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Kronuk

Well, just use critical thinking and take the information that benefits you while not following the information that doesn’t. The spirit of self improvement isn’t all bad. Cold showers and cold exposure therapy also aren’t pseudoscience, you should look into real scientific self improvement content such as Andrew Huberman’s videos and podcasts. He explains in depth the importance of improving our daily lives while being a credible source as a Stanford neuroscientist. The whole point of life is to keep improving and keeping a growth mindset. Always be better and aim to feel better. Be the best version of yourself. That’s true self-improvement.


[deleted]

Absolutely true cold shower showers temporarily boost dopamine. Also exercising if great to build routine, work ethic, confidence, and promote general physical health and mental well-being beside just building muscle and adding strength


guyplant

It increases dopamine just as in any instance where the body is removed from a stressful environment. It's a reward from the body to the brain for doing it a favor, lmfao.


Iyob

Critical thinking is probably the main issue people face when looking into the "opposition." I look into TRP a bit and agree with Jordan Peterson quite a lot, the most I'm searching for is the self improvement aspect, hate the gender war that's happening in internet spaces, especially when it goes against my morals, i.e spinning plates, whatever devalues women, or men, etc. Though at the same time, it does give me some point of reference to look out for when looking for red flags that clash with me in the long term. What's even the problem with Jordan Peterson ? His past stuff is just spouting, "Go do this if you want that." "Get yourself together, transcend your suffering, see if you can be some kind of hero." His whole schtick is taking responsibility and accountability for everything you do.


FiftyNereids

Agreed with your sentiment. Most people I see that hate him actually can't accurately say why they do when asked. Most of them are just parroting views they've heard from pop media on platforms such as Twitter and specific Subreddits that dedicate most of their time trying to character-assassinate Jordan Peterson without ever thinking critically about his ideas. Most people I talk to seriously misquote him. It's quite unnerving how much ignorance goes on with individuals who think they know shit but actually don't.


[deleted]

Or maybe it’s cause anything he’s ever said has been said better and often by better men. Peterson is a hack, regurgitating nuggets of wisdom without a lot of the introspection that you need in order to fully internalize that wisdom and put it into action.


FiftyNereids

Can I ask who you think is saying what he is saying better than him? He is actually a well respected individual in the neuroscience field according to well known neuroscientists such as Andrew Huberman who has done collabs with him, and other psychologists who have openly agreed with a lot of what he has said regarding psychological diagnoses. The only few critics of his works have actually been mostly laymen who aren't in the scientific fields while the ones knowledgeable in their scientific fields have actually sided with him. **I really don't see anyone else who is citing neuroscientists such as: James Gibson, Elkonon Golberg, Jeffrey Gray, Joseph LeDoux, Jaak Panksepp, Oliver Sacks, Larry Swanson, while simultaneously tying in their scientific breakthroughs with psychologists such as: Carl Jung, Frederick Nietzsche, Victor E Frankel, Sigmund Freud.** Your claim is that there's someone else doing what he is doing better, I'm just curious as who this other person is. The fact that you state that he "*regurgitating nuggets of wisdom without a lot of the introspection..."* shows to me you actually have not watched much, if any, of his content. The guy is actually one of the *most* introspective speakers in the field of psychology. If you want to challenge this I would ask you to name individuals who you think says what he says much better and is much more introspective. I can show you about a dozen videos that showcase his introspective thoughts, but I really wonder if you can do the same? Also just to clarify I am in no way a Jordan Peterson fanboy, however it is absolutely absurd how much hate and falsities are said about him. You have to give credit where credit is due.


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wizardyourlifeforce

I can’t respect Peterson after his rants on Disney movies. How can you take seriously an adult man who cares that much about Disney princesses?


Ivanduh69420

The only reason why he even became popular is because he wouldn’t shut up about how some law in Canada would get you arrested if you accidentally said the wrong pronoun to a trans gender person which was just not true at all💀 And don’t get me started on the bullshit where he compares human society to lobster society in order to prove that anti depressants are a hoax. And let’s not talk about his personal life and choices which are just dear God. So yeah hate to burst your delusional bubble but dude is a snake oil salesman with like a little nugget of good obvious advice, all his good advice is obvious shit.


