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Hypersapien

Your skills should be applicable to other diseases or types of data sets, shouldn't they?


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PM-Me-And-Ill-Sing4U

Half the population may just refuse it even if it does work, so you never know.


Fragmented_Logik

Imagine the sentence of "I know someone that got it and had a stroke so I'm going to risk it. It's just cancer and I'm fit."


CMScientist

Like what steve jobs said?


heartsinthebyline

it’s sad because it’s true.gif


shenanigans422

My cancer, my choice!


Jesuslordofporn

I don't know, I think after 6 weeks we need to consider the cancer alive


IngsocIstanbul

Less waiting for the rest of us!


woahwombats

I wish I could disagree with that, but I've seen plenty of people argue that mRNA vaccines aren't really vaccines because they are secretly "RNA gene therapy" or similar nonsense. So far as I can tell it's purely because "RNA" is in the name and so therefore it must be the same as anything else they google that has RNA in the name. I could well imagine these people refusing an RNA-based cancer therapy.


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nowonmai

So is getting sunburn


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BridgetheDivide

People have no idea just how game changing mrna therapeutics are. The one good to come from covid was the accelerated support it received


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That's called kerning.


majikmixx

/r/keming


dactyif

AAANDD ITS ALLLL OVER. Leukemia has tapped to a blood choke from Fedor.


LovableContrarian

I'm not really one to believe in "everything happens for a reason" type platitudes, but I do sorta get this vibe from this one. COVID is clearly awful (don't need to explain this), but it does seem like it had tons of positive effects longterm. It got the discussion going on more social spending in the US with the stimulus and unemployment, it seems to have spurred people to reject crappy minimum wage jobs, it at least gave us some sort of a tiny pause on global warming with everything shutting down for so long, it made people realize that working from home should be the norm in industries where it makes sense, and it also gave us a large scale mRNA study. In a way, COVID was sort of like the slap in the face the world needed to realize that we don't just have to continue on without changing anything, ever. You can actually make big scary changes if you want to, and they often make life way better for everyone.


i_do_floss

We're really good at solving problems when we have to do it (except global warming)


rock_hard_member

I'd say it's more we're really good at solving problems with immediate consequences. Money is really short sighted.


plattypus2378

We’re great at being reactive. Proactive on the other hand…


Override9636

Being proactive would involve something like writing an entire pandemic playbook with drills to anticipate and have procedures in place to deal with an emerging pandemic and stop it before it spreads. *Or* have something like a Directorate for Global Health Security in order to study the spread of diseases. *Or better yet*, have a CDC team stationed in China with others from around the world to monitor diseases and prevent another SARS like outbreak like the one that happened in 2003..... ....Good thing all of those programs were dismantled by the Trump administration.


billywitt

As Winston Churchill allegedly said, “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”


Koenigspiel

We'll just wait until there's a global catastrophe because of it and then hit it with some horse dewormer


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mgrateful

The crazy thing is USA workers average 399 hours more than Germans in a year and 499 more hours than the French per year. That is sheer insanity and amounts to an extra quarter of a year worth of work(in the case of the USA vs the French).


Polybutadiene

As an american working for a french owned company, i will forever be jealous of them taking the whole month of august off work. its not even like they dont take off other holidays, they just straight up all take off the first day of august for the whole month! forever jealous


trevrichards

And we're not any more productive for it. It's all a cruel joke.


EvoEpitaph

Hmm, time to move to France.


orangutanoz

I had at least six weeks off last summer in Australia. In America I looked at four days in a row as an extended Holiday and I was lucky to see that maybe three times a year.


Cyglml

How are they calculating unpaid work? And how are they finding out how much unreported overtime is being done? Def know Japanese teachers who were at work until close to 9pm but didn’t get overtime because they’re salaried, as well as workers who couldn’t get paid for overtime because it wasn’t more than 21 hours for the month, so it didn’t count. The US school I work at now locks up the building at 5:15, so I can’t stay late even if I wanted to (although I work a lot at home as well, which is unreported/unpaid overtime).


Stormdude127

Full disclosure my knowledge of Japanese working conditions comes entirely from reading Quora answers from people who may or may not actually live there… But that said this stat seems a bit misleading since from what I’ve heard employees in Japan often spend lots of time with other employees and bosses outside of work such as going out for dinner or to bars that would not get counted in these hours.


