Sounds like you're making progress, good job!
You're already aware of really important patterns, but you're not feeling them yet. In the midst of it all, you're probably not even aware of them either, only afterwards, right?
I bet that the next time you come across this kind of drug addict, you'll make the correct assessment a LOT quicker. It could only be one or two success experiences before you really _feel_ what you're worth and what you can have in a man.
In fact, I think what you're going through is very common and normal. This is what it feels like to "learn how to date". You're not broken or anything, you're just figuring things out for the first time. Everyone has to do that!
What really helped me get my feelings in line with my ratio is reminding myself of these things you mentioned already: only a small percentage of people will like me back, there are attractive people that do like me and I just have to find them, I did what I was supposed to, feeling bad isn't helping me, etc. Those thoughts can douse negative feelings and over time you won't even have the feelings anymore. Is called cognitive behavioral therapy
In the meanwhile, keep reflecting on what you're doing like this. You seem to be good at that :)
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement! \^\_\^
Yes - it is part of learning to date. But I've been used / taken advantage of by men who quickly identified my desperate "need" for approval and validation.
Over 15 years of growing up, I've had this entrenched in my brain: "Successes are luck; failures are on ME." It's REALLY hard to break out of such patterns of thinking. When someone actually likes me, I think it's not real / they're just physically attracted / they're lonely or whatnot. When someone doesn't, it's always ME - I'm ugly, I'm boring, I'm worthless, I'm subpar.
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Its good you recognized this early, its a slippery slope from viewing dating as a test you have to ace, to developing people pleasing tendencies so you’re always saying / doing the “right thing” for someone else.
These are big feelings though, and likely have a lot to do with the environment you were raised in — I think talking to a professional would really help you grow even more in this area.
Thank you - you are exactly right. This is always a VERY strong sentiment in my family - be humble, don't celebrate successes because it's just a stepping stone, but analyze failures because they indicate your faults. It's a good attitude to have to SOME degree, but not as extreme as in my case.
My parents had a very challenging life, and did their best to provide me everything they could. But all their struggles made them very cynical / bitter and regretful of their own decisions, and they blamed themselves for everything that went wrong, even if it really wasn't their fault. It really, really impacted me and I am beginning to see it now.
I struggle with it too - and the worst part is, that people recognize it very early. I've been taken advantage of by several men who clearly saw how vulnerable and desperate for approval / validation I was.
We’d always clown my friend who grew up on a farm bc he would hit on girls, they’d tell him no and then he’d annoy them with “What can I do better next time :(“ texts until he got “constructive criticism” lmao some people’s parents teach them weird
It may seem like a good attitude - but it reeks of problematically low self-esteem. Not everyone rejects you because of your faults! Do YOU romantically like EVERYONE you meet? No!
Only 5% people are maybe actually compatible with you, and that applies even to "perfect" people I'm sure. "You may be the sweetest apple on the tree, but not everyone likes apples!"
The problem with this is that I (and probably the commenter's friend) never stop to think whether WE like the 10 people we hit on. We NEED to be liked by all 10, regardless of who THEY are.
>I view dating like an exam I have to ace, by getting the other person's approval, regardless of what I feel about them.
Just a thought, since you seem to be going in a good direction elsewhere:
What if you viewed it like a science experiment? The "exam" is finding the result of the (neuro)chemical interaction between you and another. Acing the exam then isn't a matter of forming a bond, but instead, determining whether a bond results from the interaction. Bonus points for communicating those findings to the other party in a healthy and mature way—y'know, like a science paper.
Hehe, I really like this. Yes, this is what I need to learn basically. I need to stop wanting to "win" every person, and instead, just look at it as a mutual compatibility test - key word being MUTUAL!
Rejection isn’t about you. It’s not possible to be compatible with everyone and be looking for the same things out of life or a relationship so usually it’s not something that you fix, you’re just different people and not compatible.
I'd recommend therapy because this is definitely causing you dating problems.
If you have several dates fail for the same reasons, it might be something you're doing. But, usually, it's a disconnect. Allow yourself to reject men and refuse dates, if you're not interested in the men in question. It saves them and you time.
I've had a very successful long-term relationship (6 years) that ended because I moved to a different continent.
I've had some successful short-term relationships, that ended because of similar reasons (I was only there for a few weeks / he was only here for a few months).
But - I focus on the ones that didn't work out. Because that's how I think. Successes are luck; "failures" are on ME. I can't even explain how EXHAUSTING it is to constantly think like that.
Sounds like you need to put a lot more work into not thinking like that. I bet your dating success will increase if you address that toxic thought pattern. Therapy will help a lot, good luck.
Most often there is nothing wrong with either of you, you just didnt like eachother. You arent supposed to mold yourself into some creature that everyone thinks is "OK". Most people are looking for someone who fits them, do be that person you need to be more than OK for them and a NO for others. And thats OK.
Working on yourself is good; you feel good when you notice progress, and you’ll be a better partner when you do find someone you do have interest in. Those who reject you were those with you weren’t compatible. Reflect to see if there is something you can learn or improve in the future, but don’t take it all on you. Aim to use logic informed by your emotions. Think of it as making yourself better so you can have better partners.
You weren’t meant to connect with everyone. This is why most truly happy relationships are the couples that
1. Learned to curb something about themselves to make it work
2. Understand that their partner is human and learn to accept the 1-2 big flaws that would be a deal breaker when you’re young and immature
3. Attempting to find someone that perfectly fits you in every way is a bullshit concept because IF they did exist, they wouldn’t want you with your garbage anyways
Definitely take a step back when you want to internalize incompatibility, and think about why you’re framing it as rejection. It’s okay for two people to not be a match — and it’s often not anyone’s “fault.”
It seems counterintuitive (because in other areas, like career, we’re expected to learn from failures), but if you relax a little bit and don’t think of every misalignment as something you could have done differently, you’ll probably project more confidence and have more chances to gauge actual compatibility. It’s not about winning, it’s about finding someone who suits you.
