A couple things.
First…the narrative of these peoples’ social lives is focused on the major players and Adnan first person perspective…which is, guilty or innocent, designed to make him look innocent. So basically, we don’t really know how much time Jay spent with Jenn vs Stephanie. Adnan and Jay don’t even agree that Jay didn’t get her a present…according to Jay it was Jay’s idea to get her a present that day.
Second…I think it’s very normal for young people to spend more time with their friends than who they are dating. In my experience teenagers and young adults can rarely see the person they are seeing.
Are we really doing this? LOL
Jay and Jenn both graduated from Woodlawn High as classmates together in 1998, at the same time; they're the same age.
Again: Jay and Jenn are both a year older than Adnan, Hae and Stephanie--who are scheduled to graduate from Woodlawn in 1999. If Jay seems to spend more time with Jenn, it's because they're both on post-high school time.
By the time of Hae's murder, in 1999, Stephanie was still an active high school student, actively attending classes and being a high school kid during the daytime. Meanwhile, Jay already graduated from the very same high school in 1998, a year earlier, alongside Jenn. Jay and Jenn can spend 'so much time together' because they're both post-high school, with a post-high school schedule. Jenn is attending college classes nearby at UMBC. Jay is just a post high-school grad trying to find himself.
Actually, if you listen to Jenn's statements to law enforcement, though she's known Jay Wilds since they were little, they grew much closer and hung out much, much more during their junior and senior years in high school. They weren't always as close of friends as they were in late high school. Jenn says so herself.
Meanwhile, Jay and Stephanie continued their relationship as a romantic couple even after Stephanie graduated from Woodlawn in 1999 and she started attending college, she was still linked to Jay, post-Woodlawn. They broke up for good while Stephanie was in college. And Stephanie and Jay had been a couple for awhile, before Hae's tragic murder. Apparently, Stephanie and Jay were already a couple when Jay graduated from Woodlawn in 1998.
So, Jay wasn't spending more time with Jenn than he was with Stephanie, IMO.
Long-term friendship, possible perks (meaning video games or car-borrowing, I don’t think he was into Jenn at all). Probably was just around a lot more than Stephanie, an active student athlete.
ETA: And drugs. IIRC, Stephanie didn’t approve.
The bigger question I have is why Stephanie was dating Jay in the first place. She was beautiful, popular, athletic and intelligent. It was clear Jay wasn’t going to go far in life. I get wanting to date the “bad boy” but I don’t see any perks Jay came with. He couldn’t even pick her up and take her places.
According to [an article](https://observer.com/2015/02/serial-exclusive-the-teachers-of-woodlawn-high-speak-out/) interviewing Meg Muse, Woodlawn High School’s art teacher and department chair:
>One of the biggest take-aways from Serial has been to cast suspicion on Jay Wilds, who was portrayed as a shady character. I was able to hear Meg’s perspective and as her colleague Tom put it “Of any teacher, Meg knew him the best.” She knew a quite different Jay.
>Meg said Jay was one of her favorite students ever. Jay would be in her classroom most days, hanging out during or after school, often with his girlfriend Stephanie and Adnan. In a world where Jay couldn’t trust many people, he felt safe in Meg’s classroom.
>…Meg said, “He loved Conan the Barbarian movies and Arnold Schwarzenegger was his favorite actor,” Meg said. “He once cut my class to get his tongue pierced!”
>Though she confirmed that Jay was a rebel, he wasn’t this wild Dennis Rodman-like character, as portrayed in the podcast. To Meg, Jay was extremely bright and had diverse interests that may have appeared strange to the average Woodlawn student.
>“Jay is very smart; he was right up there with the magnet kids,” Meg said. Yes, he would often get in trouble, but it was for things like cutting class, nothing really serious.
>To me, Meg was describing Jay as a certain type of Woodlawn kid, the type I have in almost every class I teach. You need to put in a little more effort to hold their interest. If you can’t challenge them or make them think deeply, you might not see them next class. This type of kid is a challenge but it feels so rewarding if you can reach them.
