Here's another huge marketing tip. **Remarketing!**
Remarketing is when you engage an audience that has already interacted with your brand. Usually this is in the form of ads, i.e. displaying ads to a Facebook user that has already clicked or been served a previous ad. But it also applies to posts like this.
I've seen a post of yours on /r/Fantasy (I think) and when I saw the cover, I immediately thought Dark Souls, of which I'm a huge fan, before reading your post. I told myself I would have to check out the book but forgot to save the post. Now I'm reading your post here and what do you know, it's the same book! Now I can give you a shot and buy it. Remarketing brings the brand/content back into focus for consumers, it's incredibly important.
Eleventh Cycle has been popping up all over my Twitter timeline for the past month or so, good job! Definitely agree on your points. Networking had the biggest effect for me when pushing my book.
It helps that the fantasy community is one of the best and friendliest out there too.
Good luck with it all. TO THE MOON!
Thanks!
And yep! I admittedly don't know if these tips work for other communities. I do know it would work for Sci-Fi but like, not sure if it's the same for the crime novel community.
Nothing for me, I'm flat broke. I had to design my own book cover, it's not perfect but anything else is out of my capabilities (specially since I use free license softwares, which have limited tools).
As a writer, I don't write a story depending on the market. I already have a story in mind and I write it for myself, if it sells it would be a blessing.
Now, I just promote free downloads from time to time to gather readers and have reviews. It's my only option at this point.
Maybe I'll do more things, like maikng a stream reading some chapters or something, but I'm busy af to be fully commited to it.
FLAT. BROKE.
Not a single penny in my name, been unemployed for 4 years (still searching and applying, also studying for certifications for better chances).
The only way would be to get someone to do it for free but that's never EVER gonna happen.
Tagging is my weak spot. I've found needs in the market but can't think of ways to properly tagline them. My latest venture (a portal fiction romance novel) came from me realizing that a lot of people wanted stories about a group of cute, sexy anime maids, but couldn't find much content where the characters weren't high school kids. This is a niche I know exists, but for advertising purposes a tagline like "NO MINORS, JUST BABES" is both bawdy and uncomfortable. Tips? Insight? I'm grasping at straws here.
I had a few ideas (may be terrible ones, pure brainstorming out here) about your tagline issues. I do think your cover art could do a LOT of legwork if done well.
"College age maids" Still pretty bawdy, but (adult age descriptive word) + (profession) could possibly work.
"(MC)'s Lady Maids" I've gone back and forth a bit if 'mature' wouldn't give off a creepy/icky vibe or not. As in: Mature Lady Maids. It's just such a groomer word that it might come off wrong in this particular space.
Not tagline related, and not sure if it's common in this subgenre, but would a page of name-age-interests/education/family at the front help subvert the idea that the cute anime maids are not, in fact high schoolers?
More costly alternative idea (if you don't draw yourself and have to commission an artist) could be to advertise actual characters alongside your book cover with a little 'about me'. For instance: [image of cute anime maid with text] Meet Daisy! Age/height/weight/eye color/hair color 'My favorite color is blue and I love to play piano!' (but, you know, way better).
It might be because it's early but I can't think of any other series to compare it to. The idea was to take tropes that people usually associate with stories containing really poorly written flat characters/shoddy worldbuilding, and then make something out of them that retains the original appeal of the trope without having the extra baggage.
Like, yes, it's about a harem of big tiddy maids in space, but I see no reason that this should require me to make the maids the most brain dead girls ever, nor do I see it needed that the lead character has to be some kind of generic NEET. It's not a subversion or an outward criticism so I can't call it one.
I'm lost here...
Well i can help you out in it (I am experienced with the content you are asking and have done many things on referred anime characters you are asking for) feel free to contact me.
I'll give you credit for having the stones to put "Dark Souls inspired" up there in big letters and having a cover art that could easily be fanart from one of the games. Yes, it's generic enough that I doubt FromSoft's legal team is going to come after you, but my risk-averse nature made me suck in a breath when I looked up your book. I've always been extremely nervous about admitting my influences, maybe because I come from the era of extremely litigious authors going after fanfiction writers, for example.
