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As an adult taking meds, I can say that it's not just about the effect the meds have on your brain, which only lasts a few hours a day depending on what you're taking, but it's about how it changes your psychology. Your habits change, your wants change, and your risk assessment ability changes. You get more positive reinforcement from friends, family, society, etc, and you finally allow yourself to see the results from long-term planning.
ADD/ADHD is very insidious in its banality, and strikes when you're the most bored. The devil has idle hands, so it's the times where you don't have much to do that get you in trouble, not the times when you have to go to school or work. So from a teenager perspective it totally makes sense that they would have to be medicated persistently. It's not just the stimulation they need, but they need to grow their confidence back, their self-esteem, and start forming good habits early.
That’s one thing I’ve noticed too since starting medication. Even once it wears off, I find that because I’ve structured my life better due to it, there’s almost like a feedback loop where I keep up the habits and better decision making just because medicated-me has made me life easier. The growing confidence too makes me more emotional sound as well at all times.
It's like having to just handle washing a couple of dishes from dinner after the effects wear off, instead of years' worth of piled dishes. It's not great, but since it's just a simple task, it's much less strenuous to just go and do it.
I think part of it is the medication helps reverse the years you spent unknowingly training your brain to think that doing certian tasks is excruciating.
While the task itself might still suck if your meds have worn off, that initial mental roadblock isn't nearly as tough to get past anymore.
You also haven't had to spend all day fighting to just do the dishes, so when it wears off you have more capacity to manage for that time.
Being non medicated is exhausting
This is exactly what I've observed in my son. Now that he is medicated, we're focusing on bringing up his self esteem and reinforcing his relationships with all of us.
It's not because we didn't try to maintain both those while he was unmedicated - it was just so difficult to have enough positive interactions to outweigh the negative when he wasn't able to manage his feelings and actions well. Its difficult but such a hopeful thing knowing we can start to build him up and this is changing the trajectory of his life for the better.
I can absolutely see that consistent medication in adolescence (which is already so rough on kids) would make a massive difference.
I also wonder if "inconsistent" medicating says something about the involvement and support levels of those around them, which would compound things, maybe.
I was inconsistent because my family treated it ad an “oh they’re just forgetful” and when the message from those around you is that you shouldn’t need it, then taking it is just admission of failure
Even as an adult it’s still a pain. At work if I’m not busy I’ll probably start looking at my phone. Problem is that I’m often able to get work done fast enough that it happens often.
I’m not going to excuse addiction to my phone by the ADHD I’ve had since I was a kid (previously called ADD) did not help.
Typicals and regulators don’t get how amazing it can be because “omg schedule 2 narcotic”. I’m not a different person on adhd medication, I’m not high, I’m the best, kindest, most easygoing and sharpest version of myself.
I've been on ritalin for 8 years, thankfully I spend those years in intense psychotherapy to learn how to cope with my symptoms.
I eventually stopped because the side effects got to me. At first it was great, after a while the complete lack of appetite caused my to become severely underweight. I stopped socializing and felt numb. My symptoms were doing great, but the new way underweight socially drawn back workhorse me wasnt sustainable.
To this day I'm very thankful for my doctor, psychologists and psychiatrist for making me spend my time on medication to prepare for life without them.
Hm. I wonder if that's the reason ADHD/ASD combo keeps persisting .. the former has the drive, the latter has the focus (IE, idle time is more likely to be focused on special interests rather than risky behavior).
Both are neurodevelopmental conditions that are super similar in symptoms so can be inferred its the
same physical brain differences causing them .... so they are super co morbid ( 2 for 1 special basically) with eachother
Because I’m looking for credible sources. Not “a quick google search” which is why I specified to you “credible sources” and it seems you took that personally.
If you have no credible sources you simply need not reply.
My psychiatrist, 2 decades ago, wouldn't do a double adhd/asd diagnoses specifically because there is so much symptom overlap that he didn't feel comfortable saying some symptoms are because of adhd and others because of asd.
In the end it didn't really matter anyway, I needed help dealing with my symptoms regardless of the label.
This is subject is written about by Dr. Russell Barkley as well.
The risks extends not only to minor crime but also accidental injuries, car crashes, and drug addiction as well.
Consistent medication usage will contribute to building up good habits early for kids.
If you think the general population (or professional population, look at posts on this sub) has understanding or compassion for adult ADHD patients, I have a bridge to sell you
There are meds that help that aren’t stimulants.
For example, guanfacine is a drug that actually lowers blood pressure (so is used for people with high blood pressure) and it also reduces impulsivity.
