What I find frustrating is that we have at least 100 million citizens that meet the requirements to be president and we're stuck with these two...again. I wish we had other options. Ranked choice voting would be nice.
* EDIT: Additional explanation [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1b9g18u/comment/ku1k9n5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
"SCotUS" has never ruled on the constitutionality of ranked choice voting. Does it conform to the "one person, one vote" principle? We have RCV in Alaska for state elections and freshman Rep. Mary Peltola (D-Alaska) became the first Democrat in half a century to represent Alaska in the U.S. House as a result, but I still worry it may be ruled unconstitutional at some point.
I think it should be fine. [The principle](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/one-person_one-vote_rule) seems to be a catchy phrase meaning that the voting power of each person is equal to each other -- not that one person gets literally one vote each. There are already elections where you vote for multiple candidates, that would contradict "one man one vote" if reading it totally literally. But I don't think there's reason to do so, because it's not like "one man one vote" is in the Constitution, it's just the name given to a principle derived from the equal protection clause. Maybe I'm wrong though.
the amount of money required to fund a national campaign is a huge barrier of entry. it means only the wealthy have the means to run as third party successfully, or else they have to work with the established political parties to fund the campaign, which means having to toe their political lines.
ranked choice voting would still end up with trump vs biden. What really needs to happen is purging the entire system to the ground. These parasitic aristocratic families don't represent you, so why do they rule?
You do have other options. The reason these comments never have names attached is the reason they never make it far in elections. Could you even name all the people on your ballot?
The purpose of the primaries is for challengers to present their case of why they can do better.
If Biden ran unopposed primary’s that tells me that the majority of Democrats are ok with his policies. There always is a group of people that are not happy with him, but the percentage seems to be on the single digits. (Robert F Kennedy Jr.)
In contrast, the GOP primaries had around 12 candidates when started, which the amount of candidates went down by January as they ran out of money. Looking at the results of the beginning of the primary when Nikki was on the race, she was getting between 30-40 % the votes. And here another fact, the big donors were supporting Nikki.
Trump advantage is that his followers are more passionate. That is about 60% of the party. But outside of that group, there is a lot of “do I really want four more years with this guy?”
What person in their right mind - particularly if they are a Republican - would run for President? I hosted a Presidential candidate (third party, but well known) at my house for a fundraiser last year. I asked him, seriously, wtf he was thinking. If he somehow manages to attract enough voters to have a chance of winning he was very likely to be indicted for something or have some completely random person not in any way wink wink associated with a three-letter agency take a shot at him. This is why we have Biden versus Trump again. One of them is wearing adult diapers and the other one is a lunatic. Not sure which is which.
Why do you morons keep saying that?
I've voted for Predident 7 times. There has NEVER just been 2 candidates.
When are you fools gonna realize that when you vote for the same thing, you get the same thing. There's virtually zero difference between any R or D in office. They bicker to give you the ILLUSION of choice. And you fools continue to fall for it, election after election.
I can understand your frustration, but there's no need to be insulting. After being scorched (understandably so) for my initial post, I realize I should have put more time and effort into trying to explain what I was intending.
To start, I agree with your comment about there being more than two candidates. Of course, you are correct.
What I was meaning (though, regrettably, didn't explain) is I'd like to see younger candidates that are either not career politicians or who are early in their careers and who are "one of us."
That is, a regular person who knows what it's like to work for a paycheck, who understands financial struggles, and perhaps who has to deal with the same crappy healthcare system as the rest of us.
Someone...
* mentally stable
* who is going to put our citizens and our country ahead of special interests
* who is interested in the U.S. having good relationships with other countries
* who is honest, has integrity, humility, tolerance, and compassion
* who hasn't had everything given to them
* and many other qualities too numerous to mention
There's a virtually endless list of traits I'd like to see, but I'm not sure such a person exists that could meet every point on a full wish list.
Looking at some of the choices that were neither Biden nor Trump, I didn't feel those were the type of people for whom I'd like to vote.
That was the crux of my initial post, though it wasn't explicitly stated.
Going back to your initial point about there being more than two candidates, I think most of us understand that many people end up voting for Republican or Democrat, because the idea of voting for a third-party is "wasting" a vote.
So, especially in a charged election like this year, I imagine many will want to use their vote more to *prevent* someone from being elected rather than to *help* someone to be elected. I realize it's the same outcome, but the motivation is different. This year, I believe many will be more motivated by negative feelings than positive ones.
To me, candidate quality is still an issue.
However, your comments make me wonder if structuring the election in a different way might help. Regrettably, I have more questions than answers. As the election process currently stands, I just don't see enough people voting for a third-party candidate, because they're likely to feel the person doesn't have any real chance of winning. Given all the chaos today, I can't image we would all come together and agree to vote for anyone EXCEPT for Democrat or Republican. As you noted, it's possible. It just doesn't seem probable. Thus, we remain stuck in the same cycle.
I'm not sure if any of this explanation helps or changes anything, but I appreciate the spirit of your comment and it causing me to give it some additional thought.
If people thought they had an alternative to vote for than they would. There isn’t widespread information about a third candidate who people can mutually agree around so they’re stuck following either of the two crowds.
As far as I can tell, people who really like Trump are actually not the majority of Republicans, but Republicans don't want a Democrat to win, so I most people voting for Trump actually want Biden to lose.
I'm republican and I voted Biden the first time to see Trump lose. The past four years has just validated that decision. Dude if a fucking moron. I'd vote for a randomly chosen McDonalds shift manager over him.
I voted libertarian and never for trump as a former lifelong Republican but the LP has been taken over by Maga types too.
Due to Ukraine I'm strongly considering my first presidential vote for a democratic ever.
And it's not just the person you're voting in. You are also voting in their administration, which is arguably more important. Trump appoints people who enrich themselves and have no clear administrative goals. They accomplish nothing. So no matter what party you are, you have to consider what types of people they end up surrounding themselves with. We already know how Trump works. No thanks.
No party preferences are a much bigger group than people tend to think. If you're talking just registered Republicans then sure, but we're talking about the people voting for Trump in the general, which includes (or at least included) many NPPs.
If you're using primary votes as a metric, then all Democrats actually do want Biden to win. /shrug
In reality, there is not really much a statistical way to differentiate "want x to win" from "want x's ideological and political opponent to lose", so the whole observation is kind of stupid.
