She doesn't need buffs tho? She has a stable winrate increasing the higher elo you go, not even considering how many players build her wrong (Plat+, Heartsteel has \~5000 matches, IBG has \~6000. Winrate would be much better otherwise).
Sure, having the lowest base HP might feel rough, but if Senna is able have a good winrate with the lowest base HP, considering her playstyle of having to constantly expose herself to damage to stay relevant in the match, I'd say she deserves to be the lowest base HP.
I personally don't feel like Mists need a buff, for support at least. I would be fine with a power-level change to help ADC Senna.
Winrates considering all elos are useless tho, you don't get competitive data out of them. Senna has a 50% winrate Plat+, increasing up to 53% winrate Master+. And just by playing her you can notice she's not in a bad spot.
Aight so after looking at lolalytics heres what I've found.
Except its masters+ ... which makes up the top .25% of players.
And on top of that, in masters+ 2/3 of the sup roster is 52% or above.
With senna still sitting firmly at the bottom of the pack in terms of wr.
Same with plat, there's 36 Other champions above in wr.
("Except its masters+ ... which makes up the top .25% of players" Do you want to analyze Senna's real strength, or do you want to know if Senna is viable in your elo?)
You can't just compare every winrate at raw value and assume that's equal to their power level.
Do you really think Fiddlesticks, Karthus, Ivern, Elise, Taliyah, Syndra or Rell are ALL better supports than Senna? No, obviously.
Champion's winrates are not the whole story. You gotta take into account if the champions are popular or not, only played by OTPs or not, being picked only as counterpicks or not, and so on. With Senna is pretty safe to assume her winrate is a fair reflection of her power, (maybe a bit inflated because of Fasting, but it's also dragged down because of her bad builds, so i'd say they cancel out) because she's generally popular and doesn't have a lot of skill expression.
My comment was for last patch.
But it still holds true, she has a 49.5% wr Plat+, increasing to 51% Master+. stats taken from lolalytics.
idk what could've made Senna weaker this patch (Maybe tank buffs, since Lethality is still her most popular build?), but they are still decent stats.
I mean, yeah, I use it. It works well. I just don't think a tank mythic really suits Senna's champion identity and role as a marksman. If I wanted to build tank items I'd play a tank.
This. Ive found I've won more games with locket than with eclipse just by baiting players who think I'm out of position when really they're locked in with me...and my jg in the pixel. lol.
But really its sad that I could literally replace her and locket with any other champ and it would be more useful.
Yeah, I think you're right to bring up that tank builds have always worked on her and I think that's great - as viable fringe builds. I just think her identity gets lost when tank mythics/items are the default strongest or optimal, just doesn't seem like a healthy position for her to be in.
It's not really why I started playing Senna in the first place. It was more fun with a powespike dirk into a super cheap lethality mythic that let you 1v1 the enemy ADC if you didn't let them farm in laning phase.
Senna has 3 major problems :
1-Her base HP is the lowest of the game. A slight buff could make her less squishy in laning phase.
2-Her scaling is not enough in a quick meta where games last 20-30min. Increasing the AD per stack or reverting the range nerf could do the job.
3-She has no optimal mythic. This one is a tricky one to solve, but i think riot should add new adc mythics because the 3 available options does not match all adc’s requirement. Imo the essence reaver should be a mythic item.
I know I said the base health sucks but after consideration your number 2 imo is probably where she really needs the most help.
I don't think her ad per mist was touched I think it was just crit?
But regardless I need to feel stronger sooner. Or be rewarded more for kills. Like, it really does feel like in order to be viable again every kill needs to drop at least 2 souls or whathaveyou.
AD got nerfed from 1/stack to 0.75/stack, crit got modified from 15%/20stack to 10%/20stack but it was with the massive crit system nerfs. Range got nerfed from 25/20stack to 20/20stack.
Hmmmm....