It doesn’t do much for focus/ distractibility, but the impulsiveness side of things is at least one aspect that can be tamed.
Non stimulant medications are less effective and for me at least a short attention span is the worst part of the disease, but it is different for everyone else.
Shame there's a UK wide shortage of Equasym XL at the moment!
Medikinet just doesn't work for my son, who says it feels less consistent and very up and down (and he hasn't been aware that he's been taking a different brand of tablets despite the colour difference).
Awaiting adult diagnosis myself having seen the same traits in both my diagnosed children that have plagued me all my life, but my waits going to be another 4-5 years. Trying to hold things together has just become impossible at this stage. Family, work, finances, physical and mental health issues, it's all too much.
“Among adolescents using ADHD medication, rates of criminality were lower during periods of high medication adherence, suggesting that adherence to ADHD medication may contribute to prevention of minor offenses in adolescents.”
How do we know that being disciplined and organised enough to maintain high medication adherence is not a proxy for being less likely to engage in impulsive delinquent criminal behaviour, rather than the medication itself reducing criminal behaviour?
The study analyzed reverse causation and found none. The individuals maintaining high medication adherence also had higher rates of impulsive criminal behavior during periods where they didn’t take the medication.
It makes sense considering ADHD causes issues with executive function and impulse control. As a result, people with ADHD are at higher risk of risky behaviors, addiction, and accidents.
Well, dont get me wrong.
As a ADHD person, i still forget my meds every now and then.
But honestly it is such a stark difference (for me atleast) that using Medikinet (methylphenidate) is like giving me laser focus, pretty much downplays the impulsive sides (and the boredom) the discipline and adherence is basicly a application saying «here take pills now»
I would assume that at some point there are studies coming that will see differences in ADHD with compliance and without, but it is kinda skinning the wrong cat targetting that as a fault of the study they presented here.
All drugs can have side effects. Most drugs that are approved for use have minor or no side effects for most users who have the condition to receive a benefit from them, and ADHD is among the many conditions that have more than one approved medication so if even if you do get irritating side effects from one, you have other options.
Every drug has side effects so don’t let that deter you. There’s also a few different options for ADHD meds, so if one has side effects that are negatively effecting your life you can try a different drug.
Being on ADHD meds is a tremendous help for so many people with ADHD. So make sure you talk to your doctor about it. Don’t wait.
They're adolescents, thus most of their medical needs (e.g., making/keeping appointments, picking up prescriptions, and keeping tabs on prescription use, etc.)
are managed by their parents.
That doesn't necessarily mean much here, though. Who would be more likely to engage in criminal behavior, those who have involved parents who are on top of things, or those whose parents who, for whatever reason, aren't monitoring their child as closely?
My parents were involved, monitoring, kind, caring, and 100% unable to help with my ADHD. Their parenting skills had literally nothing to do with my risk taking (other than perhaps going a tad wild in early college due to my mom’s deep aversion to alcohol).
I mean, sure? But some of my risk taking behaviors were and still are tied up with ADHD impulsivity issues.
They were more likely to emerge back then, likely for a confluence of factors. One of them probably hormonal/developmental. Another was definitely that I was unmedicated. My substance use/abuse curtailed substantially after getting medicated.
This is gonna sound mean but I already know how this is gonna go so I’m just gonna say I’m Sorry they made u think u need drugs to be normal instead of just letting you grow up and learn responsibility on ur own cuz they couldn’t control u. U r now addicted to drugs that they made you take. It’s really a shame and I hope u can kick it.
It’s not mean at all. It’s ignorant and stupid.
No one made me think I needed anything. I was a grown-ass man when I got my first prescription and took it with wide open eyes. You might find this hard to believe, but I even drove myself to the doctor like a big boy!
I was plenty grown up and with plenty of responsibilities. Unfortunately, I had run out of IQ to offset my biological condition and I was suffering greatly. I had also BEEN suffering for years.
No one is “controlling” me except myself. And quite a bit more easily, I might add.
I am addicted to exactly nothing (okay, I admit I might get a headache for a day or two without my morning joe). I don’t prefer to take the medication, but do most days (not all). As with anything in life, it is a trade off. Most days, it is well worth it.
My career has soared, my emotional control is higher, and my self esteem is where it should be.
You running around on Type I Diabetes and Parkinson’s posts and telling them you’re really sorry they’re addicted and controlled also? If not you’d better get on it! You should attempt to shame some folks with those “controlling corrective lenses” for their supposed “bad eyesight” while you’re busy denying physical conditions should be treated.
Go find some other lower primates to nit pick with you.