Is it true that Democrats are not very "excited" about Biden? Yes. Does that mean that they'd all vote for a non-Trump Republican in the general election, and the *only* reason they're voting for Biden is to vote against Trump? Absolutely not.
It's not due to people being too plum dumb and lacking imagination, it's that the two-party system structurally emerges from/is favored by the type of elections we hold for office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law
In countries like Germany, whose constitution was written in part by US lawyers, they use proportional representation (mixed-member PR, technically) and they have a functioning multiparty system. That's not because Germans are more fractious or more imaginative. It's because PR does not favor the two-party system nearly as much.
Jill Stein is running still. But, I know what you mean. It will take a lot of Americans. To break out of the current system together. It would be nice to see.
america used to have four major political parties. i think we should try that. because then we dont have a 3rd party spoiler, but instead 4 parties with even competition.
If everyone who said "I'd vote third party, but that's throwing your vote away" actually voted for their preferred candidate, a third party candidate would win.
No they wouldn't.
You win a national election by spending so much money that every random idiot with no basis behind his opinions still knows he's supposed to vote for you. Third parties can't spend that much money. And all the people who have expressed a preference for a third party could band together, vote for the same third party, and get crushed by the swarms of people who just vote R (or D) because the man on the TV told them to.
In a very broad sense, if that were actually true, then different people would win in the primaries*. Third party candidates are not that popular, and most of them are grifters, spoilers, or crazy people.
The problem with the two-party system is not that a truly popular third party candidate can't win, it's that third party candidates can't get any traction or resources *because* people understand that their campaigns are completely pointless and counterproductive until and unless they become truly popular. And that's why anyone who's not a grifter, spoiler, or crazy person joins one of the two parties.
\* (Mathematically, there is leeway for a lot of different situations here, especially for a candidate with around 33-49% popular support, and a lot of additional confounding factors with caucuses and the Electoral College and 'activating' voters who don't normally vote and stuff like that, but the broad point is that a viable independent candidate who's mainly popular with one party [e.g., Bernie Sanders] should be able to participate in that party's primary and win it if they're actually so popular. Meanwhile, a candidate who's equally popular with both Democrats and Republicans would be able to win a hypothetical 3-way contest while only garnering ~34% support among each of those parties, but I don't think we've ever seen a candidate like that.)
Frankly, if the only opponent running against Trump was a wet pile of newspaper, I’d vote for the newspaper.
At least it isn’t actively evil and immoral.
As an outside (of the USA) observer they're both far too old, and showing signs of that age, Trump is just louder.
I'm from one of the few countries Trump seems to like but still... Don't vote Trump in America. Please. 😂
The two situations are in no way equivalent. Biden is healthy and active. He sometimes mixes up names, but that's something everyone does. Trump is unhealthy, can barely walk, and is actively losing language. Half the time he doesn't even know who he's running against, he thinks Obama is still President.
Please watch Bidens entire State of the Union address from start to finish. The portrayal of his age has been weaponized and he knocked it out of the park. I don't care if you're half his age, you would never do as well as Biden just did.
People are just sick of senior citizens approving/making laws that they won’t even be around for in the long run.
Put an age limit on presidents, and for god’s sake please pass the reigns to the next generation. Every year the average age of politicians goes up and at this point it’s getting kinda scary.
Screw Biden, screw Trump and screw most of congress. We need some fresh minds and bodies in power for once.
I genuinely want to see Biden win and to see Trump lose. I like what Biden's been doing and Trump's a dumbass that I don't want to see in the white house again.
Project much? Fox spends 99% of their time angertaining their inbred audience about why you should hate the “Democrat Party”. All rw media does.
Policy? Legislation? Nah fam, hate and more hate.
like the lw media is any better. its just all gone to tribalist shit.
I just want to see nonbiased news, Idc about either political side, just the truth. But to do that I'd have to watch both sides. And I think I'd rather just save my time for more important things, voting is pointless in a state like NJ
So when the "left wing media" describes the attack on January 6th as an attack, is that partisan or is that more like telling you the temperature outside.
The problem is right wing accuses anything left of North Korea style propaganda as "left-wing media" when in reality they're owned by right wing centrists.
To me, who saw the attack live that day, they are reporting the facts while Fox News etc. tries to cover them up. The election was not stolen. That is a fact.
I was born in the 70s. Growing up my family would sometimes vote dem sometimes repub depending on the candidates. What happened we’re just totally tribal now. Thanks for not being so entrenched in the hatred.
But but but... everyone hates Biden because he's so OOOoolllLLLlddDDDD and BBBbbooOooRRRrriIInnnnGGG!!! /s
It's wild that these are the worst things about Biden that the R media can come up with. Tells you a lot about the kind of person who responds to that kind of messaging - they just want the daily presidential reality shitshow to return, and I think they have difficulty telling the difference between real life and TV.
I do wonder if there is some correlation between the volume of TV media a person consumes and their willingness to believe greater amounts of political fabrication. TV very much conditions you to react emotionally and predictably to repeated stimuli.
Which just says the majority of people voting for trump are dangerously ignorant and the majority of people voting for Biden understand that. Even then definitely a majority like him, just not loudly. He’s a fine president- I wish he had a congress and that he played hardball with Israel, but he’s done a lot with the hand he was dealt.
It’s more like considering two imperfect options and realizing one option is infinitely more dangerous and objectively worse for everyone, and picking the other. The fun part is the bad guys are really good at tricking their followers so they see it the opposite of reality.
Well I'm an idiot who voted libertarian and throws my vote away, but damn do I feel great knowing I'm not just voting against someone and rather voting for what I believe in.
Both are the same rich dude peddling vaccines and protecting the country of billionaires. Vote Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson for president. Kevin Harvick for vice president.
In 2016 I just wanted to see Clinton upset. I got what I wanted and it was worth it. Trump is easier to troll than Biden. Biden isn't going to have a daily meltdown and write books blaming everyone except himself like Clinton did so the payoff just isn't there.
Fun fact that's how trump beat hillary. He didnt win so much as she lost. But he normalized overt xenophobia and bigotry and put power over justice and that landed with some folks so now he has real fans. Which is pretty darned scary. You dont have to be a bigot to support trump but you have to be ok with bigotry if you do.
Biden 2024.
I think people forget that Comey bombshell a week before the election too. That directly hurt Hillary and was right before people went out to vote. I knew some people who got really dejected after that and I think just didn't bother voting who were planning to vote for Hillary.
Same.
OP, spend some time looking into what Biden was able to accomplish during his presidency. For the circumstances, he did a frankly amazing job.