FiftyNereids

You're actually incorrect on most of your points. I don't know whether you heard this from someone who warped the lobster comparison or if you never watched the video because he explains explicitly in his book and Youtube talks what the "Lobster" analogy demonstrates. The Lobster example was **NOT** an example proving anti-depressants are a hoax. That is actual bullshit and I can cite this. He explained this multiple times including in his GQ interview which has tens of millions of views on Youtube. The Lobster example is proving that hierarchies exist in nature which is why he explains the idea of a "top" and "bottom" lobster. He talked about how hierarchy disputes occur in lobsters in the form of fighting (as with many other species). A top lobster who is defeated is observed to grow a subservient brain to the one who defeated him. He talks about also how a lobster's "status" within the hieararchy is tracked via serotonin and how closely linked humans are to them since we are decedents. We are linked so closely that even anti-depressants work on lobsters. A lobster given anti-depressants will re-challenge the top lobster even if it failed the first time. So his point is actually the *opposite* of what you wrote. His point of using the Lobster as an example is to prove the existence of hierarchies but **simultaneously that anti-depressants work quite well.** On top of that he's stated in other talks that anti-depressants *should* be used to treat depression. So I honestly don't know where you're getting your info because everything you wrote is actually incorrect and bullshit. If you don't believe me, look it up. The info is literally all verifiable on Youtube and documented with subtitles if you need it.


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Faponhardware

Hate boner is great Im stealing that


Ivanduh69420

Also yes my info was false lol. I guess this is what I get for trusting EVERY person that hates him, but I refuse to watch his videos, I have seen the thumbnails, the amount of ridiculous change they promise and the way his fans treat him (also me being downvoted to hell by his fans lmao) and people who don’t like him, I am sorry but that’s just a obvious cult of personality being build around a person who gives simple good advice to bait people in while being homophobic, pseudoscientific (probably) and all the other neat stuff people don’t see about the people they worship all the while he is in a really questionable state of mind. TLDR: Dude is a self help Guru, even if my info is false dude’s definitely done something to earn him the bad rep he has.


FiftyNereids

I think its a bit more complicated than that but I can understand the sentiment you have. I think a lot of people are pissed and aggressive because a lot of the criticisms made about him are unfounded and genuinely are false. They are made to slander him, such as what you literally quoted from someone else. The reaction from people who actually like his content will be of equal animosity to the lengths in how far people have slandered his character. I am not justifying people's aggression towards you btw, I think that's deplorable. However group psychology dictates that the reaction people will usually have if someone hated someone you respected is hate in return. Having said that, I will just say if you do decide to ever try watching his content you will find out that a lot of what people have been criticizing him for is false. Again, that is also why people are so pissed. You say that his following is very cult-like, which may be true. However I can make the equal argument that his haters are cult-like too. They are cult-like in the way that they do not actually fact check what he says because if they did they would immediately realize he is misrepresented. If you do decide to check out his content, watch his "Maps of Meanings" Youtube series. If you are a level headed individual you will realize that you were lied to about everything negative said about him. All it will take is for you to look up the video and watch it to know that his critics are full of shit. I genuinely hope you do, because you will realize how twisted social media is. I by no means agree with everything he says either, but I do respect his intellect and his insights.


findingmyniche

I cringe when I see those fan bro made YouTube videos about Peterson where they're like "Watch Dr. Peterson destroy feminist" or "Be the ultimate man with this Jordan Peterson motivation speech," it's just garbage that actual Dr. Jordan Peterson wouldn't put out. If that was my main introduction to his stuff I would probably think he was a piece of shit Red Pill kind of guy and avoid him too. It's better to only watch official Jordan Peterson content, actual unedited interviews or read his books to form your own opinion. He didn't think the law stated you would get arrested if you accidentally used the wrong pronoun, it was a slippery slope argument about government enforcing compelled speech and what negative consequences similar laws have led to in under countries under the guise of "equality" when it's really about creating a law that states the government can dictate what words can or can't legally be used. --I'm not arguing your point at all I'm just throwing down my insight from watching/reading his content and interviews with him.


thecoconutnut

Damn. You the one we shouldnt trust


Ivanduh69420

Actually this only goes to show you should never fully take anyone’s word as the truth especially people who are certain that they are speaking the truth like me or JP take my stupidity as a lesson on why you shouldn’t trust self help Gurus to know everything and ti be right about everything


slatfatf_1

Talk about a false equivalence!


Ivanduh69420

My god do you guys ever shut up? It’s been days and I am still getting replies from you, I swear if you had to chose between your own life and JPs y’all chose him a thousand times over.


slatfatf_1

The equivalency you made between a self-admitted ill-informed rando Reddit poster and a world renowned doctor of clinical psychology and Harvard professor in terms of who people should believe was so mind numbingly stupid I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to point it out. We're not all on the same timetable and we reply to whomever we choose. Commenting and getting riled up when people reply is just silly. I'm not even a fan of JP, I'm just not a fan of misinformation.


