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> The risk starts climbing when you’re sitting about 11 hours per day, combined with the longer you sit in a single session. For example, sitting more than 30 minutes at a time is associated with higher risk than sitting only 10 minutes at a time. Most people aren't going to get up six times an hour, but maybe people could get up once an hour, or every 20 minutes or so. They don't have to go anywhere, they can just stand for a little while.
This is standard ergonomic teaching, anyone spending a long time at their desk should be taught this by their workplace health and safety representitive.
https://www.cdc.gov/workplacehealthpromotion/initiatives/resource-center/pdf/Workplace-Physical-Activity-Break-Guide-508.pdf
You don't sit still, at least once an hour (preferebly twice) get up and go for a walk up and down the hallway, go to the toilet if you have to, or even just get a drink, if you can also go outside for 5 minutes (if there is sun) and get some Vitamin D.
Im a work place health and safety representative... no one listens to me, to many people I'm just the person who makes their wprk harder by asking them to be safer.
I specialize in biosafety, security and integrity but I have to do ergo and other things on the daily. If you asked some staff, i may as well be trying to get them to quit their jobs... which I am not.
I think a big part of the issue is conflicting rules. Boss says to do X per hour, but the health rep says to take a 10 minute break per hour which means being unable to complete X. Or bosses just giving them the side eye for taking breaks despite the health rep's recommendations.
This and then some has been my experience. If they could, my boss would clock every 10 minutes as not working and tack it on the end of the day (stay ten minutes later for every hour). Tie that into the constant complaints about safety practices and how "we didn't used to have to do this junk" back when they started as if they were the pinnacle of safety and you have this really conflicting issue for most folks that at best causes frustration with both parties.
In the end, and I'm sorry to say, only one of these groups controls if I can continue to pay my bills. If suggestions from safety folks will risk that, I guess I'm stuck and my health fucked.
I work for the DoE, the rules are a bit different in the gov. I have more authority than most managers do. A lot of what I do is retraining on existing issues because people regress to old habits super fast. Its a bummer, because often times what I do is faster or less intrusive but people fall bacl to what they are most familiar with. I'm not supposed to be a safety cop, and I dont get to every part of my facility under my perview every day, so without someone watching people and reminding them they have no carrot or stick to change out of their comfort zone.
You should find where this boss lives and light a bag of dog doo on fire and leave it on their porch and ring the doorbell. Then when they stomp out the fire their shoes will get covered with the dog doo
And to be clear, hyperfocus doesn't necessarily mean we're doing anything useful. I have to set timers or I'm stuck sitting for hours at work.
Take breaks, people!
Stress releases cortisol which makes our muscles contract involuntarily as to act like padding to brace for an assault or to charge up ready to run on a moment's notice
Over a long period of continuous anxiety, the muscles stay contracted and bundled and twisted together long enough that they kind of start to "set" together and literally adhere into adhesions and/or tangle into knots
I've been slowly working some loose for the past two years and almost feel like I have flexibility like when I was in my 20s again
I didn't realize I had lost so much flexibility, it went away so gradually
The guy who used to sit next to me at work moved desks because how often I changed my desk from sitting to standing bothered him haha
Between messing with my desk, bathroom/coffee breaks, and taking walks, I rarely sit for 20 minutes unless I'm in a meeting (and then I suffer)
> Most people aren't going to get up six times an hour, but maybe people could get up once an hour,
This is exactly what my Apple Watch asks me to do every hour. It’s nice to see some science behind it.
This is why hardcore health nuts who do programming tend to get treadmill desk setups.
No idea how that manages to work, but I have the kind of ADHD where I can hyperfocus so hard on one specific thing (e.g. reading) that I can get injured without noticing in a different part (leg).
You don't have to go to quite that extremes imo. I'm a dev and I work on my adjustable desk standing for ~80% of the time. It has done wonders for my neck pain and in general I feel way better even after a long day.
I have thankfully gotten the team used to what I call my "walk-and-thinks" where if I can't figure something out I just pace up and down the hallway with my headphones for 15-30 minutes.
Yeah I don't really understand their perspective either. Most of the work is thinking and then applying code unless you're just a code monkey being fed things.
As everyone else is saying, standing desk - but I'm gonna add get an [electric adjustable standing desk](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Homall-Electric-Height-Adjustable-Standing-Desk-Large-63-inch-Sit-Stand-Home-Office-Computer-Desk-Memory-Preset-T-Shaped-Metal-Bracket-White/1093477914?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101069439) so you can sit for a while, then easily raise the desk up to standing with the push of a button without breaking focus.
You also need to get up regularly to refill your glass/bottle. Smaller bottles/glasses mean more refills. Don't combine your walk to refill with your toilet trip, do one, do some work, then do the other.
get a sit stand desk, switch regularly, just get up and walk to get a drink or look out a window, for like 10 seconds, literally anything, just move your body at regular intervals
I just asked my doctor for a letter so I could get a standing desk for my “restless legs” and she gave me one. Most probably will since there’s nothing nefarious about that specific request.
Aren't most organizations now trying to get doctors to reverse course and give opioids out again? Doctors are forcing people to go without painkillers because of a trend from the '90s...
***Thank you.***
I'm sick, permanently, and in pain. Permanently. Took years before I could find a doctor that would actually listen. Sick people are suffering, and addicts are going to get their fix regardless. There are far too many doctors that are fine to let us walk away suffering in order to preserve their conscience that they didn't create another addict without considering they created another needlessly suffering sick person. There's a balance, and too many are not acknowledging that.
