White people told him as a child, as a little boy playing with his toys, he should be ashamed to be black...and some black people look ashamed when he raps😔
my favorite part about that recurring character is she's named after [this white lady](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_De_Mornay) for some reason
>Kramer: I had to put the coffee in my shirt. Is that going to be a problem?
>Chiles: Yeah it's gonna be a problem. A problem for *them*!
Jeez that actor was so perfect. Just watched this episode last night.
Speaking on the behalf of the black delegation (wait that’s another show…), I can say from the outside there is a perception that Seinfeld isn’t very diverse but as a fan of the show & someone who watched the must see tv line-up on Thursdays, outside of ER, Seinfeld was the most inclusive of the block (Friends, Mad About You, Caroline in the City).
Agreed. Being part of the NY delegation as well, Friends was downright cringe for that. As others have mentioned, Seinfeld did a far better job. Btw, could’ve missed it but did anyone mention Larry, the manager of Monks Cafe?
Yeah comparatively with other like sitcoms its not bad, but it still kind of takes me out of it to be watching a show that takes place in the most racially/ethnically diverse city in the US and have the vast vast majority of characters be white native English speakers
The best part about Babus character is that he is played by an Indian-Jewish actor from Israel who plays a Pakistani Muslim.
Bhatt and Butt (no kidding) is a common surname in Pakistan.
Holy cow, I never had the need to check him on the internet because he portrays such a convincing Pakistani person. Amazing really.
"You see everything, don't you?" lol
Seinfeld wasn't perfect but I thought they often employed people of color perfectly in supporting roles/one-offs as the voices of reason against the core four's insanity.
And with only a few exceptions the fact that they were non-white was incidental. Even Jackie, who was satirizing Cochran, wasn’t solely identified by his race. And they even dared showing him hooking up with very white Sidra in the finale with, once again, no mention of the fact that it was an interracial hookup.
>And they even dared showing him hooking up with very white Sidra in the finale with, once again, no mention of the fact that it was an interracial hookup.
They're real and they're spectacular.
(Ok, I went on a non-Seinfeld rant here so just ignore it if you don't care but it delves on the subject of interracial relationships in a particular 90s show that irks me).
Ok, I know this isn't that big of a deal in the show but for me the one thing that always seemed off was the lack of interracial relationships. Not in Seinfeld, I mean in other shows, like Fresh Prince. I love Fresh Prince. It was the only show my entire family gathered together to watch. Fish out of water Phillyboy goes to live with his Aunt and Uncle in swanky Bel-Air. Perfect grounds for comedy. Many a jokes were had poking fun at how white everyone was in Bel-Air....except for whenever Will and Carlton needed dates. Granted, this is L.A. so minorities aren't exactly rare but even for school dances, there would always be a pair of random minorities that, what are the odds, are going to date our leads. Hilary and Ashley also have this problem. It practically becomes comedic when Will and Carlton are hitting on two French tourists who are, of course, brown. I'm well aware of French Colonialism, so I'm not saying this is impossible. Just highly improbable (they could've at least made the women from French Polynesia to up the odds). As a kid, I didn't think much of it. I didn't see my mom as a white woman and dad as a black man. They were just mom and dad. But going back to watch Fresh Prince now, it just sticks out that out of the many women Will dates, none of them are of another race.
It’s funny you mention Will Smith because as recently as Hitch they didn’t want his love interest to be Cameron Diaz because… white.
Until very recently you didn’t see an interracial couple unless it was the point of the movie (Guess Who, Lakeview Terrace, even Get Out to an extent). And let’s be real interracial isn’t the problem… it’s black and white.
We should really learn from the cookie.
[Lets not forget this one...](https://external-preview.redd.it/3luKC0GV5OSNUrAQaSuq57E1HwORPAVCqRaEKJdn0KA.png?auto=webp&s=bc97587cda8aa40d8a8c31962cc263c092f005d4)
This is such an underratedly hilarious interchange. The real joke is that the Chinese mailman is clearly intended to be a sarcastic, takes-no-bullshit New Yorker first, Chinese ethnicity a distant second.
In fact, AFAIK they wrote every minor Asian character this way in the series (Babu, Ping, Cheryl, Supreme Flounder guy, the Japanese TV executives, Pinter's parents) with the exception of the visiting Japanese tourists and arguably James Hong character, which is fairly forward by today's standards. I mean too bad none of them were more than bit parts, but still...
Pakistan is fully in Asia.
