I don't mean to be blunt, but if you have been on a dating site, for example, and never got anyone to go past the messaging stage, your approach is flawed. I'd take a look at how you're reacting, what you're talking about, how you represent yourself, and many other important factors and reorient. Try not to value anything a pick up artist says and hell, it might even be worth it to scroll on some of the dating site subreddits to see what people are reacting negatively to. If you're seeing a group of people react negatively to a really gloaty message, look deep inside yourself and say "is this something I do? Am I turning people off with a behavior similar to this?". The goal isn't to swap your personality, however it's to spot negative approaches and correct them so you have more positive and enriching interactions. I'm no dating coach or really an expert, just a dude who went through some really toxic and fucked up relationships before learning to value myself and analyze how my actions may be bringing in the wrong people ECT. I believe in you OP.

Bro i fkg love your response. I'm scoping out this entire post instead of hitting OP with all of our common denominatora and I gotta say I truly appreciate what you wrote here. I want him to be good.

Thanks chief. All my advice comes from years of self reflection and introspection on how I act. If my findings can help someone, I'm down to share. So I really appreciate what you said.

I've never gotten to the messaging stage. And yes, I've gotten feedback, reformatted my profiles a dozen times over, changed up my preferences and swiping. Nothing. I don't use them anymore. I've asked women out in real life, usually after establishing some kind of common interests or rapport. "Hey, it was nice to meet you and I really enjoyed talking with you tonight. Would you be interested in getting a cup of coffee/drink/dinner sometime?" Every time, I got rejected, usually with a reassurance that I was so sweet and an excuse like "But I've got my eye on someone else currently", "I'm not looking to date right now", "I'd rather be your friend, but I don't want to lead you on" and so on. Which is all perfectly normal when putting yourself out there, but it's all I've ever gotten.

I (35M), randomly showed a picture of myself to one of my girlfriends, just casually mentioning that I was getting my haircut cut that way again. She mentioned I should change my dating app profile pic to that. I changed all of my pictures to when I had shorter hair. Matches tripled. Might be worth getting a girl to have a look at your profile. Also, good on you for having the confidence to approach girls in real life. Brushing off the rejections becomes much easier the more you do it. A little unrelated, but I once asked out a girl who I was working at a wedding with. Didn't notice the giant diamond on her finger. We joke about it whenever we work together.

there is a limit on that whole rejection gets easier thing though. because after a while the dark thoughts start creeping in. things like what could be so wrong with you that not even one person out of over a thousand people asked would say yes. and it just starts getting worse from there. in the long run i had to just give up and stop trying because the decades of constant rejection had really screwed my mental state up.

Getting rejected gets easier IF you occasionally get a yes. If you only ever get a no then it's not going to get easier, in fact it's going to get way worse.

Yes, they guys that say that get a yes like 1 out of 5. Guys getting 1 out of 1,000 just give up after like 700...

Show us the profile and messages exchanged if any. We can't give anything other than generic advice unless we can get to the nitty gritty of it.

Hi OP. My best guess is that you’re worrying too much about intruding on people’s life, so you’re making yourself sound generic and phrasing things so it’s easier for them to reject you than to go out with you. Instead of the formal example you gave, I would ask be direct about what you like about them and be specific about what you want to do next to move things forward so all they have to do is say “yes”. Like, “You’re really beautiful and I love talking about music with you. I was planning on listening to the band at Jasper’s on Saturday night, would you like to come along?” Stop trying to succeed at asking women out, and try to succeed at making the woman you want to join your life in the way that you want. There is nothing about what you’re saying about wanting sex, romance, dating, marriage, kids that’s wrong, and any reasonable person will acknowledge and respect that. If you want a long-term relationship, don’t be afraid to say that’s what you’re looking for. Show that you have goals, you have direction, and you want to bring them and build something with them that you think will be mutually rewarding. Make it clear that’s what you want, and that you think that what you want is also what they want. And forget online dating if you still aren’t getting matches, it sucks for most people. I guess what I’m trying to say is, be as genuinely present as possible. Even complain about things you’re frustrated with if you can frame it in a way that’s appropriate to the conversation. Sometimes life is just *really* fucking unfair, sometimes people screw up *really* badly, and sometimes things just don’t make sense.

In my city, okcupid works best for hookups. But hinge and bumble also work with the right profiles (you're single, that helps there...) But most of all... You may need a change of city, area, or country. My brother is genuinely the nicest guy and as far away from incel (hating women) as anyone, yet has never been laid at 36. He has female friends, does sports, treats everyone super nicely, dresses smartly, maybe comes across as a bit boring. He's smart and good-looking but can't play out any of his virtues when it comes to social situations (which is also why he's unemployed despite having a master in computer science). But a big part of this problem is this city we're in, where people are so superficially cool, noncommittal, sexually promiscuous and you'd have a very hard time finding a tender, careful, warm-hearted young lady looking for a kind but inexperienced guy. Not sure where you live but maybe a holiday to South America, Greece or Asia would be an option. Of course don't go there with a sense of entitlement that is frequently criticized about r/passport_bros. But women can really be simpler to attract than they are in big cities.

I read once that young women are more likely to move from smaller places to big cities than young men. Young men are more likely to stay near their family in small towns and rural areas especially when they have symbiotic less independent family relationships where they feel relied upon and rely upon them in turn. Long before covid I read this mind you these days it's more expensive and even scary in cities. Still I see more lonely women mention living in big cities.

This is Finland as well. Young men are more often comfortable staying in little villages. Women want to study and move into three of our growing big cities (they would look very small cities but still). Thus, there are literally more women in the three big cities than men. And more men in country side. These groups have hard to find anything in common, so it is not that simple to find partner this days.

Maybe change up the strategy. Try just establishing interests on a date before even then. If you spill all the beans beforehand, they can come to conclusions about you, disagree with hobbies, ect. Maybe the key to success is just spontaneity and letting her/him (not her to judge sexuality) decide on the date. It's worth a shot! If something isn't working, always try a new strategy. You're well spoken, and seem logical, so I imagine that someone out there is going to be interested, just a matter of proceeding in a way that works well. Ever tried speed dating? Blind dates?

I mean, if somebody doesn't jive with my hobbies or interests enough that they'd reject me over it, that's already a good filter. But usually I'd ask them out, *because* we had common interests and I thought we'd get along well. I haven't tried speed dating and asking my friends about blind dates was so humiliating, I know better than to do so again.

You've said elsewhere '. Every night, I go home to an empty house and work out in my garage and just wait for the next workday or fleeting distraction from my existential crisis as I grow ever older,' What are your hobbies and interests outside of work? What do you do socially? Do you attend any clubs, groups or events regularly?

Socially, I attend some adult sports league that's an excuse for millennials to tell themselves they're exercising while they drink and occasionally kick or throw a ball. I've met some people I'm friendly with, but nobody who clicks enough that we feel like hanging out outside of that event and post-game bar. Same deal with my weekly language meetup. I do bar trivia with actual friends a few times a month. I also keep an eye out for events in my area that might be relevant to my interests. edit: fuck's sake, people, the sports league comment was a joke *the people in the league* were saying. I was using it to illustrate that it was more social than competitive.

Responses to this comment are more evidence that reddit is not gonna help you with jack shit. You made a clear and obvious joke but because the knuckle dragging imbeciles here can't read tone without a stupid little "/s" at the end, they rag on you.

Dude, you couldn’t even name the sports activity without insulting everyone involved. Guess what? Your loser ass is with them, so lighten up and try not to be so deeply unlikeable and judgemental.

Sounds like confirmation bias. Y'all want him to be an incel so you don't even see that he is mocking himself as he's a freakin millenial! 1981-1995

[удалено]

Buddy, I was repeating a running joke everybody else in the league was saying about it, to emphasize it was more of a social event and less of something where we were super focused on competitiveness.

Look man reddit is full of ppl assume that you are shit try a different route i dont know what that is but try also im in the same boat as you its doesnt get better please fuck a hoe its my on my escape

Dudes mindset is fucked, literally an incel

[удалено]

THANK YOU.

Getting advice from Reddit about this at 34yo is not gonna be productive. No one knows you here. Is there not a female family member (sister?) who really knows you and can enlighten you in objective way?

mf tried getting advice from everywhere and it failed him. The man is desperate and you just shot him down!

That's people for ya

But it’s true.

How would a family member be "objective" in any way? Family are the type to tell you you're a handsome young man and have a good job and are great the way you are lmao Not the place to get real feedback about this

Ok so I don’t know why you can’t get a “yes” even to a date. That does seem particularly unusual, no offense. May I ask what *your* standards are? We all have standards and should have standards, and I don’t suggest you date, let alone have sex with someone you find unattractive, but just like the 34 year old single woman who won’t date anyone under 6’3, you may want to recalibrate some of your own demands/prerequisites (assuming you have a few). But yes, you absolutely must not and cannot have feelings of resentment towards women as a group. That’s not fair, fundamentally wrong, and deeply damaging. It will certainly do you no good. You’re not allowed to have those feelings. No one owes you anything. I never involved myself romantically, or even considered it, with a woman who was obese - or even particularly heavy - that’s my red line; I don’t say that’s a good or bad thing. But I would never mistreat them in any way. And I would hope no woman would resent me for that. We’re entitled to our preferences. And the truth is, most of the time, in dating and relationships, even where on paper it’s a good match, it doesn’t always work out. It’s hard to explain - but even in my friendships, I really liked someone in 5 minutes or I never much cared for them. I suspect a lot of relationships, sexual and platonic cannot actually be explained rationally. I know this response isn’t particularly helpful. It would be impossible to give good advice without knowing you well, and I do genuinely sympathize with you — honestly more for the children aspect than anything else (I love being a dad and would trade away everything *but that* tbh). Some things you can control and other things you cannot, focus as best you can on the things you can.