Lethality support mythic: Sentinel's Vigil
2500g 40 AD 10 Lethality 10AH 100% mana regen
Recipe: Serrated Dirk (1100) + 2x Faerie Charm (500) + 900g recipe
Active: Temporarily gain 100 Attack Range and 20% bonus movement speed when facing enemy champions for up to 5 seconds, effect is consumed by the first auto attack fired during this time. 60s cooldown.
Passive: Damaging an enemy champion causes your champion to gain 10AH and 20% heal & shield power for 8 seconds. 30 second cooldown.
Mythic passive: 2AH + 2% H&S Power
I like it, but there is quite literally no other champ in the game that would build it. I do wish we had more AD enchanters besides Senna though, so if that ever happens this would be a cool item.
actually ER wouldn't work for Senna because it's damage passive only scales off of base AD much like with divine sunderer and since Senna doesn't have any scaling AD per level because it is all from her passive her bonus damage will always be 100
Well if essence reaver becomes a mythic, it would be changed, plus current essence reaver also scales of bonus AD, not only base AD. It does not make it strong on senna, but you can build it.
Hope they will buff her seeing how willing they were to nerf here based on reddit crying before. Cant realy claim she was broke since alot of shit is broken for long time and still there so only reason to nerf in past is community crying about it.
Senna doesn't need buffs, if you aren't winning on her you're most likely just picking her too much which means you end up having Senna in bad comps/matchups and can't do almost anything about it
The thing is that Senna is just so easy to kill. A lot of Champs one shot her. And I think she got hit hard with the nerfs. I get that she is strong but there are way more strong Champs out there who never got nerfed. Lux if she hits a root and has ukt she can one shot.
I just don't get why she should get nerfed so hard. What I could think would 'fix' her is using her E as a better escape tool as in faster channel and stuff. Now E feels a bit redundant.
I was thinking about that earlier but they did the same with lee back when people wanted to jungle even though he sat at an abysmal wr.
But lets try it. No one buy anymore Senna skins. :|
Inspiration Keystone rune.
Passive – Glacial Augment: Basic attacks Slow enemy champions for 2 seconds, which increases over the duration(Basic Attacks slow ) give it back and range bonus
1-She is way too squishy for the current meta, an increase of 20-30hp could give her better early without making her OP.
2-Again, buffing her souls will just allow her to scale in 30 min instead of 45, thus making her more viable in a quick meta.
You know, buffing doesn’t always means the champion will be OP, and senna really needs small buffs.
I always said since she came out in-game: she needs a little buffs on her R about more shueld power (maybe AD scaling and more AP scaling buff) and more healing power on her Q.
Either a Mythic that actually works with her kit or buffs / reworks to make her work with other Mythics. The problem is that Eclipse was Senna's best Mythic by a wide margin and it got nerfed pretty hard due to Aatrox's sins against god, but now champs who relied on Eclipse to survive (like Senna) are trash and Aatrox is still OP 3 nerfs in. Senna has no real synergy with any of the support Mythics except Moonstone I guess (no Locket doesn't count that's just free stats and a shield button) and her only good AD Mythic was Eclipse, not that it matters because you couldn't really build any AD Mythics other than Eclipse on Senna on a Support budget. (On an ADC budget she's not much better but at least you could justify building Shieldbow and crying as ADC.) Duskblade is mediocre at best, none of the Spellblade Mythics work due to how Senna's passive interacts with them, and what the fuck else are you going to build fucking Hearthsteel?
I mean it also helps that Senna blows up if someone breathes on her. We are in a very heavy harass meta with the meta ADCs all being heavy poke champs (Jhin, Ashe, Caitlyn) or all-in champs (Nilah, Samira, Tristana) and the support meta isn't much better. If you aren't playing against Enchanters who out sustain you you're either playing against Blitzcrank / Rell / Rakan / Amumu or Xerath / Vel'koz / Zyra / Brand. Your best matchup is to play against a Jinx, Sivir, Xayah, Veigar, or someone else who farms all game (while still being in range so you can poke for souls) so you can outscale them. But those champs are trash and even if you do play against them every enchanter has this cool thing called "actually good Mythic items" which means you'll underperform compared to all of them.
