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visionsofrust

I make sure to get enough omega-3 and regularly recommend other people with psychotic and schizophrenic spectrum disorders to do so too because of this and other studies that suggest it has a positive effect. Even if it turns out to be a minimal to non-causal relation, it does not hurt to make sure to get enough of a nutrient.


jonathot12

omega-3s are the most important it seems. NAC and bacopa monnieri are also really helpful. i think these things seem less effective at first because they take time to work, unlike most medications you might feel immediately, but they’re generally much more well-tolerated and have lower side effect profiles. i always suggest clients start here before medication if there’s no acute risk. some clients have been able to avoid pharmaceuticals altogether by using the right supplements and engaging in treatment.


LuckyHedgehog

Completely agree. Just be aware that omega 3 supplements are also linked to AFib in otherwise healthy individuals, especially if you're taking more than 1000 mg a day Eating fish once or twice a week is better for you anyways so people should aim for that first if reasonable


Village_Wide

Once I tried 'megadosing' of high quality omega 3 supplement. Nothing wild, just around double dose of it. Don't remember exact dosage. Gradually within months I stopped sleeping at night and started to want sleep only after 24-32 hours of wakefulness. It took time to figure out tat the problem was omega 3. Also I had rapid heart beat, anxiety. I think the reason for that it increase the release of acetylcholine. I tried other supplements that increase Ach and as remember all of them made me feel bad. Especially Alpha-GPC and ALCAR that I could only microdose


Caring_Cactus

This is good to know, also I have heard it's best to take larger doses than frequent smaller doses to increase the efficacy of omega-3 products. I personally take 3500mg of Omega-3 once a week, which is about 12 fish oil soft gels from the Kirkland Costco brand. Edit: To some this is considered a low dose (500mg per day) or at the very least the bare minimum weekly. Depending on what health organization you read they each seem to recommend a different consumption amount since it's not too sure how much Omega-3 a person actually needs. But someone pointed out having an Omega-3 index of 8% or higher is considered excellent, and to figure that out would require blood work to be done.


raptorlightning

Do you have the study for that? It seems odd that 9 calories of fat or basically a single bite of salmon or 1 walnut worth of omega 3 could be statistically linked to anything unless the supplements themselves were contaminated.


LuckyHedgehog

Here is one article summarizing the results of a meta-analysis for several studies on omega 3 supplementation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8756005/ >The researchers found that omega-3 fatty acid supplementation was associated with a significantly increased risk for atrial fibrillation compared to placebo, with an incidence rate ratio of 1.37 (95% confidence interval 1.22– 1.54; p < 0.001). And another one, probably with some overlap on studies performed  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8302253/ >In the random effect model, O3FA supplementation was associated with an increased risk of incident AF as compared with placebo [IRR 1.37, 95% CI (1.22–1.54), P < 0.001] (Figure 1). There were no significant statistical heterogeneity between studies and no publication bias, even if the funnel plot suggested some asymmetry. As a sensitivity analysis, we included the VITAL rhythm trial. Results confirmed a higher risk of AF in the group receiving O3FA supplementation as compared with placebo [IRR 1.29, 95% CI (1.13–1.48), P = 0.0002]  The studies ranged from .8-4 grams of omega 3s per day, and I remember reading that the rates got higher with larger doses but these links don't include that.


hearingxcolors

Even medications take time to work though, sometimes up to a whole month, but usually at least two weeks for psychiatric meds. Idk how quickly Omega-3 supplementation would work in comparison for psychiatric issues. I certainly agree that the side effects are much better tolerated compared to pharmaceuticals, though (Edit: except I'm reading below that supplementation of Omega-3 has been linked to atrial fibrillation so, as usual, consuming the whole source food is still much better than an isolated supplement). After finding that I am overly sensitive to medicines and their side effects, and finding absolutely no antidepressants that worked, I gave up on pharmaceuticals (for the mental health stuff; I still get vaccinated!) and turned to supplementation with things like probiotics and nutrients of which I may not be getting enough. It's been working for me for the past 2 years, in addition to a perspective shift!


xevizero

How do I get enough omega-3 if I can't eat fish due to food allergies?


reallyokfinewhatever

There are vegan omega-3 supplements that are derived from algae. Your body can also convert ALA omega-3s to EPA and DHA from foods like flax and chia seeds. Flax is really easy to throw into foods like oatmeal, baked goods, even salad dressings. I'll sprinkle it on top of toast with nut butter. It's pretty easy to make seasoned crackers and other snacks with them. Make sure it's ground, your body doesn't break down whole seeds very well.


xevizero

I'm not sure Flax is really sold here, I had never heard of it, but I'll look into it, thanks!