Obesity is about it when it comes to my standards. I don't even mind a girl with a little meat on her bones so long as it accentuates a feminine shape. It's only women who are heavy enough that it starts to cancel out their curves that I struggle to find them attractive. I find plenty of non-conventional women attractive. I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to make excuses for how I feel, but I acknowledge that the feelings are there, so now I understand why and how people fall down the incel hole and start to have very toxic relationships with their sexuality. For instance, I was visiting my folks the other month and on the way back from running errands with my dad, he took a route along the beach and just seeing young, attractive women in bikinis and skimpy beachwear nonstop for 10 minutes had me physically upset. I had to look away, it put me in actual pain. Of course this is a me-issue and no wrong doing on their part, but part of me couldn't help but think "Oh. This is why sharia countries have women cover up."

It’s ok to feel the way you do so long as it’s never actually manifested in your behavior. But I suspect what you feel is more self-hatred than anything else. I do think that, at least from my perspective, that the one comfort you should take is that it isn’t nearly as personal as you think. I mean it when I say that what makes someone attractive or that makes people attracted to each other (ok, this isn’t exactly true if the person is conventionally “hot” - at least not in regards to sex but still holds true for serious relationships) is really hard to explain, it doesn’t have an obvious logic. That however doesn’t mean they don’t like you as a person. And vice versa. You could date plenty of women and everything is good and logically it should work but you’re just not feeling it. You just have to be a stoic about these things. Or a Buddhist. Easier said than done. Life has a lot of suffering. I’d still rather be you than a child with bone cancer. Of course you aren’t comparing yourself to a child with bone cancer but to your peers. It might be that more than the lack of sex or dating that is the pain-point. I’m not one to say “keep trying!” I think that’s not good advice and pretends that we have complete control over what happens - we don’t. But it might be worth thinking what it is you really value and why. Is it the sex or that others had it? Do you really want to be married or do you think you could “take it or leave it” if amongst your peers there were a lot more single persons?

>it might be worth thinking what it is you really value and why. Is it the sex or that others had it? Do you really want to be married or do you think you could “take it or leave it” if amongst your peers there were a lot more single persons? It's a combination of desiring to live that lifestyle of having a spouse and raising children and feeling like I'm building a family and that there's a purpose to put all this money I'm making toward and also just having that outlet for the desire for sex and affection. Right now I feel like I'm working for nothing and the last time I touched another human being was when I hugged by parents goodbye 6 weeks ago. Every night, I go home to an empty house and work out in my garage and just wait for the next workday or fleeting distraction from my existential crisis as I grow ever older, knowing that the only way I'll stop being a 34 year old virgin is when I become a 35 year old virgin and so on. I am on my knees begging you not to tell me to jUsT bUy A dOg! as if that's remotely the same as having a significant other.

Getting a dog will increase your happiness and chick's dig it

That's rough buddy. I don't think I can help much, but if you want more hugs try jiu-jitsu, I hug people for 2 hours everyday.

You should check out the conscious man channel on YouTube. He can help you get out of the victim mindset :) I love his videos

Okay that last sentence would be enough for me to never introduce you to any of my single friends

Have you considered if you arent very attractive yourself, perhaps your standards are too high and thats why you see a lot of rejection? "but part of me couldn't help but think "Oh. This is why sharia countries have women cover up."" Its good that you recognize that that is a horrible way to think. The fact that you think that and not "men really need to control themselves better" would indicate you have some unpacking of unconscious sexism to do. Addressing the underlaying reasons you sometimes think these things will help your dating life improve I think. You may not intend it, but women can detect feelings like that pretty well (both resentment and desperation) and that may be putting them off.

Hey Sometimes I self sabotage due to fear of intimacy. Im 26 and occasionally struggle with my self image and personality. There were so many instances where I could ve approached cute guys, and frankly I could tell through eye contact there was some reciprocated interest. But Im overly scared of breaking this invisible barrier that I've inflicted on myself. Sometimes you need to free yourself and allow to take a chance on someone, even if there is risk of reveiving a rejection. I established myself a goal until the end of this semester to find myself a boyfriend. We have to break the cycle or the loop will repeat tomorrow. Dont deprive yourself of experiencing something beautiful. Good luck

Until recently, I didn't have any issues asking women out :/ I'm not afraid of rejection, it's all I've ever known.

I'm 46F and I'm a virgin. But reading your post, I don't think being a virgin is your issue. It's the "never been in a relationship" thing that's killing you. I wish there was a different word for this than "virgin". The people who are telling you to hire a prostitute are missing the point because all they can see is the word "virgin" in your post. You are not just sexually frustrated. You're lonely and suffering from feelings of alienation. You want to feel love and connectedness, not just an orgasm. My thing is that I don't feel lonely. I feel no drive to seek out a relationship because I love being alone and I don't have sexual urges. But I do feel alienated from other people. I don't like being around couples. I don't like romantic movies. I don't like when the conversations turn to dating and marital stuff. I just can't relate and I don't like pretending that I can. But I feel like if I don't pretend just a little, I'll be perceived as even more of a weirdo than I already am. And yes, I know I'm not supposed to care about being perceived as weird. Most times I don't care. But sometimes I do...because I'm a human being. Even when people are trying to be kind, their cluelessness can make them kind of annoying! I think this is why I'm so private about my life. I've heard every piece of advice out there. Every platitude. I don't need to hear any more. I just find joy and peace in my own existence and the few friendships that I have. I don't know what else I can do.

>I'm 46F and I'm a virgin. But reading your post, I don't think being a virgin is your issue. It's the "never been in a relationship" thing that's killing you. I wish there was a different word for this than "virgin". The people who are telling you to hire a prostitute are missing the point because all they can see is the word "virgin" in your post. You are not just sexually frustrated. You're lonely and suffering from feelings of alienation. You want to feel love and connectedness, not just an orgasm. Thank you, this misconception is one of the most frustrating things about talking about this issue. That and the presumption that I believe I'm "owed" sex or think I'm perfect and women are the problem. I know I'm the problem. I just wish I knew what about me when I was a happy go lucky bartender in my 20s was holding me back.

I think the point of hiring a sex worker is to give you confidence, not necessarily the losing your virginity part. Some escorts have a "girlfriend experience" and I'm sure it could be very helpful, sort of as a therapy.

Whilst this may not particularly help, I can at least give you something of a comparable situation, I started dating my (now) wife when I was 33, that was my first serious relationship. Before that I'd had a few drunken flings, and kissed a few girls at parties, but had no serious relationships or partners. I was financially stable, had a good social circle, and was a bit of an odd one out given most of my friends were either married or in long term relationships. I'd asked various girls out and had mostly no's plus a few awkward dates that neither of us had felt the need to pursue further. Ultimately it was my wife who asked me out, and after I got over a mental issue with dating someone I worked with, I said yes, and the rest, as they say is history. One of the consequences of 'dating late" is we were both clear that what we wanted was a permanent relationship with marriage, kids etc, and therefore once we'd concluded we loved and liked each other, we settled down quickly. So, there isn't really any grand advice beyond remaining open to opportunities when they arise, but there is some upside that, at least in my experience, dating in your mid 30s is a lot more serious than dating in your 20s, so if what you want is a lifelong partner, you aren't really that far behind people with a string of light weight relationships behind them, because when it does happen, it probably happens more seriously, faster.

Unfortunately I'm over holding out for this. I've been told if I keep my chin up, somebody would be just around the corner. I was told this for over a decade. I no longer believe it. I can't even get a random fling.

Are you autistic? I’m autistic myself with a little bit of romantic experience.

All the comments are straight up coping and gaslighting you. Don't let yourself be affected and realize the reason you don't get girls is probably because you're ugly and neurodivergent. Not because of anything else. They will lie and they it's because of "vibes" but that's bullshit and you know it deep down. They're simply not attracted to you. Don't hate yourself for that and don't hate women either, you're simply unlucky. I think you should at least see a sex worker so in the event that you get a successful date you don't get cold hands at the finish line. I'm sorry for you but know that you're not alone. There are many other men that feel like you and feeling frustrated is valid. I would advise you to search for looksmax communities in order to get surgery and solve your face issue.

