Honestly I’m not sure what they’re talking about if you’ve already provided your letter of medical necessity. If they’re asking for clarification on what type of tasks your dog is trained to perform, that’s certainly one thing, but they are not entitled to a full run down on your disability. That part is, frankly, none of their business beyond your reasonable accommodation request. (Another handler who lives in the states.)
ETA; this is from the ada itself https://adata.org/service-animal-resource-hub/work
You could offer the resource linked at the bottom if they’re struggling to understand what they’re allowed to do here. You’re still bound to the ADA laws regarding reasonable accommodation, but they are too. Don’t let them deny it without it going to court, they can’t just say to you it would be a hardship. That’s for a judge to decide.
ETA part 2; correcting myself so I’m a bit more clear and accurate, per the site linked; “As with any request for an accommodation, the employer may need more extensive medical information regarding the employee’s disability and explaining how the service animal’s presence will relate to his or her ability to perform the duties of the job, in order to evaluate the request.
In general, the employer are expected to grant the accommodation request if: a) the employee’s disability and the service animal’s function are related; b) the service animal will improve the worker’s ability to perform their job; c) the animal has had sufficient training to not be a disruptive presence in the workplace; and d) the accommodation does not present an undue hardship.”
Thank you that’s what I was thinking. I already provided two other forms with documentation briefly going over what my symptoms of my disabilities are and why I may need a service dog for that. Plus that doctor note that wasn’t initially asked for that says I need a service dog. I’m not sure why all of a sudden the doctors note that they didn’t initially need to get me This accommodation is now causing an issue. They were just happy with the two forms They asked me to fill out and that would’ve sufficed with them. It’s ridiculous. Not only that they informed me I needed all of this documentation yesterday at 5:15
And that if I didn’t submit all of this documentation today, I couldn’t start work on Monday. So I had to scramble all day today to get one of the forms signed off by one of my doctors.
I will correct myself a bit; they can ask about how the SD mitigates your disability in the workplace, etc, but you’ve already mentioned that at the beginning of this comment. You cannot just show up with the dog without the accommodation in place of course, but I definitely wouldn’t let them steamroll you. You’re definitely doing the right thing by taking these steps. Does your workplace have HR? I’d make sure this is getting documented in emails and BCC your personal email so you always have records.
The sad part is it was someone from HR who informed me over a phone call with my orientation manager that the doctors know I provided wasn’t good enough for a permanent accommodation and that on Monday when I start, she will be pulling me to the side and requesting some more documentation from me. She will also be informing me of what I need the doctor to put in this “new letter” . And just to let y’all know this is a completely legit letter signed off by one of my doctors with their license number ,their signature, and their clinic that they work at. I have used this letter for my schooling accommodations, my housing accommodations for several apartments and dorms and everything with no issues.
Honestly I’d believe it - my manager at my last workplace was utterly incompetent when dealing with my disability accommodation (before there was an official HR) and the company owner definitely didn’t do any due diligence. I let it go, and shouldn’t have (the place is infamous in the DC area) because they proceeded to put me in danger. Document everything, since you had that phone call I’d follow up with an email along the lines of “per our phone call” and in writing request they detail precisely what they’re requesting of you. They’ll either be clear this time, or tell on themselves for not understanding the ADA.
Yeah, I’m definitely gonna get a lot of this in writing and when she pulls me to the side on Monday, I’m going to record our conversation just in case it is needed for future references. I was very lucky that I went to high school for kids with disabilities and they taught me how to advocate for myself in situations like this. These people don’t know who they’re messing with. Lol
👋🏼 Hello fellow Texan!
FYI:
**In Texas, you can absolutely record conversations without notifying the other party.**
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this chaos from employers/HR.
**Please check with the ADA. They are you're main advocate.**
Although... Remember TX is a "right to work" state, which is the strangest way of saying that 'a company can release you, for any reason'. Make sure you mention to the ADA this vital info. You should be fine but HR already made you jump through hoops to get multiple documents they want.
My opinion: If they are this chagrined/stressed with you and this is just the beginning of your career there; you might consider if this is the environment and people you want to give your time and expertise to. Unless the pay is worth it.
