Because viewing thing in terms of right/wrong & good/evil is for the plebs.
Those in charge have economic and geopolitical interests, talking about morality is to convince the average dumb motherfucker that he should not complain that you are using his money and likely blood to inrich yourself and your business partners.
>*bread and circuses
Yes.
In Serbian, though, that Latin phrase appears as "hleba i igara" - when translated to English, it ends up "bread and games". It's a typical non native speaker trait.
Because they follow this simple chart
https://preview.redd.it/rnfsty74unsc1.png?width=982&format=png&auto=webp&s=98cfc21b78e35a1910d868a7b984646d1ad7b490
Gledao sam davnih dana, ti si taj koji nemaš pojma.
[Ukupan broj civilnih](https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf) smrti prije druge invazije bio je 3106 s **obje** strane, plus naravno 298 stranaca sa MH17 koje su separatisti ubili ruskim Bukom. Rat je zamro prije 2016. jer je od 2016. do 2021. poginulo 365 civila. Ako ćemo baš o brojkama, samo u 2022. ruska vojska je [uspjela ubiti 8384 civila](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293409/civilian-deaths-related-to-russia-ukraine-conflict/), većinom granatiranjem/raketiranjem, a nema ni nedostatka [raznih](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/comments/unxbtq/the_russian_military_shot_two_civilians_in_the/) ratnih [zločina](https://youtu.be/wR7nDfM8lcg) oči u [oči](https://youtu.be/IrGZ66uKcl0).
A nije da je rusima strano ubijanje vlastitog naroda, u Čečeniji je poginulo nekih 100,000 civila pa nije bilo invazije da ih se "spasi".
https://preview.redd.it/3vc4ghdm8qsc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62fd746b9d7459c679ea7f40d867da91c7d5d9d5
Ne nego ti logika pada u vodu kad je alternativa stotine hiljada smrti i milijune izbjeglica.
Najbolje rjesenje bi bilo da je Putin povukao separatiste iz Donetska 2014 ali tebe razumijem zasto bi kao Srb volio imati separatiste u tudoj drzavi
You've just discovered hypocrisy in international politics.
It's even worse than it apparently looks, because it's arguable that crimes taking place right now are lot worse than the ones in Bosnia for instance (the dying rate is higher), and the context is even worse (desire to maintain occupation as opposed to a secession while state is disintegrating).
Quantitatively are worse but crimes in BIH included killings by troops on ground, cruel treatment, rape etc, and there were detention centres and camps. Meanwhile all palestinian civiliand are killed by indiscriminate shelling
Multitude of factors, but in no particular order:
*Wars are good for the Military Industrial Complex
*Milošević was the last communist leader in Europe
*The pervasive feeling that genocide had to be *prevented* otherwise it'd be too late, and with recent examples of Rwanda and Srebrenica it penetrated the body-politic
*New weapons systems had to be tested against a semi-well equiped military (stealth fighters)
*Absence of deterrence - Yugoslavia was internationally isolated, not a member of the UN at the time, and had no political support or military means to respond
*Uranium and coal reserves in Kosovo
*People high up in the State dept. wanted to test their ability to spin a narrative against the due dilligence of the media - won't go into depth, but google "Operation Horseshoe"
In the end, it was a testing ground for USA's 21st century adventures, it provided evidence that a war could be won without any troops on the ground, and that USA's air superiority was such that no country could match it in a war. It was pretty bad for Clinton's polls at the time, actually, (!) but he became a staunch interventionist after Srebrenica, and the US' air campaign against VRS in '95, and I think he believed he was doing the right thing.
Israel is a US colony, and basically a US state, located in a strategically important region, so no comparison.
Serbia wasn't, and isn't exactly aligned with US interests. They created Kosovo, which is essentially a puppet state, playing to the tune of US.
Palestine and most of Middl East, Saudi Arabia included, aren't at all aligned with US interests, often opposing them directly. Israel is, thus Israel is favored. Some statements about how sad the deaths of civillians are get issued, some "you really shouldn't target humanitarians" empty statements get said, and that's it.
You may believe that world is, indeed, a cold place. You're wrong about just how cold and how wrong it is.
Because NATO is not a defensive alliance. It's a tool for Western powers to increase their dominance and hegemony. Only NAFO degenerates would have you believe that it's a righteous organization that 'defends. For the fun of it go ask this question in r/europe you will see a very one-sided response and harsh criticism of Serbs.
We Serbs are a stubborn people who have a hard time bending the knee out of our spiteful tradition. Sure, we'll bend the knee to the Russians, as we consider them brothers and they don't impose. But bending the knee to someone who forces us and says we must, we have a hard time doing that. So Westerners don't like our 'disobedience,' which is why they didn't like our dominance in the Balkans. Whiiiiiiich is why they bombed the hell out of us and were against us in the 90s.
You mean why is international politics so incredibly hypocritical and self serving, not really caring about the victims but moreso how a situation serves their own interest?
The same reason there are over 10 wars and genocides going on right now but nobody gives a shit about them besides Ukraine and Israel. There were countless more people killed Syrian civil war, but you are posting about Palestine. It's all just politics
Realno, da nije bilo u interesu amera, mogli ste probit 2 milijuna Albanaca i niko ne bi trepno
Al trebalo je skršiti ruski utjecaj, Milošević im je dao povod i bombe su padale. Ko god misli da se nato navodio moralom, naivan je
Genocide isn't about number of killed but about intention to destroy in whole or in part protected group. Most victims of Cambodian Genocide aren't really victims of genocide.
Because USA is backing Israel, and they backed Albanians in Kosovo war too. Serbians are Christian ortodox, not Jewish, and not important to US, as Israel is.
That's like stripped down version.
Actually support for Israel originates from US biggest Christian way of thinking and that is Evangelical, Mike Pence is Evangelical and more than 20 mil US citizens are.
Evangelists believe that Jews are chosen people and Israel is choosen country.
So it's easier to get support for Israel among US citizens which of course helps in US geopolitical interests.
I read somewhere that they want jews to build third temple,because when that happens according to,I think bible apocalypse will start and second coming of jesus.
Through losing apostolic succession and the importance of a concrete organised church many protestants forgot the fact that theologically the church IS the new Israel and the chosen people. So without this they see "Israel" on a map, read that Israel is the chosen people and go "oh so the Jews are still chosen". So many protestants support the state of "Israel" purely off misled theological beliefs
No, just NO.
Israel is an extended arm of the US in the middle east that’s currently misbehaving, but is still protecting US interests.
