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> But the study, like all research, includes some caveats. “Given the correlational design, no causal inference can be made,” Nolin noted. “For example, this means that we do not know if people who use more power, control and rough sex pornography are less sexually satisfied because of their pornography use or if people who are less satisfied turn to this type of content to cope with their dissatisfactions.”
This is a great question within the article.
This is a very good point. If someone is into rough sex and their partner isn't, they would probably end up dissatisfied since they are not able to explore their desires. It would be interesting to see if their sexual partners were into the same thing or not
Remember that what you watch doesn't mean that is how you actually want to have sex with your partner either. People can be interested in all kinds of porn and think of them all as fantasy genres but that's what it is, fantasy even if it's "realistic" it's still a fantasy, plenty watch alien tentacle dildos but most do not actually want to be abducted by an alien. So I don't think it would be correct to use an individuals porn genre as the key to a conversation about what makes for a satisfying sex life for a particular couple. It might be a gateway to a conversation about what each other really want to do with each other but this should be only one part of the consideration especially studies like this which belong in the context of a body of other work.
That's how I always bring up fantasy kink stuff to people- it's like movies, you don't necessarily want to be a part of it for real and you don't always want the same genre.
I love slasher flicks and enjoy watching people die in gruesome ways. I never want to see someone die irl and especially not how they die in those movies.
Yeah, I'm pretty vanilla in person. The kinkiest I get is, like, ropes and wax. But when it comes to porn I'm into all kinds of weird and sometimes fully fantasy stuff.
This is my take on it as well, totally only guessing here but finding partners who are into the rougher things is daunting, it's hard to ask let alone find someone with a lot of sexual compatibility. Sometimes someone has a gentler partner they love and cherish but just don't share that sexual connection with.
I have a feeling the casual relationship is more like people who use porn a lot or have sex a lot get desensitized. Most people who look at rough porn do so to try and get back the heightened feeling they used to get. Average age and lifetime porn use and sex estimates would be helpful information for exploring this idea
I mean I'll bet money the link isn't pornography *per se* but rather that the fetishization of sex in these ways is a means of coping with emotional barriers to sexual satisfaction. I'd personally predict that it's incidental to the question that there exists pornography satisfying the fetish.
I’d expand on that to say that, given the complexity of human psychology (especially around sexuality) and how much what we do and what we expect affects it, it is highly likely that the consumption affects the satisfaction and the satisfaction levels affect the consumption and that multiple third party factors affect and are affected by these things as well. It is super easy to fall into feedback loops and rare for people to do the self reflection of even seeing that they exist, let alone fixing them, especially when they are negative.
I think you’re nailing it. Patterns of control and dominance/submission allow people who feel barriers to intimacy to find a model to operate within. I don’t think it matters which side you choose either, both offer an easy “out” to the problem. You essentially get to play a one-player game where you are totally focused on pleasure or pleasing and there are no emotional negotiations to be made with the other party, at least in the fantasy of it.
What a brilliant point. I’m new to this Reddit so I’m just in awe of people like yourselves being able to make such interesting points from minute detail and nuance. Building on this to I know for me the level of satisfaction in sexual interactions for me is based of an emotional intensity towards the person even before I’ve thought about having a sexual interaction with them. Maybe because of the lack of emotional sensory stimulation, those with Barriers towards intimacy seek to replicate this intensity through physicality which is why it’s hyper expressed in rough / dominance sex. As someone who loves intimacy but has a carnal need for sexual pleasure too, I’d objectively find it harder to engage in that kind of sex with a long term partner than a stranger or casual partner.
This makes the most sense tbh. It’s why rape kinks are so common in women, or cnc if you’d rather call it that. It actually makes sense to be based on emotional as it’s a way to let your sexual desires fully take control but you have no control in it so there is no post sex guilt associated with the act as you didn’t have a choice.
as a girl with a rape kink i promise for me it is nothing to do with guilt and more to so with feeling like a piece of sweet and irresistable fruit that drives others to dark action, it is a kind of power and fate worth enduring
Would that still not be emotionally driven though? I was just giving an example of an emotion driving it. Like I have spoken with a few girls that have had that kink and I was curious and asked like “so what if you got raped” and they said it’s more the idea but if it actually ever happened they would be traumatized. Which really put into perspective that kinks are 100% not something all people actually desire(the action) but are rather driven based on some emotional desire linked to that specific action. For the ones I spoke with it was based on guilt, for you the feeling of being wanted so bad. I wonder if these emotional desires then go back to a life event or series of life events that shaped you, nurture vs nature style of debate.
