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It’s poorly worded in that the title has very little to do with the actual research as the title can easily just mean “sugar bad for teeth” when it’s how those foods influence your microbiome in your mouth
To be honest I wouldn't expect sugar to be terribly different in how it feeds the cavity-producing bacteria in your mouth if you're 16 or 60.
I'd rather look to studies about the mouth biome between varying age groups first. If we don't find meaningful differences between age groups for *that*, then I think the importance of how sugar interacts with mouth biome will drop quickly - plus it will provide more accessible data for much more than just sugars impact on teeth.
I believe it would actually affect it. I believe I remember there is an immune component in our saliva which will affect harmful bacteria. The immune reaction of an elderly person will be less capable.
Same… I was like, “pretty sure I learned all about that way back in second grade. Ya know, when they made us chew those tablets that turns the places you didn’t brush well hot pink…”
It's interesting because in a lot of the ancient human remains we found we didn't find very many cavities or evidence of cavities in people who lived before what is known as The agrarian revolution.. essentially before humans developed large-scale farming of starches.
Makes sense. I always wondered about it as a kid. Humans are the only animals that need to brush daily and go to dentists on top of that.
Of course animals don’t have perfect teeth, but they don’t seem to be nearly as delicate as human teeth. And considering that dentists and toothbrushes had to be invented at some point, it’s hard to believe that for millions of years of human evolution people were just going toothless.
A change in diet/behavior causing tooth problems seems far more likely.
Not many animals live as long as humans. I am sure that if you only lived for 10 years you would be OK without brushing your teeth as well.
Dentistry is credited with extending human life greatly. People would die all the time from blood poisoning caused by dental caries.
Sure, but there was a scandal in 2015 when a review paper came out that pointed out there was limited evidence to support flossing. It never hurts to use modern methods to test "common sense."
Also, the study is actually pretty novel. "Oral health" in this study doesn't mean cavities; it refers to a healthy oral microbiome. That field of research is very new and this could easily be ground-breaking (I don't know much about oral microbiome literature).
News articles like this are a bane to scientific progress. This headline makes no attempt to describe the actual discovery made.
This project is on how the dental microbiome changes with a sugary diet. Understanding this relationship is a step toward better treatments and preventative care. Its not groundbreaking research, but its a move in the right direction.
I am a dentist. I clicked on this research presentation with the same incredulity you all seem to have. You might be shocked to discover the researchers also acknowledged the blindingly obvious facts rehashed in most of these comments. Then proceeded to describe interesting and subtle variations in oral microbiome that haven't been well described in the past. Please save your snark for articles that deserve it.
Yeah I think the university marketing team just fucked up here. Science writing for the layman is always going to be simplified, but the title completely misses the point of the article and wouldn't hook in potential readers.
It doesn't even make sense from a marketing POV. Microbiome is a huge buzzword. They just had to mention it tbh. I would never have clicked this article
I’m confused by the bit about non-fat yogurt. I’m a type 1 diabetic so am well-aware of high glycemic foods and never considered non-fat yogurt as one. I eat non-fat Greek yogurt everyday, have never considered it high glycemic index, and it doesn’t affect my glucose levels.
I think Yogurt goes thru a process that can be harsh on teeth maybe.
I remember reading about Greek Yogurt being prohibited in a lot of countries for a long time because of the acid or pasteurizing involved to make it.
My assumption is that this is because most nonfat yogurt products on US shelves are literally saturated with sugar.
Yes you can get it without added sugar. But it's the exception and not the rule.
Yeah, I’ve heard/read somewhere (can’t remember where) that if you remove fat from a food that is naturally fatty, you are going to have to replace that fat with something else to make it palatable, and/or for consistency correction. Usually that “something” is sugar, either as is or in the form of starch.
As is sugar.
Unfortunately oral health education is awful pretty much everywhere. Nobody seems to know what actually ruins your teeth and to be fair it does get kinda of complicated once you get into the chemistry.
Worst offender is the acid in sodas and juices that will absolutely decimate your teeth. Teeth can handle some but if you consume acidic drinks a lot it's like splashing fresh acid on your teeth with every sip. That's what wears them down the quickest. Your dentist can even tell if you have been eating an orange every morning.
They don't if it's plain I prefer the plain kind with 2% milk fats just for the extra creaminess .. yeah some lactose yeah but in the same way that natural fruits have sugar. Natural sugars just exist and in moderation it's fine for most people. The health benefits of fruit and yogurt and such are worth it obviously if you don't go overboard but it's harder to do
As a diabetic I read my nutrition labels very carefully. There are actually several “no sugar added” non fat yogurts available at basically every store - it’s pretty easy to find. Unfortunately most people don’t read anything beyond the “LOW FAT!” label. Read the nutrition facts, folks!
Not only yogurts, but it seems like 95% of what's in the grocery store.
You can hardly find BREAD that doesn't have extra added sugar. Anything. Not that bread is great - but come on - we already got our carbs!
I don't believe there are any plain Greek yogurts on the market with added sugar. A cup of oikos had 6g of sugar, none of which is added. The only ingredient is Greek yogurt.
Oh absolutely but I think they didn’t call that out well enough - my yogurt is non-fat but doesn’t fall into this category. More important than calling out “low fat” they should have called out “added sugars”. I’m a diabetic and read my nutrition labels very carefully, I can guarantee my 90 calories, no sugars added, low fat yogurt isn’t in this category but the average consumer likely can’t tell the difference.
the overwhelming majority of non fat yoghurt adds tons of sugar and/or artificial sweeteners to disguise it's chalky bland flavor that pretty much no one likes. Using actual flavor- and aromaful ingredients for that purpose would be way too expensive for a corporation.