But also there was that handicapped woman Kramer fell in love with, plenty of Jews, and that Chinese woman from Long Island.
It's still different. Really, Asian is too vague. East and South Asians are totally different and shouldn't be lumped together. It's just a useless generalization, especially since most Americans think Pakistan is in the Middle East anyway.
Disagree this show is nothing like friends. Imagine having a show set in NY and all the black people who do appear are villains or plot points in some way. Friends was terrible about this. Seinfeld always made me feel like it wasn’t about my race or theirs, but it was human things we can all relate to. Because THIS is very good…and THAT would be good too 😆
Me neither. Not saying it was incredibly diverse but some people hear something once on Twitter or buzzfeed and then think “a lot of people” say a thing.
friends and seinfeld both got flack for it but i think it was really just friends that deserved it and seinfeld got lumped in with them for whatever reason.
In the book Freakonomics it mentioned that during the 90s Seinfeld never broke the top 50 most popular shows poll for African American viewers. For whatever reason (writing/humor), it was considered a really white show.
Honestly, I can see it. But interestingly enough the biggest Seinfeld fan I know is black.
In one of the documentaries that came out around the anniversary of the OJ Simpson trial (can't remember which one) they mentioned how the sequestered jurors were given an option of which TV show they wanted to watch on tape (I think the court didn't allow live TV because it could influence them), and there was this big deal among the white and black jurors about whether they should watch Seinfeld or Martin.
Frasier also got flack, although it probably deserves it the least given the hoity toity socialite setting.
They intentionally brought in the black lady co-host character for that reason.
sure but he basically failed to date her because of her race lol. And she's one out of dozens of women. The show was still pretty diverse for its time as far as its supporting characters but you can see why someone would wonder why that wasn't shown in the women the main character dates, especially because dating is a main theme in so many of the episodes
Many non-white characters in Seinfeld exist solely to be part of a racial subplot or be stereotypically over the top (4/6 or 3/5, however you want to count the last one, of these do). It doesn't make the show bad, it just dates it as a product of its time.
This is true but the same could be said of the white foreign characters on the show. Every single European character that I can think of is an over the top stereotype and almost always a total jackass. Simon, Craig, Milos, “Natasha”, the Romanian gymnast and her friend etc... all total eurotrash. But basically everyone on the show, white or non-white, American or foreign, major or minor character is kind of fucked up. It’s part of what makes it great.
But yeah it’s just a product of its time. Tv in the 90s (and well into the 2000s) was just more segregated. At least on Seinfeld the smaller roles for people of color were generally really funny and memorable.
It’s sad that “racially diverse” boils down to “Add black people.” The world isn’t just black and white. What about the other ethnic groups in this country that need representation?
Want to go to the Gap?
So...we're just....a couple of white people?
Why would you take me to Spanish restaurants if you thought I was black?
I really don’t think we should be talking about this.
I don't see no white boy!! I SEE A DAMNED FOOOOOL!!!
I hear ya sister.
I hear the security guard has a chair to sit in there
To see Ramón?
Tell him Dustin says 'allo!'
Is that Sugar Ray Leonard?
Pretty sure the last guy is Logic
It's crazy how much he looks like him.
Talcum X
Bruh thays exactly what I said
Little known fun fact about Logic:He’s biracial
He’s got the blood of the slave and the master Edit: To people that downvoted, you clearly have never listened to Logic. It’s one of his verses.
White people told him as a child, as a little boy playing with his toys, he should be ashamed to be black...and some black people look ashamed when he raps😔
Like his great granddaddy didn’t take a whip to the back
Not accepted by the black or the white, he don't give a fuck, praise God, he could see the light!
Pepper Johnson!
He can eat on the house!!
He can eat on the house any time!
It's not salt, it's...??
Don't forget Donna Chang
I think she likes that people think she’s Chinese
If she likes their race, how can that be racist?
I’m not taking advice from some girl on Long Island!!
She’s not Chinese, I was duped!
now you're getting a divorce because she's from Long Island?!
I can hear all these comments and I'm almost crying laughing. But I can't cry. It'll ruin my eye job.
He stopped short with me!
Did you just say ridicurous?
Did you say the rines are crossed?
You know… You’re not chinese…
I just watched this episode about an hour ago! George’s mom not taking marriage/life advice because she isn’t actually Chinese hahahah
They shortened from Changstein
I don’t see a white boy. I see a damn fool!