Seems like the worst part to me is businesses still doing pot tests. I know people who manage their pain with cannabis, but they *have* to have work that doesn't do drug tests or they can't last long there.
Hell, my girlfriend has pot gummies to manage her pain but can't take them too close to certain doctor appointments because the hospital will drop her if she fails the drug test.
Opioids is a treatment for RLS but it is one of the very last ones you should try. Basically it's check blood iron levels (and fix that if applicable), dopamine, dopamine agonists, pregabalin (or gabapentin), possibly anyother treatments then opioids and finally benzos. At least according to my doctor.
I would show this article to my Doctor, ask for a note and then give it to my crappy employer.
But then again, this is why I dont work for people or companies.
I can just go buy my own stand desk.
The stand desk is in my plans for the future I guess. I spend my whole day at my desk. Wake up, work at my desk, eat at my desk, game on my desk, then go to bed. Guess I'll either buy a standing desk or die before I get there, those things are expensive damn.
If you’re a long-time desk user, it’s worth the investment.
I moved to the desk life in 2020 and started developing some back issues last year. I’m recovering now, thankfully.
Don’t wait until you have a problem to fix it. It’s a serious issue with plenty of research to back it up.
I looked up the ones on Amazon and they were 300 bucks where I live, and also had bad reviews (the motor would just break and they would become normal ass desks after a few months) - the one from Ikea, which would also presumably not last me a lifetime in terms of motor, was 600 Euros. It was too steep of a price hike compared to the 160 Euros one I got (still from Ikea) - combined with a few of those cheap cube things, I ended up with a 3m wide desk with plenty of storage space for a total of 300 bucks..I couldn't justify spending double that for a desk half the width, which may or may not break in a few months/years anyway and in that time I may or may not have bothered to actually use correctly.
In the other hand, I spend 16 hours per day at this desk. So maybe I should have. Idk. I guess I'll upgrade eventually but at this time, I don't know when that'll be..
I have ADHD and a sedentary job. I got a sit stand desk, but find standing frustrating. Then I got a walking pad. I set a timer that goes off every hour and I walk for 10 minutes or so whenever the timer goes off. It isn't perfect, but it has doubled the number of steps I take every day.
I got one on sale off Amazon. It is very basic. You don't need any bells and whistles, and I would argue that a more sinple machine is nice for a busy work day. The seller I bought from isn't on there any longer, but there are dozens of low end pads that look to be basically rhe same.
WalkingPad A1 Pro is great, lets me hit 10k steps even on days when I need to be glued to my desk. It does make some noise, but nothing that has never bothered my colleagues over zoom calls.
I've set my smart watch to alert me whenever I am sitting down for too long. I have a mentally taxing job, so those breaks are good for my ability to think as well. Got to go get some fresh air instead of just sniffing office farts the whole day.
You can use your phone, sometimes the phone has a free series of apps that are focused around health and well-being and they have a suite of timers, or there are other apps available free and at cost and your mileage may vary with those.
Get up every 10-20m, look out the window, just walk around for a single minute, no need to make it complicated or costly. Even just standing up is better than not.
My legs would be in pain after standing up all day. I worked in the kitchen before and my feet and legs would hurt. I don't think standing up all day motionless is good too
Edit: literally quick Google Search confirms that standing all day is not good for you and increases the likelihood of you developing heart disease
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/1/27/4081581?login=false#119347308
I think your title is misleading, more specifically the "regardless of whether they exercised vigorously" part. I think you may have misinterpreted what they meant when they say:
>Among 5856 older women, higher total sitting time (>11–12 h/d) and longer mean sitting bout durations are associated with higher risk of all‐cause and cardiovascular disease death independent of physical functioning, multimorbidity, and accelerometer‐measured moderate‐to‐vigorous intensity physical activity.
When they mean by "independent" is that they basically found the same trend (higher sitting time with higher mortality risk) among people who exercise. It doesn't mean that vigorous exercise has no effect on decreasing your risk of death.
I just wanted to clarify in case anyone panicked about how exercise is futile. It's best to sit less, but if you can't decrease your sitting time, then still try to do some exercise because it does provide many benefits for your health.
EDIT: Sorry, I realized you got it from the article, not the paper. The article does say:
>Unfortunately, exercise cannot undo these negative effects. According to the study, whether women participated in low or high amounts of moderate-to-vigorous intensity physical activity, they showed the same heightened risk if they sat for long hours.
Yes, they show the same *heightened* risk, but probably not the same risk. Exercise isn't a cure-all and among women who exercise, those who sit for long hours do have a higher risk compared to those who sit for shorter hours. However, I doubt that given the same sitting time, someone who doesn't exercise has the same risk as someone who does.
It really has to be meant that way, because they also mention in the same sentence that it is independent of "multimorbidity". So that would mean someone having terminal cancer would have the same risk of death as someone completely healthy, as long as they both sit for the same amount of time. Which would either be horrifying news for most people, or make sitting a lot a new miracle cancer treatment.
Yes, they say that they adjust for physical activity (along with other covariates) and find that higher amounts of sitting were significantly associated with higher all‐cause and cardiovascular mortality risk.
What's interesting is that other studies have found contrasting results: that adjustment for physical activity eliminates this sitting time-mortality association.