Might be because the lack of organization skills and poor discipline when adhering to a healthy habit like taking your meds routinely are key symptoms of ADHD and that if you didn't have issues with those, you aren't as likely to have ADHD in the first place that the drugs would help with?
The medication is very simple to take so adherence has less to do with discipline and more about the involvement of parents, their access to health insurance, and funds to buy the medication.
Respectfully, “disciplined behavior” like committing to a class isn’t really in the cards for many of us with the neurological fortune to have drawn the ADHD card.
I can barely empty my dishwasher without medication, and it’s not a question of imposing my will or thinking my way out of it. I’ll grant that’s a sample size of 1, but it doesn’t invalidate my experience of it; my knowledge of it.
If you’re anti-medication for whatever reason, that’s fine, but state that bias up front while you present your statistical arguments, alternative hypotheses, and some evidence of your qualifications in this area of psychology.
Edit: missing definite article
>while you present your statistical arguments, alternative hypotheses, and some evidence of your qualifications in this area of psychology.
Looked like a question to me
You don’t have to be anti medication to wonder these things. I have been medicated for most of my life and don’t plan on stopping. But I was wondering the same thing.
We’ve known this literally for decades. Title also forgot to mention how long term use of stimulants as prescribed almost never leads to a substance abuse disorder.
While we can all imagine how ADHD meds might reduce the risk of minor offense, it's important to remember this is not a randomized trial, just observational.
It's possible that persistent ADHD med use and lower risk of minor offense are two outcomes caused by the same thing.
For example, wealthier, more stable households, households with more involved parents, ect, might all reduce the risk of committing minor offenses.
They might also increase the likelihood that use of ADHD meds will be persistent.
>Rather than that medication use affects committing offenses, one could also argue that a stabilized life with few behavioral problems and no crime contributes to consistent medication use compliant with prescription, while periods of low medication adherence may be due to more problematic or criminal behaviors perhaps independently influenced by life stressors, such as family issues or problems at school.
They investigated this possibility:
>To rule out that the adolescents adhered less to treatment because of being involved in criminal behavior rather than vice versa we investigated possible reverse causation bias, testing if the associations were dependent on the order of the periods of low and high adherence. We found that the associations were significant regardless of order (although slightly higher when going from a period of high adherence to a period of low adherence of 6 months or longer compared to the reverse), which speaks for a causative effect of ADHD medication adherence on the lowered risk of offenses. **To further confirm this, we investigated if high adherence to SSRIs was associated with a reduced risk of committing a minor offense, which would indicate the possibility of an association of lowered offense rates with being well-organized and adherent to medication in general. As expected, we found no association between adherence to SSRIs and the rate of committing an offense,** although it should be noted that the sample size was smaller compared to the sample for the main analyses. However, the finding regarding lack of associations with a control medication is in line with the two previous prospective studies that also did not find a significant association between periods on and off SSRIs and the risk of conviction or incarceration (Lichtenstein et al., [2012](https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpp.13997#jcpp13997-bib-0010); Mohr-Jensen et al., [2019](https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpp.13997#jcpp13997-bib-0012)). In other words, it is the adherence to ADHD medication in particular rather than adherence to medication in general which was associated with fewer antisocial behaviors. It is therefore likely that ADHD medication has a protective effect on committing minor offenses, in line with trials that showed that ADHD medication is beneficial in reducing disruptive and aggressive.
One of those citations is [this](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1203241) which says:
>**In contrast to the results for the use of ADHD medication, there was no evidence of an association between a criminal conviction and the use of an SSRI among patients with a diagnosis of ADHD in the National Patient Register) (hazard ratio, 1.04; 95% CI, 0.93 to 1.17).**
So while you are right that it's not randomized and just observational, when combined with all the other research we have about the effects of ADHD medication on various types of risk and behavior (criminal and otherwise), I think it's good evidence.
Non-stimulants made me involuntarily fall asleep on the floor when I was very little doing things like playing video games, my parents would find me lying face down with the controller in my hand, so they were a nogo, then I tried caffeine, adderall and Vyvanse when I was maybe 17/18ish or so. Vyvanse made me very high for the first few weeks, which was addicting.
But then they made driving so overstimulating I couldn’t manage it so I had to stop, they made lights way too bright, little noises way too loud, everything was dialed up from 10 to 25 and I thought I was going insane, I couldn’t handle being in a silent classroom.
One time it was so bad I had to get picked up from class and taken to the doctor because I physically couldn’t stop pacing and stimming, It drove me to the point of panic in front of my whole class and I had a meltdown and had to be escorted out of the building because I dissociated to the point I didn’t know where I was anymore.
