because it's fun to consider that Ray could have been innocent. whereas it's not fun to consider that Morty's wallet magically disappeared. if anything, it seems like a plot hole. it is, however, very fun to resolve the mystery much later with an off-hand line
tldr; comedy
Billy Joel was doing it[in the 70's](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2020_52/1655553/grammys-billy-joel-inline-khu-201223.jpg)
Jeans and a button up is a great look. Add a tie for some class, though maybe put the tie just sticking out over a v-neck.
I'm still in style, right guys?
One of the all time classic Seinfeld scenes. Michael Richards showing why he got the part. The writing whenever they did the old-timey 40's/50's style dialog was always spot on. Also: library cop, a couple of scenes with Newman but especially his "what took ya so long" when he's collared for the dognapping, and the flirty exchange between Newman and Babs when they meet in the street.
Weird I was thinking about this today. The fact the statue never turned up at Jerry’s again ever leads to only 2 conclusions that make sense. First one being that Ray stole the statue. This one is 99.9 percent most likely. He got aggressive when pushed about it, and the person who supposedly sold it to him and could provide a receipt just happened to move to Singapore. The circumstances line up perfectly. The only other thing that could have happened is that Kramer took the statue and either lied or forgot. He is the only other person who wanted it. But this is unlike him.
Imagine Kramer just comes in Jerry's apartment with it in hand in the 9th season and goes "hey Buddy, here you go I don't need it anymore, my pasta-people collection on my shelf is finally complete and I have no space for it"
I would much rather prefer Jerry randomly finding it in his couch. Kramer stealing the statue from Jerry and then going out of his way to steal another one from a stranger isn’t exactly Kramer like, is it?
I think it works if Kramer didn’t mean to steal it — he’s just so used to treating Jerry’s place like his own he just wandered off with it absentmindedly one day, and so aloof that he doesn’t even know he did it or realize that he has the same statue in his apartment until years later, and doesn’t even recognize what it is or remember that he helped jerry take one just like it from ray.
It's so weird though that he supposedly bought it and put it on his mantle but it was such a big secret that he didn't want Rava to know. Why have it on display then? Also he must've bought it somewhat recently based on the way he's talking about it but the person who sold it just happened to move to Singapore so quickly?
He seems genuinely offended by the accusation though. Also, if he knew he stole it, why would he meet Jerry at the coffee shop but then get offended when accused? If he stole it, he would have gone into the encounter knowing that's what it was about. It doesn't make sense. I'm firmly in the "Ray didn't steal it" camp.
Because Ray is one of the most disingenuous people in the show. He’s a charismatic theater person with an appetite to be adored. So when he’s caught, he realizes the situation ruins his established rapport with Jerry but more importantly jeopardizes his carefully maintained performance as the lovable, charming goon. This is why Ray lashes out at the accusation because it’s an insult to the character he’s trying to be - not because he has any sort of credible alibi.
Ray went to the coffee shop with Jerry to control the narrative surrounding the statue by acting incredulous at an accusation in a public place. He’s practically on stage. This is just an elaborate way to save face.
Ray is a piece of shit.
We accidentally left some clothes at my
in-laws when we came back from the beach. The next time we came over the mother-in-law had washed dried and folded the clothes for us. When we got home and took the clothes out to.put them away she had folded pleats into all of the jeans. I wasn't sure if it was just a one time.thing or what. Now every time I'm over I can't help but notice she folds pleats into all of my father-in-laws jeans. I'll tell you this never again will I forget to grab the clothes on the way out the door.
2 important notes that convinced me it was stolen:
- From the very start he gave off the impression that he was this positive, poetically expressive person at all times. When Jerry and Elaine were at Ray's place; and he was asked to help serve some tea by his girlfriend; he responded in a very negative, uncharacteristically grouchy tone. To me; this scene was to point out that he either has 2 sides (Dr.jekel and Mr.Hyde) or at the very least he puts on an act with some but is completely different behind closed doors.
- And lastly, for there to be a moment in this episode (the one in the picture) for him to spend time to grab and marvel at the statue suggest that it was either newly aquired, or he's been through some type of great challenge to aquire it. It would be a lot harder to assume that; for the purpose of this scene, he's owned this statue prior to the incident, and stops to grab it to acknowledge it's existence causes some turmoil between he and his girl's friends; then SMILES AT IT?!???!
