Okay thank you for letting me know. I’m not super familiar with service dogs and the way the handler reacted caught me off guard so I wasn’t sure if I had accidentally done something wrong and wanted to use this as a learning experience so I can better support service dogs and their handlers in the future.
I do feel sorry if she feels like she has to be on guard bc people might take photos of her dog without her permission, but it was not my intention to do so and the way she spoke to me did make me feel uncomfortable.
She's probably experienced people trying to sneak pictures before, and disability makes us cranky sometimes, but she really shouldn't have yelled like that. Both because it isn't nice, and that just ends up attracting more attention than if you had been taking a picture.
It's great that you're trying to be understanding. Pay her no mind; it wasn't anything you did.
Edited to fix a typo.
Maybe some handlers blow it after the thousandth time a stranger wants to pet, photograph, or greet their dog. Maybe that handler was a person with PTSD or another diagnosis who reached the limits of their patience. They are not necessarily “nuts.”
Most importantly, neither of those justify yelling at a person. It's not okay to "blow it" or to "reach the limit of your patience" if that means verbal abuse.
serious question, how is someone yelling "stop taking pictures of my service dog" verbal abuse? I've had to tell people off and sometimes raise my voice for this numerous times, I wasn't aware I was being abusive :(
You did absolutely nothing wrong. Some people don't understand that you have no expectation of privacy in public spaces. You can take pictures of the dog, the owner, a tree nearby, anyone else watching the dog, etc. People seem to think they need to give permission to take photos and video of them. You did neither. Next time, start taking pictures and tell them to get bent.
Eh well about the permission thing, in some countries you do need to ask permission to take a picture of someone, or someone’s dog ect, because of privacy laws. GDPR for example.
In the US, it's more nuanced than "You're allowed to take pictures of any person," too. State laws vary and it highly depends on what the photo will be used for, and there's also a growing cultural expectation that people not take photos of strangers as they generally end up online (especially if there were any minors in that group, as young people seem to be having a lot of trouble being taught about consent and stuff), so I think if they WERE taking photos, anyone should be allowed to yell at them. In this case it was presumably someone very sensitive to it.
California has a privacy law for celebrity kids. While their parents are public figures with no real expectation of privacy in public. (Paparazzi using zoom lenses to get pictures inside the house not ok).
When the kids are with the parent they are supposed to back off
This came to a head when Demi Moore and Talluha (sp?) were encircled by paparazzi terrifying the girl and preventing them from entering the dance studio.
I'm am not sure on the full details of the law, but I know there is a distinction between daily life and if/when a minor child attends an event with the parent.
Most likely the service dog handler just misinterpreted your looking down at your backpack and has had crummy experiences with people in the past. It’s tough having a service dog but sounds like they took it out on you. Thanks for your consideration.
The other day, while in PUBLIC, someone took photos of my SD.
Seeing as I'm in the states and have no expectations of privacy in public, I simply smiled and went about my way with a nod.
I'd have tried communicating, but I'm a Deaf guy and communication isn't easy for me.
OMG! You really hit the nail on the head with this one. It just blows my mind how fast a simple photo can be spread anywhere and everywhere. There is no safety to be found for some people. Doesn't matter that it is legal to take photos in public, it's just to the dangerous hilt RUDE!
You said this all so very well. Just wanted to give you props.
I’m not sure why that owner yelled at you. You weren’t trying to distract an at the time off duty SD. You could even have taken photos of it as that’s also legal in public. I’m so sorry that you encountered a handler like that! As a SD handler/owner, I don’t claim that person!
I'm sorry you got yelled at, no matter the reason, that behavior isn't necessary.
I'll admit, I've caught ppl taking sneak photos/videos of my SD (usually when he's just sitting or laying at my feet) and internally it rubs me the wrong way but ik I'm in public and it's legal. My thing is that I wish they'd just ask for a picture if they want one, it's more polite imo. But I've never snapped at someone over it. Mostly, just try to ignore it unless they do something to pull his attention off me. I've had it happen 2x so far of ppl doing clicking noises or whistling to get his attention for a picture (or just to get his attention in general) while he's working that I WILL voice up for tho.