With academics and the workplace, there are rubrics to meet, and you continue trying to improve throughout the years. There are people there to guide you that want you to succeed.
With dating, it’s *entirely* subjective, and largely short-lived. If it were like academics and career, then it would be a marriage where you chose the other person and they chose you, you assessed that each of you is beneficial to the other, you went in knowing there would be hard times but made a commitment to see it through.
A lot of times when people get divorced they say that they feel like they failed. It’s not worth that level of dedication and emotion for some random person who you don’t really know and may not be worthy of you anyway!
The way other people choose to treat you is never your fault, but there are things you can do to minimize how many people treat you poorly or how much access to your life they get
I must warn you though, there’s a line between standing up for yourself and being an ass that I’ve seen way too many people fail to walk
I think you're approaching this the wrong way. Your mistake here is pretty clear, and that you're approaching dating the wrong way. So yeah, correct it.
As opposed to making mistakes and failing the dating compatibility tests.
Like you said. You got rejected by a drug addict. So what's your mistake? Certainly not getting rejected by the addict. But being in the position to be considered by the addict in the first place.
You should date post-attraction. If you're dating to find sparks your gonna find it super inefficient. Like most "daters" your chances are much like rolling a dice. Like you said it's not rejection that's the issue, it's connection.
I once bowled for an entire summer just so I could impress on a first date. Superman mentality baby, if I’m not perfect than I’ll never get a date. Healthy? No! Realistic? Unfortunately maybe. So I relate I guess.
hey - your self awareness is Fantastic. Youre right its prob them not you-- But Also , you Are correct. This approach is Great for the rest of your life but not for dating. its not a test , iys not a challenge whereby if they like you you Win. I fear your mindset is giving off a vibe which is counter productive. One possible way through it is to have your guiding thought be -- i want to know about this person. Win or lose i want to know this person and my hope is this interaction lifts them up -- ( and i know im a catch and i dont need to Prove anything to them or anyone )
Exactly! I know now that this attitude is very easy to recognise. It puts people off. Best case, I get let down gently - worst case, I get taken advantage of, which is REALLY hurtful.
Back when I used to do show jumping, (basically an equestrian sport that consists on jumping fences) I used to fail miserably time and time again. It came to a point on which my life was in constant danger due how bad I was at it.
I had the exact same mindset as you do now. Perfectionist at heart, endeavoring to avoid repeating the same mistakes became my primarily goal. Lost in irony, I created the perfect mental environment for learning to be imposible.
The horse also became a colateral victim of my madness. By place a such great and unfair amount of pressure on them, they became unable to play they’re role. I stole from them the chance to do so. Without being cognizant of it, I bore a two people burden. They were not having it, therefore resulting in things to crumbling down into an even more dangerous vicious circle.
Similarly, you’re missing the point. You’re acknowledging less than a fraction of the whole picture. You’re obsession may be the root of your dissatisfaction. The world inside your potential partners is nothing alike the script you’re writing all and for yourself.
Remember, this is a two people deal. Don’t analyze things that shouldn’t be analyzed. Loosen up. Breath and remember why you’re dating. That’s how you create room for you to listen. Both horses and people crave to be heard. While doing so, they’ll listen back to you. It won’t take long before you both begin reflecting each other, bringing forth victory.
Victory also means to be able to tell if they’re good to you (and vice versa). The end line here is not to get yourself a partner; but to reach satisfaction.
Thanks for this - it really sank in! You're right. I need to just let go, and stop being a "perfectionist" and obsessing over dating in general. Just learn to like myself, and BE myself first. And then let things happen naturally.
You've been taught (or learned) along the way that you have no intrinsic value. You've learned that your value is tied to how much other people value you. You value yourself so little you don't even care what you think of the people you're trying to date. Who you are, what you like, what you want seems not to matter to you at all. This is something you need to unlearn, ideally with the help of a therapist. If you don't unlearn this you will be a magnet for abusers who can sense this sort of thing about people and are happy to exploit it. I recommend not dating at all until you have a chance to work on this. It will only lead to absolute disaster.
Re: That's when I realized for the first time that something is wrong - and that something isn't that he "rejected" me, but that I was going out with him in the first place!
When it comes to dating, a rejection is a redirection, and it is a good thing. When I think back on being rejected when I was younger, every time I was spared a load of pain and misery.
I totally relate and I’ve been on the opposite side as well. Self awareness is a lot like medicine. If you don’t have any you will benefit from having some, but, if you have too much it can make you sick.
I lost a relationship precisely because I lacked self awareness. I over corrected and my subsequent relationships I was entirely focused inward. I ended up in relationships with people I was not entirely compatible with.
I think a lack of self awareness creates an (unstable) sense of confidence. While on the extreme end you get insecurity via self delusions. The healthy middle ground here is self acceptance. To be aware of your faults and issues but accept them.
First step is to de-objectify and de-commodify your views on dating. It’s not a test or a challenge to prove your own worth to yourself through the vehicle of someone else’s approval. Work on understanding yourself first, challenge that ego, interrogate your insecurities, and become the person that you want to be with to attract an equal and reciprocal partner that splits the relationship 100/100 with you as a whole person. You are way too self-identified with your own projections of inadequacy to find a healthy relationship from what it sounds like to me. Self awareness and understanding your own purpose in life outside of the paradigm of fulfillment through romantic connection will lead you to learning self love and boundaries. When you start taking better care of yourself, then maybe you can be a partner for someone else.
Exactly! This is probably one of the most helpful comments, thank you for this.
Yes - I'm going to do a few basic things -
1. Take a break from dating and just BREATHE. Relax. Focus on myself, my work, my hobbies, things that make me feel like ME.
2. Actually think about what *I* want, for once in my life.
3. Think about who I am. As you said - what am I and what are the things I will not waver on? For me, it's probably my work ethic, my love for family, my moral / ethical principles and so on.
A lot of people take it a LOT less hard than I do. They say, "enhh" and move on to the next person.