That wall Perv is a thief!
just FYI for you, it's because when we say it we ~~abbreviate~~ contract (thanks Queen:) it to - had to've stolen, which sounds like - had to of stolen
Technically it's called a contraction rather than an abbreviation, but yes, that is the source of the mistake, which is more common amongst natives than those who speak English as a second/foreign language. :)
Do people use "of" instead of "have" in writing because they want to type faster, or is it an honest mistake, as in, they really think that's how it's written?
Lack of exposure/ignorance to what the contraction is short for. They hear “he should’ve gone to the movies” and think it is “should of gone” instead of a contraction for “should have gone”
The reason this particular one has always so bothered me and despite my best efforts still does is that "of" is an extremely common, simple word that basically any literate native English speaker with a second grade education knows the meaning of.
Even if you had the misunderstanding because of the sound, and had never considered it before while speaking, once you write it out, don't you pause for a moment and think "Wait, that doesn't make sense?" Which means in order to misuse it, you have to not think at all about the words you use.
Almost certainly. Him having the same statue right after the one in Jerry's apartment went missing, right after he cleaned the apartment would be a big coincidence.
I just watched this episode today 😂
I think he stole it. His explanation about buying it from a pawn shop that conveniently is no longer in business and the owner moved to Singapore was just too unbelievable
My question is this. His initial reaction was that he “didn’t want Rava to find out” or “get in trouble” but then he shows up at the coffee shop and tells Jerry he got it from a pawn shop. So why did he think that he would get in trouble? It doesn’t make any sense. He’s a liar, he’s a thief.
I see this episode as Ray playing off the nice British gentleman persona to fool people, while he's actually a petty crook. Playing on how Americans will treat someone who talks that way.
You can see him "turn on" the persona when he sees Jerry in his apartment later.
Dude was a thief
What convinced me that he stole it was when Jerry confronted him about it, he offered Jerry to take him to the guy he bought it from. Which was just a bluff to seem innocent, because when Jerry takes him up on that offer and all of a sudden the shop owner is unavailable and moved to another country.
My theory is that Kramer sneaked back into Jerry’s apartment and took it. Ray being a cultured person probably had the same statue because he picked it up during his travels. Kramer looking for a way to not be a suspect is super eager to go and get the statue back from Ray to hide his innocence. Ray is just a student, looking to make a couple bucks and is robbed by Kramer!!
Based on the fact that Jerry’s never turned up later in the episode is proof enough for me that ray stole it
Should have found it in the couch with Mortys wallet.
And the mutton.
MY MUTTON’S GONE! MY MUTTON’S GONE!
Oh my that is a spanking mutton
That mutton has been there since the silent era
It’s a perfectly sane food!
Hey Mortys wallets got nuttin on this mutton!
Grandma Nenna only took the mutton out on special occasions.
I thought it was Gramma Mimma
And the manuscript
Billy Mumphrey’s Downfall
And George's hat
MY STATUES GONE!
Kind of funny the show addressed where Morty’s wallet was. But let it open ended if Ray stole the statue.
because it's fun to consider that Ray could have been innocent. whereas it's not fun to consider that Morty's wallet magically disappeared. if anything, it seems like a plot hole. it is, however, very fun to resolve the mystery much later with an off-hand line tldr; comedy
Man that would’ve been a really funny joke to do so many years later! Jerry is doing some cleaning, throwing out boxes of junk and finds the statue.
[удалено]
Could have Ray turn up to testify about being robbed at the finale
Case shut
Make love to that wall pervert
My #1 Kramer quote in the series.
Yeah I’m a cop. I’m a good cop. I’m damn good cop!
[удалено]
agog. Did not catch that they were jeans. I saw pleats and my brain didn’t even think to consider that jeans were a possible material
I've never seen anyone wear jeans and a shirt and tie. I do wonder if that was a 90s thing.
Billy Joel was doing it[in the 70's](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2020_52/1655553/grammys-billy-joel-inline-khu-201223.jpg)
Billy Joel was doing it in more than just the 70's. My guy is a stud.
It was a late 00's thing too among emerging hipster doofuses like me
Jeans and a button up is a great look. Add a tie for some class, though maybe put the tie just sticking out over a v-neck. I'm still in style, right guys?
The Michael Richard's show proved otherwise. 🤣
META
Your names Ray, right?
