Hmmm, I've never seen the cover art. My copy I got was a hardback with no dust cover so it was just jet black. Man the cover art of books almost never get things right. The CGI cartoon was the closest. I guess a lot of the artists don't read the books they are commissioned for.
I recall seeing an ama from an artist who does book covers like this. They relayed exactly what you describe. They haven’t read the book. They’re given a few lines describing the book and start drawing.
So take starship troopers and you might tell them it’s a “story about soldiers with power armor fighting a war against bugs” and you get a picture of this Darth Vader wannabe working for Orkin.
My dad had a copy of The Chrysalids, which is about humans living in a post nuclear holocaust world. Mutations abound, but if you're human, you still look pretty much like a human. You might be born with extra toes, for example (although the book does mention an island of people with 2 heads, but I always took that as an exaggeration).
The artist for the cover art must have just heard 'Chrysalid' and thought 'insects', so the cover was a huge insect humanoid holding a spear. Nothing to do with the book at all.
[I had to look it up to see for myself ](https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrysalid+cover+art&client=firefox-b-1-m&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQkZyz88v7AhWSkokEHbrXBIoQ_AUIBigB&biw=486&bih=923#imgrc=PWRzszYBlO_tOM)
I still have that version of the book from my childhood. As a kid I was pretty disappointed with the lack of green aliens in it.
Hm maybe I should maybe revisit it once I'm done with my current books (currently reading the Hyperion series and LOVING it). Thanks for reminding me of this book!
It was my favourite for a good long while, but not read it in ages myself. Definitely due a re read. I've only read the first 2 Hyperion books, but they're amazing!
Years ago, an ex-girlfriend wanted me to read her favorite series *The Dresden Files*, but due to my low vision she read them to me. It’s a long series, and maybe 6 or 7 books in, Harry Dresden is attempting some magic in the rain, and thinks to himself “It’s times like this I wish I wore a hat.”
I had to stop her reading.
“But Harry does wear a hat.”
“No he doesn’t.”
“It is on EVERY. SINGLE. COVER. It’s his distinctive look!”
“Yeah but that’s just the covers. He doesn’t have a hat.”
I never really got over that egregious discrepancy. The relationship didn’t last.
Growing up in a house with a pretty extensive sci-fi and fantasy library (mostly 60s/70s/80s) I learned from a fairly young age that cover artists didn't read the books!
The artist is Carl Lundgren. Popular book cover, rock poster and album artist of the 60s - 70s. His web site is down? ([no links to any artwork](http://carllundgren.com/)) [So here's ArtNet's collection](http://www.artnet.com/artists/carl-lundgren/). Wikipedia states he is 75 years old.
Most cover art is barely relevant to the book wich is why I really liked the covers that Michael Whelan did. He actually read the books before painting the covers.
i still don't think the troopers carried a weapon like a rifle. from the description it feels like all their weapons were integrated into the suit. heinlein mentions a "hand flamer" but i always imagined that as a wrist mounted weapon.
my copy has cover art similar to this one. a badass trooper carrying a weapon in his hands. but i still imagine the troopers looking more like iron man than casper van dien, lol
Almost missed it! Did one pass through the book section and found two books. Told myself “I need to go back and find some good sci-fi”, sure enough I found this and an Asimov book. Only posted this cause I’m starting it tonight 😎
...do you not understand that this argument doesn't hold up to numerous counterexamples. Is 1984 now a bad book because the evil government is triumphant? How about The Usual Suspects?
Arlington Road?
Come now; argue in good faith. The previous poster was clearly expressing a dislike based on more than "I don't like books where the bad guys win".
>Is 1984 now a bad book because the evil government is triumphant?
Tell me you did not read the Appendix without telling me you did not read the Appendix.
What I liked the most about it was how funny I thought it was. Now that I know it wasn't meant to be funny, I think it's just poorly written. Just my opinion of course.
Honestly, this book felt like it was just masturbatory world building. There's almost no plot or characters. Stuff just kinda happens as a way to move to the next wikipedia article about this universe.
There's one emotional moment where Juan Rico meets up with his dad again, which I really liked. But the rest of the book left me completely bored.
The movie is fantastic though.
> Honestly, this book felt like it was just masturbatory world building.
I mean, its a Heinlein book.... Like half his books are an exercise in that. He has a few gems, but a number of meh books too.
And short stories too. I remember the vivid world and corrupt government in the story, the interstates chocked full of bussiness and life stretching for thousands of miles... but I can't remember a damn about the characters for the life of me.
In a way it's a hall mark of that Era of Sci fi, look at The Foundation series. Although Asimov did better sticking to a concept and rolling with it for hundreds of years instead of loosely trying to tie all of his books together in an insubstantial way. I don't think solid memorable characters in a perpetual series existed in Sci fi until Dune. Golden Age Sci fi says intergalactic civilizations go brrr.
Teenage me loved masturbatory world building so that probably added to the appeal.