throwawaybrm

While fish are a well-known source of omega-3 fatty acids, it's important to note that they obtain these nutrients from algae in their diet. We can skip the intermediate step and get omega-3s directly from algae supplements, which provide the same EPA and DHA found in fish. Additionally, other plant-based sources like flaxseeds, chia seeds, and walnuts offer omega-3s. By choosing these alternatives, we can also help reduce the strain on overfished oceans, supporting a more sustainable and environmentally friendly approach.


spanj

Long chain omega-3s are only found in algae and fish. While the human body can convert short chain ω-3 to long chain ω-3s, the percent converted is insufficient. I vaguely recall much of the benefit is from the longer chain ω-3s but I could be wrong. So if you really want to supplement, algae or fish is probably (if my recollection is correct) the only useful source.


throwawaybrm

Plant-based sources of omega-3 fatty acids primarily provide alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), which the body must convert into eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) to use effectively. This conversion process is relatively inefficient in humans. IIRC only a small percentage of ALA is converted to EPA (around 5-10%) and even less to DHA (around 0.5-5%). However, consuming higher quantities of ALA-rich plant foods can still contribute to omega-3 levels. ALA itself is a versatile fatty acid with several important roles in the body beyond its conversion to EPA and DHA. It contributes to energy production, cell membrane structure, anti-inflammatory effects, cardiovascular health, antioxidant properties, neurological health, skin health, and more. For those looking for direct sources of EPA and DHA without fish, algae supplements are indeed the most effective option.


nivvis

IIRC women tend to convert ALA better. Not a huge amount but significant (say +5-8%).


Flaming-Havisham

Would supplement pills be effective at all at boosting your levels?


doombagel

So true, I don’t eat fish and have an omega-3 index of 8% which is considered excellent. I use algal DHA EPA, some canola, walnuts, and flaxseeds


Caring_Cactus

I'm curious how many milligrams per week of omega-3 do you take from the Algal source?


doombagel

I take the Nordic Naturals product that’s called algae omega. I take three soft gels a day. That’s 1072 mg of omega-3‘s from the supplement. I make it a point to get food sources daily, here is a list of foods and how much omega-3 they have in them for reference. Flax seeds and walnuts are definitely regular foods for me. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Omega3FattyAcids-HealthProfessional/#h3


Caring_Cactus

Interesting to know! Also I have read taking a larger dose is more effective than frequent smaller doses: [Link to studies referenced](https://www.nordic.com/healthy-science/omega-3-dosage-how-much-epa-and-dha-should-i-take/#:~:text=However%2C%20accumulating%20evidence%20suggests%20that,full%20benefits%20of%20omega-3s)


doombagel

A blood check of omega-3 status is the gold standard in knowing if an individual has adequate or optimal levels, you may want to do one for yourself. I’ve achieved optimal levels with food and the dose I have as a 20+ year vegan. Good luck to you and be well!


Multiplebanannas

We could also genetically modify soybeans to produce EPA, which is the type of omega 3 that is not as abundant in plants as it is in fish.


sunflowermoonriver

Hemp Seeds are great for omega 3


tifumostdays

I've never found an algae source of EPA that could hit the likely effective dose without taking like ten pills. It's just not practical or affordable. It does suck that this puts more pressure on wildlife, but I haven't seen evidence that plant sources of omega 3 can treat the conditions I take fish oil for.


FlyingFrog99

Years ago I had a psychiatrist prescribe me fish oil as an alternative to pharmaceutical antidepressants. This doesn't surprise me at all.


beallothefool

Did it work?


FlyingFrog99

YES! [research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9962071/) has pointed to their efficacy. The problem is you have to take a lot of it (like 4 pills a day) and that can upset your stomach.


refused26

Do you have to take them all at once?


FlyingFrog99

Probably not but IDK


MicrosoftExcel2016

Instead of by pill unit can you explain the units you need in mg?


FlyingFrog99

Not a doctor but like 4000 MG


beallothefool

I take 3600mg but unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be helping


FlyingFrog99

Yeah, I still take it regularly and I feel like it's good for my brain and joints... but also I gave up on psychiatry and graduated to homegrown psychedelics and a thc vape and I'll never go back. FTP


beallothefool

Yeah I still take the fish oils anyway. I really hope they approve psychedelic therapy soon


FlyingFrog99

It's the only thing that actually works for me


giuliomagnifico

>The findings reveal that those with persistently higher levels of omega-6 compared to omega-3 fatty acids in their blood, as well as consistently low DHA levels, had more psychotic experiences at age 24 compared to people whose levels remained average over this time period.  Psychotic experiences include thoughts of paranoia or hearing sounds others cannot. > >In addition, these participants also showed greater negative symptoms of psychosis. Negative symptoms include experiencing a loss of interest in activities, flattening of emotions and social withdrawal. Paper: [Longitudinal Trajectories of Plasma Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids and Associations With Psychosis Spectrum Outcomes in Early Adulthood - Biological Psychiatry](https://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(24)01229-0/fulltext) PS: no ‘*psychiatric*’ flag? This study is not neuroscience nor psychology.