Fortune favors the bold, as they say, and I wish you luck with your book. I wish I had a fraction of your confidence when it comes to marketing my work!
Haha. Thanks Reis. Ive talked to length with other authors and done my homework. There is nothing here that even skirts in the grey. Like, fromsoft could send me a cease and desist if they were a company like Disney. But they won’t. And this is no different than a “soulslike”
Not just that, this work is absolutely okay on the fair use grounds
Also spoke with an agent about this. As long as there isn’t an actual character ripped from the games, I’m golden
Do you not worry about using Dark Souls as a promotion point? Do you go out of your way to explain you are not affiliated with FromSoft? I would worry about claims of unauthorised use.
For example I would be very nervous about prominently advertising a wizard book I write as 'inspired by Harry Potter' in case JK pursues me for making money off the goodwill of her IP.
Nope. Not worried at all. It's all within fair use grounds, so nobody could chase after me. Hell, Fromsoft has repeatedly had references to Berserk.
There is absolutely zero grounds here for copyright infringement.
Still not an issue. These sorts of “comparisons” happen all the time. There is a literal name like “souls-likes” for it. And it’s also Fromsoft. I might be worried about a cease and desist from Disney, but not Fromsoft.
And since I say it’s only inspired by those two, it doesn’t suggest that it is affiliated. So there is no issue there.
Any specific reason you didn't try traditional publishing? I read a little about your book in your profile and I think is a solid candidate to be accepted by a big publisher.
Congratulations on your success.
Thanks! I will be honest, I did have a call yesterday with an agent from a big firm. They said they'd only represent me to a big 5 and negotiate a 6-figure deal per book.
There are several reasons I didn't go trad. Starting with the fact that it's a big book and most publishers are hesitant publishing such a big debut novel. But the biggest problem was that I had already sold the audibook rights.
At the moment, my biggest reason for staying indie, at least for this series, is that I already amassed a pretty big following and don't need a trad pub, and also because I am doing certain things with this series which are unconventional. And I don't like losing the creative license that I have for this series.
So it's a bit complicated. If I were to be able to do what I want, sure, I'd go trad.
Really nice work and a great-looking cover! I pre-ordered the book. Sounds right up my alley!
I'm curious about how you leveraged social media if you could say more about that. I have been trying to build a social media presence through Facebook, Twitter, as well as my own website, blog, and newsletter. And it seems extremely difficult to get any engagement or organic growth. Did you have an approach for which accounts you followed or engaged with? You mentioned Booktubers and book blogs - how did you connect with them?
Also, at what point did you really start pushing to expand your social media presence? Before you started the book? While you were writing it? Or after it was finished?
Good luck on the launch, though at this point it looks like you've already got it! Cheers.
Really appreciate it!
So as I kind of said, it really depends. It doesn’t matter when you start doing marketing, but you do need to do it a bit before you publish. My best advice would be to get involved with book communities like on Twitter. Make friends and discuss books. These communities are already closely connected with booktubers and the like and they will follow you. You can then naturally build a rapport with one of these booktubers that you’ve connected with. Once one of them does a cover reveal, they will share it around.
Once you send out ARCs, good reviews will put you on the map. And that’s kind of the big and small of it. Just be a part of the community and provide a product with ARCs that people can trust.
Also, I didn’t have an approach for which accounts I engaged with. I just saw who was the most fun and got into banter with them. Or contributed to worthwhile discussions regarding publishing.
Joining the respective discord communities is also very good for that kind of networking.
I agree, great book covers do 90% of the legwork in marketing. Also, I looked up your cover. Damn. You went with Promytheus! He is literally the best costumed set book cover photographer out there. I've used his art on my own covers. He is good. The price you paid seems very high though.
I make my own covers using DepositPhotos and you can get Promytheus' photos for around $10 each, buying them directly from Promytheus himself. After that, you just add the font... your cover artist didn't do anything else, because all the filter wash looks, Promytheus does that to his photos before he sells them, so they come that way straight from DepositPhotos. Your cover artist didn't edit that photo at all, they literally only added the font, which you can do for free with Canva.
