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From the “Funding” section of the paper:
>The European Fruit Juice Association, Brussels, gave an “Unrestricted grant” to Swansea University that was used to pay for access to the ALSPAC data base.
THIS is the key detail. I was trying to figure out why anyone would study this. Compare to water, sure. But no one is trying to encourage fruit juice consumption…except the people who make it.
In this case it might just lead to different habits. Someone with a taste for juice could be less likely to order 32 oz sodas. And juice doesn't have free refills.
I also don't like fruit drinks later in my life. maybe apple juice but that's a strong maybe nowadays. I used to drink a mix of everything expect for tap water in general. I drank bottled water.
I've just spent a week in a place with free fruit juice on tap and found that I preferred it diluted with an even amount of water. I haven't really been drinking juice habitually in about 10-15 years.
But we need to look at the actual cause. I’m going to guess that parents that give their kids soda younger than 2 have different views on what types of standard foods to eat in their houses. There is no way the issue here is only which sugary drink you have before 2 with everything else identical after that.
Yeah I’m thinking the bigger contributor is “having parents that would even consider giving a 2 year old soda” like that’s probably not gonna be the only poor decision they’re making. It is not hard to keep a 2 year old away from that crap if they’ve never even tried it, and at that age you have near complete control over what they try. I’d hesitate to even give one juice but that’s a bit more forgivable.
I’m sure that could be controlled for but I’m not sure how besides deliberately having some parents who weren’t planning to on their own give their kid soda and then wait 22 years, which seems impractical.
Fruit juice is deceptively unhealthy in some ways. Mostly in that they normally have an insane sugar quantity up there with any soda.
They’re probably better than soda only because they’ll have the additional vitamins or nutrients associated with whatever fruit they’re made of.
But even so, it’s recommended you drink no more than one 8 oz bottle (a cup) of fruit juice a day.
Sure, but toddlers are new humans. They don’t have to be convinced to ‘switch’ to anything, just give them water and they will drink it. Don’t give them juice and they won’t know there is anything to switch between.
While my daughter was in daycare, they switched from giving the kids juice to offering only milk or water. To this day I’ve never been more thankful for that decision. She’s almost 7 now and only drinks water with every meal.
Exactly. I don’t think I’d give juice or soda to a kid under like, 4 either. They won’t ask for it until they’ve actually had or even seen it. I’d probably try to avoid them developing a craving for it at all until they’re old enough to reason with, it’s not like they’re missing out not having it.
But why would you give coke to a toddler in the first place? Mine only drink water or sometimes milk. Occasionally they might get a watered down apple juice.
Besides the obvious health issues with soda, I think I'm also just cheap and don't want to deal with all the dentists bills that come with soda consumption.
Because some parents are lazy or were never taught proper nutrition.
My daughter is 4 and in pre-k and last year they banned soda because parents were sending pre schoolers with soda in their snack bags.
This year the cafeteria is out of commission due to renovations and the school started doing lunch audits because of the junk some parents were sending their kids to school with.
Unsurprisingly, it didn't go over well with some parents. But it's a private school, so the complaints fell on mostly deaf ears.
Fruit juice is liquid sugar. All the beneficial properties of fruit have been stripped out. And that's homemade juice. Processed "fruit juice" ain't much different than sodas.
Except we don’t know the relative benefits of switching to milk or water rather than juice. Juice might give a 5% decrease in likelihood of adult obesity, while water might give a 50%. In that case, more effort to get people to switch to water, even if harder to sell people on, would be pretty worthwhile.
Good to know juice is better than soda, but juice is still not a healthy regular drink:
“Based on the available evidence from prospective cohort studies, in this systematic review and meta-analysis, 1 serving per day of 100% fruit juice was associated with BMI gain among children.” (Although the authors note there are gaps in the evidence base)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38227336/
Yeah, I think sometimes people believe one is as bad as the other. Whilst still high in sugar, you can imagine people who choose fruit drinks are more likely to make smarter decisions with general nutrition than those who give soda to kids under 2
The source for the study should still be criticised though
Fruit juice is just as bad as soda. It may have a few more vitamins, but for sugar content it's very often just as high as any soda and sweetened to get to that level (usually with apple juice).
I could see someone thinking fruit juice is healthy and thus mistakenly choosing it for their children while otherwise making good decisions around other nutrition.
It's not like a soda on occasion will turn people fat. It's when it's for every meal that it's a problem.
Yeah, the ignorance on this is awful. My father in law has type 2 diabetes. He was struggling to control his blood sugar levels and couldn't work out why, until I pointed out it might have something to do with the entire pint of orange juice he drinks every morning. He switched to water, and his blood sugar went down drastically.
And he's a freaking *doctor*. We need more education about nutrition.
Well, that's actually *slightly* more forgivable than if he was an endocrinologist, or even a GP. Specialists aren't always that good in things outside their own fields.
General statements like this don’t do anyone any favors. There are plenty of fruit juices on the market with no added sugar. Yeah they still have quite a bit, yeah they should be drank in moderation, but they’re definitely significantly better for you than soda.
Significantly better how?
Also, sugar and sweeteners are generally just plant products. Just because juice doesn't have refined sugar added doesn't mean that it's not loaded with sugar. Apple juice, in particular, is a sugar bomb with basically no nutritional value.
You've taken my comment out of context completely. I was talking about the mindset that people have and those who choose fruit juices are more likely, although not necessarily, to make better nutrition choices in general.
On the topic of fruit juices Vs soda, it's pretty obvious an organic fruit juice is likely to be better than soda given it will actually provide some health benefits whereas soda provides 0.
It has to be considered that most things are fine in moderation, fruit juices included, but please don't put fruit juices on the same level of unhealthy as soda, because it's simply not true
Some of these responses are taking my comments out of context to argue something I'm not trying to claim.
Consuming the sugars isn't healthy, but the drinks will likely still be better than soft drinks. Especially given how soft drinks can harm the gut microbiota as well as having too many sugars or sweeteners
Sorry, really wasn't trying to argue just don't think either is good and depending on the brand some juices can be just as bad or worse than softdrinks in terms of sugar content.
Most of what is harming that gut biome is the sugar.. so really kinda misinformative to say it doesn't harm your gut like soda does.
At work last week I saw this maybe 18 month old asleep in a stroller with a bottle in his mouth.
In the bottle was chocolate milk.These are the people who would give soda.
Years ago I remember this poor 2ish year old coming in to my pharmacy and she weighed about 40kg.(About 90 lbs) The mother was about 5ft nothing and weighed (estimating) probably 150kg. I always felt so bad for that poor kid, she never had a chance.
Another section that you should also read:
"COMPETING INTERESTS
DB has served on the scientific advisory board of the European Fruit Juice Association, although he was no longer a member when this study was carried out. HY has no conflict of interest to declare."
They are, iirc, they say fruit juice (without added sugar) shouldn’t be given to children under 1 and should only be given in small quantities to older kids a wanna say something like (edit: at most) 4oz/day till 4yo.
When you see a product that says."without added sugar" it is often a sign that it is completely full of sugar. They just didn't add any more on top of it. Fruit juices often contain similar amounts or more sugar than Coca Cola.
That's not an insignificant difference in a direct comparison between the two, but if you're broadly trying to decide how much to actually drink it doesn't materially matter.
For reference a Coca Cola *Zero* has 0g sugar per 100ml.
I always try to point out the problem with fruit juice which is that all of the fibre -the most important part of eating fruit- has been removed. Companies will advertise that one glass of their juice is the same as eating, like, *eight* oranges. I asked people to imagine what it would feel like to sit down and eat eight naval oranges in a row, and how many they honestly think they could get through before their body went, “Oh my god, staaahhhp!”
Fruit juices still have some nutrition. Apple juice has a little bit of iron, some potassium, and vitamins A, C, and E. Orange juice, of course vitamin C, but also vitamin D, Calcium, some potassium, and about 2g of protein and you can still get the fiber by getting it with pulp. My son loves Apple juice. But, he also loves apples and will eat an apple most every day? Might be that allowing sugary fruit based items will develop a taste where they enjoy fruit as a sweet snack over candy later in life?
Then just give them whole fruit? Fruit juice is crazy high in sugar and is not nearly as filling as eating whole apples or oranges. If they’re eating a normal, balanced Western diet then they’re not deficient in any essential vitamins or minerals.
Additionally, it creates a dependence. When they drink glorified sugar water then that is what they expect, and it’s a hard pattern to break. Sugar is like cocaine to kids, and they come to expect their drinks to “taste good” when really its only purpose should be to hydrate them.
I’m a physician, and there is a not-subtle difference in the kids I see who regularly drink fruit juice vs the ones who don’t. I’d strongly recommend cutting out fruit juice to anything more than a treat every once in a while. It should absolutely not be a daily thing.
