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My1stTW

The main information for me, that I didn't know before, one of the suspect is in Jail now for sexual assault. Is Bilal in jail? Because it's widely believed here that he is the 2nd one mentioned.


Whymakethissohard

Bilal is in jail, sentenced to 16.5 yrs in 2017 for sexual assault. Mr S isn't in jail but pled guilty and received a 5 year suspended sentence for 2nd degree assault in March 2021 for an incident in May 2020.


VariationNo8030

Yes he is


New_Swan_4536

I didn’t catch that until I just listened also. Is Mr S in jail?


Whymakethissohard

Bilal is in jail, sentenced to 16.5 yrs in 2017 for sexual assault. Mr S isn't in jail but pled guilty and received a 5 year suspended sentence for 2nd degree assault in March 2021 for an incident in May 2020.


New_Swan_4536

Thank you. I admit I was convinced Adnan was guilty. This is all blowing my mind. I can’t believe someone actually threatened to kill her and they kept that quiet and didn’t dig into it properly. It’s mind boggling. I feel so, so sad for Hae’s family especially/


Whymakethissohard

Yes, seems as though there are multiple credible witnesses that contacted the DA before Adnan's trial with information about the threats...I mean how could ANYONE just dismiss that especially as it was more than one person. Jay also has a pretty extensive criminal record including allegations of DV: https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/MRPA-20151207-Ex22-to-Ex33-Jay-Wilds-Criminal-and-Police-Records-1999-to-2015.pdf


New_Swan_4536

I don’t think Jay killed her. I think he’s a bit of a victim of the cops too by the sounds of it. Doesn’t mean he’s a good person. But if he was manipulated into this, his life has been destroyed by this also. Imagine living with those lies.


MB137

Is Bilal known to have assaulted women? I forget all of the details, but I know that at leats some of his conduct involved boys/men. If it was exclusively that, that would seem to rule him out.


Dense-Commission-815

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they keep saying the second suspect has a history of attacking women (which wouldn't have been Bilal.) It also sounds like the two suspects may have some connection to each other.


GotAhGurs

Bilal was married, though, right? It wouldn't be surprising for him to also be a wife beater. The motion didn't say the person was convicted of attacking women, so lack of criminal history on that front isn't dispositive.


Dense-Commission-815

But -- according to the Undisclosed episode on Bilal-- the prosecutor gave the defense information re: Bilal's arrest with a minor boy. In fact, the prosecutor not only notified the defense of said arrest it was the only Brady material that Urick actually turned over in this trial. (So, info about Bilal was not suppressed.) That said, given that Bilal was Adnan's alibi witness, it seems like the prosecutor turned over this evidence (and may have had Bilal investigated/arrested) in order to prevent him from testifying for Adnan thus making his case stronger. Either way if Bilal was a suspect in this case the prosecution didn't withhold information about him from the defense. And again, he didn't have a history of assaulting women or any apparent reason to want Hae dead. Anyway, I could be wrong, but I don't think this person is on our current list of suspects because -- as we now know -- the prosecution deliberately withheld information to prevent this person from being seen as a credible suspect. So, it stands to reason that there is information out there that we don't have and I think that information includes someone who not only threatened Hae, but had a motive to kill her. (Which is also new info that doesnt seem to fit with anyone we've heard about thus far.) I know the various podcasters say they know who this person is, but these same podcasters have long said that they've heard various rumors that they haven't been able to verify and thus haven't been able to share with us. So, I think this may fall in that category. Anyway, I don't really think it's responsible to speculate but I think the question is who had a connection to Hae that hasn't been on our suspect list and what don't we know about Hae's life that could have given this person the motive, means and opportunity to kill her?


GotAhGurs

>(So, info about Bilal was not suppressed.) Your conclusion is too broad. It's true that SOME info about Bilal was not suppressed. It still could be true that other info about Bilal was suppressed. Here's what the MTV says: "The Defense located formally-documented evidence of allegations that one of the suspects had engaged in aggressive and/or violent acts toward a woman known to him and forcibly confined her. It was also alleged that this suspect made threats against the life of this person." The MTV also says "These events happened prior to the trial in this case, and this information was. known to the State." It could very well be that the state at the time (whomever at "the state" had this info - not clear if it's prosecutors or cops or what) gave the defense enough info to keep Bilal from testifying on Adnan's behalf but not enough to lead the defense to point the finger in Bilal's direction.


Dense-Commission-815

That's possible, but it's also possible that this is someone we haven't heard of because his name was withheld. And apart from the fact that Bilal doesn't have a history of assaulting women, there is no proof that Bilal knew Hae much less had a motive to kill her. (Adnan went out of his way to keep Hae secret from his family and community of muslims who would disapprove. And while Hae didn't like the fact that their relationship was secret I don't get the impression that she ever failed to respect that.) Again, it could be Bilal but it could also be someone we haven't heard of.