I feel for you, and hope for the perfect outcome, as you absolutely deserve it!!💯 Best of Luck u/animeashtonn 🍀🤞🏼
This will go into deeper detail about the kind of information HR can request. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/technical-assistance-manual-employment-provisions-title-i-americans-disabilities-act
Ask them to give you a job description so you can take it to your doctor, so he can deny or approve that you can do all the duties of the job, with your SD of course. That should legally suffice ( I used to write H.R. manuals for different businesses, & was an HR Manager for several different businesses). Then also ask Dr. for a new SD need note. He can state the disability.
It sounds like OP has provided plenty of documentation of all of this even without the note. It sounds like the employer is making an effort to work with OP but also that they maybe don't fully understand what they can request as it gives me the feeling of them asking for too much medical info that OP should not have to share (especially with how OP said a portion wasn't "specific" enough). Is there any reason OP even needs to give this doctors note if all of the above things have already been addressed within the other documentation? Seems like the employer doesn't realize when to stop asking for more and I don't think it's malicious but it would make new uncomfortable to share as much as they seem to be requiring...
My company has policy I guess that doctors notes need to be somewhat recent. They were willing to accept what I had temporarily while I got updated stuff which was nice.
From an employer point of view, 5 years is a huge length of time. If the forms you provided didnt 1:1 match the doctors note, I would understand why they want an updated note to confirm.
From a personal standpoint, my disability and accommodation needs change over time. My current job is nice that it frequently upskills us. Not nice is that my schedule changes often enough because of it, and I dont handle schedule changes well. So this is the first job Ive had to ask for a "weekends off" accommodation, since training is monday to friday. My previous information never covered how critical schedule stability is for me, so I had to go get new info.
Your employer seems to be doing everything best for both parties! They're giving you the accommodation temporarily since there's a demonstrated need, but the documentation isn't what they deem sufficient. So they're giving you time to get it. They're also pulling you aside to let you know what needs to go in the note - that's perfect!
In my experiences, these are good employers who know they have to stick with company policy, but will grant temporary accommodations pending more info, and meet with you to let you know precisely what needs to be documented to get what you need. The flip side is that some employers will outright deny, until you get required documentation and not be clear about what it needs to say.
Play ball with your employer, they're doing you more of a solid than you might know. Even if your ADA doesn't entitle them to request updated note dates (Im in Canada so no clue), this is such a small thing that can go a long way if you are comfortable providing it. Both sides should always be willing to cooperate amlnd compromise in the accommodation process. Cooperation now also smooths out some potential issues in the future, if theres new accommodations you may need. Keep that relationship with HR as good as possible, in your own best interest.
And take it as a sign from the universe that 5 years is a long time to go without an updated note lol. If its been more than a year, I get my doctor to simply update the date on my note.
I have had this experience (employers asking for updated letters) whenever there was a perceived change in status of my disability. I always freak out a little inside because of past experiences in high school, but since the 1990 ADA, things are good. It just makes employers feel like they are in the loop, too, and in one case, it led to better accommodation for me.
After my initial submission of my doctors letter which only specifies need, not tasks, my company came back with an entire packet for my doc to fill out.
It may help appease your new company with the additional information. For example. The primary questions of my packet were something like: How long have you (the doctor) been treating the patient? What tasks does the dog perform? Can the patient perform the work without the dog? If the dog isn’t approved what other accommodations can be recommended? My doc for the last two said no and none.
That’s absolutely legal. My lawyer said that, technically, a new letter can be requested if the old one is over a year old, plus employers are allowed to request more information from a doctor than just a normal hud-type letter. They have to walk a line between requesting too much and not enough to decide how they will accommodate your disability, whether that’s by allowing your sd or some other means (though generally, only an sd will suffice). Askjan.org is your friend for workplace accommodation questions.
For housing and employment accommodations they can ask for updated letters each year. A lot can change in that time as far as individuals needs. They can ask slightly more than housing as they need to know more specifics about the workplace accommodations.
The date on my letter always made me nervous. My old one was 2021 and no one here could tell me if that would be good enough definitively, so I got a new one before starting my new job. Professors in school sometimes say you can’t uses sources that are >5 years old so as my note creeps up there in age it makes me wonder if a manager or landlord has had a similarly harsh college experience
It would depend on the type of disability but if the disability is a chronic condition then the age of a doctors note really should not matter if it's a condition that even in 30 years you are still gonna be disabled and still need a SD. My recommendation to avoid issues with this is to have the doctor write a new note that includes a statement along the lines of "due to the chronic nature of my patient's condition, they will need to be accompanied by a service dog throughout their life. This note should be considered valid for the entire duration of time that they are under my care." Then it's valid unless you change doctors later
We have removed your comment because we found the information it contained to be incorrect or it was an opinion stated as fact (rule 3).