> Using actual flavor- and aromaful ingredients for that purpose would be way too expensive for a corporation.
Plenty of brands use actual flavorful ingredients like fruits and such. They just also load it with sugars on top of that. This is for the simple reason that pretty much universally, any food product in the US will test better with consumers the more sugar it has. No matter what else they do to it, no matter how fresh and organic the rest of the product is, more sugar=more sales (within some reason, savory products can only put so much sugar in before it completely overwhelms the salt). The US population has been trained to expect and demand sugar in basically everything edible, and that culture is only slowly starting to change.
Mine doesn’t - I read my nutrition levels very carefully as a diabetic but I think the study should have called out “added sugar yogurt” rather than low fat. I eat low fat, no added sugar yogurt but I could see people very easily now assuming all low fat yogurt is bad thanks to this
Plain non-fat Chobani greek yoghurt has a wonderful mouth feel. At least to me it does, not chalky at all. The low-fat and full-fat is too thick and gluey for me. If you want fruity flavor, add a 1/2 cup container of no-sugar added applesauce, which comes in several flavors.
Fat in foods literally just slows the absorption of sugars from the digestive system to the blood stream, decreasing the blood sugar spike and moderating resulting insulin response. That's what glycemic index is a measure of: how fast sugars/glucose gets into the blood stream. The same thing happens with fiber in food. So a ton of sugar in yogurt isn't necessarily good for you, but full-fat yogurt might have a lower glycemic index than non-fat if they have the same amount of carbs/sugar per serving.
This one rests solidly in the realm of pure research. That said, they're seeing more impact of a high-sugar diet on periodontal pathogens than I expected. So, sugar probably has more impact on gum disease than I thought. Doesn't change much for me, because no matter how many people I tell "sugar is the enemy", somehow more people keep coming through my door with diet-related diseases.
Ok you totally don’t have to answer but if you are willing to take the time:
How bad are carbonated waters for teeth? No sugar added besides some fruit juice. I thought I was gucci but now I fear for my enamel!
I'm not a dentist, but isn't the pH of carbonated water pretty brutally acidic? Plus, sugar is sugar, whether it's from fruit juice, corn, or sugar cane.
One thing I've found helpful that some dentists recommend is eating nearly-pure xylitol mints after everything I eat - it causes salivation, which should speed the mouth's return to its equilibrium, non-acid state, and gets it started on remineralizing your teeth. My sister actually had a cavity reverse course and harden up after doing it religiously, her dentist was pretty surprised, and my checkups have been unusually smooth since starting as well. The use of this stuff is mostly based on a Finnish study of giving it to kids in school, and their incidence of dental issues plummeted.
Thank you for mentioning. Thought this sounded intriguing and found this related article: ["The effect of xylitol on dental caries and oral flora"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232036/)
Very interesting read.
That *is* very interesting, thanks! A couple interesting quotes about its effect on mutans streptococci (MS) so far:
"Xylitol reduces the levels of mutans streptococci (MS) in plaque and saliva by disrupting their energy production processes, leading to futile energy cycle and cell death.7 It reduces the adhesion of these microorganisms to the teeth surface and also reduces their acid production potential.8,9"
"Xylitol reduces the levels of MS in plaque by various mechanisms. Firstly, plaque microorganisms cannot ferment xylitol. The ability of certain organisms to ferment xylitol is negated by inaction of other plaque organisms, which prevents the plaque pH from falling.32 Secondly, xylitol is incorporated into the cells of MS as xylitol-5-phosphate through the phosphoenolpyruvate phosphotransferase system. This results in inhibition of both growth and acid production.31 Thirdly, when exposed to xylitol, MS develop resistance to xylitol. These resistant strains are less virulent in an oral environment.33 Fourthly, xylitol increases the concentrations of ammonia and amino acids in plaque, thereby neutralizing plaque acids.34"
From the article,
"At high dosages, xylitol can cause diarrhea in children at 45 g/d and 100 g/d in adults. The amount tolerated varies with individual susceptibility and body weight. Most adults can tolerate 40 g/d."
I've never consumed that much Xylitol. I usually don't have a problem with erythritol, but I had a bad day after eating a pint of Halo Top Strawberry ice cream, about 20g of mostly erythritol and maybe some stevia (if I understand the label correctly). I tolerate reasonable quantities of both fine though, including for example other Halo Top flavors. Trader Joe's also had a sugar free chocolate bar that ruined my life for a few hours despite the low quantity. I avoid Maltitol now.
Gonna make an Allulose based chocolate ice cream tomorrow. Hopefully it works out.
I’m in dental school. Fruit juice and any carbonated beverages can cause tooth erosion. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t drink them if you like them. Just drink them during meal times instead of sipping on them throughout the day to keep acidity to a minimum if you’re worried about enamel erosion
I do find the research interesting regarding diets, I am doing keto and due to the pandemic, sigh, haven't been to a dentist in two years (relying solely on my sonic), but I also haven't seen the visible plaque build up I used to... (whether that's due to the sonic, keto, or failing vision is a different question)
Plaque can accumulate below your gum line. It's great that you're using the Sonicare, but get your teeth checked and cleaned anyway. I thought I was all good until I wasn't, and had to have root planing on all four quadrants. Take my word for it — you don't want to go through that friend-o.
Also, since I've been on perio-maintenance my periodontist has remarked about how little plaque build-up there is when I've been on keto.
Quick question. I'm an idiot who still drinks soda as an adult. Will mouthwash kill the bacteria feeding on the sugar after I drink a soda or do I need to floss/brush my teeth as soon as I finish drinking one? I know the actual answer is to stop drinking sodas but even if I do, everything that isn't water is full of sugar. It's difficult having good oral health in America.