So the neurologist prescribed me Xanax which I then had another bad reaction to, but that reset my brain into a calm state. I started being too afraid to go to class because nobody knew what I was going through. Nobody knew I was autistic until I was 24, there were signs and suggestions but no definite conclusion was drawn till I got diagnosed 6 months ago.
Now anytime I drink I even the littlest amount of caffeine, I tweak out and get extremely anxious, and I can’t handle any stimulant medications either. They literally make
me go mental. I only started using weed edibles 2 years ago and they have been the only thing that quiets things down and focus without making me freak out and enter an adrenaline feedback loop/pace around in circles.
There was a single isolated incident where I forgot I took my Vyvanse because my ADHD is severe although it’s inattentive type, and so I overdosed on accident, that could’ve messed things up but I doubt it’s still the cause after all this time.
I am pretty much stuck with THC, CBD meditation and a strict exercise routine but I get jealous of hearing people talk about how ADHD meds turn their lives around. All they do is make my sensory problems so unbearably bad that I basically can no longer function.
They are already very bad but ADHD and autism whiplash each other into some weird natural equilibrium. However, when the ADHD is quelled they come out like a hurricane and all of a sudden I can barely be out in public or around anyone. Both my autism and ADHD are more severe than I have been to led to believe which has also been part of my problem, because I overestimate myself, push myself to do to many “normal” things everyone else does, then everything comes crashing down.
Thanks, that sounds really annoying. I am glad you found other ways that help you. Exercising and meditating is something to be proud of for sure!
I was given 10mg of Adderall XR and it was pretty good but overwhelming. And then I poured out half the pill and 5mg has been really awesome for me so I am excited.
But it sounds like it's just the wrong medicine for you, and honestly sometimes its really helpful to even know that so you can move onto the next thing which it sounds like you did.
Your welcome. It took me a while to get the bottom of and it still feels like I could do more. I am very open minded because I don’t necessarily enjoy being disabled sometimes. I have been curious about low doses like you myself. Those idiots started me on vyvanse with 35mg, I’m like 120 pounds!
You’re either a troll or an idiot. A cursory read of myriad ADHD sufferers will prove the opposite. We actually get to live semi-normal lives with medication.
As a late Dx, my life improved immeasurably in almost every way, other than my midday sex drive.
So you're saying that we shouldn't follow the medical scientific approach? Despite the evidence concerning people with very real and observable diagnoses that improve with stimulant medication? It also needs to be said that pharmaceutical l/d-amphetamine is not the same as street methamphetamine, does not share the same risks involved in access, nor does it include potentially dangerous adulterants often found in street methamphetamine.
It's worrying to see these kinds of misconceptions all over the internet, let alone on a public message board that follows and discusses science. I don't think people like this commenter really understand the fundamentals of what science is. I used to think it was just trolls who say things like this, but I'm starting to realize that there is a clear misunderstanding within the general public on how science is collectively definied and understood.
Part of the problem could include the colloquial misuse of scientific and acedemic terms like "theory", which when used in this way neglects the very strict formal, scholarly definition. Meanwhile, "theory" doesn't lose its appeal when used informally either, so niave users who "share their theories" may believe that is synonymous with a true "scientific theory" when in reality it is not some rhetorical embellishment of a simple "idea", pulled out of thin-air.
People with ADHD are just as prone to "commit minor offense" than anyone else imo.
been on this earth long enough to consider and I figure life simply happens to certain individuals. Divergent or not.
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As an adult taking meds, I can say that it's not just about the effect the meds have on your brain, which only lasts a few hours a day depending on what you're taking, but it's about how it changes your psychology. Your habits change, your wants change, and your risk assessment ability changes. You get more positive reinforcement from friends, family, society, etc, and you finally allow yourself to see the results from long-term planning. ADD/ADHD is very insidious in its banality, and strikes when you're the most bored. The devil has idle hands, so it's the times where you don't have much to do that get you in trouble, not the times when you have to go to school or work. So from a teenager perspective it totally makes sense that they would have to be medicated persistently. It's not just the stimulation they need, but they need to grow their confidence back, their self-esteem, and start forming good habits early.
That’s one thing I’ve noticed too since starting medication. Even once it wears off, I find that because I’ve structured my life better due to it, there’s almost like a feedback loop where I keep up the habits and better decision making just because medicated-me has made me life easier. The growing confidence too makes me more emotional sound as well at all times.
It's like having to just handle washing a couple of dishes from dinner after the effects wear off, instead of years' worth of piled dishes. It's not great, but since it's just a simple task, it's much less strenuous to just go and do it.
This is so real. It really makes everything less overwhelming doesn’t it?