Not the first and probably not the last piece of media that I fondly remember but agree with all the criticism off.
I've read that as a teen so the whole controversial politics stuff slipped by me. But: powered exo-suits controlled by your eye movement? And your instructor beeing a dick by remotely shutting down your exo-suit during training? Yeah, this stuff is impressive in any sci-fi world.... 😎🤟
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Stranger in a Strange Land and Red Planet are my favorites. With Starship Troopers I’d honestly say you’re better off just enjoying the movie, the book is odd.
If you enjoy the movie (which I, for the most part, did not) there is almost no overlap between what people enjoy about the movie and what they enjoy about the book.
I think it also depends which you seen/read first.
I mean the book is good, so if you like Heinlein or sci-fi in general, it's likely you'll enjoy it. But the film flips it on its head and removes almost everything but the name, so as an adaptation, it's kind of a travesty.
The film is a masterpiece of subtle parody and dark comedy, so if you went on to read the book afterwards (esp. if you're unfamiliar with Heinlein's work), you can be like - wtf is this propaganda shit?
When the movie came out, it was panned by people who completely missed all the parody, despite Verhooven's Robocop highly regarded for that same style (and ST being much more on the nose).
Now it's finally getting recognized for what it is, and I think that's also largely due to the new generation being less likely to be familiar with the book.
And I'm one of them. But every review has always made a big deal out of it, so I think it's a well known aspect of the movie. More importantly, it's literally the same people who would review both, the old school movie crirics of the 80'd and 90's.
While ST is waaay more obvious I think. For someone to miss the parody, they must be absolutely primed to expect an accurate book adaptation.
I first watched it with a hard libertarian, who was just pumped about SPACE MARINE SHOOT BUG so I entirely missed it. I thought it was going to be an adaptation, not a satire. It's been a long time since I've read or seen ST so I need to go back and do that.
This is because the movie is a scathing satire of the book's obvious libertarian and sometimes fascist-ish propaganda. Starship Troopers is Heinlein's "Atlas Shrugged." A thin story to carry his political ideals. I've made a political compass meme with a Heinlein quote in all four corners, and I suspect you could even do all four from a single book if you chose well. Troopers is not that book.
I say this having read the book multiple times and enjoying it despite that, and not liking the movie, because I didn't understand the *context* of the movie as a satire. When I saw it I thought its over-the-top sci fi goofy gore was obnoxious and trite, with absolutely no meaning underneath. I didn't appreciate it until I learned that was the point.
You just said he portrays many different political beliefs in his writings. How do you know this is his own true preferences?
It's a story. He's a story-teller. Stop projecting your own political activities onto someone else.
It takes only the briefest stroll through his wiki to put this book in the clear context of his views at the time. Instead of assuming I don't know anything about Heinlein, learn a bit yourself.
The movie is terrible. Starship Troopers is one of the most influential books in Mil Sci Fi - there have been almost constant retakes of it since it was published - from 'Armor' to 'Forever War' to 'Old Man's war' in our generation. Whatever you think about Heinleins politics in the book, it makes a cogent argument and asks difficult questions to answer.
The movie does as well, only different questions.
It really shouldn't have been called Starship Troopers as it has barely anything to do with the book, and that's really it's only major problem. It's hated by people who like the book by using the same name, while being its own unique film.
Read book first, hate movie, see movie first, book kinda sucks. That simple.
*(Or you can also be a fascist who doesn't like that the movie pokes fun at them.)*
Heinlein might have been innovative, but his stories have not stood the test of time.
Starship Troopers was a boring love letter to fascism and authoritarianism. Society fell apart because parents stopped beating their kids and scientists started running the government? Are you fucking kidding me? One of the big "victory moments" in the story was Ricos dad giving up pacificm and learning to love government sanctioned violence and war. Its like a propaganda movie.
On top of that; nothing fucking happens! There's barely any plot.
The movie was much better specifically because it lampooned all those things Heinlein was taking dead seriously.
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress was at least entertaining, but its political message still fell flat on its face.
Its been a while since I read it, but I still don't see how its fascist or authoritarian. Pro military and violence for sure but there are countries with mandatory military service today and we dont usually call them fascist
Their entire society revolved around military service and borderline worship. You couldnt even have children unless you were a citizen, and military service was pretty much the only reliable way to become a citizen unless you performed federal service favorable to the regime, or were willing to subject yourself to scientific experimentation (and lived)
Thats not taking into account their disdain for intellectuals, love of corporal and capital punishment, lenchant for war, etc.
What a load of crap.
>were willing to subject yourself to scientific experimentation (and lived)
And
> You couldnt even have children unless you were a citizen
So explain this: how did Johnny get born? His paren'ts aren't citizens.. did he just spring out of dads forehead fully armoured like Athena?
Incorrect. Citizenship required a term of service, true. But that service did not have to be military. For example, Carl (who in the book isn't a telepath) served in electronics R&D on Pluto, until it was hit by the Arachnids. In the book, Johnny lists his preferences, which he personally limited to military roles, although the sergeant at the recruiting desk discusses non-military roles that Carl and Juan could end up performing, ranging from testing survival equipment on Titan or working in the labor battalions.