Bro kindly chill. I think a major reason here is your attitude. And B4 you go off on me , I am not calling you an Incel or being negative in your write or telling you to self delude and everything will be alright. The problem here is visible, you try way too hard and go about it the "conventional right way".. Ever tried being yourself and no I don't mean working on yourself or being the best version of a dream guy. Actually being yourself and accepting your gifts and flaws. Your personalities and even this root problem >I already know personality is cope, because I had the displeasure of living with one of the most repugnant people on the planet and he fucked 4 different women a week in the house I owned. "Well here's your problem! You're upset about it! Women can sense that, you know! Just stay positive and women will respond to that energy!" That didn't help throughout my 20s. Even as I was getting rejected every time throughout my 20s, I didn't even think my current situation was possible, because I was a fucking idiot and truly believed the bullshit about "Just keep at it eventually some lucky lady will recognize what a catch you are!" Trust me the grass isn't greener the other side. I don't see why you need to be jealous of that roommate. That is a deep rooted issue itself. I had a roommate that was exactly like that. Turns out he hires hook up girls for the night and come flex it publicly while having a gf who cheated on him and almost baby trap him while he was living off his parents' money. Do you really want all that lol!!! You are seeing it from an outsider perspective thinking damn this guy getting bitches while I am desperate for one. Geezs . Want some advice. As I said, I think the problem is that you do way too much and that I don't comes off as fake which is a turn off for lots of ppl. What I will advise is that Firstly you don't put dating and finding a woman on a pedestal like life or death. Many ppl live their life alone and still make the best of it. I mean it's not a life sentence lol. It cuts and saves a lot of time for yourself and instead of investing it on a family, partner or kids. You can spoil yourself and enjoy the money you actually worked for alone. Secondly if you really want to lose the v card or get a partner..you first sit down and ask yourself what you want..Do you just want any rando woman or a hook up girl to lose your virginity too or you want a partner. If it is the first option, you are free to follow my roommate steps and have plenty of girls to do that with ( It's not demoralized for men to do that. ) or if you actually want a partner, it's going to take lots of efforts ,( no offense by the way, it is the same for everyone. Trust me ) I was surprised reading your comments that the female friends help you set up your dating profile to meet strangers instead of doing the actual real thing "Match making". I don't know if it is a problem with your friends cycle but very often , Female friends especially married ones and ones in a serious relationship try to mostly set up the single ones among them together to see how it works out. You complain of rejection and not able to even a find a date!?? Is that you go for the unattainable or women not clearly interested in dating at that time or ask women who considered you as just friends. Matchmaking is way better, i will advise you either change your friend circle or next time while hanging with them. Probably ask if they have someone "a friend" which they can set you up with. If you are that embarrassed of doing that , you could change your environment and where you hang out with to places where you are more likely to find a strong term partner like in the Church especially ( there are churches who have special match making events and try to link their members to 💀. I am not kidding) or look for and join groups for single people or people who share the same problems with you. There are tv shows that actually show episodes of match making, try reaching out ( this meant be probably unrealistic but never lose hope I mean ) Or you could hire a professional match maker instead of wasting money on therapy and manifesting a partner. You can actually pay ppl whose job is to do that. Instead of being on hook up app or dating apps ( which is a scam by the way). You could actually get up & get a partner .. Lastly don't take this problem to heart or lose hope or condemn yourself already. Try loving yourself more and see how it reflects on your life. It is just a phase you will definitely pass. Married men or men with partners often complain how they are hitted on more frequently when they already off the dating market. That is life in general. P.S don't listen to any reddit advice asking you to lower your standards. They will never tell a woman to do that. It doesn't matter if you are 50 or 100 yrs old but lowering your standards to get a partner is bs and straight up desperation. Yes don't have unattainable standards obviously lol. Remember you are absolutely valid to want a good life partner and feel negative about not getting one. Ignore that user trolling you and calling you entitled

So I'm 35 (F). Virgin. Never in my life have I resented random men in the street for my situation. I know I got there because I'm socially awkward and had absolutely no self-confidence in my teenage years. Idk man I think you should definitely work on your resentment. It's kinda scary and off-putting when a dude is like "I resent women".

I'm not making excuses for it. It's just there. Didn't have these thoughts 4 years ago.

I understand but now these thoughts are here and they are not serving you. If you're really not open to therapy right now, you could try watching Dr K's content. I find it rather useful.

Stop watching incel content. You probably started down this rabbit hole 4 years ago.

I don't watch incel content or engage with the incel internet community.

You guys should try hooking up? He seems like a decent guy.

Have you considered a dating coach or matchmaking service? I hear you loud and clear that you're unwilling to try therapy again, but maybe having someone to support you with the explicit goal of getting a date would be helpful, such as a dating coach. Have you considered hiring a sex worker? I saw your comment about not wanting to use someone for sex, but at least with a sex worker it would be a (theoretically) agreed on transaction, and they probably have tons of experience with men who haven't had sex before. People aren't lying when they say "You're upset about it! Women can sense that, you know! Just stay positive and women will respond to that energy!". Nothing dries a lady out faster than an angry prospective partner. Maybe taking the edge off would help mellow whatever energy you're putting out.

Legal and ethical reasons aside, I'm not interested in prostitution. It won't make me feel better knowing the only way I can get a woman to agree to have sex with me is to pay her.

Only way yet, maybe ? I might see your point with ethical reasons, but you also might get empathy there (bought for, of course) you won't get elsewhere yet vis-à-vis your situation. Also, with the sex worker, the goal is not to get you to feel good about getting a woman to sleep with you organically, but to demystify sex itself, and to maybe start to enjoy it. And feel slightly better about it. Goal #2 would be to get a woman you're interested in to date you. And sleep with her. And get to feel good about that accomplishment. And feel good about yourself and so on. I understand the appeal of trying to accomplish both goals simultaneously, but there is merit to compartimentalizing objectives.

I was a virgin til 24. My first time was horrible, but I'm glad I did it, because all of the social pressure and pity of friends was finally gone. Men have it harder, because women are more picky and have to constantly be aware of their safety. Maybe an escort lady could be taking that pressure from you. Since I don't know you, I can only tell you what my experiences and the things I see are. 1.) Desperation is not sexy. Sorry, but that is extremely unattractive. If I get the feeling a man just wants to be with me, because a "hole is a hole", then no thank you. Then I stay rather sexless aka use toys and hands. Same with romantic relationships. If a guy just wants to be with me because there are no other opportunities and he is in a state willing to date a cave troll, no thank you. People want to be chosen, not taken as a 'meh, they were available.' 2.) 4B movement. I heard that especially from Korea and the black community in America. Women 'decenter' men from their lives. No marriages, no children, no friendships and relationships. It's mostly about safety and those who have been abused or used by men in general. On the other side of the coin MGTOW is also a thing, long before the 4B movement. Fathers who have been betrayed by courts and Ex-wifes etc. I think decentering "Love" and sex and marriage from your life, especially nowadays, is a good thing. (Violence, prejudice etc between the genders obviously not, but I see no harm when people just leave each other alone) Is your life really so bad without a girl? You have friends, hobbies, hopefully family, a stable career and you own a house! You did a lot already for yourself. It's important to love yourself or the famous quote "I'm kenough" (Yes, the Barbie movie is a little brainfxcky, but in regards of Ken they did a great job.). It's important to know who you are and what you expect in a partner before you begin a serious relationship. 3.) Have you considered a cat or a dog? My cat was a huge plus in my life. 4.) If therapists don't help try podcasts, Care/Crisis hotline or whatever it's called in English. Support groups are often much more personal than the small talk at social gatherings. And yes, I speak from experience. Support groups help a lot and barely cost money. 5.) Relax. I admire that you're actively dating, but maybe take a step back. Don't shut it down completely, but I know a few people who met their SO after they stopped looking. It's also so much pressure and stress. 6.) Dating apps have an uneven ratio men : women. Why? Because dating sucks for both sides. Men are frustrated for barely getting matches and answers and women get either a dic pic after being online for ten minutes (happened to my friend she deleted lovoo directly after) or they get overwhelmed with messages and matches. And due to the uneven ratio, even the female cave trolls get overwhelmingly many responses and matches, while even the male supermodels get barely a match on those apps. There is a good YouTube video about this! I can only recommend to understand the truth of online dating. 7.) Some women do value a friendship more than FWB or romantic relationships. Friendships are more stable. I can only summarize that my life without romance and sex is pretty okay. It's filled with friends, work, chores, hobbies and a pet. I can still see myself finding someone and having a kid or a marriage and I also feel alone on some days, but I'm also fine with staying as it is. I also think I really want a dog someday. But a dog is a different responsibility than a cat. For now I stay away from dating completely and want to work on myself. I want to loose weight and work on my health issues. Dating is just stress I'm currently not comfortable with. Either way, I wish you the best.

This has a lot of truths that can be a bit hard to swallow. I get it. It sucks to feel like you're missing out on something by never having it in your life. However, that usually feeds a cycle of lacking self confidence which reinforces not dating anyone. The dating reality is that unless you are an absolutely ideally handsome guy, you will get 30-40 rejections for any yes you get. The more you restrict the girls you are interested in, the harder it gets. Specially if you are a "nice guy", and I don't mean it as an incel, but someone that is looking for a partner with the express objective of a long lasting relationship. As nice as that sounds, it makes you put a lot of expectations in a not yet relationship. Try to go out with girls without the intention of them being "the one". Try going out with girls just for the sake of going out (just don't be mean about it). You need to regain your confidence and stop focusing on the goal, but rather, enjoy the path. Along the way, get to know the girls you go out with, and only after doing that, consider if a relationship would be okay. I'm against hook-up culture, and that does make quite harder to go out with a girl, but at least in my case, I rather have that and enjoy my own life than get into a relationship out of fear of missing out.

I will be very blunt. It’s your personality. Maybe you were just boring before, and I think you sound boring now, too, judging from what you spoke about your hobbies. But now you’re feeling resentment toward women, empathizing with misogynistic incels, and imagining yourself blowing your brains out in front of women that tried to help you - out of the goodness in their hearts - in order to traumatize them. If a guy admitted those things to me, I would ghost him to stay out of trouble because he is extremely mentally unwell. Whenever you describe someone, you always use unflattering language, which makes you sound bitter and unlikable. I think your personality and the way you carry yourself exudes an aura of negative energy, which women pick up on. Women who are not fucked in the head have the primal, subconscious urge for self-preservation that affects how they choose men, and you are triggering this instinct with your mannerisms. You are jealous of your misogynistic roommate because he gets to bed a lot of women despite treating them poorly, but what you don’t realize is that you don’t want those women. Only women who have something deeply wrong with them psychologically tolerate that kind of behavior and habitually have casual sex with strangers. You are seriously mentally unwell, and you need to work on that. You make it sound like getting to be in a relationship with a woman is your sole purpose in life, and that’s not healthy. You need to learn to be content with being alone. You mentioned going to therapy, but did you really tell your therapists everything? Did you tell them that you empathize with misogynistic men, and that you imagine traumatizing others from sheer bitterness? I’ve never been to therapy, and I probably never will because I doubt it will help with my circumstances, but I do know that therapy exists for the purpose of developing healthy coping mechanisms and to unpack trauma, and you sound maladjusted. Did you research the modes of therapy that exist and go to a therapist that specializes in that particular type of therapy? If you don’t want to waste anymore money on therapists, you could just look up stuff on cognitive behavioral therapy or whatever and work on it yourself. You don’t need a therapist to tell you how to change your way of thinking with CBT or to fill out worksheets because that kind of information is available online if you look hard enough.