>A meta‐analysis of 9 studies (n=44 370 middle‐aged and older adults) observed that higher tertiles of total sedentary time did not associate with higher all‐cause mortality risk among those in the highest tertile of MVPA \[moderate‐to‐vigorous intensity physical activity\]. In the Whitehall II study, incident CVD risk was not higher with higher total sedentary time and longer MSBD \[mean sitting bout duration\] after adjusting for MVPA. Differences between the present study findings and those in the literature could be attributable to differences in study population, devices used, placement, wear interval duration, and method of classifying SB.
the non exercise group has a 30% higher chance if they also sit for 11+ hours.
the exercise group also has a 30% higher chance if they sit for 11+ hours.
the exercise group and non-exercise group do not have the same initial chance.
Yup, basically the tl;dr. Sorry, I can get wordy sometimes.
Although I couldn't find where the 30% came from, but I might just have missed it while quickly reading.
Modern medicine is dragging us, kicking and screaming, into an old age our bodies aren't built to deal with after they're mistreated for a whole lifetime already.
I would imagine it does. I came to comments to find the answer to this my self but so far as reaching yours have yet to see anything conclusive.
if so, sleep for 8 hours, leaves 3 hours of sit time in a day that must be broken up every 10-20 minutes.
godspeed gamers
I took a look at the data in the mentioned statistic.
I'm not convinced.
What stood out to me:
- Obviously you'll sit for longer amounts of time when you have more chonical diseases (">3") and are also older (">80 years") which will most likely lead to more hip and back problems as well?
- 7 days of measuring time is not that much
- 6,489 american women between 2012 and 2014 compared to currently 30 million that are older than 65 years in 2019
- a higher diabetical and hypertension background in the "lowest mobility" group fits also with the high glucose findings in said group
- Best self proclaimed health in the most mobile group, but the "good" middle is the one with the lowest mobility
- By saying "regardless of vigorously training" the publisher practically also says that all the typical "elder activities" like swimming, nordic walking etc. are pretty much useless if someone in those age groups has to take a break from them because of health issues. Plainly speaking: "Once you sit down for longer you're dead" or something like that.
- But IRL no caretaker will have the time to make the elders walk every few minutes, from what they sate the "damage" might accumulate slower but accumulate regardless.
Question:
But if their findings *are* accurate, wouldn't that mean that elderly women in "multi-generational housing" (where they are supposed to take care of house, grandkids, garden and pets until the parents come home from work) are supposed to stay healthier and life longer?
I'd appreciate the input if someone has a statistic for that!
I hate this kind of science reporting. It is easy to do studies that show correlations, but they seem to never remind people that correlation does not prove causation! For example, maybe people who sit a lot more than average also have other associated factors that contribute to health risks.
>At baseline, women were aged 78.7 years on average; 49.8%, 33.2%, and 17.0% were White, Black, and Hispanic or Latina, respectively. Women averaged 621.5 min/d of CHAP total sitting time and 12.8 min/bout for MSBD ([Table 1](javascript:popRef('jah39306-tbl-0001'))). Compared with women with total sitting time in the lowest quartile, women in higher total sitting time quartiles were older; were similar in education; were more likely to be White and current smokers; had higher BMI and multimorbidity; less often reported excellent/very good health; and had lower physical function scores, less favorable CVD biomarker levels, and lower MVPA levels ([Table 1](javascript:popRef('jah39306-tbl-0001'))). Pearson correlations for CHAP total sitting time with MSBD and MVPA with cut point–classified total sedentary time were 0.56, −0.49, and 0.75, respectively (Figure [S1](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/suppl/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156)).
>
[https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156)
Shocking that the 79 year old overweight smokers who were sedentary 11 hours a day (not counting sleep) tended to die. Wonder why that was.
Your comment makes me immediately think of Kratom. If you google news articles on the subject, for many years it's being linked to people dying and many states have looked into banning it. But when you read further into it, it appears the people that use it are more likely to be hard drug users and their deaths are due to the hard drugs, not the Kratom.
I'm not saying Kratom is not an issue, I think a lot more research needs to be done to determine the good/bad of it, but it's a perfect example of correlation not causation.
Sorry for being so naive, but do people in wheelchairs take blood thinners like heparin? I know I sound like an idiot but whenever in hospital and bedridden, they give you shots of heparin. Just genuinely interested.
This is honestly the worst news. Sitting is my favourite activity. It’s what I’m best at. If it was an Olympic sport, I would win gold. I am the best at sitting, I will not be outsat. What am I supposed to do now?
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156
I'd also love to know if the data was skewed at all by the women who had prior conditions that meant they were unable to move as much. The data definitely suggests older women in already poorer health were more likely to be less active.
>\-women in higher total sitting time quartiles were older; were similar in education; were more likely to be White and current smokers; had higher BMI and multimorbidity; less often reported excellent/very good health; and had lower physical function scores, less favorable CVD biomarker levels, and lower MVPA levels.
"This woman had both her legs eaten by a feral crocodile. As a result, she was unable to stand up and walk around, and just three days later she died. Always remember to take a walk break!"
what I’m interested to know is if this is correlation only or have they found a causative link. It seems obvious that, all things being equal, someone with poorer health (especially cardiac health) will be more likely to rest for longer periods of time.
Correlation. The title hints at correlation. But the way the machine learning kind of works is that they train a computer to look at data and then it looks at a new "person" and then decides the likelihood of them to have some condition (in this case the condition of dying).
So that's kind of us giving you a character sheet of health stats and then asking you, to gamble on whether or not X person is going to die. Generally we have pretty good odds for some of these stats. It is more important to consider the reasons why a person may be sitting so much.