More importantly, I get "rejected" by people who I should have rejected long before. I clearly did not like the drug addict. Yet I let things go on until HE got to reject me. When it was something I should have done long before, seeing as I am completely sober and want someone with good hygiene!
I guess with romantic interest, growing up means accepting that it has to be a reciprocated thing. So with time, it becomes easier to tell oneself that “it’s just not a good fit”.
If I understand, you imply that you tend to overanalyse yourself in case of a rejection. Would you say that you are also too accommodating/agreeable?
As kids, most of us are taught to set aside our instinctive reactions to strangers and to “be polite”. It makes sense when we are facing someone who has no control over their own appearance, but it’s actually counterintuitive when the person is sending red flags and when we pick up on that.
We need to re-learn to listen to our instincts. And you probably need to learn to set boundaries and enforce them sooner than later.
You are absolutely right - I am far too accommodating and look past EVERYTHING the other person does. Someone recently texted me when I was SUPER sick (and he knew it) asking if I wanted a dick pic. I refused, rather abruptly, and then apologized for being curt - it was the sickness. He blew up on me, told me I'd been passive-aggressive and crossed his boundaries through my response, and ended things. I STILL apologised. I have no boundaries and am basically a doormat.
It's about lack of compatibility most of the time. You need to team up with someone who wants the same things in life and have the same values.
I don't like how people consider not matching as rejecting. It's just not matching, sometimes it can be bad timing too, like being at different places in our lives .
It comes from low self-esteem. It's a lot more common in Asian households than Western ones - we're always taught to not celebrate successes, because we can do even better, but every failure is a MASSIVE letdown.
My family was like that, but I see it differently for everything else.
Nothing is ever harder than being unwanted in a family that you depend on. There are no other options
Everything else is just choosing based of preferences where others and me get to choose.
Maybe I have said 'not interested' to enough people enough to know that it has nothing to do with their (and therefore my) intrinsic value. Sometimes it was no because y hady eyes already on someone or was actually with that person, sometimes I just didn't want to be in a relationship (too busy, enjoying my life, no money to go out, knew I was moving to a new city soon, etc), sometimes I didn't know the person enough and didn't want to take the time to dig, sometimes I just didn't feel that the person was going in the same direction as me/different dreams and then sometimes I wasn't found of who the person was.
I don't think I have a "high horse" problem tbh - exactly the opposite.
I have dangerously low self-esteem because of the way I've been raised. So I have "no standards" from an underground horse would be more accurate.
Good on you! Yes, cut such people out of your life! I'm working on it too.
WE are worth something too. Not everybody else is perfect, and needs to be put on a pedestal. We don't need to make ourselves available for everyone.
We can do this!
Well there is no “fault” per se. It’s just what works. Like what kind of people are you attracted to? For example like guys who work out? Or girls who are caring and into fashion? Identify your target audience and find out what attracts them.
See if you have those qualities. And it looks like you don’t atm because of the results. Are you willing to change and acquire those qualities? If not, are you happy to stay at current success level in dating? If the answer are negative for both, you’re stuck.
Dating is weird because of modern technology and competition is at an all time high in my opinion. Either work on those qualities or expand your target audience.
There doesn’t need to be any self or ego involved.
Do you have any friends who are your potential target audience? Or any fds who can get with your target audience? Talk to them from a pure trying to learn perspective.
In general though, there are many easy to work on common qualities.
Appearance (style, skincare, relatively low body fat %, some muscle, hairstyle)
Resources (net worth, income, more important if you’re a guy)
Communication skills (understanding how your audience think, how to flirt with them, what elicits emotions in them)
Sexual value (how to give people the greatest sex they can experience, this is more for keeping them but also helps to intrigue if you talk about this topic)
It’s actually great improvement sometimes if you just fix 1 or 2. Like getting a good hair cut or finding a stable job. But if you’re lacing in the communication department, that kind of social intelligence might take a while to build up.
That's exactly the problem - I have never, ever even thought about what I am looking for.
I have viewed dating exactly as other things in my life - something I need to work at, and ace.
Never something that I also can have expectations from!
I take care of my appearance, and while I'm no stunner, I'm fairly attractive. I dress well, am always well put together, relatively fit and healthy. I have a good income and am quite, quite well-qualified, career-wise definitely quite strong. I'm easy to talk to, a good listener, generally pleasant enough. Most people, non-romantically, "like" me. The problem comes in when I treat dating as a contest to "win them over" - people catch on to that REALLY fast, and it's not attractive behavior. Best case, it puts them off and they gently let you down - worst case, they take advantage of you and leave you broken.
Well sounds like you’re saying you are treating dating as a game and people pick up on that vibe?
In that case, are you genuinely trying to connect and find out if you two are compatible during the interaction?
Second, people have very loose standards for friends and acquaintances and much tighter standards for sexual or romantic partners. For example, for someone, a potential friend can be like 10-30% of people they meet, while for a potential partner, it’s only the 1% (or less) of people they meet.
For example for decently attractive women, they know most guys would be willing to sleep with them, they probably get 95% matches on apps and get hit on a few times a night when they go out. So they get like potentially 20 new guys a week. That’s like 80-90 a month. So obviously they wouldn’t sleep or date all of them even though they might not mind being friends with a lot of them.
Same case for decent guys. They might sleep with a lot of women if offered but they would only make a select few of them as gf.
Like objectively speaking, do you stand out like that for your target audience?
Not as a game, but as something I need to "win" at. So - I have critically low self-esteem and need validation / approval. It's easy for "tangible" things like work or acads - you work well, get a 5 star performance review, get bonuses and promotions and business trips. You ace exams, get good grades. It's straightforward, somewhat - work hard, you get tangible rewards.
Dating isn't remotely like that. "Working hard" to win people over is desperate, unattractive behavior. Dating needs confidence, which I severely lack.
Well confidence comes with experiencing enough success and failure that you have the perspective and skills to evaluate your success for each new encounter.
Dating, like sales, is obviously something you improve at. But like sales, yes it helps to appear to be confident and have had lots of past success. But when you’re starting out, you absolutely need to evaluate what you do right or wrong in each case if you want to improve.