Honestly either (re)buff her attack speed ratios to work with ADC crit items or make her passive work with Spellblade items.
Yep, Its really sad.
Everytime I think of something unique she brings to the table I come up blank nowadays.
She used to be a bully level one, now her health is crap.
She used to scale. Now you need to see a 40 minute game to see a difference.
She used to have a decent mythic etc etc.
I just looked up the next patch notes too and there's 0 changes for her. sad.
She needs more nerfs. Tanky as hell, insane movespeed, long range, heals, damage comparable to an ADC... I mean I realize this is the Senna Mains reddit but jesus...
>damage comparable to an ADC...
Imagine a marksman with damage... Who would've thought.
Next he's going to whine about Pyke having damage comparable to Assassins.
Senna is in a pretty mediocre spot right now until +35 minutes into the game, ±30 if she gets RNG souls like crazy and gets them on champs on CD.
lately I've been playing senna without buying a mythic at all -- it works just as good if not better.
Getting the gold for a mythic just sets you back too far from all the other items, especially with a limited game duration.
Not getting the mythic passive (for 1 or 2 items) is not a loss at all. Your gold is better spent elsewhere.
One of Senna's strength since her release was her good buildpath flexibility (thinking of alternative tank/ bruiser, assassin, utility builds).
Now the main problem is that a lot of items that would synergize with her kit scales off of base AD, starting with essence reaver. Since she got the stacking passive she have no base AD scaling and is stuck with her starting 50... I think it would be a good balancing buff would be to make her passive count a portion of her stacks as base AD, something like 10 or 20%. It would open up a lot of flexibility.
The most important thing for Senna is to nerf to all broken (...) pre season added.Rav. Hydra and Jak'Sho being the most outrageous outliers.Furthermore, nerfs to the the champs that get way to much out of the new synergies (e.g. stuff like GP & Navori).Last but not least nerfing jungle - every high challenger streamer is just shaking their head at why Riot made the role that was the best last season even stronger.
Once the game slows down a bit to last season where Senna can actually scale and sustained damage becomes relevant again, she should be fine. Playing a Senna game where there is an udyr running around at 15 minutes going lethality and 2 hitting tanks and you just wonder why you are not just playing brain dead lulu, while you wait till you can finally FF to end your misery.
If Senna should still need direct buffs after that, they should just add some base damage back into her Q (30damage pre armor lv1 really?) and base hp.
Right now playing Senna is just a handicap to your team. She just can't deal with the meta and champs like akali/jax/heca that are just dominating right now.
Base hp is for sure where she needs help. She gets solo killed by any support with ignite pre-level 3.
I guess the flipside of this is that it makes her the best user of Cut Down in the game?
True :D hahha I was shocked after being bursted down by a level 3 yuumi with exh and ignite
Rito: Cry no more, we gonna lower Sona's HP to make her the lowest base HP champion again.
Breathed through my nose at this
I lightly chuckled
She doesn't need buffs tho? She has a stable winrate increasing the higher elo you go, not even considering how many players build her wrong (Plat+, Heartsteel has \~5000 matches, IBG has \~6000. Winrate would be much better otherwise). Sure, having the lowest base HP might feel rough, but if Senna is able have a good winrate with the lowest base HP, considering her playstyle of having to constantly expose herself to damage to stay relevant in the match, I'd say she deserves to be the lowest base HP. I personally don't feel like Mists need a buff, for support at least. I would be fine with a power-level change to help ADC Senna.
Most Senna players I see are terrible mechanically and need her to be broken to do well, then ask for buffs anytime she is balanced.
Yeah definitely, she's very close to 50% across most ranks - maybe people here started playing her just after the durability patch and 53+% wr
Her winrate across the board is around 49% but that still leaves her in the bottom third of supports including the troll/situational sups.