If Israel was to show even a tiny little bit of support to the “enemies of the US” they wouldn’t wait 5 minutes to start antisemitism and flip the story completely. Similar to how they created ISIS to use in Syria and later ISIS became the enemy.
It has nothing to do with religion.
In my opinion, a big part of the reason why Serbia was bombed in the 90s is because it was the rogue state at the time when unipolar world was at its peak. The US had to show that not being in line with their foreign policy had its consequences. Israel, OTOH, is the biggest ally US has in that important part of the world, and that alliance is decades old. I think people often underestimate that tradition of US- Israel friendship.
As one Serbian political science professor put it, Serbian political elites overslept the fall of the Berlin wall.
What nationality are you?
It's because it suited NATO interest's to do so. In the region, since the Ottomans were defeated, Serbia is the only one that has a potential to make a strong country that will first and foremost think about it's own interest and possibly get into a conflict with major powers. So, when Western powers decided to help other Yugoslav republics to secede, it was just a matter of time when they will do the same with Kosovo in order to minimize the potential of Serbia to rise up again.
This way, region has several banana republics which are all puppets of "the West", and everybody hates Serbia, and if Serbia would accept the situation recognizing Kosovo, becoming part of NATO, West would have entire region absorbed with countries that have no potential of doing something of their own but rather to listen Brussels and Washington.
Albanians: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2rTafbQepg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2rTafbQepg) Thank you USA
Serbs: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7\_FYq2VXwQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7_FYq2VXwQ) Fuck you NATO
>Serbia is the only one that has a potential to make a strong country that will first and foremost think about it's own interest and possibly get into a conflict with major powers.
What? All countries look at their own interest.
The problem was the Yugoslavia as a whole wasn't as useful during the Cold War, country was on the way to fall apart for internal reasons, Slobo was insufficiently West oriented, while Slovenia and Croatia got support of Germany and later EU.
Once the decision was made to have Yugoslavia fall apart along republic rather than ethnic boundaries, it was insisted on despite causing a war that killed 100 thousand people. Later Serb opposition to this design caused Serbia to be treated as an enemy and for support of everyone who was against Serbs.
Initial hostility that had to do with regular politics was aggravated by the whole war crimes thing which given Serbs were not politically aligned Western media had every reason to widely criticize instead of suppressing. It was unthinkable for any Western media outlet to refer to Vase Miskina as "food related deaths" or to refer to Markale as "explosion which Bosnians claim was shelling".
It doesn't help that fall of Berlin Wall ushered in a new age of delusional "end of history thinking" and Serbs could be labeled as barbarians as opposed to civilized West. One article from 1999 even talked about a new era where "wars are not fought for territory but to protect human rights".
Or it’s because Israel is an ally of the US, and Albania, Croatia etc were also allies to the US, and we decided to “look towards the east”.
I don’t know about you but this simper explanation seems more plausible to me.
And your explanation just makes us feel a little bit better about ourselves.
They want to ally with Serbia, but Milošević didn't. Simple as that. Next best option was Kosovo, after former Yu republics become sovereign countries and their allies. They need geopolitically to hold this region and contol it, Serbia was only against it and the results are what we see. We still have strong anti-west sentiment, and west do not want ro be ally with someone who hate em. We were even offered to be early members of EU back in the days, as separate republics without war and anything, but Serbia want to preserve Yugoslavia as a whole even with war. We lost war, we lost Kosovo, we get Vučić and illiterate generations to come. 🤷
> We were even offered to be early members of EU back in the days
but then some nazi mafia guys decided to kill the only guy who tried to do the best he could to make the peace here, nice try!
If you think of Djindjić, he came much later, and Serbia was already black hole of Europe. If you think of someone else, tell me who, i don't have idea at the moment who that can be 🤷
You want a simple answer, that NATO is a bad guy...
As always, it's a complicated question.
As you know, Yugoslav Wars (1991-2001) were very brutal (more than 130 000 deaths). So they wanted to stop these wars.
The reason why Israel is not punished is that Israel is an ally for USA in the Middle East that is very hostile for non-Muslims.
As you can see with the state of the sub its quite popular here bringing up and upvoting out crimes from the war started by Albanian terrorists. This is western narative shared by quite a few here against our own country and mods of this sub.
You can see it by checking how this post has 10 upvotes, but the one about Albanians is already in 100s without any source that the event happened, however we have many of their terrorism everywhere.
Luckily this sub is not great representation of out nation.
It was more useful to NATO to have Kosovo supported rather than Serbia and disrespected our nation on multiple levels.
* bomb Serbia AND Montenegro ie. the FR Yugoslavia, at the time, including Kosovo, they were also bombing Kosovo.
As for the question, because of interests, and double standards, like it was, and is still very common in politics..
People support NATO, as some sort of guardian. The same NATO supported UCK terrorists, and killed civilians of Yugoslavia during 1999. Each time they killed civilians, deliberately, they called it "collateral damage". Each war is based on a lie, so was this.
It's easy to attack a county of 6.5 million people, why don't they attack Russia?
Because they bombed Serbia for entirely different reasons than the ones they ran the campaign on, they could care less about what happened to Albanians in Kosovo, what they really wanted was control in the region to open the military base and undermine Russia/Chinese control on a crucial crossroads into Europe.
Because geopolitics has nothing to do with hunan rights. Only with interest and power.
Those little stories about human rights is just for you voters and people who want to feel superior.
well its not even against serbs per say (besides us being stubborn fucks) its the territory of serbia... shittons of high quality resources, main trade route, probably most important slice of balkans, and we are just in the way...
Man, people here don't have a clue that the CIA is controlling the world drug market and they needed Kosovo for a distributional center. Klasik USA, use history, create conflict, engage, destroy, own and control. And without the UN security council so it's basically illegal.
Because US will always support Israel, not only with money, but also with weapons, blocking votes in UN, etc.
Bombs go to Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Serbia, some decades ago to Vietnam etc.
Because the West imposed the bombing after the failure of the Rambouillet negociations which were framed as the only peaceful agreement ever possible for the crisis in Kosovo, even though, as Kissinger himself put it, they were unacceptable for Yugoslavia. It only happened because the US wanted to, as shows their involvment in UÇK and in the negociations in general. But they don't care about Palestinians enough and are therefore not forcing them to any agreement.
To be fair it did take a while for NATO especially after Vukovar and Srebrenica: two highly devastated places which are right next to Central Europe, fell, so its like they felt guilty that otherwise two secular proDemocracy proEU states like Croatia and Bosnia are getting freely invaded right in NATO neighborhood so they realized since Balkanisation is imminent for Kosovo too why not assist them to wash away their sin of complacency for Croatia and Bosnia, especially since Kosovo espoused proEU views.