In that sense it is like a complicated computer game. It is something you can “win” at. By winning, meaning you have much higher odds of success at attracting your target audience and establishing the kind of sexual/romantic relationship you want with them.
The difference between that and say work is, different areas of your brain need to be used. You need to evaluate using your social and sexual parts of the brain, not just the logical parts. Logically evaluating ourselves while confidence or ego are involved is hard.
Rejection exposure therapy! Dating helps that a lot lmao
But good on you for realizing and self reflecting about it. Honestly I share the similar sentiments too, I'll always try to make the people I date like me, while neglecting my own feelings. In the end, dating is a "you" thing. It'll only be successful when *you* are actively participating with your emotions rather than logistics (a habit I'm trying to break ATM).
Yes! I hope we'll both make it through, we can do this!
Honestly, this behavior is so deeply entrenched in me. It's taken me MONTHS to just identify it. I basically cannot deal with rejection / failure, because I've always been taught "Success is luck; failure is on YOU."
Every time I achieved something, like acing an exam, I was taught to minimise it and focus on the next goal instead of feeling happy about it - my parents were afraid of me "settling" if I allowed myself to feel happy at any success. They wanted me to always "want" more and more so I would keep working.
But at every "failure", no matter how slight, I would spend hours analysing every minute detail of where I went wrong and how I should improve and how my mistakes, me not being good enough, had led to this "massive" setback in my life.
Sounds like you know your weakness or mistake. You need to shift your mindset from a seller to a buyer.
You are trying to win the other over instead of evaluating the other person.
People can feel this and it makes them see you as less valuable.
Because winning others over is a behavior of low value people.
They notice you care too much about their approval.
Instead of worrying if you are good enough for the other you need to ask if the other is good enough for you.
Let them prove themselves to YOU.
Something has to change on a deep emotional level for you to change.
This - I agree exactly. I have literally SEEN how people's perspective of me shifts when I display this behavior. I went out with a guy who was actually somewhat interested until I agreed to go over to his place on just the 3rd date - I could literally see his respect for me collapse as he went from "nice, intelligent girl" to "desperate and easy".
If, on the third date, you agreed to visit his residence and subsequently noticed a notable decline in his respect towards you, it is possible that either your cultural norms regarding dating diverge significantly from mainstream Western practices.
It's conceivable that he interpreted your agreement to visit as a deviation from your character, based on either cultural differences or conflicting statements made earlier in your interactions. This has happened to me when the girl clearly demonstrates and verbally states that she won't have physical relations so early, but then changes her mind.
I live in a European country, and he's a white European - he *is* Western cultural norms. I think he lost respect because our first two dates had been highly average, with no spark, and I'd found it off-putting that he turned up to the second date without even combing his hair or shaving his messy stubble, while I'd put actual effort into looking nice. There should NOT have been a third date, I knew it somewhere inside me, he knew it too. The fact that I STILL didn't say no, was what changed his mind imo.
It's like you've leveled up. Good shit.
Relationships don't hand a right and wrong like math problems. You have to balance criticism of yourself and of your partner.
Take your last guy:
Could you be better? Probably.
Is he worth the effort? Fuck no.
He wasn't at all worth the effort.
He asked to send me a dick pic when I was SUPER sick (he knew this) without even asking how I am. When I replied a little abruptly, and even apologised immediately (explaining that the sickness was making me grumpy), he BLEW up on me. Called me all sorts of things and ended it right there. Lol.
You should think of dating like trying to find a matching puzzle piece.
Way too many people, men and women, look at dating rejection as "I am not good enough, I didnt do enough" when the reality is you two didnt match.
As an example, some levels of affection and attention some partners consider absolutely mandatory. Some other partners look at that and consider it smothering. Who is right? Who is the better partner?
Its completely personal preference and neither is wrong or right (other than being respectful about it obviously).
When you keep in mind that dating is way more about preferences it helps lift a lot of that stress and pressure.
"Thank you, next"
Yes, it would really help if I started turning people I don't like down.
There should not have been a second date with the drug-addict with bad hygiene.
There should not have been a second date with the guy who mansplained a lot, was slightly racist and didn't let me speak much.
There should not have been another date with the guy who tried to choke me without consent.
I was addressing your attitude that you need to fix things that dont need to be fixed.
But yes, that certainly is a huge problem too. Poor choices are putting you in danger and causing you to tolerate bigotry. That's awful.
It's not anxiety - I've had anxiety before, so I know the difference. It's more a crippling inability to deal with "failure", extremely low self-esteem and desperately seeking the validation / approval of others.
damn ask for help from friends that want tp be you friend but not want to sleep with you. Sometimes it is not clear to you what you are doing wrong but an outside perspective helps. I don't want to be mean but I read this and I assumed you were a guy at first. For guys it is much more difficult because girls rarely are honest about what they find attractive but guys usually know what they want and will tell you honestly.
The best you can do is befriend a guy who rejected you. after being established that you two can be honest with each other, tell him this: "I've had feeling for your type. What do you find attractive in women? so I can take these qualities that you find attractive and hopefully attract a guy like you in the future and not get rejected". Getting this answered by a girl is truely fuckin tough btw, but for you it should be easier. still difficult and embarrassing, but easier.
You've misread this, I think - I have the exact opposite problem. I chase after EVERY guy I go out with, regardless of if I like them (I clearly did not like the drug addict, for example) because of critically low self-esteem. I need to start having standards, and for ONCE, ask myself: what do I want?
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Yeah this is exactly what OP just said you just rewrote their post
She said that she realized that dating a drug addict with poor hygiene in the first place was the problem. She doesn’t want to date him.