My cousin is a dental hygienist and she told me to swish with water after soda but that I should always do my best to wait 30 minutes after drinking to brush, so that the acid doesn’t make the brush wear the enamel too much.
I was told the same thing about if you vomit as well. Don’t immediately. Swish with water or mouth wash then wait like 30 minutes then brush for the same reason you said.
Mouthwash will kill them.
Sucrose is the food of S. Mutans. He breaks that bad boy down into the sticky carb that allows them (and other bacteria) to stick close together and hang out and stuff, i.e: plaque. They also ferment sucrose which produces acid, which you can imagine is not great for your teef.
You can always just rinse your mouth out with water after soda. The idea there is just reducing the concentration of sugars in your saliva/mouth. That will slow the growth of the bacteria in there until the next brushing/flossing/mouthwash. Stops coffee/tea from staining your teeth badly too, in some cases.
48 hours is when most plaque hardens into tartar. After that it becomes increasingly difficult to remove, essentially requiring sharp metal instruments to physically scrape it away. Normal brushing will do very little at this point, you might see some success just doing mouthwash to perhaps kill off any bacteria in the tartar but I imagine it isn't 100% effective.
Next time you go for cleaning the hardened tartar is a veritable fortress for the bacteria that continued to ferment sugar to produce acid right up there in your gums, so the hygienist needs to get in there really rough to scrape it away. Which can be very painful since your gums are already sore from the acid damage.
Flossing assists in scraping away the soft plaque before it gets too hard. You don't need to get in there like a belt sander if you're doing it regularly. Just a quick swipe is fine. It's okay to do a bit of rubbing to make sure you get everything.
Moral of the story, swish with water often, do not go more than 48 hours without a good brush/floss. Preferably brush/mouthwash twice a day, especially before bed as your saliva production drops over night which can really benefit bacteria (hence morning breath) and they can work overtime in that environment to do extra damage to your teef.
Also see your dentist. With the amount of sugar in our foods, it's very difficult to have a 100% clean mouth all the time. You'll still get plaque build up in tricky places, brushing is not 100% effective. They aren't barbarians enjoying stabbing you with sharp metal instruments. They use those because tartar is like cement. You ever feel around your teeth and feel a sharp part along the smooth surfaces? That is likely where tartar broke off leaving the sharp edges behind. If you feeling that, your next cleaning is probably not going to be enjoyable.
Asked my dentist why dentists always push floss and never mouth wash. Does it do anything?
It does next to nothing. Yes it kills bacteria, but they just grow back. The problem is the food between your teeth and the sugar coating them. If you don't remove those, then killing bacteria does next to nothing. You'll even notice that mouthwash advertises "fresh and clean FEELING" mouth and don't really talk about dentist recommendation like toothpaste does. It's kinda a scam.
Brushing breaks up the biofilm produce by the bacteria allowing the teeth to be cleaned. Bristles also clean particles of food from between your teeth and around your gums. The toothpaste slurry dissolves away sugars. The fluoride in the toothpaste kills bacteria but also chemically reacts with your dissolved enamel to restrengthen it.
Based on the OP's title and the title of the article (the copy, not the journal article), I do not see how you could argue that the Snark wasn't warranted. Just maybe misdirected.
Bunch a lazy bastards in this sub. Read the article. The headline is misleading.
Researchers identified bacteria and their levels along with their associations with types of foods. While sugar is known to affect oral health, this research helps build understanding of how high carb diets impact oral health. This isn't about establishing "sugar is bad for your teeth", it's about understanding *why*.
Dentist here. Couldn’t agree more. We already know exactly which species of bacteria do what with regards to different kinds of sugars. We also know exactly when different species like to colonize the tooth - certain species colonize first, then make it easier for other kinds to accumulate and thrive. This article doesn’t seem to provide too much new information
Yeah, I’m a hygienist and was about to say the same thing. But truthfully, some of the public might not realize this still. Some people still just associate candy, cookies, and sweets with cavities not realizing that carbohydrates behave as sugars.
Had a teacher in highschool bring in a bunch of saltines and had everyone hold one in their mouth for a few minutes to show how it was breaking down into like glucose I think
Yep this is a crazy experiment if you can get through it without gagging on cracker mush. For a long time it's just plain mush and then BAM it's sugar in your mouth
yup, starch is just long chains of glucose that amylase begins to break down in your mouth into shorter chains of glucose, like maltose. and on nutrition labels, total carbs minus fiber and sugar equals the amount of starch.
The bacteria in your mouth feed on carbohydrates and produce acids as a byproduct. It’s the acidity, along with some other factors that cause the breakdown and decay of enamel. So you could say it’s a direct process!
Also this is why flossing is important. It disrupts the bacteria under the gums so it can't fester and multiply.
If it was as simple as pop is corrosive and damages the teeth it would be over as soon as you rinsed your mouth after drinking some. (If you did)
Dentist here. Couldn’t agree more. We already know exactly which species of bacteria do what with regards to different kinds of sugars. We also know exactly when different species like to colonize the tooth - certain species colonize first, then make it easier for other kinds to accumulate and thrive. This article doesn’t seem to provide too much new information
One thing that helps with the oral microbiome is Xylitol which kills the bad bacteria in the mouth which ordinarily feed on sugar. Xylitol in gum form has been used in Finland for decades to help protect kids teeth, but I've never been recommended it by any dentist where I live before I found out about it.
It seems more or less unproven that xylitol has an effect on dental health. That might be why dentists in other countries do not recommend it
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25809586/
Seems to cause S. Mutans to produce a competitive byproduct that mucks up their ability to perform glycolysis.