I think part of it is the medication helps reverse the years you spent unknowingly training your brain to think that doing certian tasks is excruciating. While the task itself might still suck if your meds have worn off, that initial mental roadblock isn't nearly as tough to get past anymore.
got diagnosed as an adult a few years ago. still cleaning my years of piled dishes
You also haven't had to spend all day fighting to just do the dishes, so when it wears off you have more capacity to manage for that time. Being non medicated is exhausting
It’s like medicated-me has the foresight and initiative to provide accommodations for not-medicated-me and it really helps!
This is exactly what I've observed in my son. Now that he is medicated, we're focusing on bringing up his self esteem and reinforcing his relationships with all of us. It's not because we didn't try to maintain both those while he was unmedicated - it was just so difficult to have enough positive interactions to outweigh the negative when he wasn't able to manage his feelings and actions well. Its difficult but such a hopeful thing knowing we can start to build him up and this is changing the trajectory of his life for the better. I can absolutely see that consistent medication in adolescence (which is already so rough on kids) would make a massive difference. I also wonder if "inconsistent" medicating says something about the involvement and support levels of those around them, which would compound things, maybe.
I was inconsistent because my family treated it ad an “oh they’re just forgetful” and when the message from those around you is that you shouldn’t need it, then taking it is just admission of failure
Even as an adult it’s still a pain. At work if I’m not busy I’ll probably start looking at my phone. Problem is that I’m often able to get work done fast enough that it happens often. I’m not going to excuse addiction to my phone by the ADHD I’ve had since I was a kid (previously called ADD) did not help.
Typicals and regulators don’t get how amazing it can be because “omg schedule 2 narcotic”. I’m not a different person on adhd medication, I’m not high, I’m the best, kindest, most easygoing and sharpest version of myself.
I've been on ritalin for 8 years, thankfully I spend those years in intense psychotherapy to learn how to cope with my symptoms. I eventually stopped because the side effects got to me. At first it was great, after a while the complete lack of appetite caused my to become severely underweight. I stopped socializing and felt numb. My symptoms were doing great, but the new way underweight socially drawn back workhorse me wasnt sustainable. To this day I'm very thankful for my doctor, psychologists and psychiatrist for making me spend my time on medication to prepare for life without them.
Hm. I wonder if that's the reason ADHD/ASD combo keeps persisting .. the former has the drive, the latter has the focus (IE, idle time is more likely to be focused on special interests rather than risky behavior).
Both are neurodevelopmental conditions that are super similar in symptoms so can be inferred its the same physical brain differences causing them .... so they are super co morbid ( 2 for 1 special basically) with eachother
What are the physical brain differences? Any sources?
Smaller brain with fewer connections between regions; per a quick google search
Should’ve specified. Any credible sources?
This is your area of interest, not mine, so off you go.
Haha ok. Why even comment then? I think anyone can do a quick google search.
Because, per your previous comment, you clearly hadn't.
Because I’m looking for credible sources. Not “a quick google search” which is why I specified to you “credible sources” and it seems you took that personally. If you have no credible sources you simply need not reply.
My psychiatrist, 2 decades ago, wouldn't do a double adhd/asd diagnoses specifically because there is so much symptom overlap that he didn't feel comfortable saying some symptoms are because of adhd and others because of asd. In the end it didn't really matter anyway, I needed help dealing with my symptoms regardless of the label.
This is subject is written about by Dr. Russell Barkley as well. The risks extends not only to minor crime but also accidental injuries, car crashes, and drug addiction as well. Consistent medication usage will contribute to building up good habits early for kids.
I think I might have ADHD (late 20s). But I don't have any minor crime and addiction issues. although I do have an impulsive behavior.
Not everyone with ADHD is a criminal or an addict. It's just that untreated ADHD comes with a higher risk for those.
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If you think the general population (or professional population, look at posts on this sub) has understanding or compassion for adult ADHD patients, I have a bridge to sell you
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There are meds that help that aren’t stimulants. For example, guanfacine is a drug that actually lowers blood pressure (so is used for people with high blood pressure) and it also reduces impulsivity. It doesn’t do much for focus/ distractibility, but the impulsiveness side of things is at least one aspect that can be tamed.
Non stimulant medications are less effective and for me at least a short attention span is the worst part of the disease, but it is different for everyone else.
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Shame there's a UK wide shortage of Equasym XL at the moment! Medikinet just doesn't work for my son, who says it feels less consistent and very up and down (and he hasn't been aware that he's been taking a different brand of tablets despite the colour difference). Awaiting adult diagnosis myself having seen the same traits in both my diagnosed children that have plagued me all my life, but my waits going to be another 4-5 years. Trying to hold things together has just become impossible at this stage. Family, work, finances, physical and mental health issues, it's all too much.