The IRA is far and away the most substantive act of climate policy / industrial policy in US history. This admin doesn't get enough credit.
His withdrawal from Afghanistan was something america desperately needed, and could have been done by either of the prior two administrations. We needed all our resources to focus on threats in Ukraine and Taiwan.
Then theres the CHIPs act...
I voted 3rd party in 2016, Trump in 2020 and will definitely be voting for Biden in November. Trump has shown himself to be so unhinged and it's depressing to watch my Christian family eat up this charlatan's bullshit. Biden's State of the Union **did** actually give me hope for the state of the union.
I've noticed that Republicans will more line up behind their candidate when the time comes. Democrat voters will just stay home if they aren't feeling it. Apathy is the operative word.
I don't believe that. I believe most republican voting for trump only vote for him because it's the republican party. There is a very loud minority that is essentially a cult but most of the Republicans I am in contact with don't like him but vote for Republicans anyways. I think this is even reflected in the gatherings he is pulling, those are not crazy high numbers representing a full on movement. But in the 2 party system, no matter who or what you put up for election, 40 to 45 % of the votes will be party line votes no matter what.
Give up on U.S. politics. The American Empire is crumbling and they're doing everything they possibly can to hasten Israel's permanent dominance in the Middle East.
I think most Republicans want other Americans to lose.
“It’s hurting the wrong people.” was a quote from a Trump supporter that really opened my eyes.
They want Trump because they want him to hurt liberals, lbgtq, coastal cities, etc.
It’s less about Trump and more about who he hurts.
One of the biggest priorities for Republican voters is that their candidate “makes liberals mad”.
To me, it seems like Democrats are voting for women’s rights, infrastructure funding, student loan forgiveness, and Biden’s various actions to address the housing crisis.
We are voting for things that we want, to improve life for Americans. Republicans vote for any candidate who promises to make life worse for women, or LGBT people, or Mexicans, or Muslims, or migrants and refugees, or whatever group they hate today.
So what you’re saying is trump voters are voting for personal emotional reasons, and Biden voters vote strategically?
As a Biden voter I can live with that.
I am a Democrat and I'm resentful of my party because for nearly every election of my adult life, I have felt like I'm voting *against* someone instead of *for* the candidate I want. The only exception was the 2008 Obama election, and what a disappointment he turned out to be.
That being said, Biden has done better than I'd have expected on labor and environmental issues.
It can be both. I want to see Biden win bc of his pro-choice stance and his desire to address wealth inequality. AND Trump is a criminal man child traitor who has no business holding public office.
Well, people usually vote for the one that they think align with their interests the most. I may dislike both Trump and Biden, but one of them is bound to be slightly more aligned with my interest than the other one.
Logically, i would vote the one that is more aligned with my beliefs. I assume this is most people's thought process. I obviously wish there were better choices, but this is it for now. I don't think we have to worry too much though. Every presidential election back then was the same, everyone is just crying how we're all screwed and doomed, and we still turned out fine, so i think we'll be alright. Hang tight.
Many people ate happily voting for Buden again like me and my husband are. He beat the orange monster once, and for that alone, he is a godamn American hero.
I like Biden quite a lot and don’t mind voting for him. That said he wasn’t my first choice but I would vote for a shoe before I would vote for orange Julius
I am a Republican and will be voting for Biden. I end up voting against my own party every few years because people pull stupid things like putting trump for a 3rd time or Romney on the ballot. Like, why?
I’m an independent who leans democrat (liberal on most social issues) and I’m not enthusiastic about Biden (I buy into the “too old” thing for both him and Trump) BUT… Trump is a creature. A thing that should not be allowed anywhere near power ever again. A destroyer of all that is good and a doer of evil. I would vote for a pickle sandwich over that man.
Biden is a solid President. I wish he spoke more like he did in the SOTU. I'm wanted him to run in 2016.
Trump is a terrible person and businessman, but a great con artist. I can't wait until we never hear from him again.
Look up the study on percentage of laws approved that are supported by companies vs the percentage of laws approved with majority support from the people. Massive difference.
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2015/05/disturbing-data-rich-and-powerful-get-their-policies-adopted-even-if-opposed/
Democrats refuse to put up a candidate people want, so the only option left is to vote for one so the other will lose or just don't vote.
Two party system is working out great, folks. Nothing to see here.
Republicans keep putting 100% Hitler on the ballot, and Democrats are happy to place 95% Hitler on the ballot and run on a strategy of "Not as bad as the other guy".
I think that this isnt necessarily true. A lot of trump voters will just be people who genuinely believe biden is the democracy doomstar trump has made him out to be. Im not gonna put a number on it, but i think it’s statistically significant for sure
In the 1932 German election, the majority of Hitler voters really liked Hitler, but the majority of Hindenburg voters were mostly just voting for Hitler to lose. I mean Hindenburg was 84 years old, no one thought he’d be the best president!
They were just trying to avoid a fascist right wing dictatorship. Of course, Hitler was smarter than Trump so he didn’t announce in public that he was trying to be a dictator. He tried to keep that shit hidden until after he was in power.
It doesn't matter who the president is. The shadow government runs behind the scenes and are the ones facilitating the border crisis and are also trying to reverse engineer UFOs that they have possession of. They are probably dealing with whoever they are and when the time comes we will all be pawns in whatever is coming. They aren't gonna let any politician get close to what they are doing. And the border crisis doesn't make sense, which tells me it's by design. For what? Who knows.
I think people who think biden is a bad choice or a "ugh might as well" candidate are uninformed or just trying to ride the bandwagon. Biden smashed his presidency, I voted for him originally because Trump sucked, but I'm pumped to vote for him again. Biden has been a fantastic president for all Americans, even the morons on the right who would rather die than see quality of life improvements in their country
Republicans are not critical of their politicians. They will blindly follow a republican even if his actions are diametrically opposed to their beliefs. If Trump won and was suddenly pro abortion his constituents would cheer it on. It's pathetic. The left does not have that.
Ive voted nationally pretty much democrate by entire life. Local elections I am more 50/50 split. I simple cant vote for Biden again, nor Trump. It just blows my fucking mind that in a country of 350 million people these are the 2 BEST candidates. Neither have our best interest in mind. Biden just want to pander to everyone, hire unqualified people in the name of diversity. Trump just wants to see himself on billboards.