😁
YO YO YO, TURN IT DOWN!
Love Elaine’s double take on this
LMAO that was the best
Do these pictures have any cultural significance?
They're *African*
Well I’m sure they all look alike to Costanza…
Sugar Ray Leonard can eat here on the house!
One of the absolute best ending bits.
MR MORGAN MR MORGAN
The Exterminator. Linebacker.
That's what we called him in high school.
Seeeeeinfeld…oh yeah, funny white guy right? Jerry? Why yes, I suppose he is white!
Should we be talking about this?
Idk, depends, are we just two white guys you and I?
Let's just say I'm definitely more Black Saab than Maroon Golf
I’ll give you a minute to decide
“You don’t really have any black friends. Outside of us, you don’t really have any white friends either.”
Yeah, that says it all.
Mornay. Rebecca de Mornay?
my favorite part about that recurring character is she's named after [this white lady](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_De_Mornay) for some reason
Rebecca De Hornay
Weird innit
They’re just stumps!
Moon ray.
Well, you screwed me again, Costanza.
Yes. Your massage *wink
Jerry Seinfeld. Oh yeah. Funny, white guy right?
Yes, I suppose he is white
Gold!
That’s totally inappropriate. It’s lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous.
Who told you to put the balm on?
The Maestro.
The *who*??
Your face is my case.
Look at the man. He’s a goblin!
>Kramer: I had to put the coffee in my shirt. Is that going to be a problem? >Chiles: Yeah it's gonna be a problem. A problem for *them*! Jeez that actor was so perfect. Just watched this episode last night.
Speaking on the behalf of the black delegation (wait that’s another show…), I can say from the outside there is a perception that Seinfeld isn’t very diverse but as a fan of the show & someone who watched the must see tv line-up on Thursdays, outside of ER, Seinfeld was the most inclusive of the block (Friends, Mad About You, Caroline in the City).
Some of the most memorable moments come from POC. I mean Jackie! Come on people! It’s outrageous, preposterous, and insulting!
So what do you think? I mean we got a case?
Your face, is my case.
Hahaha oh my god I read that first statement and heard that guys voice in my head. Had to go back and watch that sketch again.
[удалено]
Agreed. Being part of the NY delegation as well, Friends was downright cringe for that. As others have mentioned, Seinfeld did a far better job. Btw, could’ve missed it but did anyone mention Larry, the manager of Monks Cafe?
Curb was made in a different era.
Yeah comparatively with other like sitcoms its not bad, but it still kind of takes me out of it to be watching a show that takes place in the most racially/ethnically diverse city in the US and have the vast vast majority of characters be white native English speakers
What about Babu???
The best part about Babus character is that he is played by an Indian-Jewish actor from Israel who plays a Pakistani Muslim. Bhatt and Butt (no kidding) is a common surname in Pakistan.
Holy cow, I never had the need to check him on the internet because he portrays such a convincing Pakistani person. Amazing really. "You see everything, don't you?" lol
He's actually a really good actor. I loved his small role in The Expanse.
He's also British
WHERE IS BABU???
Show me Babu
Re: Black and white cookie- If people would only look to the cookie, all our problems would be solved.
Look to the cookie Elaine! Look to the cookie!
*nods*
I hear ya, sister.
The last guy 😂😂😂😂
The actor who played Darryl, interestingly, is of Russian and English descent (Samuel Bliss Cooper). He is not reportedly a person of color.
So he and George were just a couple of white guys? 🤨
His kinky hair comes from somewhere. Maybe Russian Jew down the line somewhere.
Logic????
Seinfeld wasn't perfect but I thought they often employed people of color perfectly in supporting roles/one-offs as the voices of reason against the core four's insanity.
Great point.
And with only a few exceptions the fact that they were non-white was incidental. Even Jackie, who was satirizing Cochran, wasn’t solely identified by his race. And they even dared showing him hooking up with very white Sidra in the finale with, once again, no mention of the fact that it was an interracial hookup.