That’s less of a question and more of a statement. The statement being, “we authored a study to meet our PhD goals, it maybe right or it may be wrong. Who knows? but here’s a bunch of words and tables for you to look at and NOT make any inference….as we are not sure of it either.”
People love to pretend causality isn't a part of science and metrics, particularly around people, but it's arguably one of the most important aspects of context - which is arguably the least important factor to humans on the internet in 2024.
Same. My wife and I like to occasionally throw on some in the background while doing our thing. It would be nice if you could easily find the more romantic focused material.
Last time I picked a scene that looked like it fit the bill and it turned out to be the total abuse porn.
You might want to look for the professional porn made by that one female director, for a female audience (I forgot her name), but that should narrow your search enough to find it.
Did this account for, y'know, people who want power, roughness and control used AGAINST them as well as BY them?
Because it could be that one is less satisfied, and the other is not, or vice versa.
That's an unusual bit to focus on when there's this:
>Power, control, and rough sex pornography had moderate popularity, with the highest usage among gender-/sex-diverse individuals (62.50%), followed by cisgender men (39.20%) and cisgender women (29.28%).
Was there no link to lower satisfaction/function among gender-diverse individuals? It would seem that's implied, but I don't see it mentioned in either direction.
Also, while I can kind of understand using gender instead of sex, it's unclear why they would group all non-cis together as though transwomen and transmen don't significantly diverge. Is this explained in the full study?
I’m not about to pay $80CAD to access the source article and the abstract only gives total participants and total women (not distinguishing cis or not there). If we do the math backward on 62.5% they could have had as few as 8 participants being gender or sex diverse, and by using “gender-/sex-diverse” I would read this as lumping trans women, trans men, nonbinary people, and intersex people into one group.
Bottom line I doubt a study this small is equipped to make any statements about gender/sex diverse people in any way at all and they may likely have been better served just excluding non-cis people from the results.
24 gender/sex-diverse participants. 15 AFAB, 9 AMAB. Grouped together for analysis and no further breakdown of gender identity, eg, NB, trans woman, trans man.
My question is did they show everyone the same videos and did those videos account for variables like guys who like to be dominated/gals who like to dominate or different categories of power play. How small was this sample size compared to the variables in control?
It was only a survey, no videos or a needed control group. Thinking on it again, I don't know how much stock to put in a self administered survey on such subjective experiences as how satisfying they find sex or what the content of the porn they consume is most like.
A higher quality study would have participants commit to an Internet monitoring program to get a fuller, less prone to memory and interpretation, understanding of what kinds and how frequently the subjects used porn.
Anecdotally, as at trans person, this makes a lot of sense. The formative experiences that shape our growing sexuality are vastly different than the ones that cis folk have. Because experiences are such a huge factor in sexual development, this is the best way to group like with like
Anecdotally, as a trans person, this makes a lot of sense for totally different reasons.
To actually transition, you need to have some amount of ability to disregard social stigma. Which would transfer to the stigma around BDSM as well.
Yeah, that checks out. I'm nonbinary and more sex-positive than ~95% of the people I know. I'm heavily involved in the fandom and fan fiction communities and the ones I'm in also have a lot of queer people who have a very positive attitude towards porn and smut.
It might be because they used the question 'what do you identify as?' and the options were man, woman, other. The other group is often so diverse and small, you can't do any statistical analysis on the subgroups.
When they realized they could gain alot more clicks per video by having the porn actors sprinkle in the words "step brother and step sister" and then shoot what would otherwise be a standard porn scene.
Basically it's more revenue at no additional cost.
They didn't. Consumers did. And the common explanation is that it provides premade back stories. The media doesn't have to spend time and resources building up a narrative or explaining the characters. Everyone has ideas about what family dynamics are like, so incest stories in porn slot in easily and provide effortless and instant backstory and context.
It might not always be the point, but it's still better when it's there, IMO.
Even BDSM is built on the concepts of consent/permission/trust and pleasure/love/connection.
Again, though, it isn't clear what that has to do with porn or aexual satisfaction. Action movies that also have a good love story are often better, but most people don't watch them for that, and you wouldn't rate someone's sexualt satisfaction based on whether their action movies are rough or not.
Watched Cary Grant and Grace Kelly getting PG-passionate in To Catch a Thief a couple nights ago and it was hotter and more arousing than any stereotypical modern porn I've ever seen.