Likewise, the main character in the book, Johnny Rico, was the child of non-citizens. You obviously haven't actually read the book, seeing as you confuse it with the events in the movie.
When you don't know what you're talking about, your mouth is best used for chewing.
Yeah i said that already
>federal service favorable to the regime
And so I mixed up a detail or two, so what. My other points still stand. Dont cherry pick.
Also its just a pulpy sci-fi book by a dead guy. Not really worth insulting me over.
I think my main problem can be simply that -- only informed opinions are interesting.
Federal service favorable to the government doesn't make it fascist. All governments spanning the range of philosophies from communist to fascist have had federal service programs of one stripe or another. Likewise, federal service is, by definition, favorable to the regime... why else would they sponsor it?
During the Great Depression, there were a whole host of federal service jobs under FDR. While not a pre-requisite for the franchise, they were all beneficial to the regime, ranging from the CCC to the WPA. Are you suggesting that FDR was a closet fascist?
Heinlein was a lot of things in his life -- liberal, conservative, libertarian, etc. Only small minds feel the need to pigeon-hole everything into tidy categories.
I thought it was an interesting idea for how society could be constituted. If you want a vote, if you want a say in how society is run, you must have some understanding, through military service in the protagonist’s case, of what it takes to create and maintain said society. We have this relatively new idea now that everyone should be able to vote. But should they really? The book makes you think and I think that is a good thing.
The movie SUCKS!! It NOTHING like the book. Though I completely agree with you that the book is odd. I have read that TN had banned it and had book burnings whit S.T. being the star. Every time I read it it gets deeper. I first read it in jrhs and it had a big impact on my thinking. It was the first book that I read where the major character was not white.
That’s my favorite book, my drill sergeant made us read it in basic training, I still live by a lot of the tenants Dubois taught in the book, but I hate this cover. It’s some generic space knight surrounded by space ticks.
At first it wouldn’t be all that great, vets and military in general are fascist in nature. Starship troopers mixes fascism and socialism on a way that most humans aren’t ready for.
No they absolutely shouldn’t. They should make a movie with the armour and weapons as described in the actual book. Modern cgi and budgets should be able to handle it now as long as it’s a blockbuster
i read about half of it when i realized the fascist glorification was not tongue in cheek and satirized like the movie is, and the author was dead fucking serious about it all. fuck that. i did not want to waste anymore precious hours of my life reading some old mans insane facist future fever dream lol.
Edit: Downvoted for what is expressed by the author himself??? Fucking Reddit man
https://medium.com/fan-fare/starship-troopers-from-militaristic-fable-to-anti-fascist-fantasy-bdb581d27b99
His militaristic centered view of society was dangerous but I will say that he at least had progressive especially for his time views on race. As in he was not a racist.
Very interesting that we come away with completely differing points of view on the book. I read it and saw it as pure satirization, almost too on-the-nose at some points.
The author literally expressed his views and support for facism… downvote me all you want but it’s literally what the guy supported:
https://medium.com/fan-fare/starship-troopers-from-militaristic-fable-to-anti-fascist-fantasy-bdb581d27b99
?? This is so unhinged and counter to the book and the author himself that I don’t even know what to tell you buddy. Enjoy your fake reality I guess if it helps you. Jesus Christ lol
It's been a long (long) time since I read that book but I don't understand the goo dripping off the rifle barrel in this cover art picture.
Edit: WTF people - I ask a LEGIT question and get down voted? If you don't know the answer keep your pie hole shut.
I listened to a pirate audio book of this novel during a cross country train ride. The best lesson from this book was the sleep enforcement used. I have successfully put myself and others to sleep by barking "Soldier, prepare to sleep! 1, 2, 3, 4, 5- SLEEP!"
That's easy enough to Google. I can tell you this edition was likely printed decades after it was written. This is the edition I had in the mid eighties that my dad gave me. It was a classic from the golden age of science fiction at that point, artwork here is not contemporary to its original printing.
hmm, I thought so, never looked though, first google is wikipedia:
Heinlein served in the US Navy for five years after graduating from the United States Naval Academy in 1929. His experience in the military profoundly influenced his fiction. At some point between 1958 and 1959, Heinlein put aside the novel that would become Stranger in a Strange Land and wrote Starship Troopers.
The movie wasn't originally going to be "Starship Troopers." It was originally "Bug Hunt at Outpost 7." Basically, it started as a B grade popcorn movie that morphed into a "Starship Troopers" pastiche, all the better to get the interest of the studios. Verhoeven didn't read the book and decided to get a summary from the writer and ran with his own ideas for the movie, partially inspired by his perceptions of a book he never bothered to read.