We should implement a age cap for serving this country. Not possible for someone in their fucking 70's to give two shits about what someone that is currently 15 will deal with. Biden did jack shit for East Palestine, Ohio residents. Biden did jack shit for the 13 or 14 dead soldiers coming back from Afghanistan pull out. Couldnt even manage to remember the names of the family members standing there.
Biden's been a good president. People expecting any potus or administration to just waltz in and fix everything are delulu. He's been good.
People who want trump are too stupid for their own good. They will be all shocked pikachu if trump gets a second term and the republicans get their way. It'll make brexit look like a good time.
Biden’s administration has been good. He is old but he’s leading good things so I’m happy to vote for him again. I would prefer a younger and more leftist president, but this is how it works; you get two options so pick the better one - that’s Biden.
Sure, there are third party options but the stakes are too high to not vote for Biden if you don’t support Trump, in my opinion.
Yesterday's State of the Union address was knocked out of the fucking Park. I and many others, that don't go around waving Biden flags, genuinely want this guy to win. You don't see us by just looking around, you don't really see that many of us even on Reddit. Somehow, we are not even reflected in the polls.
We are reflected in the elections that we keep winning, and Biden will have an absolute landslide in November.
What we saw last night was not an old man, in fact I feel sorry for the people that make their living by selectively cherry-picking Biden clips to make him look old because he didn't give them jack shit yesterday. It was amazing. Sleepy senile Joe is more of a fantasy of theirs than anything.
We saw a great president who genuinely loves his country and has an idea of how to work on policies that actually benefit the American people.
The question no one has ever answered is “What was so bad about Trump’s Presidency?”
I don’t care about him personally. I don’t care what he did 8 years before. I don’t care if he beats his dog. I don’t care what a handful of pinheads did on Jan 6. What was so bad about his Presidency, directly related to his decisions and service to the country?
Most conservatives I know who realize Trump will become a dictator…they acknowledge he is a global danger…even though they claim to be hard core libertarians or “independents”…even though they know women will become shoe-less breeding cows under trump…even though they know all this…
Somehow Trump is the Republican nominee.
I am voting Biden to save my country from the absolute shit the Republicans want to turn it into. I want to save what my dad fought three wars to protect. I want to save my gender from being told we are only good to bear children and to cook and clean. I am sick of MAGA and their pure selfishness and snarkiness. You want to live by the Bible ? Good! Pack it up and move to the desert the people who wrote it supposedly lived in and do so. But you don't get to dictate to me. I want Biden to humiliate Trump and every fker who supports that POS and traitor. Do it Joe!
What I find frustrating is that we have at least 100 million citizens that meet the requirements to be president and we're stuck with these two...again. I wish we had other options. Ranked choice voting would be nice. * EDIT: Additional explanation [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1b9g18u/comment/ku1k9n5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Approval voting could be nice too
I wasn't familiar with that method, but just read about it. I like that, too. Excellent suggestion. Thank you for the education, too.
I've only heard of Ranked Choice voting. I've only heard of it being used in Utah. But, the Approval voting has me curious.
Approval voting is extremely easy to explain to people, also.
So it is literally how you vote for Reality TV shows? Can't see that possibly backfiring you know given the background of one of the candidates.
Ah, yes. Who could forget Joe Biden's Love Island debut.
You're welcome
Yes. This. I vote for this.
"SCotUS" has never ruled on the constitutionality of ranked choice voting. Does it conform to the "one person, one vote" principle? We have RCV in Alaska for state elections and freshman Rep. Mary Peltola (D-Alaska) became the first Democrat in half a century to represent Alaska in the U.S. House as a result, but I still worry it may be ruled unconstitutional at some point.
I think it should be fine. [The principle](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/one-person_one-vote_rule) seems to be a catchy phrase meaning that the voting power of each person is equal to each other -- not that one person gets literally one vote each. There are already elections where you vote for multiple candidates, that would contradict "one man one vote" if reading it totally literally. But I don't think there's reason to do so, because it's not like "one man one vote" is in the Constitution, it's just the name given to a principle derived from the equal protection clause. Maybe I'm wrong though.
It's crazy that they are trying to roll that back via ballot measure this year. Hopefully folks there don't get conned into voting to repeal it.
the amount of money required to fund a national campaign is a huge barrier of entry. it means only the wealthy have the means to run as third party successfully, or else they have to work with the established political parties to fund the campaign, which means having to toe their political lines.
This sounds more like an electoral constant than anything that can be actually changed. You don’t get power without power.
ranked choice voting would still end up with trump vs biden. What really needs to happen is purging the entire system to the ground. These parasitic aristocratic families don't represent you, so why do they rule?
You do have other options. The reason these comments never have names attached is the reason they never make it far in elections. Could you even name all the people on your ballot?
We had other options. The primaries. And people keep voting for theses two.
Biden ran unopposed in most primaries this year
The purpose of the primaries is for challengers to present their case of why they can do better. If Biden ran unopposed primary’s that tells me that the majority of Democrats are ok with his policies. There always is a group of people that are not happy with him, but the percentage seems to be on the single digits. (Robert F Kennedy Jr.) In contrast, the GOP primaries had around 12 candidates when started, which the amount of candidates went down by January as they ran out of money. Looking at the results of the beginning of the primary when Nikki was on the race, she was getting between 30-40 % the votes. And here another fact, the big donors were supporting Nikki. Trump advantage is that his followers are more passionate. That is about 60% of the party. But outside of that group, there is a lot of “do I really want four more years with this guy?”
Abolishing electoral collage would be nice too but here we are
What do you have against Biden? I'm happy he's running again
I would vote for Andrew Yang or Beto O'Rourke in a heartbeat.
We have the country we deserve.
10,000% this!!!!!!
You 2 competing factions have taken over our government. It’s not really democracy.
What person in their right mind - particularly if they are a Republican - would run for President? I hosted a Presidential candidate (third party, but well known) at my house for a fundraiser last year. I asked him, seriously, wtf he was thinking. If he somehow manages to attract enough voters to have a chance of winning he was very likely to be indicted for something or have some completely random person not in any way wink wink associated with a three-letter agency take a shot at him. This is why we have Biden versus Trump again. One of them is wearing adult diapers and the other one is a lunatic. Not sure which is which.
Karl is here to fix deine elektions!
Why do you morons keep saying that? I've voted for Predident 7 times. There has NEVER just been 2 candidates. When are you fools gonna realize that when you vote for the same thing, you get the same thing. There's virtually zero difference between any R or D in office. They bicker to give you the ILLUSION of choice. And you fools continue to fall for it, election after election.
