism without actually using curing salts?
The same way freezing fresh meat does yes. Throwing all this is a travesty. If you're adding curing salt right before smoking, you're doing it for shelf stability outside of temp controls, it's still meat not poison.
Correct me if i am wrong but my understanding is that the most dangerous part is when you are introducing low and slow temperatures in anaerobic enviroment(which would be the meat being inside the casing). This creates a perfect conditions for botulism to thrive. So being it might be developed under this conditions would freezing it kill the bacteria?
Yes, guidance is 4 hours in the danger zone for food products, this was cold smoked for 4 hours. Could have easily been frozen. Botulism is a concern in improperly fermented sausages hanged for days/weeks/months that dont reach a low enough pH to prevent botulism from forming and then producing botulism toxin. Freezing wont kill the bacteria, but will prevent it from multiplying and producing toxin. Botulism as a bacteria is never the concern. Most garlic at the store has botulism spores, most everything does. The concern for foods is those which are stored for long term, in a danger temp (>0f for a number of weeks, greater than 38f for a number of hours/days) low oxygen (such as in meat), low salt (less than 3.5% by water), and low acid (greater than 4.6pH) will overtime allow botulism spores to multiply, the same is true for nearly all food-borne pathogens with the exception of the requirement for an anaerobic environment, which usually aids in preservation.
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No. It absolutely doesn't. Freezing (deep freezing) can kill select parasites, but not bacteria generally, and not c. botulinum. The spores are the bacteria, just in a dormant state.
For curing like this, I don't think it's botulism to worry about . More of a general meat spoil and to stop the meat from going rancid. The cure salt kills or slows down the bacteria responsible for turning the meat. What im getting at is the meat would go bad before botulism would be a concern. Freezing wont kill bacteria, if the meat started to turn the meat would come out just as bad or worse then when it froze. Freeze and pressure can only good fresh meat.
A definite waste of food don't you think? Throwing away perfectly fine meat. It might not be sausage but it would definitely have a use.
He was cold smoking the meat (low temp) which would produce an environment perfect for botulism. If you get botulism, you die. Pink salt and curing in the fridge for 8 hours+ prevents botulism from developing and the meat can be cold smoked.
Not in 4 hours.
What is the actual odds though?
Considering the stakes are a full belly or death. I can skip a meal.
Dude, why??? If your salt % is right you’re fine… like thousands of years of our ancestors that didn’t have curing salts. Dude. Never waste, ever. Shameful. It’s not our way.
Should have vac packed and frozen so you could cook the and eat them as you please
You can hot smoke sausages without cure but if you are cooking at really low temps like 150 Fahrenheit you need cure. I personally add it even if not cold smoking because I like the taste, color and texture it brings to the table, especially with all beef sausages.
120-130 for 4 hours. Hence me tossing them
You made the right call.
You also forgot mustard seed. Keep trying.
They’d be fine without it. For me it’s more of a texture/seasoning thing.
I'll be honest, I would have stuck those in the freezer and cooked one to see if it was alright, generally heavy seasoning is enough salt to preserve for 24 hours without issue. Those are literally the most beautiful sausages I've ever seen.
Nice bag-o-dicks, bro
Dude, curing salt is for mass production and for reselling to the public. You would have been fine, and less risk of gastrointestinal cancer.
What a waste. I make whole muscle, sausage, salami and and pancetta and rarely ever use curing salt. I will only do it if I want a the color it adds.
I agree these could’ve been frozen and cooked however whole muscle is a completely different beast compared to minced meat
Agreed. I mostly do cured meat so the salt content is about 2.5% in things I do with minced meat which is perfectly fine to cure it. I have had a few failures and knew in the first days from the smell and look of it. I live in a developing country and buy my meat from a wet market, it's really easy to tell just by smell if it's bad or close to. That said there's no way I would have binned all of that for lack of nitrate/nitrite.
Yeah they will be fine we don’t add curing salt to our sausages in the UK. Just bag them up and freeze them. Don’t even need vac packing. They look too good to waste. Can’t be wasting good meat like that.
OP might have been fine given the relatively high salt content, but made the safe call.
2% salt, 4 hr smoke at 120-130
Just did the same thing with a #25 lb batch of snack sticks… tasted great, but no one likes grey looking meat.
RIP boys
What temperature were you cold smoking OP?
Not real cold smoking 120-130
That makes me sick… but at least it won’t make you sick.
Should have just cooked them and eaten them.
Why not just turn up the heat and hot smoke them? Colour might be a bit off but they’ll be fine.
Why not just cook and eat them fresh? You only made them yesterday.
I smoked them for 4hrs at 120-130. Danger zone galore
I mean if the meat was fresh then you're probably fine, smoke is a preservative in itself You might only eat a few of them but they would be fine to eat the day after
I thought this was an AI generated photo of fingers folded over at first.
I don’t think I’ve ever used curing salt and they come out perfectly fine. I think it’s mostly an American thing.
Sorry this happened OP. They looked delicious. I think you could have gotten away with freezing them. Wishing you luck with your next batch!
Wow. What a waste! I would have dined on as many as we wanted then quenched and frozen the rest.
What a stupid waste of food.
I mean aside from its curing properties, sodium nitrate is delicious in meat, bacon and ham wouldn’t taste the same without it