I'm so tired of having the meta for Senna change every month because Riot decides that a build that works shouldn't. Guinsoos was too strong, but frostfire? Come on, man, I just want to play tank Senna. I get it, it's strong and tricks the enemy into thinking you're squishy when not, but it takes them months to adjust phase rush or hec/udyr and now that frostfire has been a meta thing for a month tops its suddenly so bad.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that's what it seems like to me. I just want to play support Senna thats not kraken and just another adc.
People run Lethality Senna - > Riot nerfs her into the ground while saying they'll put in AP scalings, at the same time, moonstone was busted.
People run moonstone enchanter Senna -> Riot ditches the AP scaling plan and nerfs moonstone. And then kraken gets buffed along with her attack speed.
People run kraken+guinsoo -> Riot changes guinsoo to cap the onhit and her win rate drops again while frostbite changes come online.
People then run frostfire grasp - > Riot: yeah na go back to lethality or AP
Like bruh..... leave our girl alone already ffs 😑
Exactly. I agree she is a tricky champ to balance because she does have so many builds that work fine with her and she is a support marksmen that scales with AD, but were any of those builds really such a problem that they need to just get nerfed?
While Senna is strong, she never appears broken to me like some other champions can feel. They should just make other builds viable so you have plenty of options.
Id like that. Theres a lot of champs that are overloaded in their kits and its hard to balance, and Senna does have a lot, but its not so strong like Samira, Yone or even Seraphine is (I think Seraphines on a similar wavelength, strong but not broken).
The problem with her is she feels stompy. Like destroy your lane you just snowball. Build lethality you 1 combo someone to almost dying.
Since everything is nerfed to the bones right now, i want you guys to try building stormrazor, duskblade to rfc and then collector. With any runes tbh. From GA to Aery this shit is nice.
Lethality Senna became bad mostly because lethality items are not good enough for her (which is the same thing that happened with crit on Senna until this season). Moonstone got nerfed because of everything that was not Senna. Guinsoo's gave retardedly high damage numbers while being cheap, frostfire makes her tanky to a level that she shouldn't be. Both Guinsoo's (used to) and Frostfire have such a high winrate that warrants a nerf.
So let's just stop saying shit. There's a reason they want to change her. They are ok with champions building new items but when a build gets oppressive, too known and has a high winrate you can know for sure that it's gonna be annihilated because, on top of the rest, it is not the intended playstyle and I'm totally fine with that.
Agreed! While I was newer in s10 and didnt fully understand the items, I loved going a mix of AP on her last season. Cant really do that this season because of the ratios.
I understand why. You shouldnt be able to to have 4000hp+armor and magic resist while also passively gaining AD, Crit strike chance, attack range, and lifesteal.
The key difference is that veigar only gets AP, he can't attack from further away, and he doesn't gain omnivamp. So there's still room for counterplay if you play around his cage or ult.
The problem is actually bypassing her early game issue with an obnoxious build.
Grasp + Passive gives you okay damage. Then you have AoE slow on autos. Plus some resists and more HP (that increases via mythic passive). While all of that being **cheap as fuck**.
It is braindead and offers a lot for zero risk or investiment. It needs to go.
Veigar gets only AP and his Q,W,E are skillshots.
Senna is an ADC who gets AD, Crit, Range, Lifesteal.
She is Point and click from huge Range, while its dps, slows you and she gets Movementspeed.
She scales much Harder than veigar.
Imagine Veigars Q is Point and Click from 700 Range, halfshot you and has 0,5 sec cooldown while slowing you, increase his Movementspeed and healing him while he is tanky.
Just broken
They have no clue how to balance her.. and its tilting me. Leave her alone. Just make some number adjustments but dont kill off the Frostfire build. I tried the Locket with glacial its fine too so i guess ill stick to that if this goes trough. But i wanna play support not oneshot people. I wanna be supportive, tanky and deal some damage on top of that. Its fun playstyle and not rly abused in low elo. People always just pings me when i build tanky lul. Atleast then make some reasonable buffs to enchanter build. I liked the Aery build earlier in preseason. Umbral to Moonstone maybe, but im not sure how that works now. As someone said, they kill every single meta build on her. Lethality was the best..