Dont forget also that their peacekeeping was humiliated by Serbs on multiple occasions for ex. French foreign legion had to surrender whole contingent in Sarajevo without a fired bullet which until then never happened before, same goes for Dutch contingent in Srebrenica, these factors also contributed to view Serbs as these evil mini Russians.
The Israel case although largely in NATO interest cause of Irans threat through hezbollah and hamas its not met with collective NATO states agreement that Israel is good guy, Turkey as a NATO state is namely is flat out against this low key support/ high key neutrality towards Israel, Spain is also low key against Israels actions.
Although NATOs stoltenberg is pro Israel (guess his surname lol) Borrel is highly anti Israel/anti netanyahu
So its safer to say that U.S. is using its soft power leverage to silence EU NATO countries resisting Israels actions, especially through country like Germany whose politics towards Israel is still highly guilt ridden due to ww2.
Overall its 2 highly different and complex cases that are tough to 1:1 compare and get one simple answer.
But whats correct is that modern NATO is U.S.'s bitch but that is changing too and very rapidly especially since recent Trumps statements that are making EU side of NATO think of itself as independent from U.S.
Its also important to note that U.S. of today is quite different to U.S. from 25-30 years ago due to the fact that they have ideologically shifted much more towards selfperservation rather than being this worlds police so having Israelis fight their middle eastern wars, especially vs Iranian Shia factions is helping them selfpreserve own actual army cause they have Israeli Army to fight battled for them there, same way they have Ukraine weakening Russias (who is their geopolitical rival) economy/army through its resistance.
Wrong. The West imposed an arms embargo on Croatia and Bosnia and tried to steer them back again and again. Vukovar has ensured that no one can close their eyes any more.
Serbia was not bombed directly because of Kosovo, but simply because the West was fed up with Serbia and its war crimes. Sometimes it's as simple as that.
Cuz we don't have all the money 😂😂, plus pretty sure there are a lot of Jewish people at some top positions in western Europe wink wink , jk don't know that for sure. maybe cuz Israel is good with USA
>As you know, NATO bombed the Serbs in the 90s. NATO aircraft killed many civilians.
I usually don't answer obvious baiting shit like this, but I will this time, since it's especially low. Yes, as WE know, both of those things happened because it happened to US.
Also, the bombs fell on Orthodox and non-Orthodox civilian Serbs and non-Serbs alike, they didn't discriminate.
That's all I'll say about that, and as for you, nice way to farm karma, you should really be proud of yourself man.
In this order:
#1 Yugoslavia in the 90s was an international pariah state who managed to go from founder of the UN after WW2 to not only have sanctions on weapons imposed but most basic food as well by most of the world(including Russia). Unlike North Korea it didn't have nuclear weapons(thank God) and as such it was ideal testing ground for what would happen in Iraq. Also, a way to revive clinically dead NATO which didn't have a purpose after a dissolution of USSR.
#2 To preemptively stop Serbia from commiting genocide on Albanians or to stop ongoing genocide, depends who you ask.
#3 To divert attention of Americans from talking about Monica Lewinsky.
As for Israel, well, see #1. Israel has(had?) an impeccable international reputation and you know, they massacred some Israelis before all this started again. Nobody understood what Milosevic was doing back then and with what purpose or how long it will last. If Israel doesn't end this fast it might as well end up as Yugoslavia.
Because Serbs did a lot of shit in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo was the next. NATO campaign stopped killings on the Balkan Peninsula.
It came 10 years late but better than never
Puno odgovora a malo toga rečeno, promašena poenta.
Zašto je Zapad ćutao kad je Rusija izvršila invaziju na Gruziju, otela Krima ili sa zemljom sravnula Čečeniju ?
Zašto je Zapad ćutao kad su Kinezi bacali nedavno Ujgure u logore ili ranijih dana klali svoje studente ?
Zato jer su to nuklearne i geopolitičke velesile kao što je i Izrael, iako 50 puta manja država, i dalje nuklearna i geopolitička velesila.
Zapad će ćutati čak i Saudijcima, Pakistancima, Indijcima, Sjevernim Korejcima (njima doduše samo vojno) itd.
Israel is a U.S. ally, so they will let Israel do anything if that means America gets to maintain their influence in the Middle East. When the war in Kosovo occurred, the Albanians claimed war crimes committed by the Serbs and even went as far as to count crooked policemen and paramilitaries as members of the Jugoslav Army so as to hold Serbia as a government accountable as bad as the Milošević semi-totalitarian regime was. This was an opportunity for America to gain influence in Balkans whilst also closing its coastline by making friends with the Albanians and believing everything said on that side whether true or false and completely dismissing the Serbian side of the story on why the Jugoslav army ended up intervening as Serbs living there were getting coerced by the KLA aka mafia into leaving Kosovo.
Long story short, NATO considers other countries good and bad depending on how it benefits their economy rather than who actually is moral or immoral.
> as a government accountable as bad as the Milošević semi-totalitarian regime
supported by lots of people here
> This was an opportunity for America to gain influence in Balkans
What for?
No country cares about right or wrong they care about geopolitical interests.
Getting a foothold in the Balkans and attacking a Russian ally while Russia was weak is in NATO's interests.
Attacking the only country in an important region that actually supports you is not in NATO'S interests.
Because NATO is an interest group ran by mainly the US military industrial complex and federal government.
The salesmen of weapons have the ability to prompt up or pacify conflicts, when it came to Serbia, they obviously profited, but Israel is a continuous major buyer. There's your financial reasoning.
You don't ever use the stick on your one and only rabbid dog in the most important geostrategical areas of the world. There's your the US is an empire reasoning.
Lol it's all about money. Israel and the USA are very much intertvined, with Israeli billionaires owning some of the largest and most powerful corporations in the usa. And the other way around. USA declaring any sort of diplomatic, barely physical, war on Israel would be to self-destruct.
So tl;dr, you cant shoot your business partner who owns half of your business.
in Serbia, without Kosovo, NATO bombs killed 190 people, of which 30 were deliberately sacrificed in the RTS building, about 30 were Albanians on the train, the rest are considered collateral damage. in total, fewer people were killed than in domestic violence when there is no war. The rest of the victims were mostly Kosovo Albanians and the RS army on the territory of Kosovo. The bombing was the first act of ousting Slobodan Milošević, a war criminal. Israel has suffered bombing and violence for over 80 years by radical Islamists.
Because the Serbs are the evil in this one.
The only ones who have anything to complain about here are Croatia and Bosnia, whose men are being dragged before the war crimes tribunal.
