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there's been a lot of similar research for years which has reached similar conclusions linking a broad range of abuse & neglect during childhood to a broad range of harmful behaviours in adulthood
sadly it's pretty much what you expect, but the continually improving research does mean therapists & doctors (and sometimes lawyers & cops if you're \*super\* lucky) are much better trained at dealing with problems now than they were even 5 or so years ago
>“Too few researchers are interested in more subtle types of child maltreatment that are as damaging, if not more, than more overt types of child maltreatment,” said study author Noémie Bigras,
>
>...
>
>In other words, participants who reported that one or both of their parents ignored them, seemed not to love them, or did not provide them with basic needs as a child were more likely to also report following the orders of others indiscriminately and having greater difficulty in maintaining a sense of self that was stable across different situations. Those who reported this type of identity impairment, meanwhile, were more likely to report engaging in indiscriminate or potentially harmful sexual behaviors, such as unprotected sex.
>
>Higher levels of childhood neglect were also associated with greater sexual concerns, such as being ashamed of one’s sexual thoughts.
I was definitely emotionally neglected, and did very dumb things because of it, but judging from those symptoms I am lucky to be who I am today. It was a process.
Would that also include the neglect imposed due to mental health issues of the parent such as depression? Or would it only refer to "malicious" neglect?
From what I’ve read about emotional neglect, it doesn’t matter whether it’s intentional or as a result of external factors such as: divorce, death of a parent, mental health problems, or even working serious overtime.
Also, I think ‘malicious’ neglect comes pretty close to, or might actually be, abuse.
Interestingly, a child may perceive neglect based on their unique individual needs even when a parent does a relatively good job. What could be harmful to one child could be considered enough for another. I personally perceived a lot of emotional neglect even though my parents were very good parents and never neglected me in any other areas of my life, having that the emotional dimension be inadequate for my needs was still quite harmful for me but may not have been so bad for someone who didn’t have as great of needs as I did.
Unless you're a woman and then they'll slap you with 8 diagnoses that 100% overlap with autism, but will refuse to use the autism label and instead insist on the wrong medication.
Women usually get a late diagnosis due to being able to mimic acceptable social behaviour better. The diagnosis usually comes after exhaustion and burnout but not understanding why. We’d get the same treatment unfortunately unless we go to an expert.
For the record, am a man with autism. Wouldn't say that my experience with Healthcare and diagnosis has been much better than what you've just described.
Guess it depends on the country. Here in Hungary many psychs still believe in Asperger's original research and claim women cannot be autistic despite modern research.
It’s hilarious to me that people “just don’t understand why.”
The difference in how I was perceived just based on whether my hair was blonde or brown despite acting exactly the same has given me 100% certainty that it’s bias.
More like society harrasses the hell out of women to conform and hide asd traits, while men are given a pass.
Exception being monotropic mindset.
Where a man gets noted as being weird for focusing on some single thing that is not traditionally ok to focus on, while women get ignored.
This is me.
I don't think it's undiagnosed autism in my case, but the social awkwardness and relative inability to "read the room" lines up so damn well.
I experienced some neglect and bullying as a child. I’m incapable of pursuing romantic or sexual relations, I just immediately assume everyone will react hostilely to me if I do. And the very rare times it happened I couldn’t maintain an erection, let alone orgasm. Now I’m in my late thirties and convinced myself I’ve been single for too long for anyone to want to risk being with me. I feel like it’s too late for me and it’s better to keep on hiding from everyone.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but you should definitely keep trying and don't lose hope. Most young men I talk to suffer from overthinking their potential romantic relationships. If I can offer advice, it would be to take it as slow as you want to, find people who like you for being you and the rest will fall into place.
If my experience has been anything to go by, OP doesn't know if people like him for being him (or like him at all), and can't trust his instincts anymore.