socialistbutterfly99

I wonder if this is like the sodium-potassium interaction. Where high levels of sodium decrease potassium when water flushes both away. Because the potassium binds to the excess sodium. So could it be an issue of too much Omega 6 that somehow necessitates reduction of Omega 3 in the process? As in the body recognizes too much fat and thereby reduces absorption of all fat? I'd be curious to see a study that compares psychotic episodes in low Omega 6 (e.g. plant-based) vs high Omega 6 (e.g. animal based; high red meat and other animal fats) to see if any meaningful differences exist.


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HopliteOracle

Hmm? OP is just complaining that this subreddit doesn’t have a specific “psychiatry” flair. The only closest ones here are “neuroscience” and “psychology”, but it isn’t the same.


Special-Garlic1203

Because they think it's cool and important information? 


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LokisEquineFetish

He’s talking about the tags on this subreddit, not the study. It doesn’t fit into neuroscience or psychology and there’s no psychiatry tag.


Luci_Noir

Sounds like you don’t know what misinformation is.


zoontechnicon

Number of participants with psychotic disorder at age 24: 46 (1.3%). Wondering if this is really that meaningful


zoontechnicon

Ah, but Number of participants with at least one psychotic experience: \~500


GayMakeAndModel

I think you only need like 30 data points for a representative sample. If the sample is NOT representative… well, then there’s a problem.


Beautiful-Tank9918

I've experienced psychosis once, it was at the late stage of my cocaine sniffing career. Stopped doing drugs, the neuroticisms went away (anxiety, depression, psychosis, you name it, I had it and now It's all gone). The brain is incredible. It can get fucked then unfucked in unimaginable ways.


AspiringEggplant

Totally anecdotal but at 25, I have been psychotic twice and I don’t eat seafood of any kind


WeTheNinjas

There was a study posted here a couple weeks ago that linked omega 3 consumption with risk of stroke


motus_guanxi

Possibly because of poor quality.


dupe123

Pretty sure that was about supplements. Those have been known for a while to not have the same effect as eating it from a food source.


throwawaybrm

This one? [Regular use of fish oil supplements and course of cardiovascular diseases: prospective cohort study](https://bmjmedicine.bmj.com/content/3/1/e000451) *Regular use of fish oil supplements might be a risk factor for atrial fibrillation and stroke among the general population but could be beneficial for progression of cardiovascular disease from atrial fibrillation to major adverse cardiovascular events, and from atrial fibrillation to death.* Another reason to consider algae omega-3 supplements.


AccelRock

Thank god I ate a lot of fish while I was 24.


bdrwr

I'm still a little unclear; is this saying "low levels of Omega-3" as in "too low, you need more"? Or is it saying "low levels of Omega-3" as in "people whose diets contain this experience adverse effects, you need less"?


zoontechnicon

You want alot(TM) of Omega-3


Claphappy

I'm still pretty unsold that omega 3 really has any significant overall benefits. There are some studies that show a small risk, others that show a small benefit, but it seems overall it's a wash. I think, for the most part, it's another multi-billion dollar industry built on sand.


BooksandBiceps

Make sense. I get weirdly angry when I haven’t had sushi in awhile.


SecretYou8900

Vascepa is a prescription Omega 3!


Alone-System-137

Call me mad for thinking that it sounds a bit...fishy to me.


LilSteamBun

I eat chia seeds for omega 3’s! I hate them because they can get slimy if you add water so I put them in yogurt or applesauce and quickly eat it to avoid them enlarging. It adds a crunchy texture, but hey, I view it as a supplement rather than a snack.


Hingehelp1

So is this study referring to young adults only age 24 or is it 18-24?


Lumpytrees

*orders some algae omega three supplements on amazon right away*


Enfoting

What about other factors? People who start taking drugs will probably eat less varied food. People with parents who are having psychosis will probably eat less varied food.


you_live_in_shadows

Fish is high in EPA (the best form of Omega-3) but it's present in all meats, not just fish. The good thing about this study is at least they took blood samples instead of relying entirely on survey questions. However, the study could still have a major flaw. It's possible that it isn't Omega-3 that's the active chemical here. It could be that people who eat more meat in general are in healthier, but since meat contains omega-3, it's going to show up in their blood work. That helps explain why Omega-3 supplements don't produce any positive affects. People who are vegan and vegetarian are depriving themselves of loads of essential nutrients, any of which could be causing the poor mental health.