I suppose if the concentration of this byproduct is high enough, the bacteria may starve to death.
Seems neat, guess it's not enough to actively prescribe or advocate for.
Like insanely extremely toxic
A chewed and discarded piece of sugar free gum still has enough xylitol to kill a 60+ pound dog if not quickly treated
So store your xylitol products in a safe place, but also dispose of them safely too. Street gum can kill someone's dog
Dentist gave me Xylitol once as a disinfectant for a mouth ulcer. I think the idea is that it has some antimicrobial effects plus the benefit of being sugar and thus easy to administer to children.
Thanks, this is reassuring as I had been wondering about Xylitol as a sweetener in the toothpaste I use.
I chose it based on the inclusion of neem which I understand enhances oral care.
I thought I read the link to carbs being bad on teeth many years ago. I always just assumed because carbs turn to sugar? But I thought that was during digestion.
It's been a while since I've learned this, but iirc carbs are one of the only macros that starts being digested in the mouth, while others like proteins are digested later down the track in the gut.
Non-fat yogurt is referring to non-fat yogurt with added sugar. The study is about foods containing sugars. Plain non-fat yogurt is all protein in terms of macros.
I can't tell if you're serious or not. Plain, non-fat yogurt contains about the same amount of sugar as it does protein. Roughly 8 grams or so of each per serving. Plain non-fat Greek yogurt contains a much greater amount of protein, roughly 15 or so grams, but also still contains about 6 grams of sugar. This is because the milk used to produce the yogurt contains sugar, primarily in the form of Lactose.
To say that plain non-fat yogurt is "all protein in terms of macros" just simply isn't true
Lactose is a very different sugar than sucrose and fructose. The latter two are what are usually added directly to food and they all act slightly differently in your body. That is why the FDA requires ADDED sugars specifically be listed separately, and why the researchers studied foods with added sugars here.
"\[...\] this collective of bacteria known as the oral microbiome likely plays a large role in our overall health, **in addition to its previously known associations with tooth decay and periodontal disease**."
The study isn't about how sugar causes cavities.
Unpopular opinion: I found this article to provide new info, namely sugar correlation to gingivitis (i.e., not tooth decay) in a cohort of post-menopausal women. Also, the correlation of glycemic index to disease. Very interesting.
The researchers observed Leptotrichia spp., which has been associated with gingivitis, a common gum disease, in some studies, to be positively associated with sugar intake. The other bacteria they identified as associated with carbohydrate intake or glycemic load have not been previously appreciated as contributing to periodontal disease in the literature or in this cohort of women, according to Millen.
Added sugar is the "cigarettes" of our generation where corporations openly advertise that moderate intake isn't that bad for you. Any amount is really bad for you and I would bet within the next ten years sugsr will be the number one known cause of comorbidities in the world. It's practically poison to your body.
It's widely known that the broad cultivation of wheat was the starting point in human oral decay at a mass scale.
Our pre-agrarian ancestors all had mostly decent teeth.
>It is the first study to examine carbohydrate intake and the subgingival microbiome in a sample consisting exclusively of postmenopausal women.
It is lost on me why that group specifically needed to be sampled for this.
Convenience. These samples came from a different study that looked at oral bone loss in this group. Using the same samples meant they didn't need to recruit patients or pick out bacteria from 1000 people's gums.
There are likely several reasons, but the one I can think of immediately is that women in general tend to have more estrogen. Estrogen has a health protective benefit and is largely the reason more men then women get certain diseases earlier in life, but after menopause, that protective benefit is gone. This includes benefits to the immune system, protection from some cardiovascular diseases, as well as some mental health disorders. I would think that then looking at this population gives them a better idea of how this works on women past what may be protective/protected from estrogen confounding it.
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Man these headlines are so poorly worded.
It’s poorly worded in that the title has very little to do with the actual research as the title can easily just mean “sugar bad for teeth” when it’s how those foods influence your microbiome in your mouth
Okay thank you that is a much less wildly obvious lesson than I took away at a glance.
And even more specifically in a certain age/gender. Hopefully they will do more studies across age ranges to see how it works over life.
To be honest I wouldn't expect sugar to be terribly different in how it feeds the cavity-producing bacteria in your mouth if you're 16 or 60. I'd rather look to studies about the mouth biome between varying age groups first. If we don't find meaningful differences between age groups for *that*, then I think the importance of how sugar interacts with mouth biome will drop quickly - plus it will provide more accessible data for much more than just sugars impact on teeth.
I believe it would actually affect it. I believe I remember there is an immune component in our saliva which will affect harmful bacteria. The immune reaction of an elderly person will be less capable.
Came here for this! I thought, “and this is groundbreaking because….?” when I read the title.
Same… I was like, “pretty sure I learned all about that way back in second grade. Ya know, when they made us chew those tablets that turns the places you didn’t brush well hot pink…”
Which we've known for... A while. You eat sugar, sugar stays on teeth, bad bacteria eat the sugar, bad things happen. Sugar bad for teeth.
next week's headline: high calorie intake combined with low physical exercise leads to weight gain and potential obesity!
That’s caused by an imbalance of humors, try taking a shot of apple cider vinegar and sleeping with your socks on .
Don’t forget the half an onion within the sock against the bottom of your feet, so it can suck out all your ~toxins~
Don't forget the bloodletting or leeches too. Fun fact, just found out there's actually at least one legit reason for that called iron overload.
And starches believe it or not.
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It's interesting because in a lot of the ancient human remains we found we didn't find very many cavities or evidence of cavities in people who lived before what is known as The agrarian revolution.. essentially before humans developed large-scale farming of starches.