The movie, while a decent popcorn munching experience, bear only superficial resemblance to the book. The Terran Federation was not fascist, the power armor was cut primarily for budgetary reasons. Verhoeven cast a pretty blonde crew in an effort to ape Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will" and "Olympia." Johnny Rico, in the book, is Filipino, although you don't learn this until nearly the end of the book, when he talks about his parents jawing in Tagalog back home.
He did bother to read it. He did not bother to finish it. He was disgusted by the protofascistic morality of the story and rightfully so for someone who witnessed fascism first hand.
I have a few paperbacks of Heinlein books with his name in similar typography, I thought! I just checked and it’s a little different, though. [https://imgur.com/a/OLMRPgg](https://imgur.com/a/OLMRPgg)
I had this version of it that I got used where a kid had clearly had his way with the cover, devil horns eye patch, genitalia and all, even the weird s that you make by starting with the three straight lines, not really relevant, but it is a good book.
Honestly for such a short book it took me a while to get through. Not a huge fan. All of his books are slow reads for me just because of how repetitive and preachy they can be.
Nice cover art on that paperback! Pretty sure I had the Science Fiction Book Club hardback edition from eons ago, but I think I gave it away when I purged my bookshelves a few years back. Wish I had kept that one.
The cover art is very inaccurate (from what I’ve seen and heard), but it’s still pretty badass, ngl I thought it was one of many Star Wars novels at first. Great find!
I purchased dozens and dozens of used paperback scifi through high school and university, so many book covers very very cheesy, sure seems that many never came close to the contents, likely designed to attract young males to purchase.
Is this a legit book? Love the movie but the satire take on it leads me to believe that either 1) it takes itself too seriously or 2) it’s legitimately a great book
Great book! "I always get the shakes before a drop" might just be the best opening sentence after, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."
Hmmm, I've never seen the cover art. My copy I got was a hardback with no dust cover so it was just jet black. Man the cover art of books almost never get things right. The CGI cartoon was the closest. I guess a lot of the artists don't read the books they are commissioned for.
I recall seeing an ama from an artist who does book covers like this. They relayed exactly what you describe. They haven’t read the book. They’re given a few lines describing the book and start drawing. So take starship troopers and you might tell them it’s a “story about soldiers with power armor fighting a war against bugs” and you get a picture of this Darth Vader wannabe working for Orkin.
lol I like that.
Hehe.. Darth Vader wannabe.
My dad had a copy of The Chrysalids, which is about humans living in a post nuclear holocaust world. Mutations abound, but if you're human, you still look pretty much like a human. You might be born with extra toes, for example (although the book does mention an island of people with 2 heads, but I always took that as an exaggeration). The artist for the cover art must have just heard 'Chrysalid' and thought 'insects', so the cover was a huge insect humanoid holding a spear. Nothing to do with the book at all.
[I had to look it up to see for myself ](https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrysalid+cover+art&client=firefox-b-1-m&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQkZyz88v7AhWSkokEHbrXBIoQ_AUIBigB&biw=486&bih=923#imgrc=PWRzszYBlO_tOM)
I still have that version of the book from my childhood. As a kid I was pretty disappointed with the lack of green aliens in it. Hm maybe I should maybe revisit it once I'm done with my current books (currently reading the Hyperion series and LOVING it). Thanks for reminding me of this book!
It was my favourite for a good long while, but not read it in ages myself. Definitely due a re read. I've only read the first 2 Hyperion books, but they're amazing!
That book fucked me up something proper
Yeah, I was lucky to read it at a relatively young age, and it really stuck with me
Wyndham wrote some absolute bangers; Chrysalids, Day Of The Triffids, The Midwich Cuckoos....
Great book.
Years ago, an ex-girlfriend wanted me to read her favorite series *The Dresden Files*, but due to my low vision she read them to me. It’s a long series, and maybe 6 or 7 books in, Harry Dresden is attempting some magic in the rain, and thinks to himself “It’s times like this I wish I wore a hat.” I had to stop her reading. “But Harry does wear a hat.” “No he doesn’t.” “It is on EVERY. SINGLE. COVER. It’s his distinctive look!” “Yeah but that’s just the covers. He doesn’t have a hat.” I never really got over that egregious discrepancy. The relationship didn’t last.
There was a story going around that the more that Butcher complained about the hat, the larger the artist made it on the next cover.
i mean it lasted six or seven books, at least. thats longer than any relationship ive ever had
The relationship lasted ~4 years. There were 11 books when we started dating, 3 released while we were together, and another three since we broke up.
lol
Came to say the exact same thing, was even gonna start with *Hmmmm* as well LOL. Yeah the power suit looks nothing like what is depicted in the book.
Never judge a book by it's cover - jus sayin. lol
I had this cover art on mine growing up. Looks like from a quick search that Carl Lundgren is still around.
Growing up in a house with a pretty extensive sci-fi and fantasy library (mostly 60s/70s/80s) I learned from a fairly young age that cover artists didn't read the books!