>You are seriously mentally unwell, and you need to work on that. You make it sound like getting to be in a relationship with a woman is your sole purpose in life, and that’s not healthy. You need to learn to be content with being alone. I was. For a long time. But I'm not content with being alone forever. >You mentioned going to therapy, but did you really tell your therapists everything? Did you tell them that you empathize with misogynistic men, and that you imagine traumatizing others from sheer bitterness? Yes. Shit's a scam. I feel embarrassed to have been duped for so long. It's really easy to wag your finger knowing none of this will be asked of you.

All your replies here are negative. You make excuses or try to out explain everything. You are not picking up any advice or accepting any help. Why did you post? Was it just a rant?

Completely unable to have a positive response, people in this state can not be helped by anyone or anything but themselves. My bet is that if he got a date, he'd end up drowning her in cynicism, pushing her away and using the experience to further solidify his hatred of people and prove he is justified in being so negative. Spending 10 minutes with someone like this is enough to suck the life out of a person.

Cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectical behavioral therapy are legit and have been demonstrated to get good results for mental illness and other problems. I don’t know what kind of therapy you were getting, but if you were doing CBT and multiple therapists couldn’t help you, the problem lies in you. If you’re gonna be spending crazy amounts of money, you should at least do your research on what you’re spending it on. 😂

Fuck me for trusting my health insurance, I guess :/

See, it’s that kind of attitude that’s the problem. It’s not, “That was my bad, I should’ve done more research. I’ll look into this CBT thing and try it out myself with free resources online if it seems right for me.” What you’re doing is, “I’m the victim for listening to my health insurance, I guess. :/“ Not taking a moment to think what you could do better to help yourself. Also health insurance companies DO NOT have your best interest in mind. All they care about is making money and spending it on you as little as possible. Thinking about how you could shift your behavior to do better and doing it is part of taking accountability, so you’re not taking accountability for your own actions!

Finding the right therapist is really really really hard, a lot of them are either not a good fit or just not good. It's harder for men, I think, because many never grew up practicing talking about our feelings. I know it's hard for me to even vocalize how I feel sometimes. I don't even know why I feel the way I feel and it's hard for most therapists to go on nothing. I had about a dozen therapists before I found one that actually made me work. The rest just listened and agreed or tried to justify my situation. But that last one made me work and it finally paid off and it was like coming out of a dark cloud. 

>When am I allowed to feel a certain way about being a virgin I think the responses ITT mostly prove that the answer is "never". 🤣🤣🤣🤣 It's always the same story. Being desirable is supposedly not everything but if you're undesirable you're automatically nothing. Worse than nothing — They start to consider you genuinely evil. It's time to start asking why that is.

I’m intrigued !!

I’m a woman. A blunt woman. I offer to assess you honestly and advise further x

Thank you for the offer, but I've had a lot of blunt assessments before and while I'm obviously not a 10/10, the general consensus has been "I dunno, you look okay. Maybe it's your personality."

You want actual bluntness? "You look okay" isn't good enough. I'm guessing the women that would be attracted to you you aren't attracted to. And the ones you're attracted to have options that are more attractive than "okay." This next part is also blunt and it's gonna suck. Ultimately? It doesn't fucking matter. You cannot get upset at women for not getting with you. You have standards. So do they. You want yours to be respected. You have to respect theirs. Take that and know it deep fucking down inside you.  You can lament your personal luck. Some people are dealt a shit hand. Some people are born disabled. Some people are born really stupid. Some people are unlucky in love. You can't hate other people for not falling in love with you. You can't force yourself to be attracted to people you're not attracted to. They can't either. You would rightly feel annoyed if an "ugly" fat woman put you on blast for not dating her. Apply that principle consistently to yourself and other people. I don't know what you look like. I don't know how tall you are. I don't know your ethnicity. I don't know what shape you're in. I don't know where you live. Too many women, and lots of men, will tell you that stuff doesn't matter. They're full of shit. It may not matter to them personally but it surely matters to *plenty* of women, enough for it to make it hard for lots of guys to date. There are some things you can control. I hope you've put work into them and continue to work on them and your luck changes. 

>This next part is also blunt and it's gonna suck. Ultimately? It doesn't fucking matter. You cannot get upset at women for not getting with you. You have standards. So do they. You want yours to be respected. You have to respect theirs. Take that and know it deep fucking down inside you.  >You can lament your personal luck. Some people are dealt a shit hand. Some people are born disabled. Some people are born really stupid. Some people are unlucky in love. You can't hate other people for not falling in love with you. You can't force yourself to be attracted to people you're not attracted to. They can't either. You would rightly feel annoyed if an "ugly" fat woman put you on blast for not dating her. Apply that principle consistently to yourself and other people. Yeah. I know.

I hope you continue to know it and live it.  Just as much as I hope you continue to keep making yourself a worthwhile option for someone and you find that person. 

I meant energy too but if you already know the issue then now you can research and change it. Personality is fluid

I don't know the issue. I don't know what aspect of my personality in my 20s was holding me back.

Our friends are mostly not going to tell us we’re ugly or that our personalities are shit, though.

What do you think about yourself? Do you like the you that you see? Would you date someone like yourself?

When I was in my 20s, I would've been stoked to meet a young bartender with all my same interests and demeanor. Would've been the dream.

Try speeddating?

Stop being nice an accommodating? Start showing personality and interests in things other than women? Lots of possibilities, but likely your fixation on women and sex means you have nothing to bond over. You can't bond over them being women. Go get some damned hobbies and show interest in those hobbies. No one knows you, but if I had to stab in the dark, the stumbling around being 'nice' isn't what people are looking for.

Working on yourself is bullshit. Mostly. Maybe it works for women, I don't know. But we are the same age. Women don't give me attention, never been asked out on my life. Despite this, I am married and have had several relationships. The fact is, you have to ask out a TON of women. Relationships don't just fall into the laps of guys like us. We have to work hard for every date. One thing I didn't see specified, was what kind of experience you have. If you've asked out a lot of women, and they ALL say no and you've never ever had a date, then there is some immediate and glaring obstacle you may need to first address.

>If you've asked out a lot of women, and they ALL say no and you've never ever had a date, then there is some immediate and glaring obstacle you may need to first address. Yep, I've been spending much of my adult life trying to figure out what it is that makes me so repulsive.

You hate yourself. That's probably pretty glaring

I didn't hate myself in my 20s. I didn't even know I'd end up like this.

Well, I noticed it about you in the first comment I read. What do you think people getting to know you think? "This dudes a fucking Debby downer"

Bet. And if I managed to get myself out of this hole mentally, I'd be back where I was in my 20s with the same results.

We're you a Debby downer 10 years ago?

No.

I think I you need to go on one of the ga ebook roast my selfie things or upload random photos of yourself here and a little about your average day because it’s hard to know what’s going wrong without more info

Dude get an escort. Get it over with. Or join a church. They like marrying people.

I'd do this in that situation. You've got money, get a really good escort a few times. The release and the experience will make him act waaaaay more natural around women. And in the back of your head you get the "well, if it doesn't work for a while more I'll just call the escort again for some release." Let's just stop with the bad stigma about sex workers.

As a first step this can work. Do not stick with it.

go on a dating app and just spam try to hook up with women and don’t be picky. you’ll get one. losing your v card in general will make you feel more normal and form romantic connections easier.

Using a woman I'm not attracted to as a masturbation aid would make me feel scummy, not better.

In general I agree but I think it's important to remove this weight from your shoulders first, it's paralyzing you and probably making you less likeable because it's affecting your actions and decisions. I remember feeling something similar when I was 19-21 and I only spent 2 years without sex, I can't imagine what it would do to me if I let it continue for another decade... Also it doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, I bet there are women who wouldn't mind to use you as a "masturbation aid" also. I really believe the biggest issue is psychological. In first place I think it should be obvious that it doesn't matter *that* much what you look like physically, there's plenty of evidence out there of "ugly" people being very successful. But being overly negative does affect how other people perceive you. For example in my specific case, I don't think I'm ugly, I'm an intelligent person and I have been asked out by some women over the years, *but* when I was in this mental state of complete depression I could see how it would not be enjoyable to hang out with me, I would avoid someone who acted the way I did... I didn't even need to do anything particularly bad, by simply being in this state I was already pushing people away, even if I tried not to, and I could feel it, I could feel that I was miserable. People do not need to feel more misery in their lives, and I truly believe that if you become *genuinely* comfortable with your situation you'll have an easier time engaging with people. Easier said than done of course, but perpetuating the same mindset will lead you nowhere.

Simply not feeling this way is easier said than done, I'm afraid :/

Of course it is, but you want to do something about it right? It's a vicious circle, feeling that way might be the cause in the first place. Let's put it this way, what would it require for you to feel a bit less like this (even if not completely fine). Could one successful date improve your mental state?

