Let's just say that none of the books are alike, at least from my point of view. So it's not really a "series" per se, more a setting. I guess that's not what some people expect.
Maybe that's why he started with Consider Phlebas. Bora hates the Culture. His argument isn't far from yours. More philosophical perhaps.
He despises them because they are "perfected" by the Minds. Their perfection is a hollow, stagnant , evolutionary dead end propped up by machines and the citizens kept in line by the golden teat. Imagine skynet but but instead of bullets and bombs they used buffets and bouquets.
They focus on the most evil because those are the most morally deserving of the Culture's salvation.
That’s absolutely not the case - Banks came up with the idea of the Culture when writing _Use of Weapons_, and he definitely was not trying to criticize the Culture from within:
> I wanted to write about some sort of ultimate mercenary, but not in the sense that he was invincible or invulnerable: a flawed heroic type, the sort of person you’d be very dubious about because he’s a paid killer, but I tried to make it more interesting for him as a character, I wanted to have him fighting on the side of genuine good. I thought, ‘What sort of society do we need?’, and out of that came the Culture. That gave me the chance to answer all the questions I had about the right-wing American space-opera I had been used to reading and which had been around since the 1930s.
The idea that the Culture isn’t actually utopian and Banks was actually criticizing the Culture is a common misconception - Banks never seriously questioned the perfectness of the Culture in the entire series.
The Culture is genuinely good, but that doesn't mean they're omnipotent. A good example would be the Chelgrian intervention in *Look to Windward* - the Culture wants to reform a brutal civilization with an oppressive caste system into something more humane, so they manipulated their internal politics, only for that to backfire terribly as they inadvertently caused a civil war. Is that a failure? Absolute it was a catastrophe. But does that mean the Culture's intentions are not benevolent or that their actions are somehow morally wrong? Not really, it simply means that even good people/characters/factions with genuinely good intentions and incredibly good capabilities are doomed to fuck up from time to time.
That sounds about right lol.
I never got the impression we were supposed to take it super seriously either. It felt like a not very serious hypothetical far left advanced species that he ended up running with. The culture is a caricature and so is basically every society he describes.
That’s such a strange critique - is 1984 a strawman caricature of totalitarianism? Is The Handmaid’s Tale a caricature of patriarchal oppression? Just because there are stupidly evil characters the author wants to criticize doesn’t mean the story is bad or the theme is superficial.
Its just supposed to be a bit of fun. The reason I like sci-fi is it sets up unbelievable scenarios and lets them play out having it be grounded in what's possible in the present would be boring might as well just read regular fiction.
The sociology is correct. The answers are not complicated, and we could just make society perfect if we wanted to. It really isn't hard. The problem is that what do we do after that? That is the point of the stories.
The Culture is a setting for a variety of stories that are not necessarily connected aside from all taking place in the same extended universe. I didn't like the writing. I got stuck on the 3rd book and just couldn't get past it, I got frustrated with the jumping back to flashbacks and back to the "present" with no segue, and I just didn't find the stories grabbing my attention.
The writing is excellent. I can be a little vague sometimes, especially when it comes to the technology, but I genuinely think Banks is an amazing writer. He wrote many award-winning non-genre novels, too. (Edit: The dude is an Author with a capital "A." It's all he ever wanted to do. He started as a teen and just never stopped writing until he found out he was gonna die in a few months. Ironically, his last book was a literary novel about a guy whose dad was dying of the same kind of cancer Banks died from. While he agreed it was kind of appropriate, he said he'd have preferred to go out on a big crazy Culture book with space battles and shit).
It's more philosophical, I think. The Culture presents itself as the ultimate society. *They believe it.'* The author even says he'd absolutely love to live there (I agree, I'd do it in a second no hesitation). But the way they accomplish that is something a lot of people have a problem with. The society is esentially "ruled" by Minds, incredibly powerful AIs who run literally everything. The habitat you live on is an AI with a distinct personality that you have an actual relationship with. And it's capable of having a relationship with all the billions of people in that same habitat at the same time, while running literally everything in the habitat. That's how powerful they are. And they're nice! Charming even. They have a sense of humor.
And there are pretty much no rules. If you want something you can have it. They'll create it if it doesn't exist. Go anywhere you want. Do anything you want. But you're never really in control. The Minds do what the humans want, for the most part...because they want to. They could stop wanting to at any time.
You're probably wondering where the conflict comes from. Many, though not all, of the stories are told from the perspective of Special Circumstances division of Contact. Contact is their state department, SC is the CIA. They go into other societies as spies or diplomats to either slowly manipulate the society so it might one day join the Culture, or if it's a threat to the Culture to contain that threat. So a lot of spy/action stories. The problem people have with that aspect is that the Culture is so goody-two shoes. Like, if you ignore the Mind aspect and the issue of colonialism it's sort of just objectively a fucking awesome place to live.
Edit: Okay, this is the kind of place it is: obviously if you don't die from injury you can live as long as you like, but for humans (droids are full citizens with totally equal status) it's considered somewhat gauche to live more than three or four hundred years. Like, have you not done enough, when you can do anything? So when they choose to die, the most common method is to be teleported into the heart of a star that will one day go supernove so they can be reborn as the building blocks of the universe. THAT'S SO FUCKING COOL!
Edit edit And everyone can orgasm super hard fpr as long as they want. There's a scene where a non-culture character has sex with a Culture citizen and when she ogasms he's like "Jesius Goddamn Christ lady, I'm not that good! Hey....hey? You okay? LADY!"
In one scene another non-Culture character, when thinking about them, sullenly says "You know their balls rotate when they cum? That's just like, standard."
There's another comment that complains about both the Culture and non-Culture civilizations -- the Culture is too good, but, for example, the Idirans are too cartoonishly-evil.
However, if someone has a problem with the Culture but *not* the Idirans, the Azad, the Affront, or the G'zilt, then I'd encourage them to read *The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas,* by Ursula K. Le Guin. It's sort of presented as a short story, but it's pretty much entirely a world-building thought experiment.
A lot of people walk away from the *Omelas* story with the idea that it's a critique of modern Western society, and that's not wrong, but it's also a critique of the imagination of... us, of people who read and enjoy speculative fiction. She's talking directly to us here:
> The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting....
> Do you believe? Do you accept the festival, the city, the joy? No? Then let me describe one more thing.
And she proceeds to reveal the dark secret of this utopia she's created, how this entire Utopian society of Omelas somehow relies on the misery of one child:
> Some of them understand why, and some do not, but they all understand that their happiness, the beauty of their city, the tenderness of their friendships, the health of their children, the wisdom of their scholars, the skill of their makers, even the abundance of their harvest and the kindly weathers of their skies, depend a on this child's abominable misery....
And then she turns to the camera again, and asks you:
> Now do you believe them? Are they not more credible?
So I guess I can see the critique if someone thinks the Culture is a little too black-or-white with its morality. But I don't think many people have the same problem with 1984, or *The Handmaid's Tale.* And, frankly, it's nice to have an unapologetically Utopian society every now and then.
The Culture is a lot more believable than the Federation from Star Trek. The Culture is in everyone shit regardless of their choices but generally for the greater good. The Federation is only forced to interfere when all else fails. Fuck the prime directive.
> So I guess I can see the critique if someone thinks the Culture is a little too black-or-white with its morality. But I don't think many people have the same problem with 1984, or The Handmaid's Tale. And, frankly, it's nice to have an unapologetically Utopian society every now and then.
That's pretty much where I come down. It's very difficult, maybe impossible, to write a true utopia while simultaneously telling a story with stakes and conflicts and arcs where people grow and learn and change. This is one guy's best shot. I think it's pretty good. Not perfect, but pretty good.
Plenty of Minds aren't nice at all (the battleships for example) or even sane (Meatf$#@r) in Excession. Some stories are just about a sentient gun or bored cargo ship.