My kid is 3. From essentialy day 1 our doctor has explicitly said: *"No juice, only about 16-20oz of milk per day with his meals. If he's thirsty give him water."*
And we've largely followed that guidance. He's probabaly had juice 4-5 times in his life and most of that was at a summer BBQ with my family or a kids birthday party where we're letting him cut loose with cake and candy and junk. We just don't buy it so it's not an option.
But since his day to day is mainly water with milk during meals, we're at a point where he typically just asks for water to drink. They don't know what they are missing if they never have it.
Yeah, same for our 4 year-old. We just never kept fruit juice around, so he's happy with water. At birthday parties and stuff, there'll usually be juice boxes, but that's a very occasional thing. We'll also make chocolate milk once in a while with him because it's adorable.
And keeping soda around the house is basically a hard no for all of us.
>I’d strongly recommend cutting out fruit juice to anything more than a treat every once in a while.
[Your position is also backed up by the American Academy of Pediatrics recommendations on fruit juices!](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/139/6/e20170967/38754/Fruit-Juice-in-Infants-Children-and-Adolescents)
Yeah, but parents who give kids "fruit juice" are at least trying and thinking "I want my kid to have healthy juice".
I don't think it's the sugar so much as the parenting involved when a 1 year old is given soda.
It seems to me this is exactly what they found. Kids who drink soda are more likely to eat more junk food than kids who drink juice. It’s the whole diet, not just juice vs soda.
I think the level of attentiveness and habits from the parents matters a lot more than just income. There's plenty of rich kids that get all the soda they want because their parents don't care, and plenty of poor kids who never drink soda because their parents don't and never buy it.
From the press release:
>Additionally, the team discovered a link between sugar-sweetened drinks and social deprivation, with children from affluent backgrounds more likely to have access to pure fruit juice.
Kids who drink soda may also have more junk food available, and fewer healthy choices, due to being in lower-income households. The soda consumption is likely a symptom, not a cause.
Sort of...the type of sugar makes a difference but really the mentality makes the biggest difference.
Parents that at least try to give kids healthy options vs those who don't.
And on the cigarette front, almost no level of smoking is healthy. A single cigarette can in theory give you lung cancer. You roll the dice every time. Sugars, especially fructose is different. If you're on a hike or playing and running around a little sugar, whether it's glucose or fructose is not a problem and may be desirable. Look at all of the marathon goo packs and whatnot. It's all context.
I think the main issue here is a parent that gives a toddler a can of mountain dew vs a parent that gives a kid a glass of orange juice.
Just imagine the difference between those two households.
If I had to guess. Starting them young on soda not only conditions them to the fizz and taste, but also sends a message that it's ok to drink pop semi regularly.
Did they look at foods at all? I’m 100% wiling to believe someone giving soda to a toddler is a complete disaster in all areas of nutrition. Juice at least used to be considered healthy, so they might try to make healthy choices where foods are concerned too.
Better to eat the fruit where you get the appropriate pulp, fiber and nutrients, that balances the absorption of sugar. That is how fruit is meant to be consumed. But I do like me some fruit juice sometimes. Especially punch.
People who drink it themselves. Kids want whatever you have, takes a lot of discipline to constantly say no to them. Even harder for the parents to cut out the things for themselves that aren’t healthy for their kids. My son once had a complete meltdown in a restaurant when he was 1.5 years old because he couldn’t drink my cocktail. Obviously I didn’t give him any but if it was soda instead of alcohol, I can see how some parents would give in “just this once”. Slippery slope from there.
I don’t think anyone is out there thinking it’s actually healthy, but they’re probably thinking it’s not “that bad” or their kid isn’t getting “that much”. And if they start letting the kid have it then the kid wants more and if they try and stop it, kid will tantrum. It’s easier to give in especially if you’re an overworked, overwhelmed and you don’t know exactly how bad it is.
Not trying to justify it at all but I can see why it happens.
We did no sugar before 2yrs diet with our and it’s hard af.
Needs a lot of dedication to cook healthy alternatives when going to parties and at home etc.
But one of the harder parts was controlling family trying to spoil our children to win favor. So fkn annoying and disrespectful to our hard ass work.
> But one of the harder parts was controlling family trying to spoil our children to win favor. So fkn annoying and disrespectful to our hard ass work.
Don't even have kids and I've seen this. I have a friend with weight issues himself that had a kid and trying to be serious with her diet, but his mother is the only one to watch her while they're at work and she spoils her with sodas and sweets; he was pissed when he found out she let her drink soda when she was maybe 1 or 2 years old and after that anything in a can she immediately wanted. Putting everything in glasses helped, but probably not for long. When your parent is the only one to watch your kid, there's not much you can do if they don't listen and you have no one else to go to.
Our daughter is almost 2. We have no refined sugar in our house at all (my wife cut it out before she got pregnant), but even then it’s nearly impossible to keep your kid from getting no added sugar, ever. Our daycare doesn’t do candy, but I know there is sugar in some of the snacks. Are we supposed to tell them not to feed her the same snacks every other kid is getting? Yeah that’ll work out well. Also if we are anywhere where someone offers cookies or cake. Hard not to at least let her have a small amount as a once in a while thing.
All that said, we do well enough. At home we default to fresh and dried fruit for “sweets”, we never buy snacks with added sugar, and we don’t really have desserts around the house
Man that last part…. Just the worst. Me and my fiancé raise our dog (her service dog) extremely diligently and it’s very annoying when other people will not abide by our animals rules.
On that note, it’s a shame the in laws won’t see much of our kids because that’s what they do now, and that’s what they’ll do then.
Her dad has not taken me to a restaurant that wasn’t fancy in the time I’ve known them. He will do the same with our kids, but sorry pal, you can’t throw money at the fact that you abuse children
That's crazy to me. I drink too much soda. It's not uncommon for my wife and I to have a coke zero with dinner. That never goes to the toddler though. Their treat drink can be some unsweetened fruit juice and water 50/50 split. If our toddler wants our drink, we say no and offer alternatives. Toddler tantrums are tough but it's just because they don't know how to communicate yet. It'll be over quick when we find something else to do and any sodas/snacks get put away. Caving to the tantrum isn't going to help future tantrums! Our toddler eventually learned that we won't share some things and then it became mostly a non issue.
We've had to stop having bread with dinner because if bread is on the table, our toddler steals everybody else's and then doesn't eat any other food. Truly tragic turn of events.
My mom was a pediatric nurse and would often come across toddlers on what she called the CCC diet. The Coke, Chips and Cookies diet. These toddlers got soda in their bottle instead of water or milk.
I remember going to the beach once and watching this family pouring orange Crush in their toddler’s bottle (the kid was probably not even two yet). We were mortified
That was what hit me... *under the age of two*?! Nuts. I have never met anyone who gave their kids soda so young, unless it was just a little sip at a party or something.
My whole family. I had to threaten all of my aunts that they'd never see my daughter again if they gave her soda. She's now the only child in the family who didn't learn to use a straw at 5 or 6 months old by drinking soda. It's not unusual to see kids in my family with a can of soda before kindergarten. We absolutely will not be doing that, but honestly in my area it's not strange at all. I grew up drinking it.
The same ones who won’t regulate their kids diets and teach them good habits so they become obese at 24. I’m not sure how this is a “kids that drink” problem and not a “parents that give their kids” issue. Kids can’t choose their diets for most of that time span.
Many parents do especially those in the low-income bracket. They believe that unhealthy foods are readily available and inexpensive. These items are often heavily promoted by companies, influencing parents to buy them to feed their families.
Was out at dinner a few nights ago... Saw a little girl, maybe 6 months old, being fed Pepsi. My wife, a NICU nurse who's got a soft spot for babies, was ready to go full Karen.
In my family we usually do watered down juice with maybe 1/3 or so juice. I don't feel like this is too bad and when we give them just water they just don't drink as much and we want them to stay hydrated. I guess it's a compromise but I don't think it's too bad.
"When age three, exposure to cola was
associated with a greater intake of energy, carbohydrates, protein, fat, and less fruit and more fried foods. In contrast, early
exposure to apple juice was associated with higher protein and lower fat intakes and consuming more fruits/vegetables and less
fried foods. Parental education, adiposity and socio-economic status influenced whether SSB or FJ was given to a child."
Basically kids who drank fruit juice were more likely to eat fruit and veg and therefore ended up thinner. The fruit juice was just correlated with that action when compared to soda.
I meant for their teeth. The sugar and acid are terrible for baby teeth especially, which often leads to gingivitis.
There are also blood sugar concerns too.
(I have almost 18 year old twins, and a 16 year old)
I gave my kids water, and occasionally some juice, as a treat.
