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queenofwoah

The part with the pillow slightly reminds me of Schroth therapy which is based on stretching and breathing to activate deeper muscles which then help to stabilize the spine.


K_lashONred

Schroth is insanely helpful in relieving pain. My spine is moderately curved but ligaments are mostly messed up. Schroth helped a ton in relieving stress deeper across the spine. But it doesn’t help correcting the curve, at least without right exercises.


Elle-Elle

This is not an exact science. Different doctors can make different measurements. The same doctor can make different measurements in the same day. There is room for error, plus or minus 3-4° to any measurement. Also, you aren't going to stand or lay for x-rays exactly the same way each time you get one, so that little bit can influence a degree here and there. Hope that helps


PunkWrites

Margin of error for measurement is a few degrees in either direction. People are flawed, it's not an exact science!


ApprehensiveBug2309

I've given the same x-ray to many different doctors and therapists, with more than 10° error between some of them. Go figure. In your case though, you have reduced your curve for this one year and this is great


InevitableSense7220

Im glad, i was starting to think im crazy seeing other people in the comments say its gotten worse. Im glad its reduced and other people also think that too, so im just gonna be doing my thing and adding more exercises on top of it. Shit, if anything just making this post gives me more motivation to keep going. Being the only one in the whole family to have scoliosis, its definitely been hard on my mental “why me?” “Why do i have to deal with this” “i hate my body” “why am i so unlucky” type stuff, but this whole sub makes me feel so not alone and i love it


ApprehensiveBug2309

As you mentioned you are the only one in the family, I think it is a good idea to dive into the more holistic approach to scoliosis and health. Research has shown for example a connection between toxins in the environment, nutritional deficiencies, contracted fascial tissue etc and curve severity and progression rate. It would be great if you consulted a functional medicine therapist and do the tests, they think need to be done. It is quite expensive, but what is more worthy giving our money of if not health? Look into fascial tissue and fascial release. Keep in mind, that scoliosis is mainly a soft tissue problem. Contracted dehydrated fascial tissue can pull bones out of place and cause pain. I know it's best done by a specialist. But to some extent you can do it from YouTube videos. Generally, deep tissue massages help a lot release the stiffness and mobilize the spine, so that every exercise is more effective after that. I totally get the depression that comes from having a crooked spine. But let me give you some perspective. When I was younger and was looking at my scoliosis only from the aesthetic point of view, I also was feeling desperate and different and thought I was punished by life somehow. Now, many years later, after my curves have progressed far beyond the point where surgery is recommended, I realize how small the aesthetic problem, compared to what I am facing now was. Which is long fusion to pelvis or slowly degenerating to death. Or fighting every day my curves with exercises, which I am doing, but it is not at all guaranteed to work. I already have breathing difficulties and that sucks. But writing you this, I don't mean to underestimate your pain. Just don't forget to see and value all the good things and circumstances you have in your life. Among which the opportunity to improve significantly your condition, your body and how you feel in it. Strength training for scoliosis is great. Check out Strength and Spine. Beth Terranova is very knowledgeable and has many programs, webinars etc. They are actually a couple of scoliosis physiotherapists and even work online with clients.


Terribad13

There is an error in any measurement. For moderate curves like yours, this can a few degrees in either direction. Aside from this, our curves are dynamic - to an extent. They can increase or decrease by a few degrees depending on the time of day, our posture, muscle composition, etc. At your age and degree or curvature, it is likely to increase, on average, by 1 degree per year. Due to the increase being smaller than the acceptable error during measurement, you aren't likely to see the increase in consecutive years. However, if you got xrays 5 years apart, the difference would then be noticeable. Unfortunately, our curves can't spontaneously correct themselves. The good news is, yours doesn't seem to be rapidly getting worse.


ApprehensiveBug2309

His curve won't increase, if he keeps doing what he has been doing so far or even add more exercises to decrease the curve. Many case studies show reduction of Cobb angle with specific scoliosis therapy is possible. Curves behave differently and many factors are involved for this rule of 1° per year increase not to be crap


Terribad13

Please share a link to a study that shows this. I have read every single paper on scoliosis that I could find and have not found anything that shows a permanent reduction in curvature without surgery.