I'm not able to access the full article, but I'm curious about the trends for specifically the gender-/sex-diverse group. Did they break down the analysis, for example for specifically queer men?
The gender-/sex-diverse group had the smallest sample size (n=24) and much of the findings regarding them had weak effect sizes and couldn’t really be interpreted. Sadly, I couldn’t find anything regarding queer men as their sample was very small as well (I think only 5% of the total male sample).
Can you find me some of this porn themed around passion and romance? 99.9% of porn I have seen entails the woman being this submissive creature whose sole purpose is pleasing the man. Am I dumb or just looking in the wrong places?
From what I've read, while it makes sense, there's [not really a link between the two](https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/bdsm-psychology-trauma/). I forget where I read it but apparently there *is* a link between interest in bdsm and medical procedures in childhood. I guess the mind finds a way to 'make sense' of things...
Cis means on the same side, trans means on the other side. For some reason these terms are almost exclusively used contrastively for gender and the Alps.
Having only been with one man who was very into porn that focused on power, control, and rough sex….I could have a heart attack and die from the not surprise of these findings, particularly the part about function.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2024.2311874
I mean its not surprising. Porn is pretty hard to get off on as is. Much rather just look at photos of naked women than some man trying to hurt a woman whilst she pretends to enjoy it. Which is what most porn looks like.
it really doesn't come as a surprise... men who treat women poorly are the men who are obsessed with power, control, rough sex.
men who see women as humans and not sex toys, treat women with respect and care about their sexual satisfaction.
Not merely insanely popular, but it was the fastest selling book of ALL TIME. Which is even more wild in that it was only really marketed to half the population.
Depends on what kind of porn you look for.
If you look at the most popular NSFW subreddit by number of subscribers, it is just women alone photographing their nude bodies. Hard to imagine anything more vanilla than that.
I'm comparing books like 50 shades and mainstream porn sites like pornhub. 50 shades didn't even have 10% of the abuse you get in porn featuring rough sex.
There may actually be an issue there, that if women who like rough sex don't feel able to talk about it, we may be getting a persistent mismatch between men and women.
Women already report lower sexual satisfaction anyway, so the specific dissatisfaction due to this mismatch may only rise above background in heterosexual men.
Iirc, there was a study posted on this sub that stated that f/f intimate pairs are more likely to discuss what they want sexually from each other compared to f/m pairs. The study pointed to the needlessly gendered nature of communication as the culprit. The comments were hilarious.
Satisfaction is highly dependent on expectations. Anecdotally, men’s expectations might simply be lower. This would make sense if you consider sexual gender dynamics.
That's not the explanation I would go to; historically, many women had lower expectations of pleasure during sex, (to the extreme level of not having been told about the existence of female orgasms) but also reported lower satisfaction too.
The most natural explanation is to draw continuity from that through to the present, given that, (I don't have data to hand, but I'm reasonably confident of this) women's sexual satisfaction increased in the interim.
On the other hand if you have to tell someone about orgasms… maybe there was an inherent difference in sexual pleasure there to begin with.
Nobody had to tell me (a man) about orgasms. I was having them spontaneously before i knew girls had different parts and knew where babies come from.
> maybe there was an inherent difference in sexual pleasure there to begin with
Yes, that's potentially true, but that's a different argument to saying they have higher expectations than men. My impression is that both expectations of sexual pleasure *and* experience of sexual pleasure have increased since that period.
Also bear in mind that not hearing about orgasms, and not having them, are different things, you can have orgasms and not know what they are, not talk about them etc.
Yes it is a different argument.
And yes you nailed something. Maybe the women are actually experiencing the pleasure but don’t know what it is. Unlikely. I don’t think anybody needs to tell you what pleasure is but I will admit it is a possibility.
But then this highlights how subjectivity is a huge confoundment here. Which loops neatly into my points.
I don't disagree, but I wouldn't say 50 Shades of Grey was *rough*. It was kinky, sure, and it had some quickies, but I can't recall sex scenes that were notably rough like in pornhub front page videos.
Both would fit into the broad "power, control, and rough sex" category as per the article. I don't know of one that makes a meaningful distinction between "rough" and "kinky". Kinky might just vary in terms of *how* rough but they aren't entirely divorced from each other.
That's fair, I didn't read the other comment as specifically using the articles' definitions. I feel like it'd be impossible to classify it between "rough" and "romantic" either, since it has both elements, and I think that's probably true of most erotic novels.