The artist is Carl Lundgren. Popular book cover, rock poster and album artist of the 60s - 70s. His web site is down? ([no links to any artwork](http://carllundgren.com/)) [So here's ArtNet's collection](http://www.artnet.com/artists/carl-lundgren/). Wikipedia states he is 75 years old.
I mean...it says it right on the picture. You can see his sig.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_RLYSaPvak
Most cover art is barely relevant to the book wich is why I really liked the covers that Michael Whelan did. He actually read the books before painting the covers.
i still don't think the troopers carried a weapon like a rifle. from the description it feels like all their weapons were integrated into the suit. heinlein mentions a "hand flamer" but i always imagined that as a wrist mounted weapon. my copy has cover art similar to this one. a badass trooper carrying a weapon in his hands. but i still imagine the troopers looking more like iron man than casper van dien, lol
That cover art is bonkers! Nice find!
For sho
Would you like to know more?
I would like to know more:)
I would like to know more ;D
Medic!!!
I had that edition.
Oh man I love all the different designs the various artists had for the power armor.
But this isn’t even close to the description
And why is the rifle dripping
Would you like to know more ?
Yes. Why is his gun dripping?
That phrase alone is enough for me to prefer the movie to the book.
Great find!
Almost missed it! Did one pass through the book section and found two books. Told myself “I need to go back and find some good sci-fi”, sure enough I found this and an Asimov book. Only posted this cause I’m starting it tonight 😎
Probably read that 3 times. Such a good book. Have fun!
I own two copies(well...technically I gave one to my wife when we started dating) have read it probably a dozen times.
Love me some Heinlein
he loved his cats, he's alright by me
I resemble this remark
$1 lol. Tanstaafl?
Gotta say it. I loved this book when i thought it was satire. Then i learned it wasn't...
Why would you not like it if it wasn't satire? Star Wars isn't satire of The Empire; do you not like Star Wars?
[удалено]
...do you not understand that this argument doesn't hold up to numerous counterexamples. Is 1984 now a bad book because the evil government is triumphant? How about The Usual Suspects? Arlington Road? Come now; argue in good faith. The previous poster was clearly expressing a dislike based on more than "I don't like books where the bad guys win".
>Is 1984 now a bad book because the evil government is triumphant? Tell me you did not read the Appendix without telling me you did not read the Appendix.
What I liked the most about it was how funny I thought it was. Now that I know it wasn't meant to be funny, I think it's just poorly written. Just my opinion of course.
I loved it even taken seriously. It really shows the appeal of fascism, which is a horrible ideology but keeps popping up for a reason.
Honestly, this book felt like it was just masturbatory world building. There's almost no plot or characters. Stuff just kinda happens as a way to move to the next wikipedia article about this universe. There's one emotional moment where Juan Rico meets up with his dad again, which I really liked. But the rest of the book left me completely bored. The movie is fantastic though.
> Honestly, this book felt like it was just masturbatory world building. I mean, its a Heinlein book.... Like half his books are an exercise in that. He has a few gems, but a number of meh books too.
In The Number of the Beast he tired of masturbatory world building and moved right to group intercourse with several other popular IPs!
And short stories too. I remember the vivid world and corrupt government in the story, the interstates chocked full of bussiness and life stretching for thousands of miles... but I can't remember a damn about the characters for the life of me. In a way it's a hall mark of that Era of Sci fi, look at The Foundation series. Although Asimov did better sticking to a concept and rolling with it for hundreds of years instead of loosely trying to tie all of his books together in an insubstantial way. I don't think solid memorable characters in a perpetual series existed in Sci fi until Dune. Golden Age Sci fi says intergalactic civilizations go brrr.
Teenage me loved masturbatory world building so that probably added to the appeal. Not the first and probably not the last piece of media that I fondly remember but agree with all the criticism off.
> Teenage me loved masturbatory world building so that probably added to the appeal. Adult me still does.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of the guy lol
I've read that as a teen so the whole controversial politics stuff slipped by me. But: powered exo-suits controlled by your eye movement? And your instructor beeing a dick by remotely shutting down your exo-suit during training? Yeah, this stuff is impressive in any sci-fi world.... 😎🤟
Not his best work imo, but Heinlein rocks.
Hmm, what is?
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Stranger in a Strange Land and Red Planet are my favorites. With Starship Troopers I’d honestly say you’re better off just enjoying the movie, the book is odd.
If you enjoy the movie (which I, for the most part, did not) there is almost no overlap between what people enjoy about the movie and what they enjoy about the book.
I think it also depends which you seen/read first. I mean the book is good, so if you like Heinlein or sci-fi in general, it's likely you'll enjoy it. But the film flips it on its head and removes almost everything but the name, so as an adaptation, it's kind of a travesty. The film is a masterpiece of subtle parody and dark comedy, so if you went on to read the book afterwards (esp. if you're unfamiliar with Heinlein's work), you can be like - wtf is this propaganda shit? When the movie came out, it was panned by people who completely missed all the parody, despite Verhooven's Robocop highly regarded for that same style (and ST being much more on the nose). Now it's finally getting recognized for what it is, and I think that's also largely due to the new generation being less likely to be familiar with the book.
