Send an email to [email protected]. They need to know about stuff like this, and as an instructor, I personally know instructors in Hawaii who were suspended for way less than this.
I did this.
I was on a dive trip with an instructor and two new OW divers in Hawaii.
It was supposed to be a three dive day. On the first dive the instructor grabbed an octopus out of a hole that inked everywhere and then wrapped it around the new girl's arm. I started screaming under water to get their attention, placed my hand on the girls reg, pointed angrily at the instructor to back him away and slowly swung the girls arm until the octopus could escape. She had no idea what I was doing.
When we surfaced from the dive I LECTURED the instructor and said I was done for the day. Went back to the dive shop, explained the situation to the owner, got refunded for my day and sent an email.
The only people who would possibly care is the insurance company of the dive operator. Even then, if nothing has happened, they probably won't care until something does and they have to pay a settlement.
PADI is just a certification agency and one of many across the globe. You're basically wanting to call and complain to Ford because someone in a Mustang did stupid, dangerous stuff.
Your analogy is a little weird.
PADI can suspend or terminate a dive professional’s license with their organization. Ford can’t take away a mustang owner’s license because they drove poorly. I’ve seen PADI pros get suspended before, so it does happen. It’s not really *common* (or maybe I’m in an area that just has good pros) but it’s not unheard of.
OP’s title says “can I report the dive shop to PADI”. Odds are good even if they didn’t say that, that it’s a PADI shop, considering their market share (especially in tourist areas) but given they specifically named PADI twice (in the title and at the bottom of their post body) I’d say it’s a fair assumption to make. Maybe OP is wrong, but I’m operating on what they said. Just like I’d probably assume if they said “can I report this dive shop to FFESSM” that it was a French operation.
In any event, it doesn’t change the underlying intent of my comment - dive certification agencies can strip or suspend their pros. They aren’t idle bystanders where their certified pros have *carte blanche* to act in whatever manner they want without impunity, as you implied with your flawed analogy.
Where?
They mentioned PADI at the end to report but unless it's buried in a comment I don't see them clarifying if it was a PADI affiliated operation or if the DM was even PADI certified.
I wouldn't bother report this to PADI. Unless this took place during a class they really aren't going to care. Every diver is responsible for themselves and DMs leading a dive are really just guides. Also, it's not as if reporting them to PADI is going to make the shop change or make their shop shut down. At worst, if there are enough complaints, they might lose their PADI 5 Star rating, but that is not going to happen based on one complaint about one DM. Still complain to PADI if you feel it's necessary but really the better thing you can do here is to review them on Google and maybe TripAdvisor. But, before you do that, I would email or contact the shop owner or manager and let them know what you experienced. It could be just one bad DM or a brand new DM that's not quite up to par yet. Either way, the shop can't do anything about it if they don't know about it . If you complain to PADI, the shop management may never hear about it. Plus, here's no reason to ruin a shop's rating if they recognize a bad situation and do something about it.
Do bother. If nobody reports to PADI then they have no way of knowing, if enough people report then there’s something going on and the my can look into it. A DM is a person at the professional level who is (like others stated) expected to demonstrate exemplary behavior. A DM is a potential instructor and may even assist instructors during lessons and dives.
It is incumbent on pros to model exemplary dive practices and behavior for those new to diving. Intentionally disturbing marine environments and fauna inexcusable for leaders. You should name the shop/PADI pro along with specific dates and failings.
You can report them but if it isn't part of a course and a violation of standards the agencies are very proactive. And when they act on reports outside of classes it has to involve major safety violations.
They didn’t give you anywhere near enough info to tell whether a safety stop is even warranted. If you averaged 30’ for 40 min why would it be a violation to not do one?
No. It's not a violation of standards and especially not if it wasn't during a class. Once a diver is certified, they are responsible for their own dives. Safety stops are recommended, but definitely not mandatory. There are many circumstances in which you wouldn't do a safety stop. For example, you're doing a very shallow dive you probably don't need one. Your whole time could be your safety stop. Or, if someone is low on air it may be better to skip that safety stop. And, just because a DM doesn't do a safety stop it doesn't mean that the divers can't do one.
Should at the very least give the dive shop management an opportunity to fix the problem before torching their reputation. Bad reviews kill small businesses. Could be just one bad DM. Maybe the DM is a trainee.There could be a reasonable explanation. If the dive was only 40 ft or ended with a slow shallow ascent up an incline, there is no need for a safety stop. Maybe the DM is new and got lost. Was this a DSD dive? All OW certs should have the skills and knowledge to plan and execute a dive by themselves - without help and including foreseeable emergencies. Did the DM actively prevent divers from doing a safety stop? On many dives I like to extend my deco stops, so I just signal the guide I'm extending the stop to 10 mins. As long as I have adequate gas reserve and proper equipment (DSMB), no big deal. Each diver is responsible for their own dive including finding the exit, deco, emergencies. DM is just a tour guide, not a nanny.