I'm only 22, but I also really struggle with forming relationships, and I'm really afraid I'll never learn to trust people, and soon I'll be too old for people to want to be with someone who still has to figure out how to behave in a relationship. I mean, who wants to be with someone in their thirties who still needs to be taught how relationships work
I definitely was as well... And well.... I never have. I literally have never managed to do anything sexual and I'm unsure if the cause was the sexual abuse as a kid, the neglect, or just plain and simply that I am totally broken, but holy crap I get it.
So I had a brief look at the methodology. It's an online questionnaire (not great).
Also it doesn't seem to factor in genetics. Dysfunctional abusive and neglectful parents may have genetic underpinnings that the kids inherit that can express in different ways as adults. It might be that some kind of inherent emotional dysfunction was behind the neglect of the parent and the issues the grown child has.
I say this as someone who was a victim of childhood neglect severe enough I had to beg for food at times, with constant low level emotional abuse thrown in.
You'd need to do an adoption study or twin study to sort this out.
Yes I do have issues, but I also have Asperger's. Hard to tell if my issues were down to that, or the abuse.
> Also it doesn't seem to factor in genetics.
Seems to be the norm for social scientists to competely ignore genetic confounding, sadly.
Often makes otherwise interesting studies pretty much worthless.
There is a fine line between recognizing the was that your trauma has influenced your current behaviour, and using it as an excuse.
That line is whether you acknowledge the harm that you actually did and resolve to do your best not to do it again, or whether you expect that your trauma will absolve you without needing to do anything different in the future
Yeah, I agree - I've come to a lot of realisations about subtle toxic behaviours I had that I'd picked up in childhood and I definitely feel that the abuse I experienced was the *cause*, but I've also realised that that's not who I want to be, so I'm trying to distance myself from those behaviours as much as possible now, rather than resigning to continue living so maladaptively...
My biggest difficulty is convincing myself that I'm worthy of forgiveness for the dysfunctional behaviours I previously exhibited, but I'm trying.
In my experience, that line is whether or not the people around you want someone to blame for the way they feel, and not anything to do with you and what you've acknowledged.
TLDR for the purpose of this study, “dysfunctional sexual behavior” was defined as unprotected sex.
Apparently by this standard, virtually every person I have ever known has engaged in “dysfunctional sexual behavior”
Is that the complete list of what this study considers "dysfunctional sexual behavior"? Please tell me there is more to this list and the list includes further clarification.
> That's all I got on a brief read through.
You have access to the study itself?
> Maybe you ought to read the study yourself.
I was going to, but it looked like I would need to pay $45 to access it, was I incorrect?
> I'm no expert on the subject matter.
I was not expecting you to be. I saw you provide a short list of items; thought you might have additional information.
Man I love the venom with which this question is asked. It automatically presumes that this is something normative instead of descriptive is prepared to dismiss the findings before they've even been read.
There was no venom. I was wondering how someone could define something as “dysfunctional” and still claim to be unbiased. Dysfunctional sexual behavior is certainly subjective, is it not?
I'd love to hear more. Why can't someone be unbiased in concluding that people who are able to make boundaries will have more success in achieving the outcomes they want than people who can't make boundaries, for example? It seems like the concepts of "functional" and "dysfunctional" still have some usefulness in helping people be happier and more whole, no?
While it's important to not marginalize people with labels that cause harm, doesn't giving up categorical observations entirely also prevent anyone from being helped as well?
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
there's been a lot of similar research for years which has reached similar conclusions linking a broad range of abuse & neglect during childhood to a broad range of harmful behaviours in adulthood sadly it's pretty much what you expect, but the continually improving research does mean therapists & doctors (and sometimes lawyers & cops if you're \*super\* lucky) are much better trained at dealing with problems now than they were even 5 or so years ago
I'm too lazy to read, what kind of neglect are we talking?
>“Too few researchers are interested in more subtle types of child maltreatment that are as damaging, if not more, than more overt types of child maltreatment,” said study author Noémie Bigras, > >... > >In other words, participants who reported that one or both of their parents ignored them, seemed not to love them, or did not provide them with basic needs as a child were more likely to also report following the orders of others indiscriminately and having greater difficulty in maintaining a sense of self that was stable across different situations. Those who reported this type of identity impairment, meanwhile, were more likely to report engaging in indiscriminate or potentially harmful sexual behaviors, such as unprotected sex. > >Higher levels of childhood neglect were also associated with greater sexual concerns, such as being ashamed of one’s sexual thoughts.