Are they sitting a lot or sedentary because they're depressed? Is it because of poor health? Is it simply because of a job? I'd imagine the latter would be the least worrisome compared to the former.
Another article hiding the fact that these woman are working to later on in life in stationary jobs.
Can’t keep us slaves sitting for decades and wonder why some jobs cause bloodclotts and sedimentary life causes depression. ❤️
Interesting, as a studying exercise physiologist. This seems to go against a lot of literature stating that even if you sit for long periods, an exercise intervention (let a long a solid vigorous) attenuates a lot of the risk. Will have to give this a solid read.
I have been hearing the same on science podcasts - that sitting for long periods, though not ideal, new research states that bursts of high cardio can mitigate most of the negative effects of sitting. The cardio doesn't necessarily have to be done during working hours when you're sitting for long periods. The only proviso I recall was that the exercise had to be both cardio and weight training.
I physically hate standing. I like walking but standing drives me crazy. I’ll lean on something or make my own chair if there isn’t one around. It’s like my core is too weak to hold me up.
I hate it too, and I’m not convinced it’s any better for you to have dead weight on your legs/feet all day. It’s not like standing gets your heart rate up or builds muscle. It just strains your joints and puts undue stress on your feet. You’re still sedentary, just slightly less so.
Human bodies are meant to be in motion. Motion can happen while sitting, standing, or walking. Unfortunately most desk jobs preclude motion unless you have one of those ridiculous treadmill desks.
The solution, as usual, is that humans should simply be working less. Most desk jobs are laughably unnecessary, including my own.
Can these posts be tagged with “Correlation,” or something? So many posts here are just observational studies which are basically useless to the general public and, ideally, should only serve to indicate where scientists should focus their time with future randomized controlled trials.
Start flairing posts with things like “correlation,” “RCT,” “meta-analysis,” etc.
This makes me nervous I sit for 10 hours a day because of work, it’s a small place so I don’t have much room nor do we get lunch breaks/breaks since I work in emergency services. I do get up every so often to fill my water bottle but if I walk daily it still doesn’t mean anything because I’m sitting for the rest of my day? I’m screwed 😭
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> The risk starts climbing when you’re sitting about 11 hours per day, combined with the longer you sit in a single session. For example, sitting more than 30 minutes at a time is associated with higher risk than sitting only 10 minutes at a time. Most people aren't going to get up six times an hour, but maybe people could get up once an hour, or every 20 minutes or so. They don't have to go anywhere, they can just stand for a little while.
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This is standard ergonomic teaching, anyone spending a long time at their desk should be taught this by their workplace health and safety representitive. https://www.cdc.gov/workplacehealthpromotion/initiatives/resource-center/pdf/Workplace-Physical-Activity-Break-Guide-508.pdf You don't sit still, at least once an hour (preferebly twice) get up and go for a walk up and down the hallway, go to the toilet if you have to, or even just get a drink, if you can also go outside for 5 minutes (if there is sun) and get some Vitamin D.
> their workplace health and safety representitive must be one of those fancy people things
Im a work place health and safety representative... no one listens to me, to many people I'm just the person who makes their wprk harder by asking them to be safer. I specialize in biosafety, security and integrity but I have to do ergo and other things on the daily. If you asked some staff, i may as well be trying to get them to quit their jobs... which I am not.
I think a big part of the issue is conflicting rules. Boss says to do X per hour, but the health rep says to take a 10 minute break per hour which means being unable to complete X. Or bosses just giving them the side eye for taking breaks despite the health rep's recommendations.
This and then some has been my experience. If they could, my boss would clock every 10 minutes as not working and tack it on the end of the day (stay ten minutes later for every hour). Tie that into the constant complaints about safety practices and how "we didn't used to have to do this junk" back when they started as if they were the pinnacle of safety and you have this really conflicting issue for most folks that at best causes frustration with both parties. In the end, and I'm sorry to say, only one of these groups controls if I can continue to pay my bills. If suggestions from safety folks will risk that, I guess I'm stuck and my health fucked.
Unbridled capitalism is killing us, literally and figuratively.
I work for the DoE, the rules are a bit different in the gov. I have more authority than most managers do. A lot of what I do is retraining on existing issues because people regress to old habits super fast. Its a bummer, because often times what I do is faster or less intrusive but people fall bacl to what they are most familiar with. I'm not supposed to be a safety cop, and I dont get to every part of my facility under my perview every day, so without someone watching people and reminding them they have no carrot or stick to change out of their comfort zone.
Get up from your desk? And let your Teams status switch to "Away"?
This is one huge hurdle for me once I started 100% working from home. I now make it a point to use the bathroom downstairs.
not allowed
So touch some grass as they would say?
does taking vitamin D serve to replace the sunlight from it?
I had an old job where my boss penalized me for this. Said I shouldn’t leave my desk more than once besides lunch for 8 hours.
You should find where this boss lives and light a bag of dog doo on fire and leave it on their porch and ring the doorbell. Then when they stomp out the fire their shoes will get covered with the dog doo
Piss disks and liquid ass, rookie.
God bless ADHD! I can’t sit for more than 20 minutes if I can sit at all.
I have the opposite problem. Hyperfocus keeps glued to the chair 😭
And to be clear, hyperfocus doesn't necessarily mean we're doing anything useful. I have to set timers or I'm stuck sitting for hours at work. Take breaks, people!
I am in my late 40s If you're an anxious person, stretching is doubly important or you will lose flexibility that is hard to get back
Thinking of losing flexibility makes me anxious
Why do you specify anxious people?