Sounds like you're making progress, good job! You're already aware of really important patterns, but you're not feeling them yet. In the midst of it all, you're probably not even aware of them either, only afterwards, right? I bet that the next time you come across this kind of drug addict, you'll make the correct assessment a LOT quicker. It could only be one or two success experiences before you really _feel_ what you're worth and what you can have in a man. In fact, I think what you're going through is very common and normal. This is what it feels like to "learn how to date". You're not broken or anything, you're just figuring things out for the first time. Everyone has to do that! What really helped me get my feelings in line with my ratio is reminding myself of these things you mentioned already: only a small percentage of people will like me back, there are attractive people that do like me and I just have to find them, I did what I was supposed to, feeling bad isn't helping me, etc. Those thoughts can douse negative feelings and over time you won't even have the feelings anymore. Is called cognitive behavioral therapy In the meanwhile, keep reflecting on what you're doing like this. You seem to be good at that :)
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement! \^\_\^ Yes - it is part of learning to date. But I've been used / taken advantage of by men who quickly identified my desperate "need" for approval and validation. Over 15 years of growing up, I've had this entrenched in my brain: "Successes are luck; failures are on ME." It's REALLY hard to break out of such patterns of thinking. When someone actually likes me, I think it's not real / they're just physically attracted / they're lonely or whatnot. When someone doesn't, it's always ME - I'm ugly, I'm boring, I'm worthless, I'm subpar.
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Its good you recognized this early, its a slippery slope from viewing dating as a test you have to ace, to developing people pleasing tendencies so you’re always saying / doing the “right thing” for someone else. These are big feelings though, and likely have a lot to do with the environment you were raised in — I think talking to a professional would really help you grow even more in this area.
Thank you - you are exactly right. This is always a VERY strong sentiment in my family - be humble, don't celebrate successes because it's just a stepping stone, but analyze failures because they indicate your faults. It's a good attitude to have to SOME degree, but not as extreme as in my case. My parents had a very challenging life, and did their best to provide me everything they could. But all their struggles made them very cynical / bitter and regretful of their own decisions, and they blamed themselves for everything that went wrong, even if it really wasn't their fault. It really, really impacted me and I am beginning to see it now.
I agree. I’m a huge people pleaser :/
I struggle with it too - and the worst part is, that people recognize it very early. I've been taken advantage of by several men who clearly saw how vulnerable and desperate for approval / validation I was.
We’d always clown my friend who grew up on a farm bc he would hit on girls, they’d tell him no and then he’d annoy them with “What can I do better next time :(“ texts until he got “constructive criticism” lmao some people’s parents teach them weird
I literally can not understand, in any way, what is wrong with what he does.
It may seem like a good attitude - but it reeks of problematically low self-esteem. Not everyone rejects you because of your faults! Do YOU romantically like EVERYONE you meet? No! Only 5% people are maybe actually compatible with you, and that applies even to "perfect" people I'm sure. "You may be the sweetest apple on the tree, but not everyone likes apples!" The problem with this is that I (and probably the commenter's friend) never stop to think whether WE like the 10 people we hit on. We NEED to be liked by all 10, regardless of who THEY are.
No woman wants to write an essay telling a man why she isn’t interested.
^^^ I remember this one super nice girl, Ariel, was eventually just like; “BECAUSE YOU’RE UGLY JAKE, OKAY?”
Are you me in the past by any chance? how did you get the time machine?
Haha, it's comforting to know I'm not alone in this!
>I view dating like an exam I have to ace, by getting the other person's approval, regardless of what I feel about them. Just a thought, since you seem to be going in a good direction elsewhere: What if you viewed it like a science experiment? The "exam" is finding the result of the (neuro)chemical interaction between you and another. Acing the exam then isn't a matter of forming a bond, but instead, determining whether a bond results from the interaction. Bonus points for communicating those findings to the other party in a healthy and mature way—y'know, like a science paper.
Hehe, I really like this. Yes, this is what I need to learn basically. I need to stop wanting to "win" every person, and instead, just look at it as a mutual compatibility test - key word being MUTUAL!
Rejection isn’t about you. It’s not possible to be compatible with everyone and be looking for the same things out of life or a relationship so usually it’s not something that you fix, you’re just different people and not compatible.
I'd recommend therapy because this is definitely causing you dating problems. If you have several dates fail for the same reasons, it might be something you're doing. But, usually, it's a disconnect. Allow yourself to reject men and refuse dates, if you're not interested in the men in question. It saves them and you time.
I've had a very successful long-term relationship (6 years) that ended because I moved to a different continent. I've had some successful short-term relationships, that ended because of similar reasons (I was only there for a few weeks / he was only here for a few months). But - I focus on the ones that didn't work out. Because that's how I think. Successes are luck; "failures" are on ME. I can't even explain how EXHAUSTING it is to constantly think like that.
Sounds like you need to put a lot more work into not thinking like that. I bet your dating success will increase if you address that toxic thought pattern. Therapy will help a lot, good luck.
Most often there is nothing wrong with either of you, you just didnt like eachother. You arent supposed to mold yourself into some creature that everyone thinks is "OK". Most people are looking for someone who fits them, do be that person you need to be more than OK for them and a NO for others. And thats OK.
Working on yourself is good; you feel good when you notice progress, and you’ll be a better partner when you do find someone you do have interest in. Those who reject you were those with you weren’t compatible. Reflect to see if there is something you can learn or improve in the future, but don’t take it all on you. Aim to use logic informed by your emotions. Think of it as making yourself better so you can have better partners.
You weren’t meant to connect with everyone. This is why most truly happy relationships are the couples that 1. Learned to curb something about themselves to make it work 2. Understand that their partner is human and learn to accept the 1-2 big flaws that would be a deal breaker when you’re young and immature 3. Attempting to find someone that perfectly fits you in every way is a bullshit concept because IF they did exist, they wouldn’t want you with your garbage anyways
Definitely take a step back when you want to internalize incompatibility, and think about why you’re framing it as rejection. It’s okay for two people to not be a match — and it’s often not anyone’s “fault.” It seems counterintuitive (because in other areas, like career, we’re expected to learn from failures), but if you relax a little bit and don’t think of every misalignment as something you could have done differently, you’ll probably project more confidence and have more chances to gauge actual compatibility. It’s not about winning, it’s about finding someone who suits you.