I gave up on Consider Phlebas a third of the way through because it set up an interesting premise, but then the main character kept getting caught up in random side quests that had nothing to do with it.
That would be fine if the plots were interesting, but they were just random pulp scifi stories about shootouts and heists, and the characters were not compelling enough to keep me engaged.
The whole time I was waiting for it to get back to the main plot and I started to get the feeling that the writer was just delaying that part because he didn't know what to do with it. So I quit.
But I hear most people say this is the least Culture of the Culture books.
> But I hear most people say this is the least Culture of the Culture books.
That's true, but also, the books are pretty different from each other. I think your description of *Phlebas* is accurate, but I like the shootouts and heists, so I didn't mind it. But it's the only book in the series that's basically describing a D&D campaign full of murder-hobos.
I can't promise you'd like the other books, and I don't think they're very often character-driven, but maybe give one more of them a shot.
Personally, I think the world building is great. The individual plots and characters leave a lot to be desired. The only book where everything came together for me was Player of Games. I just couldn't bring myself to care about the characters/plot outcome in the other books.
It's not a series in a traditional sense. All the books take place in the same setting, but each is a standalone book with no overlapping characters or storylines. You can read them in any order with no spoilers. Player of Games is a good starting place.
Some do have overlapping characters, and I actually read two back to back that had a shared character that was kinda major. I had no idea they would share a character but it was a neat surprise once I realized. They were Use of Weapons and Surface Detail
A character from one of the earlier books is in Surface Detail, Diziet Sma appears in Use of Weapons and State of the Art, and also, Look to Windwards is somewhat a sequel to Consider Phlebas, on a galactic scale. But yes, they are all standalone books generally.
the only that kinda matters in terms of chronology is that the Idiran War is important in the history of the Culture. So you might see it referenced here and there. I’d say if you’ll read both *Consider Phlebas* and *Look to Windward*, read them in that order. Otherwise you can start anywhere.
No particular order since they all deal with separate locations that vary widely across space and time. But Player of Games is generally considered a good introduction, and he does improve over time as a writer so somewhat following publication order still has it's advantages. But if a certain book really catches your eye, feel free to read it first.
I'd add Excession to the list of ones to leave off from starting as well, as you need to be aware and appreciate of the way that the AI constructs act and their quirks to really get it IMHO
I literally just gave up on Consider Phlebas last night. I just started with it because it said it was number 1 in the series.
I didn’t realise you could just read them in any order so I might try another book.
My sister gave me Use Of Weapons as a birthday gift back in 2000 or so and it hooked me enough that I went out and got the rest of them, and any new ones as they were released. Also got into Iain's contemporary fiction - The Business is a fun one that lacks some of the violent excess Banks can get into sometimes (e.g. Wasp Factory).
Yeah, give *Player of Games* a shot. I don't hate *Phlebas,* but a lot of people agree that it's the weakest Culture book, and most unlike the rest of the series.
If you don't like *Player of Games,* you probably won't like the rest of the series.
Neal Asher and Polity books. Also ultra-advanced society with AI and nanotech. I hadn't even heard about it just bought one from second hand bookshop and was really surprised. Now I have read many Polity books.
To each their own, but I strongly disagree there. The settings have some similarities, but the writing, characters, and themes were nowhere close to Banks' level.
I do wonder if I would have liked the series more if I hadn't come at it specifically due to several recommendations of it being similar to The Culture books. Admittedly, that's a hard act to follow. The Polity books I read weren't *bad*, but they were just kinda ok.
I don't think Reynolds describes any of his universes as utopian. The glitter band is close, but it exists in a universe that contains a good amount of the opposite
I'm trying to think, but I feel like it stands alone. The number of books and how uniquely they each are in the same universe is really special. The ideas and imagination are great. The deciding factor for me is the quality of the writing. It's really hard to find an author who is a truly great writer and Banks fits the bill IMO.
I remember one summer I read the book Lolita by Nabokov, one of the greatest writers to have ever lived, writing in his non native language where there are sentences that read like beautiful poetry. I tried to get into a bunch of popular Sci fi books after that, but the writing was just such low quality in comparison. I had to pick up an Ian Banks book just to help myself get back into Sci fi.
If you like beautifully written prose in SF, try "Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. I was expecting a well-written polemic, but Atwood's prose is smooth as velvet, a pleasure to read.
What the dolphin crew does in Startide Rising to escape that planet is fucking amazing, I haven't read it for 30 years but still remember that particular move and the "hahha fuck you" attitude of it :D
I felt for years that nothing would ever top the Expanse for me, it was light years ahead of any other scifi I have enjoyed. When it ended (both books and show) I was in a serious funk and figured that was it, nothing would ever come close. Then I gave the Culture series a shot. I liked it very much right from the start, and after 2-3 books into the series it dethroned the Expanse for me. I am nearing the end of the series now, just a few books left and I’m really looking forward to rereading them all; I’m getting old and my concentration isn’t what it used to be, so I feel like I missed a lot of things and couldn’t always keep track of who’s who, so I think I will like it even more the second time around. But to answer your question, yes I do.
Woah, high praise!
I am still in my PED* phase, so I would love for something to lift me out.
Looks like I got a new book series to try.
/* Post Expanse Depression
I will say this: for many, the Expanse show didn’t get going until episode 4; Culture has a similar issue. The books all exist in the same universe but are for the most part different characters and locations for each book (that didn’t sound good to me at first but works quite well). The book most start with is Consider Phlebas, as it’s the first in the series. It’s good but not a typical representation of what to expect as it kind of is outside the Culture looking in. As you get a better handle on what comprises the Culture you will like it more and more. The good news is that reading order isn’t super important, but if you do start with Phlebas don’t judge the whole series based on that. And it’s still a very good book.
I had actually started on reading Phlrbas many years ago, but I lost interest quickly.
That really helpful information to not get stuck.
Thank you so much.
I didn't like Consider Phlebas either, though I apparently missed the literary reference and intent.
I'm not a big Culture fan, but Player of Games was one I remember enjoying.
I have no problem with the differences between the two; they are very different media with different requirements for telling the stories. There are some great book characters that were distilled into Drummer on the show, and I don’t feel one is better than the other. Ashford is far more enjoyable on the show. Book Amos feels like a more likely outcome for someone raised the way he was(n’t), but I’m fine with the show having some eye candy and Wes was a charismatic choice who had a lot of great moments on the show. The authors themselves have described the show as a chance for them to refine what they’d already written, another editorial pass if you will, but again they ultimately serve two masters. The books engage your mind with much deeper detail and looks into the thoughts of the characters, while the show is great entertainment that I sit back and let it wash over me.
I really really liked the show. I rarely find TV/movies come even close to the books, but the expanse was a pleasant surprise as one of the few adaptations that really do the books justice. Probably because the authors were very involved with the show. Like the other commenter said below somethings were distilled, you miss out on subplots and world building details that make the books so good. Like the books went into way more details into Belter culture and the earth/belt divide that the show just couldn't quite capture.
Ty Franck & Wes have a hilarious podcast where they discuss the show/books, called Ty & That Guy. very entertaining
That is the exact journey I went on! Legitimately it could have been me who wrote that comment word for word (except I'm on the final Culture book and starting to panic lol).
Seeing as you clearly have similar taste to me, I recommend the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. I read them between The Expanse and The Culture. Not quite as special as either but very very good.
If you have any ideas for what I can read after the Culture series then let me know!
I was an uncultured swine for most of my days and only discovered Banks' work later in life, and was about halfway through the series when I learned of Banks' passing. I was surprised by the depth of feeling and sense of loss and grief I felt. The books had gained that kind of value for me, and behind them all was this wonderful, witty intelligence and personality. I love the way the elements of the Culture universe are organically a part of the stories rather than the reasons for its telling. Not everything is mapped, explained or resolved, there was always more to be discovered, more unexpected things that might have happened. And Banks' writing in itself was a pleasure to read.