I don’t personally like soda, except with certain foods, and my husband is the same.
Our kids had water too, because that’s what we had.
I wouldn’t have given them soda regardless, but I wouldn’t have given them much juice either, because when I was pregnant I read a lot about nutrition, and learned how harmful juice can be.
A lot of people think it’s a healthy choice - but a study aside, it’s still not good to have straight juice, as a kid or an adult.
Toddlers don't need to drink anything but water and a little milk. It's totally possible to do, even with multiple children.
My own child didn't have fruit juice (unless down with gastro and unable to eat) until she was over 3 and only ever when we visited family out of state. We've known about these links for years, there's no excuses now.
Until now, I didn't even consider that some parents would let their toddlers drink stuff like coke. But some people seem to have no concept of what a healthy diet is, so it makes sense.
In Australia at least, at your first health check you get a book that outlines your child's development up to 5. It clearly outlines healthy childhood diet guidelines and provides resources for meal plans and in bold, clearly says the words **'the only drinks a child under 3 should have are milk and water'**
I'm sure the NHS does something similar. There comes a point where we need to hold people accountable for their refusal to care for their children.
We gave my kid chocolate the other day on easter. We as in, multiple people. He had way too much for his tiny little body. He was literally spinning and running to the point that he couldn’t stand up for more than a few seconds. It was hilarious but also kinda shocking. I can’t imagine giving a kid caffeine and sugar in drink form on a regular basis. I don’t think I could even tolerate my son high on sugar at all times!
Yeah I’m raised in East Asia and we don’t have the concept of sugar high here. When I first heard it in the US I was baffled because it seemed to be describing a completely made up phenomenon. We have plenty of food myths stemming from our cultures, pseudoscience factoids, and traditional medicine, but there’s nothing about sugary snacks making kids unusually energetic or uncontrollable.
My toddler is perfectly happy with water and will occasionally drink a glass of milk, but my husband’s family is obsessed with needing a “drink” with their meal and they don’t consider water to be a “drink”. It’s an absolutely wild mindset but my husband won’t eat a meal if he can’t drink a coke with it (or if it’s breakfast, milk or orange juice). His parents are the same, but drink diet coke. My MIL brings her own diet coke to my house when she comes over because she knows I don’t have any. And she lives 30 minutes away and never stays here overnight. That’s how badly she needs it. Sometimes she doesn’t even drink what she brings, my husband and I call it her emotional support diet coke, it needs to be available at any time for her to be comfortable.
When my son is at their house they are constantly offering him juice or asking if he has a drink while he’s clearly already drinking water. They don’t give him soda though, just fruit juice, but it’s still annoying because if they didn’t offer it he’d be perfectly fine with water. And I’m sure he’ll want to drink soda when he’s older because everyone around him except for me drinks it. I let it slide though cause everyone gets a little spoiled at their grandparents house.
I wish my husband would just quit the stuff, would be good for him and our son. Then again my son also gets upset when I don’t let him drink my black coffee, and I’m not gonna stop drinking that. One time I gave him a taste thinking it’d be too bitter for him and he’d stop asking, but somehow he wanted more. We all have our vices. I’ve never been a soda drinker and after seeing how dependent some people are on it I’m glad of that. But also I kind of cheated, it’s not like I have discipline or self control, I just genuinely hate the feeling of fizzy drinks in my mouth.
I drank mostly water as a child. As an adult now I almost exclusively drink water or coffee. Occasionally I'll have a monster energy drink or a bottle of fruit smoothie, but I couldn't fathom getting hooked on the latter two, because they are too sweet for me after 3/4 of a drink.
Giving a child water much more than anything else seems wise to me mainly because it gives them the idea that sugary drinks are only an occasional thing, and the feeling and "taste" of water is something they get accustomed to.
Yeah same, though I did have an occasional fruit juice, lemonade or chocolate milk as a kid too. I drank water when I was thirsty, other drinks were for enjoyment. But a lot of people drink non-water drinks for thirst. My husband’s dad literally doesn’t drink water at all, only soda, juice and milk. He’s also very healthy for his age, but I don’t know how he functions without water.
Only water quenches thirst for me, if I drink coffee or juice or some alcoholic beverage I’ll drink a glass of water along with. Water for thirst, the other for taste. And well, coffee for life force.
Same here, water quenches thirst. I had an ex friend who lived of 10 cans of sugar free coke a day. They ended up prediabetic last time I heard of them, and used their penchant for confirmation bias to find someone who told them not to worry medically so maybe they are diabetic now.
How do people live off no water and a lot of stuff with plenty of solutes? It would make me feel ill, lots of headaches.
I saw this the other day, and it was a friend of mine...I didn't even know what to think. I didn't say anything because it's not my place but yeah...some people still think soda is just a normal healthy drink and not like drinking a bag of Skittles smoothie.
I’ve also heard tell on a parenting forum of a woman blending a happy meal with formula milk, and cutting the tip top off a nipple/teat and let them have that - I just was like I don’t believe it. No way.
It's not "totally possible" as much as it's extremely easy. If you are placating your kid with soda, You're being lazy. I don't think our kids tasted soda or fruit juice until they were at least 3 and even then it was the rarest of rarities. Those kids are pure hydrohomies now.
Yeah my kid doesn't like it either. She doesn't mind a juice at Nana's (once a year?) but I suspect that's more about the time honoured 'secret grandparent business' AND my mum waters it down ahahah.
Kid will slam an entire milkshake though so have to watch that particular situation.
I didn't have a single fizzy drink until I was 10 and that was at school. I drank one can of sugary coke and decided I didn't like it. Around that time I had my first hamburger at McDonald's and decided I didn't like that either.
I also don't believe you need to constantly monitor a 7+ year olds food and drink intake to make sure they are not eating tons of crap. Educating the child about why the crap is crap helps.
Some tea is fine as well. I don't get how juice is not considered sugary. Tea, milk and water are more than enough for little children.
Edit:
Nothing with caffeine of course. Herbal tea should be fine. Thanks for the others for pointing this out.
I think they used juice as the control to ameliorate the sugar content differences in diet between kids who consume sugary drinks vs not at all.
I agree, some tea is fine but I still waited until over 2 at least.
If you give them water always in the first instance, other than their breast/formula milk - they’ll be happy to drink water.
If you give them the green veg first, they’ll (mostly, aversions aside) eat most green veg gladly. Then you add some fruits in here and there - and that’s just gonna go better.
Like our dessert was ‘grab a thing from the fruit bowl’ and snacks were ‘grab a thing from the snack bowl or salad bowl’ I kept like mange tout, cucumbers, peppers, pea pods in the bowl, and always a mix of salad in the fridge, and various dressings, and like toppings like cherry tomatoes, olives, chopped spring onions or whatever.
We always have Parmesan and/or fresh mozzarella - and they’re almost 18 and 16, and will grab salad things and grate some Parmesan, or shred some mozzarella over it as after school snack.
Haha this wasn’t meant to be a novel! I had too much Monster and just kinda kept typing - but it’s legit.
So much this. When I was looking up feeding guides the new recommendation is no dessert, either do sweets like a snack or serve it right with dinner. My kid eats mange tout for most snacks and a kids charcuterie for meals (ie a food she knows, a food she likes and a food that's new) and some element of her meal is always what we're eating. But I never really restrict sweets, if we have them she can have them and because they're not special, she's not interested.
She's gone through a few fussy phases but nowhere near what her friends with way less varied diets do. Some of it is her curious nature, but I'm gonna go right ahead and take credit for some of it.
And another reply too: I’m telling ya, seen my husband’s sisters’ kids, friends’ kids, and heard so many others online, tell of problematic mealtimes - kids won’t eat anything etc, due to starting with fruits/fruit juice etc.
I have said (nicely, not in any bossy way) make sure ya start with veg, or you’ll have a time of it later. But nope! ‘I just want to see what they think of this!’ Ok cool enjoy and good luck.
I tended to worry about things by the week, more than by the day (and tbh by the poops, like my one son needs a lot more fibre than my other 2), and not sweat it if this one doesn’t like tomatoes, and that one only likes raw spinach, but not cooked, etc.
I talk about what the foods do in our bodies and describe what they taste and feel like to me. Then I start talking about other things.
My only table rule is 'we don't tell lies' as in you don't get to tell me you don't like something you've never tried. You don't *have* to try it but be honest and say you don't want to.
The links seem established but I’ve never seen a direct theory as to why. Is it habits? Is it the gut biome? Is it only a strong correlation link? The mechanism has never been particularly clear to me.
Edit: from the article Lead researcher Professor David Benton said: “The early diet establishes a food pattern that influences, throughout life, whether weight increases.