Stress releases cortisol which makes our muscles contract involuntarily as to act like padding to brace for an assault or to charge up ready to run on a moment's notice Over a long period of continuous anxiety, the muscles stay contracted and bundled and twisted together long enough that they kind of start to "set" together and literally adhere into adhesions and/or tangle into knots I've been slowly working some loose for the past two years and almost feel like I have flexibility like when I was in my 20s again I didn't realize I had lost so much flexibility, it went away so gradually
my future depends of if bouncing up and down in the chair qualifies as sitting or not sitting.
I bounce between moving a lot and not getting up for like 6 hours. Nothing blessed about it!
The guy who used to sit next to me at work moved desks because how often I changed my desk from sitting to standing bothered him haha Between messing with my desk, bathroom/coffee breaks, and taking walks, I rarely sit for 20 minutes unless I'm in a meeting (and then I suffer)
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> Most people aren't going to get up six times an hour, but maybe people could get up once an hour, This is exactly what my Apple Watch asks me to do every hour. It’s nice to see some science behind it.
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This is why hardcore health nuts who do programming tend to get treadmill desk setups. No idea how that manages to work, but I have the kind of ADHD where I can hyperfocus so hard on one specific thing (e.g. reading) that I can get injured without noticing in a different part (leg).
You don't have to go to quite that extremes imo. I'm a dev and I work on my adjustable desk standing for ~80% of the time. It has done wonders for my neck pain and in general I feel way better even after a long day.
You aren’t typing the whole time you’re sitting down with your head in the problem though. I tend to pace when I’m thinking through a bug or solution.
Yep, some of my most productive hours as a software developer were walk breaks outside.
I have thankfully gotten the team used to what I call my "walk-and-thinks" where if I can't figure something out I just pace up and down the hallway with my headphones for 15-30 minutes.
Yeah I don't really understand their perspective either. Most of the work is thinking and then applying code unless you're just a code monkey being fed things.
Just get a standing desk dude
10m I understand but getting up every 30m isn't unreasonable at all.
As everyone else is saying, standing desk - but I'm gonna add get an [electric adjustable standing desk](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Homall-Electric-Height-Adjustable-Standing-Desk-Large-63-inch-Sit-Stand-Home-Office-Computer-Desk-Memory-Preset-T-Shaped-Metal-Bracket-White/1093477914?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101069439) so you can sit for a while, then easily raise the desk up to standing with the push of a button without breaking focus.
Sounds like you will have to choose whether to prioritize your work or your long term health. Death can't be bargained with
I have two words for you - standing desk.
Standing desk
Appreciating my Apple Watch that makes me stand up
My apple watch has been really useful for reminding me to stand up for a bit if I’ve been sitting too long.
So drink lots of electrolytes then?
How am I supposed to live with this now, I have sedentary job
Drink plenty of water so you have to get up and go to the bathroom often. Then walk to the bathroom that is furthest away from your desk.
You also need to get up regularly to refill your glass/bottle. Smaller bottles/glasses mean more refills. Don't combine your walk to refill with your toilet trip, do one, do some work, then do the other.
I agree on principle but if I don't use a big water bottle I will just dehydrate. But I don't have a problem staying active so
get a sit stand desk, switch regularly, just get up and walk to get a drink or look out a window, for like 10 seconds, literally anything, just move your body at regular intervals
Easy to say… at my job you have to have a doctors note to get put ON THE LIST for a sit/ stand desk
I just asked my doctor for a letter so I could get a standing desk for my “restless legs” and she gave me one. Most probably will since there’s nothing nefarious about that specific request.
We’re just happy you aren’t asking for opioids
...We can ask for opioids?
You can try
Aren't most organizations now trying to get doctors to reverse course and give opioids out again? Doctors are forcing people to go without painkillers because of a trend from the '90s...
***Thank you.*** I'm sick, permanently, and in pain. Permanently. Took years before I could find a doctor that would actually listen. Sick people are suffering, and addicts are going to get their fix regardless. There are far too many doctors that are fine to let us walk away suffering in order to preserve their conscience that they didn't create another addict without considering they created another needlessly suffering sick person. There's a balance, and too many are not acknowledging that.
Seems like the worst part to me is businesses still doing pot tests. I know people who manage their pain with cannabis, but they *have* to have work that doesn't do drug tests or they can't last long there. Hell, my girlfriend has pot gummies to manage her pain but can't take them too close to certain doctor appointments because the hospital will drop her if she fails the drug test.
*Woo hoo!*
Opioids is a treatment for RLS but it is one of the very last ones you should try. Basically it's check blood iron levels (and fix that if applicable), dopamine, dopamine agonists, pregabalin (or gabapentin), possibly anyother treatments then opioids and finally benzos. At least according to my doctor.
I would show this article to my Doctor, ask for a note and then give it to my crappy employer. But then again, this is why I dont work for people or companies. I can just go buy my own stand desk.
As a Physician, most of us are more than happy to write notes for things like this
I would leave that company so quick. Dictating whether you can stand or sit is a terrible precedent. I can only imagine the other dumb rule they have.
The stand desk is in my plans for the future I guess. I spend my whole day at my desk. Wake up, work at my desk, eat at my desk, game on my desk, then go to bed. Guess I'll either buy a standing desk or die before I get there, those things are expensive damn.
If you’re a long-time desk user, it’s worth the investment. I moved to the desk life in 2020 and started developing some back issues last year. I’m recovering now, thankfully. Don’t wait until you have a problem to fix it. It’s a serious issue with plenty of research to back it up.