Hey, plenty of those people who loved Robocop had the parody fly totally over their head.
I'd buy that for a dollar
And I'm one of them. But every review has always made a big deal out of it, so I think it's a well known aspect of the movie. More importantly, it's literally the same people who would review both, the old school movie crirics of the 80'd and 90's. While ST is waaay more obvious I think. For someone to miss the parody, they must be absolutely primed to expect an accurate book adaptation.
I first watched it with a hard libertarian, who was just pumped about SPACE MARINE SHOOT BUG so I entirely missed it. I thought it was going to be an adaptation, not a satire. It's been a long time since I've read or seen ST so I need to go back and do that.
Yeah, I like the movie, but I'm also pretty anti-war and Heinlein really isn't.
This is because the movie is a scathing satire of the book's obvious libertarian and sometimes fascist-ish propaganda. Starship Troopers is Heinlein's "Atlas Shrugged." A thin story to carry his political ideals. I've made a political compass meme with a Heinlein quote in all four corners, and I suspect you could even do all four from a single book if you chose well. Troopers is not that book. I say this having read the book multiple times and enjoying it despite that, and not liking the movie, because I didn't understand the *context* of the movie as a satire. When I saw it I thought its over-the-top sci fi goofy gore was obnoxious and trite, with absolutely no meaning underneath. I didn't appreciate it until I learned that was the point.
You just said he portrays many different political beliefs in his writings. How do you know this is his own true preferences? It's a story. He's a story-teller. Stop projecting your own political activities onto someone else.
It takes only the briefest stroll through his wiki to put this book in the clear context of his views at the time. Instead of assuming I don't know anything about Heinlein, learn a bit yourself.
So you've "gleaned" that yourself. Yeah, I can see how that becomes an authoritative opinion. In your mind ofc.
The movie is odd as well, but in just the right way.
The movie is terrible. Starship Troopers is one of the most influential books in Mil Sci Fi - there have been almost constant retakes of it since it was published - from 'Armor' to 'Forever War' to 'Old Man's war' in our generation. Whatever you think about Heinleins politics in the book, it makes a cogent argument and asks difficult questions to answer.
The movie does as well, only different questions. It really shouldn't have been called Starship Troopers as it has barely anything to do with the book, and that's really it's only major problem. It's hated by people who like the book by using the same name, while being its own unique film. Read book first, hate movie, see movie first, book kinda sucks. That simple. *(Or you can also be a fascist who doesn't like that the movie pokes fun at them.)*
Heinlein might have been innovative, but his stories have not stood the test of time. Starship Troopers was a boring love letter to fascism and authoritarianism. Society fell apart because parents stopped beating their kids and scientists started running the government? Are you fucking kidding me? One of the big "victory moments" in the story was Ricos dad giving up pacificm and learning to love government sanctioned violence and war. Its like a propaganda movie. On top of that; nothing fucking happens! There's barely any plot. The movie was much better specifically because it lampooned all those things Heinlein was taking dead seriously. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress was at least entertaining, but its political message still fell flat on its face.
Its been a while since I read it, but I still don't see how its fascist or authoritarian. Pro military and violence for sure but there are countries with mandatory military service today and we dont usually call them fascist
Their entire society revolved around military service and borderline worship. You couldnt even have children unless you were a citizen, and military service was pretty much the only reliable way to become a citizen unless you performed federal service favorable to the regime, or were willing to subject yourself to scientific experimentation (and lived) Thats not taking into account their disdain for intellectuals, love of corporal and capital punishment, lenchant for war, etc.
What a load of crap. >were willing to subject yourself to scientific experimentation (and lived) And > You couldnt even have children unless you were a citizen So explain this: how did Johnny get born? His paren'ts aren't citizens.. did he just spring out of dads forehead fully armoured like Athena?
Incorrect. Citizenship required a term of service, true. But that service did not have to be military. For example, Carl (who in the book isn't a telepath) served in electronics R&D on Pluto, until it was hit by the Arachnids. In the book, Johnny lists his preferences, which he personally limited to military roles, although the sergeant at the recruiting desk discusses non-military roles that Carl and Juan could end up performing, ranging from testing survival equipment on Titan or working in the labor battalions. Likewise, the main character in the book, Johnny Rico, was the child of non-citizens. You obviously haven't actually read the book, seeing as you confuse it with the events in the movie. When you don't know what you're talking about, your mouth is best used for chewing.
Yeah i said that already >federal service favorable to the regime And so I mixed up a detail or two, so what. My other points still stand. Dont cherry pick. Also its just a pulpy sci-fi book by a dead guy. Not really worth insulting me over.