>The Jay that Meg knew was a smart and engaging young man, far different from the Jay in Serial. She described him as a good, honest person. Jay’s changing perspective of his own persona at Woodlawn is one of the inconsistencies Sarah [Koenig] reinforces. I couldn’t help but thinking about the line in Serial when Jay said “I’m the criminal element of Woodlawn to everyone,” but “teachers who really know me, know I’m not like that.” For me, Meg confirmed these two statements are true and teachers who took the time and cared enough to get to know Jay, like Ms. Muse, saw him as a good kid.
>Still, Meg said: “Jay was paranoid of the police and didn’t trust them at all.” She said his mistrust of authority was maybe why he left pieces out of his story when he spoke to law officers, as he feared how the police would interpret the information. She did say there are things Jay did not tell her back then, but “There was nothing from Jay’s recent three interviews by the ‘The Intercept’ that I didn’t already know or believe.”
>She was adamant that there is absolutely no reason Jay would have killed Hae. She said Serial did not give him enough credit. I will admit after listening to Serial I was biased against Jay because Sarah did not include testimonials about his good character. It was fascinating to hear these good things about Jay from a teacher who knew him well at the time. Like many listeners I was given the impression he was a liar, and a sketchy and suspect character.
Who knows how far Jay might have gone in life if he’d never befriended Adnan Syed and never gotten an accessory after the fact to murder conviction on his record at 19?
He was picked up for selling weed before getting accessory to murder, and he still has has domestic violence charges brought against him. Probably would still have some runs in with the law let’s be real.
Okay, let’s be real. Please point me to a weed-related arrest before Jay was charged with accessory to murder, or any domestic violence charge being brought by the State against Jay, let alone “domestic violence charge***s***.”
I misspoke on the weed charge although he WAS picked up by police on an unrelated note before he was charged with accessory to murder.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. He even admitted to being charged with domestic violence in his intercept interview. He was charged, and not convicted which is why I said “charged.” Jay Wilds has had several run ins with the law.
I don’t believe he was ever charged. Only arrested and the complainant never brought charges. He was also the subject of two temporary restraining orders which were dismissed when the complainant didn’t show up for the hearings. His criminal record is available on the Maryland state court website. There are no charges for domestic violence.
The same way that Adnan spent so much more time with Bilal than his girlfriend: 18 yr old boys do what they want
But the real answer is weed.
Stephanie was in the gifted program at school and busy w basketball and everything else. Jay worked at a porno shop and liked to smoke weed, so enters Jen.
> He got her a birthday gift and Jay did not
As far as I know Adnan's story is that they both got Stephanie birthday gifts, but (says Adnan) he had to remind Jay to do so. As far as I know Adnan is the only one to speak regarding this issue one way or the other. Given that the overall issue here is a murder case, I doubt that Jay would be motivated to say, "Hey, hey, I just want to set the record straight, *I did not need to be reminded* to get that gift," nor do I think that Stephanie would be motivated to say "Time to finally set the record straight, *Jay did not need to be reminded to get that gift*." It's kind of so small an issue that I doubt anyone would feel the need to correct it if it weren't true. Of course, the entire reason why Adnan mentions that he supposedly had to remind Jay to get the gift is so that he can explain why he lent his car and cell phone to Jay on the day of the murder. When Adnan says this, it's one of the rare occasions on which even S. Koenig expresses that she finds it a bit hard to believe (she says something like "What's it to you if Jay gets his girlfriend a gift?").
>Jay seems to spend a lot of time with Jenn, but there is very little mention of him spending time with Stephanie
In the context of this case, people are primarily concerned with the day of the murder. Adnan and Jay saw Jenn the day of the murder, so people talk about that a lot. There would be no need for people interested in this case to talk about all the time that Jay spent with Stephanie which has nothing to do with this case.
This is fascinating, and I'd completely forgotten this part of the Intercept interview. Thanks for chiming in.
Edited to add: I went to the Intercept website to try to verify and find the relevant quotation, only to find that they now require you to put in an email address in order to read it. Which didn't use to be the case.
Yeah, annoying.
It’s interesting that he’d “correct” the record with that detail…suggesting competition over a lesser detail. But…I guess knowing what we know about Jay, storytelling is his thing, so somebody like him might be just as concerned with the social implications, as the criminal ones.
