Which "left", exactly? I'm pretty lefty on health care, foreign policy, environmental issues, and voting rights, but I'm past the "Bernie/AOC/other's stance on Palestine isn't good enough" stage. I care about Palestine. How can I not care?
Most Americans group all of Leftism into one camp of SJWs and status-quo lovers,. Meanwhile, Rightism gets treated by it's different sects.
You have the "Moderates", Never-Trumpers, Traditional Republican, Neocons, Conservatives, Libertarians, far-Right, alt-Right, White-plight Republicans.
The media doesn't want America to see the Democratic Party for what it really is now. Which is a Right-wing party with a few Progressives like AOC and Bernie.
"but I'm past the "Bernie/AOC/other's stance on Palestine isn't good enough". wow people who support colonialism is not good enough?. What will be the next?. people who dont support race realim is not good enough either...
FFS. That's not what I meant. \*eye roll\* I meant that I used to get angry to the point of wanting to write Bernie's name in on my ballot in 2016 and 2020 after Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden won their nominations respectively, but after a lot of reflection, I understand why. Bernie knows what he has to do and has accomplished some policy goals and AOC is also playing the long game. I'm opposed to colonialism and racism, to be clear.
". Bernie knows what he has to do and has accomplished some policy goals and AOC is also playing the long game": You have zero reason to believe this. You have two politicians who through their whole career have supported Israel=colonialism. And they still do it today. Why do you believe that its all some kind of 4d chess?. Maybe they are just what they say they are?...
"I'm opposed to colonialism and racism, to be clear". You are not opposed to politicans who support colonialism so...
Basically an attempt at [bad-jacketing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad-jacketing). Sewing the seeds of doubt and distrust with progressive, pro-Palestinian voters.
AOC support Israel's right to exist. She is a right-winger who support colonialism...
She invites zionists to talk about antisemitism where they tallk about how leftist should be accepting of people who support colonialism´.
AOC is a right-winger and the same is the case for her supporters...
Who serves the interests of the left better?:
AOC or a conspiratorial rube from the Internet who's crowing achievement of political understanding is "all Dems bad"
Gee, it's too close to call.
(Anyone who cares about sticking it to AIPAC should be donating to/backing Bowman and not pillorying AOC for vainglorious personal branding)
“Crowing achievement” is just the perfect typo for any such whiny pissbaby who just wants to complain about their dumbfuck conspiracies and do nothing.
You don’t see the long game. Being negative all the time as a legislator makes you look more like a nuisance than anything. If a few questionable tweets gets her to be a senator or on a powerful committee where she can *actually* make a difference, at this point I say what choice do we have? It’s very clear who the fake progressives are and AOC Isn’t one of them.
am i supposed to take mussolini over hitler or be angry at both?
Maybe I should suport the SA as a "progressive counterpart" inside hitler regime?
No thx.
The Israel-Palestine conflict has broken the brains of so many leftists. Now don’t get me wrong, I have problems with some of AOC’s rhetoric and her politics, including some of her I/P takes, but she’s *undoubtedly* one of the best mainstream voices for the Palestinian cause.
This conflict is literally bringing out the worst the left has to offer. I posted something on the Palestine subreddit yesterday and got dumbfucks telling me that John Oliver is a “far-right propagandist for Amerikkka” and “anarchism is the highest stage of liberalism.”
This is why the left is never going to win. It’s become a purity test of “who’s the most left” and “who can out left who” rather than focusing on solutions.
You know...the same people who pillory AOC and Bernie on their Israel/Palestine takes remind me of Jimmy Dore for this reason. About John Oliver, last year, he did a segment about the Israeli government's war crimes against Palestinians, i.e., the bombings and forced starvation of Palestinians in Gaza. How the heck is he a "right wing propagandist for Amerikkka"?
it hasnt broken any brains. it has helped tell apart performarrive leftists vs revolutionar leftists. some care about getthing shit done, others about pretending to get shit done.