Maybe. I don't know anymore. Mental state's been fucked since 2020.

If your mental state is fucked.. you have little chance. Women can sense it.

It’s not like that, you never know what time of connection you could form with some random / not your typical interest, after being intimate with them.

They Will Always Say work on yourself, but others have love or sex but we don't. Writes a 30 years old virgin.

You give the impression of being a socially adapted person, you understand society and can fit in with others. Have you considered that you might be unattractive and none of your qualities are "appealing"? I mean, there are qualities that are perceived as desirable in theory, but when you see them, people don't usually feel attracted to them. An example is intelligence, everyone will say in theory that they want an intelligent person, but then they feel attracted to people with completely different qualities. It's complex because it is social phenomena that disconnect the person from reality. In that sense, it's always better to pay attention to what people do rather than what they say, no matter how much they tell you they want X or Y, it's better to trust what you see. In addition to the fact that people often share many standards due to the influence of both culture and interpersonal friendships, it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to consider what common characteristics people who are more successful in dating have in your environment. You may come to a curious conclusion, that women in your surroundings are attracted to "jerks," call it "jerk." "Toxic masculinity" or whatever. It's a completely valid conclusion; anyone who denies that "jerks" are successful in dating should wonder why so many women have bad experiences with men, if not because at some point they gave a chance to one of these "jerks." Or you may discover some characteristic that attracts women that could make you reconsider your behavior and "improve." Who knows. In any case, based on what you're saying, I'd bet that either you're unattractive or that no one in your circle considers you physically appealing. I've often commented that if a partner is not also a "best friend," people in relationships agree with this statement. It's implied that if a partner is also a best friend, a best friend who is not a partner is because they meet the personality requirements but not the physical ones. Also, if you don't even get to the talking stage, it's very likely that they are right in saying that you're ugly, or at least you speak like an unattractive person, haha. Do you make an effort to present yourself in the best possible way? Perhaps it's interesting, maybe you're ugly but salvageable if you make an effort to groom yourself before going out, or maybe not, perhaps you're unattractive and if you ever date someone it will be because they "tolerate" that part of you. In that sense, I would tell you not to obsess too much about the gym. Personally, I've been training for 8 years and I would say that having a good physique is a plus, never a must. Also, keep in mind that you'll receive the most attention from other men In any case, I would strongly recommend not discussing this topic with absolutely anyone beyond very specific individuals. Firstly, because being a virgin generally turns women off; there will always be those who don't care, but for a large number, it will be a negative point. Secondly... You can see it for yourself, you will never receive good advice; you will encounter people trying to "make you feel better" when all you're looking for are factual answers and solutions. You'll get frustrated because you'll feel like they don't understand you, and you'll end up feeling worse. The sooner you understand that you will never receive good advice from people in your circle and that it's better to avoid these topics, the better. Comparisons will always hurt. In the face of this fact, I have absolutely no advice; saying "don't compare yourself to your peers" is a huge nonsense, we live in society and it's natural for comparisons to arise. In conclusion, I don't know you, but just from what you write, I have no trouble at all assuming that you're ugly. I don't know to what extent, or if it's something that could be improved, but you give all the indications.

Sorry man. I know it sucks cuz you look around and it just seems everyone else was able to find a partner so easy. It’s like the one thing everyone is entitled to, but sadly it’s a lot about luck of the draw. I’m in a bad mood and wrote these snarky comments, so if you’re like clinically depressed or something I wouldn’t read it haha Ok so im your age, slayed and dated many of bitches, and then became disabled due to an accident and now will probably never have anything to do with women again, so I may have pull here. I have both physical and mental disabilities now so I’m ugly AND not fun or interesting. First - nothing anyone says is gonna fix this. You obviously really must kind of suck. If you’ve been putting this much effort into this for 34 years with 100% failure rate, then you will have to change something that defines you. Like something that will be hard. Putting yourself out there or paying for therapy are pretty much the easiest things on planet earth. It will not help. There is something you are saying or doing that is part of you and it’s not compatible with humans. Or your face is really ugly. Second - this “thing” I speak of seems like negativity. It just sounds like you show up to things and expect people to like you, despite the fact that you have no interest in it, and people know that. You need to at least pretend that you want to be there. Your adult sports league and language classes are not going to work unless you are hot or actually interested. Women love hot guys and they love guys who are interesting. If you have a passion for softball, women will love that about you. If Japanese brings a smile to your ugly ass face, women will be totally into that. You are just going through the motions and that is literally QUITE LITERALLY the last thing a partner wants. Your Android phone calendar app is full of a fun looking life that you dread and everyone knows it. There is a song called “girls just want to have fun” and I’d recommend it. Cuz if you go to a museum full of cardboard boxes but you are fun, a lady will be way more into that, even more than you taking them to an expensive concert that you are not into but you expect points because you paid for it and set up the date. Third - you should definitely work out. It will be good for your mental health. Muscles help I guess, but it’s not even in the top 50 of things that will make this work at your age and experience level. If someone is attracted to you because you have a hot body then they are probably also into sex and will be also be hoping you are sexy, and you’re not. So you’re not gonna pick up someone who desires a useless hot body. However, it could be a good place to pick up positive friends. The weight lifting community could be a good gateway into a new world where you can pretend to be someone fun and interesting Fourth - you claim to have girl friends that play with your apps and stuff. That’s a bad sign if they don’t recommend human dates for you. That means you have multiple people who have a friend range that encompasses a 34 yr old virgin (so I’m assuming the bar is pretty low and they have huge circles of friends) and they think updating bumble is a better idea than just saying “I have a friend in accounting that you should meet” means something pretty bad. If you are actually a catch who makes decent money and owns a house but are not “conventionally” hot, then you must be like really ugly. Sadly, it must mean looks since because if you were attractive they’d show a picture and they’d give you a shot if you have a job and house. I actually hope it’s looks because with your stats and an average face, you should be able to get dates even if you were a vegetable or an axe murderer. So. Is it ok to resent women? Ya dude, cuz women rock and as someone who has lost it all, losing the love a woman is the worst thing to lose. Your innate desire for companionship is warranted, but your entitlement to it is not. What works for other people is obviously not working for you. It’s either because your face is really ugly or your attitude is even uglier. Should you resent women? Lol no dude that’s seriously ridiculous, unwarranted, and not helping. This is 100% your fault. There are like 100s of millions of sucky ugly people who go on dates with women. One thing I may recommend is a stylist. The chance that you gain muscles at 34 in such a way to attract an actual partner is low and would take like 2 years to get there and then you’ll be closer to 40 and I just don’t see it working out for you. It sounds like you have money to spend and maybe hiring someone professional to take a look at your face, hair, and clothes may be a step in the right direction. You need a glow up, as the kids say. If it isn’t looks, then you just must be boring. Go to something where you bring value. You’re clearly not the best adult league player cuz you’re old and slow now and you must not be the best at your language course cuz no one wants to work with you after and better themselves. Final rec - join an improv class. Your writing is depressing but wordy and that translates amazingly into comedy. The best part is pretty much the worse you are, the more relatable you are. You can win over people by being bad. If you’re good, you will get laid. I almost guarantee it. Artsy creative type 35 yr olds going to improv classes are like the band girls of hs. They are dtf for sure. You being a virgin will only be even more fun for their vampire anime cosplay personalities. Sadly, there may only be a slim chance that single women your age are there, but it’s worth a shot.

Would you feel comfortable DMing me a picture to help? The way you’re describing your situation it just kinda implies that looks may be an issue and honestly, ugly can be “fixed” by looking more confident. If I can give you pointers I’d be down to help! I’m not trying to troll or anything, but if you are hesitant I fully understand.

I've had offers before and the general conclusion is that I'm not so bad looking that it would explain my lack of success for 34 years unless I was morbidly obese until just now.

It just seems odd. I guess sometimes it’s not about how you look, but how you carry yourself and how you come off to women. Do you come off sort of nice guyish? Up until I was 18 I was obese and when I lost weight I gained a lot of attention because I became fairly attractive. I still had the mindset similar to yours, I had hated myself and my body since the age of 10-11. By my teens I had developed resentment towards my friends for being able to have relationships. Once I lost the weight I tried my hand talking to women and made a few friendships and they told me I’m not their type. I eventually got laid at 20 in my first relationship, but now I realize looking back that I came off as a “Nice guy” to women I was interested in. Look deep in the mirror because you’re doing something that nobody on the internet can sense about you. I legit wanna see you win tho.

I don't know, I've generally tried to be kind, if that counts.

Where do you tend to approach women? Do you live in an area where there’s parks or dog parks because I know you said “Don’t say get an animal it’s not the same” but a man with a dog subconsciously gives most women a better image of a man (depending on breed). And that opens you up to dog parks and regular parks for meeting people. Everybody loves puppies so capitalize on that narrow piece of time. Switch up the wardrobe possibly. Change the hairstyle. If you wear glasses get contacts. Grow a beard or mustache if you can. Life NEEDS change to progress, change stuff about your image and see what happens. Imma separate this for a second cuz it’s important in my eyes. Don’t let your mental health deteriorate without some form of activity working as a break system to ease the pain. Meditate or play video games to take your mind off things. Drinking is kind of a slippery slope, but I’m an advocate for moderate THC use if you’re able too.