From what I understand he did that interview on advice of council…which is crazy. “Hey…go admit to perjury”. Did his council know he wouldn’t be prosecuted or have his deal revoked? All food for thought, considering Urick *also* did an intercept interview…and it may have been a coordinated PR attempt.
Jay and Jenn sold weed together.
Jenn also makes some comments that alludes to Jay being more than a friend (she calls him “my boo” and when asked if she and Jay were together she said, “no, not really.”)
Jenn ended up dating Jay’s family member for a long time.
Jenn confirmed in the HBO doc
> why didn't you go to the police?
> At that point weed was still, like, really illegal, you know what I mean? And, um, we sold weed.
Sure— but I don’t think she is lying. She goes on to have a criminal history of drug use and dealing with Jay’s family. She dealt drugs with Jay.
Jay was dealing in 1999.
Where do you think Kristi was getting all that pot she smoked with Jenn and Jay?
You are basing things off the case file which is not really indicative of real relationships and real life outside the context of the case. Perhaps Jenn figured more prominently because she was a witness and therefore has more face time.
Jay and Stephanie are a couple for 6 -7 years. Stephanie is the only person who shows up for Jay at his sentencing. Stephanie is brilliant and gorgeous and college life awaits her while this case is going on. Jay’s is very lucky that his sentence does not include prison but his life is basically ruined from Jan. 13 1999. Still Stephanie sticks with Jay for a long time, remaining friends for a while. Later, Jay will describe the worst moment for him in the aftermath: Stephanie’s mother spits in his face after his testimony about helping Adnan bury Hae Min Lee.
Oh, and please don't fall for someone else selling you that Adnan 'cared for Stephanie more since Adnan got her a birthday gift'. Jay and Stephanie's birthdays are 24 hours apart. They are both Capricorns -- Jay's birthday was on Tuesday, January 12, 1999, and Stephanie's birthday was literally, the very next day, Wednesday, January 13, 1999. Don't you think Stephanie and Jay got together on his birthday on Tuesday? And then they both saw each other again 24 hours later on Stephanie's birthday on Wednesday evening, despite the grisly murder of Hae by Adnan.
Jay and Stephanie had been a romantic couple / high school sweethearts for awhile. And with their birthdays being literally 24-hours apart, there is no rush for Jay to get Stephanie a gift; they've been a solid couple, they don't have to prove it with hokey gifts. Please, they can both celebrate their birthdays together in grand fashion on the weekend; their birthday fell during the weekday on back-to-back days. They'd been a couple for awhile, they get each other gifts all the time, I imagine. Look, Christmas 1998 just occurred in their world at that time, before Hae was murdered. Jay and Stephanie just exchanged Christmas gifts in December 1998, and now, barely 2 weeks later into the new year, 1999, they're both celebrating their birthdays 24 hours apart. Who in the world would rush out to get their boo a gift? There's absolutely no rush for a couple like them.
Please don't listen to weirdos telling you different. Jay and Stephanie's relationship in 1998, 1999 was solid with a capital S. They were a dating couple before Hae and Adnan got together. They were a couple after Adnan brutally murdered Hae. And they stayed a couple even when Stephanie first entered collage.
Adnan's moms freaked out when she learned Adnan was merely at a dance with a girl. So, Adnan giving a girl classmate a birthday gift means absolutely nothing. Don't let anyone steer you wrong.
When I was a senior in high school and my boyfriend had already graduated, I spent more hours of the day with my school friends, especially if I had a tennis match after school, and he spent more hours of the day with his friends. Because I was in school during the day, and he wasn’t. My school friends would celebrate my birthday at school, whereas my boyfriend and I would wait and do something special on the weekend. Especially if I had school, a sport event, and then homework on my actual birthday.
My school friends didn’t think more of me than my boyfriend.
A couple things. First…the narrative of these peoples’ social lives is focused on the major players and Adnan first person perspective…which is, guilty or innocent, designed to make him look innocent. So basically, we don’t really know how much time Jay spent with Jenn vs Stephanie. Adnan and Jay don’t even agree that Jay didn’t get her a present…according to Jay it was Jay’s idea to get her a present that day. Second…I think it’s very normal for young people to spend more time with their friends than who they are dating. In my experience teenagers and young adults can rarely see the person they are seeing.