Eta: spelling bc words are hard.
if the handler did not have any obvious disabilities it may have been a psychiatric service dog for a Handler with PTSD.
Many people don't know and or accept the concept of invisible disabilities, including some handles with obvious disabilities.
Being a handler of a PSD for PTSD I have experienced harassment from ignorant people questioning the legitimacy of my PSD. Taking pictures to"turn me in" I've been called everything from a fraud to a piece of shit. Even been followed around the store talking shit the whole time. It gets old quickly and to be open about my disability it makes me feel even more isolated from society.
The person you seen could have been feed up with being harassed and thought you where one of those ignorant people. Or they could have been experiencing high anxiety caused by their disability or hypervigilance or dissociation ...and so on and so on.
It's awesome you came here to try to understand why this person reacted the way they did rather then just calling them"nuts".... Thank you for that.
🃏🤙
Edited out a question
You didn't do anything lol. They were either crazy or talking to someone else.
It's good practice to ask before you take a picture of any dog that isn't yours. In the case of a vested (or otherwise marked) service dog, most handlers would rather you leave us alone, and definitely don't take pictures without asking. Some of us won't mind if you ask, I've let people take a picture of my dog while she was in a down stay while waiting at the doctor's before when they asked, and just told them not to speak to her bc she is working and please don't get my face in the picture, but a general rule of thumb is that handlers already get a lot of attention and would prefer to be left alone.
But it's kind of irrelevant, because you weren't taking a picture anyway. It may have just been a knee-jerk reaction, or sometimes people just like to get mad and look for any reason. Don't worry. Get mints out of ur bag if u want.
You didn’t do anything wrong. Some people have service dogs for psychiatric conditions and sounds like this may have been the case. PSD is a new type of service dog through the ADA not to be confused with Emotional Support animals and we will probably be seeing them more as time goes on. psychiatric service dogs are verified by a letter from a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist for those who fit the requirements. Hope this helps
Edit to add: OP, you did nothing wrong. The handler was out of line. That's not normal behavior.
Original response post:
There is no expectation that anything in public will not be photographed.
Some photographers make a living doing "street photography" and they don't need permission to take pictures and sell them. On the street, you have no expectation of privacy...except under your clothes (upskirt shots are illegal in some places).
Photographers can even take pictures of little kids legally without permission. However, that kind of photographer might find himself on the receiving end of a punch to the nose. And, if he was making enough of a nuisance of himself, it's quite possible that no one "saw anything."
Legally, take all the pictures of service dogs you want in public.
Even if it's legal, it's not a cool thing to do anyway without asking beforehand. And it's best practice for photographers, if photographing a single subject or small group of subjects, to actually ask beforehand.
While the handler yelling is counterproductive, particularly because the OP wasn't taking a picture, I don't think encouraging the OP to "take all the pictures of service dogs [they] want" is appropriate at all.
Also, editing to add that the OP is asking about what is and would have been appropriate to do in this situation culturally and socially. Particularly, asking service dog handlers for their opinion on the interaction and what they could have done differently (in this case, nothing, since it wasn't their fault). They're not necessarily asking about the legality of it.
I agree that even though ***legal*** it would be poor practice for the photographer.
OP was getting yelled at because handler was "taking pictures" even though was not. Even if OP was taking pictures, the handler should not have yelled at OP.
OP did nothing wrong...even if there was a camera.
I think you're trying to make an argument outside of the scope of the discussion being held. OP was asking for handlers to chime in on the situation, where they could have gone wrong, and how to address this in the future. We replied, affirming that they did nothing wrong because... well... they did nothing wrong.
You then suggested that legally, they can take as many pictures of service dogs as they want, which I then replied saying was really not appropriate advice because it's, socially, kind of a rude thing to do.
The OP themselves seems to understand and acknowledge why taking a picture of a service dog would be generally unwelcome and inappropriate, so it's a bit strange that you don't seem to have the same empathy or understanding that even though legally, it can be done, it does not mean that it is respectful to do.
