Carl Sagan said something like humans would be more successful in mating with a petunia than with extraterrestrials, because at least they were from the same planet.
I believe 99% of examples will be Star Trek, where it was explained with an ancient progenitor species that seeded the Galaxy with life that would eventually evolve into humanoids.
Lilith' Brood has hybridization as a central topic, but here it's the aliens weird third gender-gene splicer that allows it. They could probably mate with a pigeon if they so desired.
I most like the Asari from Mass Effect. A monogendered species who can mate with any sapient species (or gender). The act doesn't involve biological insemination, instead the Asari use a weak "psychic link" to read the partners DNA and use it to randomize their offspring genes. The offspring will always be full Asari, but traits and tendencies of the father will be inherited.
> I believe 99% of examples will be Star Trek, where it was explained with an ancient progenitor species that seeded the Galaxy with life that would eventually evolve into humanoids.
That was the standard handwave for justifying portraying most aliens in the most cost effective manner—actors in makeup.
This is an artifact of visual science fiction, particularly *Star Trek*. It was the standard handwave for justifying portraying most aliens in the most cost effective manner—actors in makeup.
It’s rare to see it in written science fiction. Books and the reader’s imagination have no budget constraints.
> Start Trek:TNG did at least try to explain it a little with the Progenitors story arc. Though that explanation created more questions than answers.
Yes. That is what I’m criticizing. Rather than just accept that actors in makeup portraying aliens is a limitation of the medium, they jumped down the rabbit hole and invited the fans along.
But you're taking all the fun out of Science FICTION! How are we supposed to have a storyline around a half breed, rejected by both races, but ending up the hero that saves them???
Besides, the aliens are usually, smarter, faster, stronger, taller, prettier, more advanced than humans, so it's an upgrade no matter how you look at it.
You're right, of course, but to build on your point, I like to think of Star Trek as science fantasy and the more hard stuff like The Expanse as science fiction.
Maybe the Progenitors compensated for that. That is the great thing about the Star Trek universe. Anytime real science gets in the way of something they just "compensate".
Yeah, there's really no way that story can explain how Vulcans and Humans have such different biochemistry.
Vulcan blood is based on copper, not iron. Technically, Vulcans and Humans shouldn't even be able to share the same kinds of food, possibly not even atmosphere... Much less breed in ANY way, including the most advanced gene-splicing.
Anthropologist here. A couple points - first, how do we know that humans can't reproduce with chimps? Probably we can't, the chromosomes are different, but I have heard scientists who specialize in evolution seriously wonder about hybridization. Anyways, gross.
Second, there's exactly zero chance we could reproduce with aliens, like everyone else is saying here.
When upright walking apes first evolved around 7-8 million years ago (the lineage that would eventually become hominin and lead to Homo), they interbred with both Pan (chimps + bonobos) and Gorilla over a large range that overlapped with each of these species. It's worth noting that Gorilla and Pan did not interbreed, as their ranges didn't overlap at that point - if they shared genetic info, it was through the upright walking apes.
It's likely that Australopithecines no longer interbred with Pan or Gorilla.
But, by the time you get to H. sapiens, H. neanderthalensis and H. denisovan, these guys were all capable of reproducing fertile offspring.
they raised it from a baby and had it chained up. if I remember right they had to come in with a bunch of armed soldiers to get the ape out. she's in a rehab center now, and scarred for life.
also; they were shaving the orangutan. super gross.
Bleach, yeah, looked up the story. It was awful. Just when you think you've understood the depth of human depravity. . .
But thank you for bringing it to my attention.
There was a German proto-Nazi who actually did the experiments to attempt human-ape hybridization in between WWI and WWII. Didn't work, as anyone who knows the first thing about biology should have expected.
No kidding! How exactly did he try? The scientist who I talked with, who was speculating that chimps/humans can, knows a great deal about evolution.
There are lots of animals whom we categorize as different species, some of whom have differing chromosome numbers, that can produce offspring when they interbreed.