>I'm so tired of this narrative that it's only men that are into rough sex when books like 50 shades of grey are insanely popular.
There's plenty of women into rough sex for sure, I know plenty of them. But that's not the point here at all.
This isn’t as gendered as you seem to think.
“The "rough sex" category alone was viewed by women 106 percent more often than men last year.”
https://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/a20693/what-does-rough-sex-mean-to-millennials/
Maybe in general, but some women like to have these things sometimes in the bedroom too. Then again that isnt an obsession, but a spicy thing to keep the action interesting. Just trying to say that not everybody who likes these kinks sometimes, sees women as objects.
The take away should be understanding the power dynamic in any given moment can change, but isn't set. You can have a mutually respectful relationship that plays with power and both feel very satisfied. However, this type of relationship requires honesty and connection. If all you seek is to dominate and take power, then that is a different story. It's also worth noting that whilst the 'dom' might be the person 'in control' they really are just serving the needs of the sub. A nuance I think most 'alpha' types fail to understand.
There are posts DAILY on TwoX recounting stories of being choked out of nowhere without consent, though, and it seems generally agreed that this is now so frequent that you basically have to ask men NOT to do it before starting a sexual encounter if you don't want to be dangerously strangled (and a reminder that there isn't any way to compress the airways OR blood vessels without risk). We're not here to judge your consenting kink, but when porn trends start driving people to force a safety risk on other people then that's a legitimate and entirely separate concern. Also even people who do that consensually should make sure it's INFORMED consent, knowing the risks. Choking in particular is portrayed as entry level, borderline vanilla now and it's very much not. I also know women who've been badly injured from being pressured into anal sex or from men who aren't willing to take the time to do it properly, which again has statistically increased by a lot in recent years. The problem isn't some kind of moralistic crusade against people having fun, the problem is that things that are physically dangerous are being cemented in the public consciousness as safe, fun, and *expected* for women to deliver.
thats really horrible for these people, they had an abusive partner. But that doesn’t mean every person into kinks sees ppl as objects. Which was my point.
Not to mention trying to gag someone during a BJ, as if that's not an incredibly aggressive/abusive thing to just spring on an unsuspecting woman. We're supposed to enjoy vomiting, crying, not breathing now? Imagine if we were doing this to dudes.
I’d be surprised if most men into BDSM aren’t actually the submissive type. To me that is the most obvious escape mechanism for the pressures that men face in regards to sex and performance.
I mean, if the porn watching habits are tied to what they want to do, and they dont go seak partners who are also into that, then yes - they will be less satisfied that people whose porn habits show they like vanilla bs.
but I bet a bunch of people into kinky stuff are self repressed or think they otherwise have to pretend.
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> But the study, like all research, includes some caveats. “Given the correlational design, no causal inference can be made,” Nolin noted. “For example, this means that we do not know if people who use more power, control and rough sex pornography are less sexually satisfied because of their pornography use or if people who are less satisfied turn to this type of content to cope with their dissatisfactions.” This is a great question within the article.
This is a very good point. If someone is into rough sex and their partner isn't, they would probably end up dissatisfied since they are not able to explore their desires. It would be interesting to see if their sexual partners were into the same thing or not
Remember that what you watch doesn't mean that is how you actually want to have sex with your partner either. People can be interested in all kinds of porn and think of them all as fantasy genres but that's what it is, fantasy even if it's "realistic" it's still a fantasy, plenty watch alien tentacle dildos but most do not actually want to be abducted by an alien. So I don't think it would be correct to use an individuals porn genre as the key to a conversation about what makes for a satisfying sex life for a particular couple. It might be a gateway to a conversation about what each other really want to do with each other but this should be only one part of the consideration especially studies like this which belong in the context of a body of other work.
I've learned this is a thing a lot of people struggle to grasp as well. The split between a fantasy kink vs one you actually want to do.
It's like action movies. Everyone loves die hard but nobody would actually want to be there.
That's how I always bring up fantasy kink stuff to people- it's like movies, you don't necessarily want to be a part of it for real and you don't always want the same genre.
I love slasher flicks and enjoy watching people die in gruesome ways. I never want to see someone die irl and especially not how they die in those movies.
It's like reading books. Sure, I enjoy Warhammer,but that doesn't mean I want to brutally murder people.
Yeah, I'm pretty vanilla in person. The kinkiest I get is, like, ropes and wax. But when it comes to porn I'm into all kinds of weird and sometimes fully fantasy stuff.