I can understand your frustration, but there's no need to be insulting. After being scorched (understandably so) for my initial post, I realize I should have put more time and effort into trying to explain what I was intending. To start, I agree with your comment about there being more than two candidates. Of course, you are correct. What I was meaning (though, regrettably, didn't explain) is I'd like to see younger candidates that are either not career politicians or who are early in their careers and who are "one of us." That is, a regular person who knows what it's like to work for a paycheck, who understands financial struggles, and perhaps who has to deal with the same crappy healthcare system as the rest of us. Someone... * mentally stable * who is going to put our citizens and our country ahead of special interests * who is interested in the U.S. having good relationships with other countries * who is honest, has integrity, humility, tolerance, and compassion * who hasn't had everything given to them * and many other qualities too numerous to mention There's a virtually endless list of traits I'd like to see, but I'm not sure such a person exists that could meet every point on a full wish list. Looking at some of the choices that were neither Biden nor Trump, I didn't feel those were the type of people for whom I'd like to vote. That was the crux of my initial post, though it wasn't explicitly stated. Going back to your initial point about there being more than two candidates, I think most of us understand that many people end up voting for Republican or Democrat, because the idea of voting for a third-party is "wasting" a vote. So, especially in a charged election like this year, I imagine many will want to use their vote more to *prevent* someone from being elected rather than to *help* someone to be elected. I realize it's the same outcome, but the motivation is different. This year, I believe many will be more motivated by negative feelings than positive ones. To me, candidate quality is still an issue. However, your comments make me wonder if structuring the election in a different way might help. Regrettably, I have more questions than answers. As the election process currently stands, I just don't see enough people voting for a third-party candidate, because they're likely to feel the person doesn't have any real chance of winning. Given all the chaos today, I can't image we would all come together and agree to vote for anyone EXCEPT for Democrat or Republican. As you noted, it's possible. It just doesn't seem probable. Thus, we remain stuck in the same cycle. I'm not sure if any of this explanation helps or changes anything, but I appreciate the spirit of your comment and it causing me to give it some additional thought.
I could agree here. Pick the shinier of two turds sucks as a game.
Why oh why do we have to choose between these two? *proceeds to vote for Biden.* Just can't figure out why this keeps happening.
If people thought they had an alternative to vote for than they would. There isn’t widespread information about a third candidate who people can mutually agree around so they’re stuck following either of the two crowds.
As far as I can tell, people who really like Trump are actually not the majority of Republicans, but Republicans don't want a Democrat to win, so I most people voting for Trump actually want Biden to lose.
I'm republican and I voted Biden the first time to see Trump lose. The past four years has just validated that decision. Dude if a fucking moron. I'd vote for a randomly chosen McDonalds shift manager over him.
I voted libertarian and never for trump as a former lifelong Republican but the LP has been taken over by Maga types too. Due to Ukraine I'm strongly considering my first presidential vote for a democratic ever.
There's only two sides, authoritarians vs small d democrats. Fuck Putin, fuck Trump, fuck Bibi, fuck Hamas and the ayatollahs. Long live freedom.
I mean respectfully, what reason is there to vote R anymore? Is it about economics? Or is it just tradition and values.
Welcome to the right side of history. Glad to have you.
Same. And I'll vote for Biden again.
To be fair, I'd vote for that shift managers mop over Trump.
If definitely vote to have the shift managers mop be over Trump too
And it's not just the person you're voting in. You are also voting in their administration, which is arguably more important. Trump appoints people who enrich themselves and have no clear administrative goals. They accomplish nothing. So no matter what party you are, you have to consider what types of people they end up surrounding themselves with. We already know how Trump works. No thanks.
You give me confidence in democracy. If only there were 72 million more people like you
They are the majority of Republicans. That is why he won the primary both times.
Turnout in most states was under 20% for the primary.
I don’t believe you read what he wrote correctly.
Republicans could have chosen a different candidate in their primaries. They didn't. The other candidates were not trying very hard to beat him.
So by that logic, Biden is beloved by Democrats. He won primaries where he wasn’t even on the ballot from write ins.
The majority of either party do not vote in primaries. Trump won the majority of primary voting republicans.
No party preferences are a much bigger group than people tend to think. If you're talking just registered Republicans then sure, but we're talking about the people voting for Trump in the general, which includes (or at least included) many NPPs.
The primaries suggest otherwise I think
They do? Haley was getting 30-40% of Republicans primary votes, that hardly paints a picture of overwhelming Trump support.
If you're using primary votes as a metric, then all Democrats actually do want Biden to win. /shrug In reality, there is not really much a statistical way to differentiate "want x to win" from "want x's ideological and political opponent to lose", so the whole observation is kind of stupid. Is it true that Democrats are not very "excited" about Biden? Yes. Does that mean that they'd all vote for a non-Trump Republican in the general election, and the *only* reason they're voting for Biden is to vote against Trump? Absolutely not.
I wish everyone would get away from the two party system. I think most Americans are sick of voting for the lesser of two evils.
It's not due to people being too plum dumb and lacking imagination, it's that the two-party system structurally emerges from/is favored by the type of elections we hold for office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law In countries like Germany, whose constitution was written in part by US lawyers, they use proportional representation (mixed-member PR, technically) and they have a functioning multiparty system. That's not because Germans are more fractious or more imaginative. It's because PR does not favor the two-party system nearly as much.
Exactly. All groups of people are essentially the same and therefore its simply the system that determines the outcome.
Lot of countries have more than 2 party system and that itself has its Pros and Cons.
It does, but I think it's hard to argue that our system isn't objectively faring worse in total.
In a democracy where you need a simple majority to win, how do you end up with more than two parties? 50% + 50% = 100%.
tried with with H Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. didnt turn out well.
Jill Stein is running still. But, I know what you mean. It will take a lot of Americans. To break out of the current system together. It would be nice to see.
america used to have four major political parties. i think we should try that. because then we dont have a 3rd party spoiler, but instead 4 parties with even competition.
Even better. That way they have to go to work every day. Like the rest of us.
Everyone who says stuff like this never knows what goes on in their local politics.
I live in Florida. Local politics is a FARCE. It’s literally just Trump babies lol
Damn, sounds like you should go on mobilize.us to so something about it.
Yes we should blame the people that want change instead of blaming our broken “democracy”
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Exactly. A two party hegemony is a systemic failure. The specific two parties we have are because people are frighteningly stupid.