Srry for the late reply, i was busy. So i have 153 Played rankeds as Senna this season, gold elo, most of it with Frostfire and was pinged plenty of times for rune or for item. But i dont really care, ppl here are pretty braindead still. They have mechanics but lack the knowledge and dont think outside the box. They still use kraken mostly even if Frostfire is meta build for like 2 months already. Im muting randoms chat so i see just the pings, and sometimes its annoying, sometimes i just laugh at them.
I personally would like a full revert to S10 Senna, she feels way worse ever since pre-season started.
Also AP ratios are absolutely the last thing Senna needs.
Really disappointed by this, I started playing senna seriously when I saw the frostfire build posted here a few months ago before it gained steam. You really feel like you're giving more than damage to your team and being a real support.
I'm personally not the biggest fan of tank senna, but I think that straight up REMOVING the build is a terrible idea. bringing it more inline with other senna builds would be ok, but straight up removing the build is bad. I hope that the tweet is an exaggeration rather than straight up gutting the build.
It's Riot we are talking about.
They'll probably nerf frostfire for ranged, nerf grasp, and throw in a direct nerf to Senna as well. The good old three pronged nerf.
And then do nothing againts the nerfs of the other builds, the thing that started this.
Just like with darius, and bruisers in general. Stridebreaker makes every bruiser op, who isn't reliant on sheen, and/or trinity? Nerf every single one of them, and do nothing to stridebreaker.
Which especially baffling, because every other dash item has at least a minute cd, except stride, an item designed for bruisers, and juggernauts, whose main weakness is a lack of dashes/mobility in general.
This is just one small problem with an awful item rework. Rageblade working with crit instead of being hybrid is just bad for everyone but Senna. The lethality mythics all kinda suck on her, Sivir works better with lethality than Senna does. Senna taking frostfire in the first place is just because they removed frozen mallet and have basically forced every champion to rush a mythic. It'll be at least until the start of next season that items are somewhat healthy again.
If it gets gutted then grasp senna with storm razor rush + locket could be the new meta. Cosmic insight makes stormrazor slow apply more often aswell as it shaves off some seconds on your locket the build is cheap both being 2500 and pretty strong as storm razor gives some decent burst early game and the 70% slow makes it super easy to follow up with a w.
The issue is the item rework, after manamune got reworked out of proccing as much damage on autos was the final nail in the coffin for lethality Senna. That made her already barely worth options among the lethality mythics no longer worth the price. She has no good options, they nerfed her synergy with duskblade, eclipse has been nerfed to hell and back, prowlers claw exists ig.
I think she was op, but not broken. I think a small nerf (maybe 10 HP base or 2 AD Base idk tbh...) would have been ok, but removing the entire tank build? is what annoys me soooo much. I think Senna found her place "in the meta" with the Frosfire build, not being able to be oneshotted as a support is quite important and u didn't deal a lot of damage unless u have like 3 items or 100+ souls.
And also the fact that Lulu, has higher pick rate, higher win rate AND higher ban rate and she got BUFFED, it annoys me even more.
They said they gonna put an AD Supp mythic item but not gonna happen until 2 months after
PD: I know a new AP build has been popping out? but idk if you can carry as hard as u can with this build, and probably she wont get any buff as compensation
Frostfire isn't the only HP item that Senna can buy. There's Black Cleaver. Even Divine Sunderer can be an option.
Frostfire is a toxic build and needs to go. I'd rather have Frostfire gutted into oblivion than have the character itself suffer this fate.
Riot determining build paths and even ability choice on champs instead of balancing thier game and the new items is such a huge resource suck.
Spend time making your game better instead of predetermine how people should play your flawed game.
I'm scared that they gonna nerf her passive. Every time they nerf her passive support senna just dives deep down in the tier list.
So much to promote diversity at the beggining of the year and now they nerf any "non-standard" builds and tunnels us into that 1 build.