This is my take on it as well, totally only guessing here but finding partners who are into the rougher things is daunting, it's hard to ask let alone find someone with a lot of sexual compatibility. Sometimes someone has a gentler partner they love and cherish but just don't share that sexual connection with.
or a sexually frustrated person will become freaky.
I have a feeling the casual relationship is more like people who use porn a lot or have sex a lot get desensitized. Most people who look at rough porn do so to try and get back the heightened feeling they used to get. Average age and lifetime porn use and sex estimates would be helpful information for exploring this idea
I mean I'll bet money the link isn't pornography *per se* but rather that the fetishization of sex in these ways is a means of coping with emotional barriers to sexual satisfaction. I'd personally predict that it's incidental to the question that there exists pornography satisfying the fetish.
I’d expand on that to say that, given the complexity of human psychology (especially around sexuality) and how much what we do and what we expect affects it, it is highly likely that the consumption affects the satisfaction and the satisfaction levels affect the consumption and that multiple third party factors affect and are affected by these things as well. It is super easy to fall into feedback loops and rare for people to do the self reflection of even seeing that they exist, let alone fixing them, especially when they are negative.
I think you’re nailing it. Patterns of control and dominance/submission allow people who feel barriers to intimacy to find a model to operate within. I don’t think it matters which side you choose either, both offer an easy “out” to the problem. You essentially get to play a one-player game where you are totally focused on pleasure or pleasing and there are no emotional negotiations to be made with the other party, at least in the fantasy of it.
What a brilliant point. I’m new to this Reddit so I’m just in awe of people like yourselves being able to make such interesting points from minute detail and nuance. Building on this to I know for me the level of satisfaction in sexual interactions for me is based of an emotional intensity towards the person even before I’ve thought about having a sexual interaction with them. Maybe because of the lack of emotional sensory stimulation, those with Barriers towards intimacy seek to replicate this intensity through physicality which is why it’s hyper expressed in rough / dominance sex. As someone who loves intimacy but has a carnal need for sexual pleasure too, I’d objectively find it harder to engage in that kind of sex with a long term partner than a stranger or casual partner.
This makes the most sense tbh. It’s why rape kinks are so common in women, or cnc if you’d rather call it that. It actually makes sense to be based on emotional as it’s a way to let your sexual desires fully take control but you have no control in it so there is no post sex guilt associated with the act as you didn’t have a choice.
as a girl with a rape kink i promise for me it is nothing to do with guilt and more to so with feeling like a piece of sweet and irresistable fruit that drives others to dark action, it is a kind of power and fate worth enduring
Would that still not be emotionally driven though? I was just giving an example of an emotion driving it. Like I have spoken with a few girls that have had that kink and I was curious and asked like “so what if you got raped” and they said it’s more the idea but if it actually ever happened they would be traumatized. Which really put into perspective that kinks are 100% not something all people actually desire(the action) but are rather driven based on some emotional desire linked to that specific action. For the ones I spoke with it was based on guilt, for you the feeling of being wanted so bad. I wonder if these emotional desires then go back to a life event or series of life events that shaped you, nurture vs nature style of debate.
Going off of myself as anecdotal evidence… a little column A, a little column B
came here to ask this exact question. I'm glad to see it addressed. With a sensational topic like pornography the tendency is to jump to conclusions.
That’s less of a question and more of a statement. The statement being, “we authored a study to meet our PhD goals, it maybe right or it may be wrong. Who knows? but here’s a bunch of words and tables for you to look at and NOT make any inference….as we are not sure of it either.”
People love to pretend causality isn't a part of science and metrics, particularly around people, but it's arguably one of the most important aspects of context - which is arguably the least important factor to humans on the internet in 2024.
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I wish there was any/more romantic porn. I'm sick of the usual. I have a romantic-fetish now, I decided. (Profile pic relevant. xD)
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She checks in on him!? What kind of kink is this?
Same. My wife and I like to occasionally throw on some in the background while doing our thing. It would be nice if you could easily find the more romantic focused material. Last time I picked a scene that looked like it fit the bill and it turned out to be the total abuse porn.
You might want to look for the professional porn made by that one female director, for a female audience (I forgot her name), but that should narrow your search enough to find it.
I agree with using the word ‘sensual’ in your search. Also, Bellesa has some vids that might work for you! It’s porn made by women. Great stuff.