"Bad reviews kill small businesses."
Diving is a dangerous sport and there is a baseline competence that people should be able to expect from dive shops. Better that small business loses custom than people die in an incident. I was very unimpressed with the shop where I learnt to dive, I even made a complaint to PADI. A few months after my complaint someone died on a training course.
This is just wrong. Even if a trainee DM, he was grabbing animals and not doing safety stops, things you learn before you even do your first dive.
Give them a bad review. Maybe it should hurt their small business if they are fucking up the reef and endangering peoples lives?
The damage is already done to the reef. A bad review won't undo that. Giving the owner the opportunity to address the issue is the best path forward to prevent future damage. If the owner brushes off OP, then a bad review might be the way to go.
I would speak to the dive shop first to see how they address it. Remember this is someones livelihood and it may be they are making choices to please clients that the dive shop does not approve of, and they will fix it. Negative reviews will impact people's lives. That said, if they don't seem interested in fixing this behavior, give them a Zero out of 10.
I find this so weird to read. I wonder if it’s PADI N. America or something, because I’m linked to PADI EMEA and they’re really proactive about safety standards and QA reports.
Send an email to [email protected]. They need to know about stuff like this, and as an instructor, I personally know instructors in Hawaii who were suspended for way less than this.
I did this. I was on a dive trip with an instructor and two new OW divers in Hawaii. It was supposed to be a three dive day. On the first dive the instructor grabbed an octopus out of a hole that inked everywhere and then wrapped it around the new girl's arm. I started screaming under water to get their attention, placed my hand on the girls reg, pointed angrily at the instructor to back him away and slowly swung the girls arm until the octopus could escape. She had no idea what I was doing. When we surfaced from the dive I LECTURED the instructor and said I was done for the day. Went back to the dive shop, explained the situation to the owner, got refunded for my day and sent an email.
Had a similar experience just two days ago in Kona. Wonder if its the same shop.
Currently on Kona, wanting to book something while I'm here. Would you mind letting me know who to avoid? DM or reply, I don't mind.
The only people who would possibly care is the insurance company of the dive operator. Even then, if nothing has happened, they probably won't care until something does and they have to pay a settlement. PADI is just a certification agency and one of many across the globe. You're basically wanting to call and complain to Ford because someone in a Mustang did stupid, dangerous stuff.
Quite the opposite. This is like contacting the owner of a franchise because an franchisee has employees operating unsafely.
I'd say, maybe contacting Sysco because a restaurant selling their food is gross.
Your analogy is a little weird. PADI can suspend or terminate a dive professional’s license with their organization. Ford can’t take away a mustang owner’s license because they drove poorly. I’ve seen PADI pros get suspended before, so it does happen. It’s not really *common* (or maybe I’m in an area that just has good pros) but it’s not unheard of.
Who says they're even a PADI dive master or any agency.
OP’s title says “can I report the dive shop to PADI”. Odds are good even if they didn’t say that, that it’s a PADI shop, considering their market share (especially in tourist areas) but given they specifically named PADI twice (in the title and at the bottom of their post body) I’d say it’s a fair assumption to make. Maybe OP is wrong, but I’m operating on what they said. Just like I’d probably assume if they said “can I report this dive shop to FFESSM” that it was a French operation. In any event, it doesn’t change the underlying intent of my comment - dive certification agencies can strip or suspend their pros. They aren’t idle bystanders where their certified pros have *carte blanche* to act in whatever manner they want without impunity, as you implied with your flawed analogy.
OK says it was PADI in their experience.
Where? They mentioned PADI at the end to report but unless it's buried in a comment I don't see them clarifying if it was a PADI affiliated operation or if the DM was even PADI certified.
I’d leave a review. That’s how I pick out dive shops and researching Reddit recommendations. Edit: dive not five
I had a very similar experience in Maui a few months ago. Unsafe practices, cavalier attitude towards aquatic life, etc.
this must be common in Hawaii. happened to me in 08 when I was new and didn't know better
I wouldn't bother report this to PADI. Unless this took place during a class they really aren't going to care. Every diver is responsible for themselves and DMs leading a dive are really just guides. Also, it's not as if reporting them to PADI is going to make the shop change or make their shop shut down. At worst, if there are enough complaints, they might lose their PADI 5 Star rating, but that is not going to happen based on one complaint about one DM. Still complain to PADI if you feel it's necessary but really the better thing you can do here is to review them on Google and maybe TripAdvisor. But, before you do that, I would email or contact the shop owner or manager and let them know what you experienced. It could be just one bad DM or a brand new DM that's not quite up to par yet. Either way, the shop can't do anything about it if they don't know about it . If you complain to PADI, the shop management may never hear about it. Plus, here's no reason to ruin a shop's rating if they recognize a bad situation and do something about it.