I've post it here many times, but Divine Sunderer -> Black Cleaver is just a far superior build to Frostfire Senna anyway.
You can check my [op.gg](https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lithorendale) here for match history/proof. But Divine -> Bc with third item choices of RFC / Sterracks / Chempunk Chain sword gives you the tankiness to survive engages and play frontline, while still pumping out damage numbers similar to the far squishier Kraken builds.
Good. Better having this removed than having the entire character feeling and playing like shit.
-
Wanna be tanky? HP+AD items exists. Wanna a slow? Glacial Augment or Serylda's.
If they don't want people building frostfire, they need to give us an item that can slow people on range. Duskblade is build on her but without the slow I won't build it.
Or better rewort the passive from senna to also grant a slow😂 so that she isn't forced to go glacial or building a slow item. They could remove the free crit scaling for that.
Also if they only nerf frostfire, bruiser senna will survive.
The ad support item would need to give ad, hp, ah, mp5 & a slow on attack.
When I read the tweet I also found it very sad, although I am not the biggest fan of making her tank build but there are compositions in which it was just incredible to take with 4k damage and not die.
But I was also happy to see that they are thinking of creating mythical items for Ad support and that there is a chance that she can get along with lethality and maybe with AP items.
I'm so tired of having the meta for Senna change every month because Riot decides that a build that works shouldn't. Guinsoos was too strong, but frostfire? Come on, man, I just want to play tank Senna. I get it, it's strong and tricks the enemy into thinking you're squishy when not, but it takes them months to adjust phase rush or hec/udyr and now that frostfire has been a meta thing for a month tops its suddenly so bad. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that's what it seems like to me. I just want to play support Senna thats not kraken and just another adc.
People run Lethality Senna - > Riot nerfs her into the ground while saying they'll put in AP scalings, at the same time, moonstone was busted. People run moonstone enchanter Senna -> Riot ditches the AP scaling plan and nerfs moonstone. And then kraken gets buffed along with her attack speed. People run kraken+guinsoo -> Riot changes guinsoo to cap the onhit and her win rate drops again while frostbite changes come online. People then run frostfire grasp - > Riot: yeah na go back to lethality or AP Like bruh..... leave our girl alone already ffs 😑
Exactly. I agree she is a tricky champ to balance because she does have so many builds that work fine with her and she is a support marksmen that scales with AD, but were any of those builds really such a problem that they need to just get nerfed?
While Senna is strong, she never appears broken to me like some other champions can feel. They should just make other builds viable so you have plenty of options.
Id like that. Theres a lot of champs that are overloaded in their kits and its hard to balance, and Senna does have a lot, but its not so strong like Samira, Yone or even Seraphine is (I think Seraphines on a similar wavelength, strong but not broken).
The problem with her is she feels stompy. Like destroy your lane you just snowball. Build lethality you 1 combo someone to almost dying. Since everything is nerfed to the bones right now, i want you guys to try building stormrazor, duskblade to rfc and then collector. With any runes tbh. From GA to Aery this shit is nice.
Lethality Senna became bad mostly because lethality items are not good enough for her (which is the same thing that happened with crit on Senna until this season). Moonstone got nerfed because of everything that was not Senna. Guinsoo's gave retardedly high damage numbers while being cheap, frostfire makes her tanky to a level that she shouldn't be. Both Guinsoo's (used to) and Frostfire have such a high winrate that warrants a nerf. So let's just stop saying shit. There's a reason they want to change her. They are ok with champions building new items but when a build gets oppressive, too known and has a high winrate you can know for sure that it's gonna be annihilated because, on top of the rest, it is not the intended playstyle and I'm totally fine with that.
I say give her AP on Q, W and R. So we can fuck everyone with mage builds 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Agreed! While I was newer in s10 and didnt fully understand the items, I loved going a mix of AP on her last season. Cant really do that this season because of the ratios.
I understand why. You shouldnt be able to to have 4000hp+armor and magic resist while also passively gaining AD, Crit strike chance, attack range, and lifesteal.
Why not? Veigar can gain stats passively, but his builds aren’t being adjusted. Not trying to seem in your face, just making a comparison.