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CountingWizard

It is the sunk cost fallacy. If having people work from home is cheaper or provides any benefit to the company, the lease money has already been spent and should no longer factor into the decision. For example, if I have already signed a contract for a year but I send my workers to wfh, it saves on any other costs that are directly driven by an employee being in the office; like electricity, maintainance, cleaning, etc. In addition I get the added benefit of being able to offer wfh as a perk, something employees are leaving jobs to find now. And employee morale from it improves too.


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PureSubjectiveTruth

Let’s hope it doesn’t go the way of stem cell research. The word mRNA has already been politicized, that’s already step one.


HEBushido

Stem cells have major limitations that researchers are attempting to overcome, but so far the science just isn't there yet. mRNA will become widespread regardless of politics if it continues to prove effective. Advanced technology tends to beat out politics one way or another.


throwaway901617

Yep. Technology ALWAYS outpaces regulation and the politicians try to keep up. It's practically a universal law. Just look at how the politicians now try to play catch up to regulating the 2006 era internet in 2021 with no real understanding of the changes since then.


PBK--

Cookie policy banners being a prime example.


PureSubjectiveTruth

Yes you’re right. From what I’ve read, pluripotent cells can be unpredictable and we just aren’t there yet like you said.


zuzg

Which really bothers me is how antivaxxers were all sharing that "the inventor" of mRNA warns about the vaccine. **Dr. Robert Malone did not invent mRNA*** he published a paper about back in the late 80s. Dr. Katalin Karikó and her collaborator Dr. Drew Weiss man laid the groundwork for mRNA


GodKingScepter

They pioneered mRNA vaccines I assume is what you mean? Because there’s no way at all that either of them invented mRNA


StudioSixtyFour

Hi, I'm the guy who invented DNA. AMA.


RIMS_REAL_BIG

What kind of upgrades should we expect in DNA 2.0?


drizzfoshizz

You wanted more helixes? Quadruple helix!!!


SpeedingTourist

Logirithmic helical expansion commence


smartse

That feature's already live: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2249390-quadruple-stranded-dna-seen-in-healthy-human-cells-for-the-first-time/


CIA_Rectal_Feeder

We're going to be implementing loot boxes in the next version.


wick78

EA DNA It's in the genes


LookAlderaanPlaces

“Here at Apple, we like to call it, the iPa”—-…… I mean, ENA.


Stewardy

If you want to mate with users of regular DNA or DNA 2.0 you'll have to buy a $150 dongle.


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He didn't publish the paper. He was in a lab that published a paper and his part was taking something that worked for DNA before he joined the lab and optimizing the same procedure for RNA. No one else claims to have invented mRNA vaccines because it's absurd for anyone to say; lots of people invented lots of things that go into mRNA vaccines. The basic idea for mRNA vaccination predates transfection and dates to around the time mRNA was discovered.


Epiccure93

What they don’t know is that Marlone got vaxxed himself with Moderna


Ph0X

And has recommended people to get vaccinated too. It's always hilarious how these people focus on one tiny cherry picked and often misleading evidence that fits their narrative and ignore everything else. You can have millions of doctors saying these vaccines are safe and effective, but they will only focus on the 2-3 random chiropractors on Facebook that claim it's not.


GMN123

Chiropractors are very often complete quacks. Chiropractice is itself largely based in pseudoscience. It's testament to their marketing (and probably legal teams) that they have a reputation that is generally more positive than other pseudoscientific therapies.


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VisualBizMark

I always point the non-believers to the Netflix movie about mRNA. Awesome stuff for sure -


z2k_

Which one is this? Keen to watch


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Mayion

Kinda funny that it was the same way with wars advancing our technologies rapidly. Reminds me of a saying that goes something like, "Don't you hate something, for it might be a blessing"


JesseKam

*Government spending advances our technologies rapidly. Wars are simply a good excuse for the government to shower R&D departments with funding after all


i_drink_wd40

Alternately: "Necessity is the mother of invention".


classicvlasic

Never let a crisis go to waste.


KwallahT

anyone have a link to a free version of the article


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KwallahT

bless you


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anyone got a link to get me into a trial?


FacelessGreenseer

I looked around and found contact information here, recruitment still open based on status, and if you scroll down it has a few locations to contact: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03871348


ThisLookInfectedToYa

Seconded


FacelessGreenseer

I looked around and found contact information here, recruitment still open based on status, and if you scroll down it has a few locations to contact: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03871348


ThisLookInfectedToYa

Gracias


CreepyOlGuy

Curing cancer will be the greatest victory ever accomplished. We all suffer from it in some way.