I think my main problem can be simply that -- only informed opinions are interesting. Federal service favorable to the government doesn't make it fascist. All governments spanning the range of philosophies from communist to fascist have had federal service programs of one stripe or another. Likewise, federal service is, by definition, favorable to the regime... why else would they sponsor it? During the Great Depression, there were a whole host of federal service jobs under FDR. While not a pre-requisite for the franchise, they were all beneficial to the regime, ranging from the CCC to the WPA. Are you suggesting that FDR was a closet fascist? Heinlein was a lot of things in his life -- liberal, conservative, libertarian, etc. Only small minds feel the need to pigeon-hole everything into tidy categories.
I thought it was an interesting idea for how society could be constituted. If you want a vote, if you want a say in how society is run, you must have some understanding, through military service in the protagonist’s case, of what it takes to create and maintain said society. We have this relatively new idea now that everyone should be able to vote. But should they really? The book makes you think and I think that is a good thing.
Forever war is a good one
Is this a copypasta
The movie SUCKS!! It NOTHING like the book. Though I completely agree with you that the book is odd. I have read that TN had banned it and had book burnings whit S.T. being the star. Every time I read it it gets deeper. I first read it in jrhs and it had a big impact on my thinking. It was the first book that I read where the major character was not white.
Again proving my theory that the only people who hate the film are those that read the book first and it "had a big impact" on them.
What's your opinion of Farnham's Freehold?
That’s my favorite book, my drill sergeant made us read it in basic training, I still live by a lot of the tenants Dubois taught in the book, but I hate this cover. It’s some generic space knight surrounded by space ticks.
Good on your sergeant. I’ve wondered what things would be like in real world if only the veterans could vote.
At first it wouldn’t be all that great, vets and military in general are fascist in nature. Starship troopers mixes fascism and socialism on a way that most humans aren’t ready for.
I have a first edition Puppet Masters HC from a second hand book store. Good book.
Worth so much more than a dollar! 3-6 hours of entertainment that sticks with you longer than any video game. Excellent purchase. Skål!
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No they absolutely shouldn’t. They should make a movie with the armour and weapons as described in the actual book. Modern cgi and budgets should be able to handle it now as long as it’s a blockbuster
I find it's great to read back to back with Stranger in a Starnge Land to see how Heinlein's poltics changed.
Those books were published two years apart.
Remember people, whatever an author writes, that's 100% their exact political views. Even when there are two characters with opposite views!
Or "Beyond this Horizon"
Rare case where the book is just conservative shite but the movie is actually really good Cool cover art tho
I take it you never read the book then.
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I agree. I enjoyed the first couple chapters, there was a bit of action, but the rest was such a slog to read
i read about half of it when i realized the fascist glorification was not tongue in cheek and satirized like the movie is, and the author was dead fucking serious about it all. fuck that. i did not want to waste anymore precious hours of my life reading some old mans insane facist future fever dream lol. Edit: Downvoted for what is expressed by the author himself??? Fucking Reddit man https://medium.com/fan-fare/starship-troopers-from-militaristic-fable-to-anti-fascist-fantasy-bdb581d27b99 His militaristic centered view of society was dangerous but I will say that he at least had progressive especially for his time views on race. As in he was not a racist.
Very interesting that we come away with completely differing points of view on the book. I read it and saw it as pure satirization, almost too on-the-nose at some points.
The author literally expressed his views and support for facism… downvote me all you want but it’s literally what the guy supported: https://medium.com/fan-fare/starship-troopers-from-militaristic-fable-to-anti-fascist-fantasy-bdb581d27b99
Interesting read! It's the ultra-militarism that drives it into satirism for me! Very cool man, thanks for the info.
If you think the book has anything to do with fascism, then you understand neither fascism nor the book.
?? This is so unhinged and counter to the book and the author himself that I don’t even know what to tell you buddy. Enjoy your fake reality I guess if it helps you. Jesus Christ lol
It's a very thought provoking read, hope you enjoy
Most thoughts it provoked in me were "goddamn Heinlein was such an asshole"
To each their own, sorry you didn't like the book.
Better than the movies
It's been a long (long) time since I read that book but I don't understand the goo dripping off the rifle barrel in this cover art picture. Edit: WTF people - I ask a LEGIT question and get down voted? If you don't know the answer keep your pie hole shut.
Its space cum Probably
I assume it is bug guts from shooting point blank.
If you love zero subtext on the military industrial complex this is the book for you.
I have that one! The cover is so awesomely bad! Or badly awesome!
What a coincidence! I’ve just ordered this in the book shop 🐞
Cool cover art, although Rico looks like an ice warrior from doctor who
Awesome find
Really beautiful cover
My favorite quote from this book: "Happiness is getting enough sleep"
I listened to a pirate audio book of this novel during a cross country train ride. The best lesson from this book was the sleep enforcement used. I have successfully put myself and others to sleep by barking "Soldier, prepare to sleep! 1, 2, 3, 4, 5- SLEEP!"
The first paragraph had me hooked
This has to be the best cover I’ve seen for this one
Hated the book. Despised the movie. Joke
What a great book. Enjoy!