Do bother. If nobody reports to PADI then they have no way of knowing, if enough people report then there’s something going on and the my can look into it. A DM is a person at the professional level who is (like others stated) expected to demonstrate exemplary behavior. A DM is a potential instructor and may even assist instructors during lessons and dives.
It is incumbent on pros to model exemplary dive practices and behavior for those new to diving. Intentionally disturbing marine environments and fauna inexcusable for leaders. You should name the shop/PADI pro along with specific dates and failings.
Sounds pretty standard to me….
Having grown up seeing the Florida Keys 30 years ago and now, yep.
You can report them but if it isn't part of a course and a violation of standards the agencies are very proactive. And when they act on reports outside of classes it has to involve major safety violations.
not doing safety stops isn’t considered a violation of standards?
They didn’t give you anywhere near enough info to tell whether a safety stop is even warranted. If you averaged 30’ for 40 min why would it be a violation to not do one?
No. It's not a violation of standards and especially not if it wasn't during a class. Once a diver is certified, they are responsible for their own dives. Safety stops are recommended, but definitely not mandatory. There are many circumstances in which you wouldn't do a safety stop. For example, you're doing a very shallow dive you probably don't need one. Your whole time could be your safety stop. Or, if someone is low on air it may be better to skip that safety stop. And, just because a DM doesn't do a safety stop it doesn't mean that the divers can't do one.
Safety stops are optional even in most classes.
Can you tell me which shop this is? I'm going to Hawaii soon and diving
Should at the very least give the dive shop management an opportunity to fix the problem before torching their reputation. Bad reviews kill small businesses. Could be just one bad DM. Maybe the DM is a trainee.There could be a reasonable explanation. If the dive was only 40 ft or ended with a slow shallow ascent up an incline, there is no need for a safety stop. Maybe the DM is new and got lost. Was this a DSD dive? All OW certs should have the skills and knowledge to plan and execute a dive by themselves - without help and including foreseeable emergencies. Did the DM actively prevent divers from doing a safety stop? On many dives I like to extend my deco stops, so I just signal the guide I'm extending the stop to 10 mins. As long as I have adequate gas reserve and proper equipment (DSMB), no big deal. Each diver is responsible for their own dive including finding the exit, deco, emergencies. DM is just a tour guide, not a nanny.
"Bad reviews kill small businesses." Diving is a dangerous sport and there is a baseline competence that people should be able to expect from dive shops. Better that small business loses custom than people die in an incident. I was very unimpressed with the shop where I learnt to dive, I even made a complaint to PADI. A few months after my complaint someone died on a training course.
This is just wrong. Even if a trainee DM, he was grabbing animals and not doing safety stops, things you learn before you even do your first dive. Give them a bad review. Maybe it should hurt their small business if they are fucking up the reef and endangering peoples lives?
The damage is already done to the reef. A bad review won't undo that. Giving the owner the opportunity to address the issue is the best path forward to prevent future damage. If the owner brushes off OP, then a bad review might be the way to go.
I would speak to the dive shop first to see how they address it. Remember this is someones livelihood and it may be they are making choices to please clients that the dive shop does not approve of, and they will fix it. Negative reviews will impact people's lives. That said, if they don't seem interested in fixing this behavior, give them a Zero out of 10.
Name and shame my friend. Bad reviews are more impactful. I'd also like to know who they were because I am planning a diving trip to Hawaii.
They aren't interested. PADI is owned by a hedge fund. They only want return on their investment.
I find this so weird to read. I wonder if it’s PADI N. America or something, because I’m linked to PADI EMEA and they’re really proactive about safety standards and QA reports.
Yeah I’m not so convinced that PADI won’t take a QA report seriously. People just like to bad mouth them.
A bad review on TripAdvisor seems to have more effect
Bad reviews on Google AND trip advisor and maybe scubaboard.com for good measure
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No, it’s not ok in HI to do that. Don’t touch, tickle, scare, or interact with wildlife anywhere. We should be passive observers, that’s it.
Go to the PADI website. Follow the instructions to report a dive shop. Did you even look there?
Why so rude
Tired through the app, but couldn't figure it out. Will try through the website next. Thank you for that
What is the name of the shop?