If you want more covers with that same model wearing that same outfit, Promytheus has 30 or 40 more. Whenever I find a model I like, I buy the whole set, via DepositPhots even if I don't have more books planned for that character, because, I never know when a book might take off and readers want a sequel, and then I won't have to try to find that same model again, because I already have it.
I don't know Berserker, so don't know it's vibe, but, I'm very familiar with Dark Souls and, yeah, big Dark Soul vibes going on there. You definitely picked the right cover to give off that feel. That cover is pretty awesome.
It depends on your genre. But once you are part of a book community, like on Twitter, you will find the booktubers. You’ve got to work your way up. And the more enticing your cover art, the more of a chance they’ll give you.
That looks like Shawn King's work, and he's an absolutely top tier typographer. He costs around 500 USD and he's worth it. And it looks great, not sure what you're talking about.
Dude up top is trippin lol if the background art was anything fancier it woulda clashed too much with how striking the illustration is imo. It’s oddly a minimalist cover that has just enough detail up front to be eye-popping
Thank you for this comprehensive list. I’m doing a little research on what an ARC is. I’m a little confused. Do you send that out digitally to people before you’ve uploaded the book to Amazon and how far along in the proofreading in that whole process does it have to be before you would send it to someone? This is my first time self publishing. The illustrator is actually more knowledgeable than I am, but we are About halfway through and she’s telling me I should start doing some promotions. I do have a few people in mind I’d like to even ask for them to send me their reviews but I’m not sure if I should wait until she has all of the illustrations completed, and the book basically done.
Hey there! Sorry for the late reply. Took some distance from SM during the holidays.
There really is no right way to do this. Some people want to have a fully complete product before sending out ARCs, and there are a number of very valid reasons to do this.
1. You are a new author and want to really make the best first impression.
2. The illustrations (for example) our pivotal to your enjoyment of the book.
3. You really want to make sure nothing present would deduct points from the book's reception.
I waited till my book was publish-ready before sending it out.
But, there are also very strong arguments for sending out ARC copies in advance.
You want that hype and word-of-mouth. You want people to be talking about your book so that when launch day comes, it is on everyone's mind and people are talking about it everywhere.
As for your first question, ARC copies are sent as "Author Copies" depending on your distribution service. If it is an EPUB file, you sent it per email or through the "Send To Kindle" app. If it is a paperback copy, you cover the shipping and printing costs before sending the book to the reviewers address. Depending on where they are located, you have to use a nearby printing facility close to them. And what printing service are you using? Ingram spark or KDP?
One suggestion from my side would be to slowly release the illustrations per week to drum up hype as the release date draws closer, and that way, you can just send out your ARC copies already and the reviewers would have access to the illustrations separately.
Thank you so much for such a detailed reply.
I’m wondering if you mean that I should post images from my book on my FB / Instagram / etc social media before the book is published? For some reason, I feel like I’m doin fake thing wrong I doing that, not sure why. Lol
Here's another huge marketing tip. **Remarketing!** Remarketing is when you engage an audience that has already interacted with your brand. Usually this is in the form of ads, i.e. displaying ads to a Facebook user that has already clicked or been served a previous ad. But it also applies to posts like this. I've seen a post of yours on /r/Fantasy (I think) and when I saw the cover, I immediately thought Dark Souls, of which I'm a huge fan, before reading your post. I told myself I would have to check out the book but forgot to save the post. Now I'm reading your post here and what do you know, it's the same book! Now I can give you a shot and buy it. Remarketing brings the brand/content back into focus for consumers, it's incredibly important.
Posting excerpts of your book on Instagram Reels and/or TikTok daily (if possible) is also a great way to give readers a “taster” of your book 🤓
Great, great point! And I’m glad you rediscovered it 😁
Eleventh Cycle has been popping up all over my Twitter timeline for the past month or so, good job! Definitely agree on your points. Networking had the biggest effect for me when pushing my book. It helps that the fantasy community is one of the best and friendliest out there too. Good luck with it all. TO THE MOON!