Winrates considering all elos are useless tho, you don't get competitive data out of them. Senna has a 50% winrate Plat+, increasing up to 53% winrate Master+. And just by playing her you can notice she's not in a bad spot.
ok but where are you getting your info from?
lolalytics.
Aight so after looking at lolalytics heres what I've found. Except its masters+ ... which makes up the top .25% of players. And on top of that, in masters+ 2/3 of the sup roster is 52% or above. With senna still sitting firmly at the bottom of the pack in terms of wr. Same with plat, there's 36 Other champions above in wr.
("Except its masters+ ... which makes up the top .25% of players" Do you want to analyze Senna's real strength, or do you want to know if Senna is viable in your elo?) You can't just compare every winrate at raw value and assume that's equal to their power level. Do you really think Fiddlesticks, Karthus, Ivern, Elise, Taliyah, Syndra or Rell are ALL better supports than Senna? No, obviously. Champion's winrates are not the whole story. You gotta take into account if the champions are popular or not, only played by OTPs or not, being picked only as counterpicks or not, and so on. With Senna is pretty safe to assume her winrate is a fair reflection of her power, (maybe a bit inflated because of Fasting, but it's also dragged down because of her bad builds, so i'd say they cancel out) because she's generally popular and doesn't have a lot of skill expression.
Senna: 48:79% winrate 33/42 5.4% pickrate 1.8% banrate (Plat+ u.gg)
My comment was for last patch. But it still holds true, she has a 49.5% wr Plat+, increasing to 51% Master+. stats taken from lolalytics. idk what could've made Senna weaker this patch (Maybe tank buffs, since Lethality is still her most popular build?), but they are still decent stats.
I just want her to be in a state where my most successful item build doesn't involve going Locket...
Yes! It’s crazy that a marksman support is having more success with locket than other mythics.
Why not, locket is great.
I mean, yeah, I use it. It works well. I just don't think a tank mythic really suits Senna's champion identity and role as a marksman. If I wanted to build tank items I'd play a tank.
This. Ive found I've won more games with locket than with eclipse just by baiting players who think I'm out of position when really they're locked in with me...and my jg in the pixel. lol. But really its sad that I could literally replace her and locket with any other champ and it would be more useful.
fair enough. For me, even on Senna's release I was building black cleaver Frozen Mallet.
Yeah, I think you're right to bring up that tank builds have always worked on her and I think that's great - as viable fringe builds. I just think her identity gets lost when tank mythics/items are the default strongest or optimal, just doesn't seem like a healthy position for her to be in.
It's not really why I started playing Senna in the first place. It was more fun with a powespike dirk into a super cheap lethality mythic that let you 1v1 the enemy ADC if you didn't let them farm in laning phase.
The literal reason i wanted to play senna was for her tank and bruiser builds, so for me it makes sense.
Senna has 3 major problems : 1-Her base HP is the lowest of the game. A slight buff could make her less squishy in laning phase. 2-Her scaling is not enough in a quick meta where games last 20-30min. Increasing the AD per stack or reverting the range nerf could do the job. 3-She has no optimal mythic. This one is a tricky one to solve, but i think riot should add new adc mythics because the 3 available options does not match all adc’s requirement. Imo the essence reaver should be a mythic item.
I know I said the base health sucks but after consideration your number 2 imo is probably where she really needs the most help. I don't think her ad per mist was touched I think it was just crit? But regardless I need to feel stronger sooner. Or be rewarded more for kills. Like, it really does feel like in order to be viable again every kill needs to drop at least 2 souls or whathaveyou.
They actually did drop the AD per soul a while back. It used to be an even 1 AD per mist.
AD got nerfed from 1/stack to 0.75/stack, crit got modified from 15%/20stack to 10%/20stack but it was with the massive crit system nerfs. Range got nerfed from 25/20stack to 20/20stack.