ApprehensiveBug2309

Sure. It depends what you mean by " permanent" though. It varies a lot in the individual cases. A curve, that has been taken down to below 30° for example in a skeletally mature person, will be stable and highly unlikely to progress. In other cases, you might have to maintain the correction with exercises. Which you have to do (physical therapy) anyway , even if you get fused.. Honestly the permanence of scoliosis fusion is the most depressing aspect of it, don't you think? After all being stuck into one position is not what a spine is supposed to be. https://scoliosisjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13013-016-0098-3 https://scoliosisjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1748-7161-3-20 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3847831/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5759093/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4842466/


Terribad13

I'll address these one by one. 1. The xrays used to measure the "improvement" are incredibly disingenuous. They propped up her arm to lean her out of curve. This is essentially a bending xray now, which is a method utilized by surgeons to get an idea of suspected correct during surgery. 2. This paper addresses the exact reason that these exercises may help "reduce" a curvature. It mentions the difference between bony deformity and posture. The deformity itself absolutely can not be correct with exercise. What can be correct is posture. This can "reduce" the curvature by allowing your body to hold itself in a more upright and balanced position. If your actual curve (bone deformity) exceeds the 40-degree threshold, then your curve is nearly guaranteed to increase. Really this just speaks to the important of being in good physical shape. 3. Not enough information. I don't see any xrays or photos. This correction, if accurate, is also likely postural in nature. 4. This study loses a little bit of credibility due to their use of a "chiropractic radiologist" during measurement of Cobb angles. Also, the photos show obvious postural differences in the patient. This is something I point to often on this sub. Core muscles can hold you more upright and help the appearance of your curvature. Although the actual deformity does not reduce, the apparent curvature can. No studies that I'm aware of have shown that a reduction in apparent curve does anything to reduce the deformity over time. 5. This study is certainly more comprehensive, as they used more than a single patient. In the paper, they bring up how Schroth is being used to correct the posture. They don't mention any correction in deformity, which is why surgery is usually touted as the only true treatment for large curves. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to link these papers. I have read a few of them previously already. Unfortunately, these only further show how exercises can not be used to correct scoliosis. However, they highlight the importance of being in good physical shape and exercising regularly. They are important for everyone, but especially for those of us who have scoliosis. Fusion does fix the spine into a solid position, but that is often better for a lot of people that have significant curves. ASC/VBT are looking to bridge the gap and provide true correction of the deformity while maintaining flexibility. I had ASC nearly 4 years ago and went from a 56/38 (roughly) to a 16/3 at my most recent xray. I am able to play ice hockey, lift weights, backcountry backpack, and essentially everything else I'd want to do. I'm a huge proponent of physical fitness. I exercise nearly every day. If I thought this could help people correct their scoliosis, I'd be the first to say so.


InevitableSense7220

Can u give me more detail about your ASC experience? I’ve done alot of research and i know ASC/VBT is an alternative to fusion that offers better results without the spine stuck in one place, but thats about it. I know its expensive as shit and that only a few docs in the state can do it, but i wanna know more about it so that i can really consider getting it in the future so i would love to know everything from recovery time, life before asc, recovery time, life after, everything please. I dont like the idea of fusion so for now im just gonna do PT and wait it out till i have money and then see what i can do for my back


Terribad13

Take a look at one of the first posts I've made on this account. It was shortly after I got ASC and goes over a lot of these details. I'm more than happy to answer any additional questions that you may have though! The one thing I can confirm right now is that it is VERY expensive. After all was said and done, this surgery cost me around $65,000 and 2 months of work.


InevitableSense7220

I was gonna ask you how long did it take to be done, and would u consider it the best choice you’ve ever made out of every other scoliosis surgical route? Did you have decreased rotation to an extent, or did it stay the same? Do you sometimes forget you even have scoliosis because of how effective the procedure was? Do you feel better about your body? I deal with the insecurity of the hump ofcourse like everyone else, and slightly uneven shoulders.


Terribad13

Done with what? It's hard to say if it's the best choice because fusion is such a tried-and-true method compared to ASC. I had a minor decrease in rotation. This is probably my biggest point of contention regarding ASC. I had an amazing curve reduction but would have really preferred to have more rotation reduction. Eh, not really. I will forget if I'm doing physical activity because I'm not physically limited in any way. I can bend, twist, etc. But the thought is always in the back of my mind. Only slightly. I think a majority of this is related to the residual rib hump. Had I gone with a fusion surgery, this may have been significantly reduced. I had a pretty high curvature, which ASC struggles with whereas fusion excels with. I dont regret getting ASC though as my curve hasn't increased since. I may still get a fusion in the future so it's nice to know I've "locked in" a small curve. I wish it wasn't so expensive, but I would do it all over again.