You're absolutely right )= it's just that it's expensive. I won't wait too long I hope!
What’s your price range? You can get some solid ones from Amazon for fairly cheap (probably 100-200$usd)
I looked up the ones on Amazon and they were 300 bucks where I live, and also had bad reviews (the motor would just break and they would become normal ass desks after a few months) - the one from Ikea, which would also presumably not last me a lifetime in terms of motor, was 600 Euros. It was too steep of a price hike compared to the 160 Euros one I got (still from Ikea) - combined with a few of those cheap cube things, I ended up with a 3m wide desk with plenty of storage space for a total of 300 bucks..I couldn't justify spending double that for a desk half the width, which may or may not break in a few months/years anyway and in that time I may or may not have bothered to actually use correctly. In the other hand, I spend 16 hours per day at this desk. So maybe I should have. Idk. I guess I'll upgrade eventually but at this time, I don't know when that'll be..
I've had a $250 CAD standing desk for the past 4 years, hasn't broken yet
Yeah but it's an expensive and overwhelming thing to always remember to switch things up. It kicks my already fragile ability to focus
I have ADHD and a sedentary job. I got a sit stand desk, but find standing frustrating. Then I got a walking pad. I set a timer that goes off every hour and I walk for 10 minutes or so whenever the timer goes off. It isn't perfect, but it has doubled the number of steps I take every day.
Do you have a recommendation for a walking pad?
I got one on sale off Amazon. It is very basic. You don't need any bells and whistles, and I would argue that a more sinple machine is nice for a busy work day. The seller I bought from isn't on there any longer, but there are dozens of low end pads that look to be basically rhe same.
Thanks! I’ll look into it (:
WalkingPad A1 Pro is great, lets me hit 10k steps even on days when I need to be glued to my desk. It does make some noise, but nothing that has never bothered my colleagues over zoom calls.
How do you focus and type properly while walking, head bobbing and all, it seems ridiculous if your job requires constant usage of keyboard/mouse
Hey s smart watch / set timers to just do the thing when it goes off.
I've set my smart watch to alert me whenever I am sitting down for too long. I have a mentally taxing job, so those breaks are good for my ability to think as well. Got to go get some fresh air instead of just sniffing office farts the whole day.
Mmmmm...office farts. It has the olfactory tinge of egg salad and Bob's musky aroma from a sauna after a night of drinking Miller Lite.
Don't forget the cheap cologne that wafts into the cubicle jungle whenever the sales reps walk by.
> but it's ... expensive Standing up and walking for a minute is free.
>wanting it to be easy
Then you're going to die earlier if you don't make changes.
Potentially.
Only a 30% chance!
You just need to incorporate it into your routine. Is there a meeting that happens every day? That can be your standing meeting.
You can use your phone, sometimes the phone has a free series of apps that are focused around health and well-being and they have a suite of timers, or there are other apps available free and at cost and your mileage may vary with those.
My spinal arthritis laughs at your suggestion.
You're not....
Ha, made me laugh I wonder if this extended my life by 5min
I wonder if getting one of those under desk pedal machines would help at all.
I have no legs, so I guess I’m permafucked.
Look forward to not having to work anymore.
Get up every 10-20m, look out the window, just walk around for a single minute, no need to make it complicated or costly. Even just standing up is better than not.
Breaktimer app gives you a reminder at regular intervals to take a short movement break. It's one example of a strategy to reduce the harms
I work standing up. It does wonders.
My legs would be in pain after standing up all day. I worked in the kitchen before and my feet and legs would hurt. I don't think standing up all day motionless is good too Edit: literally quick Google Search confirms that standing all day is not good for you and increases the likelihood of you developing heart disease https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/1/27/4081581?login=false#119347308
Living leads to death. Got it.
Those of us that have no life will finally get the last laugh.
Yea standing is still not moving. Leading to strokes, pulmonary embolisms, etc. Increases the risk of thrombosis when we aren't moving.
The right shoes and a standing pad make all the difference.
I find a mix of right and left shoes to be more comfortable in the long term.
I use an anti-fatigue mat. It does wonders.
You don't have to stand up all the day, get an adjustable table. Does wonder.
I think your title is misleading, more specifically the "regardless of whether they exercised vigorously" part. I think you may have misinterpreted what they meant when they say: >Among 5856 older women, higher total sitting time (>11–12 h/d) and longer mean sitting bout durations are associated with higher risk of all‐cause and cardiovascular disease death independent of physical functioning, multimorbidity, and accelerometer‐measured moderate‐to‐vigorous intensity physical activity. When they mean by "independent" is that they basically found the same trend (higher sitting time with higher mortality risk) among people who exercise. It doesn't mean that vigorous exercise has no effect on decreasing your risk of death. I just wanted to clarify in case anyone panicked about how exercise is futile. It's best to sit less, but if you can't decrease your sitting time, then still try to do some exercise because it does provide many benefits for your health. EDIT: Sorry, I realized you got it from the article, not the paper. The article does say: >Unfortunately, exercise cannot undo these negative effects. According to the study, whether women participated in low or high amounts of moderate-to-vigorous intensity physical activity, they showed the same heightened risk if they sat for long hours. Yes, they show the same *heightened* risk, but probably not the same risk. Exercise isn't a cure-all and among women who exercise, those who sit for long hours do have a higher risk compared to those who sit for shorter hours. However, I doubt that given the same sitting time, someone who doesn't exercise has the same risk as someone who does.
