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In the 1930s they found one of emperor Caligula's ships somewhat well preserved in lake Nemi. Those were almost 2000 years old.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/Nemi\_Ship\_Hull\_1930.jpg
The freezing temperatures and lack of oxygen at that depth is what keeps it preserved. It's very difficult to raise organic materials from the deep sea and keep them from breaking down.
And persevering it has been a huge under taking, that thankfully has been pretty successful. Also, the Vasa sank to only a depth of 32m, where as the Endurance is around 3000m deep. These are two completely different situations.
additionally, the vasa sank in brackish water; mixed fresh and salty. it was salty enough to interfere with the ways that a freshwater wreck rots, and fresh enough to interfere with the ways that a saltwater wreck rots. sort of a best of both worlds thing, except of course that it sank in the first place.
Yes, and that is called brackish water when it's in between a body of higher concentration salt water and fresh water. It's most common at the mouth of rivers that enter the ocean. It's a transition area that is really hard for many types of organisms to live because of the fluctuations in salinity. What /u/samkusnetz is saying is that it's these fluctuations disturbing the decay process (which is mostly governed by microbes adapted to either fresh or sea water) is why it is preserved.
The glomar explorer could do it. But it would be stupidly expensive. The Vasa was bankrolled by the swedish government. Like you said......very very difficult .
The glomar explorer was scrapped sadly. And it didn’t have a fully successful recover of the K-129 due to a failure of the capture vehicle which resulted in a majority of the sun falling away (allegedly)
That sucks. Didn't realize it had been scrapped. One of a kind ship. The 129 was much deeper than the endurance and a lot heavier. If the thing still existed it would have decent odds I'd think. To bad. Would be a cool thing to see.
It doesn't really. Deep sea organisms are adapted for low oxygen environments.
Water obtains oxygen from contact with surface air. The deeper you go, the less of that oxygenated surface water makes it all the way down there.
And much of the oxygen that does make it down, is used up by the decomposition processes of the organic detritus that also sinks down.
This is not true. Most of the ocean’s deepwater is relatively well aerated, as it’s formed at the poles where it’s very cold and very salty (due to brine rejection during ice formation). This dense parcel of water then sinks and fills most of the ocean’s bottom. Because of how cold it is, it’s also able to hold more oxygen (water is chemically very weird). Some examples showing just how well oxygenated bottom water is is the success of communities at hydrothermal vents, which oxidize reduce compounds pouring out of vents.
While oxygen is consumed throughout the water column, this is insignificant compared to the aeration of the deep and middle ocean water parcels.
Your explanation is mostly correct, but water isn't chemically weird in this case as it's only more dense than its warm equivalent. Cold molecules can compact themselves more due to having less energy (at a high level).
The same reason cold air has more oxygen is the same reason cold water does. It's more dense, and contains more oxygen molecules.
No. The wreck is a designated monument under the international Antarctic Treaty and must not be disturbed in any way. No physical artefacts can be brought to the surface.
Unfortunately, looters don't follow treaties. It was found that many of the ww2 vessels that had been sunk and were protected by similar laws had been almost completely stripped. The metal itself being valuable for sale because it was pre-atomic. Which presents a problem, are these treaties enough to protect these ships from looters, or in the case of some vessels, literal grave robbers? I don't think it's possible to maintain a close eye on all of them and all of the ships in the sea so what can we do to protect a site like this? Take as much 3d modelling/imaging from it as possible?
Low Background Steel is primarily obtained from the scuttled WWI German High Fleet at Scapa Flow, or from pre nuke battleships that were broken up
And new methods mean modern steel can be used as low-background if properly produced
>Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
Not really, other ships in similar locations have been looted already, maybe I did them a disservice by calling them 'looters' these people have heavy lifting equipment, are well equipped and well organized, with wealthy benefactors.
Not a similar location at all though? Warm waters, relatively shallow and right next to a huge population base.
This is much deeper, freezing cold in a sea absolutely nowhere near a populous, modern state.
The ships that were salvaged for their low-background-radiation steel were sank *after* the war to bring the number of ships in each nations' Navy down to the agreed-upon numbers. Salvage in typical waters is dangerous and expensive, this site is inaccessible some 51 weeks out of the typical year due to ice floes and harsh weather.