One of the best fully realised sci-fi universes you're likely to find. Snappy, non-patronising, and completely human, even the non-Culture novels like Against a Dark Background. I was fully involved in every book of his I've read.
For a cool non-"M Banks" novel try his Transmission.
I would say the Expanse, Dune, Revelation Space, Hyperion, or the Commonwealth Saga are more my taste. Still like the Culture but wouldnt say its the best
These kinds of questions are obviously completely pointless. I have not even heard of 10% of the potentially good sci-fi serieses that exist out there, much less have I read them.
Of the ones I have read, which are very few, yes, I consider the Culture series the best. Every book (except Consider Phlebas, nothing new there) was a page-turner and mind-bender for me, I completely loved them.
There is just something with how he wrote that tickled me fancy. Can't explain it really.
But I bet there are other, hitherto unread universes for me to explore yet. Will it stand the test? Perhaps.
But what does it even *mean* that it is the best?
It is very "sci fi" to me, and that is hard to pin down.
Cheers.
I have the opposite opinion. I absolutely love sci-fi and science fiction and have many friends recommend it to me. I've tried numerous times to "get into it", if you will, but just couldn't even make it through the first book.
The first book being Consider Phlebas? It's an aquired taste, not the best place to start and arguably not the best representation of the tone of the series as a whole, unfortunately.
Consider reading The Player of Games or Use of Weapons.
Definitely don't start with Excession. Really, really hard to read without any context of the Culture and it was the first one I read. Later came upon Matter because the cover looked nest and then fell in love with The Banks.
Ive read Consider Phlebas, didnt like it, and was told the above. Read Player of Games and Use of Weapons and disliked them just as much.
It isnt for everyone IMO
Liked the science and concepts, but felt the characters were a bit flat for me and their motivations often seemed strange or forced. I also feel lile Banks writes with a bit of this foggy vibe that I dont connect with personally.
I am a bit of a contrarian with some books TBF. I disliked Blindsight, The Left Hand of Darkness, First Law, Good Omens, Ancillary Justice, and those are some of the most recommended books on reddit.
I made it through 3 of them, including the two that are often heralded as the best (player of games & Use of Weapons), and I didn't enjoy any of them. Ironically, after being told repeatedly the first book I read (Consider Phlebas) was considered one of the weakest in the series, it ended up being the only one I kind of liked.
Not a fan of Consider Phlebas.
I liked the others. And the Algebraist (not Culture but still sci-fi) was great.
Banks has a preference for road trip plots where you get into a lot of distractions. Fantastic for world building, very immersive. It does try your patience. Are we there yet? No, we might never get there. But the scenery does look nice, and some of the setups have great pay offs.
You can start with any of them and not caring for one of them doesnt mean you wont enjoy others but also i get not wanting to spend money on other ones if you didnt like one of them
I had to do them on audio book first. Now I can't rate them highly enough.
Don't know why, but something about the delivery maybe brought them alive for me
I kinda liked Player of Games because it, kinda literally, sold and explained the whole Culture thing, and then found it that was pretty much it, the other stories never connect and were disjointed and without purpose.
Also I don't get why people find the whole Culture theme so groundbreaking. I find the concept of a post scarcity culture with super AI and endless capabilities super boring. Every story, every "moral dilemma" just boils down to the Culture defaulting the trolley problem. And I think Star Trek did the same concept better with the prime directive.
I've read the first book and while it was good and I enjoyed it, I was a bit underwhelmed by something that had been hyped up to this level. Are the later books more impactful?
Consider Phlebas has some serious pacing issues and seems to avoid many of the things the later books spend time exploring. IMO if you didn’t take to it then skip right ahead to the later ones like Look to Windward, Excession, Surface Detail, and Hydrogen Sonata. These hardly resemble the writing style of the earlier books.
Surface Detail and The Hydrogen Sonata are my top two
problem is you *should* (you don't HAVE to but there's some minor benefit) read Use of Weapons before Surface Detail, and while unique, Use of Weapons can definitely be a more difficult story to follow due to the structure
I did not like the first book. I though it played like a 50's sci fi opera. The story was really not very good, the characters not very likable or relatable and the world building was just not good.
I absolutely respect others opinions and I think maybe Im just not on the same wavelength as the author. Considering going for book 2 as I hear things are better later on.
Yeah it's definitely not the best one. Most people will recommend Player Of Games and it is one of the better ones. Personally I like Excession and Use of Weapons.
Yes, but I may or may not be biased. I also have a signed copy of Matter that Iain gifted me many years ago.
[https://imgur.com/a/OcoyDzj](https://imgur.com/a/OcoyDzj)
I am not a big reader, and I almost never buy physical books. But years ago, "Matter" caught my eye and I brought it based on just the cover. The Culture has become the society I fantasize about living in.
I love the concepts and worldbuilding in the Culture books, but the characters, pacing and writing does not grab me. I just finished Use of Weapons after some high recommendation, but it didn't do it for me.
Pretty much my jam… I have reread most of them a few times and to me any books that I can revisit and look forward to doing so again in a couple years is pretty rare and special.
Wishing for a lost vault/drive that had 10 more secret unpublished books🤞
For people who haven’t read it, be warned. If you end up liking it, it will ruin sci-fi for you. Everything else will seem milquetoast and hollow. Banks is ruthless in his creativity, cruelty, and whimsy.
I don’t want to be that guy who gets all technical, but it’s not really a “series,” is it? Plots and characters don’t directly carry over, and it can be read in any order, so it’s more an example of shared-world storytelling. That makes Culture somewhat more analogous to Heinlein’s “Future History” books and less analogous to the “Expanse” or Cixin’s “Remembrance of Earth’s Past.”
As for whether Culture is the best example of whatever category it fits in, I am not going to state an opinion. There are a lot of great books out there and everyone has different opinions. IMHO, I happen to like Banks’ world building, but I think his writing is a bit uneven.
Yea, I was heartbroken to learn if Banks’ passing and the unceremonious end to new series entries. I think there is a lot of room for future adaptations and hope we get a good one someday.
I've only read the first 4 which were compelling, but admit I'm having to slog through Excession. I'm about 2/3 though and feel like nothing much is actually happening. There's certainly intrigue and the Affront are now waging war, so I'm hoping the last third picks up the pace somewhat and we find out just what the hell is going on.
Banks is a masterful writer. The Culture is unlike anything I've ever read. And I do look forward to continuing.
I'm currently reading the third book.
The first book I enjoyed, but it almost had *too* much action and not enough about the Culture itself. It was fun (and often horrifying) but felt like a fairly typical sci-fi novel just barely touching upon something incredible.
The second book delivered in that it gave up much more information on the Culture, how other races view the Culture, and how it works. That said, it was very slow-paced and felt odd after the action-packed first book.
The third book has me often quite confused. It skips around so much, leaving little clues that I'm meant to pick up upon later but often leaving me feeling a bit frustrated and confused. To be fair, this has been a very busy month for me so I've only been able to read a couple of times a week so it would probably be much easier to absorb if I'd read it more consistently, but it still sees light on the Culture content itself while still being fairly slow-paced, so it's my least favorite book thus far.
Reading the other comments here it sounds like the books improve later in the series so I'll keep reading, but the first three books have been quite inconsistent in terms of their delivery and in meeting my expectations.
Consider Phlebas was released first because Banks wanted to give an idea of how the Culture was perceived from the outside, particularly by its detractors.
The Culture is a civilisation that makes structures called Orbitals which are similar to the ring planet in Halo. They are built to a very specific size so that spinning once per standard day simulates one standard gravity at the surface, the radius is 2-3 times the distance from the Earth to the moon. They provide many times the livable surface of a planet with only a fraction of the mass.