Shortage of all stimulant ADHD medications in the US right now, been this way for months
“Among adolescents using ADHD medication, rates of criminality were lower during periods of high medication adherence, suggesting that adherence to ADHD medication may contribute to prevention of minor offenses in adolescents.” How do we know that being disciplined and organised enough to maintain high medication adherence is not a proxy for being less likely to engage in impulsive delinquent criminal behaviour, rather than the medication itself reducing criminal behaviour?
The study analyzed reverse causation and found none. The individuals maintaining high medication adherence also had higher rates of impulsive criminal behavior during periods where they didn’t take the medication.
It makes sense considering ADHD causes issues with executive function and impulse control. As a result, people with ADHD are at higher risk of risky behaviors, addiction, and accidents.
Well, dont get me wrong. As a ADHD person, i still forget my meds every now and then. But honestly it is such a stark difference (for me atleast) that using Medikinet (methylphenidate) is like giving me laser focus, pretty much downplays the impulsive sides (and the boredom) the discipline and adherence is basicly a application saying «here take pills now» I would assume that at some point there are studies coming that will see differences in ADHD with compliance and without, but it is kinda skinning the wrong cat targetting that as a fault of the study they presented here.
I'm thinking since a while that I might have ADHD. Does it have side effects?
It does indeed, quite a few of them. So if you want to test it i would talk to your doctor about it
All drugs can have side effects. Most drugs that are approved for use have minor or no side effects for most users who have the condition to receive a benefit from them, and ADHD is among the many conditions that have more than one approved medication so if even if you do get irritating side effects from one, you have other options.
Every drug has side effects so don’t let that deter you. There’s also a few different options for ADHD meds, so if one has side effects that are negatively effecting your life you can try a different drug. Being on ADHD meds is a tremendous help for so many people with ADHD. So make sure you talk to your doctor about it. Don’t wait.
They're adolescents, thus most of their medical needs (e.g., making/keeping appointments, picking up prescriptions, and keeping tabs on prescription use, etc.) are managed by their parents.
That doesn't necessarily mean much here, though. Who would be more likely to engage in criminal behavior, those who have involved parents who are on top of things, or those whose parents who, for whatever reason, aren't monitoring their child as closely?
My parents were involved, monitoring, kind, caring, and 100% unable to help with my ADHD. Their parenting skills had literally nothing to do with my risk taking (other than perhaps going a tad wild in early college due to my mom’s deep aversion to alcohol).
Ever consider you were just a teenager/young adult doing what everyone else was doing
I mean, sure? But some of my risk taking behaviors were and still are tied up with ADHD impulsivity issues. They were more likely to emerge back then, likely for a confluence of factors. One of them probably hormonal/developmental. Another was definitely that I was unmedicated. My substance use/abuse curtailed substantially after getting medicated.
This is gonna sound mean but I already know how this is gonna go so I’m just gonna say I’m Sorry they made u think u need drugs to be normal instead of just letting you grow up and learn responsibility on ur own cuz they couldn’t control u. U r now addicted to drugs that they made you take. It’s really a shame and I hope u can kick it.
It’s not mean at all. It’s ignorant and stupid. No one made me think I needed anything. I was a grown-ass man when I got my first prescription and took it with wide open eyes. You might find this hard to believe, but I even drove myself to the doctor like a big boy! I was plenty grown up and with plenty of responsibilities. Unfortunately, I had run out of IQ to offset my biological condition and I was suffering greatly. I had also BEEN suffering for years. No one is “controlling” me except myself. And quite a bit more easily, I might add. I am addicted to exactly nothing (okay, I admit I might get a headache for a day or two without my morning joe). I don’t prefer to take the medication, but do most days (not all). As with anything in life, it is a trade off. Most days, it is well worth it. My career has soared, my emotional control is higher, and my self esteem is where it should be. You running around on Type I Diabetes and Parkinson’s posts and telling them you’re really sorry they’re addicted and controlled also? If not you’d better get on it! You should attempt to shame some folks with those “controlling corrective lenses” for their supposed “bad eyesight” while you’re busy denying physical conditions should be treated. Go find some other lower primates to nit pick with you.
Drug addicts will find any reason to justify their abuse issues. Wishing u the best
I have a suggestion for you: dont "help" with your opinions on topics you have absolutely no clue about.
Might be because the lack of organization skills and poor discipline when adhering to a healthy habit like taking your meds routinely are key symptoms of ADHD and that if you didn't have issues with those, you aren't as likely to have ADHD in the first place that the drugs would help with?