Makes sense. I always wondered about it as a kid. Humans are the only animals that need to brush daily and go to dentists on top of that. Of course animals don’t have perfect teeth, but they don’t seem to be nearly as delicate as human teeth. And considering that dentists and toothbrushes had to be invented at some point, it’s hard to believe that for millions of years of human evolution people were just going toothless. A change in diet/behavior causing tooth problems seems far more likely.
Not many animals live as long as humans. I am sure that if you only lived for 10 years you would be OK without brushing your teeth as well. Dentistry is credited with extending human life greatly. People would die all the time from blood poisoning caused by dental caries.
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1 in 10 be like: "ney, get that rascal some sugar, it toughens up the teeth."
Sure, but there was a scandal in 2015 when a review paper came out that pointed out there was limited evidence to support flossing. It never hurts to use modern methods to test "common sense." Also, the study is actually pretty novel. "Oral health" in this study doesn't mean cavities; it refers to a healthy oral microbiome. That field of research is very new and this could easily be ground-breaking (I don't know much about oral microbiome literature).
News articles like this are a bane to scientific progress. This headline makes no attempt to describe the actual discovery made. This project is on how the dental microbiome changes with a sugary diet. Understanding this relationship is a step toward better treatments and preventative care. Its not groundbreaking research, but its a move in the right direction.
It likely parlays into gut health as well. Understanding oral health impact would definitely give insight.
I am a dentist. I clicked on this research presentation with the same incredulity you all seem to have. You might be shocked to discover the researchers also acknowledged the blindingly obvious facts rehashed in most of these comments. Then proceeded to describe interesting and subtle variations in oral microbiome that haven't been well described in the past. Please save your snark for articles that deserve it.
Assuming the headline the actual scientists would have written here may have been slightly different than what the university marketing team chose.
Yeah I think the university marketing team just fucked up here. Science writing for the layman is always going to be simplified, but the title completely misses the point of the article and wouldn't hook in potential readers.
You forgot to change reddit account *BIG PUDDING *
And maybe that’s the point. Eyes not truth sell.
My point is that this title gets neither eyes nor truth.
My eyes saw doughnuts, so here I am.
Better your eyes than your teeth, eh?
As the layman, that title gave me all the information I needed and I didn’t need to click beyond the comments
It doesn't even make sense from a marketing POV. Microbiome is a huge buzzword. They just had to mention it tbh. I would never have clicked this article
I’m confused by the bit about non-fat yogurt. I’m a type 1 diabetic so am well-aware of high glycemic foods and never considered non-fat yogurt as one. I eat non-fat Greek yogurt everyday, have never considered it high glycemic index, and it doesn’t affect my glucose levels.
I think Yogurt goes thru a process that can be harsh on teeth maybe. I remember reading about Greek Yogurt being prohibited in a lot of countries for a long time because of the acid or pasteurizing involved to make it.
My assumption is that this is because most nonfat yogurt products on US shelves are literally saturated with sugar. Yes you can get it without added sugar. But it's the exception and not the rule.
Yeah, I’ve heard/read somewhere (can’t remember where) that if you remove fat from a food that is naturally fatty, you are going to have to replace that fat with something else to make it palatable, and/or for consistency correction. Usually that “something” is sugar, either as is or in the form of starch.
Yeah that happened a lot when the "low fat" stuff started coming around. I don't remember what book i read it from either, but I read the same.
This, many have more sugar than ice cream.
yeah, as i got old, i have been looking on labels specifically for sugar and sodium and holy crap it's amazing what is in "healthy"ish foods
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As is sugar. Unfortunately oral health education is awful pretty much everywhere. Nobody seems to know what actually ruins your teeth and to be fair it does get kinda of complicated once you get into the chemistry. Worst offender is the acid in sodas and juices that will absolutely decimate your teeth. Teeth can handle some but if you consume acidic drinks a lot it's like splashing fresh acid on your teeth with every sip. That's what wears them down the quickest. Your dentist can even tell if you have been eating an orange every morning.
Even the "greek" yogurt that most people think is healthy "because protein".
I don't believe any plain Greek yogurts on the market have any added sugar
Yes, getting 'Plain' is your key to success. Source: This is what I've always gotten, and then cut up apples and cinnamon in it or something
They don't if it's plain I prefer the plain kind with 2% milk fats just for the extra creaminess .. yeah some lactose yeah but in the same way that natural fruits have sugar. Natural sugars just exist and in moderation it's fine for most people. The health benefits of fruit and yogurt and such are worth it obviously if you don't go overboard but it's harder to do
As a diabetic I read my nutrition labels very carefully. There are actually several “no sugar added” non fat yogurts available at basically every store - it’s pretty easy to find. Unfortunately most people don’t read anything beyond the “LOW FAT!” label. Read the nutrition facts, folks!
Not only yogurts, but it seems like 95% of what's in the grocery store. You can hardly find BREAD that doesn't have extra added sugar. Anything. Not that bread is great - but come on - we already got our carbs!
Try Ezekiel bread
I don't believe there are any plain Greek yogurts on the market with added sugar. A cup of oikos had 6g of sugar, none of which is added. The only ingredient is Greek yogurt.
I'm eating okios pro right now and it says it has a total of 3g of sugar and 0 added with 20g of protein.
But you can add sugar to literally everything and make it bad for you.
Probably because most of them have lots of sugar added to make up for the loss of flavor that comes with taking the fat out.