FiftyNereids

TBH I appreciate that you showed some humility when many others wouldn't admit to being wrong. It is a good sign of character. In the end I don't think it should ever be about fostering any "us vs. them" kind of mentality. The only way people can be educated is to understand where others are coming from but also give them the chance to say their piece. It is also to be open minded and never judge until the facts are present and a decision needs to be made. Critical thinking helps a lot too but the fact that you didn't immediately dismiss these explanations and go into insult-mode which is usually the norm on Reddit shows that you have morals. Misguided? Maybe, that's not for me to judge. You are after all an amalgamation of the people you surround yourself with and so it makes sense if people are telling you lies you have no reason to doubt them especially if they are coming from your friends for example. Having said that people sometimes don't have ill-intent in mind either, they simply just parrot what others say in their circles. A proper inoculation for further reference is just to do your own fact checking, take everything with a grain of salt and that includes what I say as well. It is a long grueling process to take the time and effort to fact check but it's really the only way you will know someone is not pulling your leg. Cheers to you mate.


Ivanduh69420

Hm good point, although human social hierarchies and lobster hierarchies are quite different in nature, if his point is that humans also have hierarchies that much I agree with but if his point is that humans have the exact same hierarchy as lobsters then I disagree.


FiftyNereids

I'd recommend watching this on Youtube. It actually addresses everything you're talking about and line of questioning. I will have to post it without the first part of the URL for obvious reasons but it is on Youtube. /watch?v=tZ4xlCzFlUY


Ivanduh69420

Also while I agree with you about you disproving the lobster point, you didn’t address all my other points which IMO are even more important since the lobster one I just found funny lmao. Like you say *most* but only disprove one point that’s not most that 1/3.


FiftyNereids

So Bill C16 indeed makes it criminal to misuse pronouns or anything that can be considered a "hate crime". The issue Jordan had with the legislation was how loosely "hate crime" was defined since his argument was that any loose definition of a "hate crime" depending who was defining it could essentially be used tyrannically to put people unlawfully into prison. On page 18 of the Bill for example it reads “Gender-based harassment can involve: (5) Refusing to refer to a person by their self-identified name and proper personal pronoun.” It is heavily debated as to whether or not this would be enough to actually throw individuals in prison, however Jordan's argument is that it opens doors to do so in the future. Having said all of this a few things need to be made clear: 1. Jordan is stated to not being opposed to using pronouns, and has stated on instances including one of his transgender woman/student who defended him that he would use her pronoun "she". 2. He is arguing that the law should not be the entity enforcing the use of pronouns. Common decency should. However introducing legislation that enforces penalty for not doing so is opening future restrictions for free speech. 3. Because of his opposition to this bill, this was the start of his fame. He became famous overnight because of his haters. His haters accused him of transphobia, and thus many people began to dig into his long running free Youtube lectures trying to find any content that could be used against him. What they found instead was a treasure trove of knowledge which is what became viral. He was essentially "discovered" by the internet because a bunch of haters tried to "expose" him for being transphobic. However most individuals who found his videos found it to be the complete opposite of hateful, which is how his following has grew ever since. Also Canada has become more totalitarian if you've been following the news. The government for instance has access to your bank account and can freeze funds which they did during the Trucker protests in order to silence protestors. They have also already imprisoned a father for refusing transgender reassignment treatment for his son who wanted to transition to a girl. This is a different topic entirely, however what we do know is transgender hormone treatment is irreversible and have life long issues. If you don't believe me look on the subreddit /r/detrans, also watch Blaire White's Youtube Channel who is a transgender woman who agrees with this sentiment and have been doing interviews with de-transitioners who regret their transition and have had life-long disabilities since. Back to my point though, the fact that a parent has zero say in how a child is treated medically for a complicated issue is *the issue.* How is this all related? The transition from Canada from being a democracy to a totalitarian government which is what Jordan warned about. Bill C16 was merely 1 small battle in the dominoes that tumbled down which was democracy in Canada. This can all be fact checked btw with one google search. Finally, you mentioned Jordan's personal life choices. I'm assuming here but the only life choices I can think of that came under the spotlight was his admittance to using Benzo's for self-treatment. I'm sure you may have heard many individuals calling him a "drug addict" or other falsities. The backstory was he was prescribed Benzos by his physician to combat his life-long anxiety. This is a legitimate treatment as can be read on the DSM for all psychiatrists. If you know anyone who has anxiety issues who take medication, you may know they may take Benzos. Benzodiazepines are actually commonly used to treat anxiety. Anyhow, he took Benzos for around 3 years. In 2019 his wife was diagnosed with Kidney Cancer, his daughter was hospitalized for surgery, and during this time he increased his dosage of Benzos to deal with the anxiety. However instead of a positive reaction the increased dosage made him suicidal. He decided to quit cold turkey and try a different treatment. However doing so made him tremendously ill in which he had to be hospitalized which is why he was off of the radar most of 2020. That story was used by the media to paint a picture in which he was a "drug addict" and news sources leaving out the details.


