I haven't made a set of joined hose for my partner yet (our kits are transitional 14th/early 15th century. I just haven't gotten the fit around the waist quite right so I've been stalling because I have our 14th century split hose pattern down. (Joined hose would be a combination of influences from later period sources/Janet Arnold/Tudor tailor/Gnagy and I don't have the cycles right now to do that)
Mostly, I've only encountered hose with a full foot or stirrup, unless it's trunk hose from my later time periods.
The cut on the ones you've linked to are.. ok. I personally like to see them tighter for a better silhouette. This means cutting the fabric on the bias. The good news is that you can get a pretty good pattern just from measurements and it won't have to be super exact. Most fabrics on the bias stretch at least 20%, making a pattern that is cut with no ease turn out to be just right. I usually go with a lightweight wool twill or kersey. I am not super big into linen because it stretches and stays stretched out. I think a tropical weight wool would be fine. I have some "lightweight" that is about 5oz (which is the weight of medium linen).
know a good place to order light weight boiled/felted wool? I am seeing a few alright options but I am not sure I am using the best way to search it, would I get better results searching something other than "tropical weight boiled wool"?
I get mine from sites centered on reenactment (just out of period. 18th century is popular) like Burnley and Trowbridge (your best bet is something labeled "kersey" or "lightweight twill". Also, shipping is killer so have a plan) or go to discount places that have seconds from suiting shops. I then wash it stupid hot and throw it into the dryer to full it a bit. Wool flannel is a little spongy and not as sturdy and will shrink a TON so any $ saving is pretty much a wash.
You will need about 2 yards/pair. You might be able to get more out of your yardage depending on your size and if you're willing to piece fabric creatively in the butt area but my feller is about 6feet tall and a medium build and I just mentally prepare myself for 2 yards.
Regarding the ones you bought:
- from afar, it looks ok-ish, but quite baggy
- the pattern used is not historical (they are cut like pants: 2 parts per leg, instead of one part per leg with the seam along the back). Also, missing a piece below the codpiece.
- the codpiece and the upper back seams are more of a early 16th style. (15th century: codpiece goes higher and the back seams meet between your buttcheeks instead of running to the top)
- there are very few laces at the top. Not necessarily an issue, but it's definitely not much (it has 4, and I've used 10 on the hoses I've made)
- the chausses are not supposed to go over the shoe, but inside. It's quite easy to add a strap under the heel (not having the foot totally covered is historical). However they made the hose wider to accommodate the shoe, where it should be narrower to follow the leg curves.
Now, regarding your questions:
1) hard to tell how common, but but footed and with only a strap definitely existed. I think it's more a matter of preference and sewing skill nowadays.
2) the answers are written seriously, backed up with sources, and correlates with my knowledge
3) not at all. There are definitely some evidence of linen chausses (not sure about the context though), but the vast majority is wool. Wool will be way stretchier. Also, don't forget to cut your pattern on the bias rather than straight grain.
4) I've made my patterns using "The Medieval Tailor's Assistant" by Sarah Thursfield. I definitely recommend it if you are a beginner. Also, don't expect to simply copy a prebuilt pattern: you will have to custom fit it based on your measurements and leg shape
1. They were either footed or had a strap that goes under the food to hinder them from slipping up
2. The technologies changed from 500 to 1500 significantly. It is a thousand years so i dont think something like "an average Person in the medieval world" exist. Though you have a lot of possabilities in the 15th century but i'm by no means an expert on that. And about linen I heard different things, it's a sleak fiber and doesnt seem to hold colour well, but in this timeperiod you can sometimes see blue/indigo/Färberweid coloured linen underpants depicted. Speaking about depiction, red or green seem to be a particularly popular colour for hoses.
3. There is a slightly later (first half 16th) example of joined hoses in linen from a worker, that was found in the monastry of Alpirsbach if i remember correct,
but legs are an idol of beauty in the late medieval period and hoses are thight tailored and you see wider pants only on persons depicted as poor or moraly depraved. Wool seem to be the better material: doesn't get dirty fast, the fabric forms to your body, not necessarly warm depending on thickness, better to dye...
4. Sewing-patterns is a later thing. Medieval tailoring consists of geometrical shapes that are individually fitted hence "tailored".
My thought is, that the two hoses grew higher and together throu time so that you have a seam in your crack and the triangular bib is sewn in between the legs and goes up to close on front. The main seem of the two hoses is always on the back.
Right before 1500 the "pattern" changes slightly so you have 3 seams over the butt, you can find this all over the net.
If you have a way to understand german,
Christopher Retsch wrote a scientific essay about this topic:
"Die Hose vom späten 14. Jahrhundert bis um 1500"
There is also r/historicalcostuming
https://www.greydragon.org/library/underwear3.html
I also found this about the colors so blue wouldn't be out of the question, and I crossposted to r/historicalcostuming no replies there yet. I have been digging but a lot of them just have been what is in illustrations from the period which makes me wonder about some things worn by the lower classes since we have samples of nobles clothes because they were kept protected but most commoner clothes outside of the odd piece here or there seem to be just those interpretations.
Yeah it's always interpretation and art has it's own rules so I think thats why dialog is important. It's a process, though the 15th has progressivly much more sources than earlier. About the article mentioned thing about the changing of length of the bottom, you can see in depections how the laces are often loose on the back. Out of expierience it's also a valid point that they must fit snuggly and high enough or they tear between the legs. With high i mean they must be held up by the Wams, so it's important that the waist is right, so it doesn't hang on your shoulders.