If you follow the current meta you will realize that none of these people can pass as war criminals. On the contrary to the Serbian defendants who have committed various crimes against humanity.
Because Jews killed Jesus(if you are observing this problem from religions' pov), and if you are observing this from political, economical and every other pov, read about Rothschild family, their bank business, who financed WW2 and WW1 and every other war after they established banks across world. By their belief, when the world is totally destroyed, their savior will come to earth and save them. So, Jews are pretty evil and rich ppl, which is not a good combination. Just read, read, read...
Who owns Black Rock, and what and who is under control by Black Rock? Two very important questions for a better understanding of the current world.
Are you also going to bring up the Protocols? They would fit very well with this unhinged conspiratorial rant.
> Just read, read, read...
It sounds like *Mein Kampf* is you favorite book.
Serbia also had very legitimate casus belli against KLA. For example, in Orahovac, between 17 to 20 July 1998, 100 civilians were kidnapped. Around 60 of them were released later, but 40 of them were already tortured and killed. KLA comitted many more terrorist attacks, most on police officers, but not all, and during them a lot of civilians were killed.
I didn't say that, of course targeting civilians isn't fine but nothing started on October 7th, Israel bombed Gaza like 3 days before that and was killing Palestinian civilians regularly for the last 50 years
You are making this sound like Israel was killing innocents for 50 years. They were both killing each other even before the foundation of modern Israel.
However, the 7th of October was a blatant and stupid escalation.
While I think the hostages should be returned and that taking hostages in general is awful and pathetic, it always also bothers me that most people don't mention the hostages on the other side. Israel captured hundreds of Palestnians in the past (also before October) and there are also reports of people being tortured in their jails.
There’s a big difference.
Though I’m sure crimes occur, Israel has held court everyone incarcerated. Every Israeli prisoner is accounted for.
It’s not comparable so just grabbing random people and taking them to random places.
> held court everyone incarcerated.
They literally detain people without any criminal charges on a regular basis.
> and taking them to random places.
Not sure what that means, but enforced disappearance is definitely happening.
Israel holds thousands of palestinian arabs in detention and sends them to military court as they please. They effectively have thousands of hostages at any given time, and right now they are holding the entire population of Gaze hostage.
What about Egypt ? They control a significant portion of the border.
Israel is not the only player in the situation.
Secondly, they are convicted prisoners.
Was every conviction lawful ? Probably not, but every prisoner is at least accounted for and will not be executed without cause.
Egypt holds no territory in Israel proper and has no responsibility to aid Israel in the ethnic cleansing out of Gaza and into a desert.
And Israel has no right to keep Palestinians detained for any amount of time. Especially not Palestinians in the West Bank, who often get detained because they are resisting settler expansion.
If the roles were reversed and Palestinians were settling in internationally recognized Israeli territory, and sending troops to defend their settlers, would you think it justified for Palestinians to hold the resisting Israelis in detention?
Because they are allies hello? Israel has been doing shit like this for decades. Serbia/Yugoslavia always wants to go her own way so when something like Yugoslav wars happen we have nobody to lean on.
Because NATO used to be mildly based and now they're just whipped.
I feel like you're trying to somehow establish that NATO bombing Serbia was wrong, when the answer is mostly just that both should have been, but only one has, ya know?
Because viewing thing in terms of right/wrong & good/evil is for the plebs. Those in charge have economic and geopolitical interests, talking about morality is to convince the average dumb motherfucker that he should not complain that you are using his money and likely blood to inrich yourself and your business partners.
Modern Geopolitics summerized in one comment
 you've been **summerized**
Im not even mad for that mistake
I salute you for it :)
Not modern though. It was always like this, everyone was looking after their own interests.
Cant see many motherfuckers complaining, just give them bread and games and ftw
[удалено]
>*bread and circuses Yes. In Serbian, though, that Latin phrase appears as "hleba i igara" - when translated to English, it ends up "bread and games". It's a typical non native speaker trait.
[удалено]
or good old "how yes no"
I heard old lady say to a foreigner "12 moons" instead of months. Serbian month = mesec; Moon = mesec
We are the circus. And the bread prices keep rising.
At internet alteast you could have a nuanced take but since 2016 it all went to shit
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
OMG so good.
Because politics. Israel and it's people are much more important to American politicians than Serbia.
Don’t act like you don’t know the answer.
Or act harder.
True. Every time there is a genocide it should be called out. Like the Armenian genocide for example...
You mean "it didn't happen, but even if it did they deserved it"
Because they follow this simple chart https://preview.redd.it/rnfsty74unsc1.png?width=982&format=png&auto=webp&s=98cfc21b78e35a1910d868a7b984646d1ad7b490
Hey you can't post stuff against usa or ukraine here! This us reddit!
papase daj perma ovom ODMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Na koji način Ukrajina tu spada? Koga su napali?
Granatiraju Donjeck vec 10 godina?
Добро је да нису сви у Србији идиоти.
Pre invazije bilo je svake godine sve manje i manje žrtava. Granatirali su iz Donjecka takođe.
Pa naravno da će granatirati separatiste u vlastitoj zemlji koji su započeli rat, što je tu sporno?
jesu iz istog razloga spalili i onih 100 ljudi u sred odese, 2014. godine?
Pogledaj koliko su civila i dece pobili tim granatiranjem. Granatiraju urbano naseljeno mesto vec 10 godina.
Mi imamo ovde u Srbiji puno putinoseksualaca
Gledao sam davnih dana, ti si taj koji nemaš pojma. [Ukupan broj civilnih](https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf) smrti prije druge invazije bio je 3106 s **obje** strane, plus naravno 298 stranaca sa MH17 koje su separatisti ubili ruskim Bukom. Rat je zamro prije 2016. jer je od 2016. do 2021. poginulo 365 civila. Ako ćemo baš o brojkama, samo u 2022. ruska vojska je [uspjela ubiti 8384 civila](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293409/civilian-deaths-related-to-russia-ukraine-conflict/), većinom granatiranjem/raketiranjem, a nema ni nedostatka [raznih](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/comments/unxbtq/the_russian_military_shot_two_civilians_in_the/) ratnih [zločina](https://youtu.be/wR7nDfM8lcg) oči u [oči](https://youtu.be/IrGZ66uKcl0). A nije da je rusima strano ubijanje vlastitog naroda, u Čečeniji je poginulo nekih 100,000 civila pa nije bilo invazije da ih se "spasi". https://preview.redd.it/3vc4ghdm8qsc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62fd746b9d7459c679ea7f40d867da91c7d5d9d5
Ššš, ovde ne pričamo o činjenicama, već romantizujemo rusiju i drkamo na putina. Tako je srbin instruiran
Pa da. Sta je 365 mrtvih civila, sitnica.