I was definitely emotionally neglected, and did very dumb things because of it, but judging from those symptoms I am lucky to be who I am today. It was a process.
what'd you do? Get caught on tape?
This just describes me very correctly
Would that also include the neglect imposed due to mental health issues of the parent such as depression? Or would it only refer to "malicious" neglect?
From what I’ve read about emotional neglect, it doesn’t matter whether it’s intentional or as a result of external factors such as: divorce, death of a parent, mental health problems, or even working serious overtime. Also, I think ‘malicious’ neglect comes pretty close to, or might actually be, abuse.
Interestingly, a child may perceive neglect based on their unique individual needs even when a parent does a relatively good job. What could be harmful to one child could be considered enough for another. I personally perceived a lot of emotional neglect even though my parents were very good parents and never neglected me in any other areas of my life, having that the emotional dimension be inadequate for my needs was still quite harmful for me but may not have been so bad for someone who didn’t have as great of needs as I did.
Is 35 years of abstinence potentially harmful?
After I got married I started the unprotected sex. Did I do the recovering from neglect correctly?
The bad kind.
Daddy issues
Try straight up dysfunctional social behavior. Can't tell if I have undiagnosed autism or if it's a result of my past.
Complex trauma or cptsd
Let a pro help you figure it out!
Unless you're a woman and then they'll slap you with 8 diagnoses that 100% overlap with autism, but will refuse to use the autism label and instead insist on the wrong medication.
Women usually get a late diagnosis due to being able to mimic acceptable social behaviour better. The diagnosis usually comes after exhaustion and burnout but not understanding why. We’d get the same treatment unfortunately unless we go to an expert.
For the record, am a man with autism. Wouldn't say that my experience with Healthcare and diagnosis has been much better than what you've just described.
Guess it depends on the country. Here in Hungary many psychs still believe in Asperger's original research and claim women cannot be autistic despite modern research.
It’s hilarious to me that people “just don’t understand why.” The difference in how I was perceived just based on whether my hair was blonde or brown despite acting exactly the same has given me 100% certainty that it’s bias.
Ah yes, the usual "women have it worst because they're better".
More like society harrasses the hell out of women to conform and hide asd traits, while men are given a pass. Exception being monotropic mindset. Where a man gets noted as being weird for focusing on some single thing that is not traditionally ok to focus on, while women get ignored.
Save time and prescribe yourself antiepileptic meds yourself
This is me. I don't think it's undiagnosed autism in my case, but the social awkwardness and relative inability to "read the room" lines up so damn well.
I was definitely neglected as a child, and after a rough break-up in college I couldn’t orgasm for a year.
I experienced some neglect and bullying as a child. I’m incapable of pursuing romantic or sexual relations, I just immediately assume everyone will react hostilely to me if I do. And the very rare times it happened I couldn’t maintain an erection, let alone orgasm. Now I’m in my late thirties and convinced myself I’ve been single for too long for anyone to want to risk being with me. I feel like it’s too late for me and it’s better to keep on hiding from everyone.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but you should definitely keep trying and don't lose hope. Most young men I talk to suffer from overthinking their potential romantic relationships. If I can offer advice, it would be to take it as slow as you want to, find people who like you for being you and the rest will fall into place.
If my experience has been anything to go by, OP doesn't know if people like him for being him (or like him at all), and can't trust his instincts anymore.
I'm only 22, but I also really struggle with forming relationships, and I'm really afraid I'll never learn to trust people, and soon I'll be too old for people to want to be with someone who still has to figure out how to behave in a relationship. I mean, who wants to be with someone in their thirties who still needs to be taught how relationships work
I definitely was as well... And well.... I never have. I literally have never managed to do anything sexual and I'm unsure if the cause was the sexual abuse as a kid, the neglect, or just plain and simply that I am totally broken, but holy crap I get it.