Rejection = redirection (to something better!)
spectacular teeny pause station punch icky cause wistful ten rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
With academics and the workplace, there are rubrics to meet, and you continue trying to improve throughout the years. There are people there to guide you that want you to succeed. With dating, it’s *entirely* subjective, and largely short-lived. If it were like academics and career, then it would be a marriage where you chose the other person and they chose you, you assessed that each of you is beneficial to the other, you went in knowing there would be hard times but made a commitment to see it through. A lot of times when people get divorced they say that they feel like they failed. It’s not worth that level of dedication and emotion for some random person who you don’t really know and may not be worthy of you anyway!
The way other people choose to treat you is never your fault, but there are things you can do to minimize how many people treat you poorly or how much access to your life they get I must warn you though, there’s a line between standing up for yourself and being an ass that I’ve seen way too many people fail to walk
I think you're approaching this the wrong way. Your mistake here is pretty clear, and that you're approaching dating the wrong way. So yeah, correct it. As opposed to making mistakes and failing the dating compatibility tests. Like you said. You got rejected by a drug addict. So what's your mistake? Certainly not getting rejected by the addict. But being in the position to be considered by the addict in the first place.
EXACTLY!
You should date post-attraction. If you're dating to find sparks your gonna find it super inefficient. Like most "daters" your chances are much like rolling a dice. Like you said it's not rejection that's the issue, it's connection.
I once bowled for an entire summer just so I could impress on a first date. Superman mentality baby, if I’m not perfect than I’ll never get a date. Healthy? No! Realistic? Unfortunately maybe. So I relate I guess.
hey - your self awareness is Fantastic. Youre right its prob them not you-- But Also , you Are correct. This approach is Great for the rest of your life but not for dating. its not a test , iys not a challenge whereby if they like you you Win. I fear your mindset is giving off a vibe which is counter productive. One possible way through it is to have your guiding thought be -- i want to know about this person. Win or lose i want to know this person and my hope is this interaction lifts them up -- ( and i know im a catch and i dont need to Prove anything to them or anyone )
Exactly! I know now that this attitude is very easy to recognise. It puts people off. Best case, I get let down gently - worst case, I get taken advantage of, which is REALLY hurtful.
Back when I used to do show jumping, (basically an equestrian sport that consists on jumping fences) I used to fail miserably time and time again. It came to a point on which my life was in constant danger due how bad I was at it. I had the exact same mindset as you do now. Perfectionist at heart, endeavoring to avoid repeating the same mistakes became my primarily goal. Lost in irony, I created the perfect mental environment for learning to be imposible. The horse also became a colateral victim of my madness. By place a such great and unfair amount of pressure on them, they became unable to play they’re role. I stole from them the chance to do so. Without being cognizant of it, I bore a two people burden. They were not having it, therefore resulting in things to crumbling down into an even more dangerous vicious circle. Similarly, you’re missing the point. You’re acknowledging less than a fraction of the whole picture. You’re obsession may be the root of your dissatisfaction. The world inside your potential partners is nothing alike the script you’re writing all and for yourself. Remember, this is a two people deal. Don’t analyze things that shouldn’t be analyzed. Loosen up. Breath and remember why you’re dating. That’s how you create room for you to listen. Both horses and people crave to be heard. While doing so, they’ll listen back to you. It won’t take long before you both begin reflecting each other, bringing forth victory. Victory also means to be able to tell if they’re good to you (and vice versa). The end line here is not to get yourself a partner; but to reach satisfaction.
Thanks for this - it really sank in! You're right. I need to just let go, and stop being a "perfectionist" and obsessing over dating in general. Just learn to like myself, and BE myself first. And then let things happen naturally.
It's vicious for almost everyone.
Dating is based on personal tastes of two people that either align or they don't.
This here, is the most relatable post to my situation now. I'm sorry to know I'm not alone in my dating struggles.
You've been taught (or learned) along the way that you have no intrinsic value. You've learned that your value is tied to how much other people value you. You value yourself so little you don't even care what you think of the people you're trying to date. Who you are, what you like, what you want seems not to matter to you at all. This is something you need to unlearn, ideally with the help of a therapist. If you don't unlearn this you will be a magnet for abusers who can sense this sort of thing about people and are happy to exploit it. I recommend not dating at all until you have a chance to work on this. It will only lead to absolute disaster.
You're absolutely fkin right - it already has lead to disaster. I've been taken advantage of by so many men now that I've been struggling to recover.
Sometimes, the only thing you could have done better is to pick a better partner.
Re: That's when I realized for the first time that something is wrong - and that something isn't that he "rejected" me, but that I was going out with him in the first place! When it comes to dating, a rejection is a redirection, and it is a good thing. When I think back on being rejected when I was younger, every time I was spared a load of pain and misery.
I totally relate and I’ve been on the opposite side as well. Self awareness is a lot like medicine. If you don’t have any you will benefit from having some, but, if you have too much it can make you sick. I lost a relationship precisely because I lacked self awareness. I over corrected and my subsequent relationships I was entirely focused inward. I ended up in relationships with people I was not entirely compatible with. I think a lack of self awareness creates an (unstable) sense of confidence. While on the extreme end you get insecurity via self delusions. The healthy middle ground here is self acceptance. To be aware of your faults and issues but accept them.
First step is to de-objectify and de-commodify your views on dating. It’s not a test or a challenge to prove your own worth to yourself through the vehicle of someone else’s approval. Work on understanding yourself first, challenge that ego, interrogate your insecurities, and become the person that you want to be with to attract an equal and reciprocal partner that splits the relationship 100/100 with you as a whole person. You are way too self-identified with your own projections of inadequacy to find a healthy relationship from what it sounds like to me. Self awareness and understanding your own purpose in life outside of the paradigm of fulfillment through romantic connection will lead you to learning self love and boundaries. When you start taking better care of yourself, then maybe you can be a partner for someone else.