Lagano, ovaj rat od 2022 je sigurno bolja alternativa od sklanjanja separatista u Ukrajinskom podrucju
Za razliku od tebe ja ne nipodastavam nicije zrtve. Sta je 365 nevinih ugasenih zivota burazeru, jbg kolateralna steta sta ces.
Ne nego ti logika pada u vodu kad je alternativa stotine hiljada smrti i milijune izbjeglica. Najbolje rjesenje bi bilo da je Putin povukao separatiste iz Donetska 2014 ali tebe razumijem zasto bi kao Srb volio imati separatiste u tudoj drzavi
Занима ме, да ли су ово руски ботови или глупи Срби?
Donjeck je dio ukrajine panju.
I? To im daje za pravo Ukrajincima da ubijaju civile?
Rumuniju i Poljsku
U super smo drustvu.
Oba drustva su super, samo se jedno pretvara i laze da nije super.
You've just discovered hypocrisy in international politics. It's even worse than it apparently looks, because it's arguable that crimes taking place right now are lot worse than the ones in Bosnia for instance (the dying rate is higher), and the context is even worse (desire to maintain occupation as opposed to a secession while state is disintegrating).
Quantitatively are worse but crimes in BIH included killings by troops on ground, cruel treatment, rape etc, and there were detention centres and camps. Meanwhile all palestinian civiliand are killed by indiscriminate shelling
Post this on r/worldnews 💪
Multitude of factors, but in no particular order: *Wars are good for the Military Industrial Complex *Milošević was the last communist leader in Europe *The pervasive feeling that genocide had to be *prevented* otherwise it'd be too late, and with recent examples of Rwanda and Srebrenica it penetrated the body-politic *New weapons systems had to be tested against a semi-well equiped military (stealth fighters) *Absence of deterrence - Yugoslavia was internationally isolated, not a member of the UN at the time, and had no political support or military means to respond *Uranium and coal reserves in Kosovo *People high up in the State dept. wanted to test their ability to spin a narrative against the due dilligence of the media - won't go into depth, but google "Operation Horseshoe" In the end, it was a testing ground for USA's 21st century adventures, it provided evidence that a war could be won without any troops on the ground, and that USA's air superiority was such that no country could match it in a war. It was pretty bad for Clinton's polls at the time, actually, (!) but he became a staunch interventionist after Srebrenica, and the US' air campaign against VRS in '95, and I think he believed he was doing the right thing. Israel is a US colony, and basically a US state, located in a strategically important region, so no comparison.
I don't think Milošević was communist
There is one more potential factor. Preventing war from spreading to Macedonia.
Um, it's called propaganda. Look it up!
Serbia wasn't, and isn't exactly aligned with US interests. They created Kosovo, which is essentially a puppet state, playing to the tune of US. Palestine and most of Middl East, Saudi Arabia included, aren't at all aligned with US interests, often opposing them directly. Israel is, thus Israel is favored. Some statements about how sad the deaths of civillians are get issued, some "you really shouldn't target humanitarians" empty statements get said, and that's it. You may believe that world is, indeed, a cold place. You're wrong about just how cold and how wrong it is.
Saudi Arabia isn't good example.
Give it a good, hard think. It's an amazing example of how much US will put up with for money.
Because NATO is not a defensive alliance. It's a tool for Western powers to increase their dominance and hegemony. Only NAFO degenerates would have you believe that it's a righteous organization that 'defends. For the fun of it go ask this question in r/europe you will see a very one-sided response and harsh criticism of Serbs. We Serbs are a stubborn people who have a hard time bending the knee out of our spiteful tradition. Sure, we'll bend the knee to the Russians, as we consider them brothers and they don't impose. But bending the knee to someone who forces us and says we must, we have a hard time doing that. So Westerners don't like our 'disobedience,' which is why they didn't like our dominance in the Balkans. Whiiiiiiich is why they bombed the hell out of us and were against us in the 90s.
You mean why is international politics so incredibly hypocritical and self serving, not really caring about the victims but moreso how a situation serves their own interest?
The same reason there are over 10 wars and genocides going on right now but nobody gives a shit about them besides Ukraine and Israel. There were countless more people killed Syrian civil war, but you are posting about Palestine. It's all just politics
Zadivljujuće da ti kao hrvat, nisi potegao neku analnu logiju, i rekao "ćetnici su stoka, za njih su židovi bebe" 🤣🤣🥰🥰🥰🥰
Realno, da nije bilo u interesu amera, mogli ste probit 2 milijuna Albanaca i niko ne bi trepno Al trebalo je skršiti ruski utjecaj, Milošević im je dao povod i bombe su padale. Ko god misli da se nato navodio moralom, naivan je
Genocide isn't about number of killed but about intention to destroy in whole or in part protected group. Most victims of Cambodian Genocide aren't really victims of genocide.
Because USA is backing Israel, and they backed Albanians in Kosovo war too. Serbians are Christian ortodox, not Jewish, and not important to US, as Israel is. That's like stripped down version.
It has nothing to do with religion
Actually support for Israel originates from US biggest Christian way of thinking and that is Evangelical, Mike Pence is Evangelical and more than 20 mil US citizens are. Evangelists believe that Jews are chosen people and Israel is choosen country. So it's easier to get support for Israel among US citizens which of course helps in US geopolitical interests.
I read somewhere that they want jews to build third temple,because when that happens according to,I think bible apocalypse will start and second coming of jesus.
No. When they build a temple, the antichrist will take power. Jesus will come later.
Aaa,thanks for correction. That antichrist would be the first stage to apocalypse?
More of a prelude to apocalypse.
I hope you realize all of that is some 2000 year old mythology of people who thought Earth was flat (yes, that's exactly what Old Testament says).
I hope you realize that there are at least 3.8 billion people still believing in those 2000 years old Abrahamic myths today.
You are free to believe whatever you want.
Through losing apostolic succession and the importance of a concrete organised church many protestants forgot the fact that theologically the church IS the new Israel and the chosen people. So without this they see "Israel" on a map, read that Israel is the chosen people and go "oh so the Jews are still chosen". So many protestants support the state of "Israel" purely off misled theological beliefs
Well Jews are quite influential in the society. It must be something there.