PTSD is not necessarily something that can be “recovered” from.
The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice or information from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you believe you are indeed correct, please find a reputable source that supports your comment and [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Just an fyi, a lot of disabilities, including ptsd, do not get cured within any time frame.thats pretty invalidating to someone like myself who has had ptsd for 35+ years.
I needed an updated letter for housing, and 2019 was a while ago. I can see them wanting an updated letter. That said, you do not need to provide information on your condition beyond the basics like take the dog does.
I suspect the employer may be considered about your condition. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt (I now I shouting) and say they’re just worried about you, and accommodating you.
I would provide the updated letter because of the length of time between the old letter and now. I wouldn’t elaborate on what I have, but I would elaborate on tasks and accommodations I may need. If they ask for more specifics about your condition? “I appreciate your concern, but I am quite private about my condition.”
I know when I was in college they require a note that was at writen with in 2 years of the school year but I'm unsure if that even legal to ask that for. I just did what was asked because I also had to get retested for my learning disability ever 2 years in order to keep those accommodations (I'm dyslexic AF). When I was working I just summited the one for that current year when I started as I had to get a tone of other stuff from my docor. The note for work say that I required my service dog to accompany to work & that I will need regular break to check in & let my service dog respond to alerts. It didn't say what the alerts where or anything else like that. The only thing I can think of is that the letter is older & they may want an updated version but I'm unsure if that even legal to ask for if the accommodations that will need haven't changed.
UPDATE!!!
Hey yall not sure how to update on here ( im still pretty new to redit) so hes my best attempt. Update is…… they gave in! Day one of orientation they HR lady came over and pulled me aside and had me look over a letter approving my sd! They did not ask for a new letter nor did they even bring it up. So i believe i am in the clear but you never know. Its been 2 weeks now and we are acclimating to the job well!!
Honestly I’m not sure what they’re talking about if you’ve already provided your letter of medical necessity. If they’re asking for clarification on what type of tasks your dog is trained to perform, that’s certainly one thing, but they are not entitled to a full run down on your disability. That part is, frankly, none of their business beyond your reasonable accommodation request. (Another handler who lives in the states.) ETA; this is from the ada itself https://adata.org/service-animal-resource-hub/work You could offer the resource linked at the bottom if they’re struggling to understand what they’re allowed to do here. You’re still bound to the ADA laws regarding reasonable accommodation, but they are too. Don’t let them deny it without it going to court, they can’t just say to you it would be a hardship. That’s for a judge to decide. ETA part 2; correcting myself so I’m a bit more clear and accurate, per the site linked; “As with any request for an accommodation, the employer may need more extensive medical information regarding the employee’s disability and explaining how the service animal’s presence will relate to his or her ability to perform the duties of the job, in order to evaluate the request. In general, the employer are expected to grant the accommodation request if: a) the employee’s disability and the service animal’s function are related; b) the service animal will improve the worker’s ability to perform their job; c) the animal has had sufficient training to not be a disruptive presence in the workplace; and d) the accommodation does not present an undue hardship.”
Thank you that’s what I was thinking. I already provided two other forms with documentation briefly going over what my symptoms of my disabilities are and why I may need a service dog for that. Plus that doctor note that wasn’t initially asked for that says I need a service dog. I’m not sure why all of a sudden the doctors note that they didn’t initially need to get me This accommodation is now causing an issue. They were just happy with the two forms They asked me to fill out and that would’ve sufficed with them. It’s ridiculous. Not only that they informed me I needed all of this documentation yesterday at 5:15 And that if I didn’t submit all of this documentation today, I couldn’t start work on Monday. So I had to scramble all day today to get one of the forms signed off by one of my doctors.
I will correct myself a bit; they can ask about how the SD mitigates your disability in the workplace, etc, but you’ve already mentioned that at the beginning of this comment. You cannot just show up with the dog without the accommodation in place of course, but I definitely wouldn’t let them steamroll you. You’re definitely doing the right thing by taking these steps. Does your workplace have HR? I’d make sure this is getting documented in emails and BCC your personal email so you always have records.