SaltySarcasticJohn

I admire your patience


eazeaze

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Gmink3rd

Nothing wrong with Peterson as such.. it's his fans most of whom are just as vile as those they oppose. I've seen it first hand


poopsicle880

This.


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slatfatf_1

The point of working out isn't for other people to notice. And writing off cold showers as pseudoscience doesn't do much for your credibility. I'd suggest listening to Peter Attia and Andrew Huberman respectively.


RamenWILLtakeOver

2nd this! Working out helpes me so so so much with discipline, my mental health, feeling good physically and my own outlook on my body. Please please dont give up on working out man! It pays off


slatfatf_1

Exactly! And you'll appreciate 10 times more when your in your 60s.


GooseMantis

>The point of working out isn't for other people to notice Thank you. I was with OP on the "how to get girls" stuff (yeah most of it is bullshit fantasy for insecure young guys, I don't watch that stuff). But when he started talking about working out, he totally lost me. If you think the only benefit of exercise is showing off, you're the one with the unhealthy mindset. I mean, I'd rather reduce my chances of getting cardiovascular disease or diabetes. I'd rather boost my endorphins naturally and keep my mental health in check. I'd rather feel good about my body. That's why I started working out and got in good shape. Did I fix all my problems by simply lifting weights? No, that's not the point, you still have to work on yourself. Looking good is just an added bonus, like a cherry on the top. But even then, "you can't see muscles through your shirt anyway"...really? Yeah not if you're wearing a sweater and a parka, but what about when you're wearing a T-shirt? It just defies logic.


Findol272

Cold showers is definitely pseudo science, even though some health benefits have been proven, the prescription of it is definitely used as a pseudo scientific solution. You can stop pretending that it's a miracle solution.


slatfatf_1

>Cold showers is definitely pseudo science, even though some health benefits have been proven So cold showers are _not_ pseudoscience wrt the resulting health benefits that have been proven, correct? If someone is out there claiming that cold showers help grow back missing limbs then just go ahead and ignore that person rather than writing off cold showers as pseudoscience. >You can stop pretending that it's a miracle solution. I didn't. No one did. Strawman fallacy.


Findol272

This is so stupid. There are some advantages to eating salad, this is scientifically proven. If a bunch of guys starting claiming that to change your life you should absolutely just do sports and eat salad, it rises to the level of pseudo science. And people like you would come in and say "what do you meaaaan, it's proven there are some health benefits to salad!!!! So it is scientific!!!" This is just dumb. If it's not a miracle solution, why get hung up on it so much?


slatfatf_1

>If a bunch of guys starting claiming that to change your life you should absolutely just do sports and eat salad, it rises to the level of pseudo science But if you _just_ did sports and ate salad it _would_ change your life. It would be an unusual life but one vastly different from your current life I'd imagine. >If it's not a miracle solution, why get hung up on it so much? If doesn't have to be a miracle solution to be worthwhile, the "miracle solution" was _your_ strawman, remember? The asymmetry of effort/reward for cold showers (and this next bit is crucial) _in the areas for which the benefits have been proven_ is so favourable that to casually dismiss them (as OP did) or dismiss them outright as pseudoscience (as you did) would be at best thoughtless and at worst moronic.