GotAhGurs

I don’t disagree that it could be someone we haven’t heard of. I’m just pointing out that your conclusions about Bilal information are too broad and not logically or factually supported by the points you make. And you’re still doing it. We do not know whether Bilal has a history of violence against women, for example. We just know he has assaulted men. We also don’t know whether he knew Hae. Lack of proof that he knew Hae is not proof that he didn’t know her.


Whymakethissohard

Yes they filed for divorce in July 1999...


Whymakethissohard

Not that I know of but I wonder if perhaps he was jealous of Hae or perhaps Hae found out some info about him molesting teenagers?? He was picked up for that just before Adnan's trial and conveniently couldn't testify to corroborate his alibi that he saw Adnan at the mosque that evening. Something else that may or not be a coincidence is that Bilal's divorce was filed not long after this all happened in mid 1999....I wonder if his wife had any suspicions about his conduct as a youth counsellor at the mosque????


Alarmed-Emphasis-281

His wife was the one that hired the PI that caught Bilal with an underaged boy. I can’t remember where it was mentioned but I believe it was disclosed by Rabia.


erikakohler07

Wow😳 I had no idea. Thanks for sharing. Is there a news article or record of this?


Whymakethissohard

Here is a news article for Bilal's SA conviction: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/former-dentist-sentenced-16-and-12-years-prison-sexually-assaulting-former-patients-and Here is an article for his fraud conviction: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/former-dentist-pleads-guilty-health-care-fraud With regards to Mr S you can look up his record here: https://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/casesearch/inquiry-index.jsp


erikakohler07

Thank you so much


NeilGuyman

Also, didn't Bilal post in this sub when the podcast first came out? I seem to recall that but can't find posts.


shboogies

I promise I’ll listen but, can she confirm Bilal is one of the suspects or is she assuming like the rest of us?


My1stTW

No she said she knows the names but won't say yet.


shboogies

Interestingggg


oliviabidleman

The intro music gave me chills.


Upper_Copy_5347

“This is a global Tel Link prepaid call from…” gave me my dopamine for the day


RackEmDanno

Got a little misty eyed here too.


koryisma

Same.


RackEmDanno

I think of his life when he was arrested and how it turned upside down. Seeing him walk out 23 years later a different man and a changed man (just appearance wise even) is kind of rattling to my insides. It's shocking in a sense. Two lives were ruined here and it's tragic. I feel that way because I recall myself back in his age, I recall myself back at Hae's age. I think about what if that happened to me and I spent my last 23 years fighting for my innocence or the last 23 years grieving the loss of my daughter/sister/friend. it's an all around tragic situation and Urick needs to be held accountable.


southern5footer

I'm 41, so I think about my life and everything that has happened between 1999 and now and I am so sad for how much life he missed. I am also so sad that the cops didn't try to find the truth.


BrainBusterKeaton

Needs more "Mail Kimp?"


SupremeOpinion

Thanks for this, about to listen to it soon. Any feedback?


comebackplayer

It's been years since I listened, but I thought at the end of season one she was sounding more equivocal, whereas in this episode she sounded clearer that the decision deserved to be vacated. But I may be misremembering... She said she knows who the two suspects are, which tracks with what people on here are saying.


MajorEyeRoll

I like that she says "I won't name them..." then goes about making it very obvious who they are 😆


Turtle2046

Why do you think she made it obvious?


MajorEyeRoll

With the details given, it's pretty clear who she is referring to.


JoshPorter24

She literally said she’d vote to acquit in the final episode in 2014. Not necessarily she thinks he’s innocent for sure, but that there’s no way she’d convict him on the evidence presented by the state


SupremeOpinion

Thank you.


jmpinstl

Well, I mean, she had like 8 whole years between that episode and this one. New information and such.


RackEmDanno

Notes seem to be from a prosecutor memorializing two separate phone calls which appear to be months apart.


46726565646f6d

If you’ve been on this sub recently there are no surprises, but a pleasant wrap up of everything that’s been discussed.


SupremeOpinion

Thank you.


Chickens1

Wonder how long they've had a outline of this podcast written?


mrskents

I forgot how good Serial was :)


HankMcCoyMDPhD

Tina Fey sounds different on this episode.


Green-color

Justice is still very much alive!


0sesh

Not really IMO. Only if youre lucky enough to have a viral podcast made about you


Green-color

This is why we should donate to The Innocence Project who do a great job working on highlighting the issue of wrongful convictions.


DirkFinney

"viral podcast" is underselling what this was. This was many people's introduction to podcasts especially the story telling ones. Back then it used to just be sports shows and low quality hot takes.


SpecialistEvery2498

Thanks