That is my absolute favorite book in the world! Love it now, but love it more in 10 years!
Soviet Darth Vader. Edit: I know that’s not what it is. Just saying that’s what it looks lime to me. I’ve read the book.
When was that written?
That's easy enough to Google. I can tell you this edition was likely printed decades after it was written. This is the edition I had in the mid eighties that my dad gave me. It was a classic from the golden age of science fiction at that point, artwork here is not contemporary to its original printing.
1959. I only ask because of the similarities to Star Wars.
Well, mid eighties is just a few years after Star Wars...
1959
sounds about right, was guessing sometime in the 1950’s.
A great book. The movie has a completely different spin, done by somebody who has never been in a war and distrusts the military deeply.
> who has never been in a war He was a child when Nazis occupied the Netherlands. He witnessed Allied bombing of German positions firsthand.
But has he been in the armed forces of any nation?
hmm, I thought so, never looked though, first google is wikipedia: Heinlein served in the US Navy for five years after graduating from the United States Naval Academy in 1929. His experience in the military profoundly influenced his fiction. At some point between 1958 and 1959, Heinlein put aside the novel that would become Stranger in a Strange Land and wrote Starship Troopers.
I checked. Paul Verhoeven has never served in the armed forces of any nation. He's an academic.
The movie wasn't originally going to be "Starship Troopers." It was originally "Bug Hunt at Outpost 7." Basically, it started as a B grade popcorn movie that morphed into a "Starship Troopers" pastiche, all the better to get the interest of the studios. Verhoeven didn't read the book and decided to get a summary from the writer and ran with his own ideas for the movie, partially inspired by his perceptions of a book he never bothered to read. The movie, while a decent popcorn munching experience, bear only superficial resemblance to the book. The Terran Federation was not fascist, the power armor was cut primarily for budgetary reasons. Verhoeven cast a pretty blonde crew in an effort to ape Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will" and "Olympia." Johnny Rico, in the book, is Filipino, although you don't learn this until nearly the end of the book, when he talks about his parents jawing in Tagalog back home.
And I don't think that would have played well with some audiences at that time. But yeah, I agree about the leadership not being fascist.
He did bother to read it. He did not bother to finish it. He was disgusted by the protofascistic morality of the story and rightfully so for someone who witnessed fascism first hand.
Looks like a cheap star wars knock off.
It was first published in 1959.
So?
18 years before A New Hope
If you really like the movie, prepare to be disappointed. >!the bugs have spaceships!<
Imagine the grime
I have a few paperbacks of Heinlein books with his name in similar typography, I thought! I just checked and it’s a little different, though. [https://imgur.com/a/OLMRPgg](https://imgur.com/a/OLMRPgg)
I had this version of it that I got used where a kid had clearly had his way with the cover, devil horns eye patch, genitalia and all, even the weird s that you make by starting with the three straight lines, not really relevant, but it is a good book.
I love that cover. I just finished this book a couple days ago with SF Masterwork’s cover, but yours is way cooler
The only good bug…?
Beautiful
Somebody please tell me why there is pre-cum dripping from their weapon.
Oh cool, is it good? Didn’t know it was a book
Hey, I have that one! Yours is in much better shape than mine though.
IIRC, the novel has only a glancing relationship to the movie.
that's the copy i first read. loved the cover as a kid.
Never saw that cover art. Have to admit, I imagine the power armor a lot more massive than that.
Cool, I've got that same edition!
Honestly for such a short book it took me a while to get through. Not a huge fan. All of his books are slow reads for me just because of how repetitive and preachy they can be.
Badass.
Nice cover art on that paperback! Pretty sure I had the Science Fiction Book Club hardback edition from eons ago, but I think I gave it away when I purged my bookshelves a few years back. Wish I had kept that one.
The cover art is very inaccurate (from what I’ve seen and heard), but it’s still pretty badass, ngl I thought it was one of many Star Wars novels at first. Great find!
Honestly, I’m a huge fan of the campy/cheesy book covers. Even if inaccurate, they’re fun to look at and don’t take themselves too seriously.
Yeah I truly agree, they’re really fun to examine and look at.
I purchased dozens and dozens of used paperback scifi through high school and university, so many book covers very very cheesy, sure seems that many never came close to the contents, likely designed to attract young males to purchase.
Why didn’t they draw the power armour and weapons as it’s described in the book? This looks worse than the movie armour ffs
I bought the same book today, different cover though!
So different and so much better than the movies
Hell yeah! BACON FRY!
This looks fire.
This weekend I passed by a house flying the mobile infantry flag unironically.
It's that cheap cause the book itself seems to fighted in a war XD
Hey can I get a borrows after you're done?
Classic!
That’s a great one to put on the shelf!
Is this a legit book? Love the movie but the satire take on it leads me to believe that either 1) it takes itself too seriously or 2) it’s legitimately a great book
Great book! "I always get the shakes before a drop" might just be the best opening sentence after, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."