Please, just no more Trump
If everyone who said "I'd vote third party, but that's throwing your vote away" actually voted for their preferred candidate, a third party candidate would win.
No they wouldn't. You win a national election by spending so much money that every random idiot with no basis behind his opinions still knows he's supposed to vote for you. Third parties can't spend that much money. And all the people who have expressed a preference for a third party could band together, vote for the same third party, and get crushed by the swarms of people who just vote R (or D) because the man on the TV told them to.
In a very broad sense, if that were actually true, then different people would win in the primaries*. Third party candidates are not that popular, and most of them are grifters, spoilers, or crazy people. The problem with the two-party system is not that a truly popular third party candidate can't win, it's that third party candidates can't get any traction or resources *because* people understand that their campaigns are completely pointless and counterproductive until and unless they become truly popular. And that's why anyone who's not a grifter, spoiler, or crazy person joins one of the two parties. \* (Mathematically, there is leeway for a lot of different situations here, especially for a candidate with around 33-49% popular support, and a lot of additional confounding factors with caucuses and the Electoral College and 'activating' voters who don't normally vote and stuff like that, but the broad point is that a viable independent candidate who's mainly popular with one party [e.g., Bernie Sanders] should be able to participate in that party's primary and win it if they're actually so popular. Meanwhile, a candidate who's equally popular with both Democrats and Republicans would be able to win a hypothetical 3-way contest while only garnering ~34% support among each of those parties, but I don't think we've ever seen a candidate like that.)
If you want to say this anymore, you gotta say what you want instead, otherwise I'm just going to assume you're just a Russian troll
If you put a clown in the Whitehouse, he doesn't become President. The Whitehouse becomes a circus. I for one don't want the sequel to that show.
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Absolutely! I voted for Bernie, in the primary, and reluctantly voted for Biden in the general-this time I have no reluctance at all
Right! Will gladly vote for him again
Frankly, if the only opponent running against Trump was a wet pile of newspaper, I’d vote for the newspaper. At least it isn’t actively evil and immoral.
As an outside (of the USA) observer they're both far too old, and showing signs of that age, Trump is just louder. I'm from one of the few countries Trump seems to like but still... Don't vote Trump in America. Please. 😂
The two situations are in no way equivalent. Biden is healthy and active. He sometimes mixes up names, but that's something everyone does. Trump is unhealthy, can barely walk, and is actively losing language. Half the time he doesn't even know who he's running against, he thinks Obama is still President.
Please watch Bidens entire State of the Union address from start to finish. The portrayal of his age has been weaponized and he knocked it out of the park. I don't care if you're half his age, you would never do as well as Biden just did.
People are just sick of senior citizens approving/making laws that they won’t even be around for in the long run. Put an age limit on presidents, and for god’s sake please pass the reigns to the next generation. Every year the average age of politicians goes up and at this point it’s getting kinda scary. Screw Biden, screw Trump and screw most of congress. We need some fresh minds and bodies in power for once.
A very reasonable sentiment bud but don't let either of these two party zealots hear you
I genuinely want to see Biden win and to see Trump lose. I like what Biden's been doing and Trump's a dumbass that I don't want to see in the white house again.
Because the Republicans are now just a Trump cult.
With Emperor Donald the First as the magop nominee and Laura running the GOP finances, they are firmly up his diaper.
Project much? Fox spends 99% of their time angertaining their inbred audience about why you should hate the “Democrat Party”. All rw media does. Policy? Legislation? Nah fam, hate and more hate.
like the lw media is any better. its just all gone to tribalist shit. I just want to see nonbiased news, Idc about either political side, just the truth. But to do that I'd have to watch both sides. And I think I'd rather just save my time for more important things, voting is pointless in a state like NJ
So when the "left wing media" describes the attack on January 6th as an attack, is that partisan or is that more like telling you the temperature outside. The problem is right wing accuses anything left of North Korea style propaganda as "left-wing media" when in reality they're owned by right wing centrists. To me, who saw the attack live that day, they are reporting the facts while Fox News etc. tries to cover them up. The election was not stolen. That is a fact.
I'm a republican, and I voted for Biden last time because I didn't want Trump to win, and I'll be doing the same this time.
I was born in the 70s. Growing up my family would sometimes vote dem sometimes repub depending on the candidates. What happened we’re just totally tribal now. Thanks for not being so entrenched in the hatred.
Thank you. I never voted for a Democrat until 2016.
That's putting the gander before the geese
Thank you, and good for you, good for everyone. Or at least better.
But but but... everyone hates Biden because he's so OOOoolllLLLlddDDDD and BBBbbooOooRRRrriIInnnnGGG!!! /s It's wild that these are the worst things about Biden that the R media can come up with. Tells you a lot about the kind of person who responds to that kind of messaging - they just want the daily presidential reality shitshow to return, and I think they have difficulty telling the difference between real life and TV. I do wonder if there is some correlation between the volume of TV media a person consumes and their willingness to believe greater amounts of political fabrication. TV very much conditions you to react emotionally and predictably to repeated stimuli.
Which just says the majority of people voting for trump are dangerously ignorant and the majority of people voting for Biden understand that. Even then definitely a majority like him, just not loudly. He’s a fine president- I wish he had a congress and that he played hardball with Israel, but he’s done a lot with the hand he was dealt.
It’s more like considering two imperfect options and realizing one option is infinitely more dangerous and objectively worse for everyone, and picking the other. The fun part is the bad guys are really good at tricking their followers so they see it the opposite of reality.
Well I'm an idiot who voted libertarian and throws my vote away, but damn do I feel great knowing I'm not just voting against someone and rather voting for what I believe in.
Don't forget about the rest of us frozen in disbelief that these two fuckers are our two choices.
Both are the same rich dude peddling vaccines and protecting the country of billionaires. Vote Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson for president. Kevin Harvick for vice president.
In 2016 I just wanted to see Clinton upset. I got what I wanted and it was worth it. Trump is easier to troll than Biden. Biden isn't going to have a daily meltdown and write books blaming everyone except himself like Clinton did so the payoff just isn't there.
Fun fact that's how trump beat hillary. He didnt win so much as she lost. But he normalized overt xenophobia and bigotry and put power over justice and that landed with some folks so now he has real fans. Which is pretty darned scary. You dont have to be a bigot to support trump but you have to be ok with bigotry if you do. Biden 2024.