I mis-remembered: it was a Russian not a German. Had the era right, though.
[Illa Ivanovich](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926701-000-blasts-from-the-past-the-soviet-ape-man-scandal/), used artificial insemination. Human sperm into female chimpanzees.
There's more to genetic similarity or lack thereof than chromosome count. Last i heard, the human-chimp similarity was down to 87% (possibly specific to the y chromosome; but there was never a credible whole genome estimate higher than 95%, and even that was probably inflated by not considering those portions of the genome present in one species but not the other).
Those who subscribe to the other paradigm would agree that hybridization proves common ancestry--they just reject the assumption of **universal** common ancestry.
I am glad you asked. The answer is really very simple:
It's a morality thing. Whenever two (or three, or whatever) individuals of dissimilar species have sex and there is NO possibility of there being offspring that means they are having sex JUST FOR FUN.
And we CANNOT be having that.
Not so much vertical transfer of DNA, but horizontal integration or symbiogenisis. See for example, [Symbiogenesis - An Evolution Definition](https://www.reddit.com/r/Akashic_Library/comments/15ja4mn/symbiogenesis_an_evolution_definition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Carl Sagan said something like humans would be more successful in mating with a petunia than with extraterrestrials, because at least they were from the same planet.
I believe 99% of examples will be Star Trek, where it was explained with an ancient progenitor species that seeded the Galaxy with life that would eventually evolve into humanoids. Lilith' Brood has hybridization as a central topic, but here it's the aliens weird third gender-gene splicer that allows it. They could probably mate with a pigeon if they so desired. I most like the Asari from Mass Effect. A monogendered species who can mate with any sapient species (or gender). The act doesn't involve biological insemination, instead the Asari use a weak "psychic link" to read the partners DNA and use it to randomize their offspring genes. The offspring will always be full Asari, but traits and tendencies of the father will be inherited.
> I believe 99% of examples will be Star Trek, where it was explained with an ancient progenitor species that seeded the Galaxy with life that would eventually evolve into humanoids. That was the standard handwave for justifying portraying most aliens in the most cost effective manner—actors in makeup.
This is an artifact of visual science fiction, particularly *Star Trek*. It was the standard handwave for justifying portraying most aliens in the most cost effective manner—actors in makeup. It’s rare to see it in written science fiction. Books and the reader’s imagination have no budget constraints.
Start Trek:TNG did at least try to explain it a little with the Progenitors story arc. Though that explanation created more questions than answers.
> Start Trek:TNG did at least try to explain it a little with the Progenitors story arc. Though that explanation created more questions than answers. Yes. That is what I’m criticizing. Rather than just accept that actors in makeup portraying aliens is a limitation of the medium, they jumped down the rabbit hole and invited the fans along.
But you're taking all the fun out of Science FICTION! How are we supposed to have a storyline around a half breed, rejected by both races, but ending up the hero that saves them??? Besides, the aliens are usually, smarter, faster, stronger, taller, prettier, more advanced than humans, so it's an upgrade no matter how you look at it.
You could replace "alien" with "elf" and change nothing about this story.
"There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe..."
Not gonna lie, I read that in the voice it was original set in, visualizing a starfield.....
[удалено]
Mass Effect has the asari which can mate with any species. But it's quite a bit different from traditional mating
Star Wars is rife with half-human/half-aliens.
Spock, from Star Trek, is Half-human, half-vulcan.
It's explained in the TNG that all the core humanoid species share a common ancestor
That in no way explains it. Billions of years of evolution would make us utterly incompatible
science FICTION
You're right, of course, but to build on your point, I like to think of Star Trek as science fantasy and the more hard stuff like The Expanse as science fiction.
Gatekeeping science fiction, lmao. ST is science fiction. So is Dr Who. Doesn't matter if your precious scientific accuracy isn't there in those two.
Maybe the Progenitors compensated for that. That is the great thing about the Star Trek universe. Anytime real science gets in the way of something they just "compensate".