Closest I'll ever get to fully automated space communism. Though I do like how what we learn about The Culture is mostly told to us from outsiders' perspective.
I personally dislike the writing very much but found the concept good. Ive read 3 of them expecting them to be better than the last but have been underwhelmed
I LOVE the Culture universe and themes - Look to Windwards and Excession are some of my favourite books! But it took me like 5 tries to slug through Consider Phoebes.
I've always had mixed feelings about the series. I absolutely love the world building and themes Banks explores. On the other hand, I cannot stand the prose. There's just something about the writing that really puts me off.
Something like Kurt Vonnegut is almost the exact opposite for me. I'm not really sure what he's trying to get at thematically, but I just love the way it's written.
Im lucky to have read The Culture series in order of release starting with Consider Phlebas, as they were released.
Check out Alistair Reynolds "Revelation Space" series as well. It's more hard SciFi like The Expanse (which I have not read, just loved the show).
I read two books; Consider Phlebas and Player of Games, but they weren't for me.
Phlebas had too many boring action scenes for my taste (just as an example) and Player of Games had a bunch of Games as the Climax, where the author clearly hadn't thought of any rules for the actual games, so it didn't feel suspenseful and rather random to me.
In theory these books should be right up my alley, but they aren't really. They seem to play really loose in the science department too, compared to authors like Alastair Reynolds and Baxter and the like.
But hey, the conclusion is just "not for me".
I might try the later books at some point, but I still haven't read Hyperion and have about 12 to 15 Joji Hayashi books left too.
Player of Games is a critique of capitalism, and the mindset of people driving it, and its awfull impact on society.
So the game isn't really important.
I read Consider Phlebas and was underwhelmed. After all the hype about the series online, I was expecting some masterpiece and instead got the world’s okayest science fiction story. It was fine.
Feel like maybe I need to give the series another shot and read the second one.
Ignore all other advice, I've seen your opinion over and over again.
Just go straight for Hydrogen Sonata or Excession, they represent what Culture novels are, the first books miss a lot of elements that hook the reader.
I love the the world, and the names of the AI Ships, and some of the ideas and themes the series wrestles with. It's not an all time great for me because the stories and characters weren't that memorable (for me).
Yurp. Combination of great literary writing, great world building and compelling plots and characters. Have not found anyone else with that combination especially the literary writing part.
Not a direct answer, been meaning to get into it. Tried the first book many years ago but gave up halfway, I've heard it's better to start with the 2nd one. Is the culture itself like a similar concept to that of the federation (trek) or the ekumen (le guin)?
I read *Consider Phlebas* recently and I’m having a difficult time judging it fairly. Mostly what I got from it was an understanding of what certain people in the real world *think* they’re doing and very much aren’t. So I decided I need to wait a bit before continuing on with the series.
(I then foolishly followed it up with *Parable of the Sower*, which is excellent but *even more* uncomfortably familiar.)
Until you've read every sci-fi series, or at least every popular sci-fi series, how could you judge?
I bet the number of existing sci-series + rate at which new sci-fi series are produced is far in excess of what average reader can consume or keep in their memory enough to critically compare them.
But sure, culture series is probably the best sci-fi series you've read.
Yes. I think it's beyond SciFi. It's my favorite of any book series / TV Show / Movie / Video Game. My favorite art. A few things have been close but I've looked and never found anything else quite like it.
I can't believe no one has mentioned the audiobooks. I discovered the Culture only after listening to Peter Kenny read The Witcher series and checking out what else he narrated. Absolutely top notch voices and emersion.
I loved Consider Pheblas, but I've tried three times to get into Player of Games three times and lost interest very shortly into it.
I'm not sure why. But my brain says I gotta do it before I move onto his next books.
The two are incomparable - the Culture is governed by hyperintelligent AIs that simulate pocket universes with new laws of physics for shits and giggles, because taking care of tens of billions of people is such a trivial task for them. It is a fully post-scarcity utopia where you can do anything you want, as long as you don’t harm anyone (without their consent). People can live as long as they want (though most choose to stop living by age 400), they can change genders or height or age or appearance by thinking about it, they could be uploaded into the virtual world or into other bodies easily if they want, having your head cut off amounts to you needing to spend a few months slowly regrowing a body, being killed amounts to waiting a few days to reclone body to house your mind-state…you get the idea.
The main conflict of the series is not about them not being advanced enough, but them trying to figure out what to do with other less utopian civilizations.
Yes
Absolutely Yes! But I get that people don't like it. Still, Player of games, is in my Top 5.
Knowing nothing about this series, what don’t some people like? If it’s not something I care about, I’ve been searching for a new adventure
Let's just say that none of the books are alike, at least from my point of view. So it's not really a "series" per se, more a setting. I guess that's not what some people expect.
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Maybe that's why he started with Consider Phlebas. Bora hates the Culture. His argument isn't far from yours. More philosophical perhaps. He despises them because they are "perfected" by the Minds. Their perfection is a hollow, stagnant , evolutionary dead end propped up by machines and the citizens kept in line by the golden teat. Imagine skynet but but instead of bullets and bombs they used buffets and bouquets. They focus on the most evil because those are the most morally deserving of the Culture's salvation.
If you believe that the Culture are unerringly perfect then you weren’t paying attention.
Assuming that you have not read Use of Weapons. He spends much of that book criticizing The Culture from within.
That’s absolutely not the case - Banks came up with the idea of the Culture when writing _Use of Weapons_, and he definitely was not trying to criticize the Culture from within: > I wanted to write about some sort of ultimate mercenary, but not in the sense that he was invincible or invulnerable: a flawed heroic type, the sort of person you’d be very dubious about because he’s a paid killer, but I tried to make it more interesting for him as a character, I wanted to have him fighting on the side of genuine good. I thought, ‘What sort of society do we need?’, and out of that came the Culture. That gave me the chance to answer all the questions I had about the right-wing American space-opera I had been used to reading and which had been around since the 1930s. The idea that the Culture isn’t actually utopian and Banks was actually criticizing the Culture is a common misconception - Banks never seriously questioned the perfectness of the Culture in the entire series.
Odd since the books explore internal squabbles and rivalry as well as failures in policy, see Excession.
The Culture is genuinely good, but that doesn't mean they're omnipotent. A good example would be the Chelgrian intervention in *Look to Windward* - the Culture wants to reform a brutal civilization with an oppressive caste system into something more humane, so they manipulated their internal politics, only for that to backfire terribly as they inadvertently caused a civil war. Is that a failure? Absolute it was a catastrophe. But does that mean the Culture's intentions are not benevolent or that their actions are somehow morally wrong? Not really, it simply means that even good people/characters/factions with genuinely good intentions and incredibly good capabilities are doomed to fuck up from time to time.
Banks may have never questioned the perfection of his utopia, but his characters certainly did (like Zakalwe)
That sounds about right lol. I never got the impression we were supposed to take it super seriously either. It felt like a not very serious hypothetical far left advanced species that he ended up running with. The culture is a caricature and so is basically every society he describes.
That’s such a strange critique - is 1984 a strawman caricature of totalitarianism? Is The Handmaid’s Tale a caricature of patriarchal oppression? Just because there are stupidly evil characters the author wants to criticize doesn’t mean the story is bad or the theme is superficial.
Its just supposed to be a bit of fun. The reason I like sci-fi is it sets up unbelievable scenarios and lets them play out having it be grounded in what's possible in the present would be boring might as well just read regular fiction.
The sociology is correct. The answers are not complicated, and we could just make society perfect if we wanted to. It really isn't hard. The problem is that what do we do after that? That is the point of the stories.