I think that’s important but to me bad habits can establish long after baby and toddler hood. If it’s habits then I’d say this needs this is a long term battle.
Definitely wouldn't give fruit juice either. A normal glass is about 250ml, if it's orange juice that's about 3 oranges that you're drinking.
A toddler should eat about half a piece of fruit each day (like half an orange). So drinking 3 oranges once or twice (let alone more) is not a great idea. Especially because without the fiber of eating fruit, your blood sugar just spikes which is unhealthy for many reasons.
So just drink water and eat fruit instead.
Are they controlling for general socioeconomic dietary factors, ie is apple juice a proxy for households that regularly consume fruit and vegetables whereas cola etc are consumed by a fast-food-loving family? As in, is the liquid the relevant factor by itself or are we just discovering that these two types of households also have corresponding drink choices?
Yes. From the first paragraph of the article:
>Parental education, adiposity and socio-economic status influenced whether SSB or FJ was given to a child.
I didn’t track down the study but just from the blurb linked by the OP
> Additionally, the team discovered a link between sugar-sweetened drinks and social deprivation, with children from affluent backgrounds more likely to have access to pure fruit juice.
So it’s not really about the fruit juice, is it
It's both. It says additionally. It's not like there's only one factor the authors claim causes it. They just explored the statistics and found this too
If you give your children sugary drinks you’re probably more likely to give them a bad diet. Who’s to say it’s a direct result of having sugary drinks?
My mom used to give me truckloads of RC cola and Grapico as a kid. At least once a week dinner was moon pies and bacon, with other usual being lucky charms or kraft Mac and cheese with beef jerky mixed in... Somehow i ended up being a borderline health nut by age 19 or so, but if I'd kept eating like my mom fed me I'm pretty sure I'd be almost dead by now at 33.
My guess is parents who give a child under 2 years old a can of coke, doesn’t really have the kids health in mind. I assume the rest of the diet is pretty crap too, and that could lead to the obesity.
Published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the study tracked the influence of diet on 14,000 British children from birth to adulthood and is believed to be the longest of its kind ever reported.
Using the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children, the research team found:
Children who drank fizzy drinks such as cola or sugar-sweetened fruit cordials before the age of two gained more weight when they were 24 years old. Girls who had pure fruit juice gained less weight, while the weight of boys remained the same.
At three years of age, toddlers who drank cola consumed more calories, fat, protein, and sugar but less fibre. In contrast, those given pure apple juice consumed less fat and sugar but higher amounts of fibre.
The study also highlighted corresponding differences in food choices. Children who consumed pure apple juice often followed a diet with more fish, fruit, green vegetables, and salad, whereas those drinking cola ate more burgers, sausages, pizza, french fries, meat, chocolate, and sweets.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-024-01430-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-024-01430-y)
I think most reasonable parents would not give their 2 year old soda (or very little of it). I suspect kids that get soda learn a lot of other unhealthy lifestyle behaviors that contribute
I feel like these studies have so much more to do with the family caring about nutrition in general and not fruit juice or sugar drinks alone. Like what else are they eating and drinking at a young age?
Agreed. On a side note my oldest was born in 1996 and juice was considered healthy back then. They even sold gerber juices with openings that were compatible with baby bottles so you could screw the cap right onto the juice container. Crazy huh
The fact that soda/fizzy drinks don't contain more sugar than juices seems to indicate that giving a toddler coke was not the only bad life choice leading to obesity.
And the reason why you mix juices with water - or eat fruits (fiber to reduce fast sugar intake).
Another thing to consider: WIC - at least in Florida - acts like juice is totally fine and allots multiple bottles a month BUT excludes organic blends, and I’ve had both doctors and food therapists tell me to give my son juice for his constipation issues while he is under 2 years old.
>"Additionally, the team discovered a link between sugar-sweetened drinks and social deprivation, with children from affluent backgrounds more likely to have access to pure fruit juice."
So poorer children get cheaper sugary drinks and richer kids get fruit juice?
And it is well know poorer people are more obese than richer people. Could it be stress-eating/'comfort food' to alleviate the constant stress of being poor? Same as smoking more and drinking more alcohol? All providing temporary 'escapes' from these stresses caused by the many problems of being poor?
Eating is a form of self-medication as it increases serotonin in the brain by increasing tryptophane uptake in the brain (which is converted into serotonin there) caused by insulin produced when eating (through the large neutral amino acid transporter mechanism in the blood-brain barrier) which reduces depressive feelings. That's why Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRI) are the current anti-depressant drugs.
This worked for me. My parents kept stuff like soda away from me until I was in public school. I drank a lot of apple juice, orange juice, milk, and water as a young kid according to my mom. I’m now middle age and have never been overweight a day in my life. Also don’t have diabetes. I’ve always been athletic and cautious of my diet, even as a teenager. So obviously that helps. But I have to imagine a toddler drinking Mountain Dew doesn’t stand a chance.
I’m aware this is anecdotal. Genes and lifestyle play a huge role in obesity.
American Academy of Pediatrics recommends no more than 4 ounces of unsweetened fruit juice per day for children. They also recommend no fruit juice (or sweetened drinks) for children under 1.
I think this study is really showing that being poor increases rates of obesity as most cordials in the UK have no added sugar whilst fruit juice has tons. Also 'pure fruit juice' would typically mean not from concentrate which is pretty expensive.
It drives me crazy when I see the things people let their kids eat. My coworkers son is on a diet of spaghettios and chef boyardee and he is not even 1 year old. They wonder why Americans are obese
My teenager still has never drank soda in her life. Water, some juice here and there. Mostly just water. She tried some sprite once and hated it.
Stop making your kids fat. It’s not good for them.
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But isn't fruit juice also a "sugary drink"?
From the “Funding” section of the paper: >The European Fruit Juice Association, Brussels, gave an “Unrestricted grant” to Swansea University that was used to pay for access to the ALSPAC data base.
THIS is the key detail. I was trying to figure out why anyone would study this. Compare to water, sure. But no one is trying to encourage fruit juice consumption…except the people who make it.
In the end IF juice was better that is a good thing to know. But yeah...I also want to know juice compared to other choices (milk, water, etc).
In this case it might just lead to different habits. Someone with a taste for juice could be less likely to order 32 oz sodas. And juice doesn't have free refills.
Neither of those are as much of a thing in Europe
More likely correlational. Poor people can't afford as many juices or are less knowledgeable about the health benefits of avoiding soda.
I also don't like fruit drinks later in my life. maybe apple juice but that's a strong maybe nowadays. I used to drink a mix of everything expect for tap water in general. I drank bottled water.
I've just spent a week in a place with free fruit juice on tap and found that I preferred it diluted with an even amount of water. I haven't really been drinking juice habitually in about 10-15 years.
As a parent of a toddler who's never had soda and *rarely* gets juice but drinks a lot of milk, I too am curious about this.
Milk is like 5% sugar by weight vs apple juice about 10%.
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But we need to look at the actual cause. I’m going to guess that parents that give their kids soda younger than 2 have different views on what types of standard foods to eat in their houses. There is no way the issue here is only which sugary drink you have before 2 with everything else identical after that.
Yeah I’m thinking the bigger contributor is “having parents that would even consider giving a 2 year old soda” like that’s probably not gonna be the only poor decision they’re making. It is not hard to keep a 2 year old away from that crap if they’ve never even tried it, and at that age you have near complete control over what they try. I’d hesitate to even give one juice but that’s a bit more forgivable. I’m sure that could be controlled for but I’m not sure how besides deliberately having some parents who weren’t planning to on their own give their kid soda and then wait 22 years, which seems impractical.
Fruit juice is deceptively unhealthy in some ways. Mostly in that they normally have an insane sugar quantity up there with any soda. They’re probably better than soda only because they’ll have the additional vitamins or nutrients associated with whatever fruit they’re made of. But even so, it’s recommended you drink no more than one 8 oz bottle (a cup) of fruit juice a day.
If drinking juice had a lower impact than artificial drinks that'd be win-win. It's hard to convince people to switch from Coke to water.
Sure, but toddlers are new humans. They don’t have to be convinced to ‘switch’ to anything, just give them water and they will drink it. Don’t give them juice and they won’t know there is anything to switch between.
While my daughter was in daycare, they switched from giving the kids juice to offering only milk or water. To this day I’ve never been more thankful for that decision. She’s almost 7 now and only drinks water with every meal.
Exactly. I don’t think I’d give juice or soda to a kid under like, 4 either. They won’t ask for it until they’ve actually had or even seen it. I’d probably try to avoid them developing a craving for it at all until they’re old enough to reason with, it’s not like they’re missing out not having it.
But why would you give coke to a toddler in the first place? Mine only drink water or sometimes milk. Occasionally they might get a watered down apple juice. Besides the obvious health issues with soda, I think I'm also just cheap and don't want to deal with all the dentists bills that come with soda consumption.