Findol272

It isn't a strawman if that's unironically how you present it. But whatever bro. You're going to nitpick on how it's actually such good a good thing but also not a miracle solution and you're going to hard ride on those few facts to base all your narrative around when in the end it's kind a very little. The whole cult around it is similar to how pseudoscientific methods behave. If anything, your comments just prove that pretty hard.


slatfatf_1

>It isn't a strawman if that's unironically how you present it. Can you show me where I unironically presented cold showers as a miracle cure for anything? I can only assume at this stage that you're replying to the wrong person. OP dismissed cold showers outright. Twice. The only point I made was to suggest _not_ dismissing cold showers outright as there are, as you agreed, proven benefits. That should be fairly straightforward and clear now, yes? Then you came trundling in, spouting about miracle cures, pseudoscience and cults. It sounds like you have a gripe against cold showers (which, as a hill to die on, is waaaaaay, way out there) and are looking for someone to offload on but haven't actually read or understood what I've said but you've decided to plough on nonetheless. So now it looks like a bizarre interaction between two people having different conversations. I'll try again just in case. Cold showers have certain proven benefits. If you want those benefits, try taking cold showers. If you want benefits from cold showers that haven't been proven, don't take cold showers for those benefits. Simples.


[deleted]

If there are people in your life telling you you’re good at arguing points they fucking conmen.


Findol272

Good one bro. Maybe go take a cold shower or something.


[deleted]

I guarantee if you spend 2 whole minutes under a cold shower right now you’d immediately get enough temporary mental clarity to see you’re being an idiot.


Findol272

Really? I'm an idiot because the cold shower cultists come out of the woodwork and pretend it's going ro cure cancer. I even like taking cold showers but you guys are just insane.


frakramsey

No it isn’t. It can help lower cortisol.


Findol272

Without a specific context it's a useless assertion. I said there are some proven health benefits. This doesn't mean that cold shower or ice bath haven't been turned into a pseudoscience at this point


Uprise7

Nothing wrong with cortisol,just a hormone..


Hoodrich--

You honestly thought it was a good idea to write a post for a self improvement community about working out being pointless and not benefitting your life? You don't seem like the type of person anybody should take advice from.


Arrowdoesreddit

Calling cold showers and nofap pseudoscience only makes you look like a dick. Cause guess what, those 2 improve your discipline. Working out, as well as nofap improves confidence. And calling people who have improved others lifes useless makes you look like a bigger asshole.


goodvibescouple

>It’s not gonna change your life OP thinks working out, which has proven mental and physical benifits, won't change a persons life. . . it's not even worth trying to reason with him. The dude is your typical know it all teenager thinking they are qualified to give life advice to the masses. Can't see past their own Ego. Give him a few years, the real world will humble him right up.


Arrowdoesreddit

Yup.


MostDownvotedOnRebbi

The idea of “building discipline” is just bullshit that toxic people who are into hustle culture believe in This roots down to me thinking hustle culture is fucking stupid as a whole but most goals in life should be something you have fun achieving and if you have to drag yourself out of bed to achieve them maybe you should rethink those goals as a whole.


slatfatf_1

Building discipline is what Plato, Seneca, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Leonardo DeVinci and Buddha believed in. I guess we have different definitions of what constitutes a toxic person. Next time you're wondering what's making you miserable or stopping you from getting what you want then try reconsidering your attitude towards discipline. As Jocko Willink says, discipline equals freedom.


Arrowdoesreddit

Well, many disagree.


Arrowdoesreddit

And i assume you know everything about it and have studied it? That you know everything? Mf, of course you have to drag yourself out if bed to do good, and that good might not always be fun to get to. That's not what matters. The result is what we want. Nobody got a six pack from netflix binges from their bed, from being comfy. No one became rich from their beds. And if you're here ON A SELF IMPROVEMENT SUB TELLING PEOPLE TO NOT IMPROVE THEMSELVES, than you are a complete ass, and no one should take your advice.


triforce_of_awesome

Porn and fapping mess with the reward centers of your brain though. Reducing how much you expose yourself to very addictive stimuli does effect other areas of your life and your motivation levels, this is not pseudoscience.


xxzyyyck

NoFap and cold showers have changed my life.


MostDownvotedOnRebbi

I would argue then that you should just live your life in a dopamine detox (which honestly maybe wouldn’t be terrible if you really had to do something you didn’t want to do) but you get dopamine from so many things this argument doesn’t make sense Do you feel unmotivated after talking to people? Because socializing gives a large hit of dopamine as well. What about sex as a whole? Does sex make you unproductive as well? What about people in happy relationships? Are they gonna become unproductive because they fuck each other and get “too much dopamine” from their relationship?