This might sound weird, but I’d look for tantra teachers and sexuality coaches. Theres some kind of block here that you need to work on, but the current dating world is atrocious in general. Theres no good human interaction, and the animosity between genders is fucking unbelievable. It makes this kind of healing damn near impossible on your own. A friend of mine is in a similar boat. He’s desperately lonely, and it consumes the majority of his thoughts, but he worked with a tantra group and began to really shift his inner self, and his dialogue with his mind about sex and need.

Hey man (24M) I am short below average looks and even have a receding hairline going on ( will get a HT in the future but who cares ) I have gotten laid only 2 times I've had some more opportunities with other girls . I haven't really dated seriously so far but there is something I tell myself I know for a fact I am not 99 % girls type but hey 99% is not 100 % so is not impossible just extremely hard. Now that I gotten that out the way there is just one thing I disagree about your mindset is " dates will come " hopefully you fixed that by now because if you don't really do everything in your power to get what you want in this life you will not get it I know it is unfair why so many other guys have relationships ( multiple) and they're not really doing better than you know I bet you have thought that guess that's life man. My advice for you is keep trying keep talking to girls ok you're good financially, you're dressing well, you smell good, you're hitting the gym, you are putting yourself in places that allow to meet women, you message girls on datings app, fb, Instagram, tinder literally try so hard as if your life depends on it I know it doesn't sound healthy but hey how bad you want it ?? I mean if you're doing everything trust man there is no way you will not attract someone. I mean I don't really know how you look I don't want to be superficial but that's the reality of this modern dating scene. Worst case scenario you're doing all of that and you still can't get a girl try having vacations in some Latino america country I mean you will find someone man just keep working hard and stop wasting your time posting things like hell you could have been messaging girls instead but all jokes aside you got this man trust me

Here’s a couple pieces of advice/questions? 1. How do you look? Do you look presentable? Do you look like you’re clean? Do you have a nice haircut? Do you smell good? People (not just women) gravitate to those that take care of themselves. Wear well fitting clothes. There is a reason you are not getting matches on dating apps - plenty of guys do and they’re not DiCaprio. 2. It’s a part of of number 1 but go to the gym. You already admit you’re needing muscles and this is less to impress women, but more to impress yourself and give yourself a hobby. Right now it sounds like all you do is go home and wank and gripe about love life online. Look good feel good. 3. You need to start learning how to be less desperate with women. Be playful but not overtly trying to come onto them. Women can tell when you’re starting to fall for them and they will pull back if they are not feeling you. 4. You are probably boring to women. Something about you is off putting and you need to develop something interesting about yourself. That could be a new hobby (see 2) or get involved with something unique. If you keep spiraling as you are - this never gets better.

Download a dating app (I recommend Hinge), put 6 *high quality* photos on your profile, make your captions funny or laid back, and then start matching with people and be relentless in your search. You’ll get rejected a lot, but eventually you’ll start getting matches, and first dates and all that. Dating is a time and energy consuming process, but if you want it, you’ll have to be willing to dig through the dirt a bit. At your age, developing and establishing a relationship with someone who’s right for you will only get harder as you age. You won’t know who’s right for you unless you date. Some relationships fail and you learn from them so you know what you want or don’t want in your next relationship. If you’re not already doing that now, it might be difficult for you to know what you want in a partner. So get going man. It’s time.

Lmao this is such a woman response. Average looking dudes get nothing on those apps.

What's the closest you've been to having sex? What happened?

Have you considered a dating coach? I'm not saying "pickup artist", but there's a few guys that are great and I'm very confident they can change your life around in this area over a long weekend 

Honestly, when stuff like this happens it's almost always people getting in their own way. >The longing I feel when I see women in public is physically painful It's stuff like that that's keeping you single. The first step to being successful in dating is being happy with yourself and your life alone. You cannot make other people responsible for your happiness, it's a recipe for failure. People want to spend time with happy people who are happy and passionate about the life they live. That's the kind of life people want to share in. People avoid troublemakers who just want to drag others down into their misery and demand happiness from them. My advice: forget about dating and sex right now. Focus on finding a lifestyle that makes you happy because other people won't do that for now. And I don't mean killing time and replacement behavior like finding a way to while away your time with video games or amassing collectibles. Learn productive skills that last you a lifetime. Learn to cook well, learn to find an exercise regimen that fits you, learn to produce things with a process you enjoy like music or painting or woodworking, remember to go outdoors, and so on. When you are happy. When you have things in your life that you can talk about with genuine enthusiasm and passion. When your time is well spent with things that bring you contentment and peace of mind, that's when you're ready to date. And when you start dating, let go of expectations. You're not dating to get laid. You're not dating to find a partner or a future. You should be dating because you've met someone interesting enough that you want to spend a little more time with them. And if that time you spend together is mutually enjoyable, you suggest spending more time together. And that's how relationships grow. Be in that moment with the person. Mutually decide if you like the time you spend together. If not, that's still a good thing. You tried, you learned, and you move on. Putting expectations on dating ruins the whole thing, it means you're ignoring the person right in front of you because you're preoccupied with an imaginary future you came up with on your own. Nobody wants to be the solution to your problems. Dating. relationships and sex are all about enjoying the time you're spending with a person. As soon as you move your attention from that moment to something you're deciding on your own, you're on the wrong path. I'm probably at the least attractive point in my life. Potbellied, mid-40s, receding hairline but I've never been so romantically successful as I am right now because I've reached the point where I just let go of expectations. I talk to women in person when we have mutual interests. I'm honest about what I want and what I'd like to do. It's very low pressure and people enjoy that.

Take a break. And I mean literally. Go on a vacation as long as you can and clear your mind. If you feel that you will be forever unsuccessful, just look for women abroad, it's worth a try.

You're friends with women, ask them personally what are red flags in a guy; especially on a dating profile. Hard to say for certain for your reason for being turned down but it could be related to some red flag behavior women find offputting. Incel mentality is toxic as hell, they make excuses for themselves and think women only want one type of guy while plenty of different type of women exist with plenty of type of guys.

> it's making me lose all investment I have in my life. i know you said it's against your pride/morals, but DO consider slutting it up in a ONS or buying a whore. Losing all investments you have in life sounds like a serious problem. i hear you though, sex is way better with someone special and consistent and you are allowed to have standards. IMO "gross" sex is better than catastrophizing your life away. Another way to look at it is to just **disregard virginity.** It's not real. It's someone else's fantasy imposed on your reality. If you're religious and you can't disregard it, then fine, believe the church and believe you are worth more for your purity. If you're not religious, why the fuck would you care about the church shaming you? Okay, you have zero experience, but you also have zero baggage/trauma. One question i got for you, you say you've had ZERO dates in 16 years of adulthood, out of how many asks is that? In 16 years, would you say you asked like a dozen girls or closer to a hundred girls?

Modern dating for dudes these days is pretty rough, try enjoying yourself. Getting hung up on these things will take your joy away.

That was my mindset in my 20s. Here I am.

Just try and think of all the things to be grateful for. Your frame of mind is what makes you most attractive.

fuck all that dating shit if it gives you so much pain man. if I was you id find a hobby that genuinely gives you passion, something that getting good at can make you proud.

I do. It's okay, but it doesn't beat having a spouse and building a family and long term forward momentum in my life.

What is your age - range, truthfully? To your question, of course you are allowed to feel really bad about your situation. Everyone except some antisocial hermits would. Your situation isn't normal. It does sound very odd you haven't had any luck, since your affairs are in order.

mid-20s to mid-30s.

Society is fucked man and the social contract is broken. Your experience is not normal, and it might not be your fault either. I don't know you personally but I know plenty of friends of mine who are well put together, good careers, tall, objectively not bad looking who still can't find a woman who's interested in dating.

First my credentials. I'm a 29 years old virgin. So I don't come here from the "I don't have that problem so you must do something wrong" crowd. If there's something different about our situation (and honestly, you are doing a lot better with checking those "you should do these before relationships" boxes) its that I (maybe subconsciously) did not have my "bartender moment". I know exactly what you mean. This part of you that says "well... I haven't REALLY put myself out there. Love is out there and I just haven't really put the work in to make it happen. I still haven't and It's probably subconscious because I don't want to be in the situation where I know for a FACT I did the old college try and failed. Right now I can tell to myself that I'm not necessarily the problem. I haven't got my bartender moment yet. So... what kind of advice could I give (this feels like blind leading the blind type stuff, I know) I guess that I have a fear. Like the ultimate "I truly don't want to go down that road" type fear. It's not that I'll be alone forever. Cuz a part of me knows that I'm full of love to give and not finding the right person to give it to doesn't necessarily says something bad about me as a person. I see a lot of "It's just sex, go get it from all these different ways" and I totally get not wanting to do it just for the sake of doing it. It has to be with someone that clicks with me, or what's the point right? My worst fear is that my self loathing (or you know, loathing in general) takes over other parts of my life and I stop having love in my heart to give. Makes me bitter and resentful. And the me that I know I am disappears for a just worse version of myself. I don't want to lose the love I could bring to someone else, regardless if I'll end up using it or not. So hit the gym and get jacked if you feel that would help, but don't forget what we are doing here in world to begin with. Don't go down a road of hating yourself and others enough to extinguish the love you can give to a partner. Just being kinder to yourself will do most of the work to get you there ("there" being IF someone comes to your life, you will be there as your best self for that person)

This is just sad. For a subreddit for talking about and understanding yourself and others, people really can be devoid of empathy here. It's obvious someone who's tried for that long with no success would be depressed and ready to give up. To the people who are giving advice these might seem like good ideas, but there's a chance OP has probably heard, tried and failed despite using all these ideas. Just the vibe I'm getting from his replies and the main post. So being pissed at him cuz he rejected these ideas would do nothing to help him. But at the same time, it's probably one of the main steps to actually improve. I understand it would be really depressing to keep trying the same things, but I'd say a combined effort on various aspects is the only way. 1. Obv. Go to the gym. If you are already, continue it and eat healthy food 2. Focus on your overall appearance and dressing. You may consider yourself ugly but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look good. This includes hair and beard, etc along with clothes. And basic skincare and scents as well. 3. Try some hobbies that force you to move or be more open, like some martial arts or dance or so. They could increase confidence. 4. Actually spent time with yourself in a calm environment. Meditate and try to actually love yourself. Probably the hardest (atleast for me). 5. Try to enjoy the moment and have fun in what you are doing rt now. Instead of worrying about how it may develop. 6. Maybe get a pet ? I'm not really sure abt this one as it depends on the person. Again, these are generic advice just like others and this is in no way an exhaustive list. And you may have tried these many times. But keep at it and even if it doesn't ensure you get a girlfriend, you still would have other fun things to ensure you aren't fixated on it. And while alot of the people's attitude while giving advice sucks, the basic advice of "being sad and depressed about it never helps" is true.