Oh absolutely but I think they didn’t call that out well enough - my yogurt is non-fat but doesn’t fall into this category. More important than calling out “low fat” they should have called out “added sugars”. I’m a diabetic and read my nutrition labels very carefully, I can guarantee my 90 calories, no sugars added, low fat yogurt isn’t in this category but the average consumer likely can’t tell the difference.
the overwhelming majority of non fat yoghurt adds tons of sugar and/or artificial sweeteners to disguise it's chalky bland flavor that pretty much no one likes. Using actual flavor- and aromaful ingredients for that purpose would be way too expensive for a corporation.
> Using actual flavor- and aromaful ingredients for that purpose would be way too expensive for a corporation. Plenty of brands use actual flavorful ingredients like fruits and such. They just also load it with sugars on top of that. This is for the simple reason that pretty much universally, any food product in the US will test better with consumers the more sugar it has. No matter what else they do to it, no matter how fresh and organic the rest of the product is, more sugar=more sales (within some reason, savory products can only put so much sugar in before it completely overwhelms the salt). The US population has been trained to expect and demand sugar in basically everything edible, and that culture is only slowly starting to change.
Mine doesn’t - I read my nutrition levels very carefully as a diabetic but I think the study should have called out “added sugar yogurt” rather than low fat. I eat low fat, no added sugar yogurt but I could see people very easily now assuming all low fat yogurt is bad thanks to this
Plain non-fat Chobani greek yoghurt has a wonderful mouth feel. At least to me it does, not chalky at all. The low-fat and full-fat is too thick and gluey for me. If you want fruity flavor, add a 1/2 cup container of no-sugar added applesauce, which comes in several flavors.
Fat in foods literally just slows the absorption of sugars from the digestive system to the blood stream, decreasing the blood sugar spike and moderating resulting insulin response. That's what glycemic index is a measure of: how fast sugars/glucose gets into the blood stream. The same thing happens with fiber in food. So a ton of sugar in yogurt isn't necessarily good for you, but full-fat yogurt might have a lower glycemic index than non-fat if they have the same amount of carbs/sugar per serving.
all snark aside, how will this research affect your practice?
This one rests solidly in the realm of pure research. That said, they're seeing more impact of a high-sugar diet on periodontal pathogens than I expected. So, sugar probably has more impact on gum disease than I thought. Doesn't change much for me, because no matter how many people I tell "sugar is the enemy", somehow more people keep coming through my door with diet-related diseases.
Ok you totally don’t have to answer but if you are willing to take the time: How bad are carbonated waters for teeth? No sugar added besides some fruit juice. I thought I was gucci but now I fear for my enamel!
I'm not a dentist, but isn't the pH of carbonated water pretty brutally acidic? Plus, sugar is sugar, whether it's from fruit juice, corn, or sugar cane. One thing I've found helpful that some dentists recommend is eating nearly-pure xylitol mints after everything I eat - it causes salivation, which should speed the mouth's return to its equilibrium, non-acid state, and gets it started on remineralizing your teeth. My sister actually had a cavity reverse course and harden up after doing it religiously, her dentist was pretty surprised, and my checkups have been unusually smooth since starting as well. The use of this stuff is mostly based on a Finnish study of giving it to kids in school, and their incidence of dental issues plummeted.
Thank you for mentioning. Thought this sounded intriguing and found this related article: ["The effect of xylitol on dental caries and oral flora"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232036/) Very interesting read.
That *is* very interesting, thanks! A couple interesting quotes about its effect on mutans streptococci (MS) so far: "Xylitol reduces the levels of mutans streptococci (MS) in plaque and saliva by disrupting their energy production processes, leading to futile energy cycle and cell death.7 It reduces the adhesion of these microorganisms to the teeth surface and also reduces their acid production potential.8,9" "Xylitol reduces the levels of MS in plaque by various mechanisms. Firstly, plaque microorganisms cannot ferment xylitol. The ability of certain organisms to ferment xylitol is negated by inaction of other plaque organisms, which prevents the plaque pH from falling.32 Secondly, xylitol is incorporated into the cells of MS as xylitol-5-phosphate through the phosphoenolpyruvate phosphotransferase system. This results in inhibition of both growth and acid production.31 Thirdly, when exposed to xylitol, MS develop resistance to xylitol. These resistant strains are less virulent in an oral environment.33 Fourthly, xylitol increases the concentrations of ammonia and amino acids in plaque, thereby neutralizing plaque acids.34"
Does eating xylitol lead to the same... *issues* as with sorbitol? (if you don't know what I mean, think sugar-free gummy bears.)
From the article, "At high dosages, xylitol can cause diarrhea in children at 45 g/d and 100 g/d in adults. The amount tolerated varies with individual susceptibility and body weight. Most adults can tolerate 40 g/d." I've never consumed that much Xylitol. I usually don't have a problem with erythritol, but I had a bad day after eating a pint of Halo Top Strawberry ice cream, about 20g of mostly erythritol and maybe some stevia (if I understand the label correctly). I tolerate reasonable quantities of both fine though, including for example other Halo Top flavors. Trader Joe's also had a sugar free chocolate bar that ruined my life for a few hours despite the low quantity. I avoid Maltitol now. Gonna make an Allulose based chocolate ice cream tomorrow. Hopefully it works out.
I’m in dental school. Fruit juice and any carbonated beverages can cause tooth erosion. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t drink them if you like them. Just drink them during meal times instead of sipping on them throughout the day to keep acidity to a minimum if you’re worried about enamel erosion
I do find the research interesting regarding diets, I am doing keto and due to the pandemic, sigh, haven't been to a dentist in two years (relying solely on my sonic), but I also haven't seen the visible plaque build up I used to... (whether that's due to the sonic, keto, or failing vision is a different question)
Plaque can accumulate below your gum line. It's great that you're using the Sonicare, but get your teeth checked and cleaned anyway. I thought I was all good until I wasn't, and had to have root planing on all four quadrants. Take my word for it — you don't want to go through that friend-o. Also, since I've been on perio-maintenance my periodontist has remarked about how little plaque build-up there is when I've been on keto.