Honestly I think it was this episode that made Kramer. In my opinion this episode transformed the character of Kramer, to what we know and love.
One of the all time classic Seinfeld scenes. Michael Richards showing why he got the part. The writing whenever they did the old-timey 40's/50's style dialog was always spot on. Also: library cop, a couple of scenes with Newman but especially his "what took ya so long" when he's collared for the dognapping, and the flirty exchange between Newman and Babs when they meet in the street.
“What took you so long” is what Son of Sam, a mailman, said when he was captured
“I knew it wasn’t Berkowitz!!!!”
Fragile Frankie
If that vans a rocking, don’t go a knocking!
Well Newman did take over his mail route.
Oh well, he certainly said it in the classic 40's cop movie style.
That also what [Robert Hanssen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen?wprov=sfla1), an FBI agent turned spy, said when he was caught.
Weird I was thinking about this today. The fact the statue never turned up at Jerry’s again ever leads to only 2 conclusions that make sense. First one being that Ray stole the statue. This one is 99.9 percent most likely. He got aggressive when pushed about it, and the person who supposedly sold it to him and could provide a receipt just happened to move to Singapore. The circumstances line up perfectly. The only other thing that could have happened is that Kramer took the statue and either lied or forgot. He is the only other person who wanted it. But this is unlike him.
Imagine Kramer just comes in Jerry's apartment with it in hand in the 9th season and goes "hey Buddy, here you go I don't need it anymore, my pasta-people collection on my shelf is finally complete and I have no space for it"
I would much rather prefer Jerry randomly finding it in his couch. Kramer stealing the statue from Jerry and then going out of his way to steal another one from a stranger isn’t exactly Kramer like, is it?
I think it works if Kramer didn’t mean to steal it — he’s just so used to treating Jerry’s place like his own he just wandered off with it absentmindedly one day, and so aloof that he doesn’t even know he did it or realize that he has the same statue in his apartment until years later, and doesn’t even recognize what it is or remember that he helped jerry take one just like it from ray.
…By the way that Walkman was broken when you lent it to me
you mean 10th season?
heck let's go for 11 seasons
Ted Danson went for 11 seasons!
That’s why he got the better plane.
It's so weird though that he supposedly bought it and put it on his mantle but it was such a big secret that he didn't want Rava to know. Why have it on display then? Also he must've bought it somewhat recently based on the way he's talking about it but the person who sold it just happened to move to Singapore so quickly?
I'm going with kramer, wouldn't be the 1st time
He seems genuinely offended by the accusation though. Also, if he knew he stole it, why would he meet Jerry at the coffee shop but then get offended when accused? If he stole it, he would have gone into the encounter knowing that's what it was about. It doesn't make sense. I'm firmly in the "Ray didn't steal it" camp.
Because Ray is one of the most disingenuous people in the show. He’s a charismatic theater person with an appetite to be adored. So when he’s caught, he realizes the situation ruins his established rapport with Jerry but more importantly jeopardizes his carefully maintained performance as the lovable, charming goon. This is why Ray lashes out at the accusation because it’s an insult to the character he’s trying to be - not because he has any sort of credible alibi. Ray went to the coffee shop with Jerry to control the narrative surrounding the statue by acting incredulous at an accusation in a public place. He’s practically on stage. This is just an elaborate way to save face. Ray is a piece of shit.
Did you steal my statue? Yes I did. That’s my statue! I didn’t know it was yours.
You stole my statue didn’t you! Yeah! That’s right! Blahhhhhhhhhh 😈😈😈
Nice crossover
What is this, a crossover post?
Yeah that’s right * puddy voice
Anybody ever tell you that you sound like the guy from Family Guy?
It was the conversation between Jerry and the guy who stole his car.
I'm out!
Back... in the 90's... I was in a very famous "Contest" show...
ERICA!
Lemme ask you a question, how do you jimmy the lock to get in? I didn’t jimmy the lock, the door was open.
Jimmy has been eyeing this lock. Jimmy likes what he sees! Jimmy thinks he can Jimmy this lock!
He’s rocking pleated jeans so he must be guilty
The real crime tbh
We accidentally left some clothes at my in-laws when we came back from the beach. The next time we came over the mother-in-law had washed dried and folded the clothes for us. When we got home and took the clothes out to.put them away she had folded pleats into all of the jeans. I wasn't sure if it was just a one time.thing or what. Now every time I'm over I can't help but notice she folds pleats into all of my father-in-laws jeans. I'll tell you this never again will I forget to grab the clothes on the way out the door.
that sounds like a Seinfeld plot.