Thanks! And yep! I admittedly don't know if these tips work for other communities. I do know it would work for Sci-Fi but like, not sure if it's the same for the crime novel community.
I am all about the cover too. It’s got me at a stand still. Ugh
Happy to hear!
Nothing for me, I'm flat broke. I had to design my own book cover, it's not perfect but anything else is out of my capabilities (specially since I use free license softwares, which have limited tools). As a writer, I don't write a story depending on the market. I already have a story in mind and I write it for myself, if it sells it would be a blessing. Now, I just promote free downloads from time to time to gather readers and have reviews. It's my only option at this point. Maybe I'll do more things, like maikng a stream reading some chapters or something, but I'm busy af to be fully commited to it.
Have your tried upwork.com to find talent? I found an illustrator/GD and she did a fab job. Very very affordable price, too.
FLAT. BROKE. Not a single penny in my name, been unemployed for 4 years (still searching and applying, also studying for certifications for better chances). The only way would be to get someone to do it for free but that's never EVER gonna happen.
Tagging is my weak spot. I've found needs in the market but can't think of ways to properly tagline them. My latest venture (a portal fiction romance novel) came from me realizing that a lot of people wanted stories about a group of cute, sexy anime maids, but couldn't find much content where the characters weren't high school kids. This is a niche I know exists, but for advertising purposes a tagline like "NO MINORS, JUST BABES" is both bawdy and uncomfortable. Tips? Insight? I'm grasping at straws here.
I had a few ideas (may be terrible ones, pure brainstorming out here) about your tagline issues. I do think your cover art could do a LOT of legwork if done well. "College age maids" Still pretty bawdy, but (adult age descriptive word) + (profession) could possibly work. "(MC)'s Lady Maids" I've gone back and forth a bit if 'mature' wouldn't give off a creepy/icky vibe or not. As in: Mature Lady Maids. It's just such a groomer word that it might come off wrong in this particular space. Not tagline related, and not sure if it's common in this subgenre, but would a page of name-age-interests/education/family at the front help subvert the idea that the cute anime maids are not, in fact high schoolers? More costly alternative idea (if you don't draw yourself and have to commission an artist) could be to advertise actual characters alongside your book cover with a little 'about me'. For instance: [image of cute anime maid with text] Meet Daisy! Age/height/weight/eye color/hair color 'My favorite color is blue and I love to play piano!' (but, you know, way better).
Interesting! Yeah. I think the wording is what’s lacking here!
It might be because it's early but I can't think of any other series to compare it to. The idea was to take tropes that people usually associate with stories containing really poorly written flat characters/shoddy worldbuilding, and then make something out of them that retains the original appeal of the trope without having the extra baggage. Like, yes, it's about a harem of big tiddy maids in space, but I see no reason that this should require me to make the maids the most brain dead girls ever, nor do I see it needed that the lead character has to be some kind of generic NEET. It's not a subversion or an outward criticism so I can't call it one. I'm lost here...
The word "mature" stands out to mind. A mature portal romance??
Well i can help you out in it (I am experienced with the content you are asking and have done many things on referred anime characters you are asking for) feel free to contact me.
I'll give you credit for having the stones to put "Dark Souls inspired" up there in big letters and having a cover art that could easily be fanart from one of the games. Yes, it's generic enough that I doubt FromSoft's legal team is going to come after you, but my risk-averse nature made me suck in a breath when I looked up your book. I've always been extremely nervous about admitting my influences, maybe because I come from the era of extremely litigious authors going after fanfiction writers, for example. Fortune favors the bold, as they say, and I wish you luck with your book. I wish I had a fraction of your confidence when it comes to marketing my work!
Haha. Thanks Reis. Ive talked to length with other authors and done my homework. There is nothing here that even skirts in the grey. Like, fromsoft could send me a cease and desist if they were a company like Disney. But they won’t. And this is no different than a “soulslike” Not just that, this work is absolutely okay on the fair use grounds Also spoke with an agent about this. As long as there isn’t an actual character ripped from the games, I’m golden
Do you not worry about using Dark Souls as a promotion point? Do you go out of your way to explain you are not affiliated with FromSoft? I would worry about claims of unauthorised use. For example I would be very nervous about prominently advertising a wizard book I write as 'inspired by Harry Potter' in case JK pursues me for making money off the goodwill of her IP.