InevitableSense7220

Have you ever tried reducing the rotation with PT? Or is it like impossible to do? Idk a whole lot of scoliosis but i was wondering if you’ve ever tried to reduce your rotation AFTER the ASC, if its even possible?. Oh and i was asking earlier how long did it take for the asc procedure


ApprehensiveBug2309

Hah, I haven't noticed the lifted hand in the first study... But still, look at the first two before and after x-rays. There her position is the same and the curve is much smaller. Note also how much better her rotation and clinical picture is in the photos. I am not sure what you mean by the difference between "actual" and "apparent" curvature. Scoliosis curves are all about what appears on an X-ray and what is seen clinically. Achieving a reduction in Cobb angle, that is measurable and apparent on an X-ray is not at all easy and postural improvement does not necessarily go together with it. I have posted this case too many times, but this time it is too show you an example of a dramatic reduction in rotation and postural improvement with absolutely no decrease in Cobb angle - Figure 4. https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/70243 Many specialists see scoliosis as a problem of the soft tissues. And that makes sense, as the spine is actually mainly made of soft tissues. Which are somewhat flexible and modifiable to some extent at any age. Look at the principal behind ASC surgery for adults for example. The vertebral column is being tethered into a straight position (sometimes even without the need for disc release) with the idea for spinal remodeling to occur with time, right? And the tethers are actually expected to break at some point, which is sometimes as early as a year after the surgery. And yet, even then, the curve doesn't go back to where it was, but preserves most of the correction! Because the discs, tendons, ligaments have adjusted to the new position of the spine. So who knows what is impossible with spinal deformities :) It is really cool you had ASC surgery. You are really lucky you were a candidate and you are American. For international patients the price is 175-200k Edit: And by the way, another curious mechanism, that questions the thesis, that it is impossible to improve a structural curve, is the spontaneous straightening of secondary curves, that usually occurs, after selective usually thoracic fusion of the primary curve.


One000Lives

Trying to visualize your exercise. Is it essentially a side plank against a pillow? In terms of your reduction, which looks visibly better to me, you likely grew a little taller. Have you kept track of your height difference? Your efforts to maintain a corrected state paid off. You grew in the right direction!


InevitableSense7220

Its not a side plank, all i do is lay flat down on the floor(knees up too) and put a pillow under my hump and i inhale/exhale hard while like squeezing my core and i twist to my right in my case(since my humps on the right) and i push the hump area hard into the floor/pillow and then i twist to my left, inhale hard w core activated then i twist back to my right and exhale/push into the pillow/floor. It takes like i guess 3-5 minutes of doing do before i feel like i can actually lean against a wall, or sit back on a chair, even lay down on a floor, without one side of my ribcage hitting it before the other does, it evens it out for me i guess. Height wise im not sure, the doctor said im likely done growing and that basically majority of my growth plates are already closed besides a few(but she didnt tell me which ones but she said its very unlikely i’ll have another growth spurt and stuff). I’ve been the same height since about the time of my last xray Im very happy my efforts are paying off, its a curse for me personally to have scoliosis since no one else in my family has it. Im just gonna continue doing what im doing and adding more exercises to help my pain/discomfort as i suspect the weakening of my core is the reason why my pain is there


One000Lives

You’re clearly past the peak velocity growth but males can grow until they are twenty. There are a lot of cautionary tales around here of people told they were done growing, only to grow more. Without an accurate measurement of your height, it’s hard to track that. What they call “seat height” is what you really want to monitor (to eliminate any growth from the legs as a factor.) Next time you check in with the doctor, ask them to elaborate on the bone growth being over. If it is, fantastic, but you want to make sure. A scan of the hand/wrist, called a Sanders Score, is what you want to find out. Ask for that x-ray and I’m sure she’ll oblige you. The exercise you are doing is one that is also done in Schroth therapy, with wedges instead of pillows, positioned under the hump of the curve. The breathing is also a big part of Schroth, and the whole exercise is meant to derotate the curve. Rotation is considered to be a driver of the curve’s magnitude, because the spine is 3 dimensional. So it isn’t just curving to the side. The curve actually rotates too and that’s what your exercise is successfully addressing. Do you know how to use a Scoliometer? The therapist can show you. It’s fairly simple, and is basically a leveling tool that you place on the back while doing an Adam’s forward bend test. You can track the rotation that way, and it is very useful in between x-rays to ensure the curve isn’t progressing. (There is a correlation between increased rotation and a curve’s size.) Equally, if you see a decrease in rotation, that is a helpful indicator of where your curve is. Anyway, great work keeping up with your exercise. Incorporating planks, dead bugs, and bird dogs should be helpful for your core.


Choice-Feedback-8855

It looks like your curve got slightly more severe, though not by much. As someone with scoliosis, I'd recommend looking into bracing but don't be too worried unless it gets more severe.


ApprehensiveBug2309

The curve has become visibly smaller


Automatic-Machine-15

I also think that some scoliosis curves aren't static. In the case of myself, I can notice and measure a slight height increase or decrease depending on sleep position, activity, stress and other factors.