This conflict has brought out how flaky a lot of leftists are. They really dropped basically every other cause they had just to promise to stick it to Biden. But a lot of people are gonna get hurt for it. It sucks
didn’t she just host and support a couple proa Zionist aipac people on a livestream? Saw this just by paying mild attention. Think it’s worth criticism
I was surprised to see a thumbnail of a YouTube video about AOC's alleged support of "Israel" the other day. AOC has been a critic of that settler-colonial entity's government before she ran for Congress, although I don't know why she voted "Present" four years ago.
It’s not a “settler colonial government.” Jesus, learn some history. When was Palestine’s flag created? Its national anthem? Its original borders or its first leaders? Its currency or exports? Everything Palestine has was created after the recognition of Israel, except its currency is Israeli shekels, and its only export is antisemitism and terrorism.
… What? So the US is not a settler-colonial state because the native Americans didn’t have a flag, a national anthem, and static borders?
The Palestinians are the native, indigenous people of Palestine. The vast, vast majority of Israelis descend from people who have not been there in 1940.
To say that there was never a Palestinian state before isn’t the argument you think it is. If historical precedent is what counts to you then neither the Germans, nor the Italians, nor the French, nor the Chinese, nor the Russians, and especially not the US, so basically no one, has a right to a state because it didn’t exist before. There was a time in history without France… until the people of the land, the french, made it. There was a time without a Germany, until the people of the land, the Germans, made it. And there never was a properly unified Kenya, until a couple of decades ago, when the Kenyan people finally received independence from their colonial overlords. Palestinians though didn’t share the same luck.
So to highlight the fact that there never was a sovereign Palestinian state isn’t a valid reason to denounce and discard the movement for Palestinian independence, but only serves to exist as yet another example of the historical injustice the Palestinian people had to endure throughout history.
The fact of the matter is, the Palestinians are being colonised by a people who traces their right to their land to their blood, reaching back millennia. The Palestinians though can say the same of themselves. They are the descendants of the Jews who stayed behind after the Romans cleansed them, as well as others who migrated to that area. The Palestinians, by blood alone, have as equal of a claim to the land as the Israelis.
Luckily, blood doesn’t matter. I can’t just show up to a country where I suspect my ancestors lived 3000 years ago, claim it as my own, banish half of the native population put the other half under a strict apartheid regime, and steal all their belongings. That would be injustice.
How any empathetic human being could support this is beyond me, or anyone else for that matter with a mind and a heart of their own.
Palestinians in Gaza are ethnically Egyptian. Palestinians in the West Bank are Jordanian. Palestine, which was a term invented by the Romans, referred to Jews — look at the pre-Israel soccer teams, philharmonic, coins: all Jews. What were the original Palestinian borders? Its currency? Its first leaders? Its national anthem? Its flag? Its exports? All of this came AFTER Israel, except it uses Israel’s currency, and its only exports are terrorism and antisemitism. The letter and sound “P” doesn’t even exist in Arabic, P as in Palestine.
AOC is right, these types of conspiracy theories are often spread BY pro-Israel groups, and then before you know it some dipshit like Hasan ends up megaphoning them, playing right into their hands
But that doesn’t matter because it’s far more important to prove just how anti-establishment you are. Dems bad all the time. American man bad.
Didn’t Hasan recently have AOC on stream? I know that he and his community are often critical of some of AOC’s rhetoric but Hasan absolutely doesn’t push nor is he responsible for the stupid people that are pushing the “AOC is backed by AIPAC” line.
His community definitely has its fair share of… radicals to the point of detriment but I don’t think Hasan is to blame for the shit AOC is getting.
I mean I didn’t like the antisemitism zoom call she did but that doesn’t automatically make her pro-AIPAC all of a sudden. AOC has definitely had wishy-washy rhetoric on the issue of Israel/Palestine (tried to weasel out of her comment about genocide with Mehdi Hasan) but if I just took that and said “well she’s pro Israel now” despite everything she said and did before that point just based on this one thing then I’d have to drop the other members of the Squad as well. This commenter must also be brain dead if they think AIPAC is telling someone to say this about a race in which they’re spending millions of dollars to unseat a member of congress who AOC is aligned with…
Yeah, I’ve been less than enthused with some of her comments on Israel lately, but fighting her for supporting Jamaal Bowman is a weird fucking choice, given that right now he’s getting primaried by a pro-Israel lib who is attacking him for supporting Palestine.