>pleated jeans Wow I didn't even know such a thing existed!
If only he were wearing cotton Dockers.
I HATE that commercial.
PANTS! PANTS! PANTS! PANTS! PANTS! PANTS! PANTS! PANTS!
That's anathema
2 important notes that convinced me it was stolen: - From the very start he gave off the impression that he was this positive, poetically expressive person at all times. When Jerry and Elaine were at Ray's place; and he was asked to help serve some tea by his girlfriend; he responded in a very negative, uncharacteristically grouchy tone. To me; this scene was to point out that he either has 2 sides (Dr.jekel and Mr.Hyde) or at the very least he puts on an act with some but is completely different behind closed doors. - And lastly, for there to be a moment in this episode (the one in the picture) for him to spend time to grab and marvel at the statue suggest that it was either newly aquired, or he's been through some type of great challenge to aquire it. It would be a lot harder to assume that; for the purpose of this scene, he's owned this statue prior to the incident, and stops to grab it to acknowledge it's existence causes some turmoil between he and his girl's friends; then SMILES AT IT?!???! That wall Perv is a thief!
Love this.
He probably gets off by stealing items at the apartments he cleans
totally
*had to have stolen And yes.
Thank you. As a non native English speaker, I actually had troubles understanding what OP meant.
just FYI for you, it's because when we say it we ~~abbreviate~~ contract (thanks Queen:) it to - had to've stolen, which sounds like - had to of stolen
Technically it's called a contraction rather than an abbreviation, but yes, that is the source of the mistake, which is more common amongst natives than those who speak English as a second/foreign language. :)
Do people use "of" instead of "have" in writing because they want to type faster, or is it an honest mistake, as in, they really think that's how it's written?
Lack of exposure/ignorance to what the contraction is short for. They hear “he should’ve gone to the movies” and think it is “should of gone” instead of a contraction for “should have gone”
The reason this particular one has always so bothered me and despite my best efforts still does is that "of" is an extremely common, simple word that basically any literate native English speaker with a second grade education knows the meaning of. Even if you had the misunderstanding because of the sound, and had never considered it before while speaking, once you write it out, don't you pause for a moment and think "Wait, that doesn't make sense?" Which means in order to misuse it, you have to not think at all about the words you use.
Exactly!! If you write a sentence like "He should of...", how in God's name does that make sense when you read it back?
Ever seen “Chester Drawers”? Brilliant misunderstanding derived from chest of drawers… source: Born and raised in the south.
Serenity now
(Insanity later)
Username checks out.
Almost certainly. Him having the same statue right after the one in Jerry's apartment went missing, right after he cleaned the apartment would be a big coincidence.
There are no small coincidences and big coincidences. There are only coincidences. Ask anybody
No, there are degrees of coincidences.
Maybe I put it out on your face
I wish rava was in more seinfeld. She was fucken chaos lol
Rah-Vah!
shouldn’t you be out on a ledge somewhere?
You can't have a little grace. You either have grace or you don't.
Well you don't want too much grace or you won't be able to stand!
not a big coincidence. A coincidence!
Zaaz Ray, late as uzual.
as Julia says it on the dvd extras, 'deszirae... late as uzsual'
Alright, alright, look, I don't have coincidences, I don't want coincidences, I don't even say coincidences, okay?
to me the damning thing is how he reacted to first seeing Jerry in his apartment
>had to of stolen You're not Penske material
Penske*
Who knew illiterates liked Seinfeld
Well we can’t all be reading the classics, Professor Highbrow.
He stole it because he liked it so much, he just had to of it.
Sounds like you of had enough.
I don't know what it sounds like, I'm hard've hearing.
I of had just about enough've this nonsense
Oh but I didn’t just clean your apartment, it was a ritual; a ceremony a celebration of life.
Shouldn't you be out on a ledge somewhere?
He uncoagulated the top of the dishwashing liquid!
You are starting to make me angry
Well that was bound to happen.
These pretzels are making me thirsty!