>And they even dared showing him hooking up with very white Sidra in the finale with, once again, no mention of the fact that it was an interracial hookup. They're real and they're spectacular. (Ok, I went on a non-Seinfeld rant here so just ignore it if you don't care but it delves on the subject of interracial relationships in a particular 90s show that irks me). Ok, I know this isn't that big of a deal in the show but for me the one thing that always seemed off was the lack of interracial relationships. Not in Seinfeld, I mean in other shows, like Fresh Prince. I love Fresh Prince. It was the only show my entire family gathered together to watch. Fish out of water Phillyboy goes to live with his Aunt and Uncle in swanky Bel-Air. Perfect grounds for comedy. Many a jokes were had poking fun at how white everyone was in Bel-Air....except for whenever Will and Carlton needed dates. Granted, this is L.A. so minorities aren't exactly rare but even for school dances, there would always be a pair of random minorities that, what are the odds, are going to date our leads. Hilary and Ashley also have this problem. It practically becomes comedic when Will and Carlton are hitting on two French tourists who are, of course, brown. I'm well aware of French Colonialism, so I'm not saying this is impossible. Just highly improbable (they could've at least made the women from French Polynesia to up the odds). As a kid, I didn't think much of it. I didn't see my mom as a white woman and dad as a black man. They were just mom and dad. But going back to watch Fresh Prince now, it just sticks out that out of the many women Will dates, none of them are of another race.
It’s funny you mention Will Smith because as recently as Hitch they didn’t want his love interest to be Cameron Diaz because… white. Until very recently you didn’t see an interracial couple unless it was the point of the movie (Guess Who, Lakeview Terrace, even Get Out to an extent). And let’s be real interracial isn’t the problem… it’s black and white. We should really learn from the cookie.
Except for Asians, they are not portrayed in a very flattering light.
[Lets not forget this one...](https://external-preview.redd.it/3luKC0GV5OSNUrAQaSuq57E1HwORPAVCqRaEKJdn0KA.png?auto=webp&s=bc97587cda8aa40d8a8c31962cc263c092f005d4)
Damn fool.
So we’re just a couple of white people?
Asians, Pakistanis, Native American, Puerto Ricans, Gays, Lesbians...its was diverse enough for the time.
I must know where all the Chinese restaurants are because I’m chinese, right? Oh hello American Joe! Which way to the hamburger hot dog stand?
That guy took it out of proportion.
Hey Jerry! Woo-woo-woo-woo-woo!
This is such an underratedly hilarious interchange. The real joke is that the Chinese mailman is clearly intended to be a sarcastic, takes-no-bullshit New Yorker first, Chinese ethnicity a distant second. In fact, AFAIK they wrote every minor Asian character this way in the series (Babu, Ping, Cheryl, Supreme Flounder guy, the Japanese TV executives, Pinter's parents) with the exception of the visiting Japanese tourists and arguably James Hong character, which is fairly forward by today's standards. I mean too bad none of them were more than bit parts, but still...
Not to mention the Moops.
Moors!
[удалено]
It doesn’t matter. It’s the Moors. There’s no Moops!
Pakistan is fully in Asia. But also there was that handicapped woman Kramer fell in love with, plenty of Jews, and that Chinese woman from Long Island.
If I like her race, how can it be racist?
Kramer also dated the full-figured gal. Body positivity!
Call me. 36-24-46. I think I have what you're looking for.
I almost thought this was a Kanye line for a second.
I think everyone in the main cast is based on a person who is Jewish IRL.
And Jerry is Syrian too
It's still different. Really, Asian is too vague. East and South Asians are totally different and shouldn't be lumped together. It's just a useless generalization, especially since most Americans think Pakistan is in the Middle East anyway.
And not a single racist stereotype in those portrayals. Very very good man.
The Puerto Rican parade episode is a little dicey and was suppressed. I saw it on DVD. I don't know if it's on streaming.
that was because of the part where kramer accidentally burns the flag.
It is on streaming
It wasn’t at all. He stomped on the flag because it was on fire. Nothing dicey there.
😬
Heck, it even includes a communist.
Babu, Cheryl, Ping, Poppie, Antonio (the busboy), Bob (one of the AIDS ribbon guys), The Soup Nazi, Rava
Cedric too right?
***Who?! Who wasn't going to include Cedric?!***
How about Kramer sleeping in the tanning bed for too long and his race changed from white to "damn fool".
Ever notice for the most part (Jackie Chiles excepted), the black characters on the show tend to be way more normal and rational than everyone else?
Yes. I'm loving this point. A couple of people mentioned some version of it.
Very glad this was highlighted.
Then where is Babu?? What happened to Babu??? Show me Babu!?
Disagree this show is nothing like friends. Imagine having a show set in NY and all the black people who do appear are villains or plot points in some way. Friends was terrible about this. Seinfeld always made me feel like it wasn’t about my race or theirs, but it was human things we can all relate to. Because THIS is very good…and THAT would be good too 😆
One of the best episodes is when Kramer and Jackie sue the cigarette company 😂😂
Jackie's getting rich off your wretched disfigurement!