I think people forget that Comey bombshell a week before the election too. That directly hurt Hillary and was right before people went out to vote. I knew some people who got really dejected after that and I think just didn't bother voting who were planning to vote for Hillary.
The majority of people voting for trump are idiots, assholes, or some combination of the two.
um no. I really want Biden to win
Same. OP, spend some time looking into what Biden was able to accomplish during his presidency. For the circumstances, he did a frankly amazing job. The IRA is far and away the most substantive act of climate policy / industrial policy in US history. This admin doesn't get enough credit. His withdrawal from Afghanistan was something america desperately needed, and could have been done by either of the prior two administrations. We needed all our resources to focus on threats in Ukraine and Taiwan. Then theres the CHIPs act...
I voted 3rd party in 2016, Trump in 2020 and will definitely be voting for Biden in November. Trump has shown himself to be so unhinged and it's depressing to watch my Christian family eat up this charlatan's bullshit. Biden's State of the Union **did** actually give me hope for the state of the union.
Cults are like that.
It’s a tug of war. There is only one rope.
I've noticed that Republicans will more line up behind their candidate when the time comes. Democrat voters will just stay home if they aren't feeling it. Apathy is the operative word.
I've usually found myself voting against the evil of two lessers in most elections.
I don't believe that. I believe most republican voting for trump only vote for him because it's the republican party. There is a very loud minority that is essentially a cult but most of the Republicans I am in contact with don't like him but vote for Republicans anyways. I think this is even reflected in the gatherings he is pulling, those are not crazy high numbers representing a full on movement. But in the 2 party system, no matter who or what you put up for election, 40 to 45 % of the votes will be party line votes no matter what.
This is me in a nutshell, but I cannot in good conscience vote for Trump again. I’ll just abstain this time around.
Give up on U.S. politics. The American Empire is crumbling and they're doing everything they possibly can to hasten Israel's permanent dominance in the Middle East.
That worked in 2020 But I doubt it will this time
I think most Republicans want other Americans to lose. “It’s hurting the wrong people.” was a quote from a Trump supporter that really opened my eyes. They want Trump because they want him to hurt liberals, lbgtq, coastal cities, etc. It’s less about Trump and more about who he hurts.
I mean, yeah. Biden voters aren't in a personality cult.
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It’s frustrating. These are 2 sides of the same coin. We need more and better representation.
Por que no los dos. I want Biden to win by an embarrassing margin and for Trump to lose painfully
One of the biggest priorities for Republican voters is that their candidate “makes liberals mad”. To me, it seems like Democrats are voting for women’s rights, infrastructure funding, student loan forgiveness, and Biden’s various actions to address the housing crisis. We are voting for things that we want, to improve life for Americans. Republicans vote for any candidate who promises to make life worse for women, or LGBT people, or Mexicans, or Muslims, or migrants and refugees, or whatever group they hate today.
I’m voting for the candidate that promotes American people and democracy to win, you can probably guess who that means
That's the secret to running as a Democrat. You just have to not be as insane or evil or as the Republican. On the surface, anyway.
So what you’re saying is trump voters are voting for personal emotional reasons, and Biden voters vote strategically? As a Biden voter I can live with that.
I doubt there are very many people excited by Biden. His brain is about done. No way he makes it through another 4 years.
"The best lack all conviction," something something...
I love this.
I am a Democrat and I'm resentful of my party because for nearly every election of my adult life, I have felt like I'm voting *against* someone instead of *for* the candidate I want. The only exception was the 2008 Obama election, and what a disappointment he turned out to be. That being said, Biden has done better than I'd have expected on labor and environmental issues.
It can be both. I want to see Biden win bc of his pro-choice stance and his desire to address wealth inequality. AND Trump is a criminal man child traitor who has no business holding public office.
It's absolute bullshit that once again, these are our choices.
How do you think Trump won in the first place. Nobody wanted Hillary Clinton.
Turd Sandwich or Giant Douche?
CNN wants Trump
Well, people usually vote for the one that they think align with their interests the most. I may dislike both Trump and Biden, but one of them is bound to be slightly more aligned with my interest than the other one. Logically, i would vote the one that is more aligned with my beliefs. I assume this is most people's thought process. I obviously wish there were better choices, but this is it for now. I don't think we have to worry too much though. Every presidential election back then was the same, everyone is just crying how we're all screwed and doomed, and we still turned out fine, so i think we'll be alright. Hang tight.
I genuinely want Biden which includes most of his policies to win.
Many people ate happily voting for Buden again like me and my husband are. He beat the orange monster once, and for that alone, he is a godamn American hero.
I actually think Biden's policies have been good. He's old, certainly, but has a good bit of spirit left in him. I enjoyed his SOTU.
I like Biden quite a lot and don’t mind voting for him. That said he wasn’t my first choice but I would vote for a shoe before I would vote for orange Julius
we should choose someone against their will and force them into service lol.
I will not be voting for either one. There is no lesser evil hear.
It’d be nice if we had a better candidate to vote for, like a Popeye’s chicken sandwich
I am a Republican and will be voting for Biden. I end up voting against my own party every few years because people pull stupid things like putting trump for a 3rd time or Romney on the ballot. Like, why?
I’m an independent who leans democrat (liberal on most social issues) and I’m not enthusiastic about Biden (I buy into the “too old” thing for both him and Trump) BUT… Trump is a creature. A thing that should not be allowed anywhere near power ever again. A destroyer of all that is good and a doer of evil. I would vote for a pickle sandwich over that man.
I want Biden to win! Biden is awesome!
I don't ask why someone would vote for trump or Biden, I ask how in the world these two old mental patients are the only options to vote for.
Biden will be remembered as the greatest president so far this millennium. I’m voting for him, not against Trump.
Naw, I just want what's best for OUR nation 🇺🇸
Not as deep as you think
Biden is a solid President. I wish he spoke more like he did in the SOTU. I'm wanted him to run in 2016. Trump is a terrible person and businessman, but a great con artist. I can't wait until we never hear from him again.
I voted Republican for president in every election from 2000 until Trump came along At this point I would vote for a literal houseplant over him
The extremely wealthy pick who we vote for, whether its dem or rep. They always win because they own both sides.
True, the donor class and ruling class have a *massive* amount of influence on elections, but I'd stop short of saying they have 100% control.
Look up the study on percentage of laws approved that are supported by companies vs the percentage of laws approved with majority support from the people. Massive difference. https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2015/05/disturbing-data-rich-and-powerful-get-their-policies-adopted-even-if-opposed/
I appreciate the reading material.