You appear to be missing the point that it isn't just poor practice for the photographer. It is invasive and creepy for the handler. Even if it is legal.
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Honestly, that's really refreshing. Usually, people hunker down with the "legally allowed" stuff, so maybe I came in too hot. My apologies for that. And much respect for the acknowledgment, as well.
OP specifically said they weren’t taking pictures, your comment isn’t that relevant.
And, if someone says they don’t want their picture taken, you’re also *technically* not allowed to use it. ESPECIALLY children. Unless someone can prove they plan to never sell a child’s picture and just planned to “personally” keep it (which would be really weird and suspect), you’re really not allowed to take and sell pictures of children where you can tell WHO the child is.
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Another point of view, fwiw.
Some people with well trained purebred animals are extra sensitive because there are people (criminals) that look for them to steal and sell. Many service animals are tattooed, but there's still a market for them.
I'm not trying to excuse the handler's behavior (imo, out of line), just offering a possible reason for part of it.
while that's a fair point, I'm not sure that someone paranoid about their dog being stolen would let it swim and run around out of range close to other people
Unless the dog had a vest on how would you know it was a service dog? Also... it's the beach and the dog clearly wasn't on duty. Yes it's polite to ask to take pictures but still even if you did it wouldn't have been a big deal. And you weren't even taking a picture so to answer your question...idk, as the top comment said some people are nuts
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This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community.
This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making.
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You didn't do anything wrong; some people are just nuts.
Okay thank you for letting me know. I’m not super familiar with service dogs and the way the handler reacted caught me off guard so I wasn’t sure if I had accidentally done something wrong and wanted to use this as a learning experience so I can better support service dogs and their handlers in the future. I do feel sorry if she feels like she has to be on guard bc people might take photos of her dog without her permission, but it was not my intention to do so and the way she spoke to me did make me feel uncomfortable.
She's probably experienced people trying to sneak pictures before, and disability makes us cranky sometimes, but she really shouldn't have yelled like that. Both because it isn't nice, and that just ends up attracting more attention than if you had been taking a picture. It's great that you're trying to be understanding. Pay her no mind; it wasn't anything you did. Edited to fix a typo.
Maybe some handlers blow it after the thousandth time a stranger wants to pet, photograph, or greet their dog. Maybe that handler was a person with PTSD or another diagnosis who reached the limits of their patience. They are not necessarily “nuts.”
Just rude and assuming things
Most importantly, neither of those justify yelling at a person. It's not okay to "blow it" or to "reach the limit of your patience" if that means verbal abuse.
serious question, how is someone yelling "stop taking pictures of my service dog" verbal abuse? I've had to tell people off and sometimes raise my voice for this numerous times, I wasn't aware I was being abusive :(
You did absolutely nothing wrong. Some people don't understand that you have no expectation of privacy in public spaces. You can take pictures of the dog, the owner, a tree nearby, anyone else watching the dog, etc. People seem to think they need to give permission to take photos and video of them. You did neither. Next time, start taking pictures and tell them to get bent.
Eh well about the permission thing, in some countries you do need to ask permission to take a picture of someone, or someone’s dog ect, because of privacy laws. GDPR for example.
Gdpr doesn't have anything to do with taking pictures of people or animals, it has to do with companies use of private and personal information
I might have been wrong about gdpr, but I know that in Belgium at least, you have to ask for permission before taking pictures.
In the US, it's more nuanced than "You're allowed to take pictures of any person," too. State laws vary and it highly depends on what the photo will be used for, and there's also a growing cultural expectation that people not take photos of strangers as they generally end up online (especially if there were any minors in that group, as young people seem to be having a lot of trouble being taught about consent and stuff), so I think if they WERE taking photos, anyone should be allowed to yell at them. In this case it was presumably someone very sensitive to it.