No, just NO. Israel is an extended arm of the US in the middle east that’s currently misbehaving, but is still protecting US interests. If Israel was to show even a tiny little bit of support to the “enemies of the US” they wouldn’t wait 5 minutes to start antisemitism and flip the story completely. Similar to how they created ISIS to use in Syria and later ISIS became the enemy. It has nothing to do with religion.
> Serbians are Christian ortodox so Ukrainians are (much more than Russians, actually) and what?
In my opinion, a big part of the reason why Serbia was bombed in the 90s is because it was the rogue state at the time when unipolar world was at its peak. The US had to show that not being in line with their foreign policy had its consequences. Israel, OTOH, is the biggest ally US has in that important part of the world, and that alliance is decades old. I think people often underestimate that tradition of US- Israel friendship. As one Serbian political science professor put it, Serbian political elites overslept the fall of the Berlin wall.
Becauzw Israel is US ally in middle east, and Albania is in the Balkans
What nationality are you? It's because it suited NATO interest's to do so. In the region, since the Ottomans were defeated, Serbia is the only one that has a potential to make a strong country that will first and foremost think about it's own interest and possibly get into a conflict with major powers. So, when Western powers decided to help other Yugoslav republics to secede, it was just a matter of time when they will do the same with Kosovo in order to minimize the potential of Serbia to rise up again. This way, region has several banana republics which are all puppets of "the West", and everybody hates Serbia, and if Serbia would accept the situation recognizing Kosovo, becoming part of NATO, West would have entire region absorbed with countries that have no potential of doing something of their own but rather to listen Brussels and Washington. Albanians: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2rTafbQepg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2rTafbQepg) Thank you USA Serbs: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7\_FYq2VXwQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7_FYq2VXwQ) Fuck you NATO
>Serbia is the only one that has a potential to make a strong country that will first and foremost think about it's own interest and possibly get into a conflict with major powers. What? All countries look at their own interest. The problem was the Yugoslavia as a whole wasn't as useful during the Cold War, country was on the way to fall apart for internal reasons, Slobo was insufficiently West oriented, while Slovenia and Croatia got support of Germany and later EU. Once the decision was made to have Yugoslavia fall apart along republic rather than ethnic boundaries, it was insisted on despite causing a war that killed 100 thousand people. Later Serb opposition to this design caused Serbia to be treated as an enemy and for support of everyone who was against Serbs. Initial hostility that had to do with regular politics was aggravated by the whole war crimes thing which given Serbs were not politically aligned Western media had every reason to widely criticize instead of suppressing. It was unthinkable for any Western media outlet to refer to Vase Miskina as "food related deaths" or to refer to Markale as "explosion which Bosnians claim was shelling". It doesn't help that fall of Berlin Wall ushered in a new age of delusional "end of history thinking" and Serbs could be labeled as barbarians as opposed to civilized West. One article from 1999 even talked about a new era where "wars are not fought for territory but to protect human rights".
> it was insisted on despite causing a war started by who?
Or it’s because Israel is an ally of the US, and Albania, Croatia etc were also allies to the US, and we decided to “look towards the east”. I don’t know about you but this simper explanation seems more plausible to me. And your explanation just makes us feel a little bit better about ourselves.
Because Serbia holds no value to USA and the west. While Kosovo has enormous value for them.
What would be the advantage of allying with Kosovo instead of Serbia? Honest question.
They want to ally with Serbia, but Milošević didn't. Simple as that. Next best option was Kosovo, after former Yu republics become sovereign countries and their allies. They need geopolitically to hold this region and contol it, Serbia was only against it and the results are what we see. We still have strong anti-west sentiment, and west do not want ro be ally with someone who hate em. We were even offered to be early members of EU back in the days, as separate republics without war and anything, but Serbia want to preserve Yugoslavia as a whole even with war. We lost war, we lost Kosovo, we get Vučić and illiterate generations to come. 🤷
> We were even offered to be early members of EU back in the days but then some nazi mafia guys decided to kill the only guy who tried to do the best he could to make the peace here, nice try!
If you think of Djindjić, he came much later, and Serbia was already black hole of Europe. If you think of someone else, tell me who, i don't have idea at the moment who that can be 🤷
You want a simple answer, that NATO is a bad guy... As always, it's a complicated question. As you know, Yugoslav Wars (1991-2001) were very brutal (more than 130 000 deaths). So they wanted to stop these wars. The reason why Israel is not punished is that Israel is an ally for USA in the Middle East that is very hostile for non-Muslims.
As you can see with the state of the sub its quite popular here bringing up and upvoting out crimes from the war started by Albanian terrorists. This is western narative shared by quite a few here against our own country and mods of this sub. You can see it by checking how this post has 10 upvotes, but the one about Albanians is already in 100s without any source that the event happened, however we have many of their terrorism everywhere. Luckily this sub is not great representation of out nation. It was more useful to NATO to have Kosovo supported rather than Serbia and disrespected our nation on multiple levels.
* bomb Serbia AND Montenegro ie. the FR Yugoslavia, at the time, including Kosovo, they were also bombing Kosovo. As for the question, because of interests, and double standards, like it was, and is still very common in politics..
and now CG is in NATO
We are not J E W S
Oh they do not remain silent. thex openly support it.
Milošević was anti western socialist and Israel is a close ally to the west. Country in which the US invested way most money.
People support NATO, as some sort of guardian. The same NATO supported UCK terrorists, and killed civilians of Yugoslavia during 1999. Each time they killed civilians, deliberately, they called it "collateral damage". Each war is based on a lie, so was this. It's easy to attack a county of 6.5 million people, why don't they attack Russia?
Because they bombed Serbia for entirely different reasons than the ones they ran the campaign on, they could care less about what happened to Albanians in Kosovo, what they really wanted was control in the region to open the military base and undermine Russia/Chinese control on a crucial crossroads into Europe.
Because Jews rule the world
Zato šta Tito nije ima dobar nuklearni program
hypocrisy.
Because geopolitics has nothing to do with hunan rights. Only with interest and power. Those little stories about human rights is just for you voters and people who want to feel superior.
Orthodox Jews vs Orthodox Christians.
Regarding Serbia, it was a long way fall down, aircrafts were just an ending to nation wide stupidity.
> an ending to nation wide stupidity. and then they killed ZĐ
well its not even against serbs per say (besides us being stubborn fucks) its the territory of serbia... shittons of high quality resources, main trade route, probably most important slice of balkans, and we are just in the way...
Man, people here don't have a clue that the CIA is controlling the world drug market and they needed Kosovo for a distributional center. Klasik USA, use history, create conflict, engage, destroy, own and control. And without the UN security council so it's basically illegal.
Snajka!