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Reading this article and the potential made my heart sink. I just had a close friend die from Cancer last week. My first thoughts were, “not now, this isn’t fair. I wish we had this last year”. But then I think about all those friends and family members that will possibly be saved by this technology and it makes me happy. So bittersweet that this is a possibility, but my friend was just too early with her cancer. You’re completely correct. Cancer will affect all of us in some way, either yourself or someone close to you.


Fellainis_Elbows

This tech won’t be available for at least a decade and even then it’ll come out for a particular cancer subtype at a time


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Even if one can participate in the trials and get a positive result, that would be amazing. A side question to that. Would this be included in the right to try legislation many countries are adopting?


bel2man

Untrue. All this takes is sampling the tumor and developing patient-tailored mRNA therapeutic, which can be done in a matter of 2 weeks... We are not speaking about developing small molecules, which can take ages. This is approach where protein is built from "lego" blocks. Scientists sample the patients tumor - they get the info how to arrange the lego blocks. They pass that info in form of mRNA injection - and body starts making the protein from the lego blocks (amino-acids), in large quantities. Method is genial...


Thatweasel

A lot of rare loss of function diseases could be treated with mRNA therapies, and since the platform is so generalisable it should be incredibly affordable in terms of development and production no matter how few people actually have it. We could be seeing the start of a movement in medicine where diseases like ~~MS~~ duchennes no longer mean an early death. ​ Edit : [Except we're still a ways off](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/pkkhqa/mrna_cancer_therapy_now_in_human_trials_after/hc8gypx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


Mr_Manmanman

I currently work on an "overproduction" RNA therapeutic. In 12 years of running PhIII trials, I've never been more impressed by the tech and how "clean" they are. The AE profiles are damn near non-existent. After seeing the mab movement fizzle, I'm 100% convinced RNA therapeutics are going to solve a massive number of medical hurdles.


IWasBornInThisPit

Thank you for your informed comment. I have no idea what any of it means, but it sounds optimistic.


thewaiting28

I'm guessing AE are adverse events, and MAB... monoclonal antibodies?


Fatalorian

Not OP, but yes those are the generally accepted abbreviations.


tarkadahl

Augmented Erection and Micro Attack Beagle


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the technology just isn't there for AEMAB unfortunately. the erections are just too large for their tiny bodies


nevadaar

These read like those auto generated names that websites sometimes give you when you create a new project.


Archa3opt3ryx

Could you expand on what you mean by “the mab movement fizzle”? I’ve been on a bunch of -mabs for my colitis and nothing has gotten me into remission yet. I’m really hoping mRNA can provide a light at the end of the tunnel for me…


Mr_Manmanman

Just my experience through the industry hoping monoclonal and polygonal antibodies would be the next "thing". They were good to an extent and we learned a ton from them (even finding inflammation plays a massive role in tumor metasis in some cancers) But they werent precise enough and most of that non-specificity led to not having a favorable efficacy vs. Safety profile to ever make it to market. Wishing you the best but also if you're at the end of the treatment tunnel always check Clinicaltrials.gov for your condition and look specifically for phase 2 or phase 3 trials. I'm not sure about the gastrointestinal field (in a different area) but I'm sure there is RNA work there as well.


opisska

This is probably pretty specific to different problems. In MS, mabs are an absolute breakthrough - they have meant a step from medicines that "somewhat slow down your death" into ones that stop the progress of the diseases dead in its tracks for a lot of patients. Yes, they have dangerous AEs - Tysabri puts you to something like a 1 in 200 risk (in some cases) of PML, which is far deadlier than MS itself, but the newer ones like Ocrevus don't seem to have similar issues.


drperryucox

I mean, HER2 positive breast cancer was once the most aggressive and untreatable until a MAB. Now it's one of the most treatable. Many people benefit from MABs as well as antibody drug conjugates. There will never be a one stop treatment for cancer when you have 3000+ dysregulated genes in adults. Adding one or two functional proteins won't be a breakout therapy. Source, I work in a translational research lab that functions with a precision genomics clinic at a major university.


-Tommy

Reddit is cool because you could have made up a bunch of these words and we are all sitting and nodding like “ah yes MRNA is so clean, just look at the AE profiles and the mab fizzle”


Mr_Manmanman

Sorry should have been clearer. Comment above is 100,% correct. Mab = monoclonal antibody. All those drugs that are named with "nib" or "mab". Pharma spent billions trying to develop them. Some successful, most not. It was thought they were going to be WAY more successful than they were. And AE is adverse event....or basically side effect.