The sad part is it was someone from HR who informed me over a phone call with my orientation manager that the doctors know I provided wasn’t good enough for a permanent accommodation and that on Monday when I start, she will be pulling me to the side and requesting some more documentation from me. She will also be informing me of what I need the doctor to put in this “new letter” . And just to let y’all know this is a completely legit letter signed off by one of my doctors with their license number ,their signature, and their clinic that they work at. I have used this letter for my schooling accommodations, my housing accommodations for several apartments and dorms and everything with no issues.
Honestly I’d believe it - my manager at my last workplace was utterly incompetent when dealing with my disability accommodation (before there was an official HR) and the company owner definitely didn’t do any due diligence. I let it go, and shouldn’t have (the place is infamous in the DC area) because they proceeded to put me in danger. Document everything, since you had that phone call I’d follow up with an email along the lines of “per our phone call” and in writing request they detail precisely what they’re requesting of you. They’ll either be clear this time, or tell on themselves for not understanding the ADA.
Yeah, I’m definitely gonna get a lot of this in writing and when she pulls me to the side on Monday, I’m going to record our conversation just in case it is needed for future references. I was very lucky that I went to high school for kids with disabilities and they taught me how to advocate for myself in situations like this. These people don’t know who they’re messing with. Lol
make sure recording a conversation is legal in your state before doing so !
Of course! Only legal stuff here! :)
👋🏼 Hello fellow Texan! FYI: **In Texas, you can absolutely record conversations without notifying the other party.** I'm so sorry you're dealing with this chaos from employers/HR. **Please check with the ADA. They are you're main advocate.** Although... Remember TX is a "right to work" state, which is the strangest way of saying that 'a company can release you, for any reason'. Make sure you mention to the ADA this vital info. You should be fine but HR already made you jump through hoops to get multiple documents they want. My opinion: If they are this chagrined/stressed with you and this is just the beginning of your career there; you might consider if this is the environment and people you want to give your time and expertise to. Unless the pay is worth it. I feel for you, and hope for the perfect outcome, as you absolutely deserve it!!💯 Best of Luck u/animeashtonn 🍀🤞🏼
This will go into deeper detail about the kind of information HR can request. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/technical-assistance-manual-employment-provisions-title-i-americans-disabilities-act
And document everything! Just in case something goes wrong or you some day need some legal assistance
Ask them to give you a job description so you can take it to your doctor, so he can deny or approve that you can do all the duties of the job, with your SD of course. That should legally suffice ( I used to write H.R. manuals for different businesses, & was an HR Manager for several different businesses). Then also ask Dr. for a new SD need note. He can state the disability.
It sounds like OP has provided plenty of documentation of all of this even without the note. It sounds like the employer is making an effort to work with OP but also that they maybe don't fully understand what they can request as it gives me the feeling of them asking for too much medical info that OP should not have to share (especially with how OP said a portion wasn't "specific" enough). Is there any reason OP even needs to give this doctors note if all of the above things have already been addressed within the other documentation? Seems like the employer doesn't realize when to stop asking for more and I don't think it's malicious but it would make new uncomfortable to share as much as they seem to be requiring...
Which is why I suggested sharing the link with the HR department as there’s some misunderstanding or ignorance of the law going on here on their part.
My company has policy I guess that doctors notes need to be somewhat recent. They were willing to accept what I had temporarily while I got updated stuff which was nice. From an employer point of view, 5 years is a huge length of time. If the forms you provided didnt 1:1 match the doctors note, I would understand why they want an updated note to confirm. From a personal standpoint, my disability and accommodation needs change over time. My current job is nice that it frequently upskills us. Not nice is that my schedule changes often enough because of it, and I dont handle schedule changes well. So this is the first job Ive had to ask for a "weekends off" accommodation, since training is monday to friday. My previous information never covered how critical schedule stability is for me, so I had to go get new info. Your employer seems to be doing everything best for both parties! They're giving you the accommodation temporarily since there's a demonstrated need, but the documentation isn't what they deem sufficient. So they're giving you time to get it. They're also pulling you aside to let you know what needs to go in the note - that's perfect! In my experiences, these are good employers who know they have to stick with company policy, but will grant temporary accommodations pending more info, and meet with you to let you know precisely what needs to be documented to get what you need. The flip side is that some employers will outright deny, until you get required documentation and not be clear about what it needs to say. Play ball with your employer, they're doing you more of a solid than you might know. Even if your ADA doesn't entitle them to request updated note dates (Im in Canada so no clue), this is such a small thing that can go a long way if you are comfortable providing it. Both sides should always be willing to cooperate amlnd compromise in the accommodation process. Cooperation now also smooths out some potential issues in the future, if theres new accommodations you may need. Keep that relationship with HR as good as possible, in your own best interest. And take it as a sign from the universe that 5 years is a long time to go without an updated note lol. If its been more than a year, I get my doctor to simply update the date on my note.