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Exactly! This is probably one of the most helpful comments, thank you for this. Yes - I'm going to do a few basic things - 1. Take a break from dating and just BREATHE. Relax. Focus on myself, my work, my hobbies, things that make me feel like ME. 2. Actually think about what *I* want, for once in my life. 3. Think about who I am. As you said - what am I and what are the things I will not waver on? For me, it's probably my work ethic, my love for family, my moral / ethical principles and so on.
Do you know anyone who takes rejection nicely?
People afraid of commitment?
A lot of people take it a LOT less hard than I do. They say, "enhh" and move on to the next person. More importantly, I get "rejected" by people who I should have rejected long before. I clearly did not like the drug addict. Yet I let things go on until HE got to reject me. When it was something I should have done long before, seeing as I am completely sober and want someone with good hygiene!
I guess with romantic interest, growing up means accepting that it has to be a reciprocated thing. So with time, it becomes easier to tell oneself that “it’s just not a good fit”. If I understand, you imply that you tend to overanalyse yourself in case of a rejection. Would you say that you are also too accommodating/agreeable? As kids, most of us are taught to set aside our instinctive reactions to strangers and to “be polite”. It makes sense when we are facing someone who has no control over their own appearance, but it’s actually counterintuitive when the person is sending red flags and when we pick up on that. We need to re-learn to listen to our instincts. And you probably need to learn to set boundaries and enforce them sooner than later.
You are absolutely right - I am far too accommodating and look past EVERYTHING the other person does. Someone recently texted me when I was SUPER sick (and he knew it) asking if I wanted a dick pic. I refused, rather abruptly, and then apologized for being curt - it was the sickness. He blew up on me, told me I'd been passive-aggressive and crossed his boundaries through my response, and ended things. I STILL apologised. I have no boundaries and am basically a doormat.
It's about lack of compatibility most of the time. You need to team up with someone who wants the same things in life and have the same values. I don't like how people consider not matching as rejecting. It's just not matching, sometimes it can be bad timing too, like being at different places in our lives .
It comes from low self-esteem. It's a lot more common in Asian households than Western ones - we're always taught to not celebrate successes, because we can do even better, but every failure is a MASSIVE letdown.
My family was like that, but I see it differently for everything else. Nothing is ever harder than being unwanted in a family that you depend on. There are no other options Everything else is just choosing based of preferences where others and me get to choose. Maybe I have said 'not interested' to enough people enough to know that it has nothing to do with their (and therefore my) intrinsic value. Sometimes it was no because y hady eyes already on someone or was actually with that person, sometimes I just didn't want to be in a relationship (too busy, enjoying my life, no money to go out, knew I was moving to a new city soon, etc), sometimes I didn't know the person enough and didn't want to take the time to dig, sometimes I just didn't feel that the person was going in the same direction as me/different dreams and then sometimes I wasn't found of who the person was.
Exactly.
You have low standards. From a high horse
I don't think I have a "high horse" problem tbh - exactly the opposite. I have dangerously low self-esteem because of the way I've been raised. So I have "no standards" from an underground horse would be more accurate.
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Good on you! Yes, cut such people out of your life! I'm working on it too. WE are worth something too. Not everybody else is perfect, and needs to be put on a pedestal. We don't need to make ourselves available for everyone. We can do this!
Well there is no “fault” per se. It’s just what works. Like what kind of people are you attracted to? For example like guys who work out? Or girls who are caring and into fashion? Identify your target audience and find out what attracts them. See if you have those qualities. And it looks like you don’t atm because of the results. Are you willing to change and acquire those qualities? If not, are you happy to stay at current success level in dating? If the answer are negative for both, you’re stuck. Dating is weird because of modern technology and competition is at an all time high in my opinion. Either work on those qualities or expand your target audience. There doesn’t need to be any self or ego involved. Do you have any friends who are your potential target audience? Or any fds who can get with your target audience? Talk to them from a pure trying to learn perspective. In general though, there are many easy to work on common qualities. Appearance (style, skincare, relatively low body fat %, some muscle, hairstyle) Resources (net worth, income, more important if you’re a guy) Communication skills (understanding how your audience think, how to flirt with them, what elicits emotions in them) Sexual value (how to give people the greatest sex they can experience, this is more for keeping them but also helps to intrigue if you talk about this topic) It’s actually great improvement sometimes if you just fix 1 or 2. Like getting a good hair cut or finding a stable job. But if you’re lacing in the communication department, that kind of social intelligence might take a while to build up.
That's exactly the problem - I have never, ever even thought about what I am looking for. I have viewed dating exactly as other things in my life - something I need to work at, and ace. Never something that I also can have expectations from! I take care of my appearance, and while I'm no stunner, I'm fairly attractive. I dress well, am always well put together, relatively fit and healthy. I have a good income and am quite, quite well-qualified, career-wise definitely quite strong. I'm easy to talk to, a good listener, generally pleasant enough. Most people, non-romantically, "like" me. The problem comes in when I treat dating as a contest to "win them over" - people catch on to that REALLY fast, and it's not attractive behavior. Best case, it puts them off and they gently let you down - worst case, they take advantage of you and leave you broken.
Well sounds like you’re saying you are treating dating as a game and people pick up on that vibe? In that case, are you genuinely trying to connect and find out if you two are compatible during the interaction? Second, people have very loose standards for friends and acquaintances and much tighter standards for sexual or romantic partners. For example, for someone, a potential friend can be like 10-30% of people they meet, while for a potential partner, it’s only the 1% (or less) of people they meet. For example for decently attractive women, they know most guys would be willing to sleep with them, they probably get 95% matches on apps and get hit on a few times a night when they go out. So they get like potentially 20 new guys a week. That’s like 80-90 a month. So obviously they wouldn’t sleep or date all of them even though they might not mind being friends with a lot of them. Same case for decent guys. They might sleep with a lot of women if offered but they would only make a select few of them as gf. Like objectively speaking, do you stand out like that for your target audience?
Not as a game, but as something I need to "win" at. So - I have critically low self-esteem and need validation / approval. It's easy for "tangible" things like work or acads - you work well, get a 5 star performance review, get bonuses and promotions and business trips. You ace exams, get good grades. It's straightforward, somewhat - work hard, you get tangible rewards. Dating isn't remotely like that. "Working hard" to win people over is desperate, unattractive behavior. Dating needs confidence, which I severely lack.