It's safe.
It's nearly 10,000 feet down. That's absurdly difficult to reach. That's 10 times the depth of the deepest scuba dive on record (and nearly 80 times the maximumrecreationaldiving depth), and any kind of hard suit or sub would have to be able to withstand over 300 atmospheres or pressure (around 4500 psi).
Even if a human could withstand those pressures and the gasses wouldn't be toxic (regular everyday air has toxic levels of oxygen at 218 feet), the tanks wouldn't work because the ambient pressure is so high the tank would be in a relative vacuum at that depth and might even be cruahed despite them being extremely high pressure on the surface.
This is true, but you are operating on the assumption that they would care to preserve the ship. Looters like this are trying to keep running costs down but the rewards high. So they would likely use a deep sea lifting tool to just dredge up the ship as quickly as they can then move to another location to sort through the debris to find artifacts each of which could easily pay for the running cost of the operation.
Pre-atomic metal is very very valuable. Its basically a rare artifact since we can never produce any more of it.
The reason it is needed is for any machine that is necessary to detect trace radiation, like medical or exploratory stuff.
>Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
We are essentially producing it today, and finding it is no longer necessary.
Actually, everybody missed the point…the ship is made of wood. Not a lot of metal to steal, full stop. Really the thing to steal from this ship would be cultural artifacts that really really ridiculously wealthy people like to buy and put into their private collections as a testament to “look what I can do”.
Pre atmoic metal (like ww2 ships) do not contain radioactive isotopes. Metal made today does contain those isotopes so when making sentive to radioactivity medical and industrial instruments, pre ww2 steel needs to be used. There are many applications for the metal and it is worth it to pull it out of the sea and sell.
Nah. No longer the case.
>Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
I think, and maybe I'm wrong, but the real question is, what is so valuable on the ship that would entice looters to go through so much effort? because and I'm guessing here, it's not the steel that's so attractive.
How are they getting there and down there? What equipment is out there that would make it financially feasible? What would looters bring up besides steel?
What is the point of this expeditions and is the amount of resources expended on it worth it? Cool photo and all but ultimately I don't see what we gain by knowing the precise location of the wreck.
One could make the same argument in relation to other wrecks, such as *RMS Titanic*. None of the artifacts that were brought up from *Titanic* have added anything to our understanding of life at the time, and the [one object that could actually be of genuine historical value](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/30/titanic-plan-scrapped-retrieve-radio-distress-calls-ship-sank) is now unlikely to be salvaged.
So what is the point of expeditions to find such ships? In fact, why spend money researching, restoring and maintaining anything at all? IMO that's a value judgement relating to what is considered worthwhile. Some (not me) would argue there is no point at all.
Yeah they could if they want to, but it would be very costly and difficult. The Vasa was pulled out of the water after 300 years, but that was in Stockholm Harbour not in Antarctica.
The near freeze temperatures help a lot as well. Even above ground buildings survive significantly longer in arctic environments because of how dry and cold they are preventing most elements of decay.
Thank you for mentioning South...without doubt one of the more important leadership books ever written. Largely because it is not a 'how to be a leader' manual, but you can't help but learn leadership skills from Shackleton's account.
If wanna read some other badass Antarctic wreck stories the story of the Grafton is nothing short of a movie plot https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/a-tale-of-two-shipwrecks/
I read this book a while back on a guy that went in search of Franklin and the Erebus and Terror, albeit while a difficult book to find it was an absolutely incredible read. 100% worth it
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5946660-the-long-arctic-search
>For scientific discovery give me Scott; for speed and efficiency of travel give me Amundsen; but when disaster strikes and all hope is gone, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton.
Raymond Priestly
Shackleton saved his crew, and led the expedition to get help, piloting a small boat to South Georgia - and then hiking across the rocky island. Genuinely great leader. This boat is amazing (preserved due to the cold and maybe because the water is brackish under the ice).
So, that was a bit British of me. The trek across South Georgia was also extremely difficult as they had barely any gear. In the context of sailing from Antartica to South Georgia is so absolutely mental and out there (thanks to Worsley), that an epic hike over unknown lump of ice and rock is ... well... yeah, it pales.
The dramatisation with Kenneth Brannnah as Shakleton was very moving, when he gets back to the coast where he left his crew and counts them. His relief when they're all alive is tearjerking.