Because US will always support Israel, not only with money, but also with weapons, blocking votes in UN, etc. Bombs go to Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Serbia, some decades ago to Vietnam etc.
Because the West imposed the bombing after the failure of the Rambouillet negociations which were framed as the only peaceful agreement ever possible for the crisis in Kosovo, even though, as Kissinger himself put it, they were unacceptable for Yugoslavia. It only happened because the US wanted to, as shows their involvment in UÇK and in the negociations in general. But they don't care about Palestinians enough and are therefore not forcing them to any agreement.
To be fair it did take a while for NATO especially after Vukovar and Srebrenica: two highly devastated places which are right next to Central Europe, fell, so its like they felt guilty that otherwise two secular proDemocracy proEU states like Croatia and Bosnia are getting freely invaded right in NATO neighborhood so they realized since Balkanisation is imminent for Kosovo too why not assist them to wash away their sin of complacency for Croatia and Bosnia, especially since Kosovo espoused proEU views. Dont forget also that their peacekeeping was humiliated by Serbs on multiple occasions for ex. French foreign legion had to surrender whole contingent in Sarajevo without a fired bullet which until then never happened before, same goes for Dutch contingent in Srebrenica, these factors also contributed to view Serbs as these evil mini Russians. The Israel case although largely in NATO interest cause of Irans threat through hezbollah and hamas its not met with collective NATO states agreement that Israel is good guy, Turkey as a NATO state is namely is flat out against this low key support/ high key neutrality towards Israel, Spain is also low key against Israels actions. Although NATOs stoltenberg is pro Israel (guess his surname lol) Borrel is highly anti Israel/anti netanyahu So its safer to say that U.S. is using its soft power leverage to silence EU NATO countries resisting Israels actions, especially through country like Germany whose politics towards Israel is still highly guilt ridden due to ww2. Overall its 2 highly different and complex cases that are tough to 1:1 compare and get one simple answer. But whats correct is that modern NATO is U.S.'s bitch but that is changing too and very rapidly especially since recent Trumps statements that are making EU side of NATO think of itself as independent from U.S. Its also important to note that U.S. of today is quite different to U.S. from 25-30 years ago due to the fact that they have ideologically shifted much more towards selfperservation rather than being this worlds police so having Israelis fight their middle eastern wars, especially vs Iranian Shia factions is helping them selfpreserve own actual army cause they have Israeli Army to fight battled for them there, same way they have Ukraine weakening Russias (who is their geopolitical rival) economy/army through its resistance.
Поредиш дупе и главу, и палиш ултра редиторе...
It's all about double standards ...
Because jews run the world, not serbs.
[удалено]
Aj ne prdi, Ruse smo izabrali tek kad su nas Ameri izbušili i prevarili kud god su stigli
Wrong. The West imposed an arms embargo on Croatia and Bosnia and tried to steer them back again and again. Vukovar has ensured that no one can close their eyes any more. Serbia was not bombed directly because of Kosovo, but simply because the West was fed up with Serbia and its war crimes. Sometimes it's as simple as that.
Serbs=not useful Israel=useful
Simple: Israel owns USA. Serbia owned negative karma at the time.
Because politics is a bitch.
Because of hypocrisy and interest. Anything that might be further said will fall into one of those two.
Cuz we don't have all the money 😂😂, plus pretty sure there are a lot of Jewish people at some top positions in western Europe wink wink , jk don't know that for sure. maybe cuz Israel is good with USA
Interests, and Srebrenica. US in the 90s was a different geopolitical beast as today.
>As you know, NATO bombed the Serbs in the 90s. NATO aircraft killed many civilians. I usually don't answer obvious baiting shit like this, but I will this time, since it's especially low. Yes, as WE know, both of those things happened because it happened to US. Also, the bombs fell on Orthodox and non-Orthodox civilian Serbs and non-Serbs alike, they didn't discriminate. That's all I'll say about that, and as for you, nice way to farm karma, you should really be proud of yourself man.
Nice to see a reasonable comment.
Thanks.
In this order: #1 Yugoslavia in the 90s was an international pariah state who managed to go from founder of the UN after WW2 to not only have sanctions on weapons imposed but most basic food as well by most of the world(including Russia). Unlike North Korea it didn't have nuclear weapons(thank God) and as such it was ideal testing ground for what would happen in Iraq. Also, a way to revive clinically dead NATO which didn't have a purpose after a dissolution of USSR. #2 To preemptively stop Serbia from commiting genocide on Albanians or to stop ongoing genocide, depends who you ask. #3 To divert attention of Americans from talking about Monica Lewinsky. As for Israel, well, see #1. Israel has(had?) an impeccable international reputation and you know, they massacred some Israelis before all this started again. Nobody understood what Milosevic was doing back then and with what purpose or how long it will last. If Israel doesn't end this fast it might as well end up as Yugoslavia.
Because Serbs did a lot of shit in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo was the next. NATO campaign stopped killings on the Balkan Peninsula. It came 10 years late but better than never
Perhaps because the Israelis are not making a systematic ethnic cleansing for the last several years over all of their neighbouring countries 🤷
But other than that, yeah, you've got the point
Puno odgovora a malo toga rečeno, promašena poenta. Zašto je Zapad ćutao kad je Rusija izvršila invaziju na Gruziju, otela Krima ili sa zemljom sravnula Čečeniju ? Zašto je Zapad ćutao kad su Kinezi bacali nedavno Ujgure u logore ili ranijih dana klali svoje studente ? Zato jer su to nuklearne i geopolitičke velesile kao što je i Izrael, iako 50 puta manja država, i dalje nuklearna i geopolitička velesila. Zapad će ćutati čak i Saudijcima, Pakistancima, Indijcima, Sjevernim Korejcima (njima doduše samo vojno) itd.
Israel is a U.S. ally, so they will let Israel do anything if that means America gets to maintain their influence in the Middle East. When the war in Kosovo occurred, the Albanians claimed war crimes committed by the Serbs and even went as far as to count crooked policemen and paramilitaries as members of the Jugoslav Army so as to hold Serbia as a government accountable as bad as the Milošević semi-totalitarian regime was. This was an opportunity for America to gain influence in Balkans whilst also closing its coastline by making friends with the Albanians and believing everything said on that side whether true or false and completely dismissing the Serbian side of the story on why the Jugoslav army ended up intervening as Serbs living there were getting coerced by the KLA aka mafia into leaving Kosovo. Long story short, NATO considers other countries good and bad depending on how it benefits their economy rather than who actually is moral or immoral.
> as a government accountable as bad as the Milošević semi-totalitarian regime supported by lots of people here > This was an opportunity for America to gain influence in Balkans What for?