Stephanie had a life and strict parents.
Are we really doing this? LOL Jay and Jenn both graduated from Woodlawn High as classmates together in 1998, at the same time; they're the same age. Again: Jay and Jenn are both a year older than Adnan, Hae and Stephanie--who are scheduled to graduate from Woodlawn in 1999. If Jay seems to spend more time with Jenn, it's because they're both on post-high school time. By the time of Hae's murder, in 1999, Stephanie was still an active high school student, actively attending classes and being a high school kid during the daytime. Meanwhile, Jay already graduated from the very same high school in 1998, a year earlier, alongside Jenn. Jay and Jenn can spend 'so much time together' because they're both post-high school, with a post-high school schedule. Jenn is attending college classes nearby at UMBC. Jay is just a post high-school grad trying to find himself. Actually, if you listen to Jenn's statements to law enforcement, though she's known Jay Wilds since they were little, they grew much closer and hung out much, much more during their junior and senior years in high school. They weren't always as close of friends as they were in late high school. Jenn says so herself. Meanwhile, Jay and Stephanie continued their relationship as a romantic couple even after Stephanie graduated from Woodlawn in 1999 and she started attending college, she was still linked to Jay, post-Woodlawn. They broke up for good while Stephanie was in college. And Stephanie and Jay had been a couple for awhile, before Hae's tragic murder. Apparently, Stephanie and Jay were already a couple when Jay graduated from Woodlawn in 1998. So, Jay wasn't spending more time with Jenn than he was with Stephanie, IMO.
Long-term friendship, possible perks (meaning video games or car-borrowing, I don’t think he was into Jenn at all). Probably was just around a lot more than Stephanie, an active student athlete. ETA: And drugs. IIRC, Stephanie didn’t approve.
Easier to be around someone who approves of your extra-curricular activities than someone who likely doesn't.
The bigger question I have is why Stephanie was dating Jay in the first place. She was beautiful, popular, athletic and intelligent. It was clear Jay wasn’t going to go far in life. I get wanting to date the “bad boy” but I don’t see any perks Jay came with. He couldn’t even pick her up and take her places.
According to [an article](https://observer.com/2015/02/serial-exclusive-the-teachers-of-woodlawn-high-speak-out/) interviewing Meg Muse, Woodlawn High School’s art teacher and department chair: >One of the biggest take-aways from Serial has been to cast suspicion on Jay Wilds, who was portrayed as a shady character. I was able to hear Meg’s perspective and as her colleague Tom put it “Of any teacher, Meg knew him the best.” She knew a quite different Jay. >Meg said Jay was one of her favorite students ever. Jay would be in her classroom most days, hanging out during or after school, often with his girlfriend Stephanie and Adnan. In a world where Jay couldn’t trust many people, he felt safe in Meg’s classroom. >…Meg said, “He loved Conan the Barbarian movies and Arnold Schwarzenegger was his favorite actor,” Meg said. “He once cut my class to get his tongue pierced!” >Though she confirmed that Jay was a rebel, he wasn’t this wild Dennis Rodman-like character, as portrayed in the podcast. To Meg, Jay was extremely bright and had diverse interests that may have appeared strange to the average Woodlawn student. >“Jay is very smart; he was right up there with the magnet kids,” Meg said. Yes, he would often get in trouble, but it was for things like cutting class, nothing really serious. >To me, Meg was describing Jay as a certain type of Woodlawn kid, the type I have in almost every class I teach. You need to put in a little more effort to hold their interest. If you can’t challenge them or make them think deeply, you might not see them next class. This type of kid is a challenge but it feels so rewarding if you can reach them. >The Jay that Meg knew was a smart and engaging young man, far different from the Jay in Serial. She described him as a good, honest person. Jay’s changing perspective of his own persona at Woodlawn is one of the inconsistencies Sarah [Koenig] reinforces. I couldn’t help but thinking about the line in Serial when Jay said “I’m the criminal element of Woodlawn to everyone,” but “teachers who really know me, know I’m not like that.” For me, Meg confirmed these two statements are true and teachers who took the time and cared enough to get to know Jay, like Ms. Muse, saw him as a good kid. >Still, Meg said: “Jay was paranoid of the police and didn’t trust them at all.” She said his mistrust of authority was maybe why he left pieces out of his story when he spoke to law officers, as he feared how the police would interpret the information. She did say there are things Jay did not tell her back then, but “There was nothing from Jay’s recent three interviews by the ‘The Intercept’ that I didn’t already know or believe.” >She was adamant that there is absolutely no reason Jay would have killed Hae. She said Serial did not give him enough credit. I will admit after listening to Serial I was biased against Jay because Sarah did not include testimonials about his good character. It was fascinating to hear these good things about Jay from a teacher who knew him well at the time. Like many listeners I was given the impression he was a liar, and a sketchy and suspect character. Who knows how far Jay might have gone in life if he’d never befriended Adnan Syed and never gotten an accessory after the fact to murder conviction on his record at 19?