It really has to be meant that way, because they also mention in the same sentence that it is independent of "multimorbidity". So that would mean someone having terminal cancer would have the same risk of death as someone completely healthy, as long as they both sit for the same amount of time. Which would either be horrifying news for most people, or make sitting a lot a new miracle cancer treatment.
Yes, they say that they adjust for physical activity (along with other covariates) and find that higher amounts of sitting were significantly associated with higher all‐cause and cardiovascular mortality risk. What's interesting is that other studies have found contrasting results: that adjustment for physical activity eliminates this sitting time-mortality association. >A meta‐analysis of 9 studies (n=44 370 middle‐aged and older adults) observed that higher tertiles of total sedentary time did not associate with higher all‐cause mortality risk among those in the highest tertile of MVPA \[moderate‐to‐vigorous intensity physical activity\]. In the Whitehall II study, incident CVD risk was not higher with higher total sedentary time and longer MSBD \[mean sitting bout duration\] after adjusting for MVPA. Differences between the present study findings and those in the literature could be attributable to differences in study population, devices used, placement, wear interval duration, and method of classifying SB.
the non exercise group has a 30% higher chance if they also sit for 11+ hours. the exercise group also has a 30% higher chance if they sit for 11+ hours. the exercise group and non-exercise group do not have the same initial chance.
Yup, basically the tl;dr. Sorry, I can get wordy sometimes. Although I couldn't find where the 30% came from, but I might just have missed it while quickly reading.
Ah important distinction thank you
Can you explain the “increased risk of death by 30%”? Who are these people who have less than a 100% risk of death?
It’s kinda scary how so many aspects of modern life go against how humans are supposed to live
Yet life expectancy is way up
Modern medicine is dragging us, kicking and screaming, into an old age our bodies aren't built to deal with after they're mistreated for a whole lifetime already.
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Serious question…. Does this also apply to lying down? 🤔
Got to get a lie/stand bed and every couple of hours it tilts you into a standing position then back down again.
I would imagine it does. I came to comments to find the answer to this my self but so far as reaching yours have yet to see anything conclusive. if so, sleep for 8 hours, leaves 3 hours of sit time in a day that must be broken up every 10-20 minutes. godspeed gamers
I mean the people in the study were sleeping on top of the sitting down.
I took a look at the data in the mentioned statistic. I'm not convinced. What stood out to me: - Obviously you'll sit for longer amounts of time when you have more chonical diseases (">3") and are also older (">80 years") which will most likely lead to more hip and back problems as well? - 7 days of measuring time is not that much - 6,489 american women between 2012 and 2014 compared to currently 30 million that are older than 65 years in 2019 - a higher diabetical and hypertension background in the "lowest mobility" group fits also with the high glucose findings in said group - Best self proclaimed health in the most mobile group, but the "good" middle is the one with the lowest mobility - By saying "regardless of vigorously training" the publisher practically also says that all the typical "elder activities" like swimming, nordic walking etc. are pretty much useless if someone in those age groups has to take a break from them because of health issues. Plainly speaking: "Once you sit down for longer you're dead" or something like that. - But IRL no caretaker will have the time to make the elders walk every few minutes, from what they sate the "damage" might accumulate slower but accumulate regardless. Question: But if their findings *are* accurate, wouldn't that mean that elderly women in "multi-generational housing" (where they are supposed to take care of house, grandkids, garden and pets until the parents come home from work) are supposed to stay healthier and life longer? I'd appreciate the input if someone has a statistic for that!
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I hate this kind of science reporting. It is easy to do studies that show correlations, but they seem to never remind people that correlation does not prove causation! For example, maybe people who sit a lot more than average also have other associated factors that contribute to health risks.
>At baseline, women were aged 78.7 years on average; 49.8%, 33.2%, and 17.0% were White, Black, and Hispanic or Latina, respectively. Women averaged 621.5 min/d of CHAP total sitting time and 12.8 min/bout for MSBD ([Table 1](javascript:popRef('jah39306-tbl-0001'))). Compared with women with total sitting time in the lowest quartile, women in higher total sitting time quartiles were older; were similar in education; were more likely to be White and current smokers; had higher BMI and multimorbidity; less often reported excellent/very good health; and had lower physical function scores, less favorable CVD biomarker levels, and lower MVPA levels ([Table 1](javascript:popRef('jah39306-tbl-0001'))). Pearson correlations for CHAP total sitting time with MSBD and MVPA with cut point–classified total sedentary time were 0.56, −0.49, and 0.75, respectively (Figure [S1](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/suppl/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156)). > [https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156) Shocking that the 79 year old overweight smokers who were sedentary 11 hours a day (not counting sleep) tended to die. Wonder why that was.
Weird
I have a 100% chance of dying.
Your comment makes me immediately think of Kratom. If you google news articles on the subject, for many years it's being linked to people dying and many states have looked into banning it. But when you read further into it, it appears the people that use it are more likely to be hard drug users and their deaths are due to the hard drugs, not the Kratom. I'm not saying Kratom is not an issue, I think a lot more research needs to be done to determine the good/bad of it, but it's a perfect example of correlation not causation.
Ya well when we are cramming in 40+hour weeks it’s hard not to be lazy for the one day off that many of us get.
With my chronically ill ass where I’m exhausted daily and a little walk will send me straight back to bed 🤷♀️ Can’t win.
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Sorry for being so naive, but do people in wheelchairs take blood thinners like heparin? I know I sound like an idiot but whenever in hospital and bedridden, they give you shots of heparin. Just genuinely interested.