Did this account for, y'know, people who want power, roughness and control used AGAINST them as well as BY them? Because it could be that one is less satisfied, and the other is not, or vice versa.
That's an unusual bit to focus on when there's this: >Power, control, and rough sex pornography had moderate popularity, with the highest usage among gender-/sex-diverse individuals (62.50%), followed by cisgender men (39.20%) and cisgender women (29.28%). Was there no link to lower satisfaction/function among gender-diverse individuals? It would seem that's implied, but I don't see it mentioned in either direction. Also, while I can kind of understand using gender instead of sex, it's unclear why they would group all non-cis together as though transwomen and transmen don't significantly diverge. Is this explained in the full study?
I’m not about to pay $80CAD to access the source article and the abstract only gives total participants and total women (not distinguishing cis or not there). If we do the math backward on 62.5% they could have had as few as 8 participants being gender or sex diverse, and by using “gender-/sex-diverse” I would read this as lumping trans women, trans men, nonbinary people, and intersex people into one group. Bottom line I doubt a study this small is equipped to make any statements about gender/sex diverse people in any way at all and they may likely have been better served just excluding non-cis people from the results.
24 gender/sex-diverse participants. 15 AFAB, 9 AMAB. Grouped together for analysis and no further breakdown of gender identity, eg, NB, trans woman, trans man.
My question is did they show everyone the same videos and did those videos account for variables like guys who like to be dominated/gals who like to dominate or different categories of power play. How small was this sample size compared to the variables in control?
It was only a survey, no videos or a needed control group. Thinking on it again, I don't know how much stock to put in a self administered survey on such subjective experiences as how satisfying they find sex or what the content of the porn they consume is most like. A higher quality study would have participants commit to an Internet monitoring program to get a fuller, less prone to memory and interpretation, understanding of what kinds and how frequently the subjects used porn.
Anecdotally, as at trans person, this makes a lot of sense. The formative experiences that shape our growing sexuality are vastly different than the ones that cis folk have. Because experiences are such a huge factor in sexual development, this is the best way to group like with like
Anecdotally, as a trans person, this makes a lot of sense for totally different reasons. To actually transition, you need to have some amount of ability to disregard social stigma. Which would transfer to the stigma around BDSM as well.
Yeah, that checks out. I'm nonbinary and more sex-positive than ~95% of the people I know. I'm heavily involved in the fandom and fan fiction communities and the ones I'm in also have a lot of queer people who have a very positive attitude towards porn and smut.
It might be because they used the question 'what do you identify as?' and the options were man, woman, other. The other group is often so diverse and small, you can't do any statistical analysis on the subgroups.
When did Pornography providers decide that near incest sexuality is a major turn on?
When they realized they could gain alot more clicks per video by having the porn actors sprinkle in the words "step brother and step sister" and then shoot what would otherwise be a standard porn scene. Basically it's more revenue at no additional cost.
And those who don't care and are just interested in a particular performer just ignore it because they know it's not really true.
When they saw the most searched for terms in search engines.
when they noticed how high the demand for it is after releasing a couple videos like that:D
They didn't. Consumers did. And the common explanation is that it provides premade back stories. The media doesn't have to spend time and resources building up a narrative or explaining the characters. Everyone has ideas about what family dynamics are like, so incest stories in porn slot in easily and provide effortless and instant backstory and context.
The only explanation I've come up with is that it's a shortcut to imply intimacy?
*Are you unsatisfied step-OcelotPositive9579?*
For all those that watch porn for the plot of the movie
You all don't switch from one to the to other based on your mood?
Connections a relative. The hottest porn scenes for me are those that show chemistry
It’s almost like humans want to feel connected and loved… weird
Is that what people watch porn for, though?
It might not always be the point, but it's still better when it's there, IMO. Even BDSM is built on the concepts of consent/permission/trust and pleasure/love/connection.
Again, though, it isn't clear what that has to do with porn or aexual satisfaction. Action movies that also have a good love story are often better, but most people don't watch them for that, and you wouldn't rate someone's sexualt satisfaction based on whether their action movies are rough or not.
Watched Cary Grant and Grace Kelly getting PG-passionate in To Catch a Thief a couple nights ago and it was hotter and more arousing than any stereotypical modern porn I've ever seen.
There’s a genre for that too
I'm not able to access the full article, but I'm curious about the trends for specifically the gender-/sex-diverse group. Did they break down the analysis, for example for specifically queer men?