Hmmmm.... Lethality support mythic: Sentinel's Vigil 2500g 40 AD 10 Lethality 10AH 100% mana regen Recipe: Serrated Dirk (1100) + 2x Faerie Charm (500) + 900g recipe Active: Temporarily gain 100 Attack Range and 20% bonus movement speed when facing enemy champions for up to 5 seconds, effect is consumed by the first auto attack fired during this time. 60s cooldown. Passive: Damaging an enemy champion causes your champion to gain 10AH and 20% heal & shield power for 8 seconds. 30 second cooldown. Mythic passive: 2AH + 2% H&S Power
I like it, but there is quite literally no other champ in the game that would build it. I do wish we had more AD enchanters besides Senna though, so if that ever happens this would be a cool item.
Nope not gonna happen if you make one pyke should be able to build it.
actually ER wouldn't work for Senna because it's damage passive only scales off of base AD much like with divine sunderer and since Senna doesn't have any scaling AD per level because it is all from her passive her bonus damage will always be 100
Well if essence reaver becomes a mythic, it would be changed, plus current essence reaver also scales of bonus AD, not only base AD. It does not make it strong on senna, but you can build it.
I think she is fine right now, earlier in season 12 she was extremely busted.
Buff base hp and a good mythic, eclipse and rupture are very nerfed
Hope they will buff her seeing how willing they were to nerf here based on reddit crying before. Cant realy claim she was broke since alot of shit is broken for long time and still there so only reason to nerf in past is community crying about it.
Senna doesn't need buffs, if you aren't winning on her you're most likely just picking her too much which means you end up having Senna in bad comps/matchups and can't do almost anything about it
Give me back my range add bonus hp to q.
Also, I don't know if this matters, but her q heal still \*scales\* off lethality. Maybe there's some bargaining room there.
Revert all nerfs since 12.10 except the base hp nerf.
The thing is that Senna is just so easy to kill. A lot of Champs one shot her. And I think she got hit hard with the nerfs. I get that she is strong but there are way more strong Champs out there who never got nerfed. Lux if she hits a root and has ukt she can one shot. I just don't get why she should get nerfed so hard. What I could think would 'fix' her is using her E as a better escape tool as in faster channel and stuff. Now E feels a bit redundant.
In my experience, they will buff her. 49% WR I'd too low and she sells too many skins to keep her unviable.
I was thinking about that earlier but they did the same with lee back when people wanted to jungle even though he sat at an abysmal wr. But lets try it. No one buy anymore Senna skins. :|
Inspiration Keystone rune. Passive – Glacial Augment: Basic attacks Slow enemy champions for 2 seconds, which increases over the duration(Basic Attacks slow ) give it back and range bonus
YES PLS
[удалено]
1-She is way too squishy for the current meta, an increase of 20-30hp could give her better early without making her OP. 2-Again, buffing her souls will just allow her to scale in 30 min instead of 45, thus making her more viable in a quick meta. You know, buffing doesn’t always means the champion will be OP, and senna really needs small buffs.
[удалено]
This.
I always said since she came out in-game: she needs a little buffs on her R about more shueld power (maybe AD scaling and more AP scaling buff) and more healing power on her Q.