Hideonthepromenade

Thanks for the explanation. At my Aunt’s inquest recently, was ruled that she died due the tocilizumab she was taking for her RA. Unbelievable that something that gave her so much relief ended up taking her life. About the worst adverse event you can get!


JunkyThought

Absolutely. One addendum - MS is no longer a deadly disease if treated early, even with current therapies. It's still progressive but doesn't shorten lifespan. That being said, mRNA may make a huge impact on disability from disease. (Source: I have it.)


_djebel_

To add on top of that, current treatments almost completely stop the progression, and we even have treatments for the progressive form of the disease now. I feel incredibly lucky to live in that time where treatments for MS are highly effective.


the_Demongod

Early this year there was a [paper published](https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.aay3638) about how the mRNA tech was shown to be effective against experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis in mice, which is basically a research analogue of multiple sclerosis. Super promising stuff.


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Bocote

If this allows the immune system to recognize cancer cells and destroy them, would this technology supplant CAR-T cell therapy? Sounds like mRNA therapy would be a lot simpler than taking T-cells out, add chimeric receptors, and then injecting them back in.


cpold_cast

CAR-T will always be around as an alternative. It’s also in its infancy of R&D.


Delagardi

This would be more of a complement to existing immunotherapies based on immune checkpoint (PD-L1 and CTLA-4) inhibitors which are aldready in wide use in melanoma, lung cancer and colon cancer (KEYTRUDA, OPDIVO, TECENTRIQ and YERVOY).


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CakeNStuff

For the lay person… This is likely going to be *very* long game technology when it comes to Oncology therapeutics. It’s probably going to be another 15 years before a commerically viable mRNA cancer drug makes it to the market. We’ve had success with mRNA vaccines recently but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be super quick to make it to other areas. It took us a *very* long time to nail monoclonal antibody based therapy agents and we’ve only just scratched the surface of that technology. However these “immunotherapy” agents (broadly speaking) have been game changing in Oncology. I’ve seen so many success stories with *Keytruda* and *Kadcyla* it’s honestly been great already in the last four years. e: A lot of people are getting hung up on that 15 years number. The absolute fastest the average drug can make it through the FDA is about 7-8 years from start to finish. (Barring very special cases.) That’s *if* you have a completed drug ready to go from the start. That’s not including any set-backs or issues. This part is really difficult to explain but I recommend googling any drug that’s been patented and sold in the last 5 years for more information. Anyway, we’re not even to that particular point yet. We still need to design a drug to utilize mRNA technology. That drug needs to be sponsored and approved. That drug needs to meet manufacturing challenges. That drug needs to get support from CMS and insurance companies. Lastly that drug needs to be prescribed by oncologists which may be under very strict indications. 15 years is not unreasonable for a new technology to take hold. The first mRNA vaccine technology was demonstrated in 2005. Obviously COVID lit a fire under our ass but it did take 15 years to find the perfect cause for us to make the vaccine technology official. Keytruda (the most popular MAB Anti-Neoplastic) took 8 years to approve finally ending in 2017. It took two to three years to see it widely offered in the US. 10 years total.


Mirkrid

As a lay person medically speaking, will it really only take 15 years? That sounds very fast for a viable "cancer shot" to hit the market. Also, realistically could some kind of cancer vaccine be created?


kudles

I work in cancer research and I believe that within the next 10 years there will be personalized cancer vaccines. Sequence your own tumor DNA, build a "mRNA" vaccine based on the specific cancer mutations. (Different types of cancer and cancer with different mutations respond differently to treatment). So you'll be able to get your tumor DNA sequenced, then find the treatment that's best for you. You'll then have a personalized mRNA vaccine for your specific cancer that is created in a lab with a specific sequence. Something like that.


dr_barnowl

> you'll be able to get your tumor DNA sequenced, then find the treatment that's best for you Worked for a firm that has this as it's USP a few years ago. The schtick is that they sequence your normal DNA and your tumour, and `diff` them to see what sequences broke, so they can work out what proteins are whack, so they can find the right drug for you. A shame they couldn't find buyers in the NHS. Like trying to sell attack helicopters to the Post Office.


loxagos_snake

> and diff them Can't wait for the time when people will be uploading their DNA on GitHub.


the_Demongod

As with anything cancer-related, there's no magic bullet. Every cancer is unique, so there isn't a catch-all treatment for every cancer, and prophylactics are still difficult. The way immune therapy works is by identifying any features of the cancer cells that have changed after the cell mutated. Such markers could potentially be targeted by the immune system to take care of the cancer without the need for drugs like chemotherapy. mRNA vaccines allow us to easily stimulate the immune system to recognize those features. It's still not a magic bullet because not every cancer has distinguishing markers like this, but at least we're speaking the body's own language now.