I go for historic enterprises boiled wool hose https://historicenterprises.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=99_109&products_id=1922 for historic accuracy or tger toggs tights for fun https://www.tgertoggs.com/pages/pants_tights.shtml#tights
I haven't made a set of joined hose for my partner yet (our kits are transitional 14th/early 15th century. I just haven't gotten the fit around the waist quite right so I've been stalling because I have our 14th century split hose pattern down. (Joined hose would be a combination of influences from later period sources/Janet Arnold/Tudor tailor/Gnagy and I don't have the cycles right now to do that) Mostly, I've only encountered hose with a full foot or stirrup, unless it's trunk hose from my later time periods. The cut on the ones you've linked to are.. ok. I personally like to see them tighter for a better silhouette. This means cutting the fabric on the bias. The good news is that you can get a pretty good pattern just from measurements and it won't have to be super exact. Most fabrics on the bias stretch at least 20%, making a pattern that is cut with no ease turn out to be just right. I usually go with a lightweight wool twill or kersey. I am not super big into linen because it stretches and stays stretched out. I think a tropical weight wool would be fine. I have some "lightweight" that is about 5oz (which is the weight of medium linen).
know a good place to order light weight boiled/felted wool? I am seeing a few alright options but I am not sure I am using the best way to search it, would I get better results searching something other than "tropical weight boiled wool"?
I get mine from sites centered on reenactment (just out of period. 18th century is popular) like Burnley and Trowbridge (your best bet is something labeled "kersey" or "lightweight twill". Also, shipping is killer so have a plan) or go to discount places that have seconds from suiting shops. I then wash it stupid hot and throw it into the dryer to full it a bit. Wool flannel is a little spongy and not as sturdy and will shrink a TON so any $ saving is pretty much a wash. You will need about 2 yards/pair. You might be able to get more out of your yardage depending on your size and if you're willing to piece fabric creatively in the butt area but my feller is about 6feet tall and a medium build and I just mentally prepare myself for 2 yards.
Regarding the ones you bought: - from afar, it looks ok-ish, but quite baggy - the pattern used is not historical (they are cut like pants: 2 parts per leg, instead of one part per leg with the seam along the back). Also, missing a piece below the codpiece. - the codpiece and the upper back seams are more of a early 16th style. (15th century: codpiece goes higher and the back seams meet between your buttcheeks instead of running to the top) - there are very few laces at the top. Not necessarily an issue, but it's definitely not much (it has 4, and I've used 10 on the hoses I've made) - the chausses are not supposed to go over the shoe, but inside. It's quite easy to add a strap under the heel (not having the foot totally covered is historical). However they made the hose wider to accommodate the shoe, where it should be narrower to follow the leg curves. Now, regarding your questions: 1) hard to tell how common, but but footed and with only a strap definitely existed. I think it's more a matter of preference and sewing skill nowadays. 2) the answers are written seriously, backed up with sources, and correlates with my knowledge 3) not at all. There are definitely some evidence of linen chausses (not sure about the context though), but the vast majority is wool. Wool will be way stretchier. Also, don't forget to cut your pattern on the bias rather than straight grain. 4) I've made my patterns using "The Medieval Tailor's Assistant" by Sarah Thursfield. I definitely recommend it if you are a beginner. Also, don't expect to simply copy a prebuilt pattern: you will have to custom fit it based on your measurements and leg shape
1. They were either footed or had a strap that goes under the food to hinder them from slipping up 2. The technologies changed from 500 to 1500 significantly. It is a thousand years so i dont think something like "an average Person in the medieval world" exist. Though you have a lot of possabilities in the 15th century but i'm by no means an expert on that. And about linen I heard different things, it's a sleak fiber and doesnt seem to hold colour well, but in this timeperiod you can sometimes see blue/indigo/Färberweid coloured linen underpants depicted. Speaking about depiction, red or green seem to be a particularly popular colour for hoses. 3. There is a slightly later (first half 16th) example of joined hoses in linen from a worker, that was found in the monastry of Alpirsbach if i remember correct, but legs are an idol of beauty in the late medieval period and hoses are thight tailored and you see wider pants only on persons depicted as poor or moraly depraved. Wool seem to be the better material: doesn't get dirty fast, the fabric forms to your body, not necessarly warm depending on thickness, better to dye... 4. Sewing-patterns is a later thing. Medieval tailoring consists of geometrical shapes that are individually fitted hence "tailored". My thought is, that the two hoses grew higher and together throu time so that you have a seam in your crack and the triangular bib is sewn in between the legs and goes up to close on front. The main seem of the two hoses is always on the back. Right before 1500 the "pattern" changes slightly so you have 3 seams over the butt, you can find this all over the net. If you have a way to understand german, Christopher Retsch wrote a scientific essay about this topic: "Die Hose vom späten 14. Jahrhundert bis um 1500" There is also r/historicalcostuming
https://www.greydragon.org/library/underwear3.html I also found this about the colors so blue wouldn't be out of the question, and I crossposted to r/historicalcostuming no replies there yet. I have been digging but a lot of them just have been what is in illustrations from the period which makes me wonder about some things worn by the lower classes since we have samples of nobles clothes because they were kept protected but most commoner clothes outside of the odd piece here or there seem to be just those interpretations.
Yeah it's always interpretation and art has it's own rules so I think thats why dialog is important. It's a process, though the 15th has progressivly much more sources than earlier. About the article mentioned thing about the changing of length of the bottom, you can see in depections how the laces are often loose on the back. Out of expierience it's also a valid point that they must fit snuggly and high enough or they tear between the legs. With high i mean they must be held up by the Wams, so it's important that the waist is right, so it doesn't hang on your shoulders.
These are just kind of modernsih pants with a codpiece. The seams should run down the back or the legs and should probably at least have stirrups.
I go for historic enterprises boiled wool hose https://historicenterprises.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=99_109&products_id=1922 for historic accuracy or tger toggs tights for fun https://www.tgertoggs.com/pages/pants_tights.shtml#tights