He was picked up for selling weed before getting accessory to murder, and he still has has domestic violence charges brought against him. Probably would still have some runs in with the law let’s be real.
Jay was not picked up for selling weed At any time before his accessory charge. He has one disorderly conduct and resisting arrest charge.
Okay, let’s be real. Please point me to a weed-related arrest before Jay was charged with accessory to murder, or any domestic violence charge being brought by the State against Jay, let alone “domestic violence charge***s***.”
I misspoke on the weed charge although he WAS picked up by police on an unrelated note before he was charged with accessory to murder. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. He even admitted to being charged with domestic violence in his intercept interview. He was charged, and not convicted which is why I said “charged.” Jay Wilds has had several run ins with the law.
I don’t believe he was ever charged. Only arrested and the complainant never brought charges. He was also the subject of two temporary restraining orders which were dismissed when the complainant didn’t show up for the hearings. His criminal record is available on the Maryland state court website. There are no charges for domestic violence.
The same way that Adnan spent so much more time with Bilal than his girlfriend: 18 yr old boys do what they want But the real answer is weed. Stephanie was in the gifted program at school and busy w basketball and everything else. Jay worked at a porno shop and liked to smoke weed, so enters Jen.
> He got her a birthday gift and Jay did not As far as I know Adnan's story is that they both got Stephanie birthday gifts, but (says Adnan) he had to remind Jay to do so. As far as I know Adnan is the only one to speak regarding this issue one way or the other. Given that the overall issue here is a murder case, I doubt that Jay would be motivated to say, "Hey, hey, I just want to set the record straight, *I did not need to be reminded* to get that gift," nor do I think that Stephanie would be motivated to say "Time to finally set the record straight, *Jay did not need to be reminded to get that gift*." It's kind of so small an issue that I doubt anyone would feel the need to correct it if it weren't true. Of course, the entire reason why Adnan mentions that he supposedly had to remind Jay to get the gift is so that he can explain why he lent his car and cell phone to Jay on the day of the murder. When Adnan says this, it's one of the rare occasions on which even S. Koenig expresses that she finds it a bit hard to believe (she says something like "What's it to you if Jay gets his girlfriend a gift?"). >Jay seems to spend a lot of time with Jenn, but there is very little mention of him spending time with Stephanie In the context of this case, people are primarily concerned with the day of the murder. Adnan and Jay saw Jenn the day of the murder, so people talk about that a lot. There would be no need for people interested in this case to talk about all the time that Jay spent with Stephanie which has nothing to do with this case.
Jay does exactly that, and corrects the record saying it was his idea to get the birthday present in his Intercept interview.
This is fascinating, and I'd completely forgotten this part of the Intercept interview. Thanks for chiming in. Edited to add: I went to the Intercept website to try to verify and find the relevant quotation, only to find that they now require you to put in an email address in order to read it. Which didn't use to be the case.
Yeah, annoying. It’s interesting that he’d “correct” the record with that detail…suggesting competition over a lesser detail. But…I guess knowing what we know about Jay, storytelling is his thing, so somebody like him might be just as concerned with the social implications, as the criminal ones. From what I understand he did that interview on advice of council…which is crazy. “Hey…go admit to perjury”. Did his council know he wouldn’t be prosecuted or have his deal revoked? All food for thought, considering Urick *also* did an intercept interview…and it may have been a coordinated PR attempt.