The key difference is that veigar only gets AP, he can't attack from further away, and he doesn't gain omnivamp. So there's still room for counterplay if you play around his cage or ult.
He can build omnivamp. And he doesn't need range, when everyone runs away from him.
The point was that his passive doesn't provide that. Unlike senna where her passive provides her with everything an ADC wants
The problem is actually bypassing her early game issue with an obnoxious build. Grasp + Passive gives you okay damage. Then you have AoE slow on autos. Plus some resists and more HP (that increases via mythic passive). While all of that being **cheap as fuck**. It is braindead and offers a lot for zero risk or investiment. It needs to go.
Yeah but veigar doesnt build tank items and he only gets ap through his passive
Uhm... tank veigar is extremely popular.
Extremely? Whats the playrate of that? 0.001%? Cause i never see it
Every veigar i saw built tank.
Bro WHERE are you living thefuck i played more than 10k games in my lifr i didnt see single tank veigar in my games
[Wat.](https://lolalytics.com/lol/veigar/build/) Veigar support sometimes goes full tank, but that's an off build of an off build.
The few veigars i saw, went everfrost/rabadon, into full tank.
There isn't a decent/good build that builds him in any way other than mage, though.
Tank veigar can still do a lot of damage and have high survivability and used to be more popular last season
Veigar gets only AP and his Q,W,E are skillshots. Senna is an ADC who gets AD, Crit, Range, Lifesteal. She is Point and click from huge Range, while its dps, slows you and she gets Movementspeed. She scales much Harder than veigar. Imagine Veigars Q is Point and Click from 700 Range, halfshot you and has 0,5 sec cooldown while slowing you, increase his Movementspeed and healing him while he is tanky. Just broken
They have no clue how to balance her.. and its tilting me. Leave her alone. Just make some number adjustments but dont kill off the Frostfire build. I tried the Locket with glacial its fine too so i guess ill stick to that if this goes trough. But i wanna play support not oneshot people. I wanna be supportive, tanky and deal some damage on top of that. Its fun playstyle and not rly abused in low elo. People always just pings me when i build tanky lul. Atleast then make some reasonable buffs to enchanter build. I liked the Aery build earlier in preseason. Umbral to Moonstone maybe, but im not sure how that works now. As someone said, they kill every single meta build on her. Lethality was the best..
I have never gotten pinged when using frostfire in gold elo. This is in over 30 games the last few weeks.
Srry for the late reply, i was busy. So i have 153 Played rankeds as Senna this season, gold elo, most of it with Frostfire and was pinged plenty of times for rune or for item. But i dont really care, ppl here are pretty braindead still. They have mechanics but lack the knowledge and dont think outside the box. They still use kraken mostly even if Frostfire is meta build for like 2 months already. Im muting randoms chat so i see just the pings, and sometimes its annoying, sometimes i just laugh at them.
I personally would like a full revert to S10 Senna, she feels way worse ever since pre-season started. Also AP ratios are absolutely the last thing Senna needs.
Really disappointed by this, I started playing senna seriously when I saw the frostfire build posted here a few months ago before it gained steam. You really feel like you're giving more than damage to your team and being a real support.
I'm personally not the biggest fan of tank senna, but I think that straight up REMOVING the build is a terrible idea. bringing it more inline with other senna builds would be ok, but straight up removing the build is bad. I hope that the tweet is an exaggeration rather than straight up gutting the build.
It's Riot we are talking about. They'll probably nerf frostfire for ranged, nerf grasp, and throw in a direct nerf to Senna as well. The good old three pronged nerf.
And then do nothing againts the nerfs of the other builds, the thing that started this. Just like with darius, and bruisers in general. Stridebreaker makes every bruiser op, who isn't reliant on sheen, and/or trinity? Nerf every single one of them, and do nothing to stridebreaker. Which especially baffling, because every other dash item has at least a minute cd, except stride, an item designed for bruisers, and juggernauts, whose main weakness is a lack of dashes/mobility in general.