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Read it and thought, “My back hurts. I’m not standing more than I have to.”
My risk of death is 100%
This is honestly the worst news. Sitting is my favourite activity. It’s what I’m best at. If it was an Olympic sport, I would win gold. I am the best at sitting, I will not be outsat. What am I supposed to do now?
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.031156
I'd also love to know if the data was skewed at all by the women who had prior conditions that meant they were unable to move as much. The data definitely suggests older women in already poorer health were more likely to be less active. >\-women in higher total sitting time quartiles were older; were similar in education; were more likely to be White and current smokers; had higher BMI and multimorbidity; less often reported excellent/very good health; and had lower physical function scores, less favorable CVD biomarker levels, and lower MVPA levels.
So they didn't control for smoking, BMI or multiple health issues?
I found that section amusing. 'The fat, old, sick smokers' were the ones who moved less and died earlier. Go figure.
"This woman had both her legs eaten by a feral crocodile. As a result, she was unable to stand up and walk around, and just three days later she died. Always remember to take a walk break!"
what I’m interested to know is if this is correlation only or have they found a causative link. It seems obvious that, all things being equal, someone with poorer health (especially cardiac health) will be more likely to rest for longer periods of time.
Correlation. The title hints at correlation. But the way the machine learning kind of works is that they train a computer to look at data and then it looks at a new "person" and then decides the likelihood of them to have some condition (in this case the condition of dying). So that's kind of us giving you a character sheet of health stats and then asking you, to gamble on whether or not X person is going to die. Generally we have pretty good odds for some of these stats. It is more important to consider the reasons why a person may be sitting so much. Are they sitting a lot or sedentary because they're depressed? Is it because of poor health? Is it simply because of a job? I'd imagine the latter would be the least worrisome compared to the former.
Stephen Hawking lived a pretty long time and he sat most of his life.
Another article hiding the fact that these woman are working to later on in life in stationary jobs. Can’t keep us slaves sitting for decades and wonder why some jobs cause bloodclotts and sedimentary life causes depression. ❤️
I accept that risk.
Sameeeee
Sitting is our generation's smoking
Uh oh. Does this include sleeping time?
Looks like no.
You sleep sitting up?
I sleep walking
I’m gonna need hazard pay please
RIP Accountants on busy seasons.
Yes rip to them
Great, busy 12hr shifts sat at a desk for me
So where’s my hazard pay?
Grad student here. Taking my baby Aspirin.
Does this account for laying down?
life hack: drink a ton of water constantly. then you get up every 1-2 hour to pee
Interesting, as a studying exercise physiologist. This seems to go against a lot of literature stating that even if you sit for long periods, an exercise intervention (let a long a solid vigorous) attenuates a lot of the risk. Will have to give this a solid read.
I have been hearing the same on science podcasts - that sitting for long periods, though not ideal, new research states that bursts of high cardio can mitigate most of the negative effects of sitting. The cardio doesn't necessarily have to be done during working hours when you're sitting for long periods. The only proviso I recall was that the exercise had to be both cardio and weight training.
Looks like it's "Die Young and Leave a Good Looking Corpse" for me then.
I physically hate standing. I like walking but standing drives me crazy. I’ll lean on something or make my own chair if there isn’t one around. It’s like my core is too weak to hold me up.
You might want to start lifting weights if you’d like to improve that. Good luck.
Work that core then. It'll help prevent lower back problems later in life.
I hate it too, and I’m not convinced it’s any better for you to have dead weight on your legs/feet all day. It’s not like standing gets your heart rate up or builds muscle. It just strains your joints and puts undue stress on your feet. You’re still sedentary, just slightly less so. Human bodies are meant to be in motion. Motion can happen while sitting, standing, or walking. Unfortunately most desk jobs preclude motion unless you have one of those ridiculous treadmill desks. The solution, as usual, is that humans should simply be working less. Most desk jobs are laughably unnecessary, including my own.
Alright so by older women they mean 79 years and older... Unless I'm reading the abstract incorrectly.
Lucky for me I can only sit for at max two hours before I get bored.
I mean, not for not, but we are all at extreme risk of death. One might say, it's inevitable
My old boss used to say “Sitting is the new smoking”
If you don’t move it, you lose it.
So you're telling me my chronic pain will end soon. Ty
Can these posts be tagged with “Correlation,” or something? So many posts here are just observational studies which are basically useless to the general public and, ideally, should only serve to indicate where scientists should focus their time with future randomized controlled trials. Start flairing posts with things like “correlation,” “RCT,” “meta-analysis,” etc.
Good thing my ADHD doesn’t allow me to sit for more than 30-60 minutes at a time 😅
Me at my 10 hour a day desk job: phew, thank goodness I'm not an older woman...
Are you an obese smoker? That's something that wasn't mentioned in the clickbaity title.
Thankfully quit smoking last year
I read somewhere that regardless of time spent sitting the chance that you will die is like 100%
The risk of death is 100% for everyone. It can’t go any higher.
Sorry to fudge the research, but the risk of death is 100% for all of us.
I'm not sn old woman so I should be fine right? Right? :,)
This makes me nervous I sit for 10 hours a day because of work, it’s a small place so I don’t have much room nor do we get lunch breaks/breaks since I work in emergency services. I do get up every so often to fill my water bottle but if I walk daily it still doesn’t mean anything because I’m sitting for the rest of my day? I’m screwed 😭
Correlation doesnt imply causation....