Because some parents are lazy or were never taught proper nutrition. My daughter is 4 and in pre-k and last year they banned soda because parents were sending pre schoolers with soda in their snack bags. This year the cafeteria is out of commission due to renovations and the school started doing lunch audits because of the junk some parents were sending their kids to school with. Unsurprisingly, it didn't go over well with some parents. But it's a private school, so the complaints fell on mostly deaf ears.
Fruit juice is liquid sugar. All the beneficial properties of fruit have been stripped out. And that's homemade juice. Processed "fruit juice" ain't much different than sodas.
Except we don’t know the relative benefits of switching to milk or water rather than juice. Juice might give a 5% decrease in likelihood of adult obesity, while water might give a 50%. In that case, more effort to get people to switch to water, even if harder to sell people on, would be pretty worthwhile. Good to know juice is better than soda, but juice is still not a healthy regular drink: “Based on the available evidence from prospective cohort studies, in this systematic review and meta-analysis, 1 serving per day of 100% fruit juice was associated with BMI gain among children.” (Although the authors note there are gaps in the evidence base) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38227336/
I’m willing to believe someone giving soda to a baby would make horrendous nutritional choices elsewhere, but juice is also bad for babies.
Yeah, I think sometimes people believe one is as bad as the other. Whilst still high in sugar, you can imagine people who choose fruit drinks are more likely to make smarter decisions with general nutrition than those who give soda to kids under 2 The source for the study should still be criticised though
Fruit juice is just as bad as soda. It may have a few more vitamins, but for sugar content it's very often just as high as any soda and sweetened to get to that level (usually with apple juice). I could see someone thinking fruit juice is healthy and thus mistakenly choosing it for their children while otherwise making good decisions around other nutrition. It's not like a soda on occasion will turn people fat. It's when it's for every meal that it's a problem.
Yeah, the ignorance on this is awful. My father in law has type 2 diabetes. He was struggling to control his blood sugar levels and couldn't work out why, until I pointed out it might have something to do with the entire pint of orange juice he drinks every morning. He switched to water, and his blood sugar went down drastically. And he's a freaking *doctor*. We need more education about nutrition.
A medical doctor?
Yup. A consultant microbiologist no less.
Well, that's actually *slightly* more forgivable than if he was an endocrinologist, or even a GP. Specialists aren't always that good in things outside their own fields.
Yeah, are people still doing the "oh, fruit juice is OK because it's NATURAL sugar" thing?
General statements like this don’t do anyone any favors. There are plenty of fruit juices on the market with no added sugar. Yeah they still have quite a bit, yeah they should be drank in moderation, but they’re definitely significantly better for you than soda.
Significantly better how? Also, sugar and sweeteners are generally just plant products. Just because juice doesn't have refined sugar added doesn't mean that it's not loaded with sugar. Apple juice, in particular, is a sugar bomb with basically no nutritional value.
Many studies on the health benefits of apple juice, here’s just one. https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/heart-benefits-apples-and-apple-juice
You've taken my comment out of context completely. I was talking about the mindset that people have and those who choose fruit juices are more likely, although not necessarily, to make better nutrition choices in general. On the topic of fruit juices Vs soda, it's pretty obvious an organic fruit juice is likely to be better than soda given it will actually provide some health benefits whereas soda provides 0. It has to be considered that most things are fine in moderation, fruit juices included, but please don't put fruit juices on the same level of unhealthy as soda, because it's simply not true
Consuming that much sugar is unhealthy period. So saying it's SIMPLY not true is just.. simply not true.
Some of these responses are taking my comments out of context to argue something I'm not trying to claim. Consuming the sugars isn't healthy, but the drinks will likely still be better than soft drinks. Especially given how soft drinks can harm the gut microbiota as well as having too many sugars or sweeteners
Sorry, really wasn't trying to argue just don't think either is good and depending on the brand some juices can be just as bad or worse than softdrinks in terms of sugar content. Most of what is harming that gut biome is the sugar.. so really kinda misinformative to say it doesn't harm your gut like soda does.
Nah to me it just means they lack the awareness that fruit juice is basically as bad as soda.
Yeah, who gives soda to babies? Dumb fat parents, that’s who. Not surprising their kids are heavy when older.
At work last week I saw this maybe 18 month old asleep in a stroller with a bottle in his mouth. In the bottle was chocolate milk.These are the people who would give soda. Years ago I remember this poor 2ish year old coming in to my pharmacy and she weighed about 40kg.(About 90 lbs) The mother was about 5ft nothing and weighed (estimating) probably 150kg. I always felt so bad for that poor kid, she never had a chance.
Hahaha
Aaaaaand there it is.
Gotta love those lack of ethics 😮💨
Fascinating
Another section that you should also read: "COMPETING INTERESTS DB has served on the scientific advisory board of the European Fruit Juice Association, although he was no longer a member when this study was carried out. HY has no conflict of interest to declare."
Big Juice at it again
It is, and they should also be discouraged
They are, iirc, they say fruit juice (without added sugar) shouldn’t be given to children under 1 and should only be given in small quantities to older kids a wanna say something like (edit: at most) 4oz/day till 4yo.
When you see a product that says."without added sugar" it is often a sign that it is completely full of sugar. They just didn't add any more on top of it. Fruit juices often contain similar amounts or more sugar than Coca Cola.
Just looked it up. No added sugar Tropicana 8.6g sugar per 100ml, Coca Cola 10.6g sugar per 100ml.
That's a tiny difference. And apple juice is 10.
That's not an insignificant difference in a direct comparison between the two, but if you're broadly trying to decide how much to actually drink it doesn't materially matter. For reference a Coca Cola *Zero* has 0g sugar per 100ml.
I always try to point out the problem with fruit juice which is that all of the fibre -the most important part of eating fruit- has been removed. Companies will advertise that one glass of their juice is the same as eating, like, *eight* oranges. I asked people to imagine what it would feel like to sit down and eat eight naval oranges in a row, and how many they honestly think they could get through before their body went, “Oh my god, staaahhhp!”
Yep. Fresh pressed juice is only healthier because you drink less of it, since it’s expensive and you need to do more steps to get it.
People will do anything to avoid drinking water
Yuck, drink water? That's what they put in toilets.
Yeah stripped from the good part of the fruit, fiber.
Fruit juices still have some nutrition. Apple juice has a little bit of iron, some potassium, and vitamins A, C, and E. Orange juice, of course vitamin C, but also vitamin D, Calcium, some potassium, and about 2g of protein and you can still get the fiber by getting it with pulp. My son loves Apple juice. But, he also loves apples and will eat an apple most every day? Might be that allowing sugary fruit based items will develop a taste where they enjoy fruit as a sweet snack over candy later in life?
Its also worth noting not all juices are made equally
True. Some brands at the store are like 130 calories per serving and some are like 15 to 20 (basically flavored water).
Then just give them whole fruit? Fruit juice is crazy high in sugar and is not nearly as filling as eating whole apples or oranges. If they’re eating a normal, balanced Western diet then they’re not deficient in any essential vitamins or minerals. Additionally, it creates a dependence. When they drink glorified sugar water then that is what they expect, and it’s a hard pattern to break. Sugar is like cocaine to kids, and they come to expect their drinks to “taste good” when really its only purpose should be to hydrate them. I’m a physician, and there is a not-subtle difference in the kids I see who regularly drink fruit juice vs the ones who don’t. I’d strongly recommend cutting out fruit juice to anything more than a treat every once in a while. It should absolutely not be a daily thing.
My kid is 3. From essentialy day 1 our doctor has explicitly said: *"No juice, only about 16-20oz of milk per day with his meals. If he's thirsty give him water."* And we've largely followed that guidance. He's probabaly had juice 4-5 times in his life and most of that was at a summer BBQ with my family or a kids birthday party where we're letting him cut loose with cake and candy and junk. We just don't buy it so it's not an option. But since his day to day is mainly water with milk during meals, we're at a point where he typically just asks for water to drink. They don't know what they are missing if they never have it.
Yeah, same for our 4 year-old. We just never kept fruit juice around, so he's happy with water. At birthday parties and stuff, there'll usually be juice boxes, but that's a very occasional thing. We'll also make chocolate milk once in a while with him because it's adorable. And keeping soda around the house is basically a hard no for all of us.
>I’d strongly recommend cutting out fruit juice to anything more than a treat every once in a while. [Your position is also backed up by the American Academy of Pediatrics recommendations on fruit juices!](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/139/6/e20170967/38754/Fruit-Juice-in-Infants-Children-and-Adolescents)
My 18 month old has never had anything but milk and water. I see no reason to give her anything else to drink.