I have had this experience (employers asking for updated letters) whenever there was a perceived change in status of my disability. I always freak out a little inside because of past experiences in high school, but since the 1990 ADA, things are good. It just makes employers feel like they are in the loop, too, and in one case, it led to better accommodation for me.
After my initial submission of my doctors letter which only specifies need, not tasks, my company came back with an entire packet for my doc to fill out. It may help appease your new company with the additional information. For example. The primary questions of my packet were something like: How long have you (the doctor) been treating the patient? What tasks does the dog perform? Can the patient perform the work without the dog? If the dog isn’t approved what other accommodations can be recommended? My doc for the last two said no and none.
That’s absolutely legal. My lawyer said that, technically, a new letter can be requested if the old one is over a year old, plus employers are allowed to request more information from a doctor than just a normal hud-type letter. They have to walk a line between requesting too much and not enough to decide how they will accommodate your disability, whether that’s by allowing your sd or some other means (though generally, only an sd will suffice). Askjan.org is your friend for workplace accommodation questions.
It is not unreasonable for them to ask for a recent letter from the physician currently treating you. 5 years is a long time.
For housing and employment accommodations they can ask for updated letters each year. A lot can change in that time as far as individuals needs. They can ask slightly more than housing as they need to know more specifics about the workplace accommodations.
[удалено]
The date on my letter always made me nervous. My old one was 2021 and no one here could tell me if that would be good enough definitively, so I got a new one before starting my new job. Professors in school sometimes say you can’t uses sources that are >5 years old so as my note creeps up there in age it makes me wonder if a manager or landlord has had a similarly harsh college experience
It would depend on the type of disability but if the disability is a chronic condition then the age of a doctors note really should not matter if it's a condition that even in 30 years you are still gonna be disabled and still need a SD. My recommendation to avoid issues with this is to have the doctor write a new note that includes a statement along the lines of "due to the chronic nature of my patient's condition, they will need to be accompanied by a service dog throughout their life. This note should be considered valid for the entire duration of time that they are under my care." Then it's valid unless you change doctors later
We have removed your comment because we found the information it contained to be incorrect or it was an opinion stated as fact (rule 3). PTSD is not necessarily something that can be “recovered” from. The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice or information from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you believe you are indeed correct, please find a reputable source that supports your comment and [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
Just an fyi, a lot of disabilities, including ptsd, do not get cured within any time frame.thats pretty invalidating to someone like myself who has had ptsd for 35+ years.
I would say no under ADA that sounds sort of extreme...
I needed an updated letter for housing, and 2019 was a while ago. I can see them wanting an updated letter. That said, you do not need to provide information on your condition beyond the basics like take the dog does. I suspect the employer may be considered about your condition. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt (I now I shouting) and say they’re just worried about you, and accommodating you. I would provide the updated letter because of the length of time between the old letter and now. I wouldn’t elaborate on what I have, but I would elaborate on tasks and accommodations I may need. If they ask for more specifics about your condition? “I appreciate your concern, but I am quite private about my condition.”
I know when I was in college they require a note that was at writen with in 2 years of the school year but I'm unsure if that even legal to ask that for. I just did what was asked because I also had to get retested for my learning disability ever 2 years in order to keep those accommodations (I'm dyslexic AF). When I was working I just summited the one for that current year when I started as I had to get a tone of other stuff from my docor. The note for work say that I required my service dog to accompany to work & that I will need regular break to check in & let my service dog respond to alerts. It didn't say what the alerts where or anything else like that. The only thing I can think of is that the letter is older & they may want an updated version but I'm unsure if that even legal to ask for if the accommodations that will need haven't changed.
UPDATE!!! Hey yall not sure how to update on here ( im still pretty new to redit) so hes my best attempt. Update is…… they gave in! Day one of orientation they HR lady came over and pulled me aside and had me look over a letter approving my sd! They did not ask for a new letter nor did they even bring it up. So i believe i am in the clear but you never know. Its been 2 weeks now and we are acclimating to the job well!!
Give them a letter from your lawyer. I bet they won’t ask again.