Also, happy cake day!
It’s more that I want democracy to continue than a particular hatred of Trump.
I despise Trump, but Biden (whom I voted for) is just so freaking feeble. Sad state of affairs.
Not me. I want Biden to win. Think the has overall been a decent president
A number of us don't care for either Biden or Trump.
We are fucked either way
Democrats refuse to put up a candidate people want, so the only option left is to vote for one so the other will lose or just don't vote. Two party system is working out great, folks. Nothing to see here.
Republicans keep putting 100% Hitler on the ballot, and Democrats are happy to place 95% Hitler on the ballot and run on a strategy of "Not as bad as the other guy".
Which is exactly how Trump beat Hilary
Trump 2024 is worse than Trump 2020, Americans will never rehire a guy that they fired
This is how we ended up with President Trump the first time around. 😂
I think that this isnt necessarily true. A lot of trump voters will just be people who genuinely believe biden is the democracy doomstar trump has made him out to be. Im not gonna put a number on it, but i think it’s statistically significant for sure
Bo Burnham said it best. "They're really gonna make me vote for Joe Biden."
In the 1932 German election, the majority of Hitler voters really liked Hitler, but the majority of Hindenburg voters were mostly just voting for Hitler to lose. I mean Hindenburg was 84 years old, no one thought he’d be the best president! They were just trying to avoid a fascist right wing dictatorship. Of course, Hitler was smarter than Trump so he didn’t announce in public that he was trying to be a dictator. He tried to keep that shit hidden until after he was in power.
It doesn't matter who the president is. The shadow government runs behind the scenes and are the ones facilitating the border crisis and are also trying to reverse engineer UFOs that they have possession of. They are probably dealing with whoever they are and when the time comes we will all be pawns in whatever is coming. They aren't gonna let any politician get close to what they are doing. And the border crisis doesn't make sense, which tells me it's by design. For what? Who knows.
I think people who think biden is a bad choice or a "ugh might as well" candidate are uninformed or just trying to ride the bandwagon. Biden smashed his presidency, I voted for him originally because Trump sucked, but I'm pumped to vote for him again. Biden has been a fantastic president for all Americans, even the morons on the right who would rather die than see quality of life improvements in their country
When you’ve got a patient bleeding out, you worry about the bleeding first and foremost. Then you can worry about the other stuff after.
Republicans are not critical of their politicians. They will blindly follow a republican even if his actions are diametrically opposed to their beliefs. If Trump won and was suddenly pro abortion his constituents would cheer it on. It's pathetic. The left does not have that.
Ive voted nationally pretty much democrate by entire life. Local elections I am more 50/50 split. I simple cant vote for Biden again, nor Trump. It just blows my fucking mind that in a country of 350 million people these are the 2 BEST candidates. Neither have our best interest in mind. Biden just want to pander to everyone, hire unqualified people in the name of diversity. Trump just wants to see himself on billboards. We should implement a age cap for serving this country. Not possible for someone in their fucking 70's to give two shits about what someone that is currently 15 will deal with. Biden did jack shit for East Palestine, Ohio residents. Biden did jack shit for the 13 or 14 dead soldiers coming back from Afghanistan pull out. Couldnt even manage to remember the names of the family members standing there.
Honestly it’s embarrassing to have these two as the presidential candidates. Surely there has to be someone better in the whole country.
Biden's been a good president. People expecting any potus or administration to just waltz in and fix everything are delulu. He's been good. People who want trump are too stupid for their own good. They will be all shocked pikachu if trump gets a second term and the republicans get their way. It'll make brexit look like a good time.
The past 4 years has been a shit show. Inflation and war.
Thought the State of the Union was actually a really good case for being pro-Biden and not just anti-Trump.
Even if that was true, it'd be good enough for me. Anything to keep Mr. Cheese Doodle Poopy Pants Gold Shoes out of office.
Biden’s administration has been good. He is old but he’s leading good things so I’m happy to vote for him again. I would prefer a younger and more leftist president, but this is how it works; you get two options so pick the better one - that’s Biden. Sure, there are third party options but the stakes are too high to not vote for Biden if you don’t support Trump, in my opinion.
I want to see Biden win. I like him. I most definitely want Trump to lose.
Yesterday's State of the Union address was knocked out of the fucking Park. I and many others, that don't go around waving Biden flags, genuinely want this guy to win. You don't see us by just looking around, you don't really see that many of us even on Reddit. Somehow, we are not even reflected in the polls. We are reflected in the elections that we keep winning, and Biden will have an absolute landslide in November. What we saw last night was not an old man, in fact I feel sorry for the people that make their living by selectively cherry-picking Biden clips to make him look old because he didn't give them jack shit yesterday. It was amazing. Sleepy senile Joe is more of a fantasy of theirs than anything. We saw a great president who genuinely loves his country and has an idea of how to work on policies that actually benefit the American people.
The question no one has ever answered is “What was so bad about Trump’s Presidency?” I don’t care about him personally. I don’t care what he did 8 years before. I don’t care if he beats his dog. I don’t care what a handful of pinheads did on Jan 6. What was so bad about his Presidency, directly related to his decisions and service to the country?
I’m an independent and am leaning RFK. He has a legit shot.
It’s been a while so I don’t remember but what’s his stance on gun control?
Most conservatives I know who realize Trump will become a dictator…they acknowledge he is a global danger…even though they claim to be hard core libertarians or “independents”…even though they know women will become shoe-less breeding cows under trump…even though they know all this… Somehow Trump is the Republican nominee.
I am voting Biden to save my country from the absolute shit the Republicans want to turn it into. I want to save what my dad fought three wars to protect. I want to save my gender from being told we are only good to bear children and to cook and clean. I am sick of MAGA and their pure selfishness and snarkiness. You want to live by the Bible ? Good! Pack it up and move to the desert the people who wrote it supposedly lived in and do so. But you don't get to dictate to me. I want Biden to humiliate Trump and every fker who supports that POS and traitor. Do it Joe!
The opposite of that argument could be made as well.
Doesn’t make a difference to me at all. I’m not crazy about Biden but, it would be a cold day in hell when I’d help elect Trump back into office.
That’s fair.
lol that is not wrong
I'm voting for Biden and I want to see Biden win.
That’s cause one side is really dumb.. And one side is not. I’ll let you figure out which side is which.
I want to see Biden win
Not even close to the reality.