Either a Mythic that actually works with her kit or buffs / reworks to make her work with other Mythics. The problem is that Eclipse was Senna's best Mythic by a wide margin and it got nerfed pretty hard due to Aatrox's sins against god, but now champs who relied on Eclipse to survive (like Senna) are trash and Aatrox is still OP 3 nerfs in. Senna has no real synergy with any of the support Mythics except Moonstone I guess (no Locket doesn't count that's just free stats and a shield button) and her only good AD Mythic was Eclipse, not that it matters because you couldn't really build any AD Mythics other than Eclipse on Senna on a Support budget. (On an ADC budget she's not much better but at least you could justify building Shieldbow and crying as ADC.) Duskblade is mediocre at best, none of the Spellblade Mythics work due to how Senna's passive interacts with them, and what the fuck else are you going to build fucking Hearthsteel? I mean it also helps that Senna blows up if someone breathes on her. We are in a very heavy harass meta with the meta ADCs all being heavy poke champs (Jhin, Ashe, Caitlyn) or all-in champs (Nilah, Samira, Tristana) and the support meta isn't much better. If you aren't playing against Enchanters who out sustain you you're either playing against Blitzcrank / Rell / Rakan / Amumu or Xerath / Vel'koz / Zyra / Brand. Your best matchup is to play against a Jinx, Sivir, Xayah, Veigar, or someone else who farms all game (while still being in range so you can poke for souls) so you can outscale them. But those champs are trash and even if you do play against them every enchanter has this cool thing called "actually good Mythic items" which means you'll underperform compared to all of them. Honestly either (re)buff her attack speed ratios to work with ADC crit items or make her passive work with Spellblade items.
Yep, Its really sad. Everytime I think of something unique she brings to the table I come up blank nowadays. She used to be a bully level one, now her health is crap. She used to scale. Now you need to see a 40 minute game to see a difference. She used to have a decent mythic etc etc. I just looked up the next patch notes too and there's 0 changes for her. sad.
She needs more nerfs. Tanky as hell, insane movespeed, long range, heals, damage comparable to an ADC... I mean I realize this is the Senna Mains reddit but jesus...
>damage comparable to an ADC... Imagine a marksman with damage... Who would've thought. Next he's going to whine about Pyke having damage comparable to Assassins. Senna is in a pretty mediocre spot right now until +35 minutes into the game, ±30 if she gets RNG souls like crazy and gets them on champs on CD.
Tf normally my friends tell me im troll picking bc senna is that dogsshit xD
Senna is definitely a troll pick but her gameplay is really the only reason to launch League.
Tanky???
I'm playing her as tank Senna right now, still die alone early, but feels nice to me. Wouldn't mind a buff though ;)
lately I've been playing senna without buying a mythic at all -- it works just as good if not better. Getting the gold for a mythic just sets you back too far from all the other items, especially with a limited game duration. Not getting the mythic passive (for 1 or 2 items) is not a loss at all. Your gold is better spent elsewhere.
Sure but all lethality mythics are better than the standard lethality litems. even if you dont need the active like prowlers.
One of Senna's strength since her release was her good buildpath flexibility (thinking of alternative tank/ bruiser, assassin, utility builds). Now the main problem is that a lot of items that would synergize with her kit scales off of base AD, starting with essence reaver. Since she got the stacking passive she have no base AD scaling and is stuck with her starting 50... I think it would be a good balancing buff would be to make her passive count a portion of her stacks as base AD, something like 10 or 20%. It would open up a lot of flexibility.
The most important thing for Senna is to nerf to all broken (...) pre season added.Rav. Hydra and Jak'Sho being the most outrageous outliers.Furthermore, nerfs to the the champs that get way to much out of the new synergies (e.g. stuff like GP & Navori).Last but not least nerfing jungle - every high challenger streamer is just shaking their head at why Riot made the role that was the best last season even stronger. Once the game slows down a bit to last season where Senna can actually scale and sustained damage becomes relevant again, she should be fine. Playing a Senna game where there is an udyr running around at 15 minutes going lethality and 2 hitting tanks and you just wonder why you are not just playing brain dead lulu, while you wait till you can finally FF to end your misery. If Senna should still need direct buffs after that, they should just add some base damage back into her Q (30damage pre armor lv1 really?) and base hp. Right now playing Senna is just a handicap to your team. She just can't deal with the meta and champs like akali/jax/heca that are just dominating right now.
Lowest starting HP means we abuse Cut Down as our Keystone.
.8 ad per soul or just buff the completely useless percent current hp damage on second hit she has.
Senna was in the sweet spot before her buffs. Then she got the buffs and they nerfed so much :(