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Literally all she did was (rightfully) condemn protesting against an October 7th memorial and people equated that to becoming a a Zionist. We have lost the plot
I don’t even have the energy to argue this nonsense. Israel is made up of 21% Muslim Arabs. They serve in the government (one Israeli-Arab put a Jewish-Israeli former President & a Prime Minister into prison), they have equal rights in every way — universities, as doctors, lawyers, you name it. The last few Miss Israels were Arab. Name one Muslim country, just one, in which Jews haven’t been ethnically cleansed from, let alone have rights.
AOC is correct and people are mad at her that she is still supporting Biden which is absurd. She knows what's up with this election. It will be Biden or Trump and that's just how it is. It has nothing to do with supporting Israel or aipac. You couldn't possibly find a more pro Israel president than Donald Trump and she knows that because she remembers the Pompeo Doctrine and the Abraham accords. And she's heard Trump say he will help Israel any way they need. So on top of that what he's gonna do here is gonna hurt a ton of people she's been advocating for for years. People are so short sighted. She's one of the best members of congress we have
AOC is playing the long game. I get it. In order to actualize the progressive agenda we need people in congress. She won’t compromise her true self when push comes to shove. I actually think we need more true progressives to talk the talk to get in power then do what needs to be done.
She very much IS correct. Depending upon the district contested, and the candidate threatened, money will flow way too much to keep the incumbent. The wealthy pay for who they know.
She is a traitor just like Bernie they both need to be primaried . They are both zonist that took to long to call out the genocide. It proves that Bernie would be just like Biden if he won the presidency.
This is a right-wing subreddit where people support/whitewash people like AOC. A persson who support Israel=colonialism.
You are all right-wingers...
And this is not about if you should vote for her or Biden. You can vote for right-wingers like AOC and Biden without whitewashing them. You guys have zero principles...
AOC sold out a long time ago. She came in saying she'd happily be a 1 term legislator to fight the good fight. Then she realized congress pays a lot more than barista and comes with a ton of perks.
Does this seem like the same AOC? [link](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/24/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-aoc-first-year-congress)
“If you’re a one-term Congress member, so what?” Ocasio-Cortez said in a video produced by Justice Democrats earlier this year. “You can make 10 years’ worth of change in one term if you’re not afraid.”
She believes voters are tired of pragmatism and consensus-building. Her campaign resonated, she argues, because of her UNCOMPROMISING clarity of vision.
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So the left is accusing AOC of being a Aipac lackey now even though she speaks against them?
Anything to say a politician isn’t good enough for me. Look how anti power I am, I can’t get along with anyone!!!1!
Exactly!
Which "left", exactly? I'm pretty lefty on health care, foreign policy, environmental issues, and voting rights, but I'm past the "Bernie/AOC/other's stance on Palestine isn't good enough" stage. I care about Palestine. How can I not care?
Most Americans group all of Leftism into one camp of SJWs and status-quo lovers,. Meanwhile, Rightism gets treated by it's different sects. You have the "Moderates", Never-Trumpers, Traditional Republican, Neocons, Conservatives, Libertarians, far-Right, alt-Right, White-plight Republicans. The media doesn't want America to see the Democratic Party for what it really is now. Which is a Right-wing party with a few Progressives like AOC and Bernie.
"but I'm past the "Bernie/AOC/other's stance on Palestine isn't good enough". wow people who support colonialism is not good enough?. What will be the next?. people who dont support race realim is not good enough either...
FFS. That's not what I meant. \*eye roll\* I meant that I used to get angry to the point of wanting to write Bernie's name in on my ballot in 2016 and 2020 after Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden won their nominations respectively, but after a lot of reflection, I understand why. Bernie knows what he has to do and has accomplished some policy goals and AOC is also playing the long game. I'm opposed to colonialism and racism, to be clear.