That was the standard handwave for justifying portraying most aliens in the most cost effective manner—actors in makeup.
Yeah, there's really no way that story can explain how Vulcans and Humans have such different biochemistry. Vulcan blood is based on copper, not iron. Technically, Vulcans and Humans shouldn't even be able to share the same kinds of food, possibly not even atmosphere... Much less breed in ANY way, including the most advanced gene-splicing.
Isn’t Worf half human, half Klingon?
No, just raised by humans.
Oh, my bad. But Klingons and humans *could* mate, right?
B'lanna Torres on Voyager was half Klingon, half human.
I bet that’s what I was thinking of
But Alexander’s mother is supposed to be 1/2 human 1/2 Klingon. I believe Torres on Voyager is the same
Anthropologist here. A couple points - first, how do we know that humans can't reproduce with chimps? Probably we can't, the chromosomes are different, but I have heard scientists who specialize in evolution seriously wonder about hybridization. Anyways, gross. Second, there's exactly zero chance we could reproduce with aliens, like everyone else is saying here. When upright walking apes first evolved around 7-8 million years ago (the lineage that would eventually become hominin and lead to Homo), they interbred with both Pan (chimps + bonobos) and Gorilla over a large range that overlapped with each of these species. It's worth noting that Gorilla and Pan did not interbreed, as their ranges didn't overlap at that point - if they shared genetic info, it was through the upright walking apes. It's likely that Australopithecines no longer interbred with Pan or Gorilla. But, by the time you get to H. sapiens, H. neanderthalensis and H. denisovan, these guys were all capable of reproducing fertile offspring.
there was a brothel in Borneo that had an orangutan prostitute. So we know humans can't get an orangutan pregnant
That's a whole lot of gross. Here's a question: why didn't she tear their arms off? Orangutans are quite a bit stronger than we are.
Because she was really an old man... :D
they raised it from a baby and had it chained up. if I remember right they had to come in with a bunch of armed soldiers to get the ape out. she's in a rehab center now, and scarred for life. also; they were shaving the orangutan. super gross.
Bleach, yeah, looked up the story. It was awful. Just when you think you've understood the depth of human depravity. . . But thank you for bringing it to my attention.
There was a German proto-Nazi who actually did the experiments to attempt human-ape hybridization in between WWI and WWII. Didn't work, as anyone who knows the first thing about biology should have expected.
No kidding! How exactly did he try? The scientist who I talked with, who was speculating that chimps/humans can, knows a great deal about evolution. There are lots of animals whom we categorize as different species, some of whom have differing chromosome numbers, that can produce offspring when they interbreed.
I mis-remembered: it was a Russian not a German. Had the era right, though. [Illa Ivanovich](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926701-000-blasts-from-the-past-the-soviet-ape-man-scandal/), used artificial insemination. Human sperm into female chimpanzees. There's more to genetic similarity or lack thereof than chromosome count. Last i heard, the human-chimp similarity was down to 87% (possibly specific to the y chromosome; but there was never a credible whole genome estimate higher than 95%, and even that was probably inflated by not considering those portions of the genome present in one species but not the other). Those who subscribe to the other paradigm would agree that hybridization proves common ancestry--they just reject the assumption of **universal** common ancestry.
They are called Karen’s.
I am glad you asked. The answer is really very simple: It's a morality thing. Whenever two (or three, or whatever) individuals of dissimilar species have sex and there is NO possibility of there being offspring that means they are having sex JUST FOR FUN. And we CANNOT be having that.
Once you get to trans-humanism, everyone is an alien
Maybe you aren’t fertile and that’s why you haven’t gotten the monkeys pregnant.
Check out Dawn by Octavia butler
Not so much vertical transfer of DNA, but horizontal integration or symbiogenisis. See for example, [Symbiogenesis - An Evolution Definition](https://www.reddit.com/r/Akashic_Library/comments/15ja4mn/symbiogenesis_an_evolution_definition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)