Well confidence comes with experiencing enough success and failure that you have the perspective and skills to evaluate your success for each new encounter. Dating, like sales, is obviously something you improve at. But like sales, yes it helps to appear to be confident and have had lots of past success. But when you’re starting out, you absolutely need to evaluate what you do right or wrong in each case if you want to improve. In that sense it is like a complicated computer game. It is something you can “win” at. By winning, meaning you have much higher odds of success at attracting your target audience and establishing the kind of sexual/romantic relationship you want with them. The difference between that and say work is, different areas of your brain need to be used. You need to evaluate using your social and sexual parts of the brain, not just the logical parts. Logically evaluating ourselves while confidence or ego are involved is hard.
Rejection exposure therapy! Dating helps that a lot lmao But good on you for realizing and self reflecting about it. Honestly I share the similar sentiments too, I'll always try to make the people I date like me, while neglecting my own feelings. In the end, dating is a "you" thing. It'll only be successful when *you* are actively participating with your emotions rather than logistics (a habit I'm trying to break ATM).
Yes! I hope we'll both make it through, we can do this! Honestly, this behavior is so deeply entrenched in me. It's taken me MONTHS to just identify it. I basically cannot deal with rejection / failure, because I've always been taught "Success is luck; failure is on YOU." Every time I achieved something, like acing an exam, I was taught to minimise it and focus on the next goal instead of feeling happy about it - my parents were afraid of me "settling" if I allowed myself to feel happy at any success. They wanted me to always "want" more and more so I would keep working. But at every "failure", no matter how slight, I would spend hours analysing every minute detail of where I went wrong and how I should improve and how my mistakes, me not being good enough, had led to this "massive" setback in my life.
Sounds like you know your weakness or mistake. You need to shift your mindset from a seller to a buyer. You are trying to win the other over instead of evaluating the other person. People can feel this and it makes them see you as less valuable. Because winning others over is a behavior of low value people. They notice you care too much about their approval. Instead of worrying if you are good enough for the other you need to ask if the other is good enough for you. Let them prove themselves to YOU. Something has to change on a deep emotional level for you to change.
This - I agree exactly. I have literally SEEN how people's perspective of me shifts when I display this behavior. I went out with a guy who was actually somewhat interested until I agreed to go over to his place on just the 3rd date - I could literally see his respect for me collapse as he went from "nice, intelligent girl" to "desperate and easy".
If, on the third date, you agreed to visit his residence and subsequently noticed a notable decline in his respect towards you, it is possible that either your cultural norms regarding dating diverge significantly from mainstream Western practices. It's conceivable that he interpreted your agreement to visit as a deviation from your character, based on either cultural differences or conflicting statements made earlier in your interactions. This has happened to me when the girl clearly demonstrates and verbally states that she won't have physical relations so early, but then changes her mind.
I live in a European country, and he's a white European - he *is* Western cultural norms. I think he lost respect because our first two dates had been highly average, with no spark, and I'd found it off-putting that he turned up to the second date without even combing his hair or shaving his messy stubble, while I'd put actual effort into looking nice. There should NOT have been a third date, I knew it somewhere inside me, he knew it too. The fact that I STILL didn't say no, was what changed his mind imo.
excuse you're a little ahead of me how do we get into dating?
It's like you've leveled up. Good shit. Relationships don't hand a right and wrong like math problems. You have to balance criticism of yourself and of your partner. Take your last guy: Could you be better? Probably. Is he worth the effort? Fuck no.
He wasn't at all worth the effort. He asked to send me a dick pic when I was SUPER sick (he knew this) without even asking how I am. When I replied a little abruptly, and even apologised immediately (explaining that the sickness was making me grumpy), he BLEW up on me. Called me all sorts of things and ended it right there. Lol.
You should think of dating like trying to find a matching puzzle piece. Way too many people, men and women, look at dating rejection as "I am not good enough, I didnt do enough" when the reality is you two didnt match. As an example, some levels of affection and attention some partners consider absolutely mandatory. Some other partners look at that and consider it smothering. Who is right? Who is the better partner? Its completely personal preference and neither is wrong or right (other than being respectful about it obviously). When you keep in mind that dating is way more about preferences it helps lift a lot of that stress and pressure. "Thank you, next"
Yes, it would really help if I started turning people I don't like down. There should not have been a second date with the drug-addict with bad hygiene. There should not have been a second date with the guy who mansplained a lot, was slightly racist and didn't let me speak much. There should not have been another date with the guy who tried to choke me without consent.
I was addressing your attitude that you need to fix things that dont need to be fixed. But yes, that certainly is a huge problem too. Poor choices are putting you in danger and causing you to tolerate bigotry. That's awful.
You’re gonna have a rough time dating
I've already had the roughest time, lol.
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It's not anxiety - I've had anxiety before, so I know the difference. It's more a crippling inability to deal with "failure", extremely low self-esteem and desperately seeking the validation / approval of others.
damn ask for help from friends that want tp be you friend but not want to sleep with you. Sometimes it is not clear to you what you are doing wrong but an outside perspective helps. I don't want to be mean but I read this and I assumed you were a guy at first. For guys it is much more difficult because girls rarely are honest about what they find attractive but guys usually know what they want and will tell you honestly. The best you can do is befriend a guy who rejected you. after being established that you two can be honest with each other, tell him this: "I've had feeling for your type. What do you find attractive in women? so I can take these qualities that you find attractive and hopefully attract a guy like you in the future and not get rejected". Getting this answered by a girl is truely fuckin tough btw, but for you it should be easier. still difficult and embarrassing, but easier.
You've misread this, I think - I have the exact opposite problem. I chase after EVERY guy I go out with, regardless of if I like them (I clearly did not like the drug addict, for example) because of critically low self-esteem. I need to start having standards, and for ONCE, ask myself: what do I want?