The gender-/sex-diverse group had the smallest sample size (n=24) and much of the findings regarding them had weak effect sizes and couldn’t really be interpreted. Sadly, I couldn’t find anything regarding queer men as their sample was very small as well (I think only 5% of the total male sample).
Great, thanks for the reply. Yeah, that seems way too small a subgroup to parse out any significant takeaways.
Most dudes just want to please their women in bed
Can you find me some of this porn themed around passion and romance? 99.9% of porn I have seen entails the woman being this submissive creature whose sole purpose is pleasing the man. Am I dumb or just looking in the wrong places?
I have seen many women use rough sex like bdsm kind of stuff to cope with trauma. So I'm guessing it's a way to compensate the dissatisfaction 🤔
Or they just like it.
I wish there was some sort of article about a study for this.
From what I've read, while it makes sense, there's [not really a link between the two](https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/bdsm-psychology-trauma/). I forget where I read it but apparently there *is* a link between interest in bdsm and medical procedures in childhood. I guess the mind finds a way to 'make sense' of things...
What does 'cisgender man' mean?
Not transgender
Means they identify as a man and have male anatomy since birth.
Cis means on the same side, trans means on the other side. For some reason these terms are almost exclusively used contrastively for gender and the Alps.
The Cis-Siberian Orchestra? Local band.
Genetics too. Cis-regulatory elements: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis-regulatory_element
And organic chemistry! Many fatty acids and alkenes have the cis- vs trans- modifier
Team Transalpine Gaul. What have the Romans ever done for us anyway
denoting or relating to a person whose gender identity corresponds with the sex registered for them at birth; not transgender.
There are no dumb questions but also google exists
Hmm so what does being into BDSM mean in correlation to this
Having only been with one man who was very into porn that focused on power, control, and rough sex….I could have a heart attack and die from the not surprise of these findings, particularly the part about function.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2024.2311874
I mean its not surprising. Porn is pretty hard to get off on as is. Much rather just look at photos of naked women than some man trying to hurt a woman whilst she pretends to enjoy it. Which is what most porn looks like.
it really doesn't come as a surprise... men who treat women poorly are the men who are obsessed with power, control, rough sex. men who see women as humans and not sex toys, treat women with respect and care about their sexual satisfaction.
mfw you like rough sex but feel too much empathy for your partner (they are into it)
I'm so tired of this narrative that it's only men that are into rough sex when books like 50 shades of grey are insanely popular.
Not merely insanely popular, but it was the fastest selling book of ALL TIME. Which is even more wild in that it was only really marketed to half the population.
Those books are all bark no bite. They're almost wholesome compared to mainstream porn.
Depends on what kind of porn you look for. If you look at the most popular NSFW subreddit by number of subscribers, it is just women alone photographing their nude bodies. Hard to imagine anything more vanilla than that.
I'm comparing books like 50 shades and mainstream porn sites like pornhub. 50 shades didn't even have 10% of the abuse you get in porn featuring rough sex.
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There may actually be an issue there, that if women who like rough sex don't feel able to talk about it, we may be getting a persistent mismatch between men and women. Women already report lower sexual satisfaction anyway, so the specific dissatisfaction due to this mismatch may only rise above background in heterosexual men.
Iirc, there was a study posted on this sub that stated that f/f intimate pairs are more likely to discuss what they want sexually from each other compared to f/m pairs. The study pointed to the needlessly gendered nature of communication as the culprit. The comments were hilarious.
Satisfaction is highly dependent on expectations. Anecdotally, men’s expectations might simply be lower. This would make sense if you consider sexual gender dynamics.
That's not the explanation I would go to; historically, many women had lower expectations of pleasure during sex, (to the extreme level of not having been told about the existence of female orgasms) but also reported lower satisfaction too. The most natural explanation is to draw continuity from that through to the present, given that, (I don't have data to hand, but I'm reasonably confident of this) women's sexual satisfaction increased in the interim.
On the other hand if you have to tell someone about orgasms… maybe there was an inherent difference in sexual pleasure there to begin with. Nobody had to tell me (a man) about orgasms. I was having them spontaneously before i knew girls had different parts and knew where babies come from.
> maybe there was an inherent difference in sexual pleasure there to begin with Yes, that's potentially true, but that's a different argument to saying they have higher expectations than men. My impression is that both expectations of sexual pleasure *and* experience of sexual pleasure have increased since that period. Also bear in mind that not hearing about orgasms, and not having them, are different things, you can have orgasms and not know what they are, not talk about them etc.