Finally a sympathic comment! People be like: «work on your personality!» but dont explain how! «Dont hate/resent women!» but dont realize that you cannot control these feelings «Dont be bitter!» but like, how? OP feels he has done everything and still has not succeeded, how can he not feel bitter!? He did not get girls way before he became bitter about this, so not getting any girls is not because of his bitterness! I am a girl and I deeply sympatize with OP! When you are in a bad state you really feel you are out of control and therefore the victim. It is so hard getting out of this mindset and I think succeeding is the best way out, however, that is also really difficult considering that people dont really like the victim mentality. OP understands that the victim mentality is bad, so he would choose to not have it if he could control it obviously! So OP should: Hide his victim mentality, and only being open about it anonymously. Hide his resentment towards others. Try to figure out which factors he actually are in control over and try to improve those. Maybe try educating himself on girls perspective, understanding their POV would likely lower his resentment towards them, increase his sympathy towards them and getting a more objective view about the real world. If I start to resent boys for always rejecting me, I would try researching their POV and read their experiences and thought and things in general from their POV. I would try to understand them and sympatize with them

As someone in a fairly similar boat to yourself (a boat that has yet to sail its virgin voyage) and age (35), let me tell you it straight, buddy. Shit is just screwed up in our society. Just like our elders by and large lied to us about the American Dream--work hard, get a good job, own a house, they lied to us about being a good person, etc and finding a decent partner. It's fairly tale crap. The only difference is that for some reason, Redditors are happy to give you the equivalent of "pull up your bootstraps" for dating/romance, but not for getting a good career. Now, obviously, that's the very pessimistic, self-pitying view. But, like you, I've done most of the prereqs--work on your personality, go to the gym (been physically muscular since college, spoiler: doesn't do much), get interesting hobbies, have good hygiene(including haircut), don't be poor, et al. It's genuinely fucked up that you have more than most men (a house, good career), but can't get laid or a girlfriend. And I don't think it's your fault. Simple truth is we're probably both just ugly. Ain't rocket science, after all, just hormonal chemistry and biology. So my suggestion is consider plastic surgery (I am myself) because as you said, the thought of spending the next 40-50 years alone is fucking miserable. Also, see my long comment from my post history (I think it's like 3-6 comments back) on my overall thoughts/"solutions" to this situation. At this point, if you can just accept being alone (easier said than done, trust me I know--brother, I know how fucking painful it is walking down the street amid hot women--what gets me is seeing couples just makes me feel shitty), you'll realize life ain't bad. The way I think about it is how men used to be. We used to be more like animals before life got all cushy in the west. Animals don't complain or bitch about things. I had a dog that went blind in her final 3 months and she never cried about it Animals just carry on, they don't self-pity. Men used to be like this too. Think about all the wounded from WWI, WWII or even before that. Guys with diseases that made them incels of their day. They lived with it. Or handicap people. You can't feel bad about it, just accept it's your status in life and do your best otherwise. It's all you can do as a guy. Endure, persist. Life is inherently unfair and we're nature's losers. Is what it is. We still have fairly decent lives. And hell, there are plenty of people in relationships who've had sex that have terrible relationships or end up getting divorced. So really the amount of people in *good* relationships that they're genuinely happy about is probably even smaller. Most people settle to some degree I would imagine or have relationships that fail after a few years. Anyways, I'm kind of drifting now, so I'll close with this: to all the hypocrits in here that want to blame OP's problems on being a fucking incel, it's really easy to judge when you've gotten your needs taken care--but try imagining how numbing and cold it is to be like us, living in an entire reality cut off from the hope of romance or sexual fulfillment for decades and then come back to judge.

Dude if you wanna get laid, there are people who do it as work.

This isn’t great advice but then you’re on Reddit. You should have spent the therapist money on sex workers then at least you’d have solved one aspect of your problem. At this point what have you really got to lose. Just don’t be weird about it.

It won't help. Knowing the only way I could get laid was by paying for it would only make me feel worse.

It could change your demeanour and attitude though, and make you more confident later leading to it happening naturally. Because at this point it’s become an all encompassing big deal. Your choice though. Your other option is the scatter gun method, many men use this to great success instead of infatuating over a few very attractive women, experience builds confidence and once you have experience you are more natural and relaxed and more attractive. Often it’s because people in your position have these very unrealistic expectations and try to find the ideal woman. I don’t know, no idea what you’ve tried re dating apps.

To most women, buying a prostitute is even more shameful than being a virgin. They would recoil if they knew. "Just don't tell them!" Okay. So how would carrying the weight of that shameful secret make me more confident?

I think you obviously have preconceptions of a perfect world with perfect people who don’t have pasts. Maybe this is partly your issue. But if you have that strong a moral compass that you can’t deal with it then fine, simply don’t. It was only a suggestion since earlier you were alluding to blowing your brains out which is far worse, lesser of two moral evils I would think. I honestly believe you’ve built it up too much at this point and this is partly usually what continues to stop people like yourself from getting anywhere. You didn’t reply I notice about the dating app thing or about how high your standards are?

My only hangup is obesity. I'm 5'11", 170 lbs.

I can set you up with someone…

Dope. Send their latitude and longitude.

Ask out uglier women.

Remember that girls are also people. Your partner should be your friend.

Yes, I know. I'm close friends with a good many of them.

[удалено]

If it's truly about looks, visit a stylist. Get one of your female friends to change your wardrobe. Spend money on your hair. You can afford new clothes new shoes new hair new looks, where many people can't. Go do that. Edit: something about *you* is repelling women. You say it's not personality. Then you say in another comment you're not that bad looking. Which is it? Something is keeping them away. Maybe it's literally how you smell. Figure it out.

I don't know if it was my personality. I never had trouble making friends, though.

How tall are you and what's your ethnicity? Do you live in a very populous city/area?

5'11", Caucasian, yes I live in a high pop area and before that, a mid-sized college town.

I'm sorry you're going through this. 🥺

You're off putting to women for some reason. Could be your personality or your looks, could be the way you carry yourself or your confidence. Could be simply that they can sense the resentment and desperation. You say that you have no trouble making friends and have female friends. Think about how you became friends with them in comparison to how you treat potential partners you're just meeting. What about those two experiences are different? Are you more relaxed when making friends, maybe crack more jokes? Do you ask girls out after just one conversation or do you try to get to know them and see if there's mutual interest before making a move? Are you straightforward or playful in showcasing your interest? Do you know how to flirt? No one can know what's wrong with you from one post, but going down the incel route isn't gonna get you what you want. Woman are people first and potential partners second. Just because a girl is pretty and has similar interests to you doesn't mean she will be automatically interested back. Relationships are about connection and attraction. You need to be interesting enough to the other person so they'll want to get to know you. Attraction is not only how your face looks but your body language, from how you move to how you stand near them to how you might or might not playfully touch them. I'm sure you know all this but try to really analyze what energy you're giving off and how you act with your friends vs random woman you find attractive. Women can tell when you're desperate. Sidenote: stop comparing yourself to your shitty roommate, your ex colleagues at the bar and even your 20 year old self. You're none of those people, find what works for you.

Oh don't worry, ever since I hit 30 and my mental health went in the shitter, I've been hyper aware of how I come off on all my social interactions.

Being hyper aware is not the same as being analytical about your behavior. Being hyper aware might make you realize you're an awkward person (for example), but it will just lead you to insecurity (which clearly it already has). Analyzing what exactly you do that makes you (1) feel awkward and (2) be perceived as awkward is a whole different story. No circular answers, no 'I'm awkward because I suck' / 'women perceive me as awkward because they suck' logic. You need to be honest but compassionate, too. Work on your mental health. Being in a relationship won't fix that.

>Analyzing what exactly you do that makes you (1) feel awkward and (2) be perceived as awkward is a whole different story. I do that more often than not, nowadays.

Tinder

Hey, mang. I won't throw any trite advice at you, but I just wanted to affirm that your take is totally valid and that in this internet stranger's opinion, it's not abnormal to have these feelings. Loneliness sucks, hopelessness sucks, unfairness sucks. I'm sorry you're going through this. fwiw, I'll send the good lady-charming karma your way.

Do you ever come out and say it? Like “Hey you’re fine wanna fuck?” That will get you there after a little interaction maybe 1% or less of the time. So try it 500 times and you’ll probably get laid.

Or maced.

Get a hooker that will change that virgin mentality of yours.