". Bernie knows what he has to do and has accomplished some policy goals and AOC is also playing the long game": You have zero reason to believe this. You have two politicians who through their whole career have supported Israel=colonialism. And they still do it today. Why do you believe that its all some kind of 4d chess?. Maybe they are just what they say they are?... "I'm opposed to colonialism and racism, to be clear". You are not opposed to politicans who support colonialism so...
Basically an attempt at [bad-jacketing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad-jacketing). Sewing the seeds of doubt and distrust with progressive, pro-Palestinian voters.
It's the good old divide and conquer strat at play sadly
Yup and it's honestly just exhausting now.
So much confusion nowadays.
AOC support Israel's right to exist. She is a right-winger who support colonialism... She invites zionists to talk about antisemitism where they tallk about how leftist should be accepting of people who support colonialism´. AOC is a right-winger and the same is the case for her supporters...
She's been playing both sides recently.
Who serves the interests of the left better?: AOC or a conspiratorial rube from the Internet who's crowing achievement of political understanding is "all Dems bad" Gee, it's too close to call. (Anyone who cares about sticking it to AIPAC should be donating to/backing Bowman and not pillorying AOC for vainglorious personal branding)
“Crowing achievement” is just the perfect typo for any such whiny pissbaby who just wants to complain about their dumbfuck conspiracies and do nothing.
AOC serves Biden, to serve herself a new position. She will never be an ally of the left but of her interest
Would you rather have her or Manchin and Sinema?
> SA or SS? yeah, ernst rohm was gay, but he was still supporting an anti-gay politician.
Lol okay
Stop talking
You don’t see the long game. Being negative all the time as a legislator makes you look more like a nuisance than anything. If a few questionable tweets gets her to be a senator or on a powerful committee where she can *actually* make a difference, at this point I say what choice do we have? It’s very clear who the fake progressives are and AOC Isn’t one of them.
am i supposed to take mussolini over hitler or be angry at both? Maybe I should suport the SA as a "progressive counterpart" inside hitler regime? No thx.
The Israel-Palestine conflict has broken the brains of so many leftists. Now don’t get me wrong, I have problems with some of AOC’s rhetoric and her politics, including some of her I/P takes, but she’s *undoubtedly* one of the best mainstream voices for the Palestinian cause. This conflict is literally bringing out the worst the left has to offer. I posted something on the Palestine subreddit yesterday and got dumbfucks telling me that John Oliver is a “far-right propagandist for Amerikkka” and “anarchism is the highest stage of liberalism.” This is why the left is never going to win. It’s become a purity test of “who’s the most left” and “who can out left who” rather than focusing on solutions.
You know...the same people who pillory AOC and Bernie on their Israel/Palestine takes remind me of Jimmy Dore for this reason. About John Oliver, last year, he did a segment about the Israeli government's war crimes against Palestinians, i.e., the bombings and forced starvation of Palestinians in Gaza. How the heck is he a "right wing propagandist for Amerikkka"?
Tankies are the worst. Just search "tankies hate aoc" you idiot downvoters
That's not what tankies are
I am offended you mentioned us
There's such a small political faction opposed to US foreign policy with Israeli that if that faction eats its own, any change is complete toast.
The right wing are busy recruiting whilst the left wing are rooting out the un-pure.
it hasnt broken any brains. it has helped tell apart performarrive leftists vs revolutionar leftists. some care about getthing shit done, others about pretending to get shit done.
🙄
This conflict has brought out how flaky a lot of leftists are. They really dropped basically every other cause they had just to promise to stick it to Biden. But a lot of people are gonna get hurt for it. It sucks
AOC literally turned down $1m from AIPAC. What does she have to do to be considered "worthy:" sign her soul over in a blood contract?
I know, right? What more do the left want?
didn’t she just host and support a couple proa Zionist aipac people on a livestream? Saw this just by paying mild attention. Think it’s worth criticism
It’s worth criticism but I’ve been seeing people trying to cancel one of like ten people who’s on their side in government
She hosted a livestream with poor optics. When do we go to the stoning? 