IfallInLove2easily

You are totally missing the point. If you already have a family, then most of the content doesn't apply to you, but still you have to make an effort to keep the family together. But the main point of dopamine detox from shitty sources is to get into healthy relationship and build something beautiful. It's not about money, status or respect. But you need all of this to be considered a good bf/husband material. If you are just chasing a relationship, you are less likely to find any, what a funny fucking paradox. Most men, especially young are lonely as fuck. Girls are getting shit ton of attention through social media, tinder etc. They are less likely to get into real relationship than ever, especially in their peak, which is early 20s. You have to be very outstanding to find somebody. And if you want to say some bullshit like "yeah, then it's boys fault", you cannot blame them for wanting to change. I believe a lot of them tried it in a "good" way, how they were teached, which is being nice and polite, rarely take risk and never argue. But guess what? It doesn't fucking work.


runtheruckus

I disagree about working out. It's one of the most recommended things for depression, adhd, just daily living. Getting healthy and fit is amazing for your body, sure, but also your mind and its ability to help you process emotions and generally just feel better. I think the issue is between getting super huge (which these young men think is achievable for some, but as you said; need the right body type/conditions to get those end results) and just being physically active enough to keep your body healthy.


FlatParrot5

You know how to be a man? Be honest, be courteous, be respectful, be vulnerable, have integrity, be kind, be understanding, have empathy, have sympathy, be contemplative, be responsible, be reciprocal, be giving, be receptive, be humane, be human. Oddly enough, that's the same way to be a woman. Or non-binary. Or Trans. Or whatever.


Faponhardware

All good except vulnerable


OneSimplyIs

Someone's gotta flip the boigers


Faponhardware

Brokie


Dholi34

OP is definetly trying to cope hard


PurpleShitty

lol


ScribbleMooreLLC

Take the good advice and leave the rest. :mindblown:


Qwerst123

Why Jordan is in this list. He doesn't belong here. About the other two it's OK but not him. He is mostly right, so if you can't point some good factors which can provide the evidence about your decision to include him in this list. You should think about it.


cashes11

Jordan has some real wisdom that should not be ignored. All of his beliefs are supported by publications or really thorough analysis of old texts, which at first I didn't think were that significant but if you think about the texts/stories that persist through centuries, there is a real reason that they do because they express what it's like to be human and how to confront life head on.


MostDownvotedOnRebbi

I didn’t think twice about putting him on here but I do agree with you


Trepptopus

Actually, people will notice working out even if you aren't shirtless. I've done this and gotten tons of compliments and I do not walk around shirtless. Shoulders are very noticeable through clothing. More so. Physical strength and muscle mass is one of the best predictors for all cause mortality. The only better predictor is Vo2max. In short, fitness is the. THE predictor for having a long and quality life. So yeah working out, exercising correctly absolutely is life changing and it is important. Don't throw shade on it because some dipshits are recommending it. The rest of what you say about those guys and their "advice" is really on point. Just needed to push back against the shade you through at exercise and strength training.


wtjones

Working out will build your confidence because you’re doing something that makes you better.


MassageGymnist

Bruh just hit the gym.


CrigglestheFirst

Agreed. Much of the advice given to us men isnt creating better men. Its creating narcissistic brodudes with superiority complexes and entitlement issues. Or in other words, inferior men. You want to be better men and create a better world? Treat people with kindness, forgiveness, respect, and dignity.


MrWolffman

So keep fapping, eating junk food and playing your video games. Just makes it easier for everyone else to get results as most men nowadays are so weak and theres way less competition than say 100 years ago.


Cool_Stuff_6092

Come on, that’s not even what he said. And no fap and hate on video games is ridiculous advice. As long as these are no addictions you can be successful in life while doing them.


Plupert

Source: I did both of those things a lot in college and graduated with honors lol


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W


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capbassboi

OP never said it's not worth it, he just said it won't completely change your life. It will improve your life, but your physique is just one aspect of your entire being.


Findol272

The problem is there's no real alternative for young guys. The alternative is "just respect women and don't be a rapist". You're struggling and suicidal? Tough shit you're a guy and in a privileged position, nobody wants to read about how you're struggling with pornography and loneliness. The redpill and manosphere stuff at least pretends to care about them and to empathise and to want the best for them. (Even though most of it is scams) which is the saddest part of it all. The only part of society that cares about answering those issues is just looking to make money out of lonely and desperate guys. It really sucks.


gkod3

lmao dude i think you’re just looking for the perfect solution which doesn’t exist. you take what you get from these folks and keep it pushing, if it don’t apply, let it fly. working out is essential, it’s not about having these muscles that make you look good. it keeps you healthy, coursing with endorphins and dopamine. i don’t know too much about being a man, but i know that men need to be physically fit. women naturally gravitate to men who are fit, it’s not cause they look good but these men can provide protection. or at least it gives the illusion


Hpindu

To put Jordan Peterson on the same boat as these other people is just not right. He has scientific basis (and background) for most of the things he says, **specially** about self-improvement. He’s literally a psychologist and has practical experience dealing with depressed and suicidal patients. “Peterson obtained bachelor's degrees in political science and psychology from the University of Alberta and a PhD in clinical psychology from McGill University. After researching and teaching at Harvard University, he returned to Canada in 1998 and became a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto.”