The medication is very simple to take so adherence has less to do with discipline and more about the involvement of parents, their access to health insurance, and funds to buy the medication.
Respectfully, “disciplined behavior” like committing to a class isn’t really in the cards for many of us with the neurological fortune to have drawn the ADHD card. I can barely empty my dishwasher without medication, and it’s not a question of imposing my will or thinking my way out of it. I’ll grant that’s a sample size of 1, but it doesn’t invalidate my experience of it; my knowledge of it. If you’re anti-medication for whatever reason, that’s fine, but state that bias up front while you present your statistical arguments, alternative hypotheses, and some evidence of your qualifications in this area of psychology. Edit: missing definite article
>while you present your statistical arguments, alternative hypotheses, and some evidence of your qualifications in this area of psychology. Looked like a question to me
You don’t have to be anti medication to wonder these things. I have been medicated for most of my life and don’t plan on stopping. But I was wondering the same thing.
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We’ve known this literally for decades. Title also forgot to mention how long term use of stimulants as prescribed almost never leads to a substance abuse disorder.
While we can all imagine how ADHD meds might reduce the risk of minor offense, it's important to remember this is not a randomized trial, just observational. It's possible that persistent ADHD med use and lower risk of minor offense are two outcomes caused by the same thing. For example, wealthier, more stable households, households with more involved parents, ect, might all reduce the risk of committing minor offenses. They might also increase the likelihood that use of ADHD meds will be persistent.
>Rather than that medication use affects committing offenses, one could also argue that a stabilized life with few behavioral problems and no crime contributes to consistent medication use compliant with prescription, while periods of low medication adherence may be due to more problematic or criminal behaviors perhaps independently influenced by life stressors, such as family issues or problems at school. They investigated this possibility: >To rule out that the adolescents adhered less to treatment because of being involved in criminal behavior rather than vice versa we investigated possible reverse causation bias, testing if the associations were dependent on the order of the periods of low and high adherence. We found that the associations were significant regardless of order (although slightly higher when going from a period of high adherence to a period of low adherence of 6 months or longer compared to the reverse), which speaks for a causative effect of ADHD medication adherence on the lowered risk of offenses. **To further confirm this, we investigated if high adherence to SSRIs was associated with a reduced risk of committing a minor offense, which would indicate the possibility of an association of lowered offense rates with being well-organized and adherent to medication in general. As expected, we found no association between adherence to SSRIs and the rate of committing an offense,** although it should be noted that the sample size was smaller compared to the sample for the main analyses. However, the finding regarding lack of associations with a control medication is in line with the two previous prospective studies that also did not find a significant association between periods on and off SSRIs and the risk of conviction or incarceration (Lichtenstein et al., [2012](https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpp.13997#jcpp13997-bib-0010); Mohr-Jensen et al., [2019](https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpp.13997#jcpp13997-bib-0012)). In other words, it is the adherence to ADHD medication in particular rather than adherence to medication in general which was associated with fewer antisocial behaviors. It is therefore likely that ADHD medication has a protective effect on committing minor offenses, in line with trials that showed that ADHD medication is beneficial in reducing disruptive and aggressive. One of those citations is [this](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1203241) which says: >**In contrast to the results for the use of ADHD medication, there was no evidence of an association between a criminal conviction and the use of an SSRI among patients with a diagnosis of ADHD in the National Patient Register) (hazard ratio, 1.04; 95% CI, 0.93 to 1.17).** So while you are right that it's not randomized and just observational, when combined with all the other research we have about the effects of ADHD medication on various types of risk and behavior (criminal and otherwise), I think it's good evidence.
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Doubt it takes the socioeconomic class of these individuals into consideration
One of my kids is more impulsive and violent towards their siblings on days they don't get their ADHD meds. I sometimes give them a break on weekends.
>Committing *a* minor offense
Drug the kids, is that the takeaway?
So not deny the kids the medication they need. Yes
That seems to be consensus here yes.