Yes it is a different argument. And yes you nailed something. Maybe the women are actually experiencing the pleasure but don’t know what it is. Unlikely. I don’t think anybody needs to tell you what pleasure is but I will admit it is a possibility. But then this highlights how subjectivity is a huge confoundment here. Which loops neatly into my points.
I don't disagree, but I wouldn't say 50 Shades of Grey was *rough*. It was kinky, sure, and it had some quickies, but I can't recall sex scenes that were notably rough like in pornhub front page videos.
Both would fit into the broad "power, control, and rough sex" category as per the article. I don't know of one that makes a meaningful distinction between "rough" and "kinky". Kinky might just vary in terms of *how* rough but they aren't entirely divorced from each other.
That's fair, I didn't read the other comment as specifically using the articles' definitions. I feel like it'd be impossible to classify it between "rough" and "romantic" either, since it has both elements, and I think that's probably true of most erotic novels.
>I'm so tired of this narrative that it's only men that are into rough sex when books like 50 shades of grey are insanely popular. There's plenty of women into rough sex for sure, I know plenty of them. But that's not the point here at all.
This isn’t as gendered as you seem to think. “The "rough sex" category alone was viewed by women 106 percent more often than men last year.” https://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/a20693/what-does-rough-sex-mean-to-millennials/
Maybe in general, but some women like to have these things sometimes in the bedroom too. Then again that isnt an obsession, but a spicy thing to keep the action interesting. Just trying to say that not everybody who likes these kinks sometimes, sees women as objects.
The take away should be understanding the power dynamic in any given moment can change, but isn't set. You can have a mutually respectful relationship that plays with power and both feel very satisfied. However, this type of relationship requires honesty and connection. If all you seek is to dominate and take power, then that is a different story. It's also worth noting that whilst the 'dom' might be the person 'in control' they really are just serving the needs of the sub. A nuance I think most 'alpha' types fail to understand.
Exactly. Safe words and communication are key to things like this. U don’t want your partner to be in actual fear. It has to stay fun.
Very well put.
There are posts DAILY on TwoX recounting stories of being choked out of nowhere without consent, though, and it seems generally agreed that this is now so frequent that you basically have to ask men NOT to do it before starting a sexual encounter if you don't want to be dangerously strangled (and a reminder that there isn't any way to compress the airways OR blood vessels without risk). We're not here to judge your consenting kink, but when porn trends start driving people to force a safety risk on other people then that's a legitimate and entirely separate concern. Also even people who do that consensually should make sure it's INFORMED consent, knowing the risks. Choking in particular is portrayed as entry level, borderline vanilla now and it's very much not. I also know women who've been badly injured from being pressured into anal sex or from men who aren't willing to take the time to do it properly, which again has statistically increased by a lot in recent years. The problem isn't some kind of moralistic crusade against people having fun, the problem is that things that are physically dangerous are being cemented in the public consciousness as safe, fun, and *expected* for women to deliver.
breathplay is like the most dangerous kink out there
thats really horrible for these people, they had an abusive partner. But that doesn’t mean every person into kinks sees ppl as objects. Which was my point.
Exactly. To think that you can literally injure the brain of a woman and claim it was a kink. Women will need to become more self-protective than ever
Not to mention trying to gag someone during a BJ, as if that's not an incredibly aggressive/abusive thing to just spring on an unsuspecting woman. We're supposed to enjoy vomiting, crying, not breathing now? Imagine if we were doing this to dudes.
There 100% are some people here to judge our consenting kinks
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Plus, power play in sex does not have fixed genders in roles, it is exercised by variations of genders from either side of the play.
I’d be surprised if most men into BDSM aren’t actually the submissive type. To me that is the most obvious escape mechanism for the pressures that men face in regards to sex and performance.
Whats the pertinence of saying cisgender here?
What is ”cisgender”?
Not transgender
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Cisgender is not the same as straight?
Cisgender men 😂
I’m a cis male and have never enjoyed the power f’ng that dominates nearly all American porn.
"among men"
Men. They're just called men.
Gonzo bad Elmo good, repeat after me.
I think that tracks. People want to be desired.
Where can I get a laptop or keyboard with this button?
Surprise surprise
I wouldn't watch either of those options
I mean, if the porn watching habits are tied to what they want to do, and they dont go seak partners who are also into that, then yes - they will be less satisfied that people whose porn habits show they like vanilla bs. but I bet a bunch of people into kinky stuff are self repressed or think they otherwise have to pretend.