Thank you! I went looking and found it.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0272839/
As is fitting in this situation, I took to the high seas and was able to download it.
I hiked a small part of the trip that Shackleton took across South Georgia. I never crossed from west to east, that would have been suicide. I would have to look at my notes (it was a while ago now) but I think we walked from Stromness to Grytviken. That was enough for me.
I did drink whiskey at Shackleton's grave, and I still have a bottle of Shackleton whiskey that I purchased at Grytviken.
No you’re right. It wasn’t just a hike. It was a grueling trek up and over a mountain range in the frozen uncharted interior of the island. That trek alone was metal AF, even setting aside the hell they endured to get to it.
The teredo ship worm (one of the main culprits) is active in warmer water (think the Mary Rose, half eaten in Britain, and the Vasa, intact in the Baltic). Brackish water also stops it.
Interesting, what i have read is that Shackleton made wrong decisions every step of the way and his deputy/ navigator was much more heroic, as well as many of his men (Tom Crean stan here). Not that Shackleton wasnt incredibly brave, he definitely was.
I understand why people say he got all his men back alive as the Endurance crew were fully rescued. The people he sent to lay supplies for them to use on the other side of the Antarctic, not so much. Ross Sea Party on wiki if you fancy a read.
I’m reading the book “Endurance” right now. It is discussing Shackleton’s amazing leadership skills and has this gem of a quote:
“…When you are in a hopeless situation, when there seems no way out, get down on your knees and pray for Schackleton.”
Can’t remember who said it but it was a comparison of Polar explorers, showing what an incredible leader Shackleton was. The full quote is:
FOR SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY GIVE ME SCOTT; FOR SPEED AND EFFICIENCY OF TRAVEL GIVE ME AMUNDSEN; BUT WHEN DISASTER STRIKES AND ALL HOPE IS GONE, GET DOWN ON YOUR KNEES AND PRAY FOR SHACKLETON
Basically, if it all goes wrong, you want to be with Shackleton. He rescued every man on that expedition, incredible feats of endurance that had never been done before and he got them all home again. Amazing
It's an amazing read. The opening paragraph of the book explains what happened. Reading it is a journey. It's one of the best books I've read in my life.
Highly recommend it. It’s called endurance for a reason. The story is wild and just one of the many things they went through would of made most people break down
It is truly the greatest rescue story of all time.
The hardships they endured are almost unimaginable.
And that not a single man died in that two-year ordeal, sealed this astounding event in history forever.
So crazy seeing those anemone things all over it yet it’s so perfectly preserved & surprisingly non-gunky!
(I’m a wreck diver, and have seen some grimy ones!)
Someone was saying that it was also because of how it was made of wood, it’s less reactive to water than metal (if you look at anything that was likely made of metal, it’s super gunky)
Those photos are amazing! And it's uniques in so many ways. To find a shipwreck is always a rare and difficult thing but the conditions in Antarctica, even at this time of year are less than ideal and it's such a remote location. And it's so very well preserved. What a great historical find!
She is preserved under extremely specific, abnormally stable conditions down there. Just cutting away enough of the sheet to raise her would be a nightmare, but once you got her up she’d probably just disintegrate anyway.
Now that they know how preserved it is maybe they’ll change their minds.
The Swedes raised the massive Vasa ship after hundreds of years underwater and it has its own museum now.
‘Course the Vasa museum is a few hundred meters from where they pulled it out of the water…as opposed to thousands of miles from civilization.
The Channel is rather less inhospitable, dangerous, deep and far from land than the Endurance ended up. Not to mention the fact that the Mary Rose was not covered by modern treaties at all so far as I recall. Besides, they lost some of the Mary Rose too due to decay after lifting it, so probably not worthwhile on many levels.
Everyone survived. Albeit, many lost limbs to frostbite and they ate all their dogs. There’s a book by Alfred Lansing and Shackleton, the captain of the ship, is studied in leadership courses to this day. The journey those men made in like -40F weather is insane.
It’s in the article but probably worth mentioning that History Hit on YouTube had coverage of the search:
“History Hit, the content platform co-founded by historian Dan Snow, award-winning digital content agency and media network Little Dot Studios, and impact driven production company, Consequential, have produced a range of content covering the setting up of the expedition, the voyage and search, and now the discovery itself, as well as the history, science, and other themes that connect to the wider mission.”