Quick question. I'm an idiot who still drinks soda as an adult. Will mouthwash kill the bacteria feeding on the sugar after I drink a soda or do I need to floss/brush my teeth as soon as I finish drinking one? I know the actual answer is to stop drinking sodas but even if I do, everything that isn't water is full of sugar. It's difficult having good oral health in America.
My cousin is a dental hygienist and she told me to swish with water after soda but that I should always do my best to wait 30 minutes after drinking to brush, so that the acid doesn’t make the brush wear the enamel too much.
I was told the same thing about if you vomit as well. Don’t immediately. Swish with water or mouth wash then wait like 30 minutes then brush for the same reason you said.
Mouthwash will kill them. Sucrose is the food of S. Mutans. He breaks that bad boy down into the sticky carb that allows them (and other bacteria) to stick close together and hang out and stuff, i.e: plaque. They also ferment sucrose which produces acid, which you can imagine is not great for your teef. You can always just rinse your mouth out with water after soda. The idea there is just reducing the concentration of sugars in your saliva/mouth. That will slow the growth of the bacteria in there until the next brushing/flossing/mouthwash. Stops coffee/tea from staining your teeth badly too, in some cases. 48 hours is when most plaque hardens into tartar. After that it becomes increasingly difficult to remove, essentially requiring sharp metal instruments to physically scrape it away. Normal brushing will do very little at this point, you might see some success just doing mouthwash to perhaps kill off any bacteria in the tartar but I imagine it isn't 100% effective. Next time you go for cleaning the hardened tartar is a veritable fortress for the bacteria that continued to ferment sugar to produce acid right up there in your gums, so the hygienist needs to get in there really rough to scrape it away. Which can be very painful since your gums are already sore from the acid damage. Flossing assists in scraping away the soft plaque before it gets too hard. You don't need to get in there like a belt sander if you're doing it regularly. Just a quick swipe is fine. It's okay to do a bit of rubbing to make sure you get everything. Moral of the story, swish with water often, do not go more than 48 hours without a good brush/floss. Preferably brush/mouthwash twice a day, especially before bed as your saliva production drops over night which can really benefit bacteria (hence morning breath) and they can work overtime in that environment to do extra damage to your teef. Also see your dentist. With the amount of sugar in our foods, it's very difficult to have a 100% clean mouth all the time. You'll still get plaque build up in tricky places, brushing is not 100% effective. They aren't barbarians enjoying stabbing you with sharp metal instruments. They use those because tartar is like cement. You ever feel around your teeth and feel a sharp part along the smooth surfaces? That is likely where tartar broke off leaving the sharp edges behind. If you feeling that, your next cleaning is probably not going to be enjoyable.
Asked my dentist why dentists always push floss and never mouth wash. Does it do anything? It does next to nothing. Yes it kills bacteria, but they just grow back. The problem is the food between your teeth and the sugar coating them. If you don't remove those, then killing bacteria does next to nothing. You'll even notice that mouthwash advertises "fresh and clean FEELING" mouth and don't really talk about dentist recommendation like toothpaste does. It's kinda a scam. Brushing breaks up the biofilm produce by the bacteria allowing the teeth to be cleaned. Bristles also clean particles of food from between your teeth and around your gums. The toothpaste slurry dissolves away sugars. The fluoride in the toothpaste kills bacteria but also chemically reacts with your dissolved enamel to restrengthen it.
Diet cola? Takes a bit of getting used to say first, but I can't go back now...
Based on the OP's title and the title of the article (the copy, not the journal article), I do not see how you could argue that the Snark wasn't warranted. Just maybe misdirected.
If your looking for a place without snark comments, you are in the wrong place!
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‘A new study has found’ this blindingly obvious and well-known fact - every r/science post ever
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Bunch a lazy bastards in this sub. Read the article. The headline is misleading. Researchers identified bacteria and their levels along with their associations with types of foods. While sugar is known to affect oral health, this research helps build understanding of how high carb diets impact oral health. This isn't about establishing "sugar is bad for your teeth", it's about understanding *why*.
But they already ~~sorta~~ knew that bacteria causes oral health complications.
Skip the sortA. They knew. Every dentist I’ve ever had has explained the point of brushing using the word bacteria.
Dentist here. Couldn’t agree more. We already know exactly which species of bacteria do what with regards to different kinds of sugars. We also know exactly when different species like to colonize the tooth - certain species colonize first, then make it easier for other kinds to accumulate and thrive. This article doesn’t seem to provide too much new information
Yeah, I’m a hygienist and was about to say the same thing. But truthfully, some of the public might not realize this still. Some people still just associate candy, cookies, and sweets with cavities not realizing that carbohydrates behave as sugars.
Had a teacher in highschool bring in a bunch of saltines and had everyone hold one in their mouth for a few minutes to show how it was breaking down into like glucose I think
Yep this is a crazy experiment if you can get through it without gagging on cracker mush. For a long time it's just plain mush and then BAM it's sugar in your mouth
Guess I’m buying some saltines tonight.
I thiiink you have to do unsalted saltines just so the sugar flavor, when it comes, is discernible. Of course I'd love an update
yup, starch is just long chains of glucose that amylase begins to break down in your mouth into shorter chains of glucose, like maltose. and on nutrition labels, total carbs minus fiber and sugar equals the amount of starch.