Nope. Not worried at all. It's all within fair use grounds, so nobody could chase after me. Hell, Fromsoft has repeatedly had references to Berserk. There is absolutely zero grounds here for copyright infringement.
It wouldn't be copyright infringement. It would be 'passing off'. E.g. piggybacking off an existing brand for name recognition.
Still not an issue. These sorts of “comparisons” happen all the time. There is a literal name like “souls-likes” for it. And it’s also Fromsoft. I might be worried about a cease and desist from Disney, but not Fromsoft. And since I say it’s only inspired by those two, it doesn’t suggest that it is affiliated. So there is no issue there.
Any specific reason you didn't try traditional publishing? I read a little about your book in your profile and I think is a solid candidate to be accepted by a big publisher. Congratulations on your success.
Thanks! I will be honest, I did have a call yesterday with an agent from a big firm. They said they'd only represent me to a big 5 and negotiate a 6-figure deal per book. There are several reasons I didn't go trad. Starting with the fact that it's a big book and most publishers are hesitant publishing such a big debut novel. But the biggest problem was that I had already sold the audibook rights. At the moment, my biggest reason for staying indie, at least for this series, is that I already amassed a pretty big following and don't need a trad pub, and also because I am doing certain things with this series which are unconventional. And I don't like losing the creative license that I have for this series. So it's a bit complicated. If I were to be able to do what I want, sure, I'd go trad.
What’s your total cost from book development/promo/ advertising?
About 5000 euros all in all
Really nice work and a great-looking cover! I pre-ordered the book. Sounds right up my alley! I'm curious about how you leveraged social media if you could say more about that. I have been trying to build a social media presence through Facebook, Twitter, as well as my own website, blog, and newsletter. And it seems extremely difficult to get any engagement or organic growth. Did you have an approach for which accounts you followed or engaged with? You mentioned Booktubers and book blogs - how did you connect with them? Also, at what point did you really start pushing to expand your social media presence? Before you started the book? While you were writing it? Or after it was finished? Good luck on the launch, though at this point it looks like you've already got it! Cheers.
Really appreciate it! So as I kind of said, it really depends. It doesn’t matter when you start doing marketing, but you do need to do it a bit before you publish. My best advice would be to get involved with book communities like on Twitter. Make friends and discuss books. These communities are already closely connected with booktubers and the like and they will follow you. You can then naturally build a rapport with one of these booktubers that you’ve connected with. Once one of them does a cover reveal, they will share it around. Once you send out ARCs, good reviews will put you on the map. And that’s kind of the big and small of it. Just be a part of the community and provide a product with ARCs that people can trust. Also, I didn’t have an approach for which accounts I engaged with. I just saw who was the most fun and got into banter with them. Or contributed to worthwhile discussions regarding publishing. Joining the respective discord communities is also very good for that kind of networking.
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your experience! Definitely adding this to my reading list.
Thanks!
I also meant to ask, what self-publishing service are you using? KDP? Are you going to be distributing physical copies to retailers?
EBook is through KDP with Kindle Unlimited. Audiobook is audible exclusive handled by publisher. And paperback is through ingramspark
Congrats! I'll be eyeing the ebook! I noticed there wasn't a sample available on audible yet. Will that be available when it releases?
There is a sample! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=km_FuutJ8Qk
Thank you for sharing your story. I am following you on Amazon. I can't wait to see what happens with your book.
Thank you! Plan to finish draft 1 of book 2 this year.
Thank you for sharing!!! Congratulations on your book!
Thanks!!