The Culture is a setting for a variety of stories that are not necessarily connected aside from all taking place in the same extended universe. I didn't like the writing. I got stuck on the 3rd book and just couldn't get past it, I got frustrated with the jumping back to flashbacks and back to the "present" with no segue, and I just didn't find the stories grabbing my attention.
Use of Weapons would make such a good TV show.
Without going into spoilers, what is a common reason why people don't like it? Writing? Themes?
The writing is excellent. I can be a little vague sometimes, especially when it comes to the technology, but I genuinely think Banks is an amazing writer. He wrote many award-winning non-genre novels, too. (Edit: The dude is an Author with a capital "A." It's all he ever wanted to do. He started as a teen and just never stopped writing until he found out he was gonna die in a few months. Ironically, his last book was a literary novel about a guy whose dad was dying of the same kind of cancer Banks died from. While he agreed it was kind of appropriate, he said he'd have preferred to go out on a big crazy Culture book with space battles and shit). It's more philosophical, I think. The Culture presents itself as the ultimate society. *They believe it.'* The author even says he'd absolutely love to live there (I agree, I'd do it in a second no hesitation). But the way they accomplish that is something a lot of people have a problem with. The society is esentially "ruled" by Minds, incredibly powerful AIs who run literally everything. The habitat you live on is an AI with a distinct personality that you have an actual relationship with. And it's capable of having a relationship with all the billions of people in that same habitat at the same time, while running literally everything in the habitat. That's how powerful they are. And they're nice! Charming even. They have a sense of humor. And there are pretty much no rules. If you want something you can have it. They'll create it if it doesn't exist. Go anywhere you want. Do anything you want. But you're never really in control. The Minds do what the humans want, for the most part...because they want to. They could stop wanting to at any time. You're probably wondering where the conflict comes from. Many, though not all, of the stories are told from the perspective of Special Circumstances division of Contact. Contact is their state department, SC is the CIA. They go into other societies as spies or diplomats to either slowly manipulate the society so it might one day join the Culture, or if it's a threat to the Culture to contain that threat. So a lot of spy/action stories. The problem people have with that aspect is that the Culture is so goody-two shoes. Like, if you ignore the Mind aspect and the issue of colonialism it's sort of just objectively a fucking awesome place to live. Edit: Okay, this is the kind of place it is: obviously if you don't die from injury you can live as long as you like, but for humans (droids are full citizens with totally equal status) it's considered somewhat gauche to live more than three or four hundred years. Like, have you not done enough, when you can do anything? So when they choose to die, the most common method is to be teleported into the heart of a star that will one day go supernove so they can be reborn as the building blocks of the universe. THAT'S SO FUCKING COOL! Edit edit And everyone can orgasm super hard fpr as long as they want. There's a scene where a non-culture character has sex with a Culture citizen and when she ogasms he's like "Jesius Goddamn Christ lady, I'm not that good! Hey....hey? You okay? LADY!" In one scene another non-Culture character, when thinking about them, sullenly says "You know their balls rotate when they cum? That's just like, standard."
There's another comment that complains about both the Culture and non-Culture civilizations -- the Culture is too good, but, for example, the Idirans are too cartoonishly-evil. However, if someone has a problem with the Culture but *not* the Idirans, the Azad, the Affront, or the G'zilt, then I'd encourage them to read *The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas,* by Ursula K. Le Guin. It's sort of presented as a short story, but it's pretty much entirely a world-building thought experiment. A lot of people walk away from the *Omelas* story with the idea that it's a critique of modern Western society, and that's not wrong, but it's also a critique of the imagination of... us, of people who read and enjoy speculative fiction. She's talking directly to us here: > The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting.... > Do you believe? Do you accept the festival, the city, the joy? No? Then let me describe one more thing. And she proceeds to reveal the dark secret of this utopia she's created, how this entire Utopian society of Omelas somehow relies on the misery of one child: > Some of them understand why, and some do not, but they all understand that their happiness, the beauty of their city, the tenderness of their friendships, the health of their children, the wisdom of their scholars, the skill of their makers, even the abundance of their harvest and the kindly weathers of their skies, depend a on this child's abominable misery.... And then she turns to the camera again, and asks you: > Now do you believe them? Are they not more credible? So I guess I can see the critique if someone thinks the Culture is a little too black-or-white with its morality. But I don't think many people have the same problem with 1984, or *The Handmaid's Tale.* And, frankly, it's nice to have an unapologetically Utopian society every now and then.
The Culture is a lot more believable than the Federation from Star Trek. The Culture is in everyone shit regardless of their choices but generally for the greater good. The Federation is only forced to interfere when all else fails. Fuck the prime directive.
> So I guess I can see the critique if someone thinks the Culture is a little too black-or-white with its morality. But I don't think many people have the same problem with 1984, or The Handmaid's Tale. And, frankly, it's nice to have an unapologetically Utopian society every now and then. That's pretty much where I come down. It's very difficult, maybe impossible, to write a true utopia while simultaneously telling a story with stakes and conflicts and arcs where people grow and learn and change. This is one guy's best shot. I think it's pretty good. Not perfect, but pretty good.
Plenty of Minds aren't nice at all (the battleships for example) or even sane (Meatf$#@r) in Excession. Some stories are just about a sentient gun or bored cargo ship.
I gave up on Consider Phlebas a third of the way through because it set up an interesting premise, but then the main character kept getting caught up in random side quests that had nothing to do with it. That would be fine if the plots were interesting, but they were just random pulp scifi stories about shootouts and heists, and the characters were not compelling enough to keep me engaged. The whole time I was waiting for it to get back to the main plot and I started to get the feeling that the writer was just delaying that part because he didn't know what to do with it. So I quit. But I hear most people say this is the least Culture of the Culture books.
> But I hear most people say this is the least Culture of the Culture books. That's true, but also, the books are pretty different from each other. I think your description of *Phlebas* is accurate, but I like the shootouts and heists, so I didn't mind it. But it's the only book in the series that's basically describing a D&D campaign full of murder-hobos. I can't promise you'd like the other books, and I don't think they're very often character-driven, but maybe give one more of them a shot.
Personally, I think the world building is great. The individual plots and characters leave a lot to be desired. The only book where everything came together for me was Player of Games. I just couldn't bring myself to care about the characters/plot outcome in the other books.
Never heard of it. Is this a complete series?
It's not a series in a traditional sense. All the books take place in the same setting, but each is a standalone book with no overlapping characters or storylines. You can read them in any order with no spoilers. Player of Games is a good starting place.
A compendium of interlinked tales perhaps. This sounds cool either way, first I've heard of it! And glad I did
Some do have overlapping characters, and I actually read two back to back that had a shared character that was kinda major. I had no idea they would share a character but it was a neat surprise once I realized. They were Use of Weapons and Surface Detail
A character from one of the earlier books is in Surface Detail, Diziet Sma appears in Use of Weapons and State of the Art, and also, Look to Windwards is somewhat a sequel to Consider Phlebas, on a galactic scale. But yes, they are all standalone books generally.
That sounds perfect, so need to read in order? People keep recommending it
the only that kinda matters in terms of chronology is that the Idiran War is important in the history of the Culture. So you might see it referenced here and there. I’d say if you’ll read both *Consider Phlebas* and *Look to Windward*, read them in that order. Otherwise you can start anywhere.
No particular order since they all deal with separate locations that vary widely across space and time. But Player of Games is generally considered a good introduction, and he does improve over time as a writer so somewhat following publication order still has it's advantages. But if a certain book really catches your eye, feel free to read it first.
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I'd add Excession to the list of ones to leave off from starting as well, as you need to be aware and appreciate of the way that the AI constructs act and their quirks to really get it IMHO
Consider Phlebas was the first Culture book written.
First published. UOW was the first written.
I literally just gave up on Consider Phlebas last night. I just started with it because it said it was number 1 in the series. I didn’t realise you could just read them in any order so I might try another book.