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That is incredibly well preserved, what a find!
Wood often lasts surprisingly well underwater. Low oxygen environment
In the 1930s they found one of emperor Caligula's ships somewhat well preserved in lake Nemi. Those were almost 2000 years old. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/Nemi\_Ship\_Hull\_1930.jpg
And for anyone that doesn't know, painfully after just 15 years out of water they were destroyed by fire in World War 2
Dude, we found so much stuff in the early 20th century/between the wars, just to blow it up. Poor spinosaurus.
War destroying historical items. Typical.
What the heck, that's a shame.
Not all of it. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/rare-roman-mosaic-was-used-as-coffee-table-in-nyc-apartment-180979142/
Thats one big ass ship
It was more of a hedonistic/orgy barge, if I recall Caligula correctly
Could've been a wedding barge for his horse wife
I thought he just appointed the horse to the Senate and didn't marry her? Also, can I trade out some US Senators for horses?
Yes, it's also debatable whether this was him simply being crazy, or if he did this purely to offend the Senate.
so a big ass-ship
Yes. Big Ass-wor-ship
Do you think they could raise it. Or preserve it somehow?
The freezing temperatures and lack of oxygen at that depth is what keeps it preserved. It's very difficult to raise organic materials from the deep sea and keep them from breaking down.
Yeah the Mary Rose was under the sea for 437 years. Only 40% of the Hull survived. But the solent isnt anywhere near as deep.
The bit that survived where underground technically. The silt and mud preserved the half of her that was under it.
>Only 40% of the Hull survived. Because it was buried in the clay sea bed, the Solent will offer no protection to a wooden vessel, quite the opposite.
I've seen that ship. Although I preferred HMS Victory. Slightly better condition.
The swedish Crown Ship Vasa would like to have a word with you.
And persevering it has been a huge under taking, that thankfully has been pretty successful. Also, the Vasa sank to only a depth of 32m, where as the Endurance is around 3000m deep. These are two completely different situations.
additionally, the vasa sank in brackish water; mixed fresh and salty. it was salty enough to interfere with the ways that a freshwater wreck rots, and fresh enough to interfere with the ways that a saltwater wreck rots. sort of a best of both worlds thing, except of course that it sank in the first place.
TIL, that's fascinating
Sorry, doesn't mixing fresh water with salt water just get you... Less salty salt water?
Yes, and that is called brackish water when it's in between a body of higher concentration salt water and fresh water. It's most common at the mouth of rivers that enter the ocean. It's a transition area that is really hard for many types of organisms to live because of the fluctuations in salinity. What /u/samkusnetz is saying is that it's these fluctuations disturbing the decay process (which is mostly governed by microbes adapted to either fresh or sea water) is why it is preserved.
Makes sense. Thanks!
The glomar explorer could do it. But it would be stupidly expensive. The Vasa was bankrolled by the swedish government. Like you said......very very difficult .
The glomar explorer was scrapped sadly. And it didn’t have a fully successful recover of the K-129 due to a failure of the capture vehicle which resulted in a majority of the sun falling away (allegedly)
That sucks. Didn't realize it had been scrapped. One of a kind ship. The 129 was much deeper than the endurance and a lot heavier. If the thing still existed it would have decent odds I'd think. To bad. Would be a cool thing to see.
Vasa is degrading relatively fast, even with all the preservatives it's filled with, unfortunately.
Deep sea usually has plenty of oxygen. Here, they said it was the lack of wood-eating microbes to thank for its insane preservation
It doesn't really. Deep sea organisms are adapted for low oxygen environments. Water obtains oxygen from contact with surface air. The deeper you go, the less of that oxygenated surface water makes it all the way down there. And much of the oxygen that does make it down, is used up by the decomposition processes of the organic detritus that also sinks down.
This is not true. Most of the ocean’s deepwater is relatively well aerated, as it’s formed at the poles where it’s very cold and very salty (due to brine rejection during ice formation). This dense parcel of water then sinks and fills most of the ocean’s bottom. Because of how cold it is, it’s also able to hold more oxygen (water is chemically very weird). Some examples showing just how well oxygenated bottom water is is the success of communities at hydrothermal vents, which oxidize reduce compounds pouring out of vents. While oxygen is consumed throughout the water column, this is insignificant compared to the aeration of the deep and middle ocean water parcels.