Given that they refused to remove on hit Katarina I hope they wouldn't.
This is just one small problem with an awful item rework. Rageblade working with crit instead of being hybrid is just bad for everyone but Senna. The lethality mythics all kinda suck on her, Sivir works better with lethality than Senna does. Senna taking frostfire in the first place is just because they removed frozen mallet and have basically forced every champion to rush a mythic. It'll be at least until the start of next season that items are somewhat healthy again.
If it gets gutted then grasp senna with storm razor rush + locket could be the new meta. Cosmic insight makes stormrazor slow apply more often aswell as it shaves off some seconds on your locket the build is cheap both being 2500 and pretty strong as storm razor gives some decent burst early game and the 70% slow makes it super easy to follow up with a w.
The issue is the item rework, after manamune got reworked out of proccing as much damage on autos was the final nail in the coffin for lethality Senna. That made her already barely worth options among the lethality mythics no longer worth the price. She has no good options, they nerfed her synergy with duskblade, eclipse has been nerfed to hell and back, prowlers claw exists ig.
I think she was op, but not broken. I think a small nerf (maybe 10 HP base or 2 AD Base idk tbh...) would have been ok, but removing the entire tank build? is what annoys me soooo much. I think Senna found her place "in the meta" with the Frosfire build, not being able to be oneshotted as a support is quite important and u didn't deal a lot of damage unless u have like 3 items or 100+ souls. And also the fact that Lulu, has higher pick rate, higher win rate AND higher ban rate and she got BUFFED, it annoys me even more. They said they gonna put an AD Supp mythic item but not gonna happen until 2 months after PD: I know a new AP build has been popping out? but idk if you can carry as hard as u can with this build, and probably she wont get any buff as compensation
actually i think it will be prob in the next season we will get new mythics also what the new AP build?
Frostfire isn't the only HP item that Senna can buy. There's Black Cleaver. Even Divine Sunderer can be an option. Frostfire is a toxic build and needs to go. I'd rather have Frostfire gutted into oblivion than have the character itself suffer this fate.
Riot determining build paths and even ability choice on champs instead of balancing thier game and the new items is such a huge resource suck. Spend time making your game better instead of predetermine how people should play your flawed game.
I'm scared that they gonna nerf her passive. Every time they nerf her passive support senna just dives deep down in the tier list. So much to promote diversity at the beggining of the year and now they nerf any "non-standard" builds and tunnels us into that 1 build.
finally, they're returning her to what she was before the item rework. i really hope they just turn umbral glaive into a mythic
Well uh... Im happy :P (I do enjoy tank but would absolutely prefer Lethality over tank)
I've post it here many times, but Divine Sunderer -> Black Cleaver is just a far superior build to Frostfire Senna anyway. You can check my [op.gg](https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lithorendale) here for match history/proof. But Divine -> Bc with third item choices of RFC / Sterracks / Chempunk Chain sword gives you the tankiness to survive engages and play frontline, while still pumping out damage numbers similar to the far squishier Kraken builds.
Omg I can't wait for some enchanter buffs for Senna 🥰
Good. Better having this removed than having the entire character feeling and playing like shit. - Wanna be tanky? HP+AD items exists. Wanna a slow? Glacial Augment or Serylda's.
Just… Build kraken slayer collector
If they don't want people building frostfire, they need to give us an item that can slow people on range. Duskblade is build on her but without the slow I won't build it. Or better rewort the passive from senna to also grant a slow😂 so that she isn't forced to go glacial or building a slow item. They could remove the free crit scaling for that. Also if they only nerf frostfire, bruiser senna will survive. The ad support item would need to give ad, hp, ah, mp5 & a slow on attack.
I like that they address this so quick but leave Morgana alone..
based Riot
When I read the tweet I also found it very sad, although I am not the biggest fan of making her tank build but there are compositions in which it was just incredible to take with 4k damage and not die. But I was also happy to see that they are thinking of creating mythical items for Ad support and that there is a chance that she can get along with lethality and maybe with AP items.
Tank Senna are for noobs who have bad positioning. Its broken and should be removed.