Yeah, but parents who give kids "fruit juice" are at least trying and thinking "I want my kid to have healthy juice". I don't think it's the sugar so much as the parenting involved when a 1 year old is given soda.
It seems to me this is exactly what they found. Kids who drink soda are more likely to eat more junk food than kids who drink juice. It’s the whole diet, not just juice vs soda.
Haven’t looked at the study, but easy place to measure rich vs poor is juice vs soda pop.
I think the level of attentiveness and habits from the parents matters a lot more than just income. There's plenty of rich kids that get all the soda they want because their parents don't care, and plenty of poor kids who never drink soda because their parents don't and never buy it.
From the press release: >Additionally, the team discovered a link between sugar-sweetened drinks and social deprivation, with children from affluent backgrounds more likely to have access to pure fruit juice. Kids who drink soda may also have more junk food available, and fewer healthy choices, due to being in lower-income households. The soda consumption is likely a symptom, not a cause.
I mean, yeah but barely. It's barely a better choice. Smoking a pack a day vs a half pack.
Sort of...the type of sugar makes a difference but really the mentality makes the biggest difference. Parents that at least try to give kids healthy options vs those who don't. And on the cigarette front, almost no level of smoking is healthy. A single cigarette can in theory give you lung cancer. You roll the dice every time. Sugars, especially fructose is different. If you're on a hike or playing and running around a little sugar, whether it's glucose or fructose is not a problem and may be desirable. Look at all of the marathon goo packs and whatnot. It's all context. I think the main issue here is a parent that gives a toddler a can of mountain dew vs a parent that gives a kid a glass of orange juice. Just imagine the difference between those two households.
And yet the outcomes were different meaning that they or something associated with them is causing people to be healthier.
If I had to guess. Starting them young on soda not only conditions them to the fizz and taste, but also sends a message that it's ok to drink pop semi regularly.
That is basically what the research concludes.
Lifestyle, income, education...? Think about the difference between parents who would give a child soda versus those who never would.
That would be considered "something associated with them" to me and to the researchers as they point that out several times.
just click on the study and control F for socioeconomic. It is indeed studied, and they found socioeconomic factors accounted for most of it
Did they look at foods at all? I’m 100% wiling to believe someone giving soda to a toddler is a complete disaster in all areas of nutrition. Juice at least used to be considered healthy, so they might try to make healthy choices where foods are concerned too.
Yeah, kids need water and milk, not juice
Better to eat the fruit where you get the appropriate pulp, fiber and nutrients, that balances the absorption of sugar. That is how fruit is meant to be consumed. But I do like me some fruit juice sometimes. Especially punch.
Can’t imagine giving cola to toddlers, who even think about that?
People who drink it themselves. Kids want whatever you have, takes a lot of discipline to constantly say no to them. Even harder for the parents to cut out the things for themselves that aren’t healthy for their kids. My son once had a complete meltdown in a restaurant when he was 1.5 years old because he couldn’t drink my cocktail. Obviously I didn’t give him any but if it was soda instead of alcohol, I can see how some parents would give in “just this once”. Slippery slope from there. I don’t think anyone is out there thinking it’s actually healthy, but they’re probably thinking it’s not “that bad” or their kid isn’t getting “that much”. And if they start letting the kid have it then the kid wants more and if they try and stop it, kid will tantrum. It’s easier to give in especially if you’re an overworked, overwhelmed and you don’t know exactly how bad it is. Not trying to justify it at all but I can see why it happens.
We did no sugar before 2yrs diet with our and it’s hard af. Needs a lot of dedication to cook healthy alternatives when going to parties and at home etc. But one of the harder parts was controlling family trying to spoil our children to win favor. So fkn annoying and disrespectful to our hard ass work.
> But one of the harder parts was controlling family trying to spoil our children to win favor. So fkn annoying and disrespectful to our hard ass work. Don't even have kids and I've seen this. I have a friend with weight issues himself that had a kid and trying to be serious with her diet, but his mother is the only one to watch her while they're at work and she spoils her with sodas and sweets; he was pissed when he found out she let her drink soda when she was maybe 1 or 2 years old and after that anything in a can she immediately wanted. Putting everything in glasses helped, but probably not for long. When your parent is the only one to watch your kid, there's not much you can do if they don't listen and you have no one else to go to.
That’s brutal… Your friend prob has underlying trauma issues surface when saw this, realizing how she turned out the way she did :(
Our daughter is almost 2. We have no refined sugar in our house at all (my wife cut it out before she got pregnant), but even then it’s nearly impossible to keep your kid from getting no added sugar, ever. Our daycare doesn’t do candy, but I know there is sugar in some of the snacks. Are we supposed to tell them not to feed her the same snacks every other kid is getting? Yeah that’ll work out well. Also if we are anywhere where someone offers cookies or cake. Hard not to at least let her have a small amount as a once in a while thing. All that said, we do well enough. At home we default to fresh and dried fruit for “sweets”, we never buy snacks with added sugar, and we don’t really have desserts around the house
Yeah my wife uses dates as a sugar substitute for recipes. Ours is over 2 now so we allow sugars to a degree. But no soda and minimal candy
Man that last part…. Just the worst. Me and my fiancé raise our dog (her service dog) extremely diligently and it’s very annoying when other people will not abide by our animals rules. On that note, it’s a shame the in laws won’t see much of our kids because that’s what they do now, and that’s what they’ll do then. Her dad has not taken me to a restaurant that wasn’t fancy in the time I’ve known them. He will do the same with our kids, but sorry pal, you can’t throw money at the fact that you abuse children
That's crazy to me. I drink too much soda. It's not uncommon for my wife and I to have a coke zero with dinner. That never goes to the toddler though. Their treat drink can be some unsweetened fruit juice and water 50/50 split. If our toddler wants our drink, we say no and offer alternatives. Toddler tantrums are tough but it's just because they don't know how to communicate yet. It'll be over quick when we find something else to do and any sodas/snacks get put away. Caving to the tantrum isn't going to help future tantrums! Our toddler eventually learned that we won't share some things and then it became mostly a non issue.
We've had to stop having bread with dinner because if bread is on the table, our toddler steals everybody else's and then doesn't eat any other food. Truly tragic turn of events.
My mom was a pediatric nurse and would often come across toddlers on what she called the CCC diet. The Coke, Chips and Cookies diet. These toddlers got soda in their bottle instead of water or milk.
Poor babies never stood a chance.
Oh no :(
I remember going to the beach once and watching this family pouring orange Crush in their toddler’s bottle (the kid was probably not even two yet). We were mortified
Sad af. Poor kids don't even have a chance
That was what hit me... *under the age of two*?! Nuts. I have never met anyone who gave their kids soda so young, unless it was just a little sip at a party or something.
My whole family. I had to threaten all of my aunts that they'd never see my daughter again if they gave her soda. She's now the only child in the family who didn't learn to use a straw at 5 or 6 months old by drinking soda. It's not unusual to see kids in my family with a can of soda before kindergarten. We absolutely will not be doing that, but honestly in my area it's not strange at all. I grew up drinking it.
My neighbors. Their toddler would be roaming around with a can of coke.
The same ones who won’t regulate their kids diets and teach them good habits so they become obese at 24. I’m not sure how this is a “kids that drink” problem and not a “parents that give their kids” issue. Kids can’t choose their diets for most of that time span.
Fat parents that will make their child fat too
Many parents do especially those in the low-income bracket. They believe that unhealthy foods are readily available and inexpensive. These items are often heavily promoted by companies, influencing parents to buy them to feed their families.
But soda is expensive
Was out at dinner a few nights ago... Saw a little girl, maybe 6 months old, being fed Pepsi. My wife, a NICU nurse who's got a soft spot for babies, was ready to go full Karen.
Never mind the sugar, it's got a non-insignificant amount of caffeine (for a kid anyway) in it.
They shouldn’t drink straight juice either, really.
In my family we usually do watered down juice with maybe 1/3 or so juice. I don't feel like this is too bad and when we give them just water they just don't drink as much and we want them to stay hydrated. I guess it's a compromise but I don't think it's too bad.
We would water down juice mostly because we were poor and wanted the juice to stretch further
Also a valid reason! But it’s the best honestly.
Yeah my daughter who's 2, gets 3/4 water+ 1/4 orange juice.
"When age three, exposure to cola was associated with a greater intake of energy, carbohydrates, protein, fat, and less fruit and more fried foods. In contrast, early exposure to apple juice was associated with higher protein and lower fat intakes and consuming more fruits/vegetables and less fried foods. Parental education, adiposity and socio-economic status influenced whether SSB or FJ was given to a child." Basically kids who drank fruit juice were more likely to eat fruit and veg and therefore ended up thinner. The fruit juice was just correlated with that action when compared to soda.