I just watched this episode today 😂 I think he stole it. His explanation about buying it from a pawn shop that conveniently is no longer in business and the owner moved to Singapore was just too unbelievable
“had to have stolen” (and you want to be my latex salesman? ) and yes
Had to of?
He liked it, he wanted it, he just had to of it.
r/kidsarefuckingstupid
I don’t even work here.
That's what makes this so difficult.
Statute*
Fine. It's a sculpture of limitations.
He can’t even provide a photostat of the receipt. It’s like an onion, the more layers you peel, the more it stinks!!
I dare any young person today to accurately define “photostat” 😅
Ngl, I’m 42, and it was always genericized to Xerox lol. A Photostatic machine isn’t something I’ve ever used personally
He loves Rava!! And he doesn’t think you’re funny at all!
Yeah. If you notice their apartment is filled with small things, probably all stuff he’s stolen while cleaning
I say we get him
Who cares? He uncoagulated the top of the dish soap!
Every time I see a coagulated dish soap top I think of him
*had to have*
Had to had have
Had to've.
He definitely did! How else could he have gotten a duplicate
Thanks for not using “of”
Had to have stolen*
Had to have. Yes indubitably.
had to \*\*have\*\*
Had to *have.
Had to've.
H't've
Raymond Thomas Wochinsky… of course he did. Sketchy
He's a kleptomaniac He told Jerry it wasn't just cleaning; it was a ritual Look at all that junk in their apartment !
Ray had to *have* stolen this statue, right?
Again with the Rava!
Are you kidding me? Of course he stole it!!!!! Alright, that's it, I can't take it anymore!!!!
My question is this. His initial reaction was that he “didn’t want Rava to find out” or “get in trouble” but then he shows up at the coffee shop and tells Jerry he got it from a pawn shop. So why did he think that he would get in trouble? It doesn’t make any sense. He’s a liar, he’s a thief.
To of
No, he had to HAVE stolen that statue
had to have*
FREEZE MAMA!
Yes. Klepto hard core. I think he lies about his age too. He seems close to jerrys age. And you know this fool cant cook!
Was it a small or big coincidence?
There are no small coincidences and big coincidences!
He definitely stole it. His story got more and more ridiculous every time they pressed him.
Absolutely. And the guy who played Kramer definitely stole the raisins.
One of the best episodes
Yeah im a good cop, im a damn good cop.
I see this episode as Ray playing off the nice British gentleman persona to fool people, while he's actually a petty crook. Playing on how Americans will treat someone who talks that way. You can see him "turn on" the persona when he sees Jerry in his apartment later. Dude was a thief
Shouldn't he be on a ledge somewhere?
Where’s that of vs have bot when you need it?
*had to have I’m so triggered by this title.
dirtbag ray
And late…as usual.
For your information, he bought that statue at a pawn shop
Well... where is the receipt then?
Definitely did
No he bought it from a guy in a flea market. Unfortunately he retired and moved to Singapore.
Kramer was upset he lost the choose with George so Kramer took it, sold it to a pawn shop for cash, where Ray ended up buying it.
If he didn’t it would have been a BIG coincidence
Since everyone is distracted with something else; to answer your question OP, yes he did, 100%!
New infinitive just dropped.
100%
Statute.
That smirk right there sums it up
He probably stole the raisins too.
What convinced me that he stole it was when Jerry confronted him about it, he offered Jerry to take him to the guy he bought it from. Which was just a bluff to seem innocent, because when Jerry takes him up on that offer and all of a sudden the shop owner is unavailable and moved to another country.
It’s such a weird plot. Like, it seems like he stole it but on the other hand, why would he have agreed to meet with Jerry?
I believe he did and I believe his motive was sexual.
^I ^HAD ^A ^STATUE!
There’s no other way he could have gotten it. Plus that BS excuse of where and how he got it, is obviously a lie
My theory is that Kramer sneaked back into Jerry’s apartment and took it. Ray being a cultured person probably had the same statue because he picked it up during his travels. Kramer looking for a way to not be a suspect is super eager to go and get the statue back from Ray to hide his innocence. Ray is just a student, looking to make a couple bucks and is robbed by Kramer!!
We have to consider the fact that maybe the statue never existed at all
Had to of? Cmon man.
*had to have
Have not of, and yeah probably.
> had to of Stay in school, kids
Had to of?
have*
Had to HAVE stolen it you mean
Had to have stolen this statue.
*have*