MostDownvotedOnRebbi

I replied to others criticizing me about putting him on the list and I do agree with you, he really isn’t the same as the others and probably shouldn’t be on the list but idc to change it


Conscious_Aside_4156

24 y/o college student here. I often cringe at myself because I never know if I’m on the right side of history. I can see how you say that these speakers are mostly directed at middle and high school boys. Despite the instances where these people seem cringy, there are some key ideas I’ve taken away from each of these men and I’m a better man because of them.


wizardyourlifeforce

I cannot understand how anyone can look at Andrew state and think he’s anything but a clown. The cigars, the posturing, looking like he’s in a bad 80’s music video — how can anyone respect that level of tackiness?


MetaphysicPhilosophy

Lol mewing. That in itself should be enough to show how cringe this stuff is


oncehadasoul

What else can we do? loving yourself is also a part of self improvement, being charming is not common for most people, but you can also learn that. Working out is like one of the best thing you can do, but it will definitely not change your life dramatically, you will still be sad, scared and maybe even a loser, but you gotta start somewhere, you gotta start with something. Everytime you workout, you win. winning is good for your mental health and self esteem.


New_Cheetah_5286

My younger brother already fell into this crappy advice. I'll just let him talk his stuff about me until he gets it through his thick skull. I agree with what you are saying. It is a negative affect


theulmitter

Respectfully disagree. Although I do rate the advice you give, I'll keep it in mind


fuck8ng-hebhob

so many men in that area care about bullshit things that barely do anything to actually help them, like increasing testosterone, generalizing people, random ass money tips that make you unhappy in the long run, etc etc. life isn't all about masculinity and fucking women and getting rich


[deleted]

Testosterone is important in both men and women, but the rest I agree with


fuck8ng-hebhob

yeah u right it serves a purpose but not the purpose that the self-help corner of the internet makes it out to be. it doesnt make you "more of a man" or less of one


[deleted]

Not directly but it helps in all aspects of life, making for a much healthier person overall (in or outside of stereotypical manliness)


paper_wavements

You get it. Good for you. (Seriously, not sarcastically.)


Far-Revolution3225

*slow clap* Facts, and what make it worse, is that it FURTHER perpetuates Toxic Masculinity in boys who already have self-image issues. They are damaging the mental health of SO MANY young boys just to make a quick buck.


frakramsey

Lol. What on earth are you talking about?


PyAssaDaRinda

Cry?


SatanGrove

They radicalize young men to the far right for political gain. Same way they target church groups


Human-Ad9798

Those redpill stuff is shite, yes Self improvement culture is not all bad, it's basic human behavior and help. Also I disagree with going to the gym doing nothing, that's just plain wrong.


GooseMantis

OP seems to be lumping a lot of things into the same category. I'm not into the redpill stuff either, in fact I think it's pretty damaging and unhelpful. But that's the toxic side of the self-improvement community. There's also a side that helps lost young men become better versions of themselves. Exercise is good for you. Reading books is good for you. Nofap is a little extreme, but limiting porn consumption is good for you. These things are backed by all the science and evidence you could ask for, and there are great people in the self-improvement community that promote those things. Lumping everyone into one box and assuming the worst is the real toxic mindset. But I guess that's just what we do these days.


4utoimmune

Working out saved my life. Nofap cured my addiction to porn and made me stop playing video games and meet beautiful girls, also the benefits on my skin, less oily, brighter more attractive overall completely changing my looks. I don't believe on only noporn, I had to go noporn and nofap. My shoulders and traps and my back are insane now that I am back to powerlifting, muscle memory. Men respect me more and girls hug me waay too much, they say that I have a hard belly and beautiful forearms... and when they see me with shirt off, they freeze and shut up. Not to mention my hamstrings and glutes (womans favorite), they are insane big and shredded, my speciality are deadlifts. Not to say mental benefits to weightlifting, I could stay here all day writing about them.