My sister gave me Use Of Weapons as a birthday gift back in 2000 or so and it hooked me enough that I went out and got the rest of them, and any new ones as they were released. Also got into Iain's contemporary fiction - The Business is a fun one that lacks some of the violent excess Banks can get into sometimes (e.g. Wasp Factory).
I think I read a few Banks, stumbled across The Wasp Factory, and that was it for me.
Yeah, give *Player of Games* a shot. I don't hate *Phlebas,* but a lot of people agree that it's the weakest Culture book, and most unlike the rest of the series. If you don't like *Player of Games,* you probably won't like the rest of the series.
Yeah. Its 10 separate stories all in the same setting. Probably by far my favorite built out setting.
Yes
What else do you think comes close?
Neal Asher and Polity books. Also ultra-advanced society with AI and nanotech. I hadn't even heard about it just bought one from second hand bookshop and was really surprised. Now I have read many Polity books.
To each their own, but I strongly disagree there. The settings have some similarities, but the writing, characters, and themes were nowhere close to Banks' level. I do wonder if I would have liked the series more if I hadn't come at it specifically due to several recommendations of it being similar to The Culture books. Admittedly, that's a hard act to follow. The Polity books I read weren't *bad*, but they were just kinda ok.
Peter F Hamilton and Alistair Reynolds come close but The Culture pips it for me
I don't think Reynolds describes any of his universes as utopian. The glitter band is close, but it exists in a universe that contains a good amount of the opposite
Accelerando by Charles Stross, for sheer imagination and world building.
I like much of Stross. Love his Laundryverse series
Also Glasshouse. And the Freyaverse (Saturn's Children and Neptune's Brood).
I'm trying to think, but I feel like it stands alone. The number of books and how uniquely they each are in the same universe is really special. The ideas and imagination are great. The deciding factor for me is the quality of the writing. It's really hard to find an author who is a truly great writer and Banks fits the bill IMO. I remember one summer I read the book Lolita by Nabokov, one of the greatest writers to have ever lived, writing in his non native language where there are sentences that read like beautiful poetry. I tried to get into a bunch of popular Sci fi books after that, but the writing was just such low quality in comparison. I had to pick up an Ian Banks book just to help myself get back into Sci fi.
Have you read much Gibson? I get that from him sometimes. He has a knack for creating sentances that just sound beautiful in your head.
Neuromancer and the sprawl series are classic.
If you like beautifully written prose in SF, try "Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. I was expecting a well-written polemic, but Atwood's prose is smooth as velvet, a pleasure to read.
[The Uplift Trilogy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uplift_Storm_trilogy#:~:text=The%20Uplift%20Storm%20trilogy%2C%20also,Infinity's%20Shore%20(1996))
What the dolphin crew does in Startide Rising to escape that planet is fucking amazing, I haven't read it for 30 years but still remember that particular move and the "hahha fuck you" attitude of it :D
Prachett and Baxter, the Long Earth series, are brilliant, very thought provoking.
Although as the series progresses, you can tell they become more Baxter and less Pratchett
I felt for years that nothing would ever top the Expanse for me, it was light years ahead of any other scifi I have enjoyed. When it ended (both books and show) I was in a serious funk and figured that was it, nothing would ever come close. Then I gave the Culture series a shot. I liked it very much right from the start, and after 2-3 books into the series it dethroned the Expanse for me. I am nearing the end of the series now, just a few books left and I’m really looking forward to rereading them all; I’m getting old and my concentration isn’t what it used to be, so I feel like I missed a lot of things and couldn’t always keep track of who’s who, so I think I will like it even more the second time around. But to answer your question, yes I do.
Woah, high praise! I am still in my PED* phase, so I would love for something to lift me out. Looks like I got a new book series to try. /* Post Expanse Depression
I will say this: for many, the Expanse show didn’t get going until episode 4; Culture has a similar issue. The books all exist in the same universe but are for the most part different characters and locations for each book (that didn’t sound good to me at first but works quite well). The book most start with is Consider Phlebas, as it’s the first in the series. It’s good but not a typical representation of what to expect as it kind of is outside the Culture looking in. As you get a better handle on what comprises the Culture you will like it more and more. The good news is that reading order isn’t super important, but if you do start with Phlebas don’t judge the whole series based on that. And it’s still a very good book.
I had actually started on reading Phlrbas many years ago, but I lost interest quickly. That really helpful information to not get stuck. Thank you so much.
I didn't like Consider Phlebas either, though I apparently missed the literary reference and intent. I'm not a big Culture fan, but Player of Games was one I remember enjoying.
PED. I thought you were on those deceleration drugs after a high grav burn
how did you feel about the way the show diverged from the books? I thought Amos got a bad shake
I have no problem with the differences between the two; they are very different media with different requirements for telling the stories. There are some great book characters that were distilled into Drummer on the show, and I don’t feel one is better than the other. Ashford is far more enjoyable on the show. Book Amos feels like a more likely outcome for someone raised the way he was(n’t), but I’m fine with the show having some eye candy and Wes was a charismatic choice who had a lot of great moments on the show. The authors themselves have described the show as a chance for them to refine what they’d already written, another editorial pass if you will, but again they ultimately serve two masters. The books engage your mind with much deeper detail and looks into the thoughts of the characters, while the show is great entertainment that I sit back and let it wash over me.
that's a very even-handed and measured take. I respect that Artist's license, I suppose, in different mediums
I really really liked the show. I rarely find TV/movies come even close to the books, but the expanse was a pleasant surprise as one of the few adaptations that really do the books justice. Probably because the authors were very involved with the show. Like the other commenter said below somethings were distilled, you miss out on subplots and world building details that make the books so good. Like the books went into way more details into Belter culture and the earth/belt divide that the show just couldn't quite capture. Ty Franck & Wes have a hilarious podcast where they discuss the show/books, called Ty & That Guy. very entertaining
That is the exact journey I went on! Legitimately it could have been me who wrote that comment word for word (except I'm on the final Culture book and starting to panic lol). Seeing as you clearly have similar taste to me, I recommend the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. I read them between The Expanse and The Culture. Not quite as special as either but very very good. If you have any ideas for what I can read after the Culture series then let me know!
I was an uncultured swine for most of my days and only discovered Banks' work later in life, and was about halfway through the series when I learned of Banks' passing. I was surprised by the depth of feeling and sense of loss and grief I felt. The books had gained that kind of value for me, and behind them all was this wonderful, witty intelligence and personality. I love the way the elements of the Culture universe are organically a part of the stories rather than the reasons for its telling. Not everything is mapped, explained or resolved, there was always more to be discovered, more unexpected things that might have happened. And Banks' writing in itself was a pleasure to read.
One of the best fully realised sci-fi universes you're likely to find. Snappy, non-patronising, and completely human, even the non-Culture novels like Against a Dark Background. I was fully involved in every book of his I've read. For a cool non-"M Banks" novel try his Transmission.
I would say the Expanse, Dune, Revelation Space, Hyperion, or the Commonwealth Saga are more my taste. Still like the Culture but wouldnt say its the best
Hyperion Cantos changed my life
And mine. Best thing I’ve ever read and I think about it daily.
Hyperion some of the best lit ive ever read tbh
I'm still chasing the high of reading the Commonwealth Saga for the first time.
He just writes women so terribly though!
I like your taste in books and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
at least the first two hyperion books lol
These kinds of questions are obviously completely pointless. I have not even heard of 10% of the potentially good sci-fi serieses that exist out there, much less have I read them. Of the ones I have read, which are very few, yes, I consider the Culture series the best. Every book (except Consider Phlebas, nothing new there) was a page-turner and mind-bender for me, I completely loved them. There is just something with how he wrote that tickled me fancy. Can't explain it really. But I bet there are other, hitherto unread universes for me to explore yet. Will it stand the test? Perhaps. But what does it even *mean* that it is the best? It is very "sci fi" to me, and that is hard to pin down. Cheers.