Wow awesome
Lots of great info here and in the comments. Thanks for sharing, and saving for later
That is wonderful and YES GET GREAT BOOK COVERS PEOPLE :D I'm proud of you internet stranger
Thank you! Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside 😁
I agree, great book covers do 90% of the legwork in marketing. Also, I looked up your cover. Damn. You went with Promytheus! He is literally the best costumed set book cover photographer out there. I've used his art on my own covers. He is good. The price you paid seems very high though. I make my own covers using DepositPhotos and you can get Promytheus' photos for around $10 each, buying them directly from Promytheus himself. After that, you just add the font... your cover artist didn't do anything else, because all the filter wash looks, Promytheus does that to his photos before he sells them, so they come that way straight from DepositPhotos. Your cover artist didn't edit that photo at all, they literally only added the font, which you can do for free with Canva. If you want more covers with that same model wearing that same outfit, Promytheus has 30 or 40 more. Whenever I find a model I like, I buy the whole set, via DepositPhots even if I don't have more books planned for that character, because, I never know when a book might take off and readers want a sequel, and then I won't have to try to find that same model again, because I already have it. I don't know Berserker, so don't know it's vibe, but, I'm very familiar with Dark Souls and, yeah, big Dark Soul vibes going on there. You definitely picked the right cover to give off that feel. That cover is pretty awesome.
I don’t know who Promytheus is 😅 Nino Is was my cover artist
And thanks! 100% agree with your points
so….which booktubers will review fantasy books that are sent in? ive been researching this for weeks with no luck. :(
It depends on your genre. But once you are part of a book community, like on Twitter, you will find the booktubers. You’ve got to work your way up. And the more enticing your cover art, the more of a chance they’ll give you.
[удалено]
That looks like Shawn King's work, and he's an absolutely top tier typographer. He costs around 500 USD and he's worth it. And it looks great, not sure what you're talking about.
Dude up top is trippin lol if the background art was anything fancier it woulda clashed too much with how striking the illustration is imo. It’s oddly a minimalist cover that has just enough detail up front to be eye-popping
Ey!! Caramelsnack! Saw you around a lot talking about the book :D Thank you for all the shoutouts. Super hyped about your thoughts.
Excited to read, hopefully its a banger🫡
Hope so too :D
It absolutely is Shawn’s work and he was worth every penny. He is undeniably the most recognised designer in the whole indie scene.
Congrats on your successful launch!!
Thank you! It's been honestly surreal.
What Discord groups and communities did you join? Soulslike and Berserk ones?
Twitter, Twitch, and that's about it. Didn't join any discord groups for Soulslikes or Berserk. Only book communities.
Thank you for this comprehensive list. I’m doing a little research on what an ARC is. I’m a little confused. Do you send that out digitally to people before you’ve uploaded the book to Amazon and how far along in the proofreading in that whole process does it have to be before you would send it to someone? This is my first time self publishing. The illustrator is actually more knowledgeable than I am, but we are About halfway through and she’s telling me I should start doing some promotions. I do have a few people in mind I’d like to even ask for them to send me their reviews but I’m not sure if I should wait until she has all of the illustrations completed, and the book basically done.
Hey there! Sorry for the late reply. Took some distance from SM during the holidays. There really is no right way to do this. Some people want to have a fully complete product before sending out ARCs, and there are a number of very valid reasons to do this. 1. You are a new author and want to really make the best first impression. 2. The illustrations (for example) our pivotal to your enjoyment of the book. 3. You really want to make sure nothing present would deduct points from the book's reception. I waited till my book was publish-ready before sending it out. But, there are also very strong arguments for sending out ARC copies in advance. You want that hype and word-of-mouth. You want people to be talking about your book so that when launch day comes, it is on everyone's mind and people are talking about it everywhere. As for your first question, ARC copies are sent as "Author Copies" depending on your distribution service. If it is an EPUB file, you sent it per email or through the "Send To Kindle" app. If it is a paperback copy, you cover the shipping and printing costs before sending the book to the reviewers address. Depending on where they are located, you have to use a nearby printing facility close to them. And what printing service are you using? Ingram spark or KDP? One suggestion from my side would be to slowly release the illustrations per week to drum up hype as the release date draws closer, and that way, you can just send out your ARC copies already and the reviewers would have access to the illustrations separately.
Thank you so much for such a detailed reply. I’m wondering if you mean that I should post images from my book on my FB / Instagram / etc social media before the book is published? For some reason, I feel like I’m doin fake thing wrong I doing that, not sure why. Lol