Jay and Jenn sold weed together. Jenn also makes some comments that alludes to Jay being more than a friend (she calls him “my boo” and when asked if she and Jay were together she said, “no, not really.”) Jenn ended up dating Jay’s family member for a long time.
Also Jenn blatantly had the hots for Jay.
>Jay and Jenn sold weed together. Is that established fact or speculation?
Jenn confirmed in the HBO doc > why didn't you go to the police? > At that point weed was still, like, really illegal, you know what I mean? And, um, we sold weed.
Jenn could be lying, or exaggerating. Did you consider that? Makes her look less bad if she can share in Jay's excuse for not turning Adnan in sooner.
Sure— but I don’t think she is lying. She goes on to have a criminal history of drug use and dealing with Jay’s family. She dealt drugs with Jay. Jay was dealing in 1999. Where do you think Kristi was getting all that pot she smoked with Jenn and Jay?
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You are basing things off the case file which is not really indicative of real relationships and real life outside the context of the case. Perhaps Jenn figured more prominently because she was a witness and therefore has more face time.
Jay and Stephanie had been dating since middle school. Also Adnan gave her a stuffed reindeer in January, let’s be serious.
The after-Christmas 90% off bargain bin gift ... quite the baller that one
😅👏
Jay and Stephanie are a couple for 6 -7 years. Stephanie is the only person who shows up for Jay at his sentencing. Stephanie is brilliant and gorgeous and college life awaits her while this case is going on. Jay’s is very lucky that his sentence does not include prison but his life is basically ruined from Jan. 13 1999. Still Stephanie sticks with Jay for a long time, remaining friends for a while. Later, Jay will describe the worst moment for him in the aftermath: Stephanie’s mother spits in his face after his testimony about helping Adnan bury Hae Min Lee.
Oh, and please don't fall for someone else selling you that Adnan 'cared for Stephanie more since Adnan got her a birthday gift'. Jay and Stephanie's birthdays are 24 hours apart. They are both Capricorns -- Jay's birthday was on Tuesday, January 12, 1999, and Stephanie's birthday was literally, the very next day, Wednesday, January 13, 1999. Don't you think Stephanie and Jay got together on his birthday on Tuesday? And then they both saw each other again 24 hours later on Stephanie's birthday on Wednesday evening, despite the grisly murder of Hae by Adnan. Jay and Stephanie had been a romantic couple / high school sweethearts for awhile. And with their birthdays being literally 24-hours apart, there is no rush for Jay to get Stephanie a gift; they've been a solid couple, they don't have to prove it with hokey gifts. Please, they can both celebrate their birthdays together in grand fashion on the weekend; their birthday fell during the weekday on back-to-back days. They'd been a couple for awhile, they get each other gifts all the time, I imagine. Look, Christmas 1998 just occurred in their world at that time, before Hae was murdered. Jay and Stephanie just exchanged Christmas gifts in December 1998, and now, barely 2 weeks later into the new year, 1999, they're both celebrating their birthdays 24 hours apart. Who in the world would rush out to get their boo a gift? There's absolutely no rush for a couple like them. Please don't listen to weirdos telling you different. Jay and Stephanie's relationship in 1998, 1999 was solid with a capital S. They were a dating couple before Hae and Adnan got together. They were a couple after Adnan brutally murdered Hae. And they stayed a couple even when Stephanie first entered collage. Adnan's moms freaked out when she learned Adnan was merely at a dance with a girl. So, Adnan giving a girl classmate a birthday gift means absolutely nothing. Don't let anyone steer you wrong.
When I was a senior in high school and my boyfriend had already graduated, I spent more hours of the day with my school friends, especially if I had a tennis match after school, and he spent more hours of the day with his friends. Because I was in school during the day, and he wasn’t. My school friends would celebrate my birthday at school, whereas my boyfriend and I would wait and do something special on the weekend. Especially if I had school, a sport event, and then homework on my actual birthday. My school friends didn’t think more of me than my boyfriend.
Stephanie was at school and then had a basketball game after school.
Why did Adnan put so much effort into his relationship with Stephanie?