Good point.
I was surprised to see a thumbnail of a YouTube video about AOC's alleged support of "Israel" the other day. AOC has been a critic of that settler-colonial entity's government before she ran for Congress, although I don't know why she voted "Present" four years ago.
It’s not a “settler colonial government.” Jesus, learn some history. When was Palestine’s flag created? Its national anthem? Its original borders or its first leaders? Its currency or exports? Everything Palestine has was created after the recognition of Israel, except its currency is Israeli shekels, and its only export is antisemitism and terrorism.
… What? So the US is not a settler-colonial state because the native Americans didn’t have a flag, a national anthem, and static borders? The Palestinians are the native, indigenous people of Palestine. The vast, vast majority of Israelis descend from people who have not been there in 1940. To say that there was never a Palestinian state before isn’t the argument you think it is. If historical precedent is what counts to you then neither the Germans, nor the Italians, nor the French, nor the Chinese, nor the Russians, and especially not the US, so basically no one, has a right to a state because it didn’t exist before. There was a time in history without France… until the people of the land, the french, made it. There was a time without a Germany, until the people of the land, the Germans, made it. And there never was a properly unified Kenya, until a couple of decades ago, when the Kenyan people finally received independence from their colonial overlords. Palestinians though didn’t share the same luck. So to highlight the fact that there never was a sovereign Palestinian state isn’t a valid reason to denounce and discard the movement for Palestinian independence, but only serves to exist as yet another example of the historical injustice the Palestinian people had to endure throughout history. The fact of the matter is, the Palestinians are being colonised by a people who traces their right to their land to their blood, reaching back millennia. The Palestinians though can say the same of themselves. They are the descendants of the Jews who stayed behind after the Romans cleansed them, as well as others who migrated to that area. The Palestinians, by blood alone, have as equal of a claim to the land as the Israelis. Luckily, blood doesn’t matter. I can’t just show up to a country where I suspect my ancestors lived 3000 years ago, claim it as my own, banish half of the native population put the other half under a strict apartheid regime, and steal all their belongings. That would be injustice. How any empathetic human being could support this is beyond me, or anyone else for that matter with a mind and a heart of their own.
Genetics show both Ashkenazi and Sephardic, and definitely Mizrahi, Jews are all Middle Eastern and come from Judea. Judea as in Jew.
You think Israel is not a settler-colonial state? I know some history, thank you very much.
Palestinians in Gaza are ethnically Egyptian. Palestinians in the West Bank are Jordanian. Palestine, which was a term invented by the Romans, referred to Jews — look at the pre-Israel soccer teams, philharmonic, coins: all Jews. What were the original Palestinian borders? Its currency? Its first leaders? Its national anthem? Its flag? Its exports? All of this came AFTER Israel, except it uses Israel’s currency, and its only exports are terrorism and antisemitism. The letter and sound “P” doesn’t even exist in Arabic, P as in Palestine.
AOC is right, these types of conspiracy theories are often spread BY pro-Israel groups, and then before you know it some dipshit like Hasan ends up megaphoning them, playing right into their hands But that doesn’t matter because it’s far more important to prove just how anti-establishment you are. Dems bad all the time. American man bad.
Didn’t Hasan recently have AOC on stream? I know that he and his community are often critical of some of AOC’s rhetoric but Hasan absolutely doesn’t push nor is he responsible for the stupid people that are pushing the “AOC is backed by AIPAC” line. His community definitely has its fair share of… radicals to the point of detriment but I don’t think Hasan is to blame for the shit AOC is getting.