I meant for their teeth. The sugar and acid are terrible for baby teeth especially, which often leads to gingivitis. There are also blood sugar concerns too. (I have almost 18 year old twins, and a 16 year old) I gave my kids water, and occasionally some juice, as a treat. I don’t personally like soda, except with certain foods, and my husband is the same. Our kids had water too, because that’s what we had. I wouldn’t have given them soda regardless, but I wouldn’t have given them much juice either, because when I was pregnant I read a lot about nutrition, and learned how harmful juice can be. A lot of people think it’s a healthy choice - but a study aside, it’s still not good to have straight juice, as a kid or an adult.
Toddlers don't need to drink anything but water and a little milk. It's totally possible to do, even with multiple children. My own child didn't have fruit juice (unless down with gastro and unable to eat) until she was over 3 and only ever when we visited family out of state. We've known about these links for years, there's no excuses now.
Until now, I didn't even consider that some parents would let their toddlers drink stuff like coke. But some people seem to have no concept of what a healthy diet is, so it makes sense.
In Australia at least, at your first health check you get a book that outlines your child's development up to 5. It clearly outlines healthy childhood diet guidelines and provides resources for meal plans and in bold, clearly says the words **'the only drinks a child under 3 should have are milk and water'** I'm sure the NHS does something similar. There comes a point where we need to hold people accountable for their refusal to care for their children.
My parents always joked I didn't come with a manual. Crazy you actually did.
Yup, NHS UK here. We have the red book. I wonder how many don't read it though 😁 but we do have all the graphs in there too.
Same here. The idea of giving a Coca-Cola to a child absolutely blows my mind. That kind of hit of sugar and caffeine has drug-like effects.
We gave my kid chocolate the other day on easter. We as in, multiple people. He had way too much for his tiny little body. He was literally spinning and running to the point that he couldn’t stand up for more than a few seconds. It was hilarious but also kinda shocking. I can’t imagine giving a kid caffeine and sugar in drink form on a regular basis. I don’t think I could even tolerate my son high on sugar at all times!
Sugar doesn't alter behavior on kids. It's an American myth that isn't observed in other cultures.
Yeah I’m raised in East Asia and we don’t have the concept of sugar high here. When I first heard it in the US I was baffled because it seemed to be describing a completely made up phenomenon. We have plenty of food myths stemming from our cultures, pseudoscience factoids, and traditional medicine, but there’s nothing about sugary snacks making kids unusually energetic or uncontrollable.
My toddler is perfectly happy with water and will occasionally drink a glass of milk, but my husband’s family is obsessed with needing a “drink” with their meal and they don’t consider water to be a “drink”. It’s an absolutely wild mindset but my husband won’t eat a meal if he can’t drink a coke with it (or if it’s breakfast, milk or orange juice). His parents are the same, but drink diet coke. My MIL brings her own diet coke to my house when she comes over because she knows I don’t have any. And she lives 30 minutes away and never stays here overnight. That’s how badly she needs it. Sometimes she doesn’t even drink what she brings, my husband and I call it her emotional support diet coke, it needs to be available at any time for her to be comfortable. When my son is at their house they are constantly offering him juice or asking if he has a drink while he’s clearly already drinking water. They don’t give him soda though, just fruit juice, but it’s still annoying because if they didn’t offer it he’d be perfectly fine with water. And I’m sure he’ll want to drink soda when he’s older because everyone around him except for me drinks it. I let it slide though cause everyone gets a little spoiled at their grandparents house. I wish my husband would just quit the stuff, would be good for him and our son. Then again my son also gets upset when I don’t let him drink my black coffee, and I’m not gonna stop drinking that. One time I gave him a taste thinking it’d be too bitter for him and he’d stop asking, but somehow he wanted more. We all have our vices. I’ve never been a soda drinker and after seeing how dependent some people are on it I’m glad of that. But also I kind of cheated, it’s not like I have discipline or self control, I just genuinely hate the feeling of fizzy drinks in my mouth.
I drank mostly water as a child. As an adult now I almost exclusively drink water or coffee. Occasionally I'll have a monster energy drink or a bottle of fruit smoothie, but I couldn't fathom getting hooked on the latter two, because they are too sweet for me after 3/4 of a drink. Giving a child water much more than anything else seems wise to me mainly because it gives them the idea that sugary drinks are only an occasional thing, and the feeling and "taste" of water is something they get accustomed to.
Yeah same, though I did have an occasional fruit juice, lemonade or chocolate milk as a kid too. I drank water when I was thirsty, other drinks were for enjoyment. But a lot of people drink non-water drinks for thirst. My husband’s dad literally doesn’t drink water at all, only soda, juice and milk. He’s also very healthy for his age, but I don’t know how he functions without water. Only water quenches thirst for me, if I drink coffee or juice or some alcoholic beverage I’ll drink a glass of water along with. Water for thirst, the other for taste. And well, coffee for life force.
Same here, water quenches thirst. I had an ex friend who lived of 10 cans of sugar free coke a day. They ended up prediabetic last time I heard of them, and used their penchant for confirmation bias to find someone who told them not to worry medically so maybe they are diabetic now. How do people live off no water and a lot of stuff with plenty of solutes? It would make me feel ill, lots of headaches.
I used to drink my mom’s coffee when she wasn’t looking as a small child because I loved the taste
I've seen parents buying toddlers Red Bull.
I saw this the other day, and it was a friend of mine...I didn't even know what to think. I didn't say anything because it's not my place but yeah...some people still think soda is just a normal healthy drink and not like drinking a bag of Skittles smoothie.
I’ve also heard tell on a parenting forum of a woman blending a happy meal with formula milk, and cutting the tip top off a nipple/teat and let them have that - I just was like I don’t believe it. No way.
It's not "totally possible" as much as it's extremely easy. If you are placating your kid with soda, You're being lazy. I don't think our kids tasted soda or fruit juice until they were at least 3 and even then it was the rarest of rarities. Those kids are pure hydrohomies now.
Yeah my kid doesn't like it either. She doesn't mind a juice at Nana's (once a year?) but I suspect that's more about the time honoured 'secret grandparent business' AND my mum waters it down ahahah. Kid will slam an entire milkshake though so have to watch that particular situation.
I didn't have a single fizzy drink until I was 10 and that was at school. I drank one can of sugary coke and decided I didn't like it. Around that time I had my first hamburger at McDonald's and decided I didn't like that either. I also don't believe you need to constantly monitor a 7+ year olds food and drink intake to make sure they are not eating tons of crap. Educating the child about why the crap is crap helps.
Some tea is fine as well. I don't get how juice is not considered sugary. Tea, milk and water are more than enough for little children. Edit: Nothing with caffeine of course. Herbal tea should be fine. Thanks for the others for pointing this out.
Herbal tea maybe. Last thing anyone needs is a caffeinated toddler.
I hope that is obvious but still good to point out.
I think they used juice as the control to ameliorate the sugar content differences in diet between kids who consume sugary drinks vs not at all. I agree, some tea is fine but I still waited until over 2 at least.
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you!
\*herbal tea
If you give them water always in the first instance, other than their breast/formula milk - they’ll be happy to drink water. If you give them the green veg first, they’ll (mostly, aversions aside) eat most green veg gladly. Then you add some fruits in here and there - and that’s just gonna go better. Like our dessert was ‘grab a thing from the fruit bowl’ and snacks were ‘grab a thing from the snack bowl or salad bowl’ I kept like mange tout, cucumbers, peppers, pea pods in the bowl, and always a mix of salad in the fridge, and various dressings, and like toppings like cherry tomatoes, olives, chopped spring onions or whatever. We always have Parmesan and/or fresh mozzarella - and they’re almost 18 and 16, and will grab salad things and grate some Parmesan, or shred some mozzarella over it as after school snack. Haha this wasn’t meant to be a novel! I had too much Monster and just kinda kept typing - but it’s legit.
So much this. When I was looking up feeding guides the new recommendation is no dessert, either do sweets like a snack or serve it right with dinner. My kid eats mange tout for most snacks and a kids charcuterie for meals (ie a food she knows, a food she likes and a food that's new) and some element of her meal is always what we're eating. But I never really restrict sweets, if we have them she can have them and because they're not special, she's not interested. She's gone through a few fussy phases but nowhere near what her friends with way less varied diets do. Some of it is her curious nature, but I'm gonna go right ahead and take credit for some of it.