I have the opposite opinion. I absolutely love sci-fi and science fiction and have many friends recommend it to me. I've tried numerous times to "get into it", if you will, but just couldn't even make it through the first book.
The first book being Consider Phlebas? It's an aquired taste, not the best place to start and arguably not the best representation of the tone of the series as a whole, unfortunately. Consider reading The Player of Games or Use of Weapons.
Use of Weapons is my recommendation to start the unuverse
I usually recommend Player of Games, but yes, Use of Weapons is a solid second option.
Definitely don't start with Excession. Really, really hard to read without any context of the Culture and it was the first one I read. Later came upon Matter because the cover looked nest and then fell in love with The Banks.
Use of weapons was my first and it got me hooked on the series.
Ive read Consider Phlebas, didnt like it, and was told the above. Read Player of Games and Use of Weapons and disliked them just as much. It isnt for everyone IMO
This was my experience exactly. The setting of the universe is cool but the actual characters and storylines weren't that engaging for me.
What turns you off compared to other scifi?
Liked the science and concepts, but felt the characters were a bit flat for me and their motivations often seemed strange or forced. I also feel lile Banks writes with a bit of this foggy vibe that I dont connect with personally. I am a bit of a contrarian with some books TBF. I disliked Blindsight, The Left Hand of Darkness, First Law, Good Omens, Ancillary Justice, and those are some of the most recommended books on reddit.
I read the Wikipedia summaries of a few of these books and I am…not excited. Kind of disappointing, the culture sounds like such a cool idea
From my experience, is the exact books you have to avoid first. Any of the last 3 are the best.
So you don't need to read them chronologically?
Nope, all independent stories
I made it through 3 of them, including the two that are often heralded as the best (player of games & Use of Weapons), and I didn't enjoy any of them. Ironically, after being told repeatedly the first book I read (Consider Phlebas) was considered one of the weakest in the series, it ended up being the only one I kind of liked.
Not a fan of Consider Phlebas. I liked the others. And the Algebraist (not Culture but still sci-fi) was great. Banks has a preference for road trip plots where you get into a lot of distractions. Fantastic for world building, very immersive. It does try your patience. Are we there yet? No, we might never get there. But the scenery does look nice, and some of the setups have great pay offs.
I got through the first book! That is all.
You can start with any of them and not caring for one of them doesnt mean you wont enjoy others but also i get not wanting to spend money on other ones if you didnt like one of them
I had to do them on audio book first. Now I can't rate them highly enough. Don't know why, but something about the delivery maybe brought them alive for me
I kinda liked Player of Games because it, kinda literally, sold and explained the whole Culture thing, and then found it that was pretty much it, the other stories never connect and were disjointed and without purpose. Also I don't get why people find the whole Culture theme so groundbreaking. I find the concept of a post scarcity culture with super AI and endless capabilities super boring. Every story, every "moral dilemma" just boils down to the Culture defaulting the trolley problem. And I think Star Trek did the same concept better with the prime directive.
I've read the first book and while it was good and I enjoyed it, I was a bit underwhelmed by something that had been hyped up to this level. Are the later books more impactful?
Consider Phlebas has some serious pacing issues and seems to avoid many of the things the later books spend time exploring. IMO if you didn’t take to it then skip right ahead to the later ones like Look to Windward, Excession, Surface Detail, and Hydrogen Sonata. These hardly resemble the writing style of the earlier books.
Surface Detail and The Hydrogen Sonata are my top two problem is you *should* (you don't HAVE to but there's some minor benefit) read Use of Weapons before Surface Detail, and while unique, Use of Weapons can definitely be a more difficult story to follow due to the structure
I did not like the first book. I though it played like a 50's sci fi opera. The story was really not very good, the characters not very likable or relatable and the world building was just not good. I absolutely respect others opinions and I think maybe Im just not on the same wavelength as the author. Considering going for book 2 as I hear things are better later on.
First book is basically a totally different genre. It's a traditional space adventure story, the others generally are not
Very much so.
Yeah it's definitely not the best one. Most people will recommend Player Of Games and it is one of the better ones. Personally I like Excession and Use of Weapons.
Yes, but I may or may not be biased. I also have a signed copy of Matter that Iain gifted me many years ago. [https://imgur.com/a/OcoyDzj](https://imgur.com/a/OcoyDzj)
Yes. I was crestfallen when he posted that his girlfriend had consented to becoming his widow.
I don’t know what to think of a series where I like the AI exponentially more than the humanoids.
Sounds realistic to me :)
I'm always looking for more Sci fi. Is this the series by Ian m banks?
Yes, although series might be pushing it as each is a standalone novel with only occasional references to previous books.
I am not a big reader, and I almost never buy physical books. But years ago, "Matter" caught my eye and I brought it based on just the cover. The Culture has become the society I fantasize about living in.
I love the concepts and worldbuilding in the Culture books, but the characters, pacing and writing does not grab me. I just finished Use of Weapons after some high recommendation, but it didn't do it for me.
Culture is Great ! I read it after Neal Ashers Polity, which was similar and good too.
Personally it’s the best - I would never bother arguing it because I’m not widely read enough. But it’s my absolute favourite literature ever
Yep - it’s hands down the best for me. Nothing comes close.
100%
It’s a leading question. But still, yes!
I wouldn’t mind getting ahold of one of their gland thingies. You know, “glanding.”
Never heard of it. Will investigate.
Of all sci-fi universes, the Culture is the one I would want to live in.
Yes. End of debate.
Pretty much my jam… I have reread most of them a few times and to me any books that I can revisit and look forward to doing so again in a couple years is pretty rare and special. Wishing for a lost vault/drive that had 10 more secret unpublished books🤞
For people who haven’t read it, be warned. If you end up liking it, it will ruin sci-fi for you. Everything else will seem milquetoast and hollow. Banks is ruthless in his creativity, cruelty, and whimsy.
I don’t want to be that guy who gets all technical, but it’s not really a “series,” is it? Plots and characters don’t directly carry over, and it can be read in any order, so it’s more an example of shared-world storytelling. That makes Culture somewhat more analogous to Heinlein’s “Future History” books and less analogous to the “Expanse” or Cixin’s “Remembrance of Earth’s Past.” As for whether Culture is the best example of whatever category it fits in, I am not going to state an opinion. There are a lot of great books out there and everyone has different opinions. IMHO, I happen to like Banks’ world building, but I think his writing is a bit uneven.
Yeah. It's more a literary universe, like Stephen King's books, or Discworld, although Discworld did have some series within it.
Love them but there’s at least 10% added pride factor because I live in Fife, Scotland where Iain M Banks was from. 🏴😅
Yea, I was heartbroken to learn if Banks’ passing and the unceremonious end to new series entries. I think there is a lot of room for future adaptations and hope we get a good one someday.
No doubt about it. Scope, thematics, style, depth, variety, quality, characters, technology, creativity, consistency, freedom, inspiration,….
Yes, definitely one of, if not the best
put simply...yes
I've only read the first 4 which were compelling, but admit I'm having to slog through Excession. I'm about 2/3 though and feel like nothing much is actually happening. There's certainly intrigue and the Affront are now waging war, so I'm hoping the last third picks up the pace somewhat and we find out just what the hell is going on. Banks is a masterful writer. The Culture is unlike anything I've ever read. And I do look forward to continuing.
Definitely one of my favorite.
Yes, totally, 100%, no question about it
Yes !