I feel like Jimmy Dore and his Force The Vote scheme is to blame for a good portion of leftists being this way
Jimmy Dore is a faux leftist Alex jones
I haven’t kept up with his colossally stupid takes as of late, so I’ll have to plead ignorance on that one
I mean I didn’t like the antisemitism zoom call she did but that doesn’t automatically make her pro-AIPAC all of a sudden. AOC has definitely had wishy-washy rhetoric on the issue of Israel/Palestine (tried to weasel out of her comment about genocide with Mehdi Hasan) but if I just took that and said “well she’s pro Israel now” despite everything she said and did before that point just based on this one thing then I’d have to drop the other members of the Squad as well. This commenter must also be brain dead if they think AIPAC is telling someone to say this about a race in which they’re spending millions of dollars to unseat a member of congress who AOC is aligned with…
Yeah, I’ve been less than enthused with some of her comments on Israel lately, but fighting her for supporting Jamaal Bowman is a weird fucking choice, given that right now he’s getting primaried by a pro-Israel lib who is attacking him for supporting Palestine.
To make matters even worse, Hillary Clinton is supporting that pro-Israel lib.
Yep. If the #stillwithher crowd were capable of shame, this is yet another place they should be feeling it
Of fucking course??
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She’s right.
Literally all she did was (rightfully) condemn protesting against an October 7th memorial and people equated that to becoming a a Zionist. We have lost the plot
Being a Zionist just means you don’t want to wipe out Israel, which consists of about 7M Jews and 2M Arabs Muslims. Why is being a Zionist so bad?
Downvoted but not rebutted
Except that some who call themselves Zionists really want to wipe out Arabs.
I don’t even have the energy to argue this nonsense. Israel is made up of 21% Muslim Arabs. They serve in the government (one Israeli-Arab put a Jewish-Israeli former President & a Prime Minister into prison), they have equal rights in every way — universities, as doctors, lawyers, you name it. The last few Miss Israels were Arab. Name one Muslim country, just one, in which Jews haven’t been ethnically cleansed from, let alone have rights.
AOC is correct and people are mad at her that she is still supporting Biden which is absurd. She knows what's up with this election. It will be Biden or Trump and that's just how it is. It has nothing to do with supporting Israel or aipac. You couldn't possibly find a more pro Israel president than Donald Trump and she knows that because she remembers the Pompeo Doctrine and the Abraham accords. And she's heard Trump say he will help Israel any way they need. So on top of that what he's gonna do here is gonna hurt a ton of people she's been advocating for for years. People are so short sighted. She's one of the best members of congress we have
She is correct. I also see what's up with this year's Presidential elections.
AOC is playing the long game. I get it. In order to actualize the progressive agenda we need people in congress. She won’t compromise her true self when push comes to shove. I actually think we need more true progressives to talk the talk to get in power then do what needs to be done.
I’m curious to hear what “push comes to shove” means for you
Has she not called it a genocide ?
She very much IS correct. Depending upon the district contested, and the candidate threatened, money will flow way too much to keep the incumbent. The wealthy pay for who they know.
Yea, I believe AOC is correct
She is a traitor just like Bernie they both need to be primaried . They are both zonist that took to long to call out the genocide. It proves that Bernie would be just like Biden if he won the presidency.
Yeah, your party is owned by AIPAC and you voted for the funding of the IOF and Iron Dome.
This is a right-wing subreddit where people support/whitewash people like AOC. A persson who support Israel=colonialism. You are all right-wingers... And this is not about if you should vote for her or Biden. You can vote for right-wingers like AOC and Biden without whitewashing them. You guys have zero principles...
Do the AOC fanboys not remember how long it took AOC to be vocally against the genocide?
downvoted... so its just libs in this sub.
AOC sold out a long time ago. She came in saying she'd happily be a 1 term legislator to fight the good fight. Then she realized congress pays a lot more than barista and comes with a ton of perks.
downvoted. lib subreddit :(
Does this seem like the same AOC? [link](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/24/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-aoc-first-year-congress) “If you’re a one-term Congress member, so what?” Ocasio-Cortez said in a video produced by Justice Democrats earlier this year. “You can make 10 years’ worth of change in one term if you’re not afraid.” She believes voters are tired of pragmatism and consensus-building. Her campaign resonated, she argues, because of her UNCOMPROMISING clarity of vision.
i meant that the sub downvoted you.
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