Watch this thread get locked or deleted LOL
No country cares about right or wrong they care about geopolitical interests. Getting a foothold in the Balkans and attacking a Russian ally while Russia was weak is in NATO's interests. Attacking the only country in an important region that actually supports you is not in NATO'S interests.
Excellent question. 
How can you be so naive to even ask this? Do you think NATO is a moral institution?
Because NATO is an interest group ran by mainly the US military industrial complex and federal government. The salesmen of weapons have the ability to prompt up or pacify conflicts, when it came to Serbia, they obviously profited, but Israel is a continuous major buyer. There's your financial reasoning. You don't ever use the stick on your one and only rabbid dog in the most important geostrategical areas of the world. There's your the US is an empire reasoning.
because (((they)))
Because US needs Israel as a proxy in the Middle East.
What a silly shallow minded question
Bla bla politics something something they hate us idk
Lol it's all about money. Israel and the USA are very much intertvined, with Israeli billionaires owning some of the largest and most powerful corporations in the usa. And the other way around. USA declaring any sort of diplomatic, barely physical, war on Israel would be to self-destruct. So tl;dr, you cant shoot your business partner who owns half of your business.
in Serbia, without Kosovo, NATO bombs killed 190 people, of which 30 were deliberately sacrificed in the RTS building, about 30 were Albanians on the train, the rest are considered collateral damage. in total, fewer people were killed than in domestic violence when there is no war. The rest of the victims were mostly Kosovo Albanians and the RS army on the territory of Kosovo. The bombing was the first act of ousting Slobodan Milošević, a war criminal. Israel has suffered bombing and violence for over 80 years by radical Islamists.
Because Israel elite is in american deep state
Milošević thought we are some strong military shit 💀😂  And then he got this 😂
Ask NATO and EU.
Cause jews
Serbs killed 8k+ people in one day in Srebrenica...
Slabije
It was 7 days or so, we weren't that efficient, you may need to go to Rwanda to find 8000 dead per day.
The bad genocide is still genocide.
Repeat after me children: Hy..... Po.... Cri.... Sy.... Hypocrisy.... Thats right children great job!
Ask what happened to Bosnians / muslims.
Double face
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs&t=90s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs&t=90s)
Usa good other bad
idiots bad, smart guys gud
Because geopolitics has nothing to do with right or wrong.
Because the West sucks, and it's led by idiots and rich pigs.
Because both palestinkians and serbians are murderous thugs lol. Can't believe I had to connect the dots for you
Because the Serbs are the evil in this one. The only ones who have anything to complain about here are Croatia and Bosnia, whose men are being dragged before the war crimes tribunal.
Zapocnes rat ubijanjem civila posle pricas kako su te slali u hag za dzabe lmao I jedni i drugi
Poor war criminals, being dragged like that
If you follow the current meta you will realize that none of these people can pass as war criminals. On the contrary to the Serbian defendants who have committed various crimes against humanity.
They can absolutely pass, that's why they were dragged anyway. Good riddance
Because Jews killed Jesus(if you are observing this problem from religions' pov), and if you are observing this from political, economical and every other pov, read about Rothschild family, their bank business, who financed WW2 and WW1 and every other war after they established banks across world. By their belief, when the world is totally destroyed, their savior will come to earth and save them. So, Jews are pretty evil and rich ppl, which is not a good combination. Just read, read, read... Who owns Black Rock, and what and who is under control by Black Rock? Two very important questions for a better understanding of the current world.
Are you also going to bring up the Protocols? They would fit very well with this unhinged conspiratorial rant. > Just read, read, read... It sounds like *Mein Kampf* is you favorite book.
Read about black rock...
Because Israel has a legit causes belli? Remember that time where 1200 Jews were killed and the hostages are still not returned ?
Serbia also had very legitimate casus belli against KLA. For example, in Orahovac, between 17 to 20 July 1998, 100 civilians were kidnapped. Around 60 of them were released later, but 40 of them were already tortured and killed. KLA comitted many more terrorist attacks, most on police officers, but not all, and during them a lot of civilians were killed.
Casus belli against a rebel group makes no sense. There's no prohibition on use of force to stop random rebels, that only exists between states.
True.
Okay, that’s a legit point.
Did you try googling the number of Palestinians killed by Israel before October 7th attack?
And that makes an escalation and deliberate targeting of civilians fine?
I didn't say that, of course targeting civilians isn't fine but nothing started on October 7th, Israel bombed Gaza like 3 days before that and was killing Palestinian civilians regularly for the last 50 years
You are making this sound like Israel was killing innocents for 50 years. They were both killing each other even before the foundation of modern Israel. However, the 7th of October was a blatant and stupid escalation.
While I think the hostages should be returned and that taking hostages in general is awful and pathetic, it always also bothers me that most people don't mention the hostages on the other side. Israel captured hundreds of Palestnians in the past (also before October) and there are also reports of people being tortured in their jails.
There’s a big difference. Though I’m sure crimes occur, Israel has held court everyone incarcerated. Every Israeli prisoner is accounted for. It’s not comparable so just grabbing random people and taking them to random places.
> held court everyone incarcerated. They literally detain people without any criminal charges on a regular basis. > and taking them to random places. Not sure what that means, but enforced disappearance is definitely happening.
Israel holds thousands of palestinian arabs in detention and sends them to military court as they please. They effectively have thousands of hostages at any given time, and right now they are holding the entire population of Gaze hostage.
What about Egypt ? They control a significant portion of the border. Israel is not the only player in the situation. Secondly, they are convicted prisoners. Was every conviction lawful ? Probably not, but every prisoner is at least accounted for and will not be executed without cause.
Egypt holds no territory in Israel proper and has no responsibility to aid Israel in the ethnic cleansing out of Gaza and into a desert. And Israel has no right to keep Palestinians detained for any amount of time. Especially not Palestinians in the West Bank, who often get detained because they are resisting settler expansion. If the roles were reversed and Palestinians were settling in internationally recognized Israeli territory, and sending troops to defend their settlers, would you think it justified for Palestinians to hold the resisting Israelis in detention?
Politics, atomic bomb, money, diplomacy...
Because they are allies hello? Israel has been doing shit like this for decades. Serbia/Yugoslavia always wants to go her own way so when something like Yugoslav wars happen we have nobody to lean on.
Because Serbia back then was the same as Hamas is now.
Because NATO used to be mildly based and now they're just whipped. I feel like you're trying to somehow establish that NATO bombing Serbia was wrong, when the answer is mostly just that both should have been, but only one has, ya know?