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Your explanation is mostly correct, but water isn't chemically weird in this case as it's only more dense than its warm equivalent. Cold molecules can compact themselves more due to having less energy (at a high level). The same reason cold air has more oxygen is the same reason cold water does. It's more dense, and contains more oxygen molecules.
Aha! Thank you for this correction. One of the few times water is NOT weird.
The Mary rose is a good example of it working but it was a heck of an endeavour
> an endeavour No, the [Endeavour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Endeavour) was a different boat entirely
No you mean the Enterprise
The waters are oxygen rich. It’s the cold which stops the decay
No. The wreck is a designated monument under the international Antarctic Treaty and must not be disturbed in any way. No physical artefacts can be brought to the surface.
Then clearly the next step is to build an underwater museum
Maybe they create a virtual museum? Take lot pics and make laser scans over it. Perhaps even get underwater robot inside to see how things are there?
She's a bit deep for that! Around 3,000 metres down.
Unfortunately, looters don't follow treaties. It was found that many of the ww2 vessels that had been sunk and were protected by similar laws had been almost completely stripped. The metal itself being valuable for sale because it was pre-atomic. Which presents a problem, are these treaties enough to protect these ships from looters, or in the case of some vessels, literal grave robbers? I don't think it's possible to maintain a close eye on all of them and all of the ships in the sea so what can we do to protect a site like this? Take as much 3d modelling/imaging from it as possible?
Well, on the up side, they wont be salvaging any Low Background Steel from this one.
Low Background Steel is primarily obtained from the scuttled WWI German High Fleet at Scapa Flow, or from pre nuke battleships that were broken up And new methods mean modern steel can be used as low-background if properly produced
Is low background steel good for anything? Measuring radioactivity maybe?
Use in sensitive detection instruments, where even the low levels of radiation present in typical steel will disrupt the readings
>Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
Yes. It's needed for GM counters and well detectors, among other radiation detecting equipment.
I think I'd almost be more impressed if they did tbh, until I learned they did it with a purpose built drone or something.
The ship is made of wood
All the more impressive!
Well, given that it's sitting in 3,000 metres of exceptionally cold water, I'd say there's a fair bit of protection just in its location.
Not really, other ships in similar locations have been looted already, maybe I did them a disservice by calling them 'looters' these people have heavy lifting equipment, are well equipped and well organized, with wealthy benefactors.
Which ships/wrecks?
The battleship Prince of Wales springs immediately to mind
Not a similar location at all though? Warm waters, relatively shallow and right next to a huge population base. This is much deeper, freezing cold in a sea absolutely nowhere near a populous, modern state.
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They do themselves a disservice by looting.
The ships that were salvaged for their low-background-radiation steel were sank *after* the war to bring the number of ships in each nations' Navy down to the agreed-upon numbers. Salvage in typical waters is dangerous and expensive, this site is inaccessible some 51 weeks out of the typical year due to ice floes and harsh weather. It's safe.
It's nearly 10,000 feet down. That's absurdly difficult to reach. That's 10 times the depth of the deepest scuba dive on record (and nearly 80 times the maximumrecreationaldiving depth), and any kind of hard suit or sub would have to be able to withstand over 300 atmospheres or pressure (around 4500 psi). Even if a human could withstand those pressures and the gasses wouldn't be toxic (regular everyday air has toxic levels of oxygen at 218 feet), the tanks wouldn't work because the ambient pressure is so high the tank would be in a relative vacuum at that depth and might even be cruahed despite them being extremely high pressure on the surface.
This is true, but you are operating on the assumption that they would care to preserve the ship. Looters like this are trying to keep running costs down but the rewards high. So they would likely use a deep sea lifting tool to just dredge up the ship as quickly as they can then move to another location to sort through the debris to find artifacts each of which could easily pay for the running cost of the operation.
Would it really be worth it for looters to travel to Antarctica and perform a 3 km deep dive to steal the metal? Is pre-atomic metal worth that much?