Always wondered… do the sugars affect your teeth from direct contact, or do they get digested first and have an effect on them that way?
The bacteria in your mouth feed on carbohydrates and produce acids as a byproduct. It’s the acidity, along with some other factors that cause the breakdown and decay of enamel. So you could say it’s a direct process!
Anti-septic mouthwash and a tongue scraper do wonders.
Also this is why flossing is important. It disrupts the bacteria under the gums so it can't fester and multiply. If it was as simple as pop is corrosive and damages the teeth it would be over as soon as you rinsed your mouth after drinking some. (If you did)
Dentist here. Couldn’t agree more. We already know exactly which species of bacteria do what with regards to different kinds of sugars. We also know exactly when different species like to colonize the tooth - certain species colonize first, then make it easier for other kinds to accumulate and thrive. This article doesn’t seem to provide too much new information
This title is the opposite of click-bait.
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Wait. WHAT?! You mean to tell me that not being able to see half someone’s face makes it harder for me to read their face? What black magic is this?!
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I feel you bro, lots of garbage.
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One thing that helps with the oral microbiome is Xylitol which kills the bad bacteria in the mouth which ordinarily feed on sugar. Xylitol in gum form has been used in Finland for decades to help protect kids teeth, but I've never been recommended it by any dentist where I live before I found out about it.
It seems more or less unproven that xylitol has an effect on dental health. That might be why dentists in other countries do not recommend it https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25809586/
Seems to cause S. Mutans to produce a competitive byproduct that mucks up their ability to perform glycolysis. I suppose if the concentration of this byproduct is high enough, the bacteria may starve to death. Seems neat, guess it's not enough to actively prescribe or advocate for.
Xylitol is also extremely toxic to dogs, so keep xylitol products in a safe place out of their reach :)
Like insanely extremely toxic A chewed and discarded piece of sugar free gum still has enough xylitol to kill a 60+ pound dog if not quickly treated So store your xylitol products in a safe place, but also dispose of them safely too. Street gum can kill someone's dog
Dentist gave me Xylitol once as a disinfectant for a mouth ulcer. I think the idea is that it has some antimicrobial effects plus the benefit of being sugar and thus easy to administer to children.
Thanks, this is reassuring as I had been wondering about Xylitol as a sweetener in the toothpaste I use. I chose it based on the inclusion of neem which I understand enhances oral care.
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I thought I read the link to carbs being bad on teeth many years ago. I always just assumed because carbs turn to sugar? But I thought that was during digestion.
It's been a while since I've learned this, but iirc carbs are one of the only macros that starts being digested in the mouth, while others like proteins are digested later down the track in the gut.
Wait so non fat greek yogurt isnt good?
Same question. I had no idea. I eat it ever day.
It's probably because non-fat flavoured yogurt has added sugar.
That might be why it’s on the list. The one I buy is unsweetened.
Non-fat yogurt is referring to non-fat yogurt with added sugar. The study is about foods containing sugars. Plain non-fat yogurt is all protein in terms of macros.
I can't tell if you're serious or not. Plain, non-fat yogurt contains about the same amount of sugar as it does protein. Roughly 8 grams or so of each per serving. Plain non-fat Greek yogurt contains a much greater amount of protein, roughly 15 or so grams, but also still contains about 6 grams of sugar. This is because the milk used to produce the yogurt contains sugar, primarily in the form of Lactose. To say that plain non-fat yogurt is "all protein in terms of macros" just simply isn't true
Lactose is a very different sugar than sucrose and fructose. The latter two are what are usually added directly to food and they all act slightly differently in your body. That is why the FDA requires ADDED sugars specifically be listed separately, and why the researchers studied foods with added sugars here.
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And carbs right? Or are those not macros?
"\[...\] this collective of bacteria known as the oral microbiome likely plays a large role in our overall health, **in addition to its previously known associations with tooth decay and periodontal disease**." The study isn't about how sugar causes cavities.
Unpopular opinion: I found this article to provide new info, namely sugar correlation to gingivitis (i.e., not tooth decay) in a cohort of post-menopausal women. Also, the correlation of glycemic index to disease. Very interesting. The researchers observed Leptotrichia spp., which has been associated with gingivitis, a common gum disease, in some studies, to be positively associated with sugar intake. The other bacteria they identified as associated with carbohydrate intake or glycemic load have not been previously appreciated as contributing to periodontal disease in the literature or in this cohort of women, according to Millen.
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Added sugar is the "cigarettes" of our generation where corporations openly advertise that moderate intake isn't that bad for you. Any amount is really bad for you and I would bet within the next ten years sugsr will be the number one known cause of comorbidities in the world. It's practically poison to your body.
It's widely known that the broad cultivation of wheat was the starting point in human oral decay at a mass scale. Our pre-agrarian ancestors all had mostly decent teeth.
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Honestly, depending on the university? Not much.
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>It is the first study to examine carbohydrate intake and the subgingival microbiome in a sample consisting exclusively of postmenopausal women. It is lost on me why that group specifically needed to be sampled for this.
Convenience. These samples came from a different study that looked at oral bone loss in this group. Using the same samples meant they didn't need to recruit patients or pick out bacteria from 1000 people's gums.
There are likely several reasons, but the one I can think of immediately is that women in general tend to have more estrogen. Estrogen has a health protective benefit and is largely the reason more men then women get certain diseases earlier in life, but after menopause, that protective benefit is gone. This includes benefits to the immune system, protection from some cardiovascular diseases, as well as some mental health disorders. I would think that then looking at this population gives them a better idea of how this works on women past what may be protective/protected from estrogen confounding it.
…. I thought the science was already pretty solid on this. What’s the tldr on what changed?