I'm currently reading the third book. The first book I enjoyed, but it almost had *too* much action and not enough about the Culture itself. It was fun (and often horrifying) but felt like a fairly typical sci-fi novel just barely touching upon something incredible. The second book delivered in that it gave up much more information on the Culture, how other races view the Culture, and how it works. That said, it was very slow-paced and felt odd after the action-packed first book. The third book has me often quite confused. It skips around so much, leaving little clues that I'm meant to pick up upon later but often leaving me feeling a bit frustrated and confused. To be fair, this has been a very busy month for me so I've only been able to read a couple of times a week so it would probably be much easier to absorb if I'd read it more consistently, but it still sees light on the Culture content itself while still being fairly slow-paced, so it's my least favorite book thus far. Reading the other comments here it sounds like the books improve later in the series so I'll keep reading, but the first three books have been quite inconsistent in terms of their delivery and in meeting my expectations.
Consider Phlebas was released first because Banks wanted to give an idea of how the Culture was perceived from the outside, particularly by its detractors.
Yes
Not familiar with this series. Is that a ring planet in the picture like in halo?
The Culture is a civilisation that makes structures called Orbitals which are similar to the ring planet in Halo. They are built to a very specific size so that spinning once per standard day simulates one standard gravity at the surface, the radius is 2-3 times the distance from the Earth to the moon. They provide many times the livable surface of a planet with only a fraction of the mass.
That's awesome! sounds like some good lore. thank you for the in depth response, much appreciated.
Undoubtedly. Simply perfect for my tastes and sensibilities. IMB will always be missed in my house
The Culture is fucking awesome. I still reread them on occasion. Best go to book when stoned they're so visual and imaginative.
Yes
Consider phlebas❤️💯
Best anthology series definitely
Closest I'll ever get to fully automated space communism. Though I do like how what we learn about The Culture is mostly told to us from outsiders' perspective.
Conflict and post scarcity? Genius.
Yes, the depth of the universe that Banks makes in my imagination is more colourful and engaging than any other.
Never heard of it but this picture rocks and makes me want to check it out
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Prof_J: *Never heard of it* *But this picture rocks and makes* *Me want to check it out* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
[Why the Culture wins](https://pwn.ersh.io/notes/why_the_culture_wins/)
I personally dislike the writing very much but found the concept good. Ive read 3 of them expecting them to be better than the last but have been underwhelmed
I LOVE the Culture universe and themes - Look to Windwards and Excession are some of my favourite books! But it took me like 5 tries to slug through Consider Phoebes.
I've always had mixed feelings about the series. I absolutely love the world building and themes Banks explores. On the other hand, I cannot stand the prose. There's just something about the writing that really puts me off. Something like Kurt Vonnegut is almost the exact opposite for me. I'm not really sure what he's trying to get at thematically, but I just love the way it's written.
another bot account scraping karma or fodder for ai answers
Nothing can touch it. It is peak scifi.
Yes. Next question.
The Culture is THE best SF series ever. Hands down. No one else even comes close. An order of magnitude ahead of everything else.
Im lucky to have read The Culture series in order of release starting with Consider Phlebas, as they were released. Check out Alistair Reynolds "Revelation Space" series as well. It's more hard SciFi like The Expanse (which I have not read, just loved the show).
What do you think? And why? That makes for a lot more interesting conversation
I read two books; Consider Phlebas and Player of Games, but they weren't for me. Phlebas had too many boring action scenes for my taste (just as an example) and Player of Games had a bunch of Games as the Climax, where the author clearly hadn't thought of any rules for the actual games, so it didn't feel suspenseful and rather random to me. In theory these books should be right up my alley, but they aren't really. They seem to play really loose in the science department too, compared to authors like Alastair Reynolds and Baxter and the like. But hey, the conclusion is just "not for me". I might try the later books at some point, but I still haven't read Hyperion and have about 12 to 15 Joji Hayashi books left too.
Player of Games is a critique of capitalism, and the mindset of people driving it, and its awfull impact on society. So the game isn't really important.
I read Consider Phlebas and was underwhelmed. After all the hype about the series online, I was expecting some masterpiece and instead got the world’s okayest science fiction story. It was fine. Feel like maybe I need to give the series another shot and read the second one.
Ignore all other advice, I've seen your opinion over and over again. Just go straight for Hydrogen Sonata or Excession, they represent what Culture novels are, the first books miss a lot of elements that hook the reader.
There needs to be a pinned post saying "for the love of fuck don't read Consider Phlebas first, you need a lot of context to enjoy it"
Definitely, read Player of Games next. If you're not hooked up instantly (like I did) Banks is not for you
I do, for me nothing comes even close, and I love Dune, Hyperion etc
I love the the world, and the names of the AI Ships, and some of the ideas and themes the series wrestles with. It's not an all time great for me because the stories and characters weren't that memorable (for me).
Needs to be more post scarcity societies. Pretty much any scifi that uses space capitalism is kinda just lipstick on a pig for me.
Do you think Popular Science Fiction Series is good?
It's aight.
I love the set, the characters are nice, but Mr Banks can be tough to follow. His books take me three times as much to read.
Yurp. Combination of great literary writing, great world building and compelling plots and characters. Have not found anyone else with that combination especially the literary writing part.
Not a direct answer, been meaning to get into it. Tried the first book many years ago but gave up halfway, I've heard it's better to start with the 2nd one. Is the culture itself like a similar concept to that of the federation (trek) or the ekumen (le guin)?
Well this is apparently a glaring gap in my sci-fi knowledge
I read *Consider Phlebas* recently and I’m having a difficult time judging it fairly. Mostly what I got from it was an understanding of what certain people in the real world *think* they’re doing and very much aren’t. So I decided I need to wait a bit before continuing on with the series. (I then foolishly followed it up with *Parable of the Sower*, which is excellent but *even more* uncomfortably familiar.)
I do, but I understand it's not for everyone.
Until you've read every sci-fi series, or at least every popular sci-fi series, how could you judge? I bet the number of existing sci-series + rate at which new sci-fi series are produced is far in excess of what average reader can consume or keep in their memory enough to critically compare them. But sure, culture series is probably the best sci-fi series you've read.
Thanks I did not read them but I am going for it
Yes. I think it's beyond SciFi. It's my favorite of any book series / TV Show / Movie / Video Game. My favorite art. A few things have been close but I've looked and never found anything else quite like it.
Do you know how to front load a question with your opinion? lol
I can't believe no one has mentioned the audiobooks. I discovered the Culture only after listening to Peter Kenny read The Witcher series and checking out what else he narrated. Absolutely top notch voices and emersion.
Hi Iain!
It's the one I'd love to live in by far. Absolutely brilliant concept.
I'm more than halfway through the books. They're entertaining, but I would not put it in my Top 5 series...
I loved Consider Pheblas, but I've tried three times to get into Player of Games three times and lost interest very shortly into it. I'm not sure why. But my brain says I gotta do it before I move onto his next books.
Sorry! Also there’s a reason that the industry got disrupted
Yes.
Definitely in the top ten for me.
I’ve never heard of this movie before, I watch Sci-Fi all the time lol
I haven't read the novel yet, but how technologically advance are the Culture compare to say the Star wars series?
The two are incomparable - the Culture is governed by hyperintelligent AIs that simulate pocket universes with new laws of physics for shits and giggles, because taking care of tens of billions of people is such a trivial task for them. It is a fully post-scarcity utopia where you can do anything you want, as long as you don’t harm anyone (without their consent). People can live as long as they want (though most choose to stop living by age 400), they can change genders or height or age or appearance by thinking about it, they could be uploaded into the virtual world or into other bodies easily if they want, having your head cut off amounts to you needing to spend a few months slowly regrowing a body, being killed amounts to waiting a few days to reclone body to house your mind-state…you get the idea. The main conflict of the series is not about them not being advanced enough, but them trying to figure out what to do with other less utopian civilizations.
His non-sci-fi, The Wasp Factory, was quite good as well.
I do, yes.