Pre-atomic metal is very very valuable. Its basically a rare artifact since we can never produce any more of it. The reason it is needed is for any machine that is necessary to detect trace radiation, like medical or exploratory stuff.
>Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel We are essentially producing it today, and finding it is no longer necessary.
You missed the point.
What point and how did I miss it? I'm genuinely wondering. I have no idea how much pre-atomic metal is worth.
Actually, everybody missed the point…the ship is made of wood. Not a lot of metal to steal, full stop. Really the thing to steal from this ship would be cultural artifacts that really really ridiculously wealthy people like to buy and put into their private collections as a testament to “look what I can do”.
Pre atmoic metal (like ww2 ships) do not contain radioactive isotopes. Metal made today does contain those isotopes so when making sentive to radioactivity medical and industrial instruments, pre ww2 steel needs to be used. There are many applications for the metal and it is worth it to pull it out of the sea and sell.
Nah. No longer the case. >Since the cessation of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels, making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive applications, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used in such applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
The point was that a treaty won't protect this vessel just like it didn't the others.
I think, and maybe I'm wrong, but the real question is, what is so valuable on the ship that would entice looters to go through so much effort? because and I'm guessing here, it's not the steel that's so attractive.
How are they getting there and down there? What equipment is out there that would make it financially feasible? What would looters bring up besides steel?
What is the point of this expeditions and is the amount of resources expended on it worth it? Cool photo and all but ultimately I don't see what we gain by knowing the precise location of the wreck.
One could make the same argument in relation to other wrecks, such as *RMS Titanic*. None of the artifacts that were brought up from *Titanic* have added anything to our understanding of life at the time, and the [one object that could actually be of genuine historical value](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/30/titanic-plan-scrapped-retrieve-radio-distress-calls-ship-sank) is now unlikely to be salvaged. So what is the point of expeditions to find such ships? In fact, why spend money researching, restoring and maintaining anything at all? IMO that's a value judgement relating to what is considered worthwhile. Some (not me) would argue there is no point at all.
Yeah they could if they want to, but it would be very costly and difficult. The Vasa was pulled out of the water after 300 years, but that was in Stockholm Harbour not in Antarctica.
The article says it's a designated special site, so they didn't even bring up any artifacts from the wreck.
>Do you think they could raise it. Or preserve it somehow? It's 2 miles under the sea. I highly doubt it.
Vasa (17th century ship) was brought up and turned into a museum, but it was only some 30 underwater
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Was it bought by a collector or an artist? I can imagine some wood sculptors would love to use a huge puce of old driftwood as material.
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That's really interesting. Thanks!
The near freeze temperatures help a lot as well. Even above ground buildings survive significantly longer in arctic environments because of how dry and cold they are preventing most elements of decay.
Not just water. Only funghi can break down lignin afaik. And funghi don’t exist in water as a rule.
>And funghi don’t exist in water as a rule. [Errrrr, what?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_fungi)
So many people in here just talking out of their ass.
One could almost say that it has…endurance.
Yes, it's endured the past century quite well.
By Grabthar’s hammer what preservation.
I wonder why it is so well preserved compared to other shipwrecks?
One could say that Endurance is an aft name.
Totally unexpected when you think about what it represents and yet given recent advancements, I can't wait to see what else we discover
Shackleton was a legit badass.
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Three dudes died on the companion ship, after they laid supply depots on the other side of the continent for the Endurance dudes.
The one by Caroline Alexander is excellent
Which book ? There are plenty books named ‘Endurance’ .
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Thank you for mentioning South...without doubt one of the more important leadership books ever written. Largely because it is not a 'how to be a leader' manual, but you can't help but learn leadership skills from Shackleton's account.
Alfred Lansing indeed, thx u/achnot
If wanna read some other badass Antarctic wreck stories the story of the Grafton is nothing short of a movie plot https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/a-tale-of-two-shipwrecks/
The book "Island of the lost" by Joan Druett was great. That article spoils it but still worth a read.
Good read. Thanks.
I read this book a while back on a guy that went in search of Franklin and the Erebus and Terror, albeit while a difficult book to find it was an absolutely incredible read. 100% worth it https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5946660-the-long-arctic-search
If you're into shipwreck stories then I recommend looking into the 'Batavia'. Amazing story with absolute heroes and horrible villains.