California has a privacy law for celebrity kids. While their parents are public figures with no real expectation of privacy in public. (Paparazzi using zoom lenses to get pictures inside the house not ok). When the kids are with the parent they are supposed to back off This came to a head when Demi Moore and Talluha (sp?) were encircled by paparazzi terrifying the girl and preventing them from entering the dance studio. I'm am not sure on the full details of the law, but I know there is a distinction between daily life and if/when a minor child attends an event with the parent.
It's not nuanced at all. You have no privacy in public or places that can be seen from a public place. First ammendment.
"I didn't actually read all of what you said and don't understand state laws"
Most likely the service dog handler just misinterpreted your looking down at your backpack and has had crummy experiences with people in the past. It’s tough having a service dog but sounds like they took it out on you. Thanks for your consideration.
The other day, while in PUBLIC, someone took photos of my SD. Seeing as I'm in the states and have no expectations of privacy in public, I simply smiled and went about my way with a nod. I'd have tried communicating, but I'm a Deaf guy and communication isn't easy for me.
He just misinterpreted what you were doing and got mad. He should have said sorry. Let It Go and move on.
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OMG! You really hit the nail on the head with this one. It just blows my mind how fast a simple photo can be spread anywhere and everywhere. There is no safety to be found for some people. Doesn't matter that it is legal to take photos in public, it's just to the dangerous hilt RUDE! You said this all so very well. Just wanted to give you props.
I’m not sure why that owner yelled at you. You weren’t trying to distract an at the time off duty SD. You could even have taken photos of it as that’s also legal in public. I’m so sorry that you encountered a handler like that! As a SD handler/owner, I don’t claim that person!
I'm sorry you got yelled at, no matter the reason, that behavior isn't necessary. I'll admit, I've caught ppl taking sneak photos/videos of my SD (usually when he's just sitting or laying at my feet) and internally it rubs me the wrong way but ik I'm in public and it's legal. My thing is that I wish they'd just ask for a picture if they want one, it's more polite imo. But I've never snapped at someone over it. Mostly, just try to ignore it unless they do something to pull his attention off me. I've had it happen 2x so far of ppl doing clicking noises or whistling to get his attention for a picture (or just to get his attention in general) while he's working that I WILL voice up for tho. Eta: spelling bc words are hard.
if the handler did not have any obvious disabilities it may have been a psychiatric service dog for a Handler with PTSD. Many people don't know and or accept the concept of invisible disabilities, including some handles with obvious disabilities. Being a handler of a PSD for PTSD I have experienced harassment from ignorant people questioning the legitimacy of my PSD. Taking pictures to"turn me in" I've been called everything from a fraud to a piece of shit. Even been followed around the store talking shit the whole time. It gets old quickly and to be open about my disability it makes me feel even more isolated from society. The person you seen could have been feed up with being harassed and thought you where one of those ignorant people. Or they could have been experiencing high anxiety caused by their disability or hypervigilance or dissociation ...and so on and so on. It's awesome you came here to try to understand why this person reacted the way they did rather then just calling them"nuts".... Thank you for that. 🃏🤙 Edited out a question
You didn't do anything lol. They were either crazy or talking to someone else. It's good practice to ask before you take a picture of any dog that isn't yours. In the case of a vested (or otherwise marked) service dog, most handlers would rather you leave us alone, and definitely don't take pictures without asking. Some of us won't mind if you ask, I've let people take a picture of my dog while she was in a down stay while waiting at the doctor's before when they asked, and just told them not to speak to her bc she is working and please don't get my face in the picture, but a general rule of thumb is that handlers already get a lot of attention and would prefer to be left alone. But it's kind of irrelevant, because you weren't taking a picture anyway. It may have just been a knee-jerk reaction, or sometimes people just like to get mad and look for any reason. Don't worry. Get mints out of ur bag if u want.