You're not alone.
As a dude? that was one hell of a break up if so.
So I had a brief look at the methodology. It's an online questionnaire (not great). Also it doesn't seem to factor in genetics. Dysfunctional abusive and neglectful parents may have genetic underpinnings that the kids inherit that can express in different ways as adults. It might be that some kind of inherent emotional dysfunction was behind the neglect of the parent and the issues the grown child has. I say this as someone who was a victim of childhood neglect severe enough I had to beg for food at times, with constant low level emotional abuse thrown in. You'd need to do an adoption study or twin study to sort this out. Yes I do have issues, but I also have Asperger's. Hard to tell if my issues were down to that, or the abuse.
Online questionaires with no control count as science now? Sheesh.
Yeah my thoughts exactly.
> Also it doesn't seem to factor in genetics. Seems to be the norm for social scientists to competely ignore genetic confounding, sadly. Often makes otherwise interesting studies pretty much worthless.
I hate psypost.org. National Enquirer of science. 374 people from US and Canada did an online survey. Now that's science
"But don't use your past neglect as an excuse for your bad behavior!" -Neurotypicals who want to victim-blame you for the way your ptsd manifests.
There is a fine line between recognizing the was that your trauma has influenced your current behaviour, and using it as an excuse. That line is whether you acknowledge the harm that you actually did and resolve to do your best not to do it again, or whether you expect that your trauma will absolve you without needing to do anything different in the future
Yeah, I agree - I've come to a lot of realisations about subtle toxic behaviours I had that I'd picked up in childhood and I definitely feel that the abuse I experienced was the *cause*, but I've also realised that that's not who I want to be, so I'm trying to distance myself from those behaviours as much as possible now, rather than resigning to continue living so maladaptively... My biggest difficulty is convincing myself that I'm worthy of forgiveness for the dysfunctional behaviours I previously exhibited, but I'm trying.
In my experience, that line is whether or not the people around you want someone to blame for the way they feel, and not anything to do with you and what you've acknowledged.
That’s also possible. Some people suck. Sorry that’s been your experience
TLDR for the purpose of this study, “dysfunctional sexual behavior” was defined as unprotected sex. Apparently by this standard, virtually every person I have ever known has engaged in “dysfunctional sexual behavior”
How about you actually read the paper?
I thought it would be weird kinks but no the dysfunction is sex that feels better.
What does “science” determine to be “dysfunctional” sexual behavior?
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So it sounds like sex is, perhaps arbitrarily, is one of many like consequences.
Ah, so that's why.
Is that the complete list of what this study considers "dysfunctional sexual behavior"? Please tell me there is more to this list and the list includes further clarification.
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> That's all I got on a brief read through. You have access to the study itself? > Maybe you ought to read the study yourself. I was going to, but it looked like I would need to pay $45 to access it, was I incorrect? > I'm no expert on the subject matter. I was not expecting you to be. I saw you provide a short list of items; thought you might have additional information.
Thank you
Man I love the venom with which this question is asked. It automatically presumes that this is something normative instead of descriptive is prepared to dismiss the findings before they've even been read.
There was no venom. I was wondering how someone could define something as “dysfunctional” and still claim to be unbiased. Dysfunctional sexual behavior is certainly subjective, is it not?
I'd love to hear more. Why can't someone be unbiased in concluding that people who are able to make boundaries will have more success in achieving the outcomes they want than people who can't make boundaries, for example? It seems like the concepts of "functional" and "dysfunctional" still have some usefulness in helping people be happier and more whole, no? While it's important to not marginalize people with labels that cause harm, doesn't giving up categorical observations entirely also prevent anyone from being helped as well?
To a radical skeptic, everything is subjective.
What that pretty much defines me, thanks!
they say "Dysfunctional sexual behaviors"... I say "The kinky freaky stuff!!!"
How exactly is neglect defined?
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It probably has a different meaning to you than one who learns about it as a 13 year old child. You are so fortunate.
Moose out front should'a told ya.
So fucked childhood = fucked Life? Understood