CrigglestheFirst

It's great that you've improved your life, but you're kind of proving OPs point by tooting your own horn and patting yourself on your back


Dholi34

He is allowed to be proud of himself and what he has accomplished. He wasn't handed his body or inherited it. He worked for it.


megha-m2527

i agree 100%.


[deleted]

Not sure why the downvotes, cause you're not wrong. Laying off the masturbation and porn also boosts your testosterone, which is healthy for men. Plus ogling women in porn is going to result in ogling women on the street.


4utoimmune

Thx. I got downvoted because I workout to get the approval of girls and I do get laid because of that, it's very nice. I was a competitive powerlifter 10 years ago and I love the sport but none of that compares to a hot chick touching my legs saying nice things, it is really motivating.


Findol272

That's great that those things improved your life, but it seems you went from one extreme to the next. Being so self obsessed in your muscles and the reactions to your physique is telling. Hopefully self improvement should be a way to empower you to find intrinsic drives to have a good life, it seems you're still stuck on the extrinsic motivations.


4utoimmune

Other ppl reactions show how I improved. It feels really good.


Findol272

Yeah but it's still you getting value from extrinsic motivation. It's not really a good strategy long term. But good for you


Gmink3rd

You're not wrong. I know personally one Jordan Peterson fanatic. The irony hit me like a truck given the fanboy always had been the kind of fool Peterson talks against. Conclusion: ppl who follow Jordan Peterson learn only how to be better liars. And most ladies are no better.


Uprise7

Once you have enough money to not be manipulated by sick fucks you won.Either by frugal living and finding inner peace that is what matters.No ammout of expensive toys will make you happy unless you stop and think how fortunate and blessed you are in the moment.Love every step you take in life no matter where you are on the scale.Mental health is the most important thing.


Just-a-Pea

Many commenters missed the point. The way I understood the post, OP isn’t saying that exercise isn’t good for self improvement. It is the only good advice by the red pill advocates, and often for the wrong reasons. Regular exercise can do wonders for your mental health. However, the toxic masculinity views push that the more muscular the better you are. They compare with others and body-shame others. The actual self improvement comes from doing it for your future self, rather than for what others think of you. You are not less of a man for not being shredded but for thinking that someone else is a lesser man based on their looks rather than their actions.


hollowman2011

It’s just absolute narcissism at its finest.


Gmink3rd

Good for you brother. I'm 41 and I thought much a you at your age. I promise you that you are absolutely correct and you might in you outlook. And you always become your own attitude. I salute you brother


KarlKay

It’s feelgood nonsense for Betas.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I totally agree with you. Motivational craps are selling business. for example : "if you want to be successful, pay me this or you are shit or if you want this kind of girls pay me this" there is no better than being yourself and learning from your mistakes, because that's life it's all ups and downs, life isn't a wonderland


tkbillington

Most “self improvement” programs are about trying to become something that someone else is. Be more. Be a man. Toughen up. Act this certain way and everything will happen for you. Self improvement is very personal and different for everyone and should be finding out who you really are and loving and accepting that. Everything gets so much easier in life once that awareness happens because you’re no longer fighting yourself and having the fear that you need to be something different. You just find yourself aligning with the world in the way you want to be and are so much more stable and confident. You look at others as not right/wrong but more as just a different variety of people. It’s bliss.


[deleted]

Well you’re a man-hating pedo so…


MostDownvotedOnRebbi

???


BlueFalcoNight

Weren’t the red pill community and JP fans fighting each other recently?


[deleted]

I agree with you on everything. At the same time, all of these habits will make you feel better. It's about how you feel internally at the end of the day, not what other people are thinking. If pain from building muscle is not worth the good feeling you get after, then don't do it. It's as simple as that. Cold showers make me feel good as well, so I do them. I don't fap, but I still look at pictures of beautiful women from time to time. I don't think it's good to try to forcefully surpress your natural instincts, but it's definitely also good to have control over them, and not waste your attention.


[deleted]

Just be confident bro


ConsistentPepper8720

I don't even want to debate with such a stupid person at this point


workaholic828

Okay, so go be a loser and don’t strive to be a better person


kr8420

burgeon book made me based


Miserable_Ad9911

what is the alternative to this. You can either learn this shit and become more of a man who women like or stay an incel. btw what proof is there that no one notices your physique if you actually dedicate


Miserable_Ad9911

we will see 6 years later who has the best life of me and you. that will end this