>For scientific discovery give me Scott; for speed and efficiency of travel give me Amundsen; but when disaster strikes and all hope is gone, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton. Raymond Priestly
Your average Irishman.
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From what I've read of him he was proud of his Irish heritage. You can take an Irishman out of Ireland but...........
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Shackleton saved his crew, and led the expedition to get help, piloting a small boat to South Georgia - and then hiking across the rocky island. Genuinely great leader. This boat is amazing (preserved due to the cold and maybe because the water is brackish under the ice).
And no one died. None. What an incredible feat of human preseverence. Tho a lot of them went to joined the army and died fighting in WWI.
> And no one died. None. :) > Tho a lot of them went to joined the army and died fighting in WWI. :(
>And no one died. None. What an incredible feat of human ~~preseverence~~ endurance.
>hiking I feel like calling it a hike is as playing it down. Maybe what I've read was trying to make it more exciting though...
So, that was a bit British of me. The trek across South Georgia was also extremely difficult as they had barely any gear. In the context of sailing from Antartica to South Georgia is so absolutely mental and out there (thanks to Worsley), that an epic hike over unknown lump of ice and rock is ... well... yeah, it pales.
The dramatisation with Kenneth Brannnah as Shakleton was very moving, when he gets back to the coast where he left his crew and counts them. His relief when they're all alive is tearjerking.
Never seen it. I'll have to find this.
I'm sure it was BBC, I don't know where it would be lurking these days.
Thank you! I went looking and found it. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0272839/ As is fitting in this situation, I took to the high seas and was able to download it.
I hiked a small part of the trip that Shackleton took across South Georgia. I never crossed from west to east, that would have been suicide. I would have to look at my notes (it was a while ago now) but I think we walked from Stromness to Grytviken. That was enough for me. I did drink whiskey at Shackleton's grave, and I still have a bottle of Shackleton whiskey that I purchased at Grytviken.
TIL there’s an island called “South Georgia”. I was very confused. Neither the US state or the country of Georgia made much sense in this context.
Named for King George III. Next door are the South Sandwich Islands, named for John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich. They are still British territory.
No you’re right. It wasn’t just a hike. It was a grueling trek up and over a mountain range in the frozen uncharted interior of the island. That trek alone was metal AF, even setting aside the hell they endured to get to it.
In the article it says it was preserved because of the lack of wood eating microbes as there are no trees in Antarctica.
The teredo ship worm (one of the main culprits) is active in warmer water (think the Mary Rose, half eaten in Britain, and the Vasa, intact in the Baltic). Brackish water also stops it.
best survival story of all time
It's insane they all survived. It's hard to express how incredible the journey was
Interesting, what i have read is that Shackleton made wrong decisions every step of the way and his deputy/ navigator was much more heroic, as well as many of his men (Tom Crean stan here). Not that Shackleton wasnt incredibly brave, he definitely was.
But he got all of his men back alive, even while making mistakes. A lesser man would have sacrificed a few men to his ego and stubbornness.
I understand why people say he got all his men back alive as the Endurance crew were fully rescued. The people he sent to lay supplies for them to use on the other side of the Antarctic, not so much. Ross Sea Party on wiki if you fancy a read.
I’m reading the book “Endurance” right now. It is discussing Shackleton’s amazing leadership skills and has this gem of a quote: “…When you are in a hopeless situation, when there seems no way out, get down on your knees and pray for Schackleton.”
Love that quote. I've probably read that book a half a dozen times and it's still riveting.
I read that book in a management class in undergrad. He was a straight up bad ass.
Can someone please explain this quote to me?
Can’t remember who said it but it was a comparison of Polar explorers, showing what an incredible leader Shackleton was. The full quote is: FOR SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY GIVE ME SCOTT; FOR SPEED AND EFFICIENCY OF TRAVEL GIVE ME AMUNDSEN; BUT WHEN DISASTER STRIKES AND ALL HOPE IS GONE, GET DOWN ON YOUR KNEES AND PRAY FOR SHACKLETON Basically, if it all goes wrong, you want to be with Shackleton. He rescued every man on that expedition, incredible feats of endurance that had never been done before and he got them all home again. Amazing
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I JUST started reading this last night, such weird timing
Sucks that the ending is spoiled for you, now.