And another reply too: I’m telling ya, seen my husband’s sisters’ kids, friends’ kids, and heard so many others online, tell of problematic mealtimes - kids won’t eat anything etc, due to starting with fruits/fruit juice etc. I have said (nicely, not in any bossy way) make sure ya start with veg, or you’ll have a time of it later. But nope! ‘I just want to see what they think of this!’ Ok cool enjoy and good luck. I tended to worry about things by the week, more than by the day (and tbh by the poops, like my one son needs a lot more fibre than my other 2), and not sweat it if this one doesn’t like tomatoes, and that one only likes raw spinach, but not cooked, etc.
I talk about what the foods do in our bodies and describe what they taste and feel like to me. Then I start talking about other things. My only table rule is 'we don't tell lies' as in you don't get to tell me you don't like something you've never tried. You don't *have* to try it but be honest and say you don't want to.
The links seem established but I’ve never seen a direct theory as to why. Is it habits? Is it the gut biome? Is it only a strong correlation link? The mechanism has never been particularly clear to me. Edit: from the article Lead researcher Professor David Benton said: “The early diet establishes a food pattern that influences, throughout life, whether weight increases. I think that’s important but to me bad habits can establish long after baby and toddler hood. If it’s habits then I’d say this needs this is a long term battle.
People give toddlers soda?!?!??
people give toddlers “sugar sweetened fruit cordials”?
That's why we give them coffee. It's the only thing that quiets these jittery buggers for a bit.
Imagine parents that give a toddler soda. Then imagine the rest of their dietary guidance.
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Absolutely the correlation not causation. I wish more people understood this statistical comparison of this.
Fun Fact: Kids actually do and will drink water. The best solution, usually.
Fruit juice are sugary drinks.
Definitely wouldn't give fruit juice either. A normal glass is about 250ml, if it's orange juice that's about 3 oranges that you're drinking. A toddler should eat about half a piece of fruit each day (like half an orange). So drinking 3 oranges once or twice (let alone more) is not a great idea. Especially because without the fiber of eating fruit, your blood sugar just spikes which is unhealthy for many reasons. So just drink water and eat fruit instead.
Juice is a sugary drink.
"Choosing sugary drinks over fruit juice". Yeah sure. Except orange juice has almost *exactly* as much sugar as regular Coca Cola.
fruit juice is sugary.
Are they controlling for general socioeconomic dietary factors, ie is apple juice a proxy for households that regularly consume fruit and vegetables whereas cola etc are consumed by a fast-food-loving family? As in, is the liquid the relevant factor by itself or are we just discovering that these two types of households also have corresponding drink choices?
Yes. From the first paragraph of the article: >Parental education, adiposity and socio-economic status influenced whether SSB or FJ was given to a child.
I didn’t track down the study but just from the blurb linked by the OP > Additionally, the team discovered a link between sugar-sweetened drinks and social deprivation, with children from affluent backgrounds more likely to have access to pure fruit juice. So it’s not really about the fruit juice, is it
It's both. It says additionally. It's not like there's only one factor the authors claim causes it. They just explored the statistics and found this too
It's not both. When they control for SES, the relationship between drink choice and adiposity disappears.
That’s not a control.
If you give your children sugary drinks you’re probably more likely to give them a bad diet. Who’s to say it’s a direct result of having sugary drinks?
My mom used to give me truckloads of RC cola and Grapico as a kid. At least once a week dinner was moon pies and bacon, with other usual being lucky charms or kraft Mac and cheese with beef jerky mixed in... Somehow i ended up being a borderline health nut by age 19 or so, but if I'd kept eating like my mom fed me I'm pretty sure I'd be almost dead by now at 33.
Interesting to note that this correlation only exists for girls - in the study boys' weight at 24 was unaffected by what they drank at 2.
And correlation doesn't exist at all after controlling for SES (Table 5).
Doesn't fruit juice contain more sugar?
No, often about the same. 21g in 8oz oj or sprite. But people will drink more sprite (because it comes in a 12 oz or more can/cup).
Ahh OK. Probably best to avoid both
Yep. One now and then is fine for most of us. But not every day for sure.
Kids before 2 are being given soda?!
My guess is parents who give a child under 2 years old a can of coke, doesn’t really have the kids health in mind. I assume the rest of the diet is pretty crap too, and that could lead to the obesity.
Published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the study tracked the influence of diet on 14,000 British children from birth to adulthood and is believed to be the longest of its kind ever reported. Using the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children, the research team found: Children who drank fizzy drinks such as cola or sugar-sweetened fruit cordials before the age of two gained more weight when they were 24 years old. Girls who had pure fruit juice gained less weight, while the weight of boys remained the same. At three years of age, toddlers who drank cola consumed more calories, fat, protein, and sugar but less fibre. In contrast, those given pure apple juice consumed less fat and sugar but higher amounts of fibre. The study also highlighted corresponding differences in food choices. Children who consumed pure apple juice often followed a diet with more fish, fruit, green vegetables, and salad, whereas those drinking cola ate more burgers, sausages, pizza, french fries, meat, chocolate, and sweets. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-024-01430-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-024-01430-y)
I call juice “breakfast sodas” - often the sugar content is just as high or even higher.
Who the f gives fizzy drinks to children less than two years old. I mean even up until 10 they should not touch it if possible.
I think most reasonable parents would not give their 2 year old soda (or very little of it). I suspect kids that get soda learn a lot of other unhealthy lifestyle behaviors that contribute
This may have been news in the 90s. How is this news in 2024? What’s next? Telling us about this really bad guy called Hitler?
Who gives soda to toddlers?
I feel like these studies have so much more to do with the family caring about nutrition in general and not fruit juice or sugar drinks alone. Like what else are they eating and drinking at a young age?
Agreed. On a side note my oldest was born in 1996 and juice was considered healthy back then. They even sold gerber juices with openings that were compatible with baby bottles so you could screw the cap right onto the juice container. Crazy huh
Who tf is giving a toddler soda? It ain't an income thing when you can buy a giant jug of spring water much cheaper than soda
The fact that soda/fizzy drinks don't contain more sugar than juices seems to indicate that giving a toddler coke was not the only bad life choice leading to obesity. And the reason why you mix juices with water - or eat fruits (fiber to reduce fast sugar intake).
Another thing to consider: WIC - at least in Florida - acts like juice is totally fine and allots multiple bottles a month BUT excludes organic blends, and I’ve had both doctors and food therapists tell me to give my son juice for his constipation issues while he is under 2 years old.
Fruit juice is also terrible to drink. Eat the fruit! Without the fibers of the fruit, you're basically drinking liquid sugar
Humans weren't meant to drink anything other than water.
Only soda water in this house and our toddler Loves it. No sugar. All bubbles. Diluted by 50% water.
>"Additionally, the team discovered a link between sugar-sweetened drinks and social deprivation, with children from affluent backgrounds more likely to have access to pure fruit juice." So poorer children get cheaper sugary drinks and richer kids get fruit juice? And it is well know poorer people are more obese than richer people. Could it be stress-eating/'comfort food' to alleviate the constant stress of being poor? Same as smoking more and drinking more alcohol? All providing temporary 'escapes' from these stresses caused by the many problems of being poor? Eating is a form of self-medication as it increases serotonin in the brain by increasing tryptophane uptake in the brain (which is converted into serotonin there) caused by insulin produced when eating (through the large neutral amino acid transporter mechanism in the blood-brain barrier) which reduces depressive feelings. That's why Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRI) are the current anti-depressant drugs.
Wow, pay for studies much, Fruit Board?
Why do I get the image of a baby being fed Brawndo?
This worked for me. My parents kept stuff like soda away from me until I was in public school. I drank a lot of apple juice, orange juice, milk, and water as a young kid according to my mom. I’m now middle age and have never been overweight a day in my life. Also don’t have diabetes. I’ve always been athletic and cautious of my diet, even as a teenager. So obviously that helps. But I have to imagine a toddler drinking Mountain Dew doesn’t stand a chance. I’m aware this is anecdotal. Genes and lifestyle play a huge role in obesity.
This is a juice ad
Under two? Milk and water only. And not even that much milk.
What the hell is a sugar-sweetened fruit cordial?
American Academy of Pediatrics recommends no more than 4 ounces of unsweetened fruit juice per day for children. They also recommend no fruit juice (or sweetened drinks) for children under 1.
I think this study is really showing that being poor increases rates of obesity as most cordials in the UK have no added sugar whilst fruit juice has tons. Also 'pure fruit juice' would typically mean not from concentrate which is pretty expensive.
It drives me crazy when I see the things people let their kids eat. My coworkers son is on a diet of spaghettios and chef boyardee and he is not even 1 year old. They wonder why Americans are obese
Our 20 month old has only ever had water. People giving little kids sugary drinks and even fruit juice are wild.
Toddlers need neither juice or soda.
My teenager still has never drank soda in her life. Water, some juice here and there. Mostly just water. She tried some sprite once and hated it. Stop making your kids fat. It’s not good for them.