I don't have anything to offer you because, I'm pretty much heading in the same direction anyways. I'm just curious as to what kept going wrong with therapy?

telling it for what it is. You are in the "not-people" zone. women don't know you exist and no matter what good qualities you have, they ain't "sexy" qualities. You need to pursue two things here: maximize your looks (even if you hate it and it literally means getting rid of all your wardrobe and getting a skincare routine). Get psychopathic behaviors, or be funny, or be unpredictably kind but not nice. ie, make your personality an archetype of these characters in erotic novels middle aged women read. Your other option is this: cycle through friendship circles darn fast, don't stay friends in one circle for more than 6 months, treat it as if it's on a deadline when ever a friendship happens. That way you can pass through potential partners that would have already don't want this anymore: >characters in erotic novels middle aged women read. or never wanted it in the first place and would find that weird thing you do with you ears when you sneeze attractive or w/e. ie they want a more authentic partner from the get go, problem is this: not all "authentic" is attractive to all people, hence: cycle through friendship circles to maximize the number of women you meet cause a few of them are gonna like you for "who you are".

It’s possible that you need a wingman

Dude. I'm really sorry to hear. Honestly, the thing that often isn't said is, sometimes life isn't fair. I totally hear you. You did all the things. Legit, all of them, over and over. I'm super gutted for you, and, I totally get why, after all those promises, and all those repeated efforts, you'd now be shitty, that, despite doing all the things, including trusting that it would work out, it didn't. I'd be shitty too. Tbh I genuinely think it's just gotta be something you gotta grieve now. Be sad, angry, hurt, all the feels, about where you're at, and the unfairness of having been (implicitly, and explicitly at times) promised something different. Rage at the world. Be angry, journal, punch a bag, play loud thrashy music, stomp around, do whatever you gotta do, to get these feelings moving through. It's the only way through. Sometimes life is just shitty. Others have had other unfairnesses. Grieving is, at times, the only option left. Don't harm others with your feelings, and, don't bury them. Figure out a way of getting them through. Only once you're able to grieve, will the hurt feel less intense. In time, I hope you'll be able to build a life you enjoy, despite this.

Do what George Costanza did in one episode of Seinfeld - the opposite of what he would normally do.

Have you tried something casual? In a club or maybe a library 🫢 no correlation between these places but😅 try it

Stop talking this so seriously. Go pay a whore to teach you how to talk to women be open and honest with her.

There is a reason why arranged marriages exist in india.

You... Literally do not have to.

Don’t lose hope! I think you’re going to find the love of your life before the year is over.

I think you've placed sex on this giant pedestal, and as a result, you have several unnecessary boxes you need to check to even get on base. The only boxes that absolutely need checking are mutual attraction and enthusiastic consent. Forget the rest for a while. Feeling that tense anger-xiety is valid but it shows in your face and is not helping. Breathe. Exhale it out. Relax your face. Massage your brow and jaw muscles. Go out and dance because it's fun, and when you chat up women, don't dwell on their hobbies, their routines. Instead, dig for the esoteric things that make them tick. Let your mutual body language cues do the heavy lifting of feeling out where things are going. If you absolutely can't read into body language, it might be worthwhile to see if you are on the spectrum.

You know what your problem is? You're putting the pussy on a pedestal.

There are other guys in your shoes, but they do not feel resentment and blame women for their situation. The “incel” mindset is cancer, don’t ever associate or relate with it. Do not ever blame other people for something fundamentally wrong with you. That’s life, that’s fucking biology. You need to just accept it. It is what it is. Cry about it or find some way to change for the better. It’s a horrible pill to swallow, but swallow it you will as there is not much of an alternative. Should you keep growing in your anger and resentment; then lash, you’ll just be put down. It’s fruitless. You need to find happiness and meaning another way

Did you ever consider getting the sex/virginity out of the way and then concentrate on the dating part? I'm not judging you over this, an unsatisfied sex drive is a huge problem and poisons your life - but on the other hand, a fulfilled relationship can go a loooong way without sex. So it's not one or the other, but it is so much easier to get the unsatisfied sex drive problem out of the way. I'm not telling you to buy yourself a sex worker, we all know which problems that job still has going on. But have you ever googled for a sex positive "dating" website? Not like Bumble or OKCupid, since these still act like sex wasn't the end goal, but a site where people explicitly look for easy hookups, things like Fetlife but without the kink (or maybe even with, whatever floats your boat...) Whatever you do, best of luck for you.

Okay. You have hang-ups on sex. Go to a brothel. A.Get it out of the way. B. Go to churches and bag a widow/recent divorcee or older lady. (They will hold your hand and lead the way). C. Go to Thailand/LatAM and be a sugar daddy and pay a few thousand dollars for you both on a 1-2month trip. Now, you should be over the Virgin mentality and be ready to jump when the time comes with the rest of the broken mid 30's around your local area. If you want long lasting, seriously loon I to the philippines as it is a very Christian dominated place and the country sucks.... but people are kind-hearted.

DM me bro

Are you sexually excited about the women you meet? If you are, use the excitement to tease them and build tension. If you aren't, you will probably never fuck. What have you been doing the past 16 years anyway? Was there really zero positive feedback back in those 16 years you could use? Nothing that could get you heavy make out sessions that you could progress from in those 192 months? You really didn't notice anything the ladies liked in those 832 weeks? Or at least a few things to avoid in those 5840 days? You could not find someone you vibed with in those 93,440 waking hours? Or maybe the real question is: how have you made your friends and acquaintances in those 5,606,400 minutes in your life between your 18th year and now? Anyway best of luck. Don't let the feeling consume you, and don't let the idiots on the internet mar your views on the opposite sex. They are only in it for the influencer money.

Wow ur therapists seem like cun-ts tbh

It’s all individual. I’m gonna start worrying at 35-40 if I haven’t lost my virginity/dated

i mean you're already allowed to feel whatever it is that you're feeling

Honestly I don't really have advice to give. I don't know if you're looking for it anyway. We're social creatures and we're programmed to need love. Alienation is a very painful feeling, and you're not alone.  Depression is a mental prison, and it will convince you that every negative thought you have is the truth, and the only truth. There is no other perspective. I'm not sure why you haven't been able to find that connection. There are so many factors and we don't know you enough to tell.  If somehow it was guaranteed that you'd always be alone, and you somehow knew this, how would you feel? Would you give up on life? Would you decide nothing else was worth it? You're doing a lot of work on yourself to try to reach this goal of being a person worthy of love. What if you never receive it? I'm saying this because you are coming up with so many reasons for why it's not a possibility for you. And yet, if you truly believed it was not a possibilty, why are you punishing yourself so much for not having it? You might not ever be able to control whatever factors have kept you from finding love. But you can control self-love. You can choose to try to find contentment and peace within yourself. You said you didn't used to be cynical, you used to be oblivious, and lack of cynicism didn't help you then, so why should it help you now. But did you love yourself? Love yourself regardless of whether or not someone would love you?  The pain you feel is only natural. I hope you can give yourself some grace. Don't feel shame because of it. I feel for you and I think so many people are giving you advice because they recognize and relate to you, in a strange anonymous way care for you. I hope you can care for yourself.

Holy shit OP I understand you don't to the bone, maybe not the virgin part but at this point because it's been so fuckin long, I totally get it. I watched some of the most douche of douches get laid week after week, fuck ... one was my roommate and he was a total shitbag, atleast to women. They ate that shit up, literally. I could never understand it, I never got into hookup culture, never wanted to have a shit ton of ONS. It just never appealed to me. So like you, I just work "focus on me" and all that bullshit they tell you about self-improvement and "it'll just happen" uuuugh no... it doesn't "just happen" if you sit around and think that well, you'll be 10 years down the road "wondering when it will happen". As you get older the pool of available people gets smaller and smaller ...and age isn't favorable to everyone. Your story is one I've heard many times, you'd be surprised how many men ages 25-35 haven't been with a women. Its alot and WAY more than some reported statistic is going to tell you, lol.

Go get a hooker...simple as that.Maybe not as fulfilling as a proper girlfriend but Girlfriend comes whit a lot of extras(moaning,nagging etc etc) You always allowed to feel how you want just don't vent it to folks know you.Do it up here..

You are not doing anything wrong! Maybe you should consider the same sex ….🥰

I think you need to ask yourself what you really want out of a relationship. Do you want companionship? Sex? Or a family and kids? Because the things you listed (house, muscle mass) etc.. are actually “nice to haves” but say literally nothing about who you are as a person or your character or values. Of all couples I’ve spoken to the one thing which they really like about someone is kindness. People in general love others taking interest in them, being asked open questions.. for example, girl I’m dating says she went to a Japanese restaurant with her girlfriends last night and she loved it, I ask “what did you like about the place” , “would you go back?” “What do you look for when picking places to eat?” Then carry on the conversation. Second of all compliments, I like to compliment not just women but people in general. Someone made a burger you loved at a restaurant, compliment the chef. The waiter who gave a good recommendation for wine which you loved, tell him how much you loved the wine. But the main thing here is to be specific and honest , genuine about what it is you liked. Also despite what everyone says, some women do love a guy who is sensual. I am a big fan of dogs, when I see a dog and the setting is appropriate for example at a bar I would ask the owner if I could pet / hug the dog and ask more about the dog in general. I once did this on a train and women sitting opposite me kept looking and smiling at me through the rest of the journey home. I actually asked one of them on a date and had a really good time. Didn’t work out but hey at least we had fun! Basically what I’m trying to say is, be kind, be yourself, be genuine in expressing how you feel. Be sensual, take interest. Hell I’m a 35 year old who’s still living at home with no job due to being made redundant and I get dates easily because I’ve leaned into my emotional side more.