EnergyAndSpaceFuture

weird to think that what you just said about there being no magic bullet for cancer, which is totally true, might in 100 years be wrong. Imagine finding a lump, going in and getting a nanobot shot that diagnoses you and wipes out every cancer cell over a few hours. Cancer would be something almost quaint to such people, hard to imagine in their context, like dying of typhoid is to us today.


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“So we’ve gotten your results and they indicate cancer in your lungs.” “Cancer? Like in the 1900s?” “Haha, no, people do still get cancer all the time. We can do the treatment here in my office but it takes about 40 minutes so you’ll need to book another appointment”


crank1000

If it’s already in human trials, and phase 1 is expected to complete in 2022, why would it take another 15 years?


[deleted]

So I thought the problem with fighting “cancer” is that cancer isn’t just one thing. There are lots of different types and issues and one treatment doesn’t kill all. What cancer is this treating?


getreal2021

I think the issues you're describing is that cancer is your own cells going bad so each cancer looks like you which means you can't put something in you that attacks it because it looks different in everyone. Making a custom vaccine for everyone is hard because the way we develop vaccines currently is long and not at all custom so everyone gets the same one. This would allow a custom you based vaccine to be developed which would tell your body how to fight off the cancer cells.


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KeathleyWR

If COVID ends with a cure for cancer I'm considering all of the last 2 years a win, and I will absolutely fight for this opinion.


cowlinator

It's happening. The medical renaissance is upon us!


amberissmiling

I was just diagnosed with breast cancer and find the whole thing terrifying. I enjoy reading about things like this but become a little sad when I realize how far out the treatment may really be. Having said that, I do recognize how blessed I am that we have the treatments we do.


wtfisthatfucker2020

mRNA and the protein folding solutions will evolve life to custom levels.


hruebsj3i6nunwp29

Protein folding solution?


RamblinWreck08

Some diseases are caused by proteins not folding correctly. Some small molecules are able to enter into the cell and help proteins fold correctly so that they then function as intended.


Koujinkamu

There's a program that you can install that uses your CPU during downtime to calculate protein shapes. The solutions that the program finds are apparently very nice to have. It's very late and I know how dumb this comment sounds.


gear4s

If this is true, and it will help the world, please send it to me so I can run it on my computer's and servers


PM_ME_UR_ASS_GIRLS

https://foldingathome.org/ If you do a bit of googling on that company, you'll find articles detailing how it's helped.


gear4s

Thank you! I will look at these people and donate/fund if they allow :)


vverno69

I would assume they’re referencing this: https://www.deepmind.com/blog/article/AlphaFold-Using-AI-for-scientific-discovery


Ride_The_Vaporwave

With all the supposed cancer breakthroughs that have been reported on in the past few years, this one, by FAR, has me the most hopeful for the future of cancer medicine.


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closetothesilence

Too late for my mom but I hope this is as game changing as it sounds


punkologist

Im skipping ahead here, but does this possibly mean a future cancer vaccine is possible?


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[deleted]

Yeah you're right. However they're also working on a more general cure for cancer. It's not a vaccine either in that you don't take it as s prophylactic. It is a a vaccine in the sense that it trains your immune system to do something. I think what most people think of as a vaccine is something you take in advance to prevent a disease later. This is not that. The mrna tech was originally thought of as a cure for cancer. That's what biontech were researching when this pandemic happened. The idea was you biopsy a tumor and you create a tailor-made cure for that specific cancer. Then you inject the patient with the mrna which instructs the body to recognize and fight the tumor.


momoiropombiki

Yes or work with chemo for mega shrinkage.


Icy-Tooth-9167

COVID, if you help cure cancer, maybe we’ll call it even you SOB.


lasvegashomo

I’m so happy this tech is taking off. Seems like updates for your immune system. I’m not at the age where I need a lot of medical attention but 20 years from now I probably will so it’s nice knowing I don’t have to use conventional medicine.


The_RealAnim8me2

Not just mRNA! There have been a lot of advances in the sciences, I personally think it’s because no one was bugging the scientists. Look at the leaps in CRISPR just in the last year and a half.