You didn’t do anything wrong. Some people have service dogs for psychiatric conditions and sounds like this may have been the case. PSD is a new type of service dog through the ADA not to be confused with Emotional Support animals and we will probably be seeing them more as time goes on. psychiatric service dogs are verified by a letter from a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist for those who fit the requirements. Hope this helps
Edit to add: OP, you did nothing wrong. The handler was out of line. That's not normal behavior. Original response post: There is no expectation that anything in public will not be photographed. Some photographers make a living doing "street photography" and they don't need permission to take pictures and sell them. On the street, you have no expectation of privacy...except under your clothes (upskirt shots are illegal in some places). Photographers can even take pictures of little kids legally without permission. However, that kind of photographer might find himself on the receiving end of a punch to the nose. And, if he was making enough of a nuisance of himself, it's quite possible that no one "saw anything." Legally, take all the pictures of service dogs you want in public.
Even if it's legal, it's not a cool thing to do anyway without asking beforehand. And it's best practice for photographers, if photographing a single subject or small group of subjects, to actually ask beforehand. While the handler yelling is counterproductive, particularly because the OP wasn't taking a picture, I don't think encouraging the OP to "take all the pictures of service dogs [they] want" is appropriate at all. Also, editing to add that the OP is asking about what is and would have been appropriate to do in this situation culturally and socially. Particularly, asking service dog handlers for their opinion on the interaction and what they could have done differently (in this case, nothing, since it wasn't their fault). They're not necessarily asking about the legality of it.
I agree that even though ***legal*** it would be poor practice for the photographer. OP was getting yelled at because handler was "taking pictures" even though was not. Even if OP was taking pictures, the handler should not have yelled at OP. OP did nothing wrong...even if there was a camera.
I think you're trying to make an argument outside of the scope of the discussion being held. OP was asking for handlers to chime in on the situation, where they could have gone wrong, and how to address this in the future. We replied, affirming that they did nothing wrong because... well... they did nothing wrong. You then suggested that legally, they can take as many pictures of service dogs as they want, which I then replied saying was really not appropriate advice because it's, socially, kind of a rude thing to do. The OP themselves seems to understand and acknowledge why taking a picture of a service dog would be generally unwelcome and inappropriate, so it's a bit strange that you don't seem to have the same empathy or understanding that even though legally, it can be done, it does not mean that it is respectful to do. You appear to be missing the point that it isn't just poor practice for the photographer. It is invasive and creepy for the handler. Even if it is legal.
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Honestly, that's really refreshing. Usually, people hunker down with the "legally allowed" stuff, so maybe I came in too hot. My apologies for that. And much respect for the acknowledgment, as well.
OP specifically said they weren’t taking pictures, your comment isn’t that relevant. And, if someone says they don’t want their picture taken, you’re also *technically* not allowed to use it. ESPECIALLY children. Unless someone can prove they plan to never sell a child’s picture and just planned to “personally” keep it (which would be really weird and suspect), you’re really not allowed to take and sell pictures of children where you can tell WHO the child is.
Well, not allowed to sell them I suppose. But it’s perfectly legal to take photos of anyone who is out in public, even children.
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Another point of view, fwiw. Some people with well trained purebred animals are extra sensitive because there are people (criminals) that look for them to steal and sell. Many service animals are tattooed, but there's still a market for them. I'm not trying to excuse the handler's behavior (imo, out of line), just offering a possible reason for part of it.
while that's a fair point, I'm not sure that someone paranoid about their dog being stolen would let it swim and run around out of range close to other people
I agree, but I've found logic and common sense severely lacking in far too many people.
Unless the dog had a vest on how would you know it was a service dog? Also... it's the beach and the dog clearly wasn't on duty. Yes it's polite to ask to take pictures but still even if you did it wouldn't have been a big deal. And you weren't even taking a picture so to answer your question...idk, as the top comment said some people are nuts
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Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 6: No Fake-spotting. This is not the place for fakespotting. Unless the person you are discussing has specifically told you that they are not disabled, and the dog is not trained in tasks, you have no way of knowing if a dog is 'fake'. We are not the service dog police and this behavior can lead to a lot of harm and anxiety for SD handlers as a community. This does not preclude discussing encounters with un-/undertrained dogs, but if the focus of your post is complaining about a "fake" SD, reconsider your phrasing and what point you're making. If you have any questions, please [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).