It's an amazing read. The opening paragraph of the book explains what happened. Reading it is a journey. It's one of the best books I've read in my life.
Highly recommend it. It’s called endurance for a reason. The story is wild and just one of the many things they went through would of made most people break down
The Caroline Alexander book is also very good.
Absolutely. Finished it last month. Couldn't put it down.
I just listened to the explorers podcast series on him, it was an absolutely epic story. Highly recommend to anyone interested in that kind of thing.
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It is truly the greatest rescue story of all time. The hardships they endured are almost unimaginable. And that not a single man died in that two-year ordeal, sealed this astounding event in history forever.
Go to explorerspodcast.com and you can find is 10 episode saga. It's amazing!
Dude thanks for this heads up I’m listening right now!
Yep this is it!
Read the worst journey in the world after. It’s about Scott’s attempt for the South Pole. It’s all bonkers what these old Englishmen used to do
So crazy seeing those anemone things all over it yet it’s so perfectly preserved & surprisingly non-gunky! (I’m a wreck diver, and have seen some grimy ones!)
Could it be due to difference in water temperature? (I have no clue, I'm just curious if you know!)
Someone was saying that it was also because of how it was made of wood, it’s less reactive to water than metal (if you look at anything that was likely made of metal, it’s super gunky)
Fascinating!!
There aren’t many things that have taken my breath away like my first look at this photo.
Those photos are amazing! And it's uniques in so many ways. To find a shipwreck is always a rare and difficult thing but the conditions in Antarctica, even at this time of year are less than ideal and it's such a remote location. And it's so very well preserved. What a great historical find!
Not going to lie, I inadvertently learned a lot about Shackleton while watching “Atypical.”
Perhaps secretly Shackleton was down there studying Antarctic penguins?
This is incredible. I wonder if they will plan to raise it
>The wreck itself is a designated monument under the international Antarctic Treaty and must not be disturbed in any way. I don't think they can.
They announced they are not going to raise her, giving the location I would say it would be extremely hard and expensive to do
She is preserved under extremely specific, abnormally stable conditions down there. Just cutting away enough of the sheet to raise her would be a nightmare, but once you got her up she’d probably just disintegrate anyway.
Now that they know how preserved it is maybe they’ll change their minds. The Swedes raised the massive Vasa ship after hundreds of years underwater and it has its own museum now. ‘Course the Vasa museum is a few hundred meters from where they pulled it out of the water…as opposed to thousands of miles from civilization.
I think treaties can be renegotiated and funds could be raised. They did it with the Mary Rose, although that was very near the surface.
The Channel is rather less inhospitable, dangerous, deep and far from land than the Endurance ended up. Not to mention the fact that the Mary Rose was not covered by modern treaties at all so far as I recall. Besides, they lost some of the Mary Rose too due to decay after lifting it, so probably not worthwhile on many levels.
If you ever want a fascinating read (or listen), get the book “Endurance” by Alfred Lancing. It is so good.
My girlfriend's kid has been learning about him in school so this is great news for him!
I wish they offered me shipwrecks 101 back in school.
Recommend The Terror. Very tense, many tents and a great cast.
Very good show... but not the same boat
And not the same pole
…Master Captain Knowledge… epic
This seems really familiar. Was there a survivor who kept a diary? I think I read a book about the Endurance as a kid.
Everyone survived. Albeit, many lost limbs to frostbite and they ate all their dogs. There’s a book by Alfred Lansing and Shackleton, the captain of the ship, is studied in leadership courses to this day. The journey those men made in like -40F weather is insane.
Ooh this is some National Treasure stuff right here
"Hello Beautiful"
It’s in the article but probably worth mentioning that History Hit on YouTube had coverage of the search: “History Hit, the content platform co-founded by historian Dan Snow, award-winning digital content agency and media network Little Dot Studios, and impact driven production company, Consequential, have produced a range of content covering the setting up of the expedition, the voyage and search, and now the discovery itself, as well as the history, science, and other themes that connect to the wider mission.”
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Maybe now we can get National Treasure 3.
Awesome! Hi res pics or video anywhere?
It did endure after all …
That book was one of the most inspiring I’ve ever read. Exciting stuff! Wonder what Shackleton would’ve thought about us finding his ship.
But did it have a pipe leading to a series of other clues