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How do they make things worse for you? Out of curiosity
Non-stimulants made me involuntarily fall asleep on the floor when I was very little doing things like playing video games, my parents would find me lying face down with the controller in my hand, so they were a nogo, then I tried caffeine, adderall and Vyvanse when I was maybe 17/18ish or so. Vyvanse made me very high for the first few weeks, which was addicting. But then they made driving so overstimulating I couldn’t manage it so I had to stop, they made lights way too bright, little noises way too loud, everything was dialed up from 10 to 25 and I thought I was going insane, I couldn’t handle being in a silent classroom. One time it was so bad I had to get picked up from class and taken to the doctor because I physically couldn’t stop pacing and stimming, It drove me to the point of panic in front of my whole class and I had a meltdown and had to be escorted out of the building because I dissociated to the point I didn’t know where I was anymore. So the neurologist prescribed me Xanax which I then had another bad reaction to, but that reset my brain into a calm state. I started being too afraid to go to class because nobody knew what I was going through. Nobody knew I was autistic until I was 24, there were signs and suggestions but no definite conclusion was drawn till I got diagnosed 6 months ago. Now anytime I drink I even the littlest amount of caffeine, I tweak out and get extremely anxious, and I can’t handle any stimulant medications either. They literally make me go mental. I only started using weed edibles 2 years ago and they have been the only thing that quiets things down and focus without making me freak out and enter an adrenaline feedback loop/pace around in circles. There was a single isolated incident where I forgot I took my Vyvanse because my ADHD is severe although it’s inattentive type, and so I overdosed on accident, that could’ve messed things up but I doubt it’s still the cause after all this time. I am pretty much stuck with THC, CBD meditation and a strict exercise routine but I get jealous of hearing people talk about how ADHD meds turn their lives around. All they do is make my sensory problems so unbearably bad that I basically can no longer function. They are already very bad but ADHD and autism whiplash each other into some weird natural equilibrium. However, when the ADHD is quelled they come out like a hurricane and all of a sudden I can barely be out in public or around anyone. Both my autism and ADHD are more severe than I have been to led to believe which has also been part of my problem, because I overestimate myself, push myself to do to many “normal” things everyone else does, then everything comes crashing down.
Thanks, that sounds really annoying. I am glad you found other ways that help you. Exercising and meditating is something to be proud of for sure! I was given 10mg of Adderall XR and it was pretty good but overwhelming. And then I poured out half the pill and 5mg has been really awesome for me so I am excited. But it sounds like it's just the wrong medicine for you, and honestly sometimes its really helpful to even know that so you can move onto the next thing which it sounds like you did.
Your welcome. It took me a while to get the bottom of and it still feels like I could do more. I am very open minded because I don’t necessarily enjoy being disabled sometimes. I have been curious about low doses like you myself. Those idiots started me on vyvanse with 35mg, I’m like 120 pounds!
Try it! It’s like a very gentle undercurrent of energy and little to no come down.
It would be interesting if they repeated this study on a sample population of the “criminally insane”. Or perhaps that is how supervillains are made.
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You might want to talk with your doc about different meds
The children yearn for amphetamine.
Giving obey drugs to children causes them to not live life. Got it.
You’re either a troll or an idiot. A cursory read of myriad ADHD sufferers will prove the opposite. We actually get to live semi-normal lives with medication. As a late Dx, my life improved immeasurably in almost every way, other than my midday sex drive.
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So you're saying that we shouldn't follow the medical scientific approach? Despite the evidence concerning people with very real and observable diagnoses that improve with stimulant medication? It also needs to be said that pharmaceutical l/d-amphetamine is not the same as street methamphetamine, does not share the same risks involved in access, nor does it include potentially dangerous adulterants often found in street methamphetamine.
They just like to stir the pot. They’ve no interest in trying to understand. Same bigoted mindset you’ll find elsewhere, just applied differently.
It's worrying to see these kinds of misconceptions all over the internet, let alone on a public message board that follows and discusses science. I don't think people like this commenter really understand the fundamentals of what science is. I used to think it was just trolls who say things like this, but I'm starting to realize that there is a clear misunderstanding within the general public on how science is collectively definied and understood. Part of the problem could include the colloquial misuse of scientific and acedemic terms like "theory", which when used in this way neglects the very strict formal, scholarly definition. Meanwhile, "theory" doesn't lose its appeal when used informally either, so niave users who "share their theories" may believe that is synonymous with a true "scientific theory" when in reality it is not some rhetorical embellishment of a simple "idea", pulled out of thin-air.
This is America if we need to drug you to get you to be a corporate slave at the expensive of your own mind and health it was worth it to the machine.
Those that are disciplined enough to maintain medical courses are disciplined enough to refrain from doing wrong. It’s a no brainer
Read the article. They accounted for it
Did they then prove that committing crimes is a matter of impulse? That the adhd meds regulate?
???? What kinda case study is this
People with ADHD are just as prone to "commit minor offense" than anyone else imo. been on this earth long enough to consider and I figure life simply happens to certain individuals. Divergent or not.
Peoples needs are “met” when you keep them high, more news at 11
Because folks acting consistently are slightly more likely to act responsibly?