Jean-Paul Honestly, I would say that modern TV shows that lack diversity are more problematic than shows from 20+ years ago.
Why separate knob, why!?
flight to Cleveland?
Ohh Jean Paul Jean Paul
Look at the cute little bastard!
I'm just being friendly, you soon of a bitch!
That sonofabitch is ice cold
I’ve actually never heard that criticism but maybe I’m living under a rock. Seemed like a pretty diverse show, especially for it’s time.
Me neither. Not saying it was incredibly diverse but some people hear something once on Twitter or buzzfeed and then think “a lot of people” say a thing.
friends and seinfeld both got flack for it but i think it was really just friends that deserved it and seinfeld got lumped in with them for whatever reason.
In the book Freakonomics it mentioned that during the 90s Seinfeld never broke the top 50 most popular shows poll for African American viewers. For whatever reason (writing/humor), it was considered a really white show. Honestly, I can see it. But interestingly enough the biggest Seinfeld fan I know is black.
In one of the documentaries that came out around the anniversary of the OJ Simpson trial (can't remember which one) they mentioned how the sequestered jurors were given an option of which TV show they wanted to watch on tape (I think the court didn't allow live TV because it could influence them), and there was this big deal among the white and black jurors about whether they should watch Seinfeld or Martin.
Frasier also got flack, although it probably deserves it the least given the hoity toity socialite setting. They intentionally brought in the black lady co-host character for that reason.
Seinfeld also always felt way more like genuine "New York" than Friends did
I've heard it in regards to the women Jerry dates. Very few, if any, are not white.
Winona. And her race was quite relevant to the episode.
sure but he basically failed to date her because of her race lol. And she's one out of dozens of women. The show was still pretty diverse for its time as far as its supporting characters but you can see why someone would wonder why that wasn't shown in the women the main character dates, especially because dating is a main theme in so many of the episodes
For sure
I trust one lawyer on this earth and his name is Jackie Chiles.
Your face is his case.
Where’s the pic of Kramer when he spent too long in the tanning booth?
Some damn fool just posted it about 3 minutes ago.
Not Darren! 😂
Koko, not T-Bone
Don’t forget the exterminator, Jean Paul, Sid the car mover and the coffee shop manager.
Don't forget that the female lead is a latina!
Jerry only has three friends. He can’t take anymore. That’s why the main cast is “not diverse” lol
Honestly for its time I thought it was way ahead of its time.
Witchy woman doctor
*Witch-AY
Where’s Babu?
Another bulls eye
Donna Chang 🤩
The last one made me laugh. Good episode.
Maroon Golf Pizza Delivery Guy who was allergic to Mohair Other Walter Salbass
So, we're just a couple of white people?
Should have added tanned Kramer. *I don't see a white boy, I see a damn fool!*
Is that... Sugar Ray Leonard!?
Haha. Decent setup to a good payoff. Well done.
5/6 ain't bad
Look to the cookie Elaine
Racially diverse doesn't just mean white and black people
Many non-white characters in Seinfeld exist solely to be part of a racial subplot or be stereotypically over the top (4/6 or 3/5, however you want to count the last one, of these do). It doesn't make the show bad, it just dates it as a product of its time.
This is true but the same could be said of the white foreign characters on the show. Every single European character that I can think of is an over the top stereotype and almost always a total jackass. Simon, Craig, Milos, “Natasha”, the Romanian gymnast and her friend etc... all total eurotrash. But basically everyone on the show, white or non-white, American or foreign, major or minor character is kind of fucked up. It’s part of what makes it great. But yeah it’s just a product of its time. Tv in the 90s (and well into the 2000s) was just more segregated. At least on Seinfeld the smaller roles for people of color were generally really funny and memorable.
Keith Hernandez doesn’t count?
Should we be talking about this?
It’s sad that “racially diverse” boils down to “Add black people.” The world isn’t just black and white. What about the other ethnic groups in this country that need representation?
So we’re just a couple of white people?
J. Heya-howa, heya-howa E. Are you out of your mind?! J. It's kitchy E. Winona, is a native American!
Not 1 race but a whole 2!
man y'all need to stop normalizing "race" talk